F2/F3 2021

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pokerman
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by pokerman »

My driver to follow this year in F3 is Victor Martins, the Frenchman is part of the Alpine Academy after winning FR2.0 last year, strange enough one of his teammates is Caio Collett the Brazilian challenged Martins to the tile and is also part of the Alpine Academy.

A good start for the MP Motorsport driver, the team was the 6th best last year and Martins qualified 3rd less than a second off pole and and 3 tenths clear of Collet who qualified 10th.

Two lottery races tomorrow which I probably will watch on record, definitely watch the feature race live on Sunday.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

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Shame for Ido Cohen but at least we didn't lose a frontrunner.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

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That's a new one. Never seen a JCB get stuck in a gravel trap before!
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Re: F2/F3 2021

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How is Smolyar allowed to have the Russian flag and anthem? I thought motorsport was part of the competitive ban?
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Re: F2/F3 2021

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Just lovely to see Correa get a point in race 2. What a comeback.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

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Absolutely. Hopefully a sign of more to come.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

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Tufty wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 10:14 am
Absolutely. Hopefully a sign of more to come.
He was a little off the pace today, although still faster than a number of them. I imagine his fitness may have been an issue having had 3 races in 2 days.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

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Very likely. Especially as he's never done more than one race in a day at this level before.

One thing I just noticed is the one Prema with 0 points. For all the hype over Leclerc, including Charles saying his little brother is the faster of the two, it was a disappointing weekend for him.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

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Great to see Correa back, I hope the accident hasn’t affected his psychology more than anything.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

So, Lundgaard lost a second place in the first F2 race due an engine failure and as a consequence it is a certain zero points for the second race as well. Smart system for a series that allegedly wants talent- based results.

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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by typaH4okc »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 12:05 am
So, Lundgaard lost a second place in the first F2 race due an engine failure and as a consequence it is a certain zero points for the second race as well. Smart system for a series that allegedly wants talent- based results.
At least he has the feature race. Last year having failure in the first race the whole weekend is gone.

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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by pokerman »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 12:05 am
So, Lundgaard lost a second place in the first F2 race due an engine failure and as a consequence it is a certain zero points for the second race as well. Smart system for a series that allegedly wants talent- based results.
I think the double reverse grids mated to the already cheese tyres and unreliable engines has tipped it for me were I've lost a lot of interest, this goes for F3 as well.

We're supposed to be looking for the next big talents, were does making everything such a lottery succeed in doing that?
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Re: F2/F3 2021

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Colossal oof for that Schwartzman pitstop which drops him down to 5th from 2nd. Pourchaire comes out from his pitstop still in net P1 (on track P2 behind Zhou who is yet to pit).

Armstrong crash brings out the VSC. If a full SC is brought out then Zhou, yet to pit, is in the catbird seat for the win. But no full SC was required. :smug: Pourchaire is on course.

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Re: F2/F3 2021

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3 VSCs in succession was a little farcical.

Vips should have surely got the same penalty as Petecof - Vips actively refused Armstrong a car's width alongside, while it looked like Petecof never knew Daruvala was even there.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by j man »

The TV director was utterly atrocious in the feature race. It seemed like there was actually a fair amount of passing and wheel-to-wheel action involving drivers coming out of the pits and taking a couple of laps to get the tyres up to temperature, yet barely any of it was actually shown.

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Re: F2/F3 2021

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In the British F3 today, Mansell won the race and Ayrton (Simmons) came 13th.

Ayton won yesterday's race.

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Re: F2/F3 2021

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The penalty for Ticktum seems a bit harsh. Yes, he was alongside and there was contact with Pourchaire. But he and Theo only ended up alongside Armstrong after Dan had already committed to the move, and the first car to change line (IE turn into the corner) was Armstrong, who must have known Pourchaire was still there. Granted he may not have been aware of Ticktum, but he still basically drove into them both and Ticktum was basically an innocent bystander in that one. I'm far from Ticktum's biggest fan, I do believe he should have had a lifetime ban for his Silverstone road rage, but this doesn't seem to be his fault.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by Banana Man »

That was harsh on Ticktum. Deledda shouldn’t be allowed on the grid, he’s just useless getting in the leaders way a minute behind the rest of the field.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

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Deledda and 3ish other drivers are a waste of seats. Luckily not front-running ones, but still. F2's price does shut out some potential genuine talent I think, and drivers like Deledda, Samaia and Nissany are embarassments. That's almost 15% of the grid.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

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Fantastic weekend from VIPs. He should be leading the championship without all the technical failures and DSQ in Bahrain.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

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Karen having a right whinge on the radio :lol: :lol:
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Re: F2/F3 2021

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Banana Man wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:53 am
Fantastic weekend from VIPs. He should be leading the championship without all the technical failures and DSQ in Bahrain.
I was just having a look at the points. This weekend has really brought him back into the fight, only 15 off the lead by my calculations. If he repeats this form at Silverstone, he'll control the championship. Honestly my guess is that he'll be put into F1 next year. What I don't know is where, because Tsunoda will surely get another year and Gasly has earned one. Buying a seat somewhere like Williams with the presumed absence of Russell, maybe? There's almost an argument for promoting Vips and (maybe) Lawson to a third Red Bull team. Personally I think they should tie in with Charouz and use Red Bull in Czech, Cerveny Byk :lol:

But honestly, Red Bull do have a problem next year if Vips wins the title. What will they do if there's no seats, send him back to Japan for a year?
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Re: F2/F3 2021

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Tufty wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 10:02 am
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:53 am
Fantastic weekend from VIPs. He should be leading the championship without all the technical failures and DSQ in Bahrain.
I was just having a look at the points. This weekend has really brought him back into the fight, only 15 off the lead by my calculations. If he repeats this form at Silverstone, he'll control the championship. Honestly my guess is that he'll be put into F1 next year. What I don't know is where, because Tsunoda will surely get another year and Gasly has earned one. Buying a seat somewhere like Williams with the presumed absence of Russell, maybe? There's almost an argument for promoting Vips and (maybe) Lawson to a third Red Bull team. Personally I think they should tie in with Charouz and use Red Bull in Czech, Cerveny Byk :lol:

But honestly, Red Bull do have a problem next year if Vips wins the title. What will they do if there's no seats, send him back to Japan for a year?
I'd be very surprised if Vips or Lawson win the championship and AT retain Gasly. What would be the point? The team exists to blood new talent for the senior team. Seems pretty clear they aren't going to promote Gasly again so keeping him on instead of promoting a young driver makes no sense.

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Re: F2/F3 2021

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Have a feeling Gasly may want to move on anyway. Potentially a seat at Alpine or Aston if Alonso or Vettel decide their heart isn’t really in fighting over minor points. Tsunoda you feel will get the obligatory second season.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by mikeyg123 »

Looks like Pourchaire has broken his wrist. No F2 for 6 weeks so he could recover in time.

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Re: F2/F3 2021

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mikeyg123 wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 12:03 pm
Looks like Pourchaire has broken his wrist. No F2 for 6 weeks so he could recover in time.
Ouch, is that what put him out of the race too? I didn't think he had much damage to the car.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

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I've seen an interesting analysis of the new race format, the top scoring drivers in the two sprint races in F2 are the ones that finish 9th and 10th in qualifying, whereas with the fastest qualifying driver he's way back in 9th place, the second best qualifier in 6th place.

The two best qualifiers then make up for lost ground in the feature race, the race that actually rewards you for were you qualify, this sees the fastest qualifying driver with the overall best points, next is tied between the second and tenth best qualifier and in 4th place the 9th best qualifier.

Now what of the 3rd and 4th best qualifiers, we see the 3rd with equal 6th best points and the 4th with the 9th best points, as I suspected a lottery and this is how we find the best/fastest drivers for F1 or maybe just a driver with reasonable speed but with a big dose of luck?
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:37 pm
I've seen an interesting analysis of the new race format, the top scoring drivers in the two sprint races in F2 are the ones that finish 9th and 10th in qualifying, whereas with the fastest qualifying driver he's way back in 9th place, the second best qualifier in 6th place.

The two best qualifiers then make up for lost ground in the feature race, the race that actually rewards you for were you qualify, this sees the fastest qualifying driver with the overall best points, next is tied between the second and tenth best qualifier and in 4th place the 9th best qualifier.

Now what of the 3rd and 4th best qualifiers, we see the 3rd with equal 6th best points and the 4th with the 9th best points, as I suspected a lottery and this is how we find the best/fastest drivers for F1 or maybe just a driver with reasonable speed but with a big dose of luck?
The top 4 in the championship are still in the same order if you use only feature races and tot up those points.

That being said I think that's in spite of the formula rather than because of it. F2 is now a bizarre series. High tyre wear, unreliable cars, safety cars and reverse grid races basically make it impossible to tell who the best performing drivers are. F3 is even worse.

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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:04 pm
pokerman wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:37 pm
I've seen an interesting analysis of the new race format, the top scoring drivers in the two sprint races in F2 are the ones that finish 9th and 10th in qualifying, whereas with the fastest qualifying driver he's way back in 9th place, the second best qualifier in 6th place.

The two best qualifiers then make up for lost ground in the feature race, the race that actually rewards you for were you qualify, this sees the fastest qualifying driver with the overall best points, next is tied between the second and tenth best qualifier and in 4th place the 9th best qualifier.

Now what of the 3rd and 4th best qualifiers, we see the 3rd with equal 6th best points and the 4th with the 9th best points, as I suspected a lottery and this is how we find the best/fastest drivers for F1 or maybe just a driver with reasonable speed but with a big dose of luck?
The top 4 in the championship are still in the same order if you use only feature races and tot up those points.

That being said I think that's in spite of the formula rather than because of it. F2 is now a bizarre series. High tyre wear, unreliable cars, safety cars and reverse grid races basically make it impossible to tell who the best performing drivers are. F3 is even worse.
That's an interesting way to value what's exactly happening, I've listed the top 10, how they've accumulated their points, Feature race + Sprint races, and then were they would be if we only count feature races.

01. Zhou 78 (41+37) 1.
02. Piastri 73 (36+37) 2.
03. Shwartzman 66 (33+33) 3.
04. Vips 63 (29+34) 6.
05. Ticktum 60 (24+36) 8.
06. Pourchaire 55 (33+22) 3.
07. Daruvala 53 (14+39) 10.
08. Lawson 50 (30+20) 5.
09. Drugovich 41 (29+12) 6.
10. Boschung 36 (18+18) 9.

The spread of points between the Feature race and the 2 Sprint races is 50-50, 287 points to 288 points, that's really interesting so the Feature race is still a reasonable weighting, the only driver benefitting from what we make call average qualifying performances is Daruvala and the driver coming a cropper in the sprint racers Drugovich.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by j man »

I think it's too soon to tell, particularly as one of the three rounds we've had so far was at Monaco which is not a fair representation of whether the format works or not and will skew the stats.

So far though I have no problem with the format, and if it meets its stated aim of cutting costs and making F2 more accessible then I am in favour of it. Yes the reverse grids will throw up some unusual podium finishers but when it's all averaged over the course of the season I don't see why the best drivers won't be at the top. I stand by what I wrote previously, which is that the Safety Car and being crashed into will have more influence on the championship than the format. You can add unreliability into that as well.

Lawson and Pourchaire have impressed me the most so far. Lawson in particular has been desperately unlucky.

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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:04 pm

That being said I think that's in spite of the formula rather than because of it. F2 is now a bizarre series. High tyre wear, unreliable cars, safety cars and reverse grid races basically make it impossible to tell who the best performing drivers are. F3 is even worse.
:thumbup:

IMO, it is ideal for average drivers with experience and the financial background to hire one of the engineers who know the right set-up and strategy for the tyres. They won't win the championship this way but they may come in 5th and gain sufficient points for a superlicence so that they can buy themselves into F1. And I guess that's the plan.

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Re: F2/F3 2021

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mikeyg123 wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:04 pm
That being said I think that's in spite of the formula rather than because of it. F2 is now a bizarre series. High tyre wear, unreliable cars, safety cars and reverse grid races basically make it impossible to tell who the best performing drivers are. F3 is even worse.
As much as I enjoy watching F2, I'm afraid the fact that so many more people are watching F2 now is the problem. Now that it has a large audience, they see the need to make it 'entertaining'.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

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Tufty wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:23 am
The penalty for Ticktum seems a bit harsh. Yes, he was alongside and there was contact with Pourchaire. But he and Theo only ended up alongside Armstrong after Dan had already committed to the move, and the first car to change line (IE turn into the corner) was Armstrong, who must have known Pourchaire was still there. Granted he may not have been aware of Ticktum, but he still basically drove into them both and Ticktum was basically an innocent bystander in that one. I'm far from Ticktum's biggest fan, I do believe he should have had a lifetime ban for his Silverstone road rage, but this doesn't seem to be his fault.
Agreed. He was right alongside Pourchaire going into the braking zone and Armstrong was the one who initiated the contact by turning in, from the outside, as if Pourchaire wasn't there. Armstrong should have been the one penalised.
On the other hand, it does make the radio comms entertaining! There must be a highlights reel of Dan's radio somewhere...
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

tootsie323 wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:18 am
Tufty wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:23 am
The penalty for Ticktum seems a bit harsh. Yes, he was alongside and there was contact with Pourchaire. But he and Theo only ended up alongside Armstrong after Dan had already committed to the move, and the first car to change line (IE turn into the corner) was Armstrong, who must have known Pourchaire was still there. Granted he may not have been aware of Ticktum, but he still basically drove into them both and Ticktum was basically an innocent bystander in that one. I'm far from Ticktum's biggest fan, I do believe he should have had a lifetime ban for his Silverstone road rage, but this doesn't seem to be his fault.
Agreed. He was right alongside Pourchaire going into the braking zone and Armstrong was the one who initiated the contact by turning in, from the outside, as if Pourchaire wasn't there. Armstrong should have been the one penalised.
On the other hand, it does make the radio comms entertaining! There must be a highlights reel of Dan's radio somewhere...
I disagree. Armstrong had to make the corner ( there is a wall there), so he had to turn in. Ticktum, on the other hand, was going for a gap that was always going to disappear. He was in no position to succesfully overtake.

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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by Tufty »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:22 pm
tootsie323 wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:18 am
Tufty wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:23 am
The penalty for Ticktum seems a bit harsh. Yes, he was alongside and there was contact with Pourchaire. But he and Theo only ended up alongside Armstrong after Dan had already committed to the move, and the first car to change line (IE turn into the corner) was Armstrong, who must have known Pourchaire was still there. Granted he may not have been aware of Ticktum, but he still basically drove into them both and Ticktum was basically an innocent bystander in that one. I'm far from Ticktum's biggest fan, I do believe he should have had a lifetime ban for his Silverstone road rage, but this doesn't seem to be his fault.
Agreed. He was right alongside Pourchaire going into the braking zone and Armstrong was the one who initiated the contact by turning in, from the outside, as if Pourchaire wasn't there. Armstrong should have been the one penalised.
On the other hand, it does make the radio comms entertaining! There must be a highlights reel of Dan's radio somewhere...
I disagree. Armstrong had to make the corner ( there is a wall there), so he had to turn in. Ticktum, on the other hand, was going for a gap that was always going to disappear. He was in no position to succesfully overtake.
Armstrong was the furthest from the racing line, he should have backed out of it. I realise he was ahead, but the places were lost by the time he turned in. There's nothing more he could have done about that move.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

Tufty wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:14 pm
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:22 pm
tootsie323 wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:18 am
Tufty wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:23 am
The penalty for Ticktum seems a bit harsh. Yes, he was alongside and there was contact with Pourchaire. But he and Theo only ended up alongside Armstrong after Dan had already committed to the move, and the first car to change line (IE turn into the corner) was Armstrong, who must have known Pourchaire was still there. Granted he may not have been aware of Ticktum, but he still basically drove into them both and Ticktum was basically an innocent bystander in that one. I'm far from Ticktum's biggest fan, I do believe he should have had a lifetime ban for his Silverstone road rage, but this doesn't seem to be his fault.
Agreed. He was right alongside Pourchaire going into the braking zone and Armstrong was the one who initiated the contact by turning in, from the outside, as if Pourchaire wasn't there. Armstrong should have been the one penalised.
On the other hand, it does make the radio comms entertaining! There must be a highlights reel of Dan's radio somewhere...
I disagree. Armstrong had to make the corner ( there is a wall there), so he had to turn in. Ticktum, on the other hand, was going for a gap that was always going to disappear. He was in no position to succesfully overtake.
Armstrong was the furthest from the racing line, he should have backed out of it. I realise he was ahead, but the places were lost by the time he turned in. There's nothing more he could have done about that move.
He could not back out - there is a wall there.

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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by Tufty »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:24 pm
Tufty wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:14 pm
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:22 pm
tootsie323 wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:18 am
Tufty wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:23 am
The penalty for Ticktum seems a bit harsh. Yes, he was alongside and there was contact with Pourchaire. But he and Theo only ended up alongside Armstrong after Dan had already committed to the move, and the first car to change line (IE turn into the corner) was Armstrong, who must have known Pourchaire was still there. Granted he may not have been aware of Ticktum, but he still basically drove into them both and Ticktum was basically an innocent bystander in that one. I'm far from Ticktum's biggest fan, I do believe he should have had a lifetime ban for his Silverstone road rage, but this doesn't seem to be his fault.
Agreed. He was right alongside Pourchaire going into the braking zone and Armstrong was the one who initiated the contact by turning in, from the outside, as if Pourchaire wasn't there. Armstrong should have been the one penalised.
On the other hand, it does make the radio comms entertaining! There must be a highlights reel of Dan's radio somewhere...
I disagree. Armstrong had to make the corner ( there is a wall there), so he had to turn in. Ticktum, on the other hand, was going for a gap that was always going to disappear. He was in no position to succesfully overtake.
Armstrong was the furthest from the racing line, he should have backed out of it. I realise he was ahead, but the places were lost by the time he turned in. There's nothing more he could have done about that move.
He could not back out - there is a wall there.
He couldn't slow down? That's what brakes are for.
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

Tufty wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:56 am
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:24 pm
Tufty wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:14 pm
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:22 pm
tootsie323 wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:18 am

Agreed. He was right alongside Pourchaire going into the braking zone and Armstrong was the one who initiated the contact by turning in, from the outside, as if Pourchaire wasn't there. Armstrong should have been the one penalised.
On the other hand, it does make the radio comms entertaining! There must be a highlights reel of Dan's radio somewhere...
I disagree. Armstrong had to make the corner ( there is a wall there), so he had to turn in. Ticktum, on the other hand, was going for a gap that was always going to disappear. He was in no position to succesfully overtake.
Armstrong was the furthest from the racing line, he should have backed out of it. I realise he was ahead, but the places were lost by the time he turned in. There's nothing more he could have done about that move.
He could not back out - there is a wall there.
He couldn't slow down? That's what brakes are for.
He slowed down for the corner, so what do you mean?

If you are on the outside and ahead, all you can do is to take the outside line into the corner. You cannot even see whether there is a third car half-behind on the inside. Unless you suggest, Armstrong should have gone into the run- off area just in case someone might want to attack on the inside. ;-)

If you attack from behind on the inside, you know the outside drivers need to make the corner (especially if there is a wall) and you actually know they are there.

Ticktum was the only one who could have avoided the crash and he recklessly caused it, breaking Pourchaire's wrist.

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Tufty
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Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by Tufty »

Armstrong could see he had one car alongside though and still turned into the apex. If Ticktum wasn't there, there would still have been contact.
Anyone in or near North Wales interested in an RC car racing tournament?

Paolo_Lasardi
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Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 2:04 pm

Re: F2/F3 2021

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

Tufty wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:34 am
Armstrong could see he had one car alongside though and still turned into the apex. If Ticktum wasn't there, there would still have been contact.
I guess no as Pourchaire would have gone more to the inside.

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