Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

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Jezza13
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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by Jezza13 »

Prema wrote:
Jezza13 wrote: if I read your post correctly Prema, we should all just get over it & move on without not even a hint of a friendly inquiry to the source of the outbreak?
As far as that one. The lessons have been already learnt, and are being learnt. Chinese government is providing, and will provide that much information and cooperation as they decide, depending on how that might (or rather might not) hurt them. Surely the friendly questions can be asked.. if they are friendly and scientific ones.

Otherwise, I do not see that China owes anything particularly to the world. It was the virus that hit them in the first place, and they dealt with it the way they did, while the era of globalism did the rest.
Throughout the history, the West has been spreading viruses and nasty diseases to the rest of the world that was there but to be conquered, decimating and even annihilating entire indigenous populations. Particularly the current nations of the US and Australia, apparently being the loudest about China, had been literally founded on such genocides. And China, they had suffer their fair share of similar destruction, some even being deliberately induced by the imperial powers of the West.
Yeah, I mean, the world got to get over it, move on. fairy cakes happens.
Lets see. A particularly virulent virus breaks out in China. Initially they delay in reporting the outbreak to the WHO. They then detain & silence whistleblower medical staff who attempted to alert the world of the severity of the virus & downplay its impact. They then provide false information to the WHO "There is no evidence of human to human transmission"whilst shutting down major cities & quietly instructing Chinese organisations globally to buy up as much masks, gloves, sanitizer etc as they can get their hands on & send it back to China. They then criticize governments like Australia for over-reacting when they get in early & initiate travel bans for people from China while at the very same time practically locking millions of it's own citizens in their houses & slapping up hospitals like they're building blocks, and you honestly believe China really owes the world nothing? Tens of thousands of deaths & millions of livelihoods severely impacted and all you think China owes the world is a shrug of the shoulders and a "sh1t happens and we'll only answer your questions if we want"? I honestly don't think any reasonable person wants China's neck in a noose, not that it'd happen anyway if that was the case, but China should be owning up to it's errors & answering questions no matter if it hurts them or not,

The issue is not really the virus itself but the actions of the Chinese government once it broke out. If China had reported the outbreak quickly & accurately to the WHO then there's a real chance this whole pandemic could've been avoided, or at the very least had it's effects greatly mitigated. So whether Trump or any other national leader has acted in a manner that can be seen as negligent is a matter for the people of those countries to decide, & it may in fact be the case that they have acted that way,but the fact remains the virus began in China and it's the clandestine & perhaps duplicitous nature in which the Chinese government acted that prevented the virus being adequately & promptly confronted on a global level thus allowing it to spread around the world before most governments could formulate an adequate & effective response causing devastation in almost every country on Earth.

I've no idea why you introduced genocide into the argument Prema as it's nothing to do with the topic being discussed but i'll quickly address that point anyway. Yes, the British colonists who settled Australia 230 yrs ago did indeed commit atrocities against the native inhabitants. It's an incredibly dark stain on the history of Australia but unlike some countries it's a stain we don't attempt to hide or remove, either nationally or globally. In the interest of keeping on topic though, i'll not delve into the murky depths of Chinese human rights abuses, massacres & genocide. I'll not go into detail on Tibet, Mao Zedong or more recently the Uighur "re-education" camps, but suffice to say if someone is going to raise the topic of genocide or human rights abuse in western countries, I wouldn't raise it as part of my defense of China that's for sure.

As for your globalization comment, here I agree with you. I'm not a nationalist by any means but i think the world has traveled far too far down the globalization path & the spread of the virus is in part due to this. The one hope I have out of all this is that governments may look to wind back their globalist agendas slightly, encourage more companies to resume manufacturing in their countries and start to look more after the interests of their own people. Not totally of course, globalism certainly has a very large role to play in today's world, but certainly a bit more than they do now.
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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by Prema »

Jezza13 wrote:
Prema wrote:
Jezza13 wrote: if I read your post correctly Prema, we should all just get over it & move on without not even a hint of a friendly inquiry to the source of the outbreak?
As far as that one. The lessons have been already learnt, and are being learnt. Chinese government is providing, and will provide that much information and cooperation as they decide, depending on how that might (or rather might not) hurt them. Surely the friendly questions can be asked.. if they are friendly and scientific ones.

Otherwise, I do not see that China owes anything particularly to the world. It was the virus that hit them in the first place, and they dealt with it the way they did, while the era of globalism did the rest.
Throughout the history, the West has been spreading viruses and nasty diseases to the rest of the world that was there but to be conquered, decimating and even annihilating entire indigenous populations. Particularly the current nations of the US and Australia, apparently being the loudest about China, had been literally founded on such genocides. And China, they had suffer their fair share of similar destruction, some even being deliberately induced by the imperial powers of the West.
Yeah, I mean, the world got to get over it, move on. fairy cakes happens.
Lets see. A particularly virulent virus breaks out in China. Initially they delay in reporting the outbreak to the WHO. They then detain & silence whistleblower medical staff who attempted to alert the world of the severity of the virus & downplay its impact. They then provide false information to the WHO "There is no evidence of human to human transmission"whilst shutting down major cities & quietly instructing Chinese organisations globally to buy up as much masks, gloves, sanitizer etc as they can get their hands on & send it back to China. They then criticize governments like Australia for over-reacting when they get in early & initiate travel bans for people from China while at the very same time practically locking millions of it's own citizens in their houses & slapping up hospitals like they're building blocks, and you honestly believe China really owes the world nothing? Tens of thousands of deaths & millions of livelihoods severely impacted and all you think China owes the world is a shrug of the shoulders and a "sh1t happens and we'll only answer your questions if we want"? I honestly don't think any reasonable person wants China's neck in a noose, not that it'd happen anyway if that was the case, but China should be owning up to it's errors & answering questions no matter if it hurts them or not,

The issue is not really the virus itself but the actions of the Chinese government once it broke out. If China had reported the outbreak quickly & accurately to the WHO then there's a real chance this whole pandemic could've been avoided, or at the very least had it's effects greatly mitigated. So whether Trump or any other national leader has acted in a manner that can be seen as negligent is a matter for the people of those countries to decide, & it may in fact be the case that they have acted that way,but the fact remains the virus began in China and it's the clandestine & perhaps duplicitous nature in which the Chinese government acted that prevented the virus being adequately & promptly confronted on a global level thus allowing it to spread around the world before most governments could formulate an adequate & effective response causing devastation in almost every country on Earth.

I've no idea why you introduced genocide into the argument Prema as it's nothing to do with the topic being discussed but i'll quickly address that point anyway. Yes, the British colonists who settled Australia 230 yrs ago did indeed commit atrocities against the native inhabitants. It's an incredibly dark stain on the history of Australia but unlike some countries it's a stain we don't attempt to hide or remove, either nationally or globally. In the interest of keeping on topic though, i'll not delve into the murky depths of Chinese human rights abuses, massacres & genocide. I'll not go into detail on Tibet, Mao Zedong or more recently the Uighur "re-education" camps, but suffice to say if someone is going to raise the topic of genocide or human rights abuse in western countries, I wouldn't raise it as part of my defense of China that's for sure.

As for your globalization comment, here I agree with you. I'm not a nationalist by any means but i think the world has traveled far too far down the globalization path & the spread of the virus is in part due to this. The one hope I have out of all this is that governments may look to wind back their globalist agendas slightly, encourage more companies to resume manufacturing in their countries and start to look more after the interests of their own people. Not totally of course, globalism certainly has a very large role to play in today's world, but certainly a bit more than they do now.
Well yes, just as I meant. It basically boils down to it. Going after the Chinese government and the CCP, having them to take the responsibility for this disastrous pandemic, in whichever degree that already be. Seriously, and you think that they will respond friendly and submissively lay down before those foreign powers to walk over them and take the advantage? No, they would fight tooth and nail against the enemies (whichever those foreign powers it be).

The world is already screwed up and divided enough at this point. Ganging up now on China would not solve anything nor make the world any better, but rather lead to further divisions, chaos and economical downturns, depending on how hard they would be squeezed.
Let go. Or make some toothless condemnation, if you wish.
People of this world got nothing to win out of such new global confrontation otherwise, but only to lose.

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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by Jezza13 »

Siao7 wrote:
minchy wrote: I other news, I've almost finished my first toilet roll of the lockdown, so only 4 more of my stash to go!!!! Admittedly I'm living by myself, but only 1 roll in 2.5 weeks, did people really think they'd get through 50 rolls or more before all the new rules were laxed?
We are two and got over 3 rolls or so within the last two weeks. People are just dumb for the toilet roll situation, especially the ones having proper fisticuffs over it. But equally, I bet a lot of people went out to stockpile because the first wave (the "silly ones") started stockpiling, so they had to go and get some before it ran out from the shelves.
Or some believe in the old axiom " Crisis brings opportunity". Unfortunately this bloke, like so many other budding entrepreneurs, didn't quite plan for every contingency.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/healt ... 7aa071ca82

I suppose at least he'll have a little extra to bequeath to his kids when he dies.
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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by pokerman »

Jezza13 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
minchy wrote: I other news, I've almost finished my first toilet roll of the lockdown, so only 4 more of my stash to go!!!! Admittedly I'm living by myself, but only 1 roll in 2.5 weeks, did people really think they'd get through 50 rolls or more before all the new rules were laxed?
We are two and got over 3 rolls or so within the last two weeks. People are just dumb for the toilet roll situation, especially the ones having proper fisticuffs over it. But equally, I bet a lot of people went out to stockpile because the first wave (the "silly ones") started stockpiling, so they had to go and get some before it ran out from the shelves.
Or some believe in the old axiom " Crisis brings opportunity". Unfortunately this bloke, like so many other budding entrepreneurs, didn't quite plan for every contingency.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/healt ... 7aa071ca82

I suppose at least he'll have a little extra to bequeath to his kids when he dies.
I think laws need to be introduced now to stop people doing things like this in times of crisis making it basically a criminal offence.

There are 2 people in my household and guess what we haven't had to buy any toilet paper since the lockdown, I personally don't buy it so maybe we just got lucky with the timing of our last purchase but basically we have 2 bathrooms and each bathroom has toilet roll holders which are stocked with 4 rolls each, that will last us weeks.

I went to the supermarket on Wednesday about 2.30pm in part to avoid any long queues, and guess what I could have bought some toilet paper even though it has to be said there wasn't much left, but I had no need to so I didn't.

In times of crisis I guess some people show their true colours and it wouldn't be a pleasant colour.
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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by pokerman »

Jezza13 wrote:
Prema wrote:
Jezza13 wrote: if I read your post correctly Prema, we should all just get over it & move on without not even a hint of a friendly inquiry to the source of the outbreak?
As far as that one. The lessons have been already learnt, and are being learnt. Chinese government is providing, and will provide that much information and cooperation as they decide, depending on how that might (or rather might not) hurt them. Surely the friendly questions can be asked.. if they are friendly and scientific ones.

Otherwise, I do not see that China owes anything particularly to the world. It was the virus that hit them in the first place, and they dealt with it the way they did, while the era of globalism did the rest.
Throughout the history, the West has been spreading viruses and nasty diseases to the rest of the world that was there but to be conquered, decimating and even annihilating entire indigenous populations. Particularly the current nations of the US and Australia, apparently being the loudest about China, had been literally founded on such genocides. And China, they had suffer their fair share of similar destruction, some even being deliberately induced by the imperial powers of the West.
Yeah, I mean, the world got to get over it, move on. fairy cakes happens.
Lets see. A particularly virulent virus breaks out in China. Initially they delay in reporting the outbreak to the WHO. They then detain & silence whistleblower medical staff who attempted to alert the world of the severity of the virus & downplay its impact. They then provide false information to the WHO "There is no evidence of human to human transmission"whilst shutting down major cities & quietly instructing Chinese organisations globally to buy up as much masks, gloves, sanitizer etc as they can get their hands on & send it back to China. They then criticize governments like Australia for over-reacting when they get in early & initiate travel bans for people from China while at the very same time practically locking millions of it's own citizens in their houses & slapping up hospitals like they're building blocks, and you honestly believe China really owes the world nothing? Tens of thousands of deaths & millions of livelihoods severely impacted and all you think China owes the world is a shrug of the shoulders and a "sh1t happens and we'll only answer your questions if we want"? I honestly don't think any reasonable person wants China's neck in a noose, not that it'd happen anyway if that was the case, but China should be owning up to it's errors & answering questions no matter if it hurts them or not,

The issue is not really the virus itself but the actions of the Chinese government once it broke out. If China had reported the outbreak quickly & accurately to the WHO then there's a real chance this whole pandemic could've been avoided, or at the very least had it's effects greatly mitigated. So whether Trump or any other national leader has acted in a manner that can be seen as negligent is a matter for the people of those countries to decide, & it may in fact be the case that they have acted that way,but the fact remains the virus began in China and it's the clandestine & perhaps duplicitous nature in which the Chinese government acted that prevented the virus being adequately & promptly confronted on a global level thus allowing it to spread around the world before most governments could formulate an adequate & effective response causing devastation in almost every country on Earth.

I've no idea why you introduced genocide into the argument Prema as it's nothing to do with the topic being discussed but i'll quickly address that point anyway. Yes, the British colonists who settled Australia 230 yrs ago did indeed commit atrocities against the native inhabitants. It's an incredibly dark stain on the history of Australia but unlike some countries it's a stain we don't attempt to hide or remove, either nationally or globally. In the interest of keeping on topic though, i'll not delve into the murky depths of Chinese human rights abuses, massacres & genocide. I'll not go into detail on Tibet, Mao Zedong or more recently the Uighur "re-education" camps, but suffice to say if someone is going to raise the topic of genocide or human rights abuse in western countries, I wouldn't raise it as part of my defense of China that's for sure.

As for your globalization comment, here I agree with you. I'm not a nationalist by any means but i think the world has traveled far too far down the globalization path & the spread of the virus is in part due to this. The one hope I have out of all this is that governments may look to wind back their globalist agendas slightly, encourage more companies to resume manufacturing in their countries and start to look more after the interests of their own people. Not totally of course, globalism certainly has a very large role to play in today's world, but certainly a bit more than they do now.
China in focus, it looks like Japan are already pulling out of China, meanwhile in the UK I believe we have also received a vast amount of faulty medical supplies form China.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idXfVQ6Am_I
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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by Jezza13 »

pokerman wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Prema wrote:
Jezza13 wrote: if I read your post correctly Prema, we should all just get over it & move on without not even a hint of a friendly inquiry to the source of the outbreak?
As far as that one. The lessons have been already learnt, and are being learnt. Chinese government is providing, and will provide that much information and cooperation as they decide, depending on how that might (or rather might not) hurt them. Surely the friendly questions can be asked.. if they are friendly and scientific ones.

Otherwise, I do not see that China owes anything particularly to the world. It was the virus that hit them in the first place, and they dealt with it the way they did, while the era of globalism did the rest.
Throughout the history, the West has been spreading viruses and nasty diseases to the rest of the world that was there but to be conquered, decimating and even annihilating entire indigenous populations. Particularly the current nations of the US and Australia, apparently being the loudest about China, had been literally founded on such genocides. And China, they had suffer their fair share of similar destruction, some even being deliberately induced by the imperial powers of the West.
Yeah, I mean, the world got to get over it, move on. fairy cakes happens.
Lets see. A particularly virulent virus breaks out in China. Initially they delay in reporting the outbreak to the WHO. They then detain & silence whistleblower medical staff who attempted to alert the world of the severity of the virus & downplay its impact. They then provide false information to the WHO "There is no evidence of human to human transmission"whilst shutting down major cities & quietly instructing Chinese organisations globally to buy up as much masks, gloves, sanitizer etc as they can get their hands on & send it back to China. They then criticize governments like Australia for over-reacting when they get in early & initiate travel bans for people from China while at the very same time practically locking millions of it's own citizens in their houses & slapping up hospitals like they're building blocks, and you honestly believe China really owes the world nothing? Tens of thousands of deaths & millions of livelihoods severely impacted and all you think China owes the world is a shrug of the shoulders and a "sh1t happens and we'll only answer your questions if we want"? I honestly don't think any reasonable person wants China's neck in a noose, not that it'd happen anyway if that was the case, but China should be owning up to it's errors & answering questions no matter if it hurts them or not,

The issue is not really the virus itself but the actions of the Chinese government once it broke out. If China had reported the outbreak quickly & accurately to the WHO then there's a real chance this whole pandemic could've been avoided, or at the very least had it's effects greatly mitigated. So whether Trump or any other national leader has acted in a manner that can be seen as negligent is a matter for the people of those countries to decide, & it may in fact be the case that they have acted that way,but the fact remains the virus began in China and it's the clandestine & perhaps duplicitous nature in which the Chinese government acted that prevented the virus being adequately & promptly confronted on a global level thus allowing it to spread around the world before most governments could formulate an adequate & effective response causing devastation in almost every country on Earth.

I've no idea why you introduced genocide into the argument Prema as it's nothing to do with the topic being discussed but i'll quickly address that point anyway. Yes, the British colonists who settled Australia 230 yrs ago did indeed commit atrocities against the native inhabitants. It's an incredibly dark stain on the history of Australia but unlike some countries it's a stain we don't attempt to hide or remove, either nationally or globally. In the interest of keeping on topic though, i'll not delve into the murky depths of Chinese human rights abuses, massacres & genocide. I'll not go into detail on Tibet, Mao Zedong or more recently the Uighur "re-education" camps, but suffice to say if someone is going to raise the topic of genocide or human rights abuse in western countries, I wouldn't raise it as part of my defense of China that's for sure.

As for your globalization comment, here I agree with you. I'm not a nationalist by any means but i think the world has traveled far too far down the globalization path & the spread of the virus is in part due to this. The one hope I have out of all this is that governments may look to wind back their globalist agendas slightly, encourage more companies to resume manufacturing in their countries and start to look more after the interests of their own people. Not totally of course, globalism certainly has a very large role to play in today's world, but certainly a bit more than they do now.
China in focus, it looks like Japan are already pulling out of China, meanwhile in the UK I believe we have also received a vast amount of faulty medical supplies form China.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idXfVQ6Am_I
Yeah the supply of fault medical goods from China is being reported worldwide, including, quite disconcertingly, virus test kits.

Gave the video a view. It's quite obvious China in Focus, & the New Tang Dynasty (NTD) network has a distinct anti - China, or anti - Chinese government bias, so obviously it'd be recommended to do a bit of research before putting any veracity in their reports. It's constant reference to Covid19 as the CCP virus, or Chinese Communist Party virus, I think's on the nose. Other than being un-necessary, it's just petty & detracts from the legitimacy of the program.

Having said that, I had a look into a couple of their claims & they seem legit enough. I applaud Japans actions in pulling out of China. Hopefully this pandemic has shown governments they need to have the resources to be self sufficient in times of crisis & prompts them to ramp up manufacturing industries in their own countries because if the day comes where we face a similar situation that is truly a threat to our civilization, when push comes to shove, some very influential & powerful countries will look after their own well being first, & some would say justifiable so after all, that's why the governments leading those countries have been given the job

Of course the accusation of under reporting from China is pretty much a given. How does a nation of 1.5B people, many living in what we in the west would call un-sanitary conditions, suffer only 81,000 infections & 3300 deaths ? I can only think of 3 reasons.

1. It doesn't & the numbers have been horribly under-reported. I think this is the most likely scenario & the one i'm thinking is on point.
2. China's early & drastic measures are just a standard part of it's contingency plans should a new virus be identified & an outbreak detected. This is quite possible I suppose. If anyone has the capacity to shut down a country of 1.5B people almost overnight it'd be China.
3. Even at the very earliest stages of the outbreak, the CCP were already well aware of characteristics of this particular virus as well as the the appropriate measures needed to contain the spread throughout the country enabling it to effectively minimise the virus' impact.This scenario hints at particularly nefarious actions by China (think lab developed virus & accidental, or even a deliberately controlled release) & it's one I don't subscribe to.

Whatever the why's, how's, who's,what's & where's of this pandemic, the one thing that's needed when we come out the other side is a detailed global look at everything associated with the outbreak & spread of it as well as the effectiveness of the containment measures put in place & what can be done to prevent or minimise the chances of this happening again.

To reference Churchill's take on the George Santayana quote "Those who fail to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it"
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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by Exediron »

Jezza13 wrote:2. China's early & drastic measures are just a standard part of it's contingency plans should a new virus be identified & an outbreak detected. This is quite possible I suppose. If anyone has the capacity to shut down a country of 1.5B people almost overnight it'd be China.
I personally think it's this one -- mainly because even China doesn't have the ability to absolutely prevent leaks, and if the outbreak was far larger than reported (it would have to be an order of magnitude larger to be in line with what the USA is experiencing) someone, somewhere would have leaked that information.

We have to remember that China went through SARS, and while it was generally dismissed in the West as 'not a big deal', they took a very different lesson. All of the Asian countries that were affected by SARS put drastic measures into place in case it reemerged. South Korea has a different take (not surprisingly), but their measures were also prepared ahead of time as a result of SARS.
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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by pokerman »

Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Prema wrote:
Jezza13 wrote: if I read your post correctly Prema, we should all just get over it & move on without not even a hint of a friendly inquiry to the source of the outbreak?
As far as that one. The lessons have been already learnt, and are being learnt. Chinese government is providing, and will provide that much information and cooperation as they decide, depending on how that might (or rather might not) hurt them. Surely the friendly questions can be asked.. if they are friendly and scientific ones.

Otherwise, I do not see that China owes anything particularly to the world. It was the virus that hit them in the first place, and they dealt with it the way they did, while the era of globalism did the rest.
Throughout the history, the West has been spreading viruses and nasty diseases to the rest of the world that was there but to be conquered, decimating and even annihilating entire indigenous populations. Particularly the current nations of the US and Australia, apparently being the loudest about China, had been literally founded on such genocides. And China, they had suffer their fair share of similar destruction, some even being deliberately induced by the imperial powers of the West.
Yeah, I mean, the world got to get over it, move on. fairy cakes happens.
Lets see. A particularly virulent virus breaks out in China. Initially they delay in reporting the outbreak to the WHO. They then detain & silence whistleblower medical staff who attempted to alert the world of the severity of the virus & downplay its impact. They then provide false information to the WHO "There is no evidence of human to human transmission"whilst shutting down major cities & quietly instructing Chinese organisations globally to buy up as much masks, gloves, sanitizer etc as they can get their hands on & send it back to China. They then criticize governments like Australia for over-reacting when they get in early & initiate travel bans for people from China while at the very same time practically locking millions of it's own citizens in their houses & slapping up hospitals like they're building blocks, and you honestly believe China really owes the world nothing? Tens of thousands of deaths & millions of livelihoods severely impacted and all you think China owes the world is a shrug of the shoulders and a "sh1t happens and we'll only answer your questions if we want"? I honestly don't think any reasonable person wants China's neck in a noose, not that it'd happen anyway if that was the case, but China should be owning up to it's errors & answering questions no matter if it hurts them or not,

The issue is not really the virus itself but the actions of the Chinese government once it broke out. If China had reported the outbreak quickly & accurately to the WHO then there's a real chance this whole pandemic could've been avoided, or at the very least had it's effects greatly mitigated. So whether Trump or any other national leader has acted in a manner that can be seen as negligent is a matter for the people of those countries to decide, & it may in fact be the case that they have acted that way,but the fact remains the virus began in China and it's the clandestine & perhaps duplicitous nature in which the Chinese government acted that prevented the virus being adequately & promptly confronted on a global level thus allowing it to spread around the world before most governments could formulate an adequate & effective response causing devastation in almost every country on Earth.

I've no idea why you introduced genocide into the argument Prema as it's nothing to do with the topic being discussed but i'll quickly address that point anyway. Yes, the British colonists who settled Australia 230 yrs ago did indeed commit atrocities against the native inhabitants. It's an incredibly dark stain on the history of Australia but unlike some countries it's a stain we don't attempt to hide or remove, either nationally or globally. In the interest of keeping on topic though, i'll not delve into the murky depths of Chinese human rights abuses, massacres & genocide. I'll not go into detail on Tibet, Mao Zedong or more recently the Uighur "re-education" camps, but suffice to say if someone is going to raise the topic of genocide or human rights abuse in western countries, I wouldn't raise it as part of my defense of China that's for sure.

As for your globalization comment, here I agree with you. I'm not a nationalist by any means but i think the world has traveled far too far down the globalization path & the spread of the virus is in part due to this. The one hope I have out of all this is that governments may look to wind back their globalist agendas slightly, encourage more companies to resume manufacturing in their countries and start to look more after the interests of their own people. Not totally of course, globalism certainly has a very large role to play in today's world, but certainly a bit more than they do now.
China in focus, it looks like Japan are already pulling out of China, meanwhile in the UK I believe we have also received a vast amount of faulty medical supplies form China.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idXfVQ6Am_I
Yeah the supply of fault medical goods from China is being reported worldwide, including, quite disconcertingly, virus test kits.

Gave the video a view. It's quite obvious China in Focus, & the New Tang Dynasty (NTD) network has a distinct anti - China, or anti - Chinese government bias, so obviously it'd be recommended to do a bit of research before putting any veracity in their reports. It's constant reference to Covid19 as the CCP virus, or Chinese Communist Party virus, I think's on the nose. Other than being un-necessary, it's just petty & detracts from the legitimacy of the program.

Having said that, I had a look into a couple of their claims & they seem legit enough. I applaud Japans actions in pulling out of China. Hopefully this pandemic has shown governments they need to have the resources to be self sufficient in times of crisis & prompts them to ramp up manufacturing industries in their own countries because if the day comes where we face a similar situation that is truly a threat to our civilization, when push comes to shove, some very influential & powerful countries will look after their own well being first, & some would say justifiable so after all, that's why the governments leading those countries have been given the job

Of course the accusation of under reporting from China is pretty much a given. How does a nation of 1.5B people, many living in what we in the west would call un-sanitary conditions, suffer only 81,000 infections & 3300 deaths ? I can only think of 3 reasons.

1. It doesn't & the numbers have been horribly under-reported. I think this is the most likely scenario & the one i'm thinking is on point.
2. China's early & drastic measures are just a standard part of it's contingency plans should a new virus be identified & an outbreak detected. This is quite possible I suppose. If anyone has the capacity to shut down a country of 1.5B people almost overnight it'd be China.
3. Even at the very earliest stages of the outbreak, the CCP were already well aware of characteristics of this particular virus as well as the the appropriate measures needed to contain the spread throughout the country enabling it to effectively minimise the virus' impact.This scenario hints at particularly nefarious actions by China (think lab developed virus & accidental, or even a deliberately controlled release) & it's one I don't subscribe to.

Whatever the why's, how's, who's,what's & where's of this pandemic, the one thing that's needed when we come out the other side is a detailed global look at everything associated with the outbreak & spread of it as well as the effectiveness of the containment measures put in place & what can be done to prevent or minimise the chances of this happening again.

To reference Churchill's take on the George Santayana quote "Those who fail to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it"
One country prepared for this was Singapore after the SARS virus in 2003, and they seem to have quickly nipped it in the bud.

One thing to admire about China was their ability to apply the lockdown, do as we say or you will get arrested, whilst in the UK we have idiots in Manchester having barbeque parties and street parties because I guess they're a little bit bored, we threaten with fines that don't get imposed.
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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

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Jezza13 wrote:Of course the accusation of under reporting from China is pretty much a given. How does a nation of 1.5B people, many living in what we in the west would call un-sanitary conditions, suffer only 81,000 infections & 3300 deaths ? I can only think of 3 reasons.

1. It doesn't & the numbers have been horribly under-reported. I think this is the most likely scenario & the one i'm thinking is on point.
2. China's early & drastic measures are just a standard part of it's contingency plans should a new virus be identified & an outbreak detected. This is quite possible I suppose. If anyone has the capacity to shut down a country of 1.5B people almost overnight it'd be China.
3. Even at the very earliest stages of the outbreak, the CCP were already well aware of characteristics of this particular virus as well as the the appropriate measures needed to contain the spread throughout the country enabling it to effectively minimise the virus' impact.This scenario hints at particularly nefarious actions by China (think lab developed virus & accidental, or even a deliberately controlled release) & it's one I don't subscribe to.
Amazingly, viruses don't care about what people "in the West would call unsanitary" and different viruses spread in different environments.

This latest coronavirus was optimised for spreading in the environment that could be summed up as "the West's arrogance that those pandemic things are something that happen in other parts of the world."

The numbers that China's data produced fits the exactly same pattern as seen in Europe. The difference was that China locked down early.

I can remember telling my family and friends back in the UK that the government desperately needed to declare a lockdown (when they had already passed the numbers China had hit when China had put Wuhan in lockdown) and all I got back from them all was various tunes of "we're British and we don't do that sort of thing here."

The main difference with what happened in China and what happened everywhere else is that when the outbreak happened in China they didn't know that it was a new virus, they just had patients who weren't responding to treatment. When they did realise it was a new virus they ramped up their response and had the entire genome mapped and shared with the rest of world before there was a confirmed case outside of China (12 January).

What people don't seem to grasp is that the actual number of cases and deaths in China are irrelevant. What's important is the spread rate, and China's spread rate prior to the lockdown matches what was seen in the other countries that faced epidemics. And the spread rate is something you can't lie about, because if there is a tiny shift in it then it completely transforms how the virus spreads.

For example, if you start with 500 cases with a 1.3 daily transmission rate and a 14 day recovery rate then it means that 2 weeks later that 19,500 people will have the virus. If you increase that to 1.4 daily transmission rate that becomes 55,500 people and 0.5 becomes 145,500 people.

If you were to make it 2.0 then you are looking at over 8 million cases after 2 weeks. This is not the sort of thing you can lie about.

The reason this is causing such a problem for the West is that they waited too long to introduce lockdowns. It's as simple as that.

China put Wuhan into lockdown when there was 571 confirmed cases in the entirety of China, and zero deaths.

For comparison, here is when other countries introduced their lockdowns:

UK: 6,650 cases / 335 deaths (20 days after equalling Chinese lockdown cases / 52 days after first case in country)
Italy: 12,642 cases / 824 deaths (13 days after equalling Chinese lockdown cases / 40 days after first case in country)
Spain: 7753 cases / 288 deaths (7 days after equalling Chinese lockdown cases / 44 days after first case in country)

This whole rush to blame China doesn't stand up when that so-called 'bad data' was totally ignored from the outset. To say China underplayed it is first, demonstratively untrue because the numbers they released showed a highly contagious virus that needed strict control, something the West refused to do "because it would damage the economy and people like to go to the beach in the nice weather" - the result of the government's actions is:

The virus has spread far far more than it would have done had they implemented lockdowns at the same time China did.
Their economies have been damaged far far more than they would have been had they implemented lockdowns at the same time China did.
People are going to be banned from going to the beach for a lot longer than they would have been if they had implemented lockdowns at the same time China did.

Even if China is completely to blame and did everything wrong and was highly irresponsible at managing this outbreak, it's totally irrelevant at this point. The finger pointing can happen once the virus has been dealt with, at the moment the pandemic is very, very serious and all these news stories circulating about China's culpability are a smokescreen to hide the total and utter incompetence of pretty much every Western government that gambled on this being "A thing that affects Asia" like all the other recent pandemics were.

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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

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My brother lives in Nanjing and for timing reference for the lockdown, my niece started a school again today after being closed since Chinese New year began (25th January). Although they didn't confirm school closures until a week later during the new year holidays.
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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

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minchy wrote:My brother lives in Nanjing and for timing reference for the lockdown, my niece started a school again today after being closed since Chinese New year began (25th January). Although they didn't confirm school closures until a week later during the new year holidays.
Nanjing is in a different Chinese province, the city of Wuhan is in Hubei province and I was talking about when China put Wuhan into lockdown, which occurred on the 23rd January.

This actually exposes another fallacy in the dialogue surrounding the figures. All this talk of "Chinese having 1.4 billion people and only a handful of deaths" - the vast vast majority of these deaths were in one province (Hubei) and most of those were in one city (Wuhan)

A virus doesn't care about nations. It doesn't turn up and say "I'm in China now, I'm going to distribute myself equally amongst its people"

A virus spreads based on proximity, and China is a country with an area equal to the United States and larger than the European Union.

Hubei province has a population of 58 million people, an area of 185,000 km2 and a population density of 310 people per km2, and Wuhan has a population of 11 million. That makes it surprisinly similar to the UK, which has 67 million people, an area of 242,000 km2, a population density of 270 people per square kilometre, and London is a city of 9.7 million people.

Italy is fairly comparable too, with 60 million poeple, an area of 301,000 km2 with a population density of 201 people per km2 with Milan having a population 4.3 million.

When you compare things like virus spread you need to compare similar systems - China's provinces match up more with European countries than China as a whole - not just on a population and area level, but also the connectivity and movement of people within them.

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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

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Alien, I wasn't responding to your post directly as an example. I'm well aware of how massive China is and that Wuhan may as well be a different country to Jiangsu province. I was simply giving a rough idea of timescale for things to begin returning to normal.

Having said that, I have been told that as you said, Nanjing was put on lockdown well before any major outbreak in that part of China. They have still waited 2 months before relaxing their measures.

People do need to carry ID (I think this is on people's phones) to move about still which is checked at various points such as getting onto the metro system. I don't know exactly what is on the ID or how often it is updated, but the people checking the ID are also taking people temperature to check for any fever (my brother has volunteered to be one of these people, not only cause he is bored, but also to ease any racism towards him being a European, similar to the African community in Guangzhou), things that many people here in the UK would be up in arms about, taking away their personal freedom etc, like you again pointed out!

On a different note, when I told my brother the guidelines the UK government laid out, he did say that they sounded stricter than the ones in China! Guess the main difference being what the Chinese authorities can do to you compared to the UK.
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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

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minchy wrote:Alien, I wasn't responding to your post directly as an example. I'm well aware of how massive China is and that Wuhan may as well be a different country to Jiangsu province. I was simply giving a rough idea of timescale for things to begin returning to normal.

Having said that, I have been told that as you said, Nanjing was put on lockdown well before any major outbreak in that part of China. They have still waited 2 months before relaxing their measures.

People do need to carry ID (I think this is on people's phones) to move about still which is checked at various points such as getting onto the metro system. I don't know exactly what is on the ID or how often it is updated, but the people checking the ID are also taking people temperature to check for any fever (my brother has volunteered to be one of these people, not only cause he is bored, but also to ease any racism towards him being a European, similar to the African community in Guangzhou), things that many people here in the UK would be up in arms about, taking away their personal freedom etc, like you again pointed out!

On a different note, when I told my brother the guidelines the UK government laid out, he did say that they sounded stricter than the ones in China! Guess the main difference being what the Chinese authorities can do to you compared to the UK.
I know you weren't, but it did highlight the issue that i have seen played out pretty much everywhere on the Internet. I think that the lockdown in Wuhan was far more severe than anything we've seen in the West - outside of Hubei it wasn't necessary to go "full China" on its people as the outbreaks were far smaller, so they just needed to get the R0 factor down a fraction to bring it under control.

When you have a handful of cases, reducing the R0 is enough to bring it under control with basic social distancing - however after hundreds of deaths, you need to bring the R0 to as close to zero as possible (zero would be everyone in their own air tight bubble)

The West did nothing to reduce its R0 until it was too late, and that's why it's in the situation it is now in.

Incidentally, I currently live in Japan - and if watching what happened in Britain was a car crash, watching what the Japanese Government is doing is like watching the slow motion replay.

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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

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Another factor in China and the slower spread of the virus is simply the extreme poverty that most of the population are loving in. Outside the cities there is very little movement of people and not much movement between cities. You have to be fairly well off or work for the government to even consider even getting a passport.

Although the first case of the virus in the UK happened to be in my home city and was a Chinese tourist!
Last edited by minchy on Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Damn I'm posting a lot this afternoon!

I've just this second seen a post online from the brother saying that his wife's brother-in-law passed away last night (didn't specify if it was coronavirus related or not) in Guangzhou and his son was allowed to leave Hong Kong to go to his funeral but has now been detained by Guangzhou authorities, is unable to go to his dad's funeral and is unable to leave back to Hong Kong again.

So they're really not relaxing the travel ban and taking it very seriously I'm the South (forgetting about possible human rights issues involved). But can you imagine the uproar if the UK took similar steps with people coming or going?
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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

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minchy wrote:Alien, I wasn't responding to your post directly as an example. I'm well aware of how massive China is and that Wuhan may as well be a different country to Jiangsu province. I was simply giving a rough idea of timescale for things to begin returning to normal.

Having said that, I have been told that as you said, Nanjing was put on lockdown well before any major outbreak in that part of China. They have still waited 2 months before relaxing their measures.

People do need to carry ID (I think this is on people's phones) to move about still which is checked at various points such as getting onto the metro system. I don't know exactly what is on the ID or how often it is updated, but the people checking the ID are also taking people temperature to check for any fever (my brother has volunteered to be one of these people, not only cause he is bored, but also to ease any racism towards him being a European, similar to the African community in Guangzhou), things that many people here in the UK would be up in arms about, taking away their personal freedom etc, like you again pointed out!

On a different note, when I told my brother the guidelines the UK government laid out, he did say that they sounded stricter than the ones in China! Guess the main difference being what the Chinese authorities can do to you compared to the UK.
Watched the other day the reporter who went to Hubai, explaining it. It is a "health code" app with the personal info and the facial recognition that one is obliged to show in public places such as transportation, malls, restaurants and so on. The color of the app will indicate the health status, hence if someone is to be refused the access or/and even be quarantined. In the case someone is tested positive, the person's previous whereabouts can be tracked down and checked out for the virus.
Interesting that your brother volunteered, the reporter (from the US) stated that he had to surrender his passport upon arrival and install the app on his phone instead, no choice given. He experienced the app as "extremely intrusive" and doubted that it ever could be in use in the West.
Of course, the concerns that the app can be abused by the government for other purposes such as the increased control over people, is realistic.

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My brother has lived in China for 11 years now and 5 years in another stint previously, so he is used to how China works and accepts it as the norm now.
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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by Prema »

Jezza13 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
minchy wrote: I other news, I've almost finished my first toilet roll of the lockdown, so only 4 more of my stash to go!!!! Admittedly I'm living by myself, but only 1 roll in 2.5 weeks, did people really think they'd get through 50 rolls or more before all the new rules were laxed?
We are two and got over 3 rolls or so within the last two weeks. People are just dumb for the toilet roll situation, especially the ones having proper fisticuffs over it. But equally, I bet a lot of people went out to stockpile because the first wave (the "silly ones") started stockpiling, so they had to go and get some before it ran out from the shelves.
Or some believe in the old axiom " Crisis brings opportunity". Unfortunately this bloke, like so many other budding entrepreneurs, didn't quite plan for every contingency.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/healt ... 7aa071ca82

I suppose at least he'll have a little extra to bequeath to his kids when he dies.
"Crises brings opportunity" is applicable on all kinds of different levels.
In connection to what we discussed, here is how such "friendly" inquiry into China government's actions, by the side of foreign powers, does already look like - no need for any inquiry to start with. It's but the opportunity. The opportunity to drive the home public attention away from own government's failures by the mean of blaming someone else for everything and hanging them up, as well as to score big against the main geopolitical rival, China. Punish them financially and economically and humiliate the leadership.

Lindsey Graham, the GOP senator, spoke openly on FOX.

"The first thing I want to do is get the United States Senate on the record where we don't blame Trump, we blame China. The Chinese government is responsible for 16,000 American deaths and seventeen million Americans being unemployed."

"I think you're going to see a bipartisan push-back against China to punish them so severely to deter them in the future,"

"I want to start canceling some debt, that debt we owe to China because they should be paying us, not us paying China,"

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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by Blake »

Prema wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
minchy wrote: I other news, I've almost finished my first toilet roll of the lockdown, so only 4 more of my stash to go!!!! Admittedly I'm living by myself, but only 1 roll in 2.5 weeks, did people really think they'd get through 50 rolls or more before all the new rules were laxed?
We are two and got over 3 rolls or so within the last two weeks. People are just dumb for the toilet roll situation, especially the ones having proper fisticuffs over it. But equally, I bet a lot of people went out to stockpile because the first wave (the "silly ones") started stockpiling, so they had to go and get some before it ran out from the shelves.
Or some believe in the old axiom " Crisis brings opportunity". Unfortunately this bloke, like so many other budding entrepreneurs, didn't quite plan for every contingency.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/healt ... 7aa071ca82

I suppose at least he'll have a little extra to bequeath to his kids when he dies.
"Crises brings opportunity" is applicable on all kinds of different levels.
In connection to what we discussed, here is how such "friendly" inquiry into China government's actions, by the side of foreign powers, does already look like - no need for any inquiry to start with. It's but the opportunity. The opportunity to drive the home public attention away from own government's failures by the mean of blaming someone else for everything and hanging them up, as well as to score big against the main geopolitical rival, China. Punish them financially and economically and humiliate the leadership.

Lindsey Graham, the GOP senator, spoke openly on FOX.

"The first thing I want to do is get the United States Senate on the record where we don't blame Trump, we blame China. The Chinese government is responsible for 16,000 American deaths and seventeen million Americans being unemployed."

"I think you're going to see a bipartisan push-back against China to punish them so severely to deter them in the future,"

"I want to start canceling some debt, that debt we owe to China because they should be paying us, not us paying China,"
Lindsey Graham would not blame Trump if Trump Did shoot an unarmed person in the streets, he would probably introduce a bill to blame the victim...so anything he says should be taken with a grain of salt.

It is not in any way proper to suggest that 16,000 American deaths and seventeen million unemployed entirely on China. Maybe, had things been handled differently, perhaps numbers would be different, maybe not. We did not handle things well here in the US either, calling it a hoax or a non-issue until about a month ago. Our government has been a clusterf*** on this in so many ways.

Remember too, Graham is desperate to shield any blame from Donnie for the sake of the Republicans in the elections this fall.
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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by Greenman »

.

Any truth to this story, no one else seems to be reporting it ?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/ ... rands-prix

Silverstone confirms plan to host two consecutive F1 grands prix

- Permutations include races over one weekend or over two

- F1 Group is targeting a championship of up to 19 races

@giles_richards
Sun 19 Apr 2020 19.04 BSTLast modified on Sun 19 Apr 2020 20.55 BST

The organisers of the British Grand Prix have confirmed they would host two consecutive races at Silverstone this season if required and are currently discussing the proposal with Formula One Group. Stuart Pringle, the circuit’s managing director, said planning and preliminary preparations have begun towards becoming the first track to host two world championship grands prix in succession.

“We have discussed all sorts of permutations including hosting two races over one weekend and two races over consecutive weekends,” Pringle said. “I have complete confidence in our ability to put on these events. We have a lot of experience, a lot of knowledge, we can turn that on definitely.”

With racing having been suspended because of the coronavirus outbreak, F1 Group – a subsidiary of Liberty Media – is considering every option, including holding a double-header at the same track, potentially with two races over the weekend of the British Grand Prix, which is scheduled to take place on 19 July. The event at Silverstone, which hosted the first F1 grand prix in 1950, would almost certainly be behind closed doors, and F1 Group’s intent is to put on as full a championship as possible. Its target is to stage up to 19 races.

“F1 has been working very hard to try and work out what the solution for the world championship is,” Pringle said. “We have been in regular contact with them, and have been asked could we hold a race or two and could they be behind closed doors. The answer is absolutely, we are open to looking into anything and everything.”

The French Grand Prix is at present scheduled to be the first of the season on 28 June but it is highly likely to be postponed as the country’s government has banned mass gatherings until the middle of July. The next race is set for Austria on 5 July, two weeks before the British Grand Prix.

F1 Group has stated that the original 2020 calendar is no longer applicable and it is attempting to redraw an entirely new schedule in consultation with race promoters. Committing to beginning the season will depend on confidence that the new calendar is feasible. Silverstone will decide at the end of April whether to go forward with plans to host the meeting with spectators but the circuit does not need such a long lead time to prepare for racing behind closed doors.

“I think F1 will make a calendar-wide decision in the earlier part of May,” said Pringle. “They can’t set this ball rolling unless they have a solution that stands a fighting chance of running successfully over multiple races. That timescale would suit us if we didn’t have to put in the infrastructure for accommodating the public.”

Pringle also insisted any decisions would be made with government advice and with public safety paramount. “It’s important any discussion of a return to racing is appropriate,” he said. “Otherwise we risk being a distraction to the main message which is stay at home and we don’t want to do that.”

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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

Double headers in Austria and Silverstone (obviously with empty grandstands and anti-infection measures) would be a good way to start the 2020 season.

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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by j man »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Double headers in Austria and Silverstone (obviously with empty grandstands and anti-infection measures) would be a good way to start the 2020 season.
It's feeling like this could happen. A number of countries across Europe have started to ease lockdown restrictions, Austria included. The UK haven't done so yet but the question is starting to be asked and I'd expect it to happen next month given how the cases are trending at the moment. With that in mind, we could be in a position to get the season going in some form at the start of July when those two races were originally scheduled.

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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

Pitstops where the mechanics have to remain 2 metres apart will be interesting to see. And Max Verstappen getting a drive thru penalty from the government when he touches wheels on a overtake for failing to socially distance correctly...

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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by j man »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:Pitstops where the mechanics have to remain 2 metres apart will be interesting to see. And Max Verstappen getting a drive thru penalty from the government when he touches wheels on a overtake for failing to socially distance correctly...
Everyone would need to be wary of Grosjean though. Social distancing didn't stop him colliding with Marcus Ericsson.

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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by JN23 »

As posted in the Coronavirus update thread, no French GP. The plan is for 15-18 races. Europe July-early Sept, then to Asia/Americas and finishing in the Middle East. Sounds like to Austria races and two Silverstone races in July.

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Post by JN23 »

Also any race at Silverstone in 2020 will be behind closed doors, unsurprisingly.

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Post by Option or Prime »

ITS BACK. F1 to restart in Austria. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/52435988

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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

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Option or Prime wrote:ITS BACK. F1 to restart in Austria. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/52435988
It's the current plan.
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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by pc27b »

^ yep, lot can happen between now and july. all sports leagues claiming plans to restart. i wonder what happens if they do restart, then someone on a team tests positive ?

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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by JN23 »

pc27b wrote:^ yep, lot can happen between now and july. all sports leagues claiming plans to restart. i wonder what happens if they do restart, then someone on a team tests positive ?
Yeah this is a question that needs answering by all sports before restarting.

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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by tim3003 »

Running double-header races at Silverstone or A1_ring has been mentioned. But what format should a double-header race take?

Is it simply 2 GPs on consecutive weekends at the same track?
Or a combined 2 race meeting, running say from Friday to Monday, with 1 set of FP and quali sessions, and a 2nd race on Monday?
Or 2 complete races, the second starting with FP1 say on Tuesday? There must surely be a break of at least a day between the 2 races to allow teams to repair or replace damaged cars.. Even so, to fit the extra race in that week (race on Thursday) the teams would then need to be at the track for the next race on Friday.
Or maybe 2-day meetings? With only FP1 & 2 on Saturday, and quali & race on Sunday. Then a second race could be fitted in on Tues/Weds, leaving time to get to the next track. But could the rules just be altered to drop FP3 ?

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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by JN23 »

tim3003 wrote:Running double-header races at Silverstone or A1_ring has been mentioned. But what format should a double-header race take?

Is it simply 2 GPs on consecutive weekends at the same track?
Or a combined 2 race meeting, running say from Friday to Monday, with 1 set of FP and quali sessions, and a 2nd race on Monday?
Or 2 complete races, the second starting with FP1 say on Tuesday? There must surely be a break of at least a day between the 2 races to allow teams to repair or replace damaged cars.. Even so, to fit the extra race in that week (race on Thursday) the teams would then need to be at the track for the next race on Friday.
Or maybe 2-day meetings? With only FP1 & 2 on Saturday, and quali & race on Sunday. Then a second race could be fitted in on Tues/Weds, leaving time to get to the next track. But could the rules just be altered to drop FP3 ?
It’s two consecutive weekends at the same track rather than a super weekend.

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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by JN23 »

This BBC article sets out how the calendar would work in July and then a rough outline beyond that. There’s still a lot that could go wrong and leave us with not many races at all, but good to see how it might work.

Side point: nice to see them doing the season by area of the world, rather than the needless flying all over.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/52417996

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Covalent
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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by Covalent »

tim3003 wrote:Running double-header races at Silverstone or A1_ring has been mentioned. But what format should a double-header race take?

Is it simply 2 GPs on consecutive weekends at the same track?
Or a combined 2 race meeting, running say from Friday to Monday, with 1 set of FP and quali sessions, and a 2nd race on Monday?
Or 2 complete races, the second starting with FP1 say on Tuesday? There must surely be a break of at least a day between the 2 races to allow teams to repair or replace damaged cars.. Even so, to fit the extra race in that week (race on Thursday) the teams would then need to be at the track for the next race on Friday.
Or maybe 2-day meetings? With only FP1 & 2 on Saturday, and quali & race on Sunday. Then a second race could be fitted in on Tues/Weds, leaving time to get to the next track. But could the rules just be altered to drop FP3 ?
Wouldn't it be easier to just hand out double points ;)

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tim3003
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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by tim3003 »

JN23 wrote:
tim3003 wrote:Running double-header races at Silverstone or A1_ring has been mentioned. But what format should a double-header race take?

Is it simply 2 GPs on consecutive weekends at the same track?
Or a combined 2 race meeting, running say from Friday to Monday, with 1 set of FP and quali sessions, and a 2nd race on Monday?
Or 2 complete races, the second starting with FP1 say on Tuesday? There must surely be a break of at least a day between the 2 races to allow teams to repair or replace damaged cars.. Even so, to fit the extra race in that week (race on Thursday) the teams would then need to be at the track for the next race on Friday.
Or maybe 2-day meetings? With only FP1 & 2 on Saturday, and quali & race on Sunday. Then a second race could be fitted in on Tues/Weds, leaving time to get to the next track. But could the rules just be altered to drop FP3 ?
It’s two consecutive weekends at the same track rather than a super weekend.
If there are 2 GPs at each of 2 tracks, what will they be called?? There's always 'The European GP', but what else?

Zazu
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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by Zazu »

Am I the only person who has no desire to see races at the same track a week a part?


Also, UK struggling with keeping people in lockdown now. Obviously a lot will have changed by July but seeing an F1 race carried out as normal (sins crowd) isn't going to help keep the general public in line

Asphalt_World
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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

Zazu wrote:Am I the only person who has no desire to see races at the same track a week a part?


Also, UK struggling with keeping people in lockdown now. Obviously a lot will have changed by July but seeing an F1 race carried out as normal (sins crowd) isn't going to help keep the general public in line
You can bet your house on the fact that a British GP behind closed doors will still see huge numbers of fans around the Silverstone area. desperate for a chance to see teams and drivers arrive and to perhaps sneak a view of something or other. Social distancing will be forgotten by these people.
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JN23
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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by JN23 »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Zazu wrote:Am I the only person who has no desire to see races at the same track a week a part?


Also, UK struggling with keeping people in lockdown now. Obviously a lot will have changed by July but seeing an F1 race carried out as normal (sins crowd) isn't going to help keep the general public in line
You can bet your house on the fact that a British GP behind closed doors will still see huge numbers of fans around the Silverstone area. desperate for a chance to see teams and drivers arrive and to perhaps sneak a view of something or other. Social distancing will be forgotten by these people.
This is probably true, unfortunately.

PSG before the lockdown played Dortmund in the champions league and thousands gathered outside the ground as the game was behind closed doors. The PSG players went out onto a balcony and celebrated with them, the mind boggles. I imagine it’ll happen if/when the premier league resumes.

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Alienturnedhuman
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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

JN23 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
Zazu wrote:Am I the only person who has no desire to see races at the same track a week a part?


Also, UK struggling with keeping people in lockdown now. Obviously a lot will have changed by July but seeing an F1 race carried out as normal (sins crowd) isn't going to help keep the general public in line
You can bet your house on the fact that a British GP behind closed doors will still see huge numbers of fans around the Silverstone area. desperate for a chance to see teams and drivers arrive and to perhaps sneak a view of something or other. Social distancing will be forgotten by these people.
This is probably true, unfortunately.

PSG before the lockdown played Dortmund in the champions league and thousands gathered outside the ground as the game was behind closed doors. The PSG players went out onto a balcony and celebrated with them, the mind boggles. I imagine it’ll happen if/when the premier league resumes.
Football stadia are in cities, Silverstone is in the middle of nowhere. It'll be far easier to identify people who are in vicinity of the circuit illegally as they will have no reason to be there. While I agree, some will try, a police presence at the major junctions in the area on the way to the circuit will be able to turn most away before they get close to the circuit. I'm sure some will traipse through the fields, but those numbers will be small and would be picked up by the police drones before they got close.

F1 teams will be far more disciplined than football players - as they know what's at stake for the reputation of their sport and the likelihood of getting races in other countries if they mess around...

Fiki
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Re: Official Coronavirus Discussion thread

Post by Fiki »

Who would have thought that near-empty grandstands would one day be the answer to many a fan's prayers? But I think that with some detailed planning, a lot of selfdiscipline, and even more goodwill, that might indeed be the answer to a race in better conditions than simply behind closed doors?

I've never been to the British Grand Prix, but I understand car parks are now much better than they used to be, which is necessary, as inviting fans to the track by public transport might just be an invitation to begin a new wave of infection.

But I do think strictly controlled, much reduced numbers of fans can be an achievable goal.
Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity.

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