Female Racing Drivers

pokerman
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote: It's interesting that she brings forward the physical aspect of driving a race car were before it's been said on places such as this that such a thing is not a problem for women.
Perhaps a difference between a woman and a 14 year old girl?
Maybe but she was clearly generalising for all women.
I think she's talking from her own experience. If muscle weight was a good trade off we wouldn't have had tall drivers starving themselves for years.

I mean, shes essentially 100% accurate in what she says. I just don't see it as a disadvantage.
That totally misses the point, being over weight so you race over the minimum weight limit loses you lap time, for women ballast has to be put on the car because they are so light but that ballast obviously is not their muscle weight.

Women are probably disadvantaged by the amount of ballast they have to carry, the cars that they race have to be heavier than their male competitors. I think that's sort of the point she was making that they give up their advantage of being lighter whilst the men keep their advantage of being stronger?
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mikeyg123
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote: It's interesting that she brings forward the physical aspect of driving a race car were before it's been said on places such as this that such a thing is not a problem for women.
Perhaps a difference between a woman and a 14 year old girl?
Maybe but she was clearly generalising for all women.
I think she's talking from her own experience. If muscle weight was a good trade off we wouldn't have had tall drivers starving themselves for years.

I mean, shes essentially 100% accurate in what she says. I just don't see it as a disadvantage.
That totally misses the point, being over weight so you race over the minimum weight limit loses you lap time, for women ballast has to be put on the car because they are so light but that ballast obviously is not their muscle weight.

Women are probably disadvantaged by the amount of ballast they have to carry, the cars that they race have to be heavier than their male competitors. I think that's sort of the point she was making that they give up their advantage of being lighter whilst the men keep their advantage of being stronger?
The likes of Ocon don't appear particularly strong (i know looks can be deceiving) I think a woman should be able to obtain a similar strength. A woman at the top level would now doubt have to train differently than a man. They would have to train more for strength.

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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by Exediron »

mikeyg123 wrote:The likes of Ocon don't appear particularly strong (i know looks can be deceiving) I think a woman should be able to obtain a similar strength. A woman at the top level would now doubt have to train differently than a man. They would have to train more for strength.
Keep in mind that F1 cars actually require less strength to drive than some lower formula cars, since they have power steering and many others don't.
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote: Perhaps a difference between a woman and a 14 year old girl?
Maybe but she was clearly generalising for all women.
I think she's talking from her own experience. If muscle weight was a good trade off we wouldn't have had tall drivers starving themselves for years.

I mean, shes essentially 100% accurate in what she says. I just don't see it as a disadvantage.
That totally misses the point, being over weight so you race over the minimum weight limit loses you lap time, for women ballast has to be put on the car because they are so light but that ballast obviously is not their muscle weight.

Women are probably disadvantaged by the amount of ballast they have to carry, the cars that they race have to be heavier than their male competitors. I think that's sort of the point she was making that they give up their advantage of being lighter whilst the men keep their advantage of being stronger?
The likes of Ocon don't appear particularly strong (i know looks can be deceiving) I think a woman should be able to obtain a similar strength. A woman at the top level would now doubt have to train differently than a man. They would have to train more for strength.
Do you think someone like Jamie Chadwick is as strong as Ocon?

You seem to forget that even the men are training hard and as she said the women have to train even harder than that to hope to obtain the same level of strength.
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by pokerman »

Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:The likes of Ocon don't appear particularly strong (i know looks can be deceiving) I think a woman should be able to obtain a similar strength. A woman at the top level would now doubt have to train differently than a man. They would have to train more for strength.
Keep in mind that F1 cars actually require less strength to drive than some lower formula cars, since they have power steering and many others don't.
Yeah I believe Norris brought this up also I believe it was a problem for Danica Patrick in Indycars on the road courses, whereas on the ovals she was more competitive where I guess there's not the same level of steering inputs?
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote: Maybe but she was clearly generalising for all women.
I think she's talking from her own experience. If muscle weight was a good trade off we wouldn't have had tall drivers starving themselves for years.

I mean, shes essentially 100% accurate in what she says. I just don't see it as a disadvantage.
That totally misses the point, being over weight so you race over the minimum weight limit loses you lap time, for women ballast has to be put on the car because they are so light but that ballast obviously is not their muscle weight.

Women are probably disadvantaged by the amount of ballast they have to carry, the cars that they race have to be heavier than their male competitors. I think that's sort of the point she was making that they give up their advantage of being lighter whilst the men keep their advantage of being stronger?
The likes of Ocon don't appear particularly strong (i know looks can be deceiving) I think a woman should be able to obtain a similar strength. A woman at the top level would now doubt have to train differently than a man. They would have to train more for strength.
Do you think someone like Jamie Chadwick is as strong as Ocon?

You seem to forget that even the men are training hard and as she said the women have to train even harder than that to hope to obtain the same level of strength.
I've no idea if she is but I know that she could be if she put the training in. And yes she would have to train harder at her strength. It would be a different focus of training. I do Crossfit and I've seen just how strong girls can become with 6-8 hours a week of strength training. It doesn't have to be a problem.

The men are training hard but it's a lot of conditioning. A women could afford to be chunkier.

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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by Battle Far »

mikeyg123 wrote:A women could afford to be chunkier.
Wow Mikey, 8O 8O 8O

I know JuJu is only 14 but even I wouldn't say that to her face and I'm old enough to be her grandfather...

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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by Battle Far »

Talking about Chadwick and the race she led from start to finish before being penalised for a jump start see the race results below:-

Image

Having set fastest lap in race 7 Chadwick's fastest lap in race 8 was 0.8s faster than anyone else 8O

Is there something funny about the tyres used in this series, the lap times in race 9 were way slower (1-2 sec) with Chadwick of the pace :?

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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by pokerman »

Battle Far wrote:Talking about Chadwick and the race she led from start to finish before being penalised for a jump start see the race results below:-

Image

Having set fastest lap in race 7 Chadwick's fastest lap in race 8 was 0.8s faster than anyone else 8O

Is there something funny about the tyres used in this series, the lap times in race 9 were way slower (1-2 sec) with Chadwick of the pace :?
The tyres are made out of cheese, I'm not sure if that was the intention or whether they are just of poor quality?
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by DOLOMITE »

pokerman wrote: Do you think someone like Jamie Chadwick is as strong as Ocon?
Image

vs

Image

my money is on Chadders!
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

My son is 15 and skinny and lanky but he’s far stronger than his appearance would lead you to believe. I’d bet he’d be able to manhandle Chadwick and Ocon would manhandle him.
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

My son is 15 and skinny and lanky but he’s far stronger than his appearance would lead you to believe. I’d bet he’d be able to manhandle Chadwick and Ocon would manhandle him.
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mikeyg123
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by mikeyg123 »

Battle Far wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:A women could afford to be chunkier.
Wow Mikey, 8O 8O 8O

I know JuJu is only 14 but even I wouldn't say that to her face and I'm old enough to be her grandfather...
The more muscular build is what's fashionable at the moment.

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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by Herb »


pokerman
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by pokerman »

DOLOMITE wrote:
pokerman wrote: Do you think someone like Jamie Chadwick is as strong as Ocon?
Image

vs

Image

my money is on Chadders!
Yeah I'm sure the trophy is as heavy as it looks. :)

She's 5ft 2ins tall and weighs 9 stone so I guess she's a little bit chunky for her height using someone else's description of what's needed to match a man in strength but still she's only 5ft 2ins tall.

I was having this conversation with my nephew who out of the blue was able to tell me that 1 in a 1000 women are as strong as an average man, now how much strength do you need to drive a F1 car and why do the drivers need to train like athletes when driving a F1 car is maybe little more than driving down to the local shop?
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mikeyg123
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
pokerman wrote: Do you think someone like Jamie Chadwick is as strong as Ocon?
Image

vs

Image

my money is on Chadders!
Yeah I'm sure the trophy is as heavy as it looks. :)

She's 5ft 2ins tall and weighs 9 stone so I guess she's a little bit chunky for her height using someone else's description of what's needed to match a man in strength but still she's only 5ft 2ins tall.

I was having this conversation with my nephew who out of the blue was able to tell me that 1 in a 1000 women are as strong as an average man, now how much strength do you need to drive a F1 car and why do the drivers need to train like athletes when driving a F1 car is maybe little more than driving down to the local shop?
Tia Clair Toomey is the current Crossfit world champion. Shes 5ft 4, 9st 2lb and far stronger than any F1 drivers on the grid.

For the average person just strolling around the 1/1000 stat might be true (although I have some pretty strong doubts, what is that claim based on) but there's no reason why a women couldn't train up to be the strength of your average Formula 1 driver.

You keep banging on about these guys training "like athletes" I'm not really sure what that even means but what I do know is they aren't focusing largely on strength. A women would have to train differently, probably more at the start in order to build up that strength. When they get there, and any women could get there, they would have no issue maintaining that strength.

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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by DOLOMITE »

I think the point being made was based on averages.
Say you rate strength on a scale 0-10 and for arguments sake both sexes can potentially get to 10.
Then you say on average men are an 7 and women are a 5.
Then you say to drive an F1 car requires you to be an 8.

What being suggested then is that on average a woman would have to work harder to get to the level required for F1.

Make sense to me.

But this is averages what you may find is that a female driver trying to get F1 is already at the higher end of the average range so for her specifically it's not a big leap.
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
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pokerman
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
pokerman wrote: Do you think someone like Jamie Chadwick is as strong as Ocon?
Image

vs

Image

my money is on Chadders!
Yeah I'm sure the trophy is as heavy as it looks. :)

She's 5ft 2ins tall and weighs 9 stone so I guess she's a little bit chunky for her height using someone else's description of what's needed to match a man in strength but still she's only 5ft 2ins tall.

I was having this conversation with my nephew who out of the blue was able to tell me that 1 in a 1000 women are as strong as an average man, now how much strength do you need to drive a F1 car and why do the drivers need to train like athletes when driving a F1 car is maybe little more than driving down to the local shop?
Tia Clair Toomey is the current Crossfit world champion. Shes 5ft 4, 9st 2lb and far stronger than any F1 drivers on the grid.

For the average person just strolling around the 1/1000 stat might be true (although I have some pretty strong doubts, what is that claim based on) but there's no reason why a women couldn't train up to be the strength of your average Formula 1 driver.

You keep banging on about these guys training "like athletes" I'm not really sure what that even means but what I do know is they aren't focusing largely on strength. A women would have to train differently, probably more at the start in order to build up that strength. When they get there, and any women could get there, they would have no issue maintaining that strength.
I know nothing about Crossfit, I've never heard about it before, is it a new sport?

I also have never heard of Tia Clair Toomey so I can't comment on you saying that she's far stronger than any F1 driver even though she only weighs 9 stone.

In boxing they have weight classes, you wouldn't be finding a top tier 9 stone boxer being stronger than a top tier 10 stone boxer.

My nephew is a bit of a nerd, he no doubt read about it in some science journal yet it can be easily dismissed because a woman can easily train up to be as strong as a man it seems?

That being the case why do we need to split so many sports because physically women can't compete with men?

We might even argue that the 'W' series is another example of this?
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by pokerman »

DOLOMITE wrote:I think the point being made was based on averages.
Say you rate strength on a scale 0-10 and for arguments sake both sexes can potentially get to 10.
Then you say on average men are an 7 and women are a 5.
Then you say to drive an F1 car requires you to be an 8.

What being suggested then is that on average a woman would have to work harder to get to the level required for F1.

Make sense to me.

But this is averages what you may find is that a female driver trying to get F1 is already at the higher end of the average range so for her specifically it's not a big leap.
Clearly a woman can't get to a 10 otherwise there wouldn't be the need for divided sports.
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mikeyg123
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
pokerman wrote: Do you think someone like Jamie Chadwick is as strong as Ocon?
Image

vs

Image

my money is on Chadders!
Yeah I'm sure the trophy is as heavy as it looks. :)

She's 5ft 2ins tall and weighs 9 stone so I guess she's a little bit chunky for her height using someone else's description of what's needed to match a man in strength but still she's only 5ft 2ins tall.

I was having this conversation with my nephew who out of the blue was able to tell me that 1 in a 1000 women are as strong as an average man, now how much strength do you need to drive a F1 car and why do the drivers need to train like athletes when driving a F1 car is maybe little more than driving down to the local shop?
Tia Clair Toomey is the current Crossfit world champion. Shes 5ft 4, 9st 2lb and far stronger than any F1 drivers on the grid.

For the average person just strolling around the 1/1000 stat might be true (although I have some pretty strong doubts, what is that claim based on) but there's no reason why a women couldn't train up to be the strength of your average Formula 1 driver.

You keep banging on about these guys training "like athletes" I'm not really sure what that even means but what I do know is they aren't focusing largely on strength. A women would have to train differently, probably more at the start in order to build up that strength. When they get there, and any women could get there, they would have no issue maintaining that strength.
I know nothing about Crossfit, I've never heard about it before, is it a new sport?

I also have never heard of Tia Clair Toomey so I can't comment on you saying that she's far stronger than any F1 driver even though she only weighs 9 stone.

In boxing they have weight classes, you wouldn't be finding a top tier 9 stone boxer being stronger than a top tier 10 stone boxer.

My nephew is a bit of a nerd, he no doubt read about it in some science journal yet it can be easily dismissed because a woman can easily train up to be as strong as a man it seems?

That being the case why do we need to split so many sports because physically women can't compete with men?

We might even argue that the 'W' series is another example of this?
YES! It absolutely can. The comparison between average untrained people mean nothing in this context.

The only thing that matters is can a women train up to the strength required to drive an F1 car?

Which they obviously absolutely can as you don't need to be massively strong to drive an F1 car.

F1 is different to most sports in that physical speed or strength is not the limiting factor. You just have to be strong enough.

Why do you think it's so impossible for a woman to train up to be as strong as a very skinny man in his early 20s?

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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by DOLOMITE »

pokerman wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:I think the point being made was based on averages.
Say you rate strength on a scale 0-10 and for arguments sake both sexes can potentially get to 10.
Then you say on average men are an 7 and women are a 5.
Then you say to drive an F1 car requires you to be an 8.

What being suggested then is that on average a woman would have to work harder to get to the level required for F1.

Make sense to me.

But this is averages what you may find is that a female driver trying to get F1 is already at the higher end of the average range so for her specifically it's not a big leap.
Clearly a woman can't get to a 10 otherwise there wouldn't be the need for divided sports.
hence the "for arguments sake" caveat......
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by DOLOMITE »

pokerman wrote:
I also have never heard of Tia Clair Toomey so I can't comment on you saying that she's far stronger than any F1 driver even though she only weighs 9 stone.
She's actually a weightlifter/crossfit athlete. I think that's significant. My wife does crossfit and runs marathons. I do no exercise at all , but am still significantly stronger than her.

I think F1 is more about stamina overall and neck strength. After that, strength means bulk which current F1 drivers definitely do not want.
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss

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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
pokerman wrote: Do you think someone like Jamie Chadwick is as strong as Ocon?
Image

vs

Image

my money is on Chadders!
Yeah I'm sure the trophy is as heavy as it looks. :)

She's 5ft 2ins tall and weighs 9 stone so I guess she's a little bit chunky for her height using someone else's description of what's needed to match a man in strength but still she's only 5ft 2ins tall.

I was having this conversation with my nephew who out of the blue was able to tell me that 1 in a 1000 women are as strong as an average man, now how much strength do you need to drive a F1 car and why do the drivers need to train like athletes when driving a F1 car is maybe little more than driving down to the local shop?
Tia Clair Toomey is the current Crossfit world champion. Shes 5ft 4, 9st 2lb and far stronger than any F1 drivers on the grid.

For the average person just strolling around the 1/1000 stat might be true (although I have some pretty strong doubts, what is that claim based on) but there's no reason why a women couldn't train up to be the strength of your average Formula 1 driver.

You keep banging on about these guys training "like athletes" I'm not really sure what that even means but what I do know is they aren't focusing largely on strength. A women would have to train differently, probably more at the start in order to build up that strength. When they get there, and any women could get there, they would have no issue maintaining that strength.
I've just looked it up and as far as I can see the women don't compete against the men, she's listed as the Women's Crossfit World Champion, so maybe a bit misleading?
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by pokerman »

DOLOMITE wrote:
pokerman wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:I think the point being made was based on averages.
Say you rate strength on a scale 0-10 and for arguments sake both sexes can potentially get to 10.
Then you say on average men are an 7 and women are a 5.
Then you say to drive an F1 car requires you to be an 8.

What being suggested then is that on average a woman would have to work harder to get to the level required for F1.

Make sense to me.

But this is averages what you may find is that a female driver trying to get F1 is already at the higher end of the average range so for her specifically it's not a big leap.
Clearly a woman can't get to a 10 otherwise there wouldn't be the need for divided sports.
hence the "for arguments sake" caveat......
You lost me at the point were you said a woman could be a 10 same as a man.
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by pokerman »

DOLOMITE wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I also have never heard of Tia Clair Toomey so I can't comment on you saying that she's far stronger than any F1 driver even though she only weighs 9 stone.
She's actually a weightlifter/crossfit athlete. I think that's significant. My wife does crossfit and runs marathons. I do no exercise at all , but am still significantly stronger than her.

I think F1 is more about stamina overall and neck strength. After that, strength means bulk which current F1 drivers definitely do not want.
Let's not forget that it's Noda that ventured the physical short comings of female racing drivers, it's something before dismissed as not being a factor for women.
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by DOLOMITE »

pokerman wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
pokerman wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:I think the point being made was based on averages.
Say you rate strength on a scale 0-10 and for arguments sake both sexes can potentially get to 10.
Then you say on average men are an 7 and women are a 5.
Then you say to drive an F1 car requires you to be an 8.

What being suggested then is that on average a woman would have to work harder to get to the level required for F1.

Make sense to me.

But this is averages what you may find is that a female driver trying to get F1 is already at the higher end of the average range so for her specifically it's not a big leap.
Clearly a woman can't get to a 10 otherwise there wouldn't be the need for divided sports.
hence the "for arguments sake" caveat......
You lost me at the point were you said a woman could be a 10 same as a man.
No... I said for arguments sake , assume that...

It makes little difference in the example I was trying to make, but here, with slight amendment:

----
I think the point being made was based on averages.
Say you rate strength on a scale 0-10, 10 being the strongest a human can be.
Then you say on average men are an 7 and women are a 5.
Then you say to drive an F1 car requires you to be an 8.

What being suggested then is that on average a woman would have to work harder to get to the level required for F1. i.e the jump from 5 to 8 is bigger than 7 to 8.
----

If you are still lost, I'm OK with that.
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss

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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by pokerman »

DOLOMITE wrote:
pokerman wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
pokerman wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:I think the point being made was based on averages.
Say you rate strength on a scale 0-10 and for arguments sake both sexes can potentially get to 10.
Then you say on average men are an 7 and women are a 5.
Then you say to drive an F1 car requires you to be an 8.

What being suggested then is that on average a woman would have to work harder to get to the level required for F1.

Make sense to me.

But this is averages what you may find is that a female driver trying to get F1 is already at the higher end of the average range so for her specifically it's not a big leap.
Clearly a woman can't get to a 10 otherwise there wouldn't be the need for divided sports.
hence the "for arguments sake" caveat......
You lost me at the point were you said a woman could be a 10 same as a man.
No... I said for arguments sake , assume that...

It makes little difference in the example I was trying to make, but here, with slight amendment:

----
I think the point being made was based on averages.
Say you rate strength on a scale 0-10, 10 being the strongest a human can be.
Then you say on average men are an 7 and women are a 5.
Then you say to drive an F1 car requires you to be an 8.

What being suggested then is that on average a woman would have to work harder to get to the level required for F1. i.e the jump from 5 to 8 is bigger than 7 to 8.
----

If you are still lost, I'm OK with that.
Fair enough but I think you might appreciate that it's all a bit vague like an average man (7) only having to train to a (8) to compete in F1.

I did hear that Calderon is racing in Japan this year because the cars have power steering something she struggled with in F2, I know it's been said that F2 cars are physically harder to driver than F1 cars.

It might be a problem in F1, it might not, it was just interesting hearing JuJu Noda's comments about her physical difficulties in comparison to male competitors.
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mikeyg123
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
pokerman wrote: Do you think someone like Jamie Chadwick is as strong as Ocon?
Image

vs

Image

my money is on Chadders!
Yeah I'm sure the trophy is as heavy as it looks. :)

She's 5ft 2ins tall and weighs 9 stone so I guess she's a little bit chunky for her height using someone else's description of what's needed to match a man in strength but still she's only 5ft 2ins tall.

I was having this conversation with my nephew who out of the blue was able to tell me that 1 in a 1000 women are as strong as an average man, now how much strength do you need to drive a F1 car and why do the drivers need to train like athletes when driving a F1 car is maybe little more than driving down to the local shop?
Tia Clair Toomey is the current Crossfit world champion. Shes 5ft 4, 9st 2lb and far stronger than any F1 drivers on the grid.

For the average person just strolling around the 1/1000 stat might be true (although I have some pretty strong doubts, what is that claim based on) but there's no reason why a women couldn't train up to be the strength of your average Formula 1 driver.

You keep banging on about these guys training "like athletes" I'm not really sure what that even means but what I do know is they aren't focusing largely on strength. A women would have to train differently, probably more at the start in order to build up that strength. When they get there, and any women could get there, they would have no issue maintaining that strength.
I've just looked it up and as far as I can see the women don't compete against the men, she's listed as the Women's Crossfit World Champion, so maybe a bit misleading?
Why is that misleading? My point is not that she is as strong as male crossfitters but that she is as stronger than the average man and stronger than any F1 driver. All whilst keeping down to a size that would allow her to compete in F1. It proves it can be done.

pokerman
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote: Image

vs

Image

my money is on Chadders!
Yeah I'm sure the trophy is as heavy as it looks. :)

She's 5ft 2ins tall and weighs 9 stone so I guess she's a little bit chunky for her height using someone else's description of what's needed to match a man in strength but still she's only 5ft 2ins tall.

I was having this conversation with my nephew who out of the blue was able to tell me that 1 in a 1000 women are as strong as an average man, now how much strength do you need to drive a F1 car and why do the drivers need to train like athletes when driving a F1 car is maybe little more than driving down to the local shop?
Tia Clair Toomey is the current Crossfit world champion. Shes 5ft 4, 9st 2lb and far stronger than any F1 drivers on the grid.

For the average person just strolling around the 1/1000 stat might be true (although I have some pretty strong doubts, what is that claim based on) but there's no reason why a women couldn't train up to be the strength of your average Formula 1 driver.

You keep banging on about these guys training "like athletes" I'm not really sure what that even means but what I do know is they aren't focusing largely on strength. A women would have to train differently, probably more at the start in order to build up that strength. When they get there, and any women could get there, they would have no issue maintaining that strength.
I've just looked it up and as far as I can see the women don't compete against the men, she's listed as the Women's Crossfit World Champion, so maybe a bit misleading?
Why is that misleading? My point is not that she is as strong as male crossfitters but that she is as stronger than the average man and stronger than any F1 driver. All whilst keeping down to a size that would allow her to compete in F1. It proves it can be done.
Introducing her as THE Crossfit World Champion came across as all encompassing and perhaps we're dealing with a super woman here?

I don't really think we have any evidence of her being far stronger than any F1 driver, drivers who have to train to compete, some of which are about 2 stones heavier than her.

The average man in the data would be just that an average man and not an athlete, I would say that an average man would not be able to compete in F1 on a physical level without training and then would the likes of Tia Clare Toomey still be stronger weighing in at just 9 stone?

To a point it's a bit moot because we don't know if the limiting factor of a woman competing in F1 might be down to strength because we've never seen a woman compete in F1, but I believe it was a factor for Calderon in F2?

Also to a point it depends on what future direction F1 goes in with the cars, there are times when the drivers complain that they are too easy to drive so it might not be a problem at all?

When you look at the women presently competing in single seaters it may be fair to say that none of them are physical specimens like Tia Clair Toomey.
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote: Yeah I'm sure the trophy is as heavy as it looks. :)

She's 5ft 2ins tall and weighs 9 stone so I guess she's a little bit chunky for her height using someone else's description of what's needed to match a man in strength but still she's only 5ft 2ins tall.

I was having this conversation with my nephew who out of the blue was able to tell me that 1 in a 1000 women are as strong as an average man, now how much strength do you need to drive a F1 car and why do the drivers need to train like athletes when driving a F1 car is maybe little more than driving down to the local shop?
Tia Clair Toomey is the current Crossfit world champion. Shes 5ft 4, 9st 2lb and far stronger than any F1 drivers on the grid.

For the average person just strolling around the 1/1000 stat might be true (although I have some pretty strong doubts, what is that claim based on) but there's no reason why a women couldn't train up to be the strength of your average Formula 1 driver.

You keep banging on about these guys training "like athletes" I'm not really sure what that even means but what I do know is they aren't focusing largely on strength. A women would have to train differently, probably more at the start in order to build up that strength. When they get there, and any women could get there, they would have no issue maintaining that strength.
I've just looked it up and as far as I can see the women don't compete against the men, she's listed as the Women's Crossfit World Champion, so maybe a bit misleading?
Why is that misleading? My point is not that she is as strong as male crossfitters but that she is as stronger than the average man and stronger than any F1 driver. All whilst keeping down to a size that would allow her to compete in F1. It proves it can be done.
Introducing her as THE Crossfit World Champion came across as all encompassing and perhaps we're dealing with a super woman here?

I don't really think we have any evidence of her being far stronger than any F1 driver, drivers who have to train to compete, some of which are about 2 stones heavier than her.

The average man in the data would be just that an average man and not an athlete, I would say that an average man would not be able to compete in F1 on a physical level without training and then would the likes of Tia Clare Toomey still be stronger weighing in at just 9 stone?

To a point it's a bit moot because we don't know if the limiting factor of a woman competing in F1 might be down to strength because we've never seen a woman compete in F1, but I believe it was a factor for Calderon in F2?

Also to a point it depends on what future direction F1 goes in with the cars, there are times when the drivers complain that they are too easy to drive so it might not be a problem at all?

When you look at the women presently competing in single seaters it may be fair to say that none of them are physical specimens like Tia Clair Toomey.
Tia lifts more than most guys who have been lifting for years. Now there's noway you have to be that strong to drive an F1 car so a women should be OK. Even if they have to train a little harder to get there. F2 is much more physical than F1. It's been said by numerous people.

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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote: Tia Clair Toomey is the current Crossfit world champion. Shes 5ft 4, 9st 2lb and far stronger than any F1 drivers on the grid.

For the average person just strolling around the 1/1000 stat might be true (although I have some pretty strong doubts, what is that claim based on) but there's no reason why a women couldn't train up to be the strength of your average Formula 1 driver.

You keep banging on about these guys training "like athletes" I'm not really sure what that even means but what I do know is they aren't focusing largely on strength. A women would have to train differently, probably more at the start in order to build up that strength. When they get there, and any women could get there, they would have no issue maintaining that strength.
I've just looked it up and as far as I can see the women don't compete against the men, she's listed as the Women's Crossfit World Champion, so maybe a bit misleading?
Why is that misleading? My point is not that she is as strong as male crossfitters but that she is as stronger than the average man and stronger than any F1 driver. All whilst keeping down to a size that would allow her to compete in F1. It proves it can be done.
Introducing her as THE Crossfit World Champion came across as all encompassing and perhaps we're dealing with a super woman here?

I don't really think we have any evidence of her being far stronger than any F1 driver, drivers who have to train to compete, some of which are about 2 stones heavier than her.

The average man in the data would be just that an average man and not an athlete, I would say that an average man would not be able to compete in F1 on a physical level without training and then would the likes of Tia Clare Toomey still be stronger weighing in at just 9 stone?

To a point it's a bit moot because we don't know if the limiting factor of a woman competing in F1 might be down to strength because we've never seen a woman compete in F1, but I believe it was a factor for Calderon in F2?

Also to a point it depends on what future direction F1 goes in with the cars, there are times when the drivers complain that they are too easy to drive so it might not be a problem at all?

When you look at the women presently competing in single seaters it may be fair to say that none of them are physical specimens like Tia Clair Toomey.
Tia lifts more than most guys who have been lifting for years. Now there's noway you have to be that strong to drive an F1 car so a women should be OK. Even if they have to train a little harder to get there. F2 is much more physical than F1. It's been said by numerous people.
Well she's probably one of these 1 in a thousand women, we seem to be going down this route that any woman can be as strong as a man and therefore can compete on an equal footing to a man which clearly is not true.

We've seen in the past the likes of Danica Patrick struggle to drive an Indycar on street and road courses because the cars didn't have power steering, why wasn't it a simple matter of her bulking up and getting stronger so it wouldn't be a problem for her, nominally as a professionally sportsman that's what you would do if it was possible.

It's true to say this might not be a problem in F1 but of course it's not to say such things have never been a problem for women like with Calderon in F2, and who's to say they might not make the F1 cars harder to drive in the future, Hamilton already complained last season that the cars were too easy to drive.

It's just one aspect to consider on the back of recent statements by Calderon and JuJu Noda and perhaps it's more poignant with the likes of Calderon who is reasonable big and not small like Patrick and Noda, if it's so easy for a woman to get in shape like Tia then why couldn't Calderon do it?
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mikeyg123
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote: I've just looked it up and as far as I can see the women don't compete against the men, she's listed as the Women's Crossfit World Champion, so maybe a bit misleading?
Why is that misleading? My point is not that she is as strong as male crossfitters but that she is as stronger than the average man and stronger than any F1 driver. All whilst keeping down to a size that would allow her to compete in F1. It proves it can be done.
Introducing her as THE Crossfit World Champion came across as all encompassing and perhaps we're dealing with a super woman here?

I don't really think we have any evidence of her being far stronger than any F1 driver, drivers who have to train to compete, some of which are about 2 stones heavier than her.

The average man in the data would be just that an average man and not an athlete, I would say that an average man would not be able to compete in F1 on a physical level without training and then would the likes of Tia Clare Toomey still be stronger weighing in at just 9 stone?

To a point it's a bit moot because we don't know if the limiting factor of a woman competing in F1 might be down to strength because we've never seen a woman compete in F1, but I believe it was a factor for Calderon in F2?

Also to a point it depends on what future direction F1 goes in with the cars, there are times when the drivers complain that they are too easy to drive so it might not be a problem at all?

When you look at the women presently competing in single seaters it may be fair to say that none of them are physical specimens like Tia Clair Toomey.
Tia lifts more than most guys who have been lifting for years. Now there's noway you have to be that strong to drive an F1 car so a women should be OK. Even if they have to train a little harder to get there. F2 is much more physical than F1. It's been said by numerous people.
Well she's probably one of these 1 in a thousand women, we seem to be going down this route that any woman can be as strong as a man and therefore can compete on an equal footing to a man which clearly is not true.

We've seen in the past the likes of Danica Patrick struggle to drive an Indycar on street and road courses because the cars didn't have power steering, why wasn't it a simple matter of her bulking up and getting stronger so it wouldn't be a problem for her, nominally as a professionally sportsman that's what you would do if it was possible.

It's true to say this might not be a problem in F1 but of course it's not to say such things have never been a problem for women like with Calderon in F2, and who's to say they might not make the F1 cars harder to drive in the future, Hamilton already complained last season that the cars were too easy to drive.

It's just one aspect to consider on the back of recent statements by Calderon and JuJu Noda and perhaps it's more poignant with the likes of Calderon who is reasonable big and not small like Patrick and Noda, if it's so easy for a woman to get in shape like Tia then why couldn't Calderon do it?
It's not clearly untrue.

Any healthy young women could train up to be as strong as an average man. I've seen it done. Many, many times over.

You're 1/1000 may apply to the average population walking about. Maybe 1/1000 women would be naturally stronger than the average man without either under going any strength training. That, I agree, would be very rare.

But we aren't talking about that. The question that's important is do women have the potential to train up to being as strong as a male formula 1 driver. The answer to that to me is pretty clearly a yes.

You don't need to be as strong as Tia either. Nothing like that strong I would have thought. I just used her as an example to show what was possible.

Don't forget F2 and Indycar is a hell of a lot more physical than F1.

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DOLOMITE
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by DOLOMITE »

Interesting insight here on the F1 vs Indy angle : https://www.indycar.com/News/2016/10/10 ... yCar-vs-F1
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by DOLOMITE »

Herb wrote:
Thanks for this btw. I'd read an interview with Legge where she said she was planing this.
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by Battle Far »

mikeyg123 wrote:You keep banging on about these guys training "like athletes" I'm not really sure what that even means but what I do know is they aren't focusing largely on strength. A women would have to train differently, probably more at the start in order to build up that strength. When they get there, and any women could get there, they would have no issue maintaining that strength.
Mikey, I was trying to be polite earlier but I'm afraid you are simply coming across both as misogynistic regarding women and wholly ignorant about the level of fitness required for F1. Drivers train for longer each day than footballers or rugby players and are also far less specialised in their training regime.

Go and watch the Superstars competitions on Youtube from the '70s & '80s where you will see F1 drivers exhibiting elite athlete conditioning across ALL disciplines. They consistently scored highly on strength tasks, they also scored highly on dextrous and aerobic tasks, unlike specialist sport athletes like runners or jumpers or weightlifters.

Do you have any idea how much neck strength is needed to hold your helmeted head up with 4+G lateral force?, you are talking about at least 40kg load for multiple seconds around 10 times a minute, most MEN can't even LIFT a sack of potatoes with their neck without specialist training... And that's without considering braking forces where both leg strength and G-Force are critical.

There are sports where women can compete equally with men physically such as aerobatics, fixed wing glider (not hang gliders) racing, show jumping, etc. F1 isn't one of them, Noda is 100% correct, women have to compensate for their physiological disadvantages with MORE training to compete with men.

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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by mikeyg123 »

Battle Far wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:You keep banging on about these guys training "like athletes" I'm not really sure what that even means but what I do know is they aren't focusing largely on strength. A women would have to train differently, probably more at the start in order to build up that strength. When they get there, and any women could get there, they would have no issue maintaining that strength.
Mikey, I was trying to be polite earlier but I'm afraid you are simply coming across both as misogynistic regarding women and wholly ignorant about the level of fitness required for F1. Drivers train for longer each day than footballers or rugby players and are also far less specialised in their training regime.

Go and watch the Superstars competitions on Youtube from the '70s & '80s where you will see F1 drivers exhibiting elite athlete conditioning across ALL disciplines. They consistently scored highly on strength tasks, they also scored highly on dextrous and aerobic tasks, unlike specialist sport athletes like runners or jumpers or weightlifters.

Do you have any idea how much neck strength is needed to hold your helmeted head up with 4+G lateral force?, you are talking about at least 40kg load for multiple seconds around 10 times a minute, most MEN can't even LIFT a sack of potatoes with their neck without specialist training... And that's without considering braking forces where both leg strength and G-Force are critical.

There are sports where women can compete equally with men physically such as aerobatics, fixed wing glider (not hang gliders) racing, show jumping, etc. F1 isn't one of them, Noda is 100% correct, women have to compensate for their physiological disadvantages with MORE training to compete with men.
I 100% disagree on just about every point by I respect your opinion. Apart from calling me misogynistic. I don't respect that. Given the context of my posts is just weird. I'm saying women can do these things. I feel to see how that can possibly show any prejudice against women.

Edit- Hang on your last sentence is exactly what I have been saying! They would have to do more strength training to get to the required strength to drive an F1 car quickly.

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DOLOMITE
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by DOLOMITE »

Battle Far wrote: There are sports where women can compete equally with men physically such as aerobatics, fixed wing glider (not hang gliders) racing, show jumping, etc. F1 isn't one of them, Noda is 100% correct, women have to compensate for their physiological disadvantages with MORE training to compete with men.

Saying it's harder to get there isn't the same thing as it can't be done.
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote: Why is that misleading? My point is not that she is as strong as male crossfitters but that she is as stronger than the average man and stronger than any F1 driver. All whilst keeping down to a size that would allow her to compete in F1. It proves it can be done.
Introducing her as THE Crossfit World Champion came across as all encompassing and perhaps we're dealing with a super woman here?

I don't really think we have any evidence of her being far stronger than any F1 driver, drivers who have to train to compete, some of which are about 2 stones heavier than her.

The average man in the data would be just that an average man and not an athlete, I would say that an average man would not be able to compete in F1 on a physical level without training and then would the likes of Tia Clare Toomey still be stronger weighing in at just 9 stone?

To a point it's a bit moot because we don't know if the limiting factor of a woman competing in F1 might be down to strength because we've never seen a woman compete in F1, but I believe it was a factor for Calderon in F2?

Also to a point it depends on what future direction F1 goes in with the cars, there are times when the drivers complain that they are too easy to drive so it might not be a problem at all?

When you look at the women presently competing in single seaters it may be fair to say that none of them are physical specimens like Tia Clair Toomey.
Tia lifts more than most guys who have been lifting for years. Now there's noway you have to be that strong to drive an F1 car so a women should be OK. Even if they have to train a little harder to get there. F2 is much more physical than F1. It's been said by numerous people.
Well she's probably one of these 1 in a thousand women, we seem to be going down this route that any woman can be as strong as a man and therefore can compete on an equal footing to a man which clearly is not true.

We've seen in the past the likes of Danica Patrick struggle to drive an Indycar on street and road courses because the cars didn't have power steering, why wasn't it a simple matter of her bulking up and getting stronger so it wouldn't be a problem for her, nominally as a professionally sportsman that's what you would do if it was possible.

It's true to say this might not be a problem in F1 but of course it's not to say such things have never been a problem for women like with Calderon in F2, and who's to say they might not make the F1 cars harder to drive in the future, Hamilton already complained last season that the cars were too easy to drive.

It's just one aspect to consider on the back of recent statements by Calderon and JuJu Noda and perhaps it's more poignant with the likes of Calderon who is reasonable big and not small like Patrick and Noda, if it's so easy for a woman to get in shape like Tia then why couldn't Calderon do it?
It's not clearly untrue.

Any healthy young women could train up to be as strong as an average man. I've seen it done. Many, many times over.

You're 1/1000 may apply to the average population walking about. Maybe 1/1000 women would be naturally stronger than the average man without either under going any strength training. That, I agree, would be very rare.

But we aren't talking about that. The question that's important is do women have the potential to train up to being as strong as a male formula 1 driver. The answer to that to me is pretty clearly a yes.

You don't need to be as strong as Tia either. Nothing like that strong I would have thought. I just used her as an example to show what was possible.

Don't forget F2 and Indycar is a hell of a lot more physical than F1.
I think there's two things that you are confusing so I have to say no then yes, can a woman train to be as strong as a male F1 driver, a woman maybe, just any woman I would say no.

I would say that F1 drivers probably train just as hard as let's say tennis players, in that sport the women probably train just as hard as the men so then why are the women weaker?

However to the other part then maybe a yes that women in general can be strong enough to drive a F1 car competitively although we've yet to see one that's good enough to make it to that level, but like I say it's a fine line to draw given the likes of Patrick, Noda and Calderon have struggled physically in other single seater racing cars were their male competitors have not had a problem.
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mikeyg123
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Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote: Introducing her as THE Crossfit World Champion came across as all encompassing and perhaps we're dealing with a super woman here?

I don't really think we have any evidence of her being far stronger than any F1 driver, drivers who have to train to compete, some of which are about 2 stones heavier than her.

The average man in the data would be just that an average man and not an athlete, I would say that an average man would not be able to compete in F1 on a physical level without training and then would the likes of Tia Clare Toomey still be stronger weighing in at just 9 stone?

To a point it's a bit moot because we don't know if the limiting factor of a woman competing in F1 might be down to strength because we've never seen a woman compete in F1, but I believe it was a factor for Calderon in F2?

Also to a point it depends on what future direction F1 goes in with the cars, there are times when the drivers complain that they are too easy to drive so it might not be a problem at all?

When you look at the women presently competing in single seaters it may be fair to say that none of them are physical specimens like Tia Clair Toomey.
Tia lifts more than most guys who have been lifting for years. Now there's noway you have to be that strong to drive an F1 car so a women should be OK. Even if they have to train a little harder to get there. F2 is much more physical than F1. It's been said by numerous people.
Well she's probably one of these 1 in a thousand women, we seem to be going down this route that any woman can be as strong as a man and therefore can compete on an equal footing to a man which clearly is not true.

We've seen in the past the likes of Danica Patrick struggle to drive an Indycar on street and road courses because the cars didn't have power steering, why wasn't it a simple matter of her bulking up and getting stronger so it wouldn't be a problem for her, nominally as a professionally sportsman that's what you would do if it was possible.

It's true to say this might not be a problem in F1 but of course it's not to say such things have never been a problem for women like with Calderon in F2, and who's to say they might not make the F1 cars harder to drive in the future, Hamilton already complained last season that the cars were too easy to drive.

It's just one aspect to consider on the back of recent statements by Calderon and JuJu Noda and perhaps it's more poignant with the likes of Calderon who is reasonable big and not small like Patrick and Noda, if it's so easy for a woman to get in shape like Tia then why couldn't Calderon do it?
It's not clearly untrue.

Any healthy young women could train up to be as strong as an average man. I've seen it done. Many, many times over.

You're 1/1000 may apply to the average population walking about. Maybe 1/1000 women would be naturally stronger than the average man without either under going any strength training. That, I agree, would be very rare.

But we aren't talking about that. The question that's important is do women have the potential to train up to being as strong as a male formula 1 driver. The answer to that to me is pretty clearly a yes.

You don't need to be as strong as Tia either. Nothing like that strong I would have thought. I just used her as an example to show what was possible.

Don't forget F2 and Indycar is a hell of a lot more physical than F1.
I think there's two things that you are confusing so I have to say no then yes, can a woman train to be as strong as a male F1 driver, a woman maybe, just any woman I would say no.

I would say that F1 drivers probably train just as hard as let's say tennis players, in that sport the women probably train just as hard as the men so then why are the women weaker?

However to the other part then maybe a yes that women in general can be strong enough to drive a F1 car competitively although we've yet to see one that's good enough to make it to that level, but like I say it's a fine line to draw given the likes of Patrick, Noda and Calderon have struggled physically in other single seater racing cars were their male competitors have not had a problem.
Oh, they would have to train differently that's for sure. Remember Rosberg talking about how he stopped cycling in order to lose muscle in his legs? A woman probably couldn't afford to do something like that.

pokerman
Posts: 35140
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: Female Racing Drivers

Post by pokerman »

DOLOMITE wrote:Interesting insight here on the F1 vs Indy angle : https://www.indycar.com/News/2016/10/10 ... yCar-vs-F1
That's an interesting read, it seems the main area were a woman might struggle in F1 is in the braking, this now reminds me of Crofty who is quite a big guy, at least 16 stone, he was unable to apply sufficient braking force on a set up F1 brake system rig.

Reading further into the article highlights the huge physical demands required of the drivers, this would be of no concern for women drivers?
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