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Grosjean or Hulkenberg for KMag's teammate???
Poll ended at Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:58 am
Romain Grosjean 13%  13%  [ 5 ]
Nico Hulkenberg 87%  87%  [ 34 ]
Total votes : 39
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 Post subject: 2020 driver for Haas F1
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:58 am 
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If you are Guenther Steiner, you have a decision to make. Stay with Romain Grosjean or bet that Nico Hulkenberg will do a better job. What do you do?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:25 am 
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The new t-shirt: "What would Guenther Steiner do?"

Is it better than the "what would Putin do?" or others?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:09 am 
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Mort Canard wrote:
If you are Guenther Steiner, you have a decision to make. Stay with Romain Grosjean or bet that Nico Hulkenberg will do a better job. What do you do?

If I was Steiner, I'd have fired Romain before this year.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:31 am 
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This is very much a cake or death question I think. Hulkenberg.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:07 am 
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If Haas are looking for quality then it's a no brainer. Hulkenberg every day.

Now, if they're looking for comedy.........?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:42 am 
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I voted for Grosjean because Hulk is going to Ferrari. :twisted:

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:58 am 
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Despite Magnussen having a contract, I still feel he is no more likely to be in the team next year than Grosjean. So think there is an equal chance of him getting kicked out really. I mean Grosjean is the one who is more well known to the team, and gets more money because of his sponsors if i am correct. Also if you look at the races they have both finished i think it is 6 - 2 to Grosjean. And some of these by over a full minute. When the car is terrible, Grosjean usually struggles a lot less despite the moaning. But I think it is magnussen that said something worse to the team in Canada when it was him that caused the problems with the car. Calling it the "The worst experience I've ever had in any race car, ever" Then arguing with his team when they answer. Then Steiner having to tell him that enough is enough. That must have really got to him if he had to tell magnussen to shut up.

Magnussen mainly looked better than Grosjean this year because Grosjean has had 6 retirements, and a good deal of them when the car was pretty strong. Magnussen has the slight advantage in qualifying but Grosjean to me has clearly been better on race day on average. Neither have been good though I really am not al all convinced that Magnussen or Grosjean will be in the team next year despite one of them having a contract. I would rename this poll as something like who will be at hass and then have the options for the different combinations.

I'm just saying this as I think some of magnussen's performances this year finishign below russel this year have looked so awful that I don't know why they are more likely to keep him over Grosjean. Even in the races he beat Grosjean, it was only marginal.


Last edited by TheGiantHogweed on Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:59 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
If you are Guenther Steiner, you have a decision to make. Stay with Romain Grosjean or bet that Nico Hulkenberg will do a better job. What do you do?

If I was Steiner, I'd have fired Romain before this year.

As I say in my post above, this year, it looks and sound like he's been getting more annoyed with Magnussen than Grosjean.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:03 am 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Despite Magnussen having a contract, I still feel he is no more likely to be in the team next year than Grosjean. So think there is an equal chance of him getting kicked out really. I mean Grosjean is the one who is more well known to the team, and gets more money because of his sponsors if i am correct. Also if you look at the races they have both finished i think it is 6 - 8 to Grosjean. And some of these by over a full minute. When the car is terrible, Grosjean usually struggles a lot less despite the moaning. But I think it is magnussen that said something worse to the team in Canada when it was him that caused the problems with the car. Calling it the "The worst experience I've ever had in any race car, ever" Then arguing with his team when they answer. Then Steiner having to tell him that enough is enough. That must have really got to him if he had to tell magnussen to shut up.

Magnussen mainly looked better than Grosjean this year because Grosjean has had 6 retirements, and a good deal of them when the car was pretty strong. Magnussen has the slight advantage in qualifying but Grosjean to me has clearly been better on race day on average. Neither have been good though I really am not al all convinced that Magnussen or Grosjean will be in the team next year despite one of them having a contract. I would rename this poll as something like who will be at hass and then have the options for the different combinations.

I'm just saying this as I think some of magnussen's performances this year finishign below russel this year have looked so awful that I don't know why they are more likely to keep him over Grosjean. Even in the races he beat Grosjean, it was only marginal.


Magnussen is outperforming Grosjean season by season.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:05 am 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Despite Magnussen having a contract, I still feel he is no more likely to be in the team next year than Grosjean......


Magnussen's already a done deal for next year. It's between Grosjean & Hulkenberg for the 2nd seat.

https://f1i.com/news/354390-haas-indecisive-over-grosjean-hulkenberg-choice-for-2020.html

Steiner. "It's not like is 'he good, is he not good?' We know Romain pretty well, and I can see what Hulkenberg has done, so it's more like what is fitting better in the bigger scheme of the team going forward than the race-by-race result."

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:05 am 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Despite Magnussen having a contract, I still feel he is no more likely to be in the team next year than Grosjean. So think there is an equal chance of him getting kicked out really. I mean Grosjean is the one who is more well known to the team, and gets more money because of his sponsors if i am correct. Also if you look at the races they have both finished i think it is 6 - 8 to Grosjean. And some of these by over a full minute. When the car is terrible, Grosjean usually struggles a lot less despite the moaning. But I think it is magnussen that said something worse to the team in Canada when it was him that caused the problems with the car. Calling it the "The worst experience I've ever had in any race car, ever" Then arguing with his team when they answer. Then Steiner having to tell him that enough is enough. That must have really got to him if he had to tell magnussen to shut up.

Magnussen mainly looked better than Grosjean this year because Grosjean has had 6 retirements, and a good deal of them when the car was pretty strong. Magnussen has the slight advantage in qualifying but Grosjean to me has clearly been better on race day on average. Neither have been good though I really am not al all convinced that Magnussen or Grosjean will be in the team next year despite one of them having a contract. I would rename this poll as something like who will be at hass and then have the options for the different combinations.

I'm just saying this as I think some of magnussen's performances this year finishign below russel this year have looked so awful that I don't know why they are more likely to keep him over Grosjean. Even in the races he beat Grosjean, it was only marginal.


Magnussen is outperforming Grosjean season by season.

I could do a really long post to describe why, but Magnusson simply isn't outperforming Grosjean this season...


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:10 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Despite Magnussen having a contract, I still feel he is no more likely to be in the team next year than Grosjean......


Magnussen's already a done deal for next year. It's between Grosjean & Hulkenberg for the 2nd seat.

https://f1i.com/news/354390-haas-indecisive-over-grosjean-hulkenberg-choice-for-2020.html

Steiner. "It's not like is 'he good, is he not good?' We know Romain pretty well, and I can see what Hulkenberg has done, so it's more like what is fitting better in the bigger scheme of the team going forward than the race-by-race result."

Surprised i hadn't seen this. But I still fail to see why they are still not wondering about it when the worst performances and results of the year have all been from Magnussen. Admittedly, the best too, but that was when Grosjean had no chance.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:10 am 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Despite Magnussen having a contract, I still feel he is no more likely to be in the team next year than Grosjean. So think there is an equal chance of him getting kicked out really. I mean Grosjean is the one who is more well known to the team, and gets more money because of his sponsors if i am correct. Also if you look at the races they have both finished i think it is 6 - 2 to Grosjean. And some of these by over a full minute. When the car is terrible, Grosjean usually struggles a lot less despite the moaning. But I think it is magnussen that said something worse to the team in Canada when it was him that caused the problems with the car. Calling it the "The worst experience I've ever had in any race car, ever" Then arguing with his team when they answer. Then Steiner having to tell him that enough is enough. That must have really got to him if he had to tell magnussen to shut up.

Magnussen mainly looked better than Grosjean this year because Grosjean has had 6 retirements, and a good deal of them when the car was pretty strong. Magnussen has the slight advantage in qualifying but Grosjean to me has clearly been better on race day on average. Neither have been good though I really am not al all convinced that Magnussen or Grosjean will be in the team next year despite one of them having a contract. I would rename this poll as something like who will be at hass and then have the options for the different combinations.

I'm just saying this as I think some of magnussen's performances this year finishign below russel this year have looked so awful that I don't know why they are more likely to keep him over Grosjean. Even in the races he beat Grosjean, it was only marginal.


They've literally stated it's Grosjean or Hulkenberg.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:24 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Despite Magnussen having a contract, I still feel he is no more likely to be in the team next year than Grosjean. So think there is an equal chance of him getting kicked out really. I mean Grosjean is the one who is more well known to the team, and gets more money because of his sponsors if i am correct. Also if you look at the races they have both finished i think it is 6 - 2 to Grosjean. And some of these by over a full minute. When the car is terrible, Grosjean usually struggles a lot less despite the moaning. But I think it is magnussen that said something worse to the team in Canada when it was him that caused the problems with the car. Calling it the "The worst experience I've ever had in any race car, ever" Then arguing with his team when they answer. Then Steiner having to tell him that enough is enough. That must have really got to him if he had to tell magnussen to shut up.

Magnussen mainly looked better than Grosjean this year because Grosjean has had 6 retirements, and a good deal of them when the car was pretty strong. Magnussen has the slight advantage in qualifying but Grosjean to me has clearly been better on race day on average. Neither have been good though I really am not al all convinced that Magnussen or Grosjean will be in the team next year despite one of them having a contract. I would rename this poll as something like who will be at hass and then have the options for the different combinations.

I'm just saying this as I think some of magnussen's performances this year finishign below russel this year have looked so awful that I don't know why they are more likely to keep him over Grosjean. Even in the races he beat Grosjean, it was only marginal.


They've literally stated it's Grosjean or Hulkenberg.

yea, but this article wasn't listed in the thread until just now, and as i said, I was surprised i hadn't seen it. I believe it now, so sorry for that. I'm still not sure why so many think Magnussen has been betetr than Grosjean though. There isn't what looks to be much of a difference because of the points, but when both have finished, Grosjean has usually been far better.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:47 pm 
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Hulkenberg and it shouldn't really even be a question they have to ask at this point. Hulk is an upgrade on both their current drivers. Perhaps not a massive step forwards but I'd definitely rather have Nico than either Romain or KMag.

And FWIW, I do think Williams would benefit from signing Grosjean as his experience would assist their rebuild more than taking Latifi would, but I guess it ultimately comes down to $$$ for that second seat.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:29 pm 
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Hulkenberg is certainly a more controlled driver than any of the current Haas drivers, but apart from that I don't think he is any faster than the best of them, which I think is Grosjean. If I was (which I'm not...) to make a choice, I'd fire Magnussen (I know, he seems to already have a contract for next year. Go figure - Proof that you can be thick-headed and still seem attractive to some), and keep Grosjean with Hulkenberg.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:48 pm 
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I agree with you 100% Harpo

But at this point I'm inclined to say Neither Grosjean or Hulkenberg would be my choice. While I really like Grosjean and recognize his excellence, he's proven too inconsistent and has become mistake prone
at times which have cost him and the team.

Given their affiliation with Ferrari they should call up Mick Schumacher and let the sponsorship opportunities pour in. Like Verstappen, let him develop and figure things out as the season progresses.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:53 pm 
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Given Haas have had a poor season with a car whose inconsistencies they seem unable to get to grips with, it would seem they most need a driver with good technical feedback skills. Given also Grosjean's propensity to moan and get angry when his car's not right surely he's the one Hulkenberg should replace..


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:01 pm 
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IMO both K Mag and Grosjean are better than Hulk. But Haas will go with Hulk experience and he will be more consistent than Grosjean as well.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:19 pm 
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Mercedes-Benz wrote:
IMO both K Mag and Grosjean are better than Hulk. But Haas will go with Hulk experience and he will be more consistent than Grosjean as well.

That's got to be a pretty rare opinion, so I suppose I can respect you for stating it. Could I ask why?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:38 am 
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It’s not a rare opinion so much as too much has been thought of Hulkenberg since he arrived in F1.
Countless times he did exceedingly well in the early stages of a race and then choked and finished much further than he should or could have. And while he’s consistent, he’s consistently not quick enough. Grosjean has by far shown to have the most/best ability but struggles to do it consistently. Magnussen has shown his speed at times but in spurts, but the Haas’ performance has been off the mark enough to prevent both drivers from showcasing their talents consistently.

I’d say Magnussen is closer to hulk in performance, and due to consistency Hulk would have a better chance of beating him over Grosjean.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:42 am 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
It’s not a rare opinion so much as too much has been thought of Hulkenberg since he arrived in F1.
Countless times he did exceedingly well in the early stages of a race and then choked and finished much further than he should or could have. And while he’s consistent, he’s consistently not quick enough. Grosjean has by far shown to have the most/best ability but struggles to do it consistently. Magnussen has shown his speed at times but in spurts, but the Haas’ performance has been off the mark enough to prevent both drivers from showcasing their talents consistently.

I’d say Magnussen is closer to hulk in performance, and due to consistency Hulk would have a better chance of beating him over Grosjean.

It's hard for me to look past the fact that when Magnussen was teammates with Palmer he was only slightly better, whereas Hulk dominated him to an extent that his career ended that year. Teammate comparisons may not be perfectly reliable, but when they're that one sided I tend to believe them.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:29 am 
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Exediron wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
It’s not a rare opinion so much as too much has been thought of Hulkenberg since he arrived in F1.
Countless times he did exceedingly well in the early stages of a race and then choked and finished much further than he should or could have. And while he’s consistent, he’s consistently not quick enough. Grosjean has by far shown to have the most/best ability but struggles to do it consistently. Magnussen has shown his speed at times but in spurts, but the Haas’ performance has been off the mark enough to prevent both drivers from showcasing their talents consistently.

I’d say Magnussen is closer to hulk in performance, and due to consistency Hulk would have a better chance of beating him over Grosjean.

It's hard for me to look past the fact that when Magnussen was teammates with Palmer he was only slightly better, whereas Hulk dominated him to an extent that his career ended that year. Teammate comparisons may not be perfectly reliable, but when they're that one sided I tend to believe them.


Actually, the Magnussen-Palmer team battle looked rather one-sided as well - until Magnussen declined the one-year extension offer by Renault. Only after that it became more even.

Magnussen is ahead of Grosjean in qualifying and in race results. I find it difficult not to conclude that he is better than Grosjean. People don't like Magnussen; this seems to taint their assessment.

Haas main problems are the fundamental flaws with their cars. Currently, it is midfield in qualifying but last in race trim, slower even than the Williams. If this does not change, no driver change will help.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:10 pm 
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I could not vote because there is no option for Other or None of them

Seb will get the seat if hes smart and takes a pay cut

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:27 pm 
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Pascal Wehrlein approached Haas for a '20 drive and has been turned down, I think Wehrlein would have been a good
signing. It's a no brainer Haas signing Hulkenberg, the Red Bull rumours linking Hulk to the team have gone now after
they swapped drivers....


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:54 pm 
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lord byron wrote:
Seb will get the seat if hes smart and takes a pay cut

I have to ask, are you serious?

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Gotta be hulk so we can get SMB Mate Part II.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:20 am 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Exediron wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
It’s not a rare opinion so much as too much has been thought of Hulkenberg since he arrived in F1.
Countless times he did exceedingly well in the early stages of a race and then choked and finished much further than he should or could have. And while he’s consistent, he’s consistently not quick enough. Grosjean has by far shown to have the most/best ability but struggles to do it consistently. Magnussen has shown his speed at times but in spurts, but the Haas’ performance has been off the mark enough to prevent both drivers from showcasing their talents consistently.

I’d say Magnussen is closer to hulk in performance, and due to consistency Hulk would have a better chance of beating him over Grosjean.

It's hard for me to look past the fact that when Magnussen was teammates with Palmer he was only slightly better, whereas Hulk dominated him to an extent that his career ended that year. Teammate comparisons may not be perfectly reliable, but when they're that one sided I tend to believe them.


Actually, the Magnussen-Palmer team battle looked rather one-sided as well - until Magnussen declined the one-year extension offer by Renault. Only after that it became more even.

Magnussen is ahead of Grosjean in qualifying and in race results. I find it difficult not to conclude that he is better than Grosjean. People don't like Magnussen; this seems to taint their assessment.

Haas main problems are the fundamental flaws with their cars. Currently, it is midfield in qualifying but last in race trim, slower even than the Williams. If this does not change, no driver change will help.


I don't like either but yes dislike Magnussen more. But that is unrelated to the fact I think is is clear that Grosjean has outperformed him, despite having less points and not doing very well himself either.

This is a long post but it should make it clear why I think it is very obvious that Grosjean has been better.


These are the 7 races they have both finished.

China
Spain
monaco
canada
austria
Germany
Belgium

Magnussen has only beaten Grosjean twice.

In China, Magnussen finished 2 places and 7 seconds behind Grosjean, so Grosjean had more pace here. Magnussen was behind Grosjean until pretty much the last lap, where stroll got him.

In Spain, Grosjean was 2 positions ahead by 13 seconds, until the safety car. Admittedly he messes up on his own after this, but yet again, did show he had the better pace this race. Although in the end he finished 3 positions behind Magnussen. He messed up himself, but was unlucky that the safety car undid his advantage over magnussen.

Monaco, OK, Magnussen didn't have the best strategy, but that does not explain that he finished this much lower than Grosjean when Grosjean started 13th compared to 6th for Magnussen. And it was Gasly that prevented Grosjean from very likely getting through in qualifying. Grosjean finished the race up in 9th, magnussen 12th, nearly 30 seconds behind! Blame his strategy on some of it, but not this much given their starting positions.

In Canada, Magnussen was just awful this weekend. A crash in qualifying then complaining to the team that it was the worst car he had ever driven - enough to trigger Steiner to get back at him. Neither him or Grosjean had a good car this wekeend, but he finished 3 positions lower than Grosjean, which may not sound that bad, but the gap was over 65 seconds. That is shockingly bad... And he was even over 10 seconds behind Russell in a Williams.

Austria, another bad day from Magnussen. Similar to Canada, behind Grosjean by 3 positions, and over 60 seconds behind. The fact that Russel finished over 20 seconds ahead of Magnussen really makes me wonder what happened to magnussen these 2 races. Pace wise, he's been far worse than Grosjean at any stage this year.

Germany. They both looked a bit clumsy here, but both got a decent result. I would say they looked very similar pace wise. Grosjean only beat him by 2 seconds this time.

In Belgium, both drivers seemed to have performance swings. Magnussen was terrible for the first half of the race while grosjean actually looked excellent. Magnussen had been overtaken by Grosjean pretty shortly, then a bit later on, he had 5 more drivers go by him in the space of 5 laps. Then Grosjean pitted later on and came out just behind Magnussen and overtook pretty much instantly. When Magnussen pitted, he was last. But from then on, the 2 drivers performances seemed to swing the other way round. Grosjean was dropping back nearly as quite as Magnussen did in the first stage. Magnussen was now catching, but didn't look to be able to get by Grosjean until the blue flags odly enough. Grosjean did admittedly give Hamilton a lot more space than he needed to, and he dropped his speed a bit too much and magnussen took advantage of this. Despite there only being 2 laps left, Grosjean seemed to loose 7 seconds to Magnussen. But then by his team radio, he seemed to want to retire. I think it is a little unreasonable given he had next to no distance to complete, So this race, despite the start, Magnussen beat him here.


But just look back at all this. I do not understand those who think Magnussen has been better than Grosjean this year. I know i don't see anywhere near as much as the team, but I'm unsure why they have retained Magnussen. I don't think either should really be in the team anymore, but if it had to be one of them, Grosjean lookes to on average have significantly better pace and would surely be the better option. I think people are remembering his start to last year in too much detail. He hadn't been anywhere near as bad as last year. Even last season, in the 2nd half, he looked better than Magnussen quite clearly, but didn't perform well at the start when the car was much stronger. That is why i think he lost out on points last year. This year, I am certain the only reason he isn't ahead of Magnussen is because of the fact he's had 6 retirements rather than 2 for Magnussen. And I feel people are assuming that he will have just crashed out anyway in these races based on his reputation. In fact, of the races they have both finished, he's done better than Magnussen in 5 out of 7 of them. Beaten him by a mile in 3 of them. And when Magnussen beat him on the couple of occasions, the margin has not been big and one of them was basically triggered by the safety car.

Grosjean has been outperformed in qualifying, though often only by small margins. But on race day, it is not often the case that we have had long enough to confirm who was better with the ones where either retired. However, Italy I would say Magnussen did better. But a lot of the others where Grosjean retired, either there was little difference between them or Grosjean's problems let to him looking worse than he was.
Even in Britain, I thought the majority blamed magnussen for their double retirement. It was an optimistic move on the outside when he will have had enough speed to get by Grosjean anyway as he got a better start from the safety car.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:19 am 
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I've had enough of Grosjean, put the Hulk in the car.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:47 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Mercedes-Benz wrote:
IMO both K Mag and Grosjean are better than Hulk. But Haas will go with Hulk experience and he will be more consistent than Grosjean as well.

That's got to be a pretty rare opinion, so I suppose I can respect you for stating it. Could I ask why?


I personally do not rate Hulk as some others do :-| I would say drivers like Albon and Norris who are in rookie season are probably not far of Hulk already. Kvyat also is on same level. TBH it is difficult to say as midfield drivers are all competitive and it is matter of opinion. Grosjean has the speed and on his day can look really good. K Mag though drove for Mclaren in rookie season was still good enough to get podium in his first race. He was pretty good last year as well and has scored lots of point for Haas this season too. I will not be surprised if he beats Hulk next year.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:41 am 
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Romain confirmed at Haas

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:13 pm 
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I just cannot fathom this decision.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:19 pm 
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Yellowbin74 wrote:
I just cannot fathom this decision.
Perhaps they've been paid a load of money from Liberty Media to ensure that season 3 of Drive To Survive attracts record viewing figures as fans tune in to watch Guenther Steiner's head finally explode?? :D :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:22 pm 
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Disbelief...

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:42 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Exediron wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
It’s not a rare opinion so much as too much has been thought of Hulkenberg since he arrived in F1.
Countless times he did exceedingly well in the early stages of a race and then choked and finished much further than he should or could have. And while he’s consistent, he’s consistently not quick enough. Grosjean has by far shown to have the most/best ability but struggles to do it consistently. Magnussen has shown his speed at times but in spurts, but the Haas’ performance has been off the mark enough to prevent both drivers from showcasing their talents consistently.

I’d say Magnussen is closer to hulk in performance, and due to consistency Hulk would have a better chance of beating him over Grosjean.

It's hard for me to look past the fact that when Magnussen was teammates with Palmer he was only slightly better, whereas Hulk dominated him to an extent that his career ended that year. Teammate comparisons may not be perfectly reliable, but when they're that one sided I tend to believe them.


Actually, the Magnussen-Palmer team battle looked rather one-sided as well - until Magnussen declined the one-year extension offer by Renault. Only after that it became more even.

Magnussen is ahead of Grosjean in qualifying and in race results. I find it difficult not to conclude that he is better than Grosjean. People don't like Magnussen; this seems to taint their assessment.

Haas main problems are the fundamental flaws with their cars. Currently, it is midfield in qualifying but last in race trim, slower even than the Williams. If this does not change, no driver change will help.


I don't like either but yes dislike Magnussen more. But that is unrelated to the fact I think is is clear that Grosjean has outperformed him, despite having less points and not doing very well himself either.

This is a long post but it should make it clear why I think it is very obvious that Grosjean has been better.


These are the 7 races they have both finished.

China
Spain
monaco
canada
austria
Germany
Belgium

Magnussen has only beaten Grosjean twice.

In China, Magnussen finished 2 places and 7 seconds behind Grosjean, so Grosjean had more pace here. Magnussen was behind Grosjean until pretty much the last lap, where stroll got him.

In Spain, Grosjean was 2 positions ahead by 13 seconds, until the safety car. Admittedly he messes up on his own after this, but yet again, did show he had the better pace this race. Although in the end he finished 3 positions behind Magnussen. He messed up himself, but was unlucky that the safety car undid his advantage over magnussen.

Monaco, OK, Magnussen didn't have the best strategy, but that does not explain that he finished this much lower than Grosjean when Grosjean started 13th compared to 6th for Magnussen. And it was Gasly that prevented Grosjean from very likely getting through in qualifying. Grosjean finished the race up in 9th, magnussen 12th, nearly 30 seconds behind! Blame his strategy on some of it, but not this much given their starting positions.

In Canada, Magnussen was just awful this weekend. A crash in qualifying then complaining to the team that it was the worst car he had ever driven - enough to trigger Steiner to get back at him. Neither him or Grosjean had a good car this wekeend, but he finished 3 positions lower than Grosjean, which may not sound that bad, but the gap was over 65 seconds. That is shockingly bad... And he was even over 10 seconds behind Russell in a Williams.

Austria, another bad day from Magnussen. Similar to Canada, behind Grosjean by 3 positions, and over 60 seconds behind. The fact that Russel finished over 20 seconds ahead of Magnussen really makes me wonder what happened to magnussen these 2 races. Pace wise, he's been far worse than Grosjean at any stage this year.

Germany. They both looked a bit clumsy here, but both got a decent result. I would say they looked very similar pace wise. Grosjean only beat him by 2 seconds this time.

In Belgium, both drivers seemed to have performance swings. Magnussen was terrible for the first half of the race while grosjean actually looked excellent. Magnussen had been overtaken by Grosjean pretty shortly, then a bit later on, he had 5 more drivers go by him in the space of 5 laps. Then Grosjean pitted later on and came out just behind Magnussen and overtook pretty much instantly. When Magnussen pitted, he was last. But from then on, the 2 drivers performances seemed to swing the other way round. Grosjean was dropping back nearly as quite as Magnussen did in the first stage. Magnussen was now catching, but didn't look to be able to get by Grosjean until the blue flags odly enough. Grosjean did admittedly give Hamilton a lot more space than he needed to, and he dropped his speed a bit too much and magnussen took advantage of this. Despite there only being 2 laps left, Grosjean seemed to loose 7 seconds to Magnussen. But then by his team radio, he seemed to want to retire. I think it is a little unreasonable given he had next to no distance to complete, So this race, despite the start, Magnussen beat him here.


But just look back at all this. I do not understand those who think Magnussen has been better than Grosjean this year. I know i don't see anywhere near as much as the team, but I'm unsure why they have retained Magnussen. I don't think either should really be in the team anymore, but if it had to be one of them, Grosjean lookes to on average have significantly better pace and would surely be the better option. I think people are remembering his start to last year in too much detail. He hadn't been anywhere near as bad as last year. Even last season, in the 2nd half, he looked better than Magnussen quite clearly, but didn't perform well at the start when the car was much stronger. That is why i think he lost out on points last year. This year, I am certain the only reason he isn't ahead of Magnussen is because of the fact he's had 6 retirements rather than 2 for Magnussen. And I feel people are assuming that he will have just crashed out anyway in these races based on his reputation. In fact, of the races they have both finished, he's done better than Magnussen in 5 out of 7 of them. Beaten him by a mile in 3 of them. And when Magnussen beat him on the couple of occasions, the margin has not been big and one of them was basically triggered by the safety car.

Grosjean has been outperformed in qualifying, though often only by small margins. But on race day, it is not often the case that we have had long enough to confirm who was better with the ones where either retired. However, Italy I would say Magnussen did better. But a lot of the others where Grosjean retired, either there was little difference between them or Grosjean's problems let to him looking worse than he was.
Even in Britain, I thought the majority blamed magnussen for their double retirement. It was an optimistic move on the outside when he will have had enough speed to get by Grosjean anyway as he got a better start from the safety car.



I think you are forgetting or perhaps are not aware that they weren’t always running the same spec of cars. Grosjean was running the older spec while kmag was running the newer spec and it was found that the older one was faster.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:25 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
This is very much a cake or death question I think. Hulkenberg.

I guess Haas don't like cake then.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:28 pm 
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So it's curtains for Hulkenberg's career. Shame he could never get a podium.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:30 pm 
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froze wrote:
I voted for Grosjean because Hulk is going to Ferrari. :twisted:

Buuuuuaaaahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaa!

No way in hell that will ever happen. He simply hasn't shown enough to merit the chance.
He shows speed & quickness in spurts but has never been able to sustain it for any significant period of time, or even a complete race distance.
If anything, he MIIIIIGHT have a chance of partnering Kimi at Sauber.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:42 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
I've had enough of Grosjean, put the Hulk in the car.

And you haven't had enough of Hulk flailing about in the midfield or doing exceedingly well in races only to plummet backwards like Stephen A. Smith's hairline his entire career?
At least Grosjean produces great results a few times per season.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:43 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
So it's curtains for Hulkenberg's career. Shame he could never get a podium.

Kubica is leaving Williams so maybe he can return to race for them again.

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