Unpopular opinions (2019)

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KingVoid
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Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by KingVoid »

I made a thread similar to this a few years ago and it generated a lot of interesting discussion, so here’s another one. List opinions that are likely unpopular (either on this forum or in the F1 community).

I have a few:

1. I don’t even notice the halo anymore.

2. A point for fastest lap is an excellent rule change.

3. On average, Shanghai circuit has produced the best racing this decade.

4. Sprinklers at Monaco would not be a terrible idea.

5. Vettel would beat Ricciardo if they were teammates in the high downforce (2017-present) cars.

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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by Exediron »

I remember the thread, and I liked it. Here's some of mine (including one that's the same as yours, and one that's quite different):

1. I also don't notice the halo anymore.

2. I'm not at all bothered by the engine noise, and in fact I think the old engines were too loud.

3. Vettel is not a comparable driver to Hamilton, and would fair little better than Bottas if they were teammates.

4. Formula One is a team championship, not a driver championship. Only team stats have true validity, as driver stats are wholly dependent on teams.

5. I'm tired of all three top teams.

I'll probably come up with some more later, but those are good for a start.
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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by Covalent »

I too think the fast lap point has been a success, and I'm not sure I would mind even taking it a step forward, like get an extra point for:
- pole position
- highest top speed
- most overtakes
- fastest pit stop

etc. etc.
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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

- Verstappen would show himself to be faster than Vettel or Hamilton in the same car.

- I've found the recent Netflix F1 series to be a bit poor. Too little focus on the championship and generally very biased, if I hadn't already known that it was the same people who made Senna, I could have guessed.

I'm sure ill think of some more and revisit :twisted:

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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by tim3003 »

Exediron wrote:3. Vettel is not a comparable driver to Hamilton, and would fair little better than Bottas if they were teammates.

4. Formula One is a team championship, not a driver championship. Only team stats have true validity, as driver stats are wholly dependent on teams.



3. Not sure I agree. But I think this season will prove if you're right or not. If Leclerc runs him close is he:
a) fast enough and strong enough to come out on top and push Hamilton all the way?
b) going to lose interest and under-perform like he did vs Ricciardo?

4. A hoary old one this: Yes, but the best drivers invariably end up in the best cars. It's always been like that, so we can compare Hamilton's feats with Merc and Schumacher's with Ferrari. I agree most driver stats are meaningless - eg no of wins, poles, points. But race win % and no of championships are still valid comparisons of the greats. The proof of this is that the tables back up our 'feel' about who is best. (No doubt you'll come up with exceptions to this! :) )

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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by pokerman »

KingVoid wrote:I made a thread similar to this a few years ago and it generated a lot of interesting discussion, so here’s another one. List opinions that are likely unpopular (either on this forum or in the F1 community).

I have a few:

1. I don’t even notice the halo anymore. Same

2. A point for fastest lap is an excellent rule change. Yeah I think it's good

3. On average, Shanghai circuit has produced the best racing this decade. I wouldn't know

4. Sprinklers at Monaco would not be a terrible idea. Yes it would

5. Vettel would beat Ricciardo if they were teammates in the high downforce (2017-present) cars. I wouldn't disagree
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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by pokerman »

Exediron wrote:I remember the thread, and I liked it. Here's some of mine (including one that's the same as yours, and one that's quite different):

1. I also don't notice the halo anymore. Again same

2. I'm not at all bothered by the engine noise, and in fact I think the old engines were too loud. I'd go along with that

3. Vettel is not a comparable driver to Hamilton, and would fair little better than Bottas if they were teammates. For me he sits somewhere in the middle

4. Formula One is a team championship, not a driver championship. Only team stats have true validity, as driver stats are wholly dependent on teams. Yet it's the WDC that's considered more important and no one wants spec cars.

5. I'm tired of all three top teams. So hoping for 2021 with budget caps?

I'll probably come up with some more later, but those are good for a start.
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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by pokerman »

Covalent wrote:I too think the fast lap point has been a success, and I'm not sure I would mind even taking it a step forward, like get an extra point for:
- pole position
- highest top speed
- most overtakes
- fastest pit stop

etc. etc.

I'd go with pole position but that's it.
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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by pokerman »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:- Verstappen would show himself to be faster than Vettel or Hamilton in the same car.

- I've found the recent Netflix F1 series to be a bit poor. Too little focus on the championship and generally very biased, if I hadn't already known that it was the same people who made Senna, I could have guessed.

I'm sure ill think of some more and revisit :twisted:

Can we judge how Ricciardo performs against the Hulk to determine that better?
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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by Frenk Biber »

-I hate how F1 is biased towards the richest teams and I would welcome an American Sports League style system.

-I don't want a Grand Prix in my country (NL) because it is an awful waste of money and both circuits (Zandvoort and Assen) are unfit.

-I wouldn't mind if F1 would blow itself up and stopped to exist; I am very curious what would come in its place.

-Michael Schumacher is the Lance Armstrong of F1.
Last edited by Frenk Biber on Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by tim3003 »

Just thought of one to add myself:

- F1 cars should be less reliable. This would add to the unpredictability and excitement of GPs and championships. (Remember 2016, when Rosberg simply followed Hamilton home in the last 4 races to win the title? :frown: )

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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by kleefton »

Well it seems the fastest lap point is gathering quite a few fans but I still didn’t like it.
Reason is that it took focus away away from a fierce midfield battle that I really wished they spent more time on. Instead we got to see Bottas slowing down almost 2 seconds slower than his previous pace so he could recharge his battery and go for fastest lap. Sorry if I don’t think it added anything to the race at all.

If it had been Lewis or Max getting the fastest lap it would have sat better with me because they were actually racing. And that’s the thing; the fastest lap is almost always going to go to someone that is in no mans land or no longer racing anybody. So no thanks, I think I will pass.

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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by j man »

Most of Hermann Tilke's circuits are very good. Sepang in particular, a massive shame it's gone. I agree with the post above that Shanghai has consistently produced the best racing since its introduction.

The Monaco Grand Prix should be consigned to history.

I would very much favour a budget cap for the teams, assuming it could actually be enforced.

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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

j man wrote:The Monaco Grand Prix should be consigned to history.

I'm not sure this is unpopular, as it's made me think of another one:

I really enjoy the Monaco GP and look forward to it more than most races.

;)

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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by Exediron »

tim3003 wrote:- F1 cars should be less reliable. This would add to the unpredictability and excitement of GPs and championships. (Remember 2016, when Rosberg simply followed Hamilton home in the last 4 races to win the title? :frown: )

But he got himself in that situation due to (other) cars being unreliable... 8)
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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by LBET »

- Bring in a budget cap or open up the formula.
- Bring back refueling
- The current tyre approach is contrived and sucks a bit
- The hybrid era is a failure

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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by Lt. Drebin »

1. Racing would be nicer to watch, if not better, on old circuits like Kyalami, Brands Hatch, old Zeltweg, old Hockenheim...
2. Drivers of the 70's and 80's were better sportsman by far.
3. Huge salaries and income in general spoil the sport.
4. Monaco is outgrown by F1. It's ridiculous to use it.
5. F1 needs less technology and less rules if it want's to be entertaining.
6. F1 fans in the past were not so sensitive as those today, which are in part like some emotional invalids.
7. F1 does not go in the good direction, it is getting less and less attractive, apparently, no matter what is done.
8. Tyre change and mandatory pit stop is not a part of the racing, as long as you really don't need a new tyre.
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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by Blake »

Frenk Biber wrote:
-Michael Schumacher is the Lance Armstrong of F1.

Are you suggesting that Schumacher used performance enhancing drugs???
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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

Blake wrote:
Frenk Biber wrote:
-Michael Schumacher is the Lance Armstrong of F1.

Are you suggesting that Schumacher used performance enhancing drugs???

No he's insinuating the Shumi was the biggest cheater of all time.
He must be salty because Michael whooped up on his favorite drivers, fair and square, so it's easier to call him a cheater. :thumbdown:

1. Giovinazzi will be replaced by Mick Schumacher before the end of the season.
2. Ferrari will claw back performance and be about equal to Mercedes and better than Red Bull
3. Haas will have it's best season yet, possibly finishing on the podium
4. Williams will hire a new Team Principal (Cough!…fire Claire)
5. The Halo is still an ugly eyesore and I notice it 100% of the time
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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by mmi16 »

Covalent wrote:I too think the fast lap point has been a success, and I'm not sure I would mind even taking it a step forward, like get an extra point for:
- pole position
- highest top speed
- most overtakes
- fastest pit stop

etc. etc.


Since F1 is supposedly a Team activity - shortest cumulative pit time for TEAMS that complete race distance. The Team does consist of two cars.
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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by Lt. Drebin »

F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Blake wrote:
Frenk Biber wrote:
-Michael Schumacher is the Lance Armstrong of F1.

Are you suggesting that Schumacher used performance enhancing drugs???

No he's insinuating the Shumi was the biggest cheater of all time.
He must be salty because Michael whooped up on his favorite drivers, fair and square, so it's easier to call him a cheater. :thumbdown:

1. Giovinazzi will be replaced by Mick Schumacher before the end of the season.
2. Ferrari will claw back performance and be about equal to Mercedes and better than Red Bull
3. Haas will have it's best season yet, possibly finishing on the podium
4. Williams will hire a new Team Principal (Cough!…fire Claire)
5. The Halo is still an ugly eyesore and I notice it 100% of the time

I never seen Blake to be "salty" or to have a hidden agenda. To be true, his views were always balanced and fair. You probably just draw wrong conclusions.
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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by mikeyg123 »

Lt. Drebin wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Blake wrote:
Frenk Biber wrote:
-Michael Schumacher is the Lance Armstrong of F1.

Are you suggesting that Schumacher used performance enhancing drugs???

No he's insinuating the Shumi was the biggest cheater of all time.
He must be salty because Michael whooped up on his favorite drivers, fair and square, so it's easier to call him a cheater. :thumbdown:

1. Giovinazzi will be replaced by Mick Schumacher before the end of the season.
2. Ferrari will claw back performance and be about equal to Mercedes and better than Red Bull
3. Haas will have it's best season yet, possibly finishing on the podium
4. Williams will hire a new Team Principal (Cough!…fire Claire)
5. The Halo is still an ugly eyesore and I notice it 100% of the time

I never seen Blake to be "salty" or to have a hidden agenda. To be true, his views were always balanced and fair. You probably just draw wrong conclusions.


Look again and see who's Mercenary's post is directed at.

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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by Frenk Biber »

mikeyg123 wrote:Look again and see who's Mercenary's post is directed at.


That's right, it was directed at me. The thread is called Unpopular Opinions so if somebody doesn't agree with me I'm fine with that.

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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by Blake »

1. I think that the courses are often boring, resulting in often boring races. I'd like to see courses with more elevation changes and better ambiance
2. I agree with the Lt, that Monaco has been outgrown and that there seems no real way for it to be a worthy F1 track anymore
3. The wholesale selling of race dates, often at the expense of long term races, has hurt the sport. No race that can only seat 35,000 fans merits a place on the schedule just because they can line the pockets of FOM.
4. I agree with whoever said that there should be a fixed price to host an F1 race... Monaco pays NOTHING, but gets to host a race at the expense of perhaps a better track.
5. I also think that there needs to be a physical penalty for a cars that far exceed the track limits... ie bring back the sand traps, less paved run-offs.
6. Allow teams to run two different liveries on their cars. This would not only allow more sponsorship monies, but also is a partial solution to the "team orders" that so many object too, as those sponsors on the other cars area going to want to be on top of the podium as well. Would it work? I am not sure, but it might be worth a try. Notice that in Indy Car and NASCAR, multicar teams do not have them all run in the same livery.
7. I'd love to see the end of the hybrids, but realistically accept that I won't.
8. I'd like our American broadcasts to have more American representation on the broadcast team. I hate that I have to listen to the Sky commentary.
9, F1 needs to understand that the FANs are what make the sport work, and quit acting as they are little more than a necessary evil. Many racing series are "fan friendly", so it can be done.
10. A surprise to some... I have no problem with a REASONABLE budget cap. the cap needs to be set at a level that insures F1 retains the elevated position it likes to claim in racing, not be set to bring the top teams down to lower level teams in the unreasonable hope that it will create "equal" racing up and down the grid. Just show me that it can be reasonably enforced and that the fans will be beneficiaries.
11. F1 owes no team its survival! (not a surprise to anyone who has followed my post for a couple of decades)
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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by Blake »

Frenk Biber wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Look again and see who's Mercenary's post is directed at.


That's right, it was directed at me. The thread is called Unpopular Opinions so if somebody doesn't agree with me I'm fine with that.


Michael Schumacher is the Lance Armstrong of F1.


then answer the question. Are you suggesting that Schumi used drugs as Armstrong did, or is it an attempt to discredit Schumi's accomplishments because you see him as a great cheater?

Or.... just praising them for both winning the most treasured titles 7 times ?
;)
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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by Frenk Biber »

Blake wrote:Are you suggesting that Schumi used drugs as Armstrong did, or is it an attempt to discredit Schumi's accomplishments because you see him as a great cheater?

Or.... just praising them for both winning the most treasured titles 7 times ?
;)


I think that however great he was, his legacy is stained by cheating. On a more general note I despise the way how in the era of Schumacher and Armstrong people and media loved how a sport was totally dominated by one person by all means necessary. I hate Tiger Woods as well.

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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by mikeyg123 »

Frenk Biber wrote:
Blake wrote:Are you suggesting that Schumi used drugs as Armstrong did, or is it an attempt to discredit Schumi's accomplishments because you see him as a great cheater?

Or.... just praising them for both winning the most treasured titles 7 times ?
;)


I think that however great he was, his legacy is stained by cheating. On a more general note I despise the way how in the era of Schumacher and Armstrong people and media loved how a sport was totally dominated by one person by all means necessary. I hate Tiger Woods as well.


Certainly the British media at least were brutal to Schumacher. Constant complaints about his domination.

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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by mikeyg123 »

Frenk Biber wrote:
I think that however great he was, his legacy is stained by cheating. On a more general note I despise the way how in the era of Schumacher and Armstrong people and media loved how a sport was totally dominated by one person by all means necessary. I hate Tiger Woods as well.


Certainly the British media at least were brutal to Schumacher. Constant complaints about his domination.

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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by Frenk Biber »

mikeyg123 wrote:Certainly the British media at least were brutal to Schumacher. Constant complaints about his domination.


He was a bit too German wasn't he? :lol: A little more Federerness would have helped.

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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by Espo »

mmi16 wrote:
Covalent wrote:I too think the fast lap point has been a success, and I'm not sure I would mind even taking it a step forward, like get an extra point for:
- pole position
- highest top speed
- most overtakes
- fastest pit stop

etc. etc.


Since F1 is supposedly a Team activity - shortest cumulative pit time for TEAMS that complete race distance. The Team does consist of two cars.



I think it would be cool to add an extra point somehow that can be added to the WCC. I can’t help but think that teams pushing to be fastest in the pits may create the potential for more risks to the mechanics by trying to be faster and faster to secure the extra point.

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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by Blake »

Frenk Biber wrote:
Blake wrote:Are you suggesting that Schumi used drugs as Armstrong did, or is it an attempt to discredit Schumi's accomplishments because you see him as a great cheater?

Or.... just praising them for both winning the most treasured titles 7 times ?
;)


I think that however great he was, his legacy is stained by cheating. On a more general note I despise the way how in the era of Schumacher and Armstrong people and media loved how a sport was totally dominated by one person by all means necessary. I hate Tiger Woods as well.


Are you as concerned by Hamilton's people and media love?
Last edited by Blake on Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:38 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by pokerman »

Frenk Biber wrote:
Blake wrote:Are you suggesting that Schumi used drugs as Armstrong did, or is it an attempt to discredit Schumi's accomplishments because you see him as a great cheater?

Or.... just praising them for both winning the most treasured titles 7 times ?
;)


I think that however great he was, his legacy is stained by cheating. On a more general note I despise the way how in the era of Schumacher and Armstrong people and media loved how a sport was totally dominated by one person by all means necessary. I hate Tiger Woods as well.

I guess some people just don't like to see greatness?
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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by mikeyg123 »

Blake wrote:
Frenk Biber wrote:
Blake wrote:Are you suggesting that Schumi used drugs as Armstrong did, or is it an attempt to discredit Schumi's accomplishments because you see him as a great cheater?

Or.... just praising them for both winning the most treasured titles 7 times ?
;)


I think that however great he was, his legacy is stained by cheating. On a more general note I despise the way how in the era of Schumacher and Armstrong people and media loved how a sport was totally dominated by one person by all means necessary. I hate Tiger Woods as well.


Are you as concerned by Hamilton's people and media love?


Hamilton gets a really hard time in the British media as well. Certainly no love in.

Our media doesn't like it much if you're black, successful and don't know your place.

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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by Blake »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Frenk Biber wrote:
Blake wrote:Are you suggesting that Schumi used drugs as Armstrong did, or is it an attempt to discredit Schumi's accomplishments because you see him as a great cheater?

Or.... just praising them for both winning the most treasured titles 7 times ?
;)


I think that however great he was, his legacy is stained by cheating. On a more general note I despise the way how in the era of Schumacher and Armstrong people and media loved how a sport was totally dominated by one person by all means necessary. I hate Tiger Woods as well.


Are you as concerned by Hamilton's people and media love?


Hamilton gets a really hard time in the British media as well. Certainly no love in.

Our media doesn't like it much if you're black, successful and don't know your place.

Really? I wouldn't know it from the F1 media I have been exposed to. Seriously, Lewis Hamilton isn't extraordinarily popular in Britain?
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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by mikeyg123 »

Blake wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Frenk Biber wrote:
Blake wrote:Are you suggesting that Schumi used drugs as Armstrong did, or is it an attempt to discredit Schumi's accomplishments because you see him as a great cheater?

Or.... just praising them for both winning the most treasured titles 7 times ?
;)


I think that however great he was, his legacy is stained by cheating. On a more general note I despise the way how in the era of Schumacher and Armstrong people and media loved how a sport was totally dominated by one person by all means necessary. I hate Tiger Woods as well.


Are you as concerned by Hamilton's people and media love?


Hamilton gets a really hard time in the British media as well. Certainly no love in.

Our media doesn't like it much if you're black, successful and don't know your place.

Really? I wouldn't know it from the F1 media I have been exposed to. Seriously, Lewis Hamilton isn't extraordinarily popular in Britain?


Very much not. As I said above the media like people like Hamilton to know their place and be pretty much everything Hamilton isn't. We have a habit of tearing down success generally. Plus becoming a tax exile as soon as his first pay check came in didn't help either.

Schumacher, like Hamilton got a dealt with fine by the F1 press. Our lead commentator kept bigging him and Ferrari up so much that Ron Dennis invited him to the Mclaren factory to show that they cared just as much and were just as passionate about winning as Ferrari. Outside of F1 though not so much. Of course for different reasons.

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Post by Blake »

Thanks for the info, mikey. I am surprised.
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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by Zoue »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Frenk Biber wrote:
Blake wrote:Are you suggesting that Schumi used drugs as Armstrong did, or is it an attempt to discredit Schumi's accomplishments because you see him as a great cheater?

Or.... just praising them for both winning the most treasured titles 7 times ?
;)


I think that however great he was, his legacy is stained by cheating. On a more general note I despise the way how in the era of Schumacher and Armstrong people and media loved how a sport was totally dominated by one person by all means necessary. I hate Tiger Woods as well.


Are you as concerned by Hamilton's people and media love?


Hamilton gets a really hard time in the British media as well. Certainly no love in.

Our media doesn't like it much if you're black, successful and don't know your place.

I would disagree with that, quite strongly. I've not seen any evidence that the media has any beef for Hamilton because of his race. On the contrary, when sportsmen/women in the UK are subjected to any kind of racial abuse the media usually whips up a storm in their defence.

The UK generally has a problem with success. It's not a culture that sits comfortably with it. They will cheer the plucky underdog forever but the moment that underdog becomes successful that tends to change and the media quite often looks for ways to bring that person back down. And the British are obsessively proud of their country, combined with a fixation about taxation and people paying "their dues." Whenever someone leaves the UK it's quite often seen as some kind of betrayal, and if that someone goes somewhere that's seen as a tax haven then they may as well eat babies for breakfast as far as the media is concerned.

Having said all that, I don't see Hamilton having that hard a time with the British media. Sure, if he's caught doing something silly, they'll be merciless, but overall the fact he's a Champion means they rally behind him and are generally supportive.

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Mod Aqua
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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by Mod Aqua »

Ok, the Schumacher diversion was already not on topic, but at least related to a point raised. It morphing into being about Hamilton is completely off topic. If you really feel this issue is worthy of discussion please take it to its own topic.

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Frenk Biber
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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by Frenk Biber »

pokerman wrote:
I guess some people just don't like to see greatness?


Hell no, but there is room for more than one. I think Messi is the greatest footballer but I am glad that his position is at least challenged by Ronaldo.
Last edited by Frenk Biber on Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

Siao7
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Re: Unpopular opinions (2019)

Post by Siao7 »

Frenk Biber wrote:
pokerman wrote:I guess some people just don't like to see greatness?


Hell no, but there is room for more than one. I think Messi is the greatest footballer but I am glad that his position is at least challenged by Ronaldo.

Did Ferrari/Schumacher stop someone else being great? I do not get your comment. Just because no one else rose to the occasion, it does not make it Ferrari/Schumacher's problem.

Same with RB domination, Merc, etc.

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