When, and to where, will Ricciardo move? [A: 2019, Renault]

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Lotus49
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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by Lotus49 »

Rockie wrote:F1 is a funny sport though and together with it's fans.

So everyone wanting Ricciardo to go Ferrari is basing their opinion on believing '14 will repeat itself, ignoring the fact that since '14 Ricciardo has not had such performance again, considering right now can't live with Max since he's ironed out his weakness.

Also the '14 Vettel is not the same guy since then.


Dan performed just as good in 2016 and large parts of 2017. And who's to say Max isn't just better than both at this point as well.

More to the point Kimi's had enough chances in top cars without even winning a race lately so it's normal if people want to see a more competitive driver in there considering there's only 4 top seats.
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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by mcdo »

Rockie wrote:F1 is a funny sport though and together with it's fans.

So everyone wanting Ricciardo to go Ferrari is basing their opinion on believing '14 will repeat itself, ignoring the fact that since '14 Ricciardo has not had such performance again, considering right now can't live with Max since he's ironed out his weakness.

Also the '14 Vettel is not the same guy since then.

Dan was the best driver in 2016 too. 2014 was no one-off
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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

mcdo wrote:
Rockie wrote:F1 is a funny sport though and together with it's fans.

So everyone wanting Ricciardo to go Ferrari is basing their opinion on believing '14 will repeat itself, ignoring the fact that since '14 Ricciardo has not had such performance again, considering right now can't live with Max since he's ironed out his weakness.

Also the '14 Vettel is not the same guy since then.

Dan was the best driver in 2016 too. 2014 was no one-off

I can't remember 2016 but I do remember he was brilliant in 2015 too but the car was a dog so he doesn't have much to show for it in terms of results.

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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by Rockie »

Lotus49 wrote:
Rockie wrote:F1 is a funny sport though and together with it's fans.

So everyone wanting Ricciardo to go Ferrari is basing their opinion on believing '14 will repeat itself, ignoring the fact that since '14 Ricciardo has not had such performance again, considering right now can't live with Max since he's ironed out his weakness.

Also the '14 Vettel is not the same guy since then.


Dan performed just as good in 2016 and large parts of 2017. And who's to say Max isn't just better than both at this point as well.

More to the point Kimi's had enough chances in top cars without even winning a race lately so it's normal if people want to see a more competitive driver in there considering there's only 4 top seats.


Dan has been shown the way by Max, outside of impetuousness and reliability Max has him beat.

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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by mcdo »

Rockie wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Rockie wrote:F1 is a funny sport though and together with it's fans.

So everyone wanting Ricciardo to go Ferrari is basing their opinion on believing '14 will repeat itself, ignoring the fact that since '14 Ricciardo has not had such performance again, considering right now can't live with Max since he's ironed out his weakness.

Also the '14 Vettel is not the same guy since then.


Dan performed just as good in 2016 and large parts of 2017. And who's to say Max isn't just better than both at this point as well.

More to the point Kimi's had enough chances in top cars without even winning a race lately so it's normal if people want to see a more competitive driver in there considering there's only 4 top seats.


Dan has been shown the way by Max, outside of impetuousness and reliability Max has him beat.

Get real. The reliability of Dan's car has been much worse than Max's
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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by Rockie »

mcdo wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Rockie wrote:F1 is a funny sport though and together with it's fans.

So everyone wanting Ricciardo to go Ferrari is basing their opinion on believing '14 will repeat itself, ignoring the fact that since '14 Ricciardo has not had such performance again, considering right now can't live with Max since he's ironed out his weakness.

Also the '14 Vettel is not the same guy since then.


Dan performed just as good in 2016 and large parts of 2017. And who's to say Max isn't just better than both at this point as well.

More to the point Kimi's had enough chances in top cars without even winning a race lately so it's normal if people want to see a more competitive driver in there considering there's only 4 top seats.


Dan has been shown the way by Max, outside of impetuousness and reliability Max has him beat.

Get real. The reliability of Dan's car has been much worse than Max's


Huh?

In what year has Max enjoyed better reliability than Daniel?

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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by mcdo »

Rockie wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Rockie wrote:F1 is a funny sport though and together with it's fans.

So everyone wanting Ricciardo to go Ferrari is basing their opinion on believing '14 will repeat itself, ignoring the fact that since '14 Ricciardo has not had such performance again, considering right now can't live with Max since he's ironed out his weakness.

Also the '14 Vettel is not the same guy since then.


Dan performed just as good in 2016 and large parts of 2017. And who's to say Max isn't just better than both at this point as well.

More to the point Kimi's had enough chances in top cars without even winning a race lately so it's normal if people want to see a more competitive driver in there considering there's only 4 top seats.


Dan has been shown the way by Max, outside of impetuousness and reliability Max has him beat.

Get real. The reliability of Dan's car has been much worse than Max's


Huh?

In what year has Max enjoyed better reliability than Daniel?

This year. If reliability was equal Max would be nowhere near Dan in the standings
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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by mikeyg123 »

mcdo wrote:Get real. The reliability of Dan's car has been much worse than Max's


Huh?

In what year has Max enjoyed better reliability than Daniel?[/quote]
This year. If reliability was equal Max would be nowhere near Dan in the standings[/quote]

Ricciardo's had only 1 more mechanical retirement....

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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by mcdo »

mikeyg123 wrote:
mcdo wrote:Get real. The reliability of Dan's car has been much worse than Max's


Huh?

In what year has Max enjoyed better reliability than Daniel?

This year. If reliability was equal Max would be nowhere near Dan in the standings[/quote]

Ricciardo's had only 1 more mechanical retirement....[/quote]
Dan has had 3 vs Max's 1. Are you counting Bahrain where Max's retirement was brought on by his clattering into Hamilton?

Dan has lost 25 or more points to Max due to his extra DNF's. And now he's already clocking up the grid penalties
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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by mikeyg123 »

mcdo wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
mcdo wrote:Get real. The reliability of Dan's car has been much worse than Max's


Huh?

In what year has Max enjoyed better reliability than Daniel?

This year. If reliability was equal Max would be nowhere near Dan in the standings


Ricciardo's had only 1 more mechanical retirement....[/quote]
Dan has had 3 vs Max's 1. Are you counting Bahrain where Max's retirement was brought on by his clattering into Hamilton?

Dan has lost 25 or more points to Max due to his extra DNF's. And now he's already clocking up the grid penalties[/quote]

Wasn't it a diff failure Verstappen suffered in Bahrain? I may be wrong. Even if it's 25 points that would put Verstappen 26 points down. That's not what I would call "nowhere near".

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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by Rockie »

mcdo wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
mcdo wrote:Get real. The reliability of Dan's car has been much worse than Max's


Huh?

In what year has Max enjoyed better reliability than Daniel?

This year. If reliability was equal Max would be nowhere near Dan in the standings


Ricciardo's had only 1 more mechanical retirement....[/quote]
Dan has had 3 vs Max's 1. Are you counting Bahrain where Max's retirement was brought on by his clattering into Hamilton?

Dan has lost 25 or more points to Max due to his extra DNF's. And now he's already clocking up the grid penalties[/quote]

How do we consider reliability in an ongoing season, guess there is a reason for using that.

We were talking about previous seasons, also I mentioned the impetuousness of Max outside of his crashes when both finish without any DNF or crash Max has him beat.

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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by mcdo »

mikeyg123 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
mcdo wrote:Get real. The reliability of Dan's car has been much worse than Max's


Huh?

In what year has Max enjoyed better reliability than Daniel?

This year. If reliability was equal Max would be nowhere near Dan in the standings


Ricciardo's had only 1 more mechanical retirement....

Dan has had 3 vs Max's 1. Are you counting Bahrain where Max's retirement was brought on by his clattering into Hamilton?

Dan has lost 25 or more points to Max due to his extra DNF's. And now he's already clocking up the grid penalties[/quote]

Wasn't it a diff failure Verstappen suffered in Bahrain? I may be wrong. Even if it's 25 points that would put Verstappen 26 points down. That's not what I would call "nowhere near".[/quote]
It happened because of running around on the flat tyre after clashing with Hamilton
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13535 ... -ricciardo

In the natural order of things these two are fighting for 4ths, 5ths and the odd podium. Typically near one another on the points board if the other car doesn't break. 25+ points is big when you're usually just off the podium
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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by mikeyg123 »

mcdo wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
mcdo wrote:Get real. The reliability of Dan's car has been much worse than Max's


Huh?

In what year has Max enjoyed better reliability than Daniel?

This year. If reliability was equal Max would be nowhere near Dan in the standings


Ricciardo's had only 1 more mechanical retirement....

Dan has had 3 vs Max's 1. Are you counting Bahrain where Max's retirement was brought on by his clattering into Hamilton?

Dan has lost 25 or more points to Max due to his extra DNF's. And now he's already clocking up the grid penalties


Wasn't it a diff failure Verstappen suffered in Bahrain? I may be wrong. Even if it's 25 points that would put Verstappen 26 points down. That's not what I would call "nowhere near".[/quote]
It happened because of running around on the flat tyre after clashing with Hamilton
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13535 ... -ricciardo

In the natural order of things these two are fighting for 4ths, 5ths and the odd podium. Typically near one another on the points board if the other car doesn't break. 25+ points is big when you're usually just off the podium[/quote]

Fair enough. IMO you've over exaggerated what the points gap would be or it's hardly a major issue.

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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by Lotus49 »

Not going to quote because it's a mess but Dan's had way worse reliability this year. Not just the terminal failures and yeah Bahrain was self inflicted by Max, but he lost his K in Monaco as well which is why he needed a grid drop. Now we've got another grid drop in Hungary probably.

Max has his number currently by a tenth or so in one lap pace but race pace is still back and forth and Dan's more consistent although I think Max has got the point about to finish first, first you have to finish since Monaco and is looking more composed so it'll be tough for Dan.

But I think that says more positive things about Max than it does negatively about Dan.
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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by Rockie »

Lotus49 wrote:Not going to quote because it's a mess but Dan's had way worse reliability this year. Not just the terminal failures and yeah Bahrain was self inflicted by Max, but he lost his K in Monaco as well which is why he needed a grid drop. Now we've got another grid drop in Hungary probably.

Max has his number currently by a tenth or so in one lap pace but race pace is still back and forth and Dan's more consistent although I think Max has got the point about to finish first, first you have to finish since Monaco and is looking more composed so it'll be tough for Dan.

But I think that says more positive things about Max than it does negatively about Dan.


Reliability which does not cost you points, can't be used in this context.

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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by Lotus49 »

Rockie wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:Not going to quote because it's a mess but Dan's had way worse reliability this year. Not just the terminal failures and yeah Bahrain was self inflicted by Max, but he lost his K in Monaco as well which is why he needed a grid drop. Now we've got another grid drop in Hungary probably.

Max has his number currently by a tenth or so in one lap pace but race pace is still back and forth and Dan's more consistent although I think Max has got the point about to finish first, first you have to finish since Monaco and is looking more composed so it'll be tough for Dan.

But I think that says more positive things about Max than it does negatively about Dan.


Reliability which does not cost you points, can't be used in this context.


How does taking grid drops not cost you points?
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by Rockie »

Lotus49 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:Not going to quote because it's a mess but Dan's had way worse reliability this year. Not just the terminal failures and yeah Bahrain was self inflicted by Max, but he lost his K in Monaco as well which is why he needed a grid drop. Now we've got another grid drop in Hungary probably.

Max has his number currently by a tenth or so in one lap pace but race pace is still back and forth and Dan's more consistent although I think Max has got the point about to finish first, first you have to finish since Monaco and is looking more composed so it'll be tough for Dan.

But I think that says more positive things about Max than it does negatively about Dan.


Reliability which does not cost you points, can't be used in this context.


How does taking grid drops not cost you points?


In that race he lost no points.

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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by Lotus49 »

Rockie wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:Not going to quote because it's a mess but Dan's had way worse reliability this year. Not just the terminal failures and yeah Bahrain was self inflicted by Max, but he lost his K in Monaco as well which is why he needed a grid drop. Now we've got another grid drop in Hungary probably.

Max has his number currently by a tenth or so in one lap pace but race pace is still back and forth and Dan's more consistent although I think Max has got the point about to finish first, first you have to finish since Monaco and is looking more composed so it'll be tough for Dan.

But I think that says more positive things about Max than it does negatively about Dan.


Reliability which does not cost you points, can't be used in this context.


How does taking grid drops not cost you points?


In that race he lost no points.


So? As a consequence of the failure of that race he needed a grid drop here and will now take 2 in a row most likely.

The turbo failure in China FP3 didn't cost him anything yet but that will too when he runs out as for whatever reason RB only replaced the K,CE and ES in Germany. No idea why they didn't take an ICE,Turbo or H.
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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Lotus49 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:Not going to quote because it's a mess but Dan's had way worse reliability this year. Not just the terminal failures and yeah Bahrain was self inflicted by Max, but he lost his K in Monaco as well which is why he needed a grid drop. Now we've got another grid drop in Hungary probably.

Max has his number currently by a tenth or so in one lap pace but race pace is still back and forth and Dan's more consistent although I think Max has got the point about to finish first, first you have to finish since Monaco and is looking more composed so it'll be tough for Dan.

But I think that says more positive things about Max than it does negatively about Dan.


Reliability which does not cost you points, can't be used in this context.


How does taking grid drops not cost you points?


If you retire from the race?

In the context of this conversation poor reliability that costs nothing isn't relevant.

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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

I think it is obvious that Verstappen is quicker than Ricciardo. As soon and if he manages to iron out his mistakes, he will be better than Ricciardo. Both are quicker than Vettel - and in terms of being mistake-prone, only Massa beats Vettel ....

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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by mcdo »

mikeyg123 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Ricciardo's had only 1 more mechanical retirement....

Dan has had 3 vs Max's 1. Are you counting Bahrain where Max's retirement was brought on by his clattering into Hamilton?

Dan has lost 25 or more points to Max due to his extra DNF's. And now he's already clocking up the grid penalties


Wasn't it a diff failure Verstappen suffered in Bahrain? I may be wrong. Even if it's 25 points that would put Verstappen 26 points down. That's not what I would call "nowhere near".

It happened because of running around on the flat tyre after clashing with Hamilton
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13535 ... -ricciardo

In the natural order of things these two are fighting for 4ths, 5ths and the odd podium. Typically near one another on the points board if the other car doesn't break. 25+ points is big when you're usually just off the podium


Fair enough. IMO you've over exaggerated what the points gap would be or it's hardly a major issue.

On the days Ricciardo grabbed 25 points, Max finished so far back (but still in the points) due to himself. On the day Max claimed 25 points, Dan (who was on for 4th) had a failure. It's hard not to feel that he's really been getting the raw deal when it comes to reliability this year

And the German GP weekend was a joke. Dan may as well have stayed at home. There's a chance it'll ruin his Hungarian weekend too

I think Dan has lost 37 points due to mechanical issues. Max has lost 10 (if indeed he would have held Dan off in Silverstone). That 27 points is about a quarter of their current total points score, not exactly small change

Saying all that, there's no denying Max has been in the unreliable Red Bull previously (just last year if I'm remembering right)
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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by Toby. »

On top of the retirements for Ricciardo already mentioned from this year, he had a haul of rotten luck at the back end of last year too. The two finished on remarkably close points because Max made 57 points in races Ricciardo suffered mechanical failures (Abu Dhabi - Hydraulics; Mexico - Turbo; USA - Engine). In fact since Hungary last year Ricciardo has retired eight times - six of those were mechanical retirements, and two were incidents in which Verstappen was largely agreed as at fault (Hungary and Baku). That doesn't include Monaco, where in any other circumstance he would have almost certainly been forced to retire the car. In that time Verstappen has retired four times, twice owing to crashes which the majority agreed he was at fault (Bahrain and Baku this year), once in an incident largely out of his control (Singapore 2017) and one mechanical failure.
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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by oz_karter »

I think we’ve had enough of the Ricciardo vs. Verstappen swimming pool contest, there’s another thread out there for that.

It seems inevitable that Ricciardo will sign for Red Bull this week and stay for another two years.

Could there be a last minute surprise? Could the speculation that Ferrari want a cheaper driver be a red herring?

Is there another option?

Red Bull are a strong team and if a red or silver car aren’t available, they look like holding the next best seat. Honda are a risk - they could build a winning engine or they could build a grenade.

Verstappen are Red Bull’s golden child and reliability is a big concern.

Could he go elsewhere or is it sewn up?

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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by Mod Titanium »

moved ham vs vet under pressure discussion here
http://forum.planet-f1.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14886&start=1200
- Mod Team

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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by Lotus49 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:Not going to quote because it's a mess but Dan's had way worse reliability this year. Not just the terminal failures and yeah Bahrain was self inflicted by Max, but he lost his K in Monaco as well which is why he needed a grid drop. Now we've got another grid drop in Hungary probably.

Max has his number currently by a tenth or so in one lap pace but race pace is still back and forth and Dan's more consistent although I think Max has got the point about to finish first, first you have to finish since Monaco and is looking more composed so it'll be tough for Dan.

But I think that says more positive things about Max than it does negatively about Dan.


Reliability which does not cost you points, can't be used in this context.


How does taking grid drops not cost you points?


If you retire from the race?

In the context of this conversation poor reliability that costs nothing isn't relevant.


But it will cost him if he ever gets a car that stops failing. He'll need to take more grid drops now because of the failure in the race he already took a grid drop in.

I'm not really interested in the semantics argument about how many points constitutes the nowhere near mcdo said, I'm pointing out the lopsided reliability and the cost in terms of parts and grid drops in the future as well as already which is why the K failure in Monaco is entirely relevant.
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-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Lotus49 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:Not going to quote because it's a mess but Dan's had way worse reliability this year. Not just the terminal failures and yeah Bahrain was self inflicted by Max, but he lost his K in Monaco as well which is why he needed a grid drop. Now we've got another grid drop in Hungary probably.

Max has his number currently by a tenth or so in one lap pace but race pace is still back and forth and Dan's more consistent although I think Max has got the point about to finish first, first you have to finish since Monaco and is looking more composed so it'll be tough for Dan.

But I think that says more positive things about Max than it does negatively about Dan.


Reliability which does not cost you points, can't be used in this context.


How does taking grid drops not cost you points?


If you retire from the race?

In the context of this conversation poor reliability that costs nothing isn't relevant.


But it will cost him if he ever gets a car that stops failing. He'll need to take more grid drops now because of the failure in the race he already took a grid drop in.

I'm not really interested in the semantics argument about how many points constitutes the nowhere near mcdo said, I'm pointing out the lopsided reliability and the cost in terms of parts and grid drops in the future as well as already which is why the K failure in Monaco is entirely relevant.



But the conversation was entirely about points dropped. I'm not arguing Ricciardo hasn't had more misfortune or won't drop further points in the future due to it but that's irrelevant when looking at how the points stand today.

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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by Lotus49 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Reliability which does not cost you points, can't be used in this context.


How does taking grid drops not cost you points?


If you retire from the race?

In the context of this conversation poor reliability that costs nothing isn't relevant.


But it will cost him if he ever gets a car that stops failing. He'll need to take more grid drops now because of the failure in the race he already took a grid drop in.

I'm not really interested in the semantics argument about how many points constitutes the nowhere near mcdo said, I'm pointing out the lopsided reliability and the cost in terms of parts and grid drops in the future as well as already which is why the K failure in Monaco is entirely relevant.



But the conversation was entirely about points dropped. I'm not arguing Ricciardo hasn't had more misfortune or won't drop further points in the future due to it but that's irrelevant when looking at how the points stand today.


I was just talking about the reliability bit of the discussion and future cost in terms of drops.
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by iano »

With unreliability in the mix, the relative performances of Verstappen and Ricciardo are in truth hard to read at this point. Max had a run of mistakes where there was probably a wavering of confidence.. but he is past that now. They are both great drivers, and the both their relative strengths.

However if you are Red Bull, you already have Max secured in contract and you have committed to spend the big $ on him. Do you really honestly need Ricciardo as well? Why not back Max as the lead driver and promote Gasly?

Unless you give Ricciardo a similar contract to Max it is going to create disunity and a degree of negative culture. No such pressure with Gasly, and he will be absolutely happy just to get the top drive.

Surely Red Bull have to be considering all of this.

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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by oz_karter »

Any theories on why the negotiations are taking so long?

Both Red Bull and Ricciardo stated they wanted this sewn up before the summer break.

After Hamilton and Bottas were confirmed re-signing at Mercedes, it was expected that Ricciardo's contract at Red Bull would fall in to place quickly, but weeks later it's still not sorted.

Is it about money? Ricciardo looked to have leverage with so many open seats and a large (and public) offer from McLaren, but with his options closed at Mercedes and reportedly closed at Ferrari, are Red Bull turning the screws?

Or is the door at Ferrari not as closed as we are lead to believe? Ferrari like to make announcements at Monza, so are things just being strung out until then?

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Exediron
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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by Exediron »

oz_karter wrote:Any theories on why the negotiations are taking so long?

Both Red Bull and Ricciardo stated they wanted this sewn up before the summer break.

After Hamilton and Bottas were confirmed re-signing at Mercedes, it was expected that Ricciardo's contract at Red Bull would fall in to place quickly, but weeks later it's still not sorted.

Is it about money? Ricciardo looked to have leverage with so many open seats and a large (and public) offer from McLaren, but with his options closed at Mercedes and reportedly closed at Ferrari, are Red Bull turning the screws?

Or is the door at Ferrari not as closed as we are lead to believe? Ferrari like to make announcements at Monza, so are things just being strung out until then?

I think it's money, pure and simple. He wants an amount at least close to what Max gets so he doesn't look like a #2 driver, and Red Bull doesn't want to give it to him.
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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by Jenson's Understeer »

I've been saying for a while that I thought Ricciardo was realistically picking between staying with Red Bull or switching to Renault, a move that would make sense if Red Bull themselves switched to Honda and he had more faith in Renault than Honda. And even then, there is no 'obvious' choice in the sense that picking either option has its risks, and could yet spectacularly backfire.
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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by Verstappen33 »

Fits perfectly.

Renault is now the fourth team on the grid. If they can continue to improve the engine they might be the third team next year when Red Bull starts with Honda.

So that puts Ricciardo above Red Bull.

Hulkenberg is a good driver but I feel Ricciardo knows he can beat him. Don't forger that not that long ago Ricciardo was seen as the guy who beat Vettel and was a quali beast.

Max came and won his very first race mid season in a car that was build for Kvyat. With a fair bit of luck of course but impressive to say the least.

Marko is Max his greatest fan. Dieter stating that his dream and wish is to win the title with Max is nothing shy of admiration.

Overall:
-Max beats Ricciardo now at qualifying.
-Max beats Ricciardo in the race when there is so problem with both the cars
-Ricciardo's market sharr has dropped a bit because of this
-He is with Red Bull from the beginning, a new team brings new chances and new positive (not pro Max) energy.
-He is not getting younger. Bold moves like this worked out for Hanilton in the past, that's what he has reffered to.


I see this happening. I hope for Ricciardo that he does. I think it will be better for him. For Max and the team i hope he stays because they work good together, for now, and he is a great guy.


Who will join Max at Red Bull...

The answer you've all been waiting for is a bit out of the box but would fit perfectly:

Kimi !


Kimi is great. Doesn't moan about stuff. Works great when Honda needs some good feedback. Experienced.
Something I would not trust to Gastly. It would be too soon for him. Sainz and Max won't work. Red Bull also see's that. Kimi is cheap also. The guy wants to race. Red Bull would do him good as long as they give him all the ice cream he wants. :)

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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by ALESI »

I think this is a good move for Ricciardo. Clearly for whatever reason Max has been chosen as the next F1 Megastar and you do not want to be in a team with someone like that. Plus, I'm not convinced the Honda engine is going to be the one to deliver a WDC for either him or Max... plus Renault is a works team at the end of the day and we all remember how crazy Hamilton looked when he left McLaren for Merc. That didn't work out too bad.
Plus the rumours of $20m can't hurt, if he can't get in the right car to win he might as well get rich(er).
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ALESI
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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by ALESI »

iano wrote:With unreliability in the mix, the relative performances of Verstappen and Ricciardo are in truth hard to read at this point. Max had a run of mistakes where there was probably a wavering of confidence.. but he is past that now. They are both great drivers, and the both their relative strengths.

However if you are Red Bull, you already have Max secured in contract and you have committed to spend the big $ on him. Do you really honestly need Ricciardo as well? Why not back Max as the lead driver and promote Gasly?

Unless you give Ricciardo a similar contract to Max it is going to create disunity and a degree of negative culture. No such pressure with Gasly, and he will be absolutely happy just to get the top drive.

Surely Red Bull have to be considering all of this.


How much is Max getting then? I thought he was on less than Ric?
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Verstappen33
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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by Verstappen33 »

I believe 20 mil.
Since he resigned his contract, a new salary has been agreed to. The previous contract stated a lesser salary than Ricciardo's.

But come one guys, Kimi! I would love to see that happening. Max and Kimi at Red Bull.

Yellowbin74
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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by Yellowbin74 »

Wow, did not see that one coming..
Should I grow a beard?

Rockie
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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by Rockie »

So does this mean Sainz back to Redbull or he's going to Mclaren.

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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by JN23 »

Rockie wrote:So does this mean Sainz back to Redbull or he's going to Mclaren.


I reckon they'll put Gasly in the Red Bull and Sainz will have to go elsewhere. Probably Mclaren as you say.

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Re: when, and to where, will the Ricciardo move take place?

Post by amnut »

A good move for Ricciardo but I would like to see Norris in a Mclaren next year.

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