sandman1347 wrote: lamo wrote: sandman1347 wrote: kleefton wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:It's only because alot of circuits which benefit Mercedes have come after Monaco. Finishing results have looked like 2011 but the Redbull was ridicolous. How often does the Mercedes finish way up he road from Ferrari? Hardly ever. Ferrari could have won in Austria and Spa so they wasn't exactly dominant for Mercedes.
Not being able to overtake and one stop races help the leader into turn 1. One stop races are very boring.
Problem is no one will know about Monza now, both cars running different races and people will just say the Mercedes was dominant because it will most likely win. Look at Spa and most reports say the Ferrari would have won if the SC didn't come out, Far from expected.
Bang on! I dont see how anyone can compare this "dominance" to the 2011 redbull. But some people do have their agendas
. Lets see what it looks like after Singapore.
That's all it is. Mostly it's people in the forum serving their own agendas (which have little to do with the teams and everything to do with the drivers). It's actually completely transparent when you look at who's pushing that agenda...
I am a Hamilton fan and I think so far the 2017 Mercedes is comparable to the 2011 Red Bull. Both are very strong in qualifying, both great in the race. The biggest difference being the Mercedes is harder to get dialled in every weekend but that seems to have improved.
At this point in the year, the Red Bull had only won 6 of the first 11 races. They ended up winning 12 out of 19 races, Mercedes are currently on 8 out of 13 - it depends how the rest of the year pans out but Mercedes could end up at a similar level to that car. Mclaren was the better car for about 5 or 6 races in 2011. The 2017 Ferrari could end up being the better car for a similar number this year. I think that Red Bull was the best package for approximately 13 out of 19 races in 2011.
At the moment, I see Mercedes being the better package this year about 8-5 up over Ferrari. It depends how these last 7 races go, it will likely be 8-6 after this weekend. Then the last 6 races, if they favour Mercedes you end up with something like 13-7 and its 2011 Red Bull territory. If Ferrari have good form then maybe it ends up more like 11-9 which is a very close season.
Throw in reliability (Mercedes already lost 1 win due to part failure) and the Ferrari can still end the season as the best overall package or at least equal.
I always respect your views but I think you are mis-remembering things a bit. In 2011 The McLaren was the second best car but there was a very clear and distinct edge to Red Bull. The margin wasn't huge but it was consistently in Red Bull's favor with only few exceptions. This year the cars are basically even to this point (with the notable exception of qualifying where Mercedes generally have an edge). In several races the Ferrari has been noticeably faster. Even in qualifying they have locked out the front row multiple times already. The 2011 Red Bull set 18 pole positions in 19 races and was generally running off into the distance half the time. Only Webber's KERS failures and start issues (the two are related) alter the perception of that year.
Don't make the mistake of assuming that similar results mean similar car matchup.
Those are all good and valid points.
But I think the Mercedes top form this year has been around the same as Red Bull's top form in 2011 in the following races (i.e. about 0.4+ a lap advantage in race and qualifying)
Baku, Silverstone, Canada and Monza. 4/13. 31%
The 2011 Red Bull was probably in the 50-60% range of having this kind of untouchable advantage. So, whilst at this stage the Red Bull was a better car than the 2017 Mercedes, there is still enough of the season left for Mercedes to achieve a similar level of this dominance.
Certainly Monaco on wards has been very 2011 Red Bull'esque - 5 wins in 7 for Mercedes, should be 6 without the head rest issue and only getting beaten on a track tailored to there rival. This run of 7 races also included all 4 of there strongest performances this year.
A long way to go to see how it ends up, who would have guessed the 2013 Red Bull would end up being the greatest with 9 races to go in 2013.