Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

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Adaemus
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by Adaemus »

He had to leave Mclaren...He'd burnt enough bridges both in his own head and externally within the team that staying wasn't an option.

Ferrari weren't going to challenge Alonso, Red Bull and Lotus were happy with their lineups (or in the latter case they maybe couldn't afford two top tier drivers)...who's left? Mercedes.

Frankly, the fact he got a pay rise out of it was a bonus. Add to that he would be teaming up with one of his friends in the paddock, finding a more friendly working environment and working under Ross Brawn (who he no doubt admired, as any F1 fan in the early 00s did) and you have the end result we've arrived at today.
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ATM2
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by ATM2 »

As far as I saw it, the bridges were burnt from his side...the team did do some nasty race goof-ups, but that was not intentional, Button got his share too, and I believe they would still wanted him on board.

However, your post makes a lot of sense at this time. It all depends on how Mercedes will fare, and what will be Hamilton's reactions and expectations in regards to that. I still believe he's got that spark I was saying earlier, I just can't see Hamilton chilling down and cruising through F1 just for the fun of it.

A lot has been said about Hammy, let's talk a bit about his team-mate, Rosberg. where does he stand in all this? What would you consider the team's approach towards him? will we have a clear no 1 and no 2 driver, the way Ferrari does it - in your face? or a RBR tragi-comedia, all our drivers are equal until the season starts? or an equal status, Macca style? difficult to say with Ross Brawn...
Last edited by ATM2 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JBee
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by JBee »

Success & wins are not everything in live. McLaren is not the greatest thing on earth there is a live outside F1 & McLaren
Maybe Hamilton realised that.[/quote]

you think Vettel and Alonso think that?[/quote]
I'm sure Vettel & Alonso think McLaren is not the greatest thing on earth. thats not what I said! I asked if you thought they think that winning isnt everything?
Whatelse they think, I don't care
Vettel & Alonso are not Hamilton, everyone is different agreed
Hamilton has lived a different live than them[/quote] agreed
_______________________________________________________________________________________

Lets look sharp people, I want a quick dispersal this time.............check those corners......check those corners!!!!!

Haribo
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by Haribo »

ATM2 wrote:
Success & wins are not everything in live.


Whilst I would agree with the general idea of the reply, I would be highly disappointed if Hamilton would think so about the quoted part. I always saw him as a dedicated driver for its ultimate goal of WDC and this is one of the reasons he's so popular. Should he have changed his mind, like the last post suggests - doesn't even matter for what reason, money, freedom, Mercedes pride, realizing winning is not his ultimate goal, whatever...makes me feel a tiny spark is gone. And I'm not even a Hamilton fan myself.

He could have easily stayed at Mclaren If it ws about wins
Maybe I said it a bit too drastic, I'm sure he has still a burning desire to win, but he looked for a different challenge,and for a different quality of live
At Mercedes he has only about a quarter (25%) of PR days & events than he had at McLaren. So he has some more time he can spent this time different with his family,friends, training etc
Also the challenge to try to turn Mercedes into a winnig team is different .
Yes, there is a big risk it may fail, but it's also very exciting to build up something, to be a important part of something new. To try something different, to make new experiences - this brings a different quality in your live
Hamilton did not know much outside McLaren most of his live
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ATM2
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by ATM2 »

From that point of view, I can agree with that. Many tried this approach, most of them failed, but this type of motivation is understandable. Which is why I believe someday Vettel will also leave RBR, for instance.
Time will tell whether Hammy got on the good train or made a mistake about it.
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...and also Jenson Button fan.

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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by Haribo »

ATM2 wrote:From that point of view, I can agree with that. Many tried this approach, most of them failed, but this type of motivation is understandable. Which is why I believe someday Vettel will also leave RBR, for instance.
Time will tell whether Hammy got on the good train or made a mistake about it.

Even Ron Dennis said once
"(you)Show me a man who failed, I'll show you someone who never tried!"
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hittheapex
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by hittheapex »

JBee wrote:
ATM2 wrote:Well, if fame and glory is his ultimate goal, i fear he just swiped one golden cage for another. If Mercedes fails to deliver, he might find those German bars even stronger than the Macca days, freedom and all.

I know, I know, he's a fighter, and we are liable to see some very nice racing from him even if the car itself will be a disappointment. But he wants to be in the front, and, if the car will be trash, miracles can only go so far.

Then again, no real reason to actually believe the car is trash. One botched-up testing day, and some cautious press statements are nothing that solid to actually label it from the start as a dog. We'll see how it turns out.


Im only talking 2013 here, just to be clear. 2014 is a beast that none of us can imagine or understand. Hammy's lifeline is the 2014 car! if its doesnt deliver, hes toast! to many youngsters coming through to swallow up the fast drives with minimal pay (or paid drive) in any team for him to find a way back![/quote]

Alonso endured 2 years at Renault from 2008-2009. The final season was particularly dreadful, but he found a way back. Schumacher too, when Ferrari was struggling, always had McLaren banging on his door to try and prise him away. Raikkonen made a comeback just this year after a few years away.

There is young talent around competing for the top seats, but if Hamilton continues to deliver top performances and critically, beats Rosberg, there will be a way back for him. The big teams don't need pay drivers, paying Hamilton's salary won't be an issue. Further, Hamilton can in his own way, pay for himself with the sponsors he attracts. He reaches a bigger demographic by being the only black driver in F1 at the moment.

I'm not saying he would be hired because of that-his driving is enough, but he is still a commercial dream for a team and their sponsors when he is not posting telemetry on Twitter. Plus, if by the end of 2014 the Mercedes is not delivering, I'm sure he would take a pay cut to get into a good car because by then it would have been 6 seasons without another drivers title and he would be 30 years old.
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garagetinkerer
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by garagetinkerer »

Haribo wrote:
ATM2 wrote:From that point of view, I can agree with that. Many tried this approach, most of them failed, but this type of motivation is understandable. Which is why I believe someday Vettel will also leave RBR, for instance.
Time will tell whether Hammy got on the good train or made a mistake about it.

Even Ron Dennis said once
"(you)Show me a man who failed, I'll show you someone who never tried!"

you forgot never .:)
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by garagetinkerer »

hittheapex wrote:
JBee wrote:
ATM2 wrote:Well, if fame and glory is his ultimate goal, i fear he just swiped one golden cage for another. If Mercedes fails to deliver, he might find those German bars even stronger than the Macca days, freedom and all.

I know, I know, he's a fighter, and we are liable to see some very nice racing from him even if the car itself will be a disappointment. But he wants to be in the front, and, if the car will be trash, miracles can only go so far.

Then again, no real reason to actually believe the car is trash. One botched-up testing day, and some cautious press statements are nothing that solid to actually label it from the start as a dog. We'll see how it turns out.


Im only talking 2013 here, just to be clear. 2014 is a beast that none of us can imagine or understand. Hammy's lifeline is the 2014 car! if its doesnt deliver, hes toast! to many youngsters coming through to swallow up the fast drives with minimal pay (or paid drive) in any team for him to find a way back![/quote]

Alonso endured 2 years at Renault from 2008-2009. The final season was particularly dreadful, but he found a way back. Schumacher too, when Ferrari was struggling, always had McLaren banging on his door to try and prise him away. Raikkonen made a comeback just this year after a few years away.

There is young talent around competing for the top seats, but if Hamilton continues to deliver top performances and critically, beats Rosberg, there will be a way back for him. The big teams don't need pay drivers, paying Hamilton's salary won't be an issue. Further, Hamilton can in his own way, pay for himself with the sponsors he attracts. He reaches a bigger demographic by being the only black driver in F1 at the moment.

I'm not saying he would be hired because of that-his driving is enough, but he is still a commercial dream for a team and their sponsors when he is not posting telemetry on Twitter. Plus, if by the end of 2014 the Mercedes is not delivering, I'm sure he would take a pay cut to get into a good car because by then it would have been 6 seasons without another drivers title and he would be 30 years old.

loved the bit about twatter. trouble is, as of now Ferrari have Alonso, RBR have Vettel, Lotus has Kimi, McLaren have Jens... with Jens being the only one who is perhaps on his way out in 2-3 years. RBR and Ferrari have said no to Lewis once already but as they say, never say never. if not, I guess he may have to, make it be willing to swallow that bitter pill.
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hittheapex
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by hittheapex »

garagetinkerer wrote:
hittheapex wrote:
JBee wrote:
ATM2 wrote:Well, if fame and glory is his ultimate goal, i fear he just swiped one golden cage for another. If Mercedes fails to deliver, he might find those German bars even stronger than the Macca days, freedom and all.

I know, I know, he's a fighter, and we are liable to see some very nice racing from him even if the car itself will be a disappointment. But he wants to be in the front, and, if the car will be trash, miracles can only go so far.

Then again, no real reason to actually believe the car is trash. One botched-up testing day, and some cautious press statements are nothing that solid to actually label it from the start as a dog. We'll see how it turns out.


Im only talking 2013 here, just to be clear. 2014 is a beast that none of us can imagine or understand. Hammy's lifeline is the 2014 car! if its doesnt deliver, hes toast! to many youngsters coming through to swallow up the fast drives with minimal pay (or paid drive) in any team for him to find a way back![/quote]

Alonso endured 2 years at Renault from 2008-2009. The final season was particularly dreadful, but he found a way back. Schumacher too, when Ferrari was struggling, always had McLaren banging on his door to try and prise him away. Raikkonen made a comeback just this year after a few years away.

There is young talent around competing for the top seats, but if Hamilton continues to deliver top performances and critically, beats Rosberg, there will be a way back for him. The big teams don't need pay drivers, paying Hamilton's salary won't be an issue. Further, Hamilton can in his own way, pay for himself with the sponsors he attracts. He reaches a bigger demographic by being the only black driver in F1 at the moment.

I'm not saying he would be hired because of that-his driving is enough, but he is still a commercial dream for a team and their sponsors when he is not posting telemetry on Twitter. Plus, if by the end of 2014 the Mercedes is not delivering, I'm sure he would take a pay cut to get into a good car because by then it would have been 6 seasons without another drivers title and he would be 30 years old.

loved the bit about twatter. trouble is, as of now Ferrari have Alonso, RBR have Vettel, Lotus has Kimi, McLaren have Jens... with Jens being the only one who is perhaps on his way out in 2-3 years. RBR and Ferrari have said no to Lewis once already but as they say, never say never. if not, I guess he may have to, make it be willing to swallow that bitter pill.


It would take a team confident enough that they could manage two superstars. Hamilton with Alonso, Vettel or Kimi on paper at least, would be a dream team, not seen since Prost and Senna. Though both Hamilton and Alonso seem to have moved on a lot since 2007, I think that season will condemn both of them to be trapped at Mercedes and Ferrari for the next few seasons so long as Kimi, Button and Vettel stay where they are.

I'm not sure team bosses are going to take the chance on pairing either of them with another big name, even though it has been almost six years already since then. Reconciliation and mutual respect between the two off the track is one thing, but signing either into a race team alongside another champion is quite another.
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Meilow
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by Meilow »

Overheating, as always. :lol:

Image via auto-motor-und-sport.de

Haribo
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by Haribo »

Meilow wrote:Overheating, as always. :lol:

Image via auto-motor-und-sport.de

IMO it's from Tuesday, as it cought fire, don't think they painted it new
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Moley
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by Moley »

Haribo wrote:
Meilow wrote:Overheating, as always. :lol:

Image via auto-motor-und-sport.de

IMO it's from Tuesday, as it cought fire, don't think they painted it new


The fire was more towards the rear though. Ok, there may be burn marks that high up, but there would be more marks around the rear end aswell (i'd have thought)

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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by Adaemus »

...Plus wasn't the fire mainly on the other side of the car?
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Moore
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by Moore »

Adaemus wrote:...Plus wasn't the fire mainly on the other side of the car?


Depends on which side of the track the photo was taken.

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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by Haribo »

Adaemus wrote:...Plus wasn't the fire mainly on the other side of the car?

We saw only one side
I don't think there are any overheating issues, Rosberg has done about 90 laps today without any problem.
Could be the colour reacts with the heat from the exhaust gasses
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Adaemus
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by Adaemus »

If it's just a little discolouration it shouldn't be an issue, but I'm sure they'll be keeping an eye on the temperatures.
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by Laura23 »

It's overheating. The marks were exactly the same last year. Who knows if it's just the paint or the bodywork itself but they'll probably have that area black like the 2012 car by the next test.
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MclarenBullet
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by MclarenBullet »

Laura23 wrote:It's overheating. The marks were exactly the same last year. Who knows if it's just the paint or the bodywork itself but they'll probably have that area black like the 2012 car by the next test.


122 laps with a car that is overheating, not bad!!!

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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by Haribo »

Laura23 wrote:It's overheating. The marks were exactly the same last year. Who knows if it's just the paint or the bodywork itself but they'll probably have that area black like the 2012 car by the next test.

If you look at the other cars, most cars have this area not painted, exhausts are usually not painted for obvious reasons
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by Laura23 »

Haribo wrote:
Laura23 wrote:It's overheating. The marks were exactly the same last year. Who knows if it's just the paint or the bodywork itself but they'll probably have that area black like the 2012 car by the next test.

If you look at the other cars, most cars have this area not painted, exhausts are usually not painted for obvious reasons

So which dunce at Merc thought it'd be a good idea again when last year proved it didn't work?

If it is just paint then there is no problem. If it is the bodywork then they have some issues to sort out in that area again. We'll see come Barca.
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slide
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by slide »

its got pace tho

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Laura23
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by Laura23 »

slide wrote:its got pace tho

Possibly, we won't know their true pace relative to others until Melbourne. Last year Schumacher was topping time sheets at this test and we all know how that turned out.
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by Grosjean »

nothing really does matter until the last five minutes of Q3 then you could know what is ur driver and ur team ?

MclarenBullet
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by MclarenBullet »

Laura23 wrote:
slide wrote:its got pace tho

Possibly, we won't know their true pace relative to others until Melbourne. Last year Schumacher was topping time sheets at this test and we all know how that turned out.


Yes we do, Mercedes were one of the quickest cars Qualifying near the front for the first 5 races and winning in China.

They then messed up their development of the car.

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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by egnat69 »

Haribo wrote:
Meilow wrote:Overheating, as always. :lol:

Spoiler (click to show)

IMO it's from Tuesday, as it cought fire, don't think they painted it new

was the fire on both sides?
Image

didn't look that bad yesterday...
Image

backing meilow for the overheating theory ...
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Haribo
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by Haribo »

egnat69 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Meilow wrote:Overheating, as always. :lol:

Spoiler (click to show)

IMO it's from Tuesday, as it cought fire, don't think they painted it new

was the fire on both sides?
Image

didn't look that bad yesterday...
Image

backing meilow for the overheating theory ...

Even if the colour gets a bit burned, that does not mean the car overheats
It run 148 laps today, if they had an overheating problem, they would not have been able to do it
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Laura23
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by Laura23 »

MclarenBullet wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
slide wrote:its got pace tho

Possibly, we won't know their true pace relative to others until Melbourne. Last year Schumacher was topping time sheets at this test and we all know how that turned out.


Yes we do, Mercedes were one of the quickest cars Qualifying near the front for the first 5 races and winning in China.

They then messed up their development of the car.

Their reliability was also shocking.

It seems Mercedes can't keep up with other teams in a development war. I don't see why this season will change anything, especially when they'll likely switch focus to 2014 quite early in the year since they have pinpointed that as their golden opportunity to catch and overtake the top teams.
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by ATM2 »

Well, if Lotus, nowadays a customer team, can keep up, then Mercedes should be able to keep up too. Maybe the parent company doesn't exactly pour money with the barrel, Toyota-style, but to my knowledge last year they had a more-than-decent budget.

Besides, whatever happened to "give it all you've got"? If they always go by the principle of dropping this year in favor of the next one, sooner or later they're going to find out there ain't no next year.

Plus, the power of example, I seem to remember another German team, some 5 years ago, switching to next year's car when one of their drivers was still in the WDC game. And we know how that worked out. That was a stupid call. Not Honda-stupid, but stupid nevertheless.
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by Laura23 »

ATM2 wrote:Well, if Lotus, nowadays a customer team, can keep up, then Mercedes should be able to keep up too. Maybe the parent company doesn't exactly pour money with the barrel, Toyota-style, but to my knowledge last year they had a more-than-decent budget.

Besides, whatever happened to "give it all you've got"? If they always go by the principle of dropping this year in favor of the next one, sooner or later they're going to find out there ain't no next year.

Plus, the power of example, I seem to remember another German team, some 5 years ago, switching to next year's car when one of their drivers was still in the WDC game. And we know how that worked out. That was a stupid call. Not Honda-stupid, but stupid nevertheless.

Lotus just seem more capable of getting more consistent development rates from their factory than Mecredes do. It's nothing to do with money, it's you utilise what money you do have and Lotus did that much better in 2012.
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by dannyjames8 »

During testing are Lewis and Nico share a car? or do they have their own for their own different days?
because that would explain why there is less of a burn mark on yesterdays practice when lewis was driving.

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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by Laura23 »

dannyjames8 wrote:During testing are Lewis and Nico share a car? or do they have their own for their own different days?
because that would explain why there is less of a burn mark on yesterdays practice when lewis was driving.

Same chassis. They can only use one car per test.

As for the burn marks Lewis wasn't on track long enough yesterday to have them.
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by RickM »

For reference, this is the burning they had last year during practice:

Image

Their solution wasnt to fix it. They just did this:
Image

Slap a bit of black on it so nobody notices.
Image

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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by Laura23 »

That's what leads me to think it's just the paint burning. If it was bodywork they would have had to change it completly.
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by A2jdl »

Laura23 wrote:
ATM2 wrote:Well, if Lotus, nowadays a customer team, can keep up, then Mercedes should be able to keep up too. Maybe the parent company doesn't exactly pour money with the barrel, Toyota-style, but to my knowledge last year they had a more-than-decent budget.

Besides, whatever happened to "give it all you've got"? If they always go by the principle of dropping this year in favor of the next one, sooner or later they're going to find out there ain't no next year.

Plus, the power of example, I seem to remember another German team, some 5 years ago, switching to next year's car when one of their drivers was still in the WDC game. And we know how that worked out. That was a stupid call. Not Honda-stupid, but stupid nevertheless.

Lotus just seem more capable of getting more consistent development rates from their factory than Mecredes do. It's nothing to do with money, it's you utilise what money you do have and Lotus did that much better in 2012.

Also what has helped Lotus is they over the last few years have spent a fortune improving there facilities at the factory such as upgrading the wind tunnel, new dyno / test beds brand new simulator facility with top not simulator and lots more on top of that so I'm sure all this has help with their recent improvement.

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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by RickM »

Laura23 wrote:That's what leads me to think it's just the paint burning. If it was bodywork they would have had to change it completly.

Yeah highly likely just paint. Not sure if anyone else has noticed but a few teams (I know McLaren do it) have an ice blanket they put on the same spot whenever the car comes in during quali/practice.
Image

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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by Laura23 »

RickM wrote:
Laura23 wrote:That's what leads me to think it's just the paint burning. If it was bodywork they would have had to change it completly.

Yeah highly likely just paint. Not sure if anyone else has noticed but a few teams (I know McLaren do it) have an ice blanket they put on the same spot whenever the car comes in during quali/practice.

Indeed. Seems weird though you'd think the material would just catch fire given the temps of the paint and bodywork can't cope! I suppose it'll be fireproof material.

The more teams try and compact the rear end the more likely cooling will be a problem though. Newey is the master at shrink wrap sometimes to the cost of reliability. Lotus look to have a super sleek rear end this year too, very Red Bull esque. The Mercedes looks a real chunker in comparison to the top teams cars and the Sauber.
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by lamo »

What did Schumacher and Rosberg think of the 2011 and 2012 Mercedes when they first tested them?

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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by Laura23 »

lamo wrote:What did Schumacher and Rosberg think of the 2011 and 2012 Mercedes when they first tested them?

Schumacher kept saying "lets wait and see" a lot. We're still waiting...

Anyway,

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97194 - Merc claimed missing the first test last year would do no harm...

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/ ... 11810.html - Schumacher topped the time sheets in 2011 as well and said everything was as expected...

So the general gist from Merc pre season is top the times and say everything is going as they expected only to underperformed come the season itself. Who knows if they'll change that this year.
1994 1995 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 Get well soon Schumi.

No one call anyone a moo-pickle...

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ATM2
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Re: Mercedes F1 W04 online reveal

Post by ATM2 »

Well, like the old saying goes, let's wait and see :)
Reliability improved yesterday by quite a margin. Hamilton claims downforce is not on par with McLaren, but not as bad as it would have firstly believed. Other than that, everybody's swimming in shallow water for the time being.
Olivier Panis fan.
...and also Jenson Button fan.

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