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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:51 pm 
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I have seen Roy Chubby Brown's show and it does not come any 'worse' than that.
IT was fine, because I went knowing what to expect,, and got it, but by about the hour mark most of the audience were sick of it and realised that his whole routine was based around the swearing. The second hour just made me realise what a sugarplum he was.

The following week I went to see Bill Bailey, who used several strong swear words, which ADDED to the show as they were in context.

I dont think they can be compared at all.


I also think this has run its course now and divided into two camps and neither are going to move.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:53 pm 
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fieldstvl wrote:
Britishgreen wrote:
we have a watershed for a reason and people on live TV should respect that.


What about those for whom the race was broadcast live after a TV watershed?


Surely if a programme is after the watershed in some places and before it in other places you should err on the side of caution it should be treated as a pre-watershed programme.

Basically the stand-up linked above is very funny, but thats not the point. I want to watch F1, in my living room, at 2pm, without my young children having to hear people swearing. Simple.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:55 pm 
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moby wrote:
I have seen Roy Chubby Brown's show and it does not come any 'worse' than that.
IT was fine, because I went knowing what to expect,, and got it, but by about the hour mark most of the audience were sick of it and realised that his whole routine was based around the swearing. The second hour just made me realise what a sugarplum he was.

The following week I went to see Bill Bailey, who used several strong swear words, which ADDED to the show as they were in context.

I dont think they can be compared at all.


I also think this has run its course now and divided into two camps and neither are going to move.


When it comes to there being nothing worse than Roy Chubby Brown, I'm fully in your 'camp'.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:01 pm 
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Misinformed wrote:
People should stop brushing off the language used by both Kimi and Seb as nothing, citing the reason that they are only human. Yeah they might be human so they may just swear, but if that's the case, they can do it in their own time. Just because they have the job we all dream to have doesn't give them some sort of irresponsible self-entitlement.


Agreed.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:13 pm 
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There's an interesting story I once read about Dr. Samuel Johnson who, after finishing his first lexicography, was approached by two elderly ladies. They complimented him on having not included any rude words in his new dictionary, to which he replied that he was heartened to learn that they had been actively looking for them.

The moral of the story is that those who want to be offended will always find a way to be so. If those few words out of our wonderful English language are really so abbrasive to you then it might be questioned what other 'important issues' you have on your hit list.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:14 pm 
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moby wrote:
number27 wrote:
vince14 wrote:
Honestly, everyone complains about today's robotic drivers giving standard corporate, non-controversial answers in interviews whilst longing wistfully for the days when James Hunt would smoke a fag, grab a grid girls pickle and then punch a marshal, and yesterday we had two drivers very, very briefly not acting like a corporate PR dept and apparently it's the Worst Thing Ever...


Spot on. If the complainers spent a little time addressing the real evils of this world instead of whining about trivialities then we'd all be much better off.


The real evils of this world also tend to come from not considering others or obeying rules of convention.


Finally, some sense...

Amazing how many infantile and unrelated arguments have cropped up here...


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:20 pm 
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fieldstvl wrote:
There's an interesting story I once read about Dr. Samuel Johnson who, after finishing his first lexicography, was approached by two elderly ladies. They complimented him on having not included any rude words in his new dictionary, to which he replied that he was heartened to learn that they had been actively looking for them.

The moral of the story is that those who want to be offended will always find a way to be so. If those few words out of our wonderful English language are really so abbrasive to you then it might be questioned what other 'important issues' you have on your hit list.

I don't think the issue here is that the swearing was offensive, but rather that the connotation, not of the individual words, but the use of swear words in general is not particularly tolerable for international viewing. I like Cricket. Most of the players are absolute gentlemen (the women too), and you'll never hear them swearing, even if it's inadvertent. Formula One drivers, I believe, are of the fittest athletes in the world, and for me personally, I find myself respecting them a little less because their language/behaviour reflects on their personality for me.. especially knowing that they're under the spotlight. I'm not saying "Hey you, don't swear, ever." But rather, there are better ways of wording things.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:10 pm 
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-ZeroGravityToilet- wrote:
moby wrote:
The real evils of this world also tend to come from not considering others or obeying rules of convention.


Finally, some sense...

Amazing how many infantile and unrelated arguments have cropped up here...


Actually, the [i]real[i] evils of this world tend to come from not challenging social conventions. Totally abhorrent things go on, and persist, because they are simply what goes on, people consider them to be the norm, so do not try to prevent them. Generally speaking.

If people really want to take moral umbrage with F1 maybe they should focus on the tacit legitimization of various regimes around the world with rather less than stellar human rights records, by this multi-billion dollar, global behemoth we all love so much.

Anyway, glad to see the forum is unflinching in it's glorious march towards becoming the daily mail, or, we can only hope, mums' net.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:46 pm 
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i just don't think two incidents of swearing should cause such a fuss, especially seeing as F1's target audience isn't exactly 7 year olds.


Have you not seen all the f1 kids wear you can buy? I was into F1 when I was a kid. My boy is 2 and already he's pointing at the TV and shouting .Webber Webber!'. What about Mclaren's new Tooned cartoon? Who's that aimed at then? Of course children are part of F1's target audience. They will grow up liking F1


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:47 pm 
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AFCTUJacko wrote:
Nephilist wrote:
Anyone else surprised by Vettel's language?


He only did it because Kimi swore first...

Bit silly though. There are kids watching. Felt sorry for DC.


So kids don't know those words? Really? I find it silly placing self-taboo to exclude two most used words of modern English from "official speak". It's just words.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:51 pm 
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Misinformed wrote:
I don't think the issue here is that the swearing was offensive, but rather that the connotation, not of the individual words, but the use of swear words in general is not particularly tolerable for international viewing. I like Cricket. Most of the players are absolute gentlemen (the women too), and you'll never hear them swearing, even if it's inadvertent. Formula One drivers, I believe, are of the fittest athletes in the world, and for me personally, I find myself respecting them a little less because their language/behaviour reflects on their personality for me.. especially knowing that they're under the spotlight. I'm not saying "Hey you, don't swear, ever." But rather, there are better ways of wording things.


So I'm just curious, if you are building something and outright hit your finger with a 3lbs hummer, what would be your first best worded words? (if english is your first language of coure) :)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:52 pm 
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Benici wrote:
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i just don't think two incidents of swearing should cause such a fuss, especially seeing as F1's target audience isn't exactly 7 year olds.


Have you not seen all the f1 kids wear you can buy? I was into F1 when I was a kid. My boy is 2 and already he's pointing at the TV and shouting .Webber Webber!'. What about Mclaren's new Tooned cartoon? Who's that aimed at then? Of course children are part of F1's target audience. They will grow up liking F1

I'm not saying kids don't watch F1, but it's not the biggest part of the audience, and it's not advertised as such

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:54 pm 
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toilet wrote:
-ZeroGravityToilet- wrote:
moby wrote:
The real evils of this world also tend to come from not considering others or obeying rules of convention.


Finally, some sense...

Amazing how many infantile and unrelated arguments have cropped up here...


Actually, the [i]real[i] evils of this world tend to come from not challenging social conventions.


Right, so a 'social convention' like not swearing in front of kids is something evil that we need to challenge is it? Don't be stupid. There's nothing 'Daily Mail' about being courteous and considerate.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:58 pm 
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AngusWolfe wrote:
Benici wrote:
Quote:
i just don't think two incidents of swearing should cause such a fuss, especially seeing as F1's target audience isn't exactly 7 year olds.


Have you not seen all the f1 kids wear you can buy? I was into F1 when I was a kid. My boy is 2 and already he's pointing at the TV and shouting .Webber Webber!'. What about Mclaren's new Tooned cartoon? Who's that aimed at then? Of course children are part of F1's target audience. They will grow up liking F1

I'm not saying kids don't watch F1, but it's not the biggest part of the audience, and it's not advertised as such


Fair enough. I understand that kids aren't the main audience. But we shouldn't forget that they are still PART of it.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:00 pm 
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Vlad wrote:
Quote:

So I'm just curious, if you are building something and outright hit your finger with a 3lbs hummer, what would be your first best worded words? (if english is your first language of coure) :)


I would say "Ouch! who parked that very small Hummer there!"


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:03 pm 
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I haven't read all 6 six pages, but the general gist seems to be some are against swearing on worldwide TV, some say it's part of life and it doesn't bother them.

Here's my take on it - It doesn't bother me, but at the same time I don't see why people should swear when there are plenty of other words they could use.

Some posters have pointed out that Vettel swore on purpose, because Kimi did and Seb thought he'd be 'cool' as well! I'd agree with this and say that he knew full well what he was saying and did so to try and show he was cool and funny too. But at the same time, Kimi speaks fluent English (probably better than lots of Brits do!) and is perfectly capable of not swearing, so why is more ok for him to do so?

I've also read the comments along the lines 'of it's only 7 words, so why do they matter so much?' well if it is only 7 words, then why can't some people with a vocabulary of 1,000's not find others to use? If you are aware that it will offend someone, why say it? Would any of the posters who can't see what the fuss is about go up their parents or boss and say we can chocolate fudge cake things up? I doubt it, so why is it ok just cause you're fine with it?

As for the social conventions discussion going on, yes you can question social conventions, but you shouldn't go against them until the debate has finished. As an extreme example, some people have a pathological urge to hurt or kill people, should they not try to control themselves and question the social convention and go about killing people cause it's what they do naturally?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:26 pm 
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Benici wrote:
Right, so a 'social convention' like not swearing in front of kids is something evil that we need to challenge is it? Don't be stupid. There's nothing 'Daily Mail' about being courteous and considerate.


Erm, did you actually read my post? At what point did I say "not swearing in front of kinds is something evil that we need to challenge"? To use your own courteous and considerate words, don't be stupid.

The post I was responding to said "The real evils of this world also tend to come from not considering others or obeying rules of convention", I was merely pointing out that the "real evils" of this world actually tend to come from adhering blindly to social conventions.

Indeed there is nothing "daily mail" about being courteous and considerate, nothing at all, I don't think the daily mail has ever heard of those concepts. But there is, however, everything "daily mail" about being so very sanctimoniously outraged about 2 people accidentally swearing on tele, particularly when, as I pointed out, there are far bigger issues.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:26 pm 
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fieldstvl wrote:
The moral of the story is that those who want to be offended will always find a way to be so. If those few words out of our wonderful English language are really so abbrasive to you then it might be questioned what other 'important issues' you have on your hit list.

The most ridiculous thing I've read in a week.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:39 pm 
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toilet wrote:
Benici wrote:
Right, so a 'social convention' like not swearing in front of kids is something evil that we need to challenge is it? Don't be stupid. There's nothing 'Daily Mail' about being courteous and considerate.


Erm, did you actually read my post? At what point did I say "not swearing in front of kinds is something evil that we need to challenge"? To use your own courteous and considerate words, don't be stupid.

The post I was responding to said "The real evils of this world also tend to come from not considering others or obeying rules of convention", I was merely pointing out that the "real evils" of this world actually tend to come from adhering blindly to social conventions.

Indeed there is nothing "daily mail" about being courteous and considerate, nothing at all, I don't think the daily mail has ever heard of those concepts. But there is, however, everything "daily mail" about being so very sanctimoniously outraged about 2 people accidentally swearing on tele, particularly when, as I pointed out, there are far bigger issues.


I apologise for writing 'don't be stupid.' I guess I was getting slightly frustrated that voicing my opinion gets me compared to the Daily Mail - a newspaper I can't stand.

May I just point out that I can understand accidental swearing. However I did point out in one of my previous posts that I thought Vettel at least did it on purpose - in a childish attempt to upstage Kimi.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:39 pm 
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marvinonpole wrote:
fieldstvl wrote:
The moral of the story is that those who want to be offended will always find a way to be so. If those few words out of our wonderful English language are really so abbrasive to you then it might be questioned what other 'important issues' you have on your hit list.

The most ridiculous thing I've read in a week.


Why? He has a good point

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:54 pm 
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kimisdabest wrote:
marvinonpole wrote:
fieldstvl wrote:
The moral of the story is that those who want to be offended will always find a way to be so. If those few words out of our wonderful English language are really so abbrasive to you then it might be questioned what other 'important issues' you have on your hit list.

The most ridiculous thing I've read in a week.


Why? He has a good point

What good point? That there is no need to pick your words on live TV, somebody will be offended anyway? OR There is a group of people watching F1 who want to be offended? OR people who don't appreciate swearing on TV have a 'hit list' of other 'important issues' (presumably laughable ones)?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:58 pm 
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Did it bother / insult / offend me? No
Do I think it shouldn't happen? Yes

They are only words, but their inappropriate use is known to offend. If you think it is ok to say or do things in public that are known to offend others, fortunately you are in the minority. Which is why, on average, society evolves in a positive way.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:33 pm 
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Benici wrote:
I apologise for writing 'don't be stupid.' I guess I was getting slightly frustrated that voicing my opinion gets me compared to the Daily Mail - a newspaper I can't stand.

May I just point out that I can understand accidental swearing. However I did point out in one of my previous posts that I thought Vettel at least did it on purpose - in a childish attempt to upstage Kimi.


Apology accepted, I wasn't offended anyway, but thank you.

Just to clarify, I wasn't replying to your posts, but commenting on the general, seemingly ever increasing trend towards ever more sensationalist, reactionary and, in my opinion, nonsense that seems to be befalling the forum. Personally them swearing didn't bother me in the slightest, but I freely acknowledge that I feel that they shouldn't have done so. I apologise if the association caused offence, but I do feel that the apparent outrage expressed by some to be more than a touch disproportionate, and to be a very knee-jerk, tabloid style reaction, particularly when, as I mentioned, there are far bigger issues about F1 to be appalled by.

Whether or not either swore on purpose is nothing but speculation, objectively, no judgement could be made as to their intentions, because we aren't them. Nobody seems to be bothered that Kimi swore, the reaction merely being "oh, it's Kimi, he does that sometimes, it's to be expected", but Vettel's got history too, at the very least he's sworn on the BBC forum a couple of times, maybe we should also just expect that every now and then he'll have a slip of the tongue.

To think that Vettel feels a need to upstage Kimi by swearing, when he's on the verge of becoming only the 3rd driver ever to have won 3 titles on the trot, and therefore forever ensuring that his name is discussed in the same breath as Fangio, I do find laughable.

To me it seems far more likely that he'd only been out of the car for about 8 mins, just finished on the podium, virtually securing the title, from a race where, from his point of view, he'd had so many obstacles put in his way; where he'd had to start dead last because his team or Renault had made a huge error, one that on Saturday night he would have thought had virtually engraved Alonso's name on the title; in light of this context, and quite self evidently, he was highly emotional, and being interviewed in what would feel like a less formal setting, not having a camera right in his face, having Coulthard without his now accustomed BBC entourage, not having that lovely pr girl giving him words of advice before talking to anyone, and that because of all this he simply swore by accident, not even realising at the time that he'd erred. Honestly, this seems far more likely than your one-up-manship theory. But we'll never know.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:49 pm 
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Ok fair enough.

It might not be quite so laughable that Vettel was trying to upstage Kimi - look at Vettel's trademark - the infamous finger. He like to show everyone he's 'Number 1'. It's often spoken about that besides winning the race he likes to be top of all the stats - fastest in practice, fastest qualifier, fastest lap etc. What's that if it's not upstaging! He's a showoff. I grant that most of them are though.

You're right though - we will never know.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:02 pm 
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growers wrote:
Did it bother / insult / offend me? No
Do I think it shouldn't happen? Yes

They are only words, but their inappropriate use is known to offend. If you think it is ok to say or do things in public that are known to offend others, fortunately you are in the minority. Which is why, on average, society evolves in a positive way.


gay couples offend a lot of people and I wouldn't prohibit that because two guys don't want to accept it

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:11 pm 
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marvinonpole wrote:
kimisdabest wrote:
marvinonpole wrote:
fieldstvl wrote:
The moral of the story is that those who want to be offended will always find a way to be so. If those few words out of our wonderful English language are really so abbrasive to you then it might be questioned what other 'important issues' you have on your hit list.

The most ridiculous thing I've read in a week.


Why? He has a good point

What good point? That there is no need to pick your words on live TV, somebody will be offended anyway? OR There is a group of people watching F1 who want to be offended? OR people who don't appreciate swearing on TV have a 'hit list' of other 'important issues' (presumably laughable ones)?


People, people, enough about my point. That withered old thing is a topic for an entirely different debate. If you must discuss it, it's probably best to begin it in the "Off-Topic" section.

The issue I was trying to raise here is that it's bizarre to me how there can be words that share meaning with other words - precise meaning in some cases - yet we label some of these as regular words, and others as 'expletives'.

There are bad thoughts, bad intentions, bad actions, but - for me - the idea of a word being transcendentally and independently bad is insane. People concerned about not wanting their children to hear such words are only perpetuating this madness. I consider myself fortunate enough to have been taught by my parents that so-called 'bad words' are only bad if you intend them to be so. Now, as a fully-grown adult, I have one less thing to get bothered about.

I feel as if these bad words only exist for some people to get angry at or be offended by. Of those types of people, some have presented themselves within this thread. To answer your questions:

-There should be no words that are inherently bad, so there should be no need to pick your words (in terms of purely the words themselves) on TV; live or not.

-There are large areas of society - including, I presume, some F1 viewers - who are gagging for reasons to write in to whoever-might-be-at-fault and make a complaint about how they were personally offended.

-The sort of people, in my opinion, who are that offended by 'bad words' need to reassess what's important to them. I try to have about 10 things to get angry about at any given time, and those things are fairly big issues. If bad words made my top 10 then I would hope that to other people the rest of my top 10 might be slightly questionable.

Quick question for you... what would have been worse: Vettel slipping the word 'chocolate fudge cake' into a sentence, or telling DC that he 'would like to punch' his mother. In one he has done a swear, in the other he has not. Which is worse?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:16 pm 
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Hopefully Kimi's wide use of words have probably saved us from more cruddy podium interviews.... Come guys we should all be giving kimi a pat on the back.

The other way to look at this is what a silly question to be asking kimi in the first place from DC. The guy has just won a GP and at the same time been knocked out of the 2012 WDC contention. DC should have worded the question much better. What kimi was actually doing was taking the micky out of DC his ex team mate at McLaren for stooping to such a silly job.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:19 pm 
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fieldstvl wrote:
marvinonpole wrote:
kimisdabest wrote:
marvinonpole wrote:
fieldstvl wrote:
The moral of the story is that those who want to be offended will always find a way to be so. If those few words out of our wonderful English language are really so abbrasive to you then it might be questioned what other 'important issues' you have on your hit list.

The most ridiculous thing I've read in a week.


Why? He has a good point

What good point? That there is no need to pick your words on live TV, somebody will be offended anyway? OR There is a group of people watching F1 who want to be offended? OR people who don't appreciate swearing on TV have a 'hit list' of other 'important issues' (presumably laughable ones)?


People, people, enough about my point. That withered old thing is a topic for an entirely different debate. If you must discuss it, it's probably best to begin it in the "Off-Topic" section.

The issue I was trying to raise here is that it's bizarre to me how there can be words that share meaning with other words - precise meaning in some cases - yet we label some of these as regular words, and others as 'expletives'.

There are bad thoughts, bad intentions, bad actions, but - for me - the idea of a word being transcendentally and independently bad is insane. People concerned about not wanting their children to hear such words are only perpetuating this madness. I consider myself fortunate enough to have been taught by my parents that so-called 'bad words' are only bad if you intend them to be so. Now, as a fully-grown adult, I have one less thing to get bothered about.

I feel as if these bad words only exist for some people to get angry at or be offended by. Of those types of people, some have presented themselves within this thread. To answer your questions:

-There should be no words that are inherently bad, so there should be no need to pick your words (in terms of purely the words themselves) on TV; live or not.

-There are large areas of society - including, I presume, some F1 viewers - who are gagging for reasons to write in to whoever-might-be-at-fault and make a complaint about how they were personally offended.

-The sort of people, in my opinion, who are that offended by 'bad words' need to reassess what's important to them. I try to have about 10 things to get angry about at any given time, and those things are fairly big issues. If bad words made my top 10 then I would hope that to other people the rest of my top 10 might be slightly questionable.

Quick question for you... what would have been worse: Vettel slipping the word 'chocolate fudge cake' into a sentence, or telling DC that he 'would like to punch' his mother. In one he has done a swear, in the other he has not. Which is worse?

In context, slipping the word chocolate fudge cake into a sentence, on purpose to try and be funny/cool/hip (delete as appropriate) knowing he was on world wide TV or having a jest with a friend who knew full well he was joking? Hmmmm, I'm going for the first option.

Question for you - If Vettel told the world that he's happy that he's still ahead of that wop team's driver, would that be ok? I don't find the word wop offensive, but I'm sure there are quite a lot of Italian's that might do.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:26 pm 
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Calling an Italian a W is like calling a black person a N. The F word is far morer common in everyday language than either W or N and is used to describe a feeling rather than a person.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:29 pm 
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minchy wrote:
Question for you - If Vettel told the world that he's happy that he's still ahead of that wop team's driver, would that be ok? I don't find the word wop offensive, but I'm sure there are quite a lot of Italian's that might do.


You raise an interesting point.

I think a lot of the issue would be down to how he said it. As Derrida said, "there is nothing outside the text". Consequently, and as I've said repeatedly in this thread, it's not the word that's bad, it's the intention.

Ultimately I don't care what is said on my TV at any time of the day... I'm not concerned about mollycoddling minors. I'd think he was a bit of a tool for using a racial slur... but, to quote Tallentyre, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:35 pm 
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Razoola wrote:
Calling an Italian a W is like calling a black person a N. The F word is far morer common in everyday language than either W or N and is used to describe a feeling rather than a person.

But both the W word and the N word are just words! Unless I'm mistaken, that was what fieldstvl was saying, there shouldn't be bad words. as for describing a person 'you little chocolate fudge cake' or 'you little fairy cakes' are fairly common (please note they weren't aimed at anyone).

How can anyone who claims that fairy cakes and chocolate fudge cake are ok in tv interviews, but not even bring himself to write wop or nigger, both words can be readily found in films, music, comedy shows etc. I will agree on 1 thing with fieldstvl though, they are only offensive if you are offended by them! However, if people are offended by them, then surely it is just common decency to not use them?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:44 pm 
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I simply don't use the N word in the forum because thats a ban offence. Given I class using W to describe race I take it as a given the mods view it in the same way.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:45 pm 
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fieldstvl, if those words were not expletives, who would have used them? :lol: It beats the purpose! They were used precisely because what they are.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:53 pm 
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Razoola wrote:
I simply don't use the N word in the forum because thats a ban offence. Given I class using W to describe race I take it as a given the mods view it in the same way.

But that's the whole point, if they decide to give me a warning, holiday, full ban etc because of a couple of words I wrote (not aimed at anyone, just wrote) because some people find them offensive, then the same actions should be taken because of the words Kimi and Seb used because some people find those words offensive?

Words shouldn't be classified into differing levels of offensiveness, they should be either ok or not.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:05 pm 
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I see what your getting at and I do totally agree with you. The issue is there are rules we agree to when using these forum which can make trying to discus topics like this openly here quite hard without getting you a warning or ban.

I don't know what kind of rules drivers are tied to in these podium interviews to be honest. There is probably contracts on this between driver and team and teams and FIA making it quite complex.

Personally I don't care about what kimi or Vettel said one bit. For me I actually listened more after Kimis comment.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:15 pm 
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Razoola wrote:
I see what your getting at and I do totally agree with you. The issue is there are rules we agree to when using these forum which can make trying to discus topics like this openly here quite hard without getting you a warning or ban.

I don't know what kind of rules drivers are tied to in these podium interviews to be honest. There is probably contracts on this between driver and team and teams and FIA making it quite complex.

Personally I don't care about what kimi or Vettel said one bit. For me I actually listened more after Kimis comment.

I totally did too, thinking 'did I hear that right?'

As for the rules of the forum, they are as good as F1 regs and can be interpreted differently to how they are written! I have asked for a clarification, just in case ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:28 pm 
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minchy wrote:
However, if people are offended by them, then surely it is just common decency to not use them?


Just going off the posts in this thread, some people think common decency is for pussies.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:30 pm 
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I wonder how many of you are parents? It tends to color one's thinking, in case you're not. I have kids at home to worry about and they are at an age when they actually still listen to me, sometimes. I tell them not to swear. We talk about the S word (not Kimi's S word, but "stupid") and the like. I also have a teenage son who is well acquainted with all the words that his classmates use, but he normally doesn't do so because he respects me (and yes, I am aware that he spends several hours a day outside of my purview). It's kind of hard for these kids when their dad ends up watching a show where the same words are used in a super-cool manner.

Having said that, I don't think any less of those who use these words loosely (without considering what they mean). For many, these words have become part of their vocabulary.

But they should consider the image of the sport and their sponsors, and my kids at home.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:39 pm 
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fieldstvl wrote:
I'd be interested to hear if you feel an authority on morality is possible.


No I don't.

fieldstvl wrote:
People, people, enough about my point. That withered old thing is a topic for an entirely different debate. If you must discuss it, it's probably best to begin it in the "Off-Topic" section.

The issue I was trying to raise here is that it's bizarre to me how there can be words that share meaning with other words - precise meaning in some cases - yet we label some of these as regular words, and others as 'expletives'.

There are bad thoughts, bad intentions, bad actions, but - for me - the idea of a word being transcendentally and independently bad is insane. People concerned about not wanting their children to hear such words are only perpetuating this madness. I consider myself fortunate enough to have been taught by my parents that so-called 'bad words' are only bad if you intend them to be so. Now, as a fully-grown adult, I have one less thing to get bothered about.

I feel as if these bad words only exist for some people to get angry at or be offended by. Of those types of people, some have presented themselves within this thread. To answer your questions:

-There should be no words that are inherently bad, so there should be no need to pick your words (in terms of purely the words themselves) on TV; live or not.

-There are large areas of society - including, I presume, some F1 viewers - who are gagging for reasons to write in to whoever-might-be-at-fault and make a complaint about how they were personally offended.

-The sort of people, in my opinion, who are that offended by 'bad words' need to reassess what's important to them. I try to have about 10 things to get angry about at any given time, and those things are fairly big issues. If bad words made my top 10 then I would hope that to other people the rest of my top 10 might be slightly questionable.

I do hope the bolded parts where not indirectly aimed at me, I wasn't angry at any stage of this thread nor was I offended by what they said on the podium. I've been clear about that.

As for the last bit I don't have a "10 things to get angry about list" If I did have one however then respect in society would certainly be one of them and while that includes far more than childish swearing on TV the way in which we communicate is intrinsic to having basic levels of respect.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:53 pm 
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Seriously, it's not even about whether or not it's offensive, it's about maturity. Swearing doesn't bother me at all, and the list of things that I'm actually offended by is one word long (racism), but it's still disrespectful. These guys earn millions upon millions of dollars and are world-famous for driving cars around a track really fast for a few hours and yet they apparently don't think they need to keep their language clean on TV. That they dropped an f-bomb or two in the heat of the moment, under pressure, would be a perfectly acceptable excuse if they were heard swearing over their team radio, and it is possible that Kimi simply got overly excited and let one slip out, but there's no excuse for Vettel to just say "chocolate fudge cake" for no reason at all. Knowing his usual behaviour, he probably just thinks he's great enough that he can do absolutely anything he wants.

Yes, swear words are just sounds we make with our mouth, but so are "please" and "thank you." Words are what we use to convey our feelings, and swear words are swear words because they represent some of our worst emotions. Obviously Vettel and Kimi didn't mean "fairy cakes" and "chocolate fudge cake" in the worst senses of those words but they're still not nice things to say in front of anyone, much less when you're receiving an award. :lol:

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