2020 Group Pick 'Em. Return of the Joker!

Post by **P-F1 Mod** » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:59 pm

Welcome to the fifth year of this game. Rules are below, stolen from last year's thread again because I'm lazy.

The scoring system stays the same as 2019. It works well, generates big points but also keeps things close. Unless reigning champion Herb decides to get a 200 point jump on everyone again!

1st = 100 points
2nd = 87 points
3rd = 78 points
4th = 70 points
5th = 62 points
6th = 56 points
7th = 50 points
8th = 45 points
9th = 40 points
10th = 35 points
11th = 30 points
12th = 25 points
13th = 20 points
14th = 16 points
15th = 12 points
16th = 9 points
17th = 6 points
18th = 4 points
19th = 2 points
20th = 1 point

Points for teams will be the combined total their two drivers score under this system. So if Hamilton and Bottas are classified 1st and 17th, Mercedes would score 106 points for that race (100 + 6).

The transfer system works like this:

- Everyone starts with 200 transfer points to use however they wish. There is no limit on the number of transfers you can make per race or per group; the only limitation is the 200 points.
- A transfer will be considered final when a race weekend begins (when FP1 goes green). Like last year, a transfer can be requested in advance of a race weekend but cancelled before the weekend begins. However, this must be done in a separate post stating that you now wish to cancel that transfer. Deleting the original post will not be considered a withdrawal of a transfer request because I'm unable to see when posts are deleted (and therefore it would be open to abuse).
- A driver's transfer value is dictated by their standing in the WDC. Whichever driver is first in the WDC costs 20 points to transfer; the driver in 2nd costs 19 points to transfer; the driver in 3rd costs 18 points to transfer; and so on down to the driver in 20th, who costs just 1 point to transfer. Costs increase by a point for every extra driver entered next season, if any.
- A team's transfer value is dictated by their standing in the WCC. Whichever team is first in the WCC costs 40 points to transfer; the team in 2nd costs 36 points to transfer; and so on down to the team in 10th, which costs 4 points to transfer. Costs increase by a point for every extra team entered next season, if any.
- When you transfer a driver/team out of your selections, you do not receive their value back in additional points. There are also no additional points on offer for not making transfers (as there were in the previous transfer rules).
- At the end of the season, any transfer points you have remaining will be added to your overall score. The inactive team rule has been rescinded, because even if someone gives up on the game or forgets about it, I feel their efforts at the start of the season shouldn't be dismissed. Nonetheless it would be nice to see people posting more often in these threads.
- No transfers will be permitted until after the third race of the season. This is to try and avoid a situation where misfortune in the opening rounds results in a driver/team being significantly less expensive than they otherwise would be. It is also to ensure extra weight is attached to everyone's initial picks.

The Joker system returns for this year. This is new, hence the bold. Drivers are divided into 4 groups, teams to 3. Each group offers one chance for an extra nomination for a single round, but that nomination MUST be an extra entrant besides your regular choice. If you're scoring every round with Mercedes for example, you would have to call Ferrari or Red Bull for your joker in that group. You cannot score twice with Mercedes in a single race.

Driver jokers:

Group 1 will be usable in rounds 2-6.
Group 2 will be usable in rounds 7-11.
Group 3 will be usable in rounds 12-16.
Group 4 will be usable in rounds 17-21.

Team jokers work the other way around:

Group 3 will be usable in rounds 4-9.
Group 2 will be usable in rounds 10-15.
Group 1 will be usable in rounds 16-21.

All these things will be announced when I post the scores, so you don't need to commit this to memory or keep referring back. I will also post a reminder of who has chosen whom from the active groups prior to the next round.

2020 Groups

You need to make one selection from each group, so you end up with four drivers and three teams.

What If...

This was a pretty useful section to have last year so I'm including it again.

What if one of my selections is replaced by a driver not on the grid? For example, one of my selections gets sick of his GP2 - sorry, FIA F2 - engine and decides to quit F1? (Sorry, Jenson). Or one of my drivers is unable to take part in a race due to injury/suspension? Then you will receive any points scored by the replacement for as long as they continue to replace the original selection. You would, of course, be able to transfer out the replacement for another driver in that group.
What if the aforementioned F2 engine suddenly improved and the disgruntled Spaniard decided, actually, he quite fancied racing in F1 again? (Sorry, Jenson). Well if you hadn't transferred out his replacement, you would revert back to having Alonso in your team. If you had transferred out his replacement then you would continue with the driver you transferred into your team, but would be able to transfer Alonso back in upon his return if you wanted.
What if we have a repeat of 2016 whereby one driver on the grid swaps seats with another driver on the grid, like Max Verstappen and Daniil Kvyat? Using 2016 as an example, from the moment Red Bull promoted Verstappen, anyone who had originally selected Kvyat began scoring whatever points Verstappen scored, whilst those who had originally selected Verstappen started scoring the points Kvyat scored. Essentially, it is treated as a driver being replaced so as not to unbalance my carefully crafted driver groups! Of course, the big difference now is you can transfer out one (or both) drivers involved in a swap if you wished.
What if a driver and/or team is excluded from the result of a race? I won't post the results for a race until, at the earliest, Monday afternoon, and they'll usually come later in the week as it takes a little time to write it all up. So hopefully any exclusions will have been made very clear by that point. However, if a driver/team is under investigation when I post the results then they will remain unofficial until that investigation has been concluded and it all becomes official.
What if a driver or team I've selected is excluded from the overall standings, such as Schumi in '97 or McLaren in '07? I would do what I did in 2018 with Force India, and continue to consider them the same entry as they did in effect replace the previous entry in the same way as Schumacher was replaced by Salo in 1999. I realise this is a departure from the original rules, but financial woes or major infringements that result in these huge penalties shouldn't affect what is ultimately just a fun prediction game rather than an FIA sanctioned, serious sport. Not that I expect our reigning champion not to be bragging about his win all Christmas!
What if I want to make a transfer for the next race, but FP1 had already begun? I'm going to be very clear on this: no transfers will be accepted once FP1 has commenced. As I will not always be online at that moment, I will take the timestamp on any post made as a means to determine whether a transfer is permitted or not. So if FP1 is scheduled to begin at 9am GMT, if a transfer post was made at 8:59am GMT then it would be accepted; if it were made at 9:00am GMT then I will assume FP1 has commenced and it would be rejected. Of course, if the start of FP1 is delayed then I would do my best to find the exact time it began and use that time as the deadline for transfers.
What if something that hasn't been covered here happens? In that case I would put it to a vote whereby the majority would rule. I would try to run any poll for a week but if it were something that needed to be determined for the next race weekend, I would set a deadline of the start of FP1.
What if a 21st driver takes part in a race; how does that affect the transfer point costs? In that scenario, the 21st driver would, by virtue of being bottom of the WDC standings, have a value of 1 point. Every other position in the WDC would therefore see its value increased by 1 transfer point, so 1st in the WDC would cost 21 points, 2nd in the WDC would cost 20 points, and so on down to 20th, who would now cost 2 transfer points.
What if two new drivers take part in the season from the same race? We would extend the scoring as above, just by two places this time. In terms of how the values of those two drivers would be determined, as I assume neither would be officially ranked in the WDC standings until they had taken part in a race, whichever was officially confirmed for their season debut first would be deemed to be higher in the WDC standings and therefore would cost the additional transfer point.
What if a dinosaur eats Alonso? HOW will buy Honda, and the 6 tenths will be transferred equally between all teams, minus Ferrari's finder's fee.

Full Transfer Point Costs [assuming no 11th team or 21st driver]
WDC/WCC position: Driver/Team
1st: 20/40
2nd: 19/36
3rd: 18/32
4th: 17/28
5th: 16/24
6th: 15/20
7th: 14/16
8th: 13/12
9th: 12/8
10th: 11/4
11th: 10
12th: 9
13th: 8
14th: 7
15th: 6
16th: 5
17th: 4
18th: 3
19th: 2
20th: 1

Any questions, feel free to ask. I'm posting this early, but groups will be arranged after testing though I have one based on 2019 performance that those groups will partly be based on.

Post by **P-F1 Mod** » Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:54 pm

GROUPS!

Drivers:

Group 1

HAM / BOT / LEC / VET / VES

Group 2

ALB / SAI / NOR / RIC / OCO

Group 3

GAS / KVY / PER / STR / RAI

Group 4

GIO / GRO / MAG / RUS / LAT

Teams:

Group 1

MERCEDES / FERRARI / RED BULL

Group 2

McLAREN / RENAULT / ALPHA TAURI / RACING POINT

Group 3

ALFA ROMEO / HAAS / WILLIAMS

Post by **P-F1 Mod** » Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:58 pm

My picks:

Hamilton
Sainz
Perez
Grosjean (I know...!)

Mercedes
McLaren
Alfa Romeo

Tufty · Post by **Tufty** » Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:01 am

Ooh this is open! I'm in!

HAM
ALB
PER
GIO
Merc
McLaren
Alfa

Exediron · Post by **Exediron** » Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:19 am

Good to see the jokers back: hopefully with both jokers and transfers, we'll finally solve the bugbear of people just sitting on their picks and not interacting much with the thread...

I'm going to go with:

DRIVERS
#1: Hamilton
#2: Albon
#3: Perez
#4: Russell

TEAMS
#1: Mercedes
#2: McLaren
#3: Williams

A few of these are a bit bold, so I might be back to change them after the second week of testing if I get cold feet!

Post by **P-F1 Mod** » Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:32 am

The extra interaction is my hope as well, yeah.

Williams is an interesting call. I really hope you're right about them though, they deservve a good season.

Jenson's Understeer · Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:45 pm

Group 1: HAM
Group 2: ALB
Group 3: PER
Group 4: MAG

Group 1: MERCEDES
Group 2: McLAREN
Group 3: ALFA

Exediron · Post by **Exediron** » Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:57 pm

I'm changing mine, having lost a bit of optimism after the second week of testing...

DRIVERS
#1: Hamilton
#2: Albon
#3: Perez
#4: Russell

TEAMS
#1: Mercedes
#2: Racing Point
#3: Alfa Romeo

Remmirath · Post by **Remmirath** » Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:24 pm

I'm in! Maybe this can be the year where I do better-than-horribly at this one...

Drivers
Group 1: Hamilton
Group 2: Sainz
Group 3: Perez
Group 4: Giovinazzi

Teams
Group 1: Mercedes
Group 2: Racing Point
Group 3: Alfa Romeo

Post by **P-F1 Mod** » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:13 pm

Just a heads up for entrants, options can be changed as much as you like before Australia FP1 starts, as Exediron did above. No penalty for that.

coulthards chin · Post by **coulthards chin** » Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:21 pm

Group 1: Bottas
Group 2: Albon
Group 3: Perez
Group 4: Giovinazzi

Group 1: Mercedes
Group 2: Renault
Group 3: Alfa Romeo

RoboFan · Post by **RoboFan** » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:06 pm

Haven't finished reading the wall of text for rules yet, but I'll give it a go anyway. Here are my picks:

Hamilton
Sainz
Raikkonen
Magnussen

Mercedes
McLaren
Haas

Post by **Mod Blue** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:45 pm

Drivers:

Group 1: HAM
Group 2: NOR
Group 3: PER
Group 4: MAG

Teams:

Group 1: MERCEDES
Group 2: McLAREN
Group 3: HAAS

JN23 · Post by **JN23** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:00 pm

Drivers
Group 1: Hamilton
Group 2: Albon
Group 3: Perez
Group 4: Russell

Teams
Group 1: Mercedes
Group 2: McLaren
Group 3: Alfa Romeo

Icemanjee1 · Post by **Icemanjee1** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:53 am

Drivers
Group 1: Hamilton
Group 2: Albon
Group 3: Perez
Group 4. Magnussen

Teams
Group 1: Mercedes
Group 2: Mclaren
Group 3: Alfa Romeo

Herb · Post by **Herb** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:44 pm

Drivers:

Group 1: HAM

Group 2: ALB

Group 3: PER

Group 4: GRO

Teams:

Group 1: MERCEDES

Group 2: RACING POINT

Group 3: ALFA ROMEO

Post by **P-F1 Mod** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:59 am

Given the risk of losing multiple races from the calendar, the restrictions on use of each joker are rescinded except for none being permitted in whichever rounds end up forming the first 3 races.

Fountoukos13 · Post by **Fountoukos13** » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:56 pm

Hello, sorry for being late. I hope i can still enter the game.

Here are my picks if i'm eligible to participate

Drivers:
G1 Hamilton
G2 Albon
G3 Perez
G4 Magnussen

Teams
G1 Mercedes
G2 Racing Point
G3 Alfa Romeo

JN23 · Post by **JN23** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:30 pm

P-F1 Mod wrote:Given the risk of losing multiple races from the calendar, the restrictions on use of each joker are rescinded except for none being permitted in whichever rounds end up forming the first 3 races.

Can I check on this please. Does this means from race four (Britain race one), we can use the jokers however we please? If so, can we use more than one joker for the same race?

Post by **P-F1 Mod** » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:19 am

Yes and yes.

JN23 · Post by **JN23** » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:27 am

P-F1 Mod wrote:Yes and yes.

Thanks

Post by **P-F1 Mod** » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:40 am

Fountoukos13 wrote:Hello, sorry for being late. I hope i can still enter the game.

Here are my picks if i'm eligible to participate

Drivers:
G1 Hamilton
G2 Albon
G3 Perez
G4 Magnussen

Teams
G1 Mercedes
G2 Racing Point
G3 Alfa Romeo

You're in, don't worry

Post by **P-F1 Mod** » Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:54 pm

What a race that was! A huge result for McLaren, and Ferrari after their qualifying. Results are below - I'll leave off transfer points until we get to Silverstone because right now they're irrelevant. And just to reiterate an answer to a previous question, as of Silverstone you can use whatever jokers you want as well as the transfers.

1 - P-F1 MOD - 564
2 - MOD BLUE - 537
3 - JN23 - 525
4 - REMMIRATH - 514
5 - TUFTY - 512
6 - COULTHARD'S CHIN - 489
7 - ROBOFAN - 480
8 = JENSON'S UNDERSTEER - 478
8 = ICEMANJEE1 - 478
10 - EXEDIRON - 444
11 - HERB - 441
12 - FOUNTOUKOS13 - 438

Post by **P-F1 Mod** » Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:20 pm

Another great finish for Norris, while Mercedes returned to normal after the chaos of Austria. Styria's track is clearly more to their liking. Just to save messing with my spreadsheet, transfer points are now included as well in the championship standings, so everyone effectively gets a 200 point bonus now. Transfers and jokers will be the difference between Icemanjee1 and Jenson's Understeer by the look of things, but everyone else's calls are unique which is nice.

STYRIA RESULTS

1 - FOUNTOUKOS13 - 590
2 = ICEMANJEE1 - 586
2 = JENSON'S UNDERSTEER - 586
4 - HERB - 585
5 - MOD BLUE - 578
6 - TUFTY - 577
7 - JN23 - 571
8 - P-F1 MOD - 553
9 - REMMIRATH - 552
10 - EXEDIRON - 540
11 - ROBOFAN - 531
12 - COULTHARD'S CHIN - 511

CHAMPIONSHIP STANDINGS

1 - P-F1 MOD - 1317 [1 WIN]
2 - MOD BLUE - 1315
3 - JN23 - 1296
4 - TUFTY - 1289
5 = ICEMANJEE1 - 1264
5 = JENSON'S UNDERSTEER - 1264
7 - REMMIRATH - 1231
8 - FOUNTOUKOS13 - 1228 [1 WIN]
9 - HERB - 1226
10 - ROBOFAN - 1211
11 - COULTHARD'S CHIN - 1200
12 - EXEDIRON - 1184

Fountoukos13 · Post by **Fountoukos13** » Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:39 am

Heey i won!! Might have been even better if not for Perez's incident.

Post by **P-F1 Mod** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:00 pm

Not bad for a rookie! It reminds me of times in Pick 10 as well when rookies showed up and schooled the field. Not me, but competent rookies :p

Fountoukos13 · Post by **Fountoukos13** » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:44 am

P-F1 Mod wrote:Not bad for a rookie! It reminds me of times in Pick 10 as well when rookies showed up and schooled the field. Not me, but competent rookies :p

I have played these games in the past, i was just absent on the forum for like 2-3 years
I actually have a Top3 prediction team championship with BlackFlag. Very inconsistant to win anything else though...

Post by **P-F1 Mod** » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:43 pm

My bad, sorry. I only took over games in the last couple of years, so wasn't aware. Congratulations on the title!

Post by **P-F1 Mod** » Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:48 pm

Another show of strength from Mercedes, who demolished the field on pure pace despite a woeful start from Bottas giving Verstappen a slender 2nd place.

HUNGARY RESULTS

1 - FOUNTOUKOS13 - 563 [2 WINS]
2 - HERB - 537
3 = JENSON'S UNDERSTEER - 529
3 = ICEMANJEE1 - 529
5 - REMMIRATH - 514
4 - TUFTY - 500
7 - MOD BLUE - 487
8 - JN23 - 472
9 - ROBOFAN - 469
10 - EXEDIRON - 460
11 - P-F1 MOD - 455 [1 WIN]
12 - COULTHARD'S CHIN - 453

STANDINGS

1 - MOD BLUE - 1802
2 = JENSON'S UNDERSTEER - 1793
2 = ICEMANJEE1 - 1793
4 - FOUNTOUKOS13 - 1791
5 - TUFTY - 1789
6 - P-F1 MOD - 1772
7 - JN23 - 1768
8 - HERB - 1763
9 - REMMIRATH - 1745
10 - ROBOFAN - 1680
11 - COULTHARD'S CHIN - 1653
12 - EXEDIRON - 1644

Post by **P-F1 Mod** » Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:50 pm

From this point on, transfers and jokers are open! I have a feeling a lot of the jokers will be played in the second Silverstone round, so it'll be interesting to see how that works out. I should probably limit the jokers to one per race but given the uncertainty about the number of rounds, and the fact we're now into the season, I won't.

If there is any confusion about the transfers and/or jokers, please ask.

Post by **P-F1 Mod** » Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:05 pm

Results have been amended given the Haas demotions.

Fountoukos13 · Post by **Fountoukos13** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:34 pm

I actually posted in the morning a change and the post has disappeared.

Anyway i would like to change Perez to Stroll and Magnussen to Russell

Fountoukos13 · Post by **Fountoukos13** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:37 am

Fountoukos13 wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:34 pm
I actually posted in the morning a change and the post has disappeared.

Anyway i would like to change Perez to Stroll and Magnussen to Russell

Actually scratch the perez change i like Hulkenberg

Post by **P-F1 Mod** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:11 am

Single change noted for Fountoukos13, Magnussen swapped for Russell.

Anyone with Perez in their picks has Hulkenberg scoring for them this weekend. For the record, that's everyone except Robofan

Post by **P-F1 Mod** » Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:29 pm

I don't think any of us saw that happening in the last few laps! lucky that no one picked Sainz, Bottas or Hulkenberg as a joker this week.

BRITISH RESULTS

1 - EXEDIRON - 406
2 - JN23 - 401
3 - COULTHARD'S CHIN - 388
4 - TUFTY - 386
5 - MOD BLUE - 380
6 - FOUNTOUKOS13 - 368
7 = JENSON'S UNDERSTEER - 363
7 = ICEMANJEE1 - 363
9 = HERB - 357
9 = P-F1 MOD - 357
11 - REMMIRATH - 338
12 - ROBOFAN - 335

STANDINGS

1 - MOD BLUE - 2184 [200]
2 - TUFTY - 2177 [200]
3 - JN23 - 2171 [200]
4 - FOUNTOUKOS13 - 2160 [199, 2 WINS]
5 = JENSON'S UNDERSTEER - 2158 [200]
5 = ICEMANJEE1 - 2158 [200]
7 - P-F1 MOD - 2131 [200, 1 WIN]
8 - HERB - 2122 [200]
9 - REMMIRATH - 2083 [200]
10 - EXEDIRON - 2052 [200, 1 WIN]
11 - COULTHARD'S CHIN - 2042 [200]
12 - ROBOFAN - 2017 [200]

Post by **P-F1 Mod** » Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:40 pm

I'm taking the plunge for next weekend and taking Ricciardo and Renault as my driver and team group 2 jokers on the evidence of today.

JN23 · Post by **JN23** » Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:12 pm

Swap Albon out for Norris please.

And joker for group two this time: Sainz

I'm basically all in a strong McLaren weekend

Tufty · Post by **Tufty** » Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:54 pm

I think I'll have to do the same driver swap, although I'll take the AlphaTauri joker and also Williams. Long shot, but I'm hoping for high attrition in the second race.

Herb · Post by **Herb** » Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:54 am

I'll play my Group 1 joker with Verstappen please.

Exediron · Post by **Exediron** » Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:19 am

In a bold move, I'm going to use my Group Two Team joker on Racing Point. I feel that the car has pace they failed to extract last time, but won't make the same mistake twice at the same track...