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pokerman wrote:2. Exediron 177

My podium! After 20 rounds, I thought it was never going to happen - I won't have a podium-less season!

That's really all the positives I can take out of this; I've gone 3 podiums out of 4 Abu Dhabi races, and I was really hoping this would be a good one to send me off to a hopefully far more competitive season next year in 2018. Congratulations to mcdo, and TypingChicane - with two second places and mcdo retiring, you're surely going to be the one to beat for us all next year!

Predicting a Ricciardo DNF was bold, but it turned out to be the right call in the end!

Thanks for running this competition this season pokerman!

Cheers for all the appreciation, I'd given up on a top 10 placing then bag my first ever win, it kind of saved my season.

pokerman wrote:Cheers for all the appreciation, I'd given up on a top 10 placing then bag my first ever win, it kind of saved my season.

Wow, I didn't realize it was your first ever! Congratulations!

I'd happily give up my three for your one championship, though...

Exediron wrote:

pokerman wrote:Cheers for all the appreciation, I'd given up on a top 10 placing then bag my first ever win, it kind of saved my season.

Wow, I didn't realize it was your first ever! Congratulations!

I'd happily give up my three for your one championship, though...

Yeah I've only had 1 win and 4 podiums in 5 years, the year I won I didn't even get 1 podium, I must have been doing something right?

TypingChicane wrote:But just the 3 points in the end then, eh? Is that the closest ever finish?

It's not - my first year in the competition (2014) the gap was just one point:

1. pokerman 2734
2. davidb23 2733
3. Bat014 2729

TypingChicane wrote:Congratulations, mcdo! The points table never lies.
But just the 3 points in the end then, eh? Is that the closest ever finish?

My thanks to pokerman for running the Pick 10 and consistently quick delivering of the results after each race.

From looking at the picks it seems I can thank the Renault mechanics for botching Sainz's stop. One loose wheel gave me 18 points for Massa. Close one!

Good going in the Top 3, I've always considered that the tougher one

Congratulations mcdo, congratulations TypingChicane
And thank you, pokerman for running this competition.

It's my first year, and I never thought I would be in the top 10, nevermind a podium position in the championship. I'll definitely come back next season aswell

Made the top 20 so I’m happy with that, I’ll have to try next year and go for a top 10. Look forward to the next season

Would be interesting to see different kind of stats for the whole season, don´t you think so?

Like...
1. table of wins - out of all gp winners who scored how many wins
2. max points scored in a gp - top10 highest scorers for instance
3. least points scored in a gp - bottom 10
4. best spot on person - like title "apprentice" for a person who predicted most 25´ers in a gp & title "oracle" for the same for season overall
5. driver who has brought on the most points to predicters & then ofcourse opposite also - racer who has been the most useless to put into top10 prediction (this could be hard one to extract from your data, pokerman, depending on how you have stored it).

... and something else. Ideas?

Well P11 for me in my Rookie year is not too bad I think. Especially as I made at least 4 forseeable errors and sacrificed 50+ pts. (I hope winning the Massa trophy isn't a bad omen though!)

Many thanks Pokerman for organising the game. Your efforts are much appreciated.

Marck wrote:Would be interesting to see different kind of stats for the whole season, don´t you think so?

5. driver who has brought on the most points to predicters & then ofcourse opposite also - racer who has been the most useless to put into top10 prediction (this could be hard one to extract from your data, pokerman, depending on how you have stored it).

I'm guessing the worst driver to predict is Stroll, with 7 top 10 finishes, then Grosjean and Hulkenberg with 8...
Alonso did have only 5, but with Honda reliability is he worth a pick?
Best must be Hamilton with 20 top 10 finishes out of 20, 9 of them wins..

See http://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-results/20 ... standings/

Exediron wrote:

TypingChicane wrote:But just the 3 points in the end then, eh? Is that the closest ever finish?

It's not - my first year in the competition (2014) the gap was just one point:

1. pokerman 2734
2. davidb23 2733
3. Bat014 2729

Yeah that was squeaky bum time.

I could have made it easier for myself by predicting Hamilton to win like I normally did but I was more concerned with him being Champion so I didn't put all my eggs in the same basket sort to speak, otherwise I would have won by 8 points, still close though.

paul85 wrote:Congratulations mcdo, congratulations TypingChicane
And thank you, pokerman for running this competition.

It's my first year, and I never thought I would be in the top 10, nevermind a podium position in the championship. I'll definitely come back next season aswell

I will sort out your rookie trophy today Paul.

Marck wrote:Would be interesting to see different kind of stats for the whole season, don´t you think so?

Like...
1. table of wins - out of all gp winners who scored how many wins
2. max points scored in a gp - top10 highest scorers for instance
3. least points scored in a gp - bottom 10
4. best spot on person - like title "apprentice" for a person who predicted most 25´ers in a gp & title "oracle" for the same for season overall
5. driver who has brought on the most points to predicters & then ofcourse opposite also - racer who has been the most useless to put into top10 prediction (this could be hard one to extract from your data, pokerman, depending on how you have stored it).

... and something else. Ideas?

That would keep me busy until Christmas.

By the way Marck do you realise that you incurred 123 penalty points this season without which you would have finished 3rd just 11 points behind the Champion, mcdo.

tim3003 wrote:Well P11 for me in my Rookie year is not too bad I think. Especially as I made at least 4 forseeable errors and sacrificed 50+ pts. (I hope winning the Massa trophy isn't a bad omen though!)

Many thanks Pokerman for organising the game. Your efforts are much appreciated.

Cheers Tim, sorry for knocking you out of the top 10, I'm not sure were I managed to pull my final result from?

Special Awards

The Esteban Ocon Rookie of the Season Award

paul85

The Lewis Hamilton Pole Position Award for the highest score of 194

mcdo

The Mercedes WCC Award for the most Podiums with 5

Jenson's Understeer

The Sauber Award for the lowest scoring competitor who completed the season

specdecible

The Daniil Kvyat Penalty Award for the most penalties of 144 points

Fountoukos13

Marck wrote:Would be interesting to see different kind of stats for the whole season, don´t you think so?

Like...
1. table of wins - out of all gp winners who scored how many wins
2. max points scored in a gp - top10 highest scorers for instance
3. least points scored in a gp - bottom 10
4. best spot on person - like title "apprentice" for a person who predicted most 25´ers in a gp & title "oracle" for the same for season overall
5. driver who has brought on the most points to predicters & then ofcourse opposite also - racer who has been the most useless to put into top10 prediction (this could be hard one to extract from your data, pokerman, depending on how you have stored it).

... and something else. Ideas?

Pokerman, if you have these in an excel file, I am more than happy to pull some analysis together - wouldn't take too long - drop me a PM.

I feel now is the time to talk about default points for competitors that forget to select an entry, first of all what is the consensus for doing this, secondly what penalty should be applied, lowest score -1 point, or lowest score -25 points?

Thanks pokerman for this years competition. My first one, it was fun!

Was hoping to win the ''Rookie of the year'' with my two wins though!

pokerman wrote:I feel now is the time to talk about default points for competitors that forget to select an entry, first of all what is the consensus for doing this, secondly what penalty should be applied, lowest score -1 point, or lowest score -25 points?

My latest thought is to base it on the median (ie middle) score in a race divided by 2. So for Abu Dhabi as there were 31 entrants the median is the 16th (okay joint 15th) which was 158, /2 = 79.
As the last genuine score was 113, 79 seems a fair stay-in-the-game penalty. As the median reflects the range of race scores it will cope with high or low scoring races where - say last -20 - would sometimes be worse than others.

I also think that to qualify for the default, and to prove the player is still interested, they should contact Pokerman and apologise for not submitting an entry in time, and do this before the race results are published.

ps: how about allowing entries after qualifying, with say 35pts penalty? You could still set a deadline of say 2 hours before race start..

I think if you don't enter, you don't score.

I also think penalties for entries after practice should be increased. We've had quite a lot of people missing P1, so waiting the extra sessions at only a small further penalty.

Warheart01 wrote:Thanks pokerman for this years competition. My first one, it was fun!

Was hoping to win the ''Rookie of the year'' with my two wins though!

The missed round didn't help.

tim3003 wrote:

pokerman wrote:I feel now is the time to talk about default points for competitors that forget to select an entry, first of all what is the consensus for doing this, secondly what penalty should be applied, lowest score -1 point, or lowest score -25 points?

My latest thought is to base it on the median (ie middle) score in a race divided by 2. So for Abu Dhabi as there were 31 entrants the median is the 16th (okay joint 15th) which was 158, /2 = 79.
As the last genuine score was 113, 79 seems a fair stay-in-the-game penalty. As the median reflects the range of race scores it will cope with high or low scoring races where - say last -20 - would sometimes be worse than others.

I also think that to qualify for the default, and to prove the player is still interested, they should contact Pokerman and apologise for not submitting an entry in time, and do this before the race results are published.

ps: how about allowing entries after qualifying, with say 35pts penalty? You could still set a deadline of say 2 hours before race start..

I think qualifying definitely stays as the deadline, there's no real skill in using the qualifying grid.

That's two completely opposite views, one wants more leniency whilst the other wants more stringent penalties.

tim3003 wrote:ps: how about allowing entries after qualifying, with say 35pts penalty? You could still set a deadline of say 2 hours before race start..

I would do that every single time if it was legal - I'd expect to be able to score 200-250 less 35 every race, which isn't bad at all!

In fact, considering the vast gap in my form (#3 in the world vs. #19 out of about thirty) between this competition and the Autosport GP competition - where the main difference is that you can use practice information - I'm strongly considering trying the strategy of taking the FP3 penalty every weekend next year. In which case if you want to stop me, upping the penalties wouldn't be a bad idea.

Exediron wrote:

tim3003 wrote:ps: how about allowing entries after qualifying, with say 35pts penalty? You could still set a deadline of say 2 hours before race start..

I would do that every single time if it was legal - I'd expect to be able to score 200-250 less 35 every race, which isn't bad at all!

In fact, considering the vast gap in my form (#3 in the world vs. #19 out of about thirty) between this competition and the Autosport GP competition - where the main difference is that you can use practice information - I'm strongly considering trying the strategy of taking the FP3 penalty every weekend next year. In which case if you want to stop me, upping the penalties wouldn't be a bad idea.

Maybe you could be the guinea pig to see if the penalties are sufficient?

pokerman wrote:

Exediron wrote:

tim3003 wrote:ps: how about allowing entries after qualifying, with say 35pts penalty? You could still set a deadline of say 2 hours before race start..

I would do that every single time if it was legal - I'd expect to be able to score 200-250 less 35 every race, which isn't bad at all!

In fact, considering the vast gap in my form (#3 in the world vs. #19 out of about thirty) between this competition and the Autosport GP competition - where the main difference is that you can use practice information - I'm strongly considering trying the strategy of taking the FP3 penalty every weekend next year. In which case if you want to stop me, upping the penalties wouldn't be a bad idea.

Maybe you could be the guinea pig to see if the penalties are sufficient?

I might just take you up on that!

I did it!!!

pokerman wrote:
The Sauber Award for the lowest scoring competitor who completed the season

specdecible

wait...




F**k me

Exediron wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Exediron wrote:

tim3003 wrote:ps: how about allowing entries after qualifying, with say 35pts penalty? You could still set a deadline of say 2 hours before race start..

I would do that every single time if it was legal - I'd expect to be able to score 200-250 less 35 every race, which isn't bad at all!

In fact, considering the vast gap in my form (#3 in the world vs. #19 out of about thirty) between this competition and the Autosport GP competition - where the main difference is that you can use practice information - I'm strongly considering trying the strategy of taking the FP3 penalty every weekend next year. In which case if you want to stop me, upping the penalties wouldn't be a bad idea.

Maybe you could be the guinea pig to see if the penalties are sufficient?

I might just take you up on that!

Exediron - out of my 7 times, when I received penalty and what pokerman also highlighted - total 123-points (6x18p + 1x15p) - I can conclude it only served me well 1 time (Monaco, if remembering well) - there I gained more than penalty took away after changing.
All others I have lost or pretty much same outcome.
The greatest backfire came from Baku - everybody scored so few points and then having -18p from already low scores hit especially hard!

So my conclusion is that I would not pursue that approach next season (although I didn´t change every time intentionally - many times I just forgot and had to bear with it).

tim3003 - your idea of having median/2 for particular weekend scores for all forgetters is I think good one.
pokerman - I am also in favor of hard-stop deadline after missing qualifying start (and not -35p or else).

Marck wrote:Exediron - out of my 7 times, when I received penalty and what pokerman also highlighted - total 123-points (6x18p + 1x15p) - I can conclude it only served me well 1 time (Monaco, if remembering well) - there I gained more than penalty took away after changing.
All others I have lost or pretty much same outcome.
The greatest backfire came from Baku - everybody scored so few points and then having -18p from already low scores hit especially hard!

You could be right. A hypothetical comparison between what I predicted for Abu Dhabi here (before FP1) and in the Autosport GP Predictor (after FP3) would yield the following final scores:

PICK 10: HAM / VET / BOT / VER / RAI / OCO / PER / MAS / ALO / HUL (177 - 0 = 177)
AUTOSPORT: HAM / BOT / VET / RAI / RIC / VER / PER / OCO / ALO / MAS (204 - 25 = 179)

It's only marginally ahead for the post-FP3 predictions, but that's because I took a crazy gamble in the Pick 10 and didn't put Ricciardo in my predictions. I have a strong feeling that a net score of 150-170 should be achievable most weekends with access to the FP3 information, and if so averaging somewhere around there would be handily enough to put oneself in contention.

Exediron wrote:

tim3003 wrote:ps: how about allowing entries after qualifying, with say 35pts penalty? You could still set a deadline of say 2 hours before race start..

I would do that every single time if it was legal - I'd expect to be able to score 200-250 less 35 every race, which isn't bad at all!

There was one race - I forget which, where my top 10 picks were all bang on for the grid. However come the race I didn't do especially well. Have a look at how often the grid matches the finishing order..

I'm also assuming there would be a large enough penalty to discourage people doing it too often. if not 35 then maybe 50? Anyway, if Il Commendatore says no then no it is!

I do think the FP2 penalty should go up to 20. As FP2 is often run at the same time as quali and the race it's a better indicator of form, and only 3pts extra on the FP1 penalty doesnt seem to reflect that to me..

Marck wrote:

Exediron wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Exediron wrote:

tim3003 wrote:ps: how about allowing entries after qualifying, with say 35pts penalty? You could still set a deadline of say 2 hours before race start..

I would do that every single time if it was legal - I'd expect to be able to score 200-250 less 35 every race, which isn't bad at all!

In fact, considering the vast gap in my form (#3 in the world vs. #19 out of about thirty) between this competition and the Autosport GP competition - where the main difference is that you can use practice information - I'm strongly considering trying the strategy of taking the FP3 penalty every weekend next year. In which case if you want to stop me, upping the penalties wouldn't be a bad idea.

Maybe you could be the guinea pig to see if the penalties are sufficient?

I might just take you up on that!

Exediron - out of my 7 times, when I received penalty and what pokerman also highlighted - total 123-points (6x18p + 1x15p) - I can conclude it only served me well 1 time (Monaco, if remembering well) - there I gained more than penalty took away after changing.
All others I have lost or pretty much same outcome.
The greatest backfire came from Baku - everybody scored so few points and then having -18p from already low scores hit especially hard!

So my conclusion is that I would not pursue that approach next season (although I didn´t change every time intentionally - many times I just forgot and had to bear with it).

tim3003 - your idea of having median/2 for particular weekend scores for all forgetters is I think good one.
pokerman - I am also in favor of hard-stop deadline after missing qualifying start (and not -35p or else).

I believe Jenson's Understeer benefited greatly early in the season from changing his picks after FP3 after realising his original picks were not very good, later in the season he did the same in Singapore but the leaders crashed out and it was a low scoring round and he ended up with 42 points, a net loss of 75 points on his original picks, it very much took the sails out of his season, he would have won the title, once bitten he never did that again.

tim3003 wrote:

Exediron wrote:

tim3003 wrote:ps: how about allowing entries after qualifying, with say 35pts penalty? You could still set a deadline of say 2 hours before race start..

I would do that every single time if it was legal - I'd expect to be able to score 200-250 less 35 every race, which isn't bad at all!

There was one race - I forget which, where my top 10 picks were all bang on for the grid. However come the race I didn't do especially well. Have a look at how often the grid matches the finishing order..

I'm also assuming there would be a large enough penalty to discourage people doing it too often. if not 35 then maybe 50? Anyway, if Il Commendatore says no then no it is!

I do think the FP2 penalty should go up to 20. As FP2 is often run at the same time as quali and the race it's a better indicator of form, and only 3pts extra on the FP1 penalty doesnt seem to reflect that to me..

One big thing I would have against it is that it takes away the skill from the game, you might as well have a robot playing for you, and you could have several people doing it so your not actually standing out from the crowd, were is the achievement?

In this regard the size of the penalty doesn't matter it would be just as much of a case as people not actually playing the game.

One way to deal with the forgotten picks dilemma would be to go one further step towards a F1 points system; the player with the highest score in the round gets 25p for the championship, the next one 18p and so on. This way all rounds would be equally important and missing a round wouldn't ruin your championship.

I'm just throwing this out there, am not sure if it's such a great idea. It would certainly change the dynamic in the competition, for better or worse.

Covalent wrote:One way to deal with the forgotten picks dilemma would be to go one further step towards a F1 points system; the player with the highest score in the round gets 25p for the championship, the next one 18p and so on. This way all rounds would be equally important and missing a round wouldn't ruin your championship.

I'm just throwing this out there, am not sure if it's such a great idea. It would certainly change the dynamic in the competition, for better or worse.

For the worse in my opinion.

Here's another idea: Add in forecasting which driver does the fastest race lap. 5pts if you're right..

tim3003 wrote:Here's another idea: Add in forecasting which driver does the fastest race lap. 5pts if you're right..

Maybe pole position instead as fastest lap is so random these days?

tim3003 wrote:Here's another idea: Add in forecasting which driver does the fastest race lap. 5pts if you're right..

Bernie is that you?

There's nothing wrong with the basic points scoring system I was just canvassing opinion on default points for missed entries.

I agree 100% with what Herb said. If you miss an entry, you don't score points that weekend plain and simple.

I actually like how the points system is right now. You can try and cheat the system as Jenson did pointed out by Pokerman, but once you get bitten, it's a hefty price to pay. If anything all I would discuss is altering the penalty system. For example:

FP1: 10 points
FP2: 25 points
FP3/Qualy: 35 points

Because FP1 is often earlier and can be at a inconvenient time sometimes but definitely a hefty penalty should be applied for FP2 since that's where we get a good indication of race pace. FP3 or Qualy should be the same penalty in my opinion and a bigger one.

I don't really care for bonus points for pole or fastest laps.