Red Bull may sue a micro brewery

FringeUK · Post by **FringeUK** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:02 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-23697138

just seen this on BBC news - and I am amazed that Red Bull would do such a thing. I personally see no resemblance to Red Bull's product whatsoever!!

Alienturnedhuman · Post by **Alienturnedhuman** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:14 pm

I imagine this will be dropped because of the negative publicity it will cause Red Bull.

They named their company after the street the brewery is on, it is not like it is a name they engineered - or even accidentally came up with - to be similar to the name Red Bull.

Also Red Bull is a soft drink not a beer.

FringeUK · Post by **FringeUK** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:19 pm

Alienturnedhuman wrote:I imagine this will be dropped because of the negative publicity it will cause Red Bull.

They named their company after the street the brewery is on, it is not like it is a name they engineered - or even accidentally came up with - to be similar to the name Red Bull.

Also Red Bull is a soft drink not a beer.

absolutely agree. This looks rather like some big company trying to flex its muscle to me? On the other hand, if I'm ever in Norwich I'll call buy and buy a case of their beer just on principal!

minchy · Post by **minchy** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:02 pm

I really can't see any similarity other than both companies have red at the start of their names. What are they going to do next? Take every Red Lion pub to court over their names, or maybe a lot of small business in the north east based in Redcar?

Black_Flag_11 · Post by **Black_Flag_11** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:09 pm

No doubt they gave it a shot with these as well, if these guys are safe id say Redwell are pretty safe.

As Alien says it will likely be dropped before it gets any further, seems like Red Bull tried to scare them and didnt expect a little company like this to make the press.

Jimbox01 · Post by **Jimbox01** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:57 pm

A large French hotel chain tried something similar with us once (to do with domain names), but we just told them to sod off and stop being so stupid - never heard anything after that.

If I were Redwell I'd politely thank them for the free publicity and then tell them to get lost. If they really want to pick on someone, they should try Coors - they sell a beer called Red Bull.

Argentum · Post by **Argentum** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:21 pm

Redwell brewery, which employs just eight people in Norwich, has been told by the firm its name could "confuse" customers

Maybe it's me, but aren't Rad Bull imlying that they think their customers are morons, who can't tell the two products apart?

minchy · Post by **minchy** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:48 pm

Argentum wrote:
Redwell brewery, which employs just eight people in Norwich, has been told by the firm its name could "confuse" customers

Maybe it's me, but aren't Rad Bull imlying that they think their customers are morons, who can't tell the two products apart?

Well Ford made Ferrari change the name of their f100 f1 car in case it's customers got confused when looking for their f-100 pick up!!!!!!

moby · Post by **moby** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:51 pm

So red stripe will have to be renamed as will Redbox redback and Redding
Red label may even have a case against Red bullox as they used the name first

painless · Post by **painless** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:00 pm

One can only be relieved that Red Rum is Kennomeat now.

Alienturnedhuman · Post by **Alienturnedhuman** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:02 pm

minchy wrote:
Argentum wrote:
Redwell brewery, which employs just eight people in Norwich, has been told by the firm its name could "confuse" customers

Maybe it's me, but aren't Rad Bull imlying that they think their customers are morons, who can't tell the two products apart?

Well Ford made Ferrari change the name of their f100 f1 car in case it's customers got confused when looking for their f-100 pick up!!!!!!

As funny as that was, that wasn't the real reason.

The reason for it was that it was Ford's most powerful brand and had they not hunted Ferrari down on that it would have given Fiat a claim to it as well.

And it was identical F-150 and F-150 - whereas Red Bull and Redwell have many, many differences.

Prema · Post by **Prema** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:23 pm

Black_Flag_11 wrote:As Alien says it will likely be dropped before it gets any further, seems like Red Bull tried to scare them and didnt expect a little company like this to make the press.

That was absolutely the best course of action for the tiny brewery to go public. Getting the publicity and the sympathy from the public. Now even I know for Redwell, and if to see it anywhere in the shop, I would try it out.

mac_d · Post by **mac_d** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:31 pm

I can tell the difference between them. Not only can I read, the look completely different and are almost certainly going to be in different places in the supermarket. I hope they drop it in embarrassment or take it to court and lose.

f1madman · Post by **f1madman** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:35 pm

Just a drinks company it seems after all.

Underviewer · Post by **Underviewer** » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:02 pm

Black_Flag_11 wrote:

No doubt they gave it a shot with these as well, if these guys are safe id say Redwell are pretty safe.

As Alien says it will likely be dropped before it gets any further, seems like Red Bull tried to scare them and didnt expect a little company like this to make the press.

Exactly. Red Bull are basically trying to stop people using the word 'Red' in a drink's name. Stupid.

raceman · Post by **raceman** » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:18 am

Underviewer wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:

No doubt they gave it a shot with these as well, if these guys are safe id say Redwell are pretty safe.

As Alien says it will likely be dropped before it gets any further, seems like Red Bull tried to scare them and didnt expect a little company like this to make the press.

Exactly. Red Bull are basically trying to stop people using the word 'Red' in a drink's name. Stupid.

They have trademarked RED so I can see their why they'd be peeved with the similarity to the images above. In any case, this is excellent news for the brewery! Don't you guys see that this is great free publicity? I would've never heard of Redwell if it had not been for the BBC article and on top of it, who doesn't love an underdog? A small microbrewery founded by four friends vs. the evil multinational that is Red Bull. If I were Redwell, I'd be jumping up and down with joy.

Jimbox01 · Post by **Jimbox01** » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:08 am

raceman wrote:
Underviewer wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:

No doubt they gave it a shot with these as well, if these guys are safe id say Redwell are pretty safe.

As Alien says it will likely be dropped before it gets any further, seems like Red Bull tried to scare them and didnt expect a little company like this to make the press.

Exactly. Red Bull are basically trying to stop people using the word 'Red' in a drink's name. Stupid.

They have trademarked RED so I can see their why they'd be peeved with the similarity to the images above. In any case, this is excellent news for the brewery! Don't you guys see that this is great free publicity? I would've never heard of Redwell if it had not been for the BBC article and on top of it, who doesn't love an underdog? A small microbrewery founded by four friends vs. the evil multinational that is Red Bull. If I were Redwell, I'd be jumping up and down with joy.

I had a quick look on the UK IP office site, and lots of companies have registered Red as a trademark, but not Red Bull.
Also, you have to pick a trade calssification when you register a trademark, and all the trademarks Red Bull have registered specifically exclude beer - they include alcoholic beverages, but not beer.

There is no way they can go after Redwell for trademark infringement, and they're clearly not passing off, so you'd have to assume Red Bull has an alert setup at Companies House, to tell them when ever a new company is registered with a name containing the word 'red', and this automatically triggers a warning letter - from RB, not companies House. It's quite likely they don't even bother to check who they're sending their warning letter out to.

It's terrific free publicity though.

Mr-E · Post by **Mr-E** » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:23 am

Good PR for Redwell, a small company I had never heard of. Bad PR for Red Bull. No way Red Bull will win this one even if they bring on Dr Marko to give them the evil death stare.

Red Bull, the new Metallica.

enchantment25 · Post by **enchantment25** » Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:48 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-23705255

Red Bull ends the dispute as predicted, though only as long as they don't produce energy drinks

mac_d · Post by **mac_d** » Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:21 pm

enchantment25 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-23705255

Red Bull ends the dispute as predicted, though only as long as they don't produce energy drinks

Good. Made the legal bit of Red Bull look like bullies. However, Redwell must be over the moon. I have never heard of them yesterday...

_Rogue_ · Post by **_Rogue_** » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:42 pm

A Red Bull spokesman said: "There is no dispute here.

"Red Bull has long been willing to allow Redwell to maintain its mark for beer so long as they do not use it for energy drinks."

I still don't understand how Redbull feel that they have any right to say what the Redwell brewery produces... By the sound of this statement they still think they own the trademark? The brewery is named after a street in Norwich that has been around for far longer than a certain drinks company...
And on a side note I can wholeheartedly recommend their beer

Black_Flag_11 · Post by **Black_Flag_11** » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:55 pm

_Rogue_ wrote:A Red Bull spokesman said: "There is no dispute here.

"Red Bull has long been willing to allow Redwell to maintain its mark for beer so long as they do not use it for energy drinks."

I still don't understand how Redbull feel that they have any right to say what the Redwell brewery produces... By the sound of this statement they still think they own the trademark? The brewery is named after a street in Norwich that has been around for far longer than a certain drinks company...
And on a side note I can wholeheartedly recommend their beer

In fairness I can understand the dispute if they made energy drinks. The claim is that the name sounds similar, so therefore Redwell would be leaching off Red Bull's millions spent on advertising, likely Redwell would be told they can sell energy drinks provided they give Red Bull a ludicrous amount of money.

If Redwell made energy drinks it would be a clear cut case in Red Bull's favour IMO. But as it stands Redwell will be fine, and have benefited from the publicity.

CarlPotter · Post by **CarlPotter** » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:06 pm

I disagree with you on this one, Black Flag, which is unusual! I don't see how "well" and "bull" sound similar at all. Completely different meaning to the words also, so I just don't see how Red Bull could win that one. It just looks like bullying tactics from what I've read.

minchy · Post by **minchy** » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:29 pm

CarlPotter wrote:I disagree with you on this one, Black Flag, which is unusual! I don't see how "well" and "bull" sound similar at all. Completely different meaning to the words also, so I just don't see how Red Bull could win that one. It just looks like bullying tactics from what I've read.

don't forget that red bull are 2 words and Redwell is 1, plus the fact that it named after the location it is located (

) would give Redwell a key advantage if it ever came to court. Although from what I have read, a 'settlement' could well be as black flag says, that Redwell must pay Red Bull a large sum of money for branching into the energy drink market.

Mr-E · Post by **Mr-E** » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:30 pm

CarlPotter wrote:I disagree with you on this one, Black Flag, which is unusual! I don't see how "well" and "bull" sound similar at all. Completely different meaning to the words also, so I just don't see how Red Bull could win that one. It just looks like bullying tactics from what I've read.

Be careful using the word "bullying".. They might sue you.

Robbo-92 · Post by **Robbo-92** » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:58 pm

If today was the 1st of April I would have thought this was the BBC's April fools joke article, but unfortunoutely it's not the 1st of April so I have to take this seriously that Red Bull are actually thinking of suing a company that employs 8 people.

Blake · Post by **Blake** » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:03 pm

Mr-E wrote:Be careful using the word "bullying".. They might sue you.

Only if you call it Red Bullying....

Black_Flag_11 · Post by **Black_Flag_11** » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:06 pm

Blake wrote:
Mr-E wrote:Be careful using the word "bullying".. They might sue you.

Only if you call it Red Bullying....

Youve done it now Blake, "PF1 Forum to be sued by Red Bull for the mocking use of the brand name"

Neutrality · Post by **Neutrality** » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:20 pm

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Mr-E wrote:Be careful using the word "bullying".. They might sue you.

Only if you call it Red Bullying....

Youve done it now Blake, "PF1 Forum to be sued by Red Bull for the mocking use of the brand name"

It's strange that people pick up on the publicity gained by the brewery but not Red Bull. There is no such such thing as bad publicity! Perhaps "bullying" this company is all just a publicity stunt, after all we are all talking about red bull are we not

Blake · Post by **Blake** » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:30 pm

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Mr-E wrote:Be careful using the word "bullying".. They might sue you.

Only if you call it Red Bullying....

Youve done it now Blake, "PF1 Forum to be sued by Red Bull for the mocking use of the brand name"

Maybe we should "register" that phrase, surely Red Bull has not trademarked that ... yet! Then we could use it whenever we see bullying in the forum....

Gothalamide · Post by **Gothalamide** » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:26 pm

minchy wrote:
CarlPotter wrote:I disagree with you on this one, Black Flag, which is unusual! I don't see how "well" and "bull" sound similar at all. Completely different meaning to the words also, so I just don't see how Red Bull could win that one. It just looks like bullying tactics from what I've read.

don't forget that red bull are 2 words and Redwell is 1, plus the fact that it named after the location it is located ( ) would give Redwell a key advantage if it ever came to court. Although from what I have read, a 'settlement' could well be as black flag says, that Redwell must pay Red Bull a large sum of money for branching into the energy drink market.

Location isn't a clear deciding factor at all...

Just ask Bath Ales and Abbey Ales (who wanted to create Bath Brewing Company) - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-23194146

Before looking at the link, guess which one is based in Bath and which one isn't...

moby · Post by **moby** » Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:08 pm

Neutrality wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Mr-E wrote:Be careful using the word "bullying".. They might sue you.

Only if you call it Red Bullying....

Youve done it now Blake, "PF1 Forum to be sued by Red Bull for the mocking use of the brand name"

It's strange that people pick up on the publicity gained by the brewery but not Red Bull. There is no such such thing as bad publicity! Perhaps "bullying" this company is all just a publicity stunt, after all we are all talking about red bull are we not

Cant recall who said (Dietrich?) there is only one thing worse than being talked about.

thats not being talked about

Edit, just googled it it was Oscar Wilde

RacingFan1 · Post by **RacingFan1** » Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:53 am

Lol that's ridiculous.

As ridiculous as Apple suing Samsung.

Argentum · Post by **Argentum** » Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:44 am

In order to benefit from all the free publicity, think I might start a couple of companies, called Red Ball and Red Bell.

Maybe I could be known as Red Bill, or change my name to Rod Bull, and start my own website?

If only I could think of something to sell. Cough medicine as a beverage, perhaps?

CarlPotter · Post by **CarlPotter** » Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:14 am

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Mr-E wrote:Be careful using the word "bullying".. They might sue you.

Only if you call it Red Bullying....

Youve done it now Blake, "PF1 Forum to be sued by Red Bull for the mocking use of the brand name"

Crikey, the mods are going to be busy with all these lawsuits. I don't think they've settled with Bernie yet for using "F1" in their domain name! :lol:

Prema · Post by **Prema** » Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:20 pm

Neutrality wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Mr-E wrote:Be careful using the word "bullying".. They might sue you.

Only if you call it Red Bullying....

Youve done it now Blake, "PF1 Forum to be sued by Red Bull for the mocking use of the brand name"

It's strange that people pick up on the publicity gained by the brewery but not Red Bull. There is no such such thing as bad publicity! Perhaps "bullying" this company is all just a publicity stunt, after all we are all talking about red bull are we not

When someone is already established and is a well recognized brand in the world, then for them a bad publicity may be just that - a bad publicity. Such companies do not really want it. For "nobodies", it may be so that any publicity is better than no publicity.

mac_d · Post by **mac_d** » Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:25 pm

There is such a thing as bad publicity.

CarlPotter · Post by **CarlPotter** » Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:37 pm

mac_d wrote:There is such a thing as bad publicity.

Yep. Pretty sure Dave Lee Travis isn't best pleased with the publicity he's getting at the moment!

Prema · Post by **Prema** » Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:20 pm

mac_d wrote:There is such a thing as bad publicity.

Like anything. It can be a very destructive power for established businesses and public figures like in politics for example. Just put "damage control for bad publicity" into the search bar...

RaggedMan · Post by **RaggedMan** » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:49 pm

_Rogue_ wrote:A Red Bull spokesman said: "There is no dispute here.

"Red Bull has long been willing to allow Redwell to maintain its mark for beer so long as they do not use it for energy drinks."

I still don't understand how Redbull feel that they have any right to say what the Redwell brewery produces... By the sound of this statement they still think they own the trademark? The brewery is named after a street in Norwich that has been around for far longer than a certain drinks company...
And on a side note I can wholeheartedly recommend their beer

I don't know how trademark law works in the UK but here if you don't defend a trademark that you have registered (even if you're not currently using it) then you lose the rights to it. Sending out letters like this is busy work for the lawyers, well their staff at least, to justify their existence.