planetf1.com

You decide..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CfO8k8Ib0Q

Real as in of alien origin or real as in unidentified by of earthly origin?

UFO's are real, im currently sitting at work, if I throw my Post-it pad at my college and shout her name, for the brief moment she see's it coming toward her it will be an Unidentified Flying Object to her.

Alien space ships are not real however.

I think most UFOs are innocent things. Weird clouds. Low flying commerical planes. Balloons and the mundane. A small proportion, especially in the USA, I'd think would probably be some secret aircraft testing.

I doubt we are visited by alien species.

So, is a UFO still a UFO if someone human can identify it? For instance, is Black_Flag's example really a UFO if he can identify it? I can't identify a great many things but they aren't unidentified really are they? In short, I think they are ALL of human origin until someone shows me any kind of reasonable proof that suggests that an extra-terrestrial origin is more likely than a terrestrial one.

Black_Flag_11 wrote:UFO's are real, im currently sitting at work, if I throw my Post-it pad at my college and shout her name, for the brief moment she see's it coming toward her it will be an Unidentified Flying Object to her.

Alien space ships are not real however.

i don't think its good science just to use a post-it pad, i would try various objects to see if the same result is obtained.

I voted Real, as Unidentified flying objects are real and most 'sky watchers', Amateur and professional, see some most days.

Visitors from beyond our world in vehicles, I am skeptical about though.

Most of those shown are either without any way to scale either size or speed, or quite obviously something 'ordinary' like the parachute in the vid, or one that was shown to be of a triangle with the underside glowing, which when you brighten the pic becomes an aircraft in a bank and looking straight up the tail pipe.

Mind, of all the hundreds I have seen, there are just a few that I would believe

http://xkcd.com/1235/

Don't know, but anyone remember this? Or what about Space 1999?

They don't make 'em like they used to anymore.

The arguments in favour of the existence of extra-terrestrial species have been well rehearsed: An infinite number of stars, some with life-friendly planets equals a certainty of life existing elsewhere. OK let's say we buy that. So Joe alien builds a space ship, arrives here but always chooses a remote location, maybe indulges in a little abduction (with or without probing) and then promptly *inaudible* off home. This aspect is a little more difficult to accept. Most of the other "incidents" are variations on the same theme.
I am prepared to keep an open mind but I'm going to want to see some pretty compelling evidence!

painless wrote:The arguments in favour of the existence of extra-terrestrial species have been well rehearsed: An infinite number of stars, some with life-friendly planets equals a certainty of life existing elsewhere. OK let's say we buy that. So Joe alien builds a space ship, arrives here but always chooses a remote location, maybe indulges in a little abduction (with or without probing) and then promptly *inaudible* off home. This aspect is a little more difficult to accept. Most of the other "incidents" are variations on the same theme.
I am prepared to keep an open mind but I'm going to want to see some pretty compelling evidence!

This 'An infinite number of stars,' works both ways. If Alien Joe went to 50 every year they would still be produced to leave a greater number than he has visited, we may be one of those.

Of course, it could just be that the Galactic police have told every one not to interfere with us until we become a space faring race.

painless wrote:The arguments in favour of the existence of extra-terrestrial species have been well rehearsed: An infinite number of stars, some with life-friendly planets equals a certainty of life existing elsewhere. OK let's say we buy that. So Joe alien builds a space ship, arrives here but always chooses a remote location, maybe indulges in a little abduction (with or without probing) and then promptly *inaudible* off home. This aspect is a little more difficult to accept. Most of the other "incidents" are variations on the same theme.
I am prepared to keep an open mind but I'm going to want to see some pretty compelling evidence!

Just like human explorers such as Darwin did?
I know that it's a polemic, but studying new things often means doing so without interfering with its natural state and habitat, or at least trying not to.

c'mon guys, everyone knows first contact with extra-terrestrial life does not happen until Zefram Cochrane's historic first Warp Drive flight in April 2063. duh.

On a related note, did anyone see the thing earlier in the year about the Canadian Minister of Defence (and I think some US senators/congressmen) publically calling for disclosure on a possible ET signal picked up by radio telescope?

Don’t know if they are conspiracy theorists but I am surprised there statements alone were not more newsworthy given their seniority.

bbobeckyj wrote: studying new things often means doing so without interfering with its natural state and habitat, or at least trying not to.

moby wrote:Of course, it could just be that the Galactic police have told every one not to interfere with us

Ah Ha! So maybe we're an endangered species. A sort of galactic Giant Panda or Greater Spotted Wotsit. Problem solved, they're real!

AngusWolfe wrote:c'mon guys, everyone knows first contact with extra-terrestrial life does not happen until Zefram Cochrane's historic first Warp Drive flight in April 2063. duh.

That would be logical

Biffa wrote:On a related note, did anyone see the thing earlier in the year about the Canadian Minister of Defence (and I think some US senators/congressmen) publically calling for disclosure on a possible ET signal picked up by radio telescope?

Don’t know if they are conspiracy theorists but I am surprised there statements alone were not more newsworthy given their seniority.

There was one, generally refer to as 'WOW', after what the technician wrote on the printout (before photocopying it, so it was on everyones fax)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow!_signal

I would say plausible but unlikely.

I don't believe UFO sightings are alien spaceships but I am open minded about the possibility of alien life, why not?

True story though. When I was about 18 a few friends and I were out at night in the countryside. We saw something in the sky that appeared to land in a field we were overlooking, then disappear back into the sky. It moved too quickly to be a helicopter. But the weird thing is 10 minutes later three 4x4's steamed into the field and bounced about for a bit in the area we'd seen the 'something' appear to 'land'. We were into the X-Files at the time, and this is exactly the sort of scenario the show loved, so we kind of put it down to over-imagination or something. But if I'm honest that just isn't a satisfactory explanation. I can't believe it was aliens, or even some secret government project. But I've never been able to explain it either.

Real..

I want to work for Shado

(Thats 'Supreme Headquarters, Alien Defence Organisation' to the young )

Fake.

I can accept the theory that with such a large cosmos, life on other planets does exist. But the universe is such a huge place, travel and communication is difficult at best. if (and I don't believe it's true) other alien species decided to visit us unannounced, they could just sit outside the orbit of mars and learn 99% of what they desire. There is no need to make a visit on the surface (which in itself is a difficult process).

If they were hostile, they could just push a few hundred large chunks of rock into a collision course, and we would not be aware of their existence until observers discovered a few hundred chunks of rock coming out way, to turn the surface into a cauldron of fire for the next thousand years. No warning, no defense, game over.

The root cause of this belief is out egos, some think so highly of ourselves that somehow we believe we have something unique and wonderful, so much that other species will travel thousands of light years to probe our rectums.

Unidentified Flying Objects are real; I see some on most working days.

UFOs could also mean unidentified floating object, like that thing you see coming towards you while you're bathing happily in the beach. If you're lucky, it wouldn't turn out to be dog turd.

minchy wrote:Real as in of alien origin or real as in unidentified by of earthly origin?

Unidentified by earthly origin.

Thanks for the response guys, very interesting to hear everyone's opinion. There are too many tapes suggesting that UFO(unidentified by earthly origin). There's even a video of a Dragon they captured in China and I class that as also UFO because it was well flying. But I do believe there are beings out there that are technologically advanced then us by a thousand or maybe hundreds of years but I'm not talking about alien illustrated figures you watch on ET or any UFO shows, they are here on Earth called the Jin. But that is another story to be told

Kolby wrote:

minchy wrote:Real as in of alien origin or real as in unidentified by of earthly origin?

Unidentified by earthly origin.

Thanks for the response guys, very interesting to hear everyone's opinion. There are too many tapes suggesting that UFO(unidentified by earthly origin). There's even a video of a Dragon they captured in China and I class that as also UFO because it was well flying. But I do believe there are beings out there that are technologically advanced then us by a thousand or maybe hundreds of years but I'm not talking about alien illustrated figures you watch on ET or any UFO shows, they are here on Earth called the Jin. But that is another story to be told

All of them are fake and/or unsubstantiated. I live near an airport, I could take a video with my mobile phone of a plane taking off during the night and it would look like many of the popular UFO videos, random bright lights at a ridiculous distance, with video itself being of very poor quality.

They are similar to the "Evidence for Mermaids found" crap bandied about on social networks recently.

Alienturnedhuman wrote:After posting this the first time I got a "FORUM UNDER MAINTENANCE" message and when I clicked back to go to my message I was greeted with the same page, which caused a significant amount of rage because this took about 30 minutes to write. Foruntately Chrome had cached the data so I could just refresh the submission when the forum came back online, but suffice to say I'm not sure how I would have reacted had it not done that. Copying and pasting before hitting submit this time...

There is almost certainly alien life out there. However, it is almost impossible to ever confirm it.

The idea in the film Contact about aliens picking up the EM transmissions of the Berlin Olympics is pure fantasy. By the time you get beyond the edge of the solar system the signal strength is so low it will be drowned out by the background noise. In order to transmit a signal you would need a much more focused beam of energy, like a high precision laser, and you'd need to point it straight at the receiver. That relies on a) pointing it at a planet that has life on it, and b) them knowing to receive it when it arrives.

Chances are that we currently do not have the technology to produce a beam narrow enough - a laser dot fired from earth on the moon, for instance, is several hundred square kilometres. The most powerful laser developed is a megawatt, which means if could focus that on 100 square kilometres on the moon that is 10W per square kilometre. But the moon is very close. The nearest star is 100 million times further away. Which means following the inverse square law that that 10W per square kilometre is 0.000000000000001W per square kilometre.

Putting it another way. You know how powerful the sun is? Well in another star system that looks like one of those other stars.

The chances of communicating with someone at random is so unlikely. We can try to deduce which star systems may contain life, but given that it has taken hundreds of millions of years to produce a species capable of producing extra terrestrial technology on Earth the same applies to other worlds, so there is no guarantee that any of them will have an intelligent species at the time our signal gets there.

And of course, that's the other thing. If there are aliens knocking around on Proximus Centuri we only have to wait 9 years for a reply. If there are aliens on Betelgeuse it will take 1,300 years it get a response. And there is a chance they are already dead as it's probably already gone supernova.

So we can't talk to alien life. What about visiting them - or them visiting us?

Going to moon was tricky. Going to Mars is a lot more difficult that than that. Leaving the solar system? Now, I know that Voyager 1 it at the limit of the solar system but there are few things to consider about the Voyager probes.

1. While they are pretty big (compared to what you expect) they are still tiny compared to what would be needed to transport people. The International Space Station is about 600 times the mass as Voyager 1 and that's the minimum we'd need for interstellar travel. Except the ISS is flimsy delicate thing that if sent into space would be destroyed from the tiniest micrometeroid you could find. The Aliens we see videos of are whizzing about in high tech flying saucers that are far more substantial and would require a huge mothership.

2. Voyager 1 didn't reach it's destination just by its rocket power. It used gravity assists. Basically, it was pointed at Jupiter and was set to trail just behind, as it got closer to Jupiter it was pulled towards Jupiter, thus accelerating its speed away from the Sun. The path was carefully caclulated so it would then go to Saturn and do the same. Voyager 2 then used Uranus and Neptune as well while Voyager 1 tried to take a look at Titan thus meaning it headed off away from the solar system and why it's reached the edge of the Solar System sooner.

The issue is that to go further there aren't any more planets after Neptune. You can't only accelerate using your own onboard propellent. It will take Voyager 1 40,000 years to get 4 light years away from Earth. Meaning that's the soonest - assuming it was heading in the right direction - it could get to another star. Suddenly 1,300 year email exchanges seem kind of speedy,

Now, of course, it is entirely possible that in the future we will develop new technology that allows it, including warp drive, and we can whizz about the solar system like we can pop into Tesco today. What does that mean?

Well, let's stick with the current laws of physics and assume faster than light is impossible. Let's say we can only ever get to 1/10th of the speed of light. Let's also assume that we can create colony ships, and every 1,000 years that colony ship can build another colony ship to set off to another star. Even with those slow numbers it creates a problem. The entire galaxy would be colonised by that species in about 100 million years. Now, I know that seems like a long time to us, but in galactic history terms it is the blink of an eye. It's call the Fermi paradox and basically what it means is that IF we can colonise the galaxy then we should already be colonised by aliens.

There are many theories as to why this is not the case.

The most likely is that interstellar travel is impossible with the resources available in a solar system. While it is almost certainly technically possible to design a ship that can travel the universe, is there enough stuff in a single solar system to be able to build and launch it? We don't know the answer to that question. And while the "but what about future tech" is a question, it's not an answer. Yes, technology will get better. Yes, unknown technology we be invented. Yes, our understanding of the rules of the universe will change. But just because that is the case doesn't mean it will change in a way that makes interstellar travel possible.

Other answers for the Fermi paradox include:

We're the only species in the galaxy
We're the first species to become this advanced
There is a galactic community but they have a prime directive rule that forbids interaction with undeveloped worlds.
There is routinely a galactic event that wipes out all life in the galaxy (The Mass Effect Reaper theory)
Aliens are already here and are hiding themselves from us.
Alien life has been encountered but it is so different we just think it is rocks or cheese.
Life that evolves to the point of interstellar travel becomes so advanced it evolves to a different kind of being (the Bablyon 5 theory)
The ultimate end goal for species capable of interstellar travel is not colonisation, but the singularity - where we upload our consciousness into machines.
Once life leaves a planet, it is more efficient to exist in spaceships and spacestations rather than inhabiting planets.

And many many more.

Agree with most of your post, but have you considered-
Once a technology advance reaches a point, there is no longer any need to 'live on a planet' ? (did we do this before?)

The 'ship' would not need to be a method of getting from one place to another, just where they live, but can move?

The likelihood of one wandering into our system is low, but they would need to gather stores, be it from a star or planet, and I would not think the level of being living on one of these would be bothered by the suns gravity, even if it was not using it for a slingshot.

Any race who progressed this far would obviously be interested in us, even if just to donkeys a threat to themselves.
Maybe they are checking in every few hundred years on their way somewhere else( )

moby wrote: if just to donkeys a threat to themselves

Of all the typos you could have made you have the get the one that fits in so neatly with the ever-popular anal probing!

painless wrote:

moby wrote: if just to donkeys a threat to themselves

Of all the typos you could have made you have the get the one that fits in so neatly with the ever-popular anal probing!

Damn, another bum keystroke

Kolby wrote:But I do believe there are beings out there that are technologically advanced then us by a thousand or maybe hundreds of years but I'm not talking about alien illustrated figures you watch on ET or any UFO shows, they are here on Earth called the Jin. But that is another story to be told

The same Jinn in Islam, the pan-dimensional beings made of fire?

If UFO means aliens, then... fake, because the distance between Earth and other planets with possible life is way too big. Can't really travel from one planet to another.

bbobeckyj wrote:

painless wrote:The arguments in favour of the existence of extra-terrestrial species have been well rehearsed: An infinite number of stars, some with life-friendly planets equals a certainty of life existing elsewhere. OK let's say we buy that. So Joe alien builds a space ship, arrives here but always chooses a remote location, maybe indulges in a little abduction (with or without probing) and then promptly *inaudible* off home. This aspect is a little more difficult to accept. Most of the other "incidents" are variations on the same theme.
I am prepared to keep an open mind but I'm going to want to see some pretty compelling evidence!

Just like human explorers such as Darwin did?
I know that it's a polemic, but studying new things often means doing so without interfering with its natural state and habitat, or at least trying not to.

I would imagine that an alien species capable of inter-stelar flight would't find it to challenging to study us and remain totally undetected.

RacingFan1 wrote:If UFO means aliens, then... fake, because the distance between Earth and other planets with possible life is way too big for us. We Can't really travel from one planet to another.

Fixed that for ya! Who knows where the limits of possibilities are!

moby wrote:

Biffa wrote:On a related note, did anyone see the thing earlier in the year about the Canadian Minister of Defence (and I think some US senators/congressmen) publically calling for disclosure on a possible ET signal picked up by radio telescope?

Don’t know if they are conspiracy theorists but I am surprised there statements alone were not more newsworthy given their seniority.

There was one, generally refer to as 'WOW', after what the technician wrote on the printout (before photocopying it, so it was on everyones fax)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow!_signal

I found the excerpt that I was thinking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEQdvYFMBAU

Definitely worth a watch, it screams conspiracy theory to me, but it is so outrageously bizarre that someone of this seniority is making these statements.

We are the only life form that we 100% know of and inhabited planet that we 100% know of. That's kind of special and lonely and yet humans abuse each other and the earth.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23731759

Area 51 exists according to the CIA

vikz22 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23731759

Area 51 exists according to the CIA

Here we get Pastis 51 and it allows the addicts to see aliens too...

Biffa wrote:

moby wrote:

Biffa wrote:On a related note, did anyone see the thing earlier in the year about the Canadian Minister of Defence (and I think some US senators/congressmen) publically calling for disclosure on a possible ET signal picked up by radio telescope?

Don’t know if they are conspiracy theorists but I am surprised there statements alone were not more newsworthy given their seniority.

There was one, generally refer to as 'WOW', after what the technician wrote on the printout (before photocopying it, so it was on everyones fax)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow!_signal

I found the excerpt that I was thinking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEQdvYFMBAU

Definitely worth a watch, it screams conspiracy theory to me, but it is so outrageously bizarre that someone of this seniority is making these statements.

Yeh, it makes him sound like a nut, but consider how much money and resources other governments have to waste looking into this

Also, (ref the link on the side) Have you seen thermal image security TV?
It really does make people look like lizards. To see someone quaff a cold drink is dead scary.

Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not.

Both are equally terrifying.

I am willing and ready to change my opinion when credible evidence can be produced. History channel documentaries, weird websites written by amateurs who are cashing on the alien craze, ancient aliens theorists and the rest of the pseudoscientific community of UFO hunters community have failed to produce evidence to back up any of their wild claims.

If UFOs are real where are they?

FrusEldar wrote:I am willing and ready to change my opinion when credible evidence can be produced. History channel documentaries, weird websites written by amateurs who are cashing on the alien craze, ancient aliens theorists and the rest of the pseudoscientific community of UFO hunters community have failed to produce evidence to back up any of their wild claims.

If UFOs are real where are they?

That is called Femi's paradox, and was a reply to the Drake equation.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox


http://io9.com/11-of-the-weirdest-solut ... -456850746

I love number 4 in the above