planetf1.com

pokerman wrote:

Option or Prime wrote:The fundamental duty of any police officer is to save life.

I really can not see any justification in the officers actions related to resistance to arrest, neither would a court. If police can't arrest a man without killing them they are incompetent and shouldn't be in the profession. The problem for me is that I doubt if there will be a conviction and I further doubt there will be any time spent in prison for it.

However, imagine 4 black officers holding down a white man! This is why there is such a furore about this, I don't expect it to die down quickly.

You can guarantee that if these officers charges are dropped or there is an acquittal more violent protests will result. That is wrong but until the police are reigned in and start showing respect for ALL life it will continue. I just don't see Donald Trump making police forces in the US accountable.

On the UK news I've just seen multiple incidents of US police pushing over individuals, dragging passive protestors way and deliberately driving at groups of people.
If I were a US citizen I would be ashamed.

It wasn't 4 white officers that held down George Floyd, apparently they were white, black, hispanic and asian, obviously the white officer was the chief instigator, Floyd's breathing was also impaired by the officer leaning on his back, but again loose reporting to give a different overview and I have to wonder why?

If you're going to make outrageous statements like this at least do some research first. A quick google search will show you that two of the officers are clearly caucasion, one seems to have relations tied to south-east Asia, and the other I cannot identify (but clearly not black). I'll remind you this is a Black Lives Matter protest, not a Hispanic or Asian Lives Matter protest.

It was three non-black officers that held them down, with one officer standing there clearly not caring for the fact that George Floyd had lost consciousness.

This is clearly a systemic issue, reinforced by the fact that all 57 Buffalo officers resigned from their duties in support of the officer who pushed a 75 year old man and left him in critical condition.

I would refrain from commenting further on this issue if I were you, before you accidentally say something offensive.

Schumacher forever#1 wrote:before you accidentally say something offensive.

Seems a bit late for that?

Exediron wrote:

Schumacher forever#1 wrote:before you accidentally say something offensive.

Seems a bit late for that?

lmao. that’s funny! option or prime, you admit what you are posting is your perception from the uk. you have posted several false statements about what is actually occurring here. you want us to be ashamed and post about it pfffftt. we are living it non stop, and an f1 board is a bit of escape time. i thought it was obvious that everywhere in the world, that there are people, some are good, some not so good.

This is now 90% politics and 10% race (if even that), when you start executing African Amercian police officers that served the community for over 40 years (just one of many African American Law Enforcement Officers that have been executed), or spray painting F Israel on the side of a Synagoge before setting it on fire or saying you are going to burn the diamond disctrict in NYC (mostly Jewish owned), or stabbing a NYPD officer (which is a Minority majority orginazation, and has been for quite a while) while saying Islmaic terorist slogans, or beat the hell out of member of the LGBT community while saying homophobic slurs, or attacking a Childrens hospital, or preventing Fire Department from getting to a house on fire with the family still in it, or chanting eat the rich, or F capitalism while on your IPhone (and I could go on and on about this kind of stuff) it is no longer about race. And everyone from the Police to Trump immediately condemned George Floyd's murder and said they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. This is about violently overthrowing the US government (and all other Free Western Societies) and installing a Socialist/ Communist system, make no mistake this is a communist revolution.

If we want to have a serious discussion on Race let's have one, why are all the worst cities in the country for crime, poverty, drugs, and schools all completely owned and run by the Democratic Party, and have been for 50-100 years. Why have we financially incentivised the dictruction of the African American Family by paying them to have children outside of wedlock, guarunteing the child will not have a Father (DNC again). Why are the School boards preventing families from deciding for themselves what schools there children may attend. Why do we endlessly tell them that Government can solve all there problems, but never do. Why is it that inner city African Americans (unless you have one in million athletic skills) can only look to crime to get there slice of the American Dream. Why have we aborted millions of African American babies via abortion, and allowed companies like Planned Parenthood to then chop up the babies parts and sell them for profit (that news just came out in recently and was completely buried by the news). All of these problems are all created and perpetuated by the DNC, but the inner city African Americans will still blindly vote for DNC politicians 99% of the time, WHY?

pc27b wrote:

Exediron wrote:

Schumacher forever#1 wrote:before you accidentally say something offensive.

Seems a bit late for that?

lmao. that’s funny! option or prime, you admit what you are posting is your perception from the uk. you have posted several false statements about what is actually occurring here. you want us to be ashamed and post about it pfffftt. we are living it non stop, and an f1 board is a bit of escape time. i thought it was obvious that everywhere in the world, that there are people, some are good, some not so good.

Then correct me! This is what it looks like from here, it looks as though only the black population of the US are protesting. I've seen two videos now of old people being pushed over, one had a cane, the other was left bleeding from the head.

Oh and a president who comes up with a snappy shooting, looting sound bite!

Protestors in central London



EDIT
Its just been pointed out to me that not everybody will get the significance of the above picture. I sincerely hope that's not the case!

ShaneM wrote:This is now 90% politics and 10% race (if even that), when you start executing African Amercian police officers that served the community for over 40 years (just one of many African American Law Enforcement Officers that have been executed), or spray painting F Israel on the side of a Synagoge before setting it on fire or saying you are going to burn the diamond disctrict in NYC (mostly Jewish owned), or stabbing a NYPD officer (which is a Minority majority orginazation, and has been for quite a while) while saying Islmaic terorist slogans, or beat the hell out of member of the LGBT community while saying homophobic slurs, or attacking a Childrens hospital, or preventing Fire Department from getting to a house on fire with the family still in it, or chanting eat the rich, or F capitalism while on your IPhone (and I could go on and on about this kind of stuff) it is no longer about race. And everyone from the Police to Trump immediately condemned George Floyd's murder and said they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. This is about violently overthrowing the US government (and all other Free Western Societies) and installing a Socialist/ Communist system, make no mistake this is a communist revolution.

If we want to have a serious discussion on Race let's have one, why are all the worst cities in the country for crime, poverty, drugs, and schools all completely owned and run by the Democratic Party, and have been for 50-100 years. Why have we financially incentivised the dictruction of the African American Family by paying them to have children outside of wedlock, guarunteing the child will not have a Father (DNC again). Why are the School boards preventing families from deciding for themselves what schools there children may attend. Why do we endlessly tell them that Government can solve all there problems, but never do. Why is it that inner city African Americans (unless you have one in million athletic skills) can only look to crime to get there slice of the American Dream. Why have we aborted millions of African American babies via abortion, and allowed companies like Planned Parenthood to then chop up the babies parts and sell them for profit (that news just came out in recently and was completely buried by the news). All of these problems are all created and perpetuated by the DNC, but the inner city African Americans will still blindly vote for DNC politicians 99% of the time, WHY?

Your first paragraph - are you saying all that has happened as part of the Black Lives Matter protest over the past week or so? If so, you got any evidence to back it up?

Option or Prime wrote:Then correct me! This is what it looks like from here, it looks as though only the black population of the US are protesting. I've seen two videos now of old people being pushed over, one had a cane, the other was left bleeding from the head.

Oh and a president who comes up with a snappy shooting, looting sound bite!

Plenty of non-black citizens are protesting, although I'm sure a plurality of the protesters are (reasonably enough) black.


Washington, DC


Pittsburgh, PA

No excuses for the 'President', though.

Exediron wrote:

Option or Prime wrote:Then correct me! This is what it looks like from here, it looks as though only the black population of the US are protesting. I've seen two videos now of old people being pushed over, one had a cane, the other was left bleeding from the head.

Oh and a president who comes up with a snappy shooting, looting sound bite!

Plenty of non-black citizens are protesting, although I'm sure a plurality of the protesters are (reasonably enough) black.


Washington, DC


Pittsburgh, PA

No excuses for the 'President', though.

Thank you, I was beginning to worry.

Siao7 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_hfsygGxRc&app=desktop

Impressive Siao, thanks.

Didn't expect this, Minnesota to dismantle its police force. How do you do this I wonder, who do you retain if any?

Option or Prime wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Option or Prime wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Option or Prime wrote:The fundamental duty of any police officer is to save life.

I really can not see any justification in the officers actions related to resistance to arrest, neither would a court. If police can't arrest a man without killing them they are incompetent and shouldn't be in the profession. The problem for me is that I doubt if there will be a conviction and I further doubt there will be any time spent in prison for it.

However, imagine 4 black officers holding down a white man! This is why there is such a furore about this, I don't expect it to die down quickly.

You can guarantee that if these officers charges are dropped or there is an acquittal more violent protests will result. That is wrong but until the police are reigned in and start showing respect for ALL life it will continue. I just don't see Donald Trump making police forces in the US accountable.

On the UK news I've just seen multiple incidents of US police pushing over individuals, dragging passive protestors way and deliberately driving at groups of people.
If I were a US citizen I would be ashamed.

It wasn't 4 white officers that held down George Floyd, apparently they were white, black, hispanic and asian, obviously the white officer was the chief instigator, Floyd's breathing was also impaired by the officer leaning on his back, but again loose reporting to give a different overview and I have to wonder why?

Slightly confused I didn't actually mention the colour of the officers, did you assume I did?

The point I was making in this and the previous post is that the US police seem to be out of control. They are behaving as if they a not responsible to the people who they are supposed to 'protect and serve'.

The thing that angers me the most though is the lack of convictions against the US police and the re-instatement of individuals who clearly do not have the temperament to do the job.

Then you wasn't comparing like for like when you said 4 black police officers.

In respect to the police officers they are obviously poorly trained, they didn't even know how to administer CPR, but then because of the pandemic maybe they chose not to?

Thats the thing though isn't it, you automatically thought white officers.

The mind plays funny subconscious tricks!

Because of the way it was reported.

It's a shame nothing is made of the killing of the retired US black police officer after he tried to stop looters at his neighbours business, attacks on UK police officers with several stabbings, defacing of Winston Churchill's statue in London, in particular what have the latter two got to do with BLM?

Option or Prime wrote:Didn't expect this, Minnesota to dismantle its police force. How do you do this I wonder, who do you retain if any?

I am not sure how this is going to work, if people can't call the police if a burglar gets into your home, then they'll start getting armed. We'll go backwards in that sense.

pokerman wrote:It's a shame nothing is made of the killing of the retired US black police officer after he tried to stop looters at his neighbours business, attacks on UK police officers with several stabbings, defacing of Winston Churchill's statue in London, in particular what have the latter two got to do with BLM?

Several stabbings of UK police officers? You got a link to a news article for that because it’s the first I’ve heard.

Nothing made of the defacing of the Churchill statue? There’s a report on the BBC news homepage that talks about it. It will have been defaced because he was a racist.

pokerman wrote:It's a shame nothing is made of the killing of the retired US black police officer after he tried to stop looters at his neighbours business, attacks on UK police officers with several stabbings, defacing of Winston Churchill's statue in London, in particular what have the latter two got to do with BLM?

If you don't know will be willing to erect a statue for Jimmy Saville in your front yard.

If you want to debate Winston Churchill then take it to off topic in its own thread please. I'd also like to ask all of you to at least attempt to provide sources/proof about the claims you are making in this topic, because some of it is beginning to veer away from established facts; all it takes is a quick link to a decent source and it'll save a lot of grief for all concerned.

Siao7 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Option or Prime wrote:

Herb wrote:

Option or Prime wrote:I have to say, I'm a bit confused with a number of US members on this forum that nobody has posted any sort of comment or started a thread on the death, now officially murder of George Floyd and the subsequent protests in Minneapolis and other parts of the US.

As a Brit I am personally appalled at the fact it happened, the delay in charging the police officer and Donald Trumps response. I note no condemnation of attacks on the press. Even football (soccer) in the UK recognises the injustice.

Is it because you are so used to seeing racist acts by your police.

I also noticed that the only reason that F1 made a statement was because of Lewis Hamiltons criticism.Lewis Hamiltons criticism.

Shame the other so called 'Greats' of F1 sport are too wound up in their own little world to show a little leadership!

Whilst I agree with you, it's a bit off topic for this thread. Maybe worth it's own?











Back on topic, Mexico is aiming for the 1st of November. That would tick off a 2nd continent.

Prepared to concede that but my reasoning is that is a very good reason for not going the the US to race F1. Can you have a Grand Prix with the National Guard on the streets?

Given Lewis Hamiltons statements on the matter would he go? If he did would he be safe? F1 have now backed his comments, where does that put the sport.

I'm happy for the mods to move these posts but I do think these comments are very relevant to the thread.

F1 goes to much worse places like China etc, just saying.

How is it worse?

If you have to ask?!?

This is exactly the problem. Vilifying because they tell you to without really knowing anything and opining from a country far away with the same issues and not criticize where it is due because they don't tell you the whole story.

Option or Prime wrote:

pc27b wrote:

Option or Prime wrote:

pokerman wrote:
As already being said they are rioting in the cities so how does that affect F1 and in particular why would Hamilton be at risk?

A black man driving a car fast in the USA, I'd think the risk was obvious!

Seriously though, and I take the point made on China, can F1 go to the States or China for that matter this year, Covid-19 needs to be at least predictable.

"" How can the owners showcase F1 in the US with civil unrest a strong possibility. This year I can see the WDC needing to account for disruption for whatever reason.

""


come on. civil unrest in October is far from a "strong possibility" would lewis hamilton even be safe in the usa ? lol lewis hamilton shook hands with putin

if he, or any other f1 drivers feel unsafe going to the states, they can stay with me, it'll be fine, and i will show him some regular, normal spots here. not a fancy 5 star hotel, just normalcy
you seem to have a problem with the states option or prime, carry on.

as far as the released schedule....not that excited about back to back races at the same track. call em gimmicks, so what, i think something different needs done, with same track, back to back races

No not really a problem, I do have a problem with white US police killing black people though and getting reinstated 6 month later after resigning, or not even being charged!
Personally I think we all should.

My biggest concern would be Covid-19, if and its a big if, because I think the virus is fading away, but if it were to have a second wave the autumn/fall would be when it would kick back in. There is a lot of time for many things to change before then!

You know there are more white unarmed man shot by cops then black people, right? You make it sounds like the police goes out hunting for afroamerican people and kills them on a daily basis. in 2017 15 unarmed black people died because of police 'handling', half of them would be safe if they only had stopped and done what the cops told them to do.

What about the cops getting called into ambushes and then being shot - too many in my book just like on the other side, but where is the outrage?

Alienturnedhuman wrote:Regarding the protests and the escalation of looting and violence, there are several things that need to be addressed.

The first is that these protests have been attended by tens of thousands - if not more - and the vast vast majority of those have been conducted peacefully, and what is seen on TV are the most extreme cases because they make the best TV, and if you are seeing the same brief few seconds of the same handful of incidences that is not representative of the conduct of the vast majority of people.

These are not a collective mind, these are not being run by a central authority that dictates to people how to behave. So when a small group of people start rioting and looting, it is in no way reasonable to hold the protest movement null and void- or the ideology accountable - in the same way as an organisation should be held accountable for the actions of its employees (such as the police force), as organisations select, train and vet their employees.

All of this is true even if those conducting the violence are all genuine protestors. Unfortunately it seems that this is far from the case, as there has been many documented incidences of people not affiliated with the movement (one who even looks like an undercover law enforcement officer) smashing windows in the background of peaceful protests. There has been documented videos clearly showing white people shoving black protestors into police officers to trigger the officer to beat them.

This is because it’s known that arson and rioting is a good way to turn the middle ground from softly supporting the protestors to being firmly against them.

“I would support them if they protested peacefully”

Well - as many have pointed out by now - they tried protesting peacefully, the whole taking a knee thing, and that got banned.

An American friend of mine shared a post that essentially said that racism has become part of America’s identity because people are condemning protests against racism as being anti American. That was highlighted with the banning of the taking a knee and it’s resulted in where we are today.

As for how this ties in with Hamilton, both being British and an F1 driver, well neither of those disqualify him from speaking out.

First,while it is true that racism is not as big an issue in the U.K. as in the USA, it’s still an issue and a bigger one than people are prepared to admit. Post Brexit racism has spiked, but even when the U.K. was at its most accepting there were still problems.

If the defence is “We don’t have as much racism as in America” or “We are one of the least racist countries in Europe” then what you are actually saying is the level of racism that exists is fine. If you are truly against racism then you should support the efforts to eradicate it. And the best ways most people can help fight racism don’t even cost anything. They are a) don’t be a racist and b) call out people who are racist

As an F1 driver, Hamilton is equally entitled to speak out. F1 is a global sport with a global platform and people look up to these drivers.

"But why isn’t he speaking out against China or Bahrain?! Hypocrite!"

No. For one thing it is not a racism he has personally faced in his life, it’s also an issue he probably won’t be as informed about. But more significantly,China and Bahrain are not countries that have free speech. That’s also not a good thing and it’s an issue that needs to be addressed too, but speaking out against those atrocities will achieve nothing.

The USA meanwhile is a Western ally that purports to uphold the basic values that other Western cultures hold in high regard. These include free speech, civil rights and not being oppressed by your government.

On these issues America is fundamentally failing its black citizens, and with Liberty being an American company it only underlined the issue why It is appropriate for people in F1 to speak out about it.

There is so much wrong and hypocrisy in this post its not even funny. Don't blame the protesters for the looting but we can vilify all cops for the actions of a few?

cuco wrote:

Option or Prime wrote:

pc27b wrote:

Option or Prime wrote:

pokerman wrote:
As already being said they are rioting in the cities so how does that affect F1 and in particular why would Hamilton be at risk?

A black man driving a car fast in the USA, I'd think the risk was obvious!

Seriously though, and I take the point made on China, can F1 go to the States or China for that matter this year, Covid-19 needs to be at least predictable.

"" How can the owners showcase F1 in the US with civil unrest a strong possibility. This year I can see the WDC needing to account for disruption for whatever reason.

""


come on. civil unrest in October is far from a "strong possibility" would lewis hamilton even be safe in the usa ? lol lewis hamilton shook hands with putin

if he, or any other f1 drivers feel unsafe going to the states, they can stay with me, it'll be fine, and i will show him some regular, normal spots here. not a fancy 5 star hotel, just normalcy
you seem to have a problem with the states option or prime, carry on.

as far as the released schedule....not that excited about back to back races at the same track. call em gimmicks, so what, i think something different needs done, with same track, back to back races

No not really a problem, I do have a problem with white US police killing black people though and getting reinstated 6 month later after resigning, or not even being charged!
Personally I think we all should.

My biggest concern would be Covid-19, if and its a big if, because I think the virus is fading away, but if it were to have a second wave the autumn/fall would be when it would kick back in. There is a lot of time for many things to change before then!

You know there are more white unarmed man shot by cops then black people, right? You make it sounds like the police goes out hunting for afroamerican people and kills them on a daily basis. in 2017 15 unarmed black people died because of police 'handling', half of them would be safe if they only had stopped and done what the cops told them to do.

What about the cops getting called into ambushes and then being shot - too many in my book just like on the other side, but where is the outrage?

Bold bit 1: that's because there are nearly six times as many white people than black people in the US according to the 2019 estimates.

Bold bit 2: not listening to the police doesn't mean they shouldn't be safe. Also, George Floyd listened to the police and was murdered.

Alienturnedhuman wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Siao7 wrote:Thanks Mod.

Now I think there are two different things. Supporting the protest is one side, everyone understands what happened and why people are protesting. Also good news, the officers are facing trials on murder charges. But when things turn violent, then that is not a peaceful protest anymore. They have something like 6+ dead people in the protests so far, with people and police officers being shot alike... There are also the opportunistic looting that happens in these cases, but this is a different matter.

I'll go on a limb that this is the part that Poker won't support, rightly so if you see some of the images on this article: https://www.startribune.com/protests-bu ... 869672/#21.

So George Floyd actually did resist arrest, he's 6ft 6 a big stong guy and 4 officers were unable to get him inside the police car, this is how law abiding people react to being arrested?

We know he was a serial criminal before looking to turn his life around, his last and most heinous crime was armed robbery were he held a gun to a pregnant woman while her house was being burglared, she was pistol whipped twice to stop her screaming.
Had he just commited another crime, if so it was just a petty crime, he certainly didn't deserve to be killed albeit was an accident, but I think we have to review the unnecesary excessive force on someone so big and strong upon initial stories that he was not resisting arrest and then you wonder if a certain narrative was more important to be put forward.

Without doubt the whole thing is triggered by racial prejudice against black people in particular by the police and such things are always a ticking time bomb but George Floyd is hardly a Martin Luther King and white people get killed by the police as well.

One thing they need to review is leaning on people's necks in order to subdue people resisting arrest.

Thanks for the link Saio.

This was indeed a terrible thing he did. It also happened in 2007 so has absolutely no bearing on the incident with a forged banknote (something that can happen to anyone) that he ended up being killed over.

It doesn't but it does show what type of person he is vs what type of saint they are making him to be right now.

Siao7 wrote:

Rockie wrote:

Siao7 wrote:

Rockie wrote:
This is tone deaf and will be the last of this back and forth I will go with you, as you are intentionally being obtuse about the situation.

No one has justified it.

Also you ask why during a pandemic? now think deeply that during this pandemic not only are BAME people the ones dying the most, they are also suffering institutional racism.

Lock-down fines have somehow being disproportionately issued to ethnic minorities, so fighting two different pandemics at the same time, whilst your privilege affords you the right to sit on your high horse and you can't empathise only denigrate the movement based on the actions of some miscreants.

A black man was put in a vegetative state by heddlu police in Cardiff whilst being arrested he would have survived the brain damage but was left in the van for 30 mins without receiving medical attention.

Do a research on 'Stop and Search' in London and see the devastating effects, just because they are not being killed which is due to British police not carrying weapons.

This is interesting and I haven't heard that before. Is this true? More lock-down fines and more deaths dues to Covid for the BAME? Do you have a link for this?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... s-research

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... ame-people

Thank you, I did not know that. Very interesting, I am not sure how race affects the mortality with COVID, but the numbers seem to support this.

One is a DNA issue and has nothing to do with racism unless you are trying to do what CNN has been trying and call the whole COVID a racist issue which is ridiculous but am not surprised the leftist are going down that route.

The second is that maybe the BAME didn't follow the rules as other people including latinos, indian, asian etc. They aren't arrested in such a fashion, why?

cuco wrote:
One is a DNA issue and has nothing to do with racism unless you are trying to do what CNN has been trying and call the whole COVID a racist issue which is ridiculous but am not surprised the leftist are going down that route.

There is absolutely no evidence of this, its pure speculation on your part, provide a link or retract it. The UK government can't answer it so if you have the answer please show it.

cuco wrote:
The second is that maybe the BAME didn't follow the rules as other people including latinos, indian, asian etc. They aren't arrested in such a fashion, why?

a) Are you saying that BAME individuals behave totally different to "latinos, indian, asian"?
b) You do realise that BAME stands for Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic groups, so how are they different from themselves?

Option or Prime wrote:

cuco wrote:
The second is that maybe the BAME didn't follow the rules as other people including latinos, indian, asian etc. They aren't arrested in such a fashion, why?

a) Are you saying that BAME individuals behave totally different to "latinos, indian, asian"?
b) You do realise that BAME stands for Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic groups, so how are they different from themselves?

In addition: have you got any evidence for what you’re claiming?

Option or Prime wrote:

cuco wrote:
One is a DNA issue and has nothing to do with racism unless you are trying to do what CNN has been trying and call the whole COVID a racist issue which is ridiculous but am not surprised the leftist are going down that route.

There is absolutely no evidence of this, its pure speculation on your part, provide a link or retract it. The UK government can't answer it so if you have the answer please show it.

cuco wrote:
The second is that maybe the BAME didn't follow the rules as other people including latinos, indian, asian etc. They aren't arrested in such a fashion, why?

a) Are you saying that BAME individuals behave totally different to "latinos, indian, asian"?
b) You do realise that BAME stands for Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic groups, so how are they different from themselves?

1. I am not going to retract anything.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/ ... isparities
QUOTE
Chronic health conditions. Golden points out that people of color have a higher burden of chronic health conditions associated with a poor outcome from COVID-19, including diabetes, heart disease and lung disease. In a study cited by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), about 90% of those hospitalized with severe COVID-19 had at least one of these underlying medical conditions.
END QUOTE

Nothing to do with racism unless you are from the left.

2. I didn't really understand BAME, so my bad. Doesn't really change my opinion and answer. If you follow policy orders (for 99.9%) of the time nothing will happen to you. Fight it in court not on the street.

cuco wrote:

Option or Prime wrote:

cuco wrote:
One is a DNA issue and has nothing to do with racism unless you are trying to do what CNN has been trying and call the whole COVID a racist issue which is ridiculous but am not surprised the leftist are going down that route.

There is absolutely no evidence of this, its pure speculation on your part, provide a link or retract it. The UK government can't answer it so if you have the answer please show it.

cuco wrote:
The second is that maybe the BAME didn't follow the rules as other people including latinos, indian, asian etc. They aren't arrested in such a fashion, why?

a) Are you saying that BAME individuals behave totally different to "latinos, indian, asian"?
b) You do realise that BAME stands for Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic groups, so how are they different from themselves?

1. I am not going to retract anything.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/ ... isparities
QUOTE
Chronic health conditions. Golden points out that people of color have a higher burden of chronic health conditions associated with a poor outcome from COVID-19, including diabetes, heart disease and lung disease. In a study cited by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), about 90% of those hospitalized with severe COVID-19 had at least one of these underlying medical conditions.
END QUOTE

Nothing to do with racism unless you are from the left.

2. I didn't really understand BAME, so my bad. Doesn't really change my opinion and answer. If you follow policy orders (for 99.9%) of the time nothing will happen to you. Fight it in court not on the street.

Re 1) This says absolutely nothing about DNA, you said "One is a DNA issue". This is simply recording the fact that the disparity exists. It could just as easily be environmental issues.

Covid-19 transmission is highest in crowded, densely populated cities where social distancing is extremely difficult. We don't yet know why BAME individuals are affected more.

cuco wrote:

Option or Prime wrote:

cuco wrote:
One is a DNA issue and has nothing to do with racism unless you are trying to do what CNN has been trying and call the whole COVID a racist issue which is ridiculous but am not surprised the leftist are going down that route.

There is absolutely no evidence of this, its pure speculation on your part, provide a link or retract it. The UK government can't answer it so if you have the answer please show it.

cuco wrote:
The second is that maybe the BAME didn't follow the rules as other people including latinos, indian, asian etc. They aren't arrested in such a fashion, why?

a) Are you saying that BAME individuals behave totally different to "latinos, indian, asian"?
b) You do realise that BAME stands for Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic groups, so how are they different from themselves?

1. I am not going to retract anything.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/ ... isparities
QUOTE
Chronic health conditions. Golden points out that people of color have a higher burden of chronic health conditions associated with a poor outcome from COVID-19, including diabetes, heart disease and lung disease. In a study cited by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), about 90% of those hospitalized with severe COVID-19 had at least one of these underlying medical conditions.
END QUOTE

Nothing to do with racism unless you are from the left.

You need to re-read what you have posted. Nothing in that article says they are more likely to have a poor outcome BECAUSE of their DNA. You do understand that correlation is not the same as causation right?

cuco wrote: 2. I didn't really understand BAME, so my bad. Doesn't really change my opinion and answer. If you follow policy orders (for 99.9%) of the time nothing will happen to you. Fight it in court not on the street.

Not following orders, or even resisting arrest does not warrant lethal force. It is a totally disproportionate response. Deadly force should only ever be used when other lives are at risk (clearly not the case in the George Floyd case).

cuco wrote:Chronic health conditions. Golden points out that people of color have a higher burden of chronic health conditions associated with a poor outcome from COVID-19, including diabetes, heart disease and lung disease. In a study cited by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), about 90% of those hospitalized with severe COVID-19 had at least one of these underlying medical conditions.

Poor people are more likely to have chronic health conditions. Minorities are more likely to be poor.

And that's because of racism.

cuco wrote:

Alienturnedhuman wrote:Regarding the protests and the escalation of looting and violence, there are several things that need to be addressed.

The first is that these protests have been attended by tens of thousands - if not more - and the vast vast majority of those have been conducted peacefully, and what is seen on TV are the most extreme cases because they make the best TV, and if you are seeing the same brief few seconds of the same handful of incidences that is not representative of the conduct of the vast majority of people.

These are not a collective mind, these are not being run by a central authority that dictates to people how to behave. So when a small group of people start rioting and looting, it is in no way reasonable to hold the protest movement null and void- or the ideology accountable - in the same way as an organisation should be held accountable for the actions of its employees (such as the police force), as organisations select, train and vet their employees.

All of this is true even if those conducting the violence are all genuine protestors. Unfortunately it seems that this is far from the case, as there has been many documented incidences of people not affiliated with the movement (one who even looks like an undercover law enforcement officer) smashing windows in the background of peaceful protests. There has been documented videos clearly showing white people shoving black protestors into police officers to trigger the officer to beat them.

This is because it’s known that arson and rioting is a good way to turn the middle ground from softly supporting the protestors to being firmly against them.

“I would support them if they protested peacefully”

Well - as many have pointed out by now - they tried protesting peacefully, the whole taking a knee thing, and that got banned.

An American friend of mine shared a post that essentially said that racism has become part of America’s identity because people are condemning protests against racism as being anti American. That was highlighted with the banning of the taking a knee and it’s resulted in where we are today.

As for how this ties in with Hamilton, both being British and an F1 driver, well neither of those disqualify him from speaking out.

First,while it is true that racism is not as big an issue in the U.K. as in the USA, it’s still an issue and a bigger one than people are prepared to admit. Post Brexit racism has spiked, but even when the U.K. was at its most accepting there were still problems.

If the defence is “We don’t have as much racism as in America” or “We are one of the least racist countries in Europe” then what you are actually saying is the level of racism that exists is fine. If you are truly against racism then you should support the efforts to eradicate it. And the best ways most people can help fight racism don’t even cost anything. They are a) don’t be a racist and b) call out people who are racist

As an F1 driver, Hamilton is equally entitled to speak out. F1 is a global sport with a global platform and people look up to these drivers.

"But why isn’t he speaking out against China or Bahrain?! Hypocrite!"

No. For one thing it is not a racism he has personally faced in his life, it’s also an issue he probably won’t be as informed about. But more significantly,China and Bahrain are not countries that have free speech. That’s also not a good thing and it’s an issue that needs to be addressed too, but speaking out against those atrocities will achieve nothing.

The USA meanwhile is a Western ally that purports to uphold the basic values that other Western cultures hold in high regard. These include free speech, civil rights and not being oppressed by your government.

On these issues America is fundamentally failing its black citizens, and with Liberty being an American company it only underlined the issue why It is appropriate for people in F1 to speak out about it.

There is so much wrong and hypocrisy in this post its not even funny. Don't blame the protesters for the looting but we can vilify all cops for the actions of a few?

That is not what I said and until you are able to correctly articulate what I said I will not respond to you.

cuco wrote:

Siao7 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Option or Prime wrote:

Herb wrote:

Whilst I agree with you, it's a bit off topic for this thread. Maybe worth it's own?











Back on topic, Mexico is aiming for the 1st of November. That would tick off a 2nd continent.

Prepared to concede that but my reasoning is that is a very good reason for not going the the US to race F1. Can you have a Grand Prix with the National Guard on the streets?

Given Lewis Hamiltons statements on the matter would he go? If he did would he be safe? F1 have now backed his comments, where does that put the sport.

I'm happy for the mods to move these posts but I do think these comments are very relevant to the thread.

F1 goes to much worse places like China etc, just saying.

How is it worse?

If you have to ask?!?

This is exactly the problem. Vilifying because they tell you to without really knowing anything and opining from a country far away with the same issues and not criticize where it is due because they don't tell you the whole story.

You really need to read the whole thread before replying mate. And the numerous threads before, talking about sports in general and taking part in politics.

I also do not agree that I have to criticize everything due in the world. I really don't.

Siao7 wrote:

Option or Prime wrote:Didn't expect this, Minnesota to dismantle its police force. How do you do this I wonder, who do you retain if any?

I am not sure how this is going to work, if people can't call the police if a burglar gets into your home, then they'll start getting armed. We'll go backwards in that sense.

Apparently it's not a problem because it will only affect people of privilege, also I believe that they want to bring in some sort of gun controls so protecting yourself with guns might not be an option?

cuco wrote:

Alienturnedhuman wrote:Regarding the protests and the escalation of looting and violence, there are several things that need to be addressed.

The first is that these protests have been attended by tens of thousands - if not more - and the vast vast majority of those have been conducted peacefully, and what is seen on TV are the most extreme cases because they make the best TV, and if you are seeing the same brief few seconds of the same handful of incidences that is not representative of the conduct of the vast majority of people.

These are not a collective mind, these are not being run by a central authority that dictates to people how to behave. So when a small group of people start rioting and looting, it is in no way reasonable to hold the protest movement null and void- or the ideology accountable - in the same way as an organisation should be held accountable for the actions of its employees (such as the police force), as organisations select, train and vet their employees.

All of this is true even if those conducting the violence are all genuine protestors. Unfortunately it seems that this is far from the case, as there has been many documented incidences of people not affiliated with the movement (one who even looks like an undercover law enforcement officer) smashing windows in the background of peaceful protests. There has been documented videos clearly showing white people shoving black protestors into police officers to trigger the officer to beat them.

This is because it’s known that arson and rioting is a good way to turn the middle ground from softly supporting the protestors to being firmly against them.

“I would support them if they protested peacefully”

Well - as many have pointed out by now - they tried protesting peacefully, the whole taking a knee thing, and that got banned.

An American friend of mine shared a post that essentially said that racism has become part of America’s identity because people are condemning protests against racism as being anti American. That was highlighted with the banning of the taking a knee and it’s resulted in where we are today.

As for how this ties in with Hamilton, both being British and an F1 driver, well neither of those disqualify him from speaking out.

First,while it is true that racism is not as big an issue in the U.K. as in the USA, it’s still an issue and a bigger one than people are prepared to admit. Post Brexit racism has spiked, but even when the U.K. was at its most accepting there were still problems.

If the defence is “We don’t have as much racism as in America” or “We are one of the least racist countries in Europe” then what you are actually saying is the level of racism that exists is fine. If you are truly against racism then you should support the efforts to eradicate it. And the best ways most people can help fight racism don’t even cost anything. They are a) don’t be a racist and b) call out people who are racist

As an F1 driver, Hamilton is equally entitled to speak out. F1 is a global sport with a global platform and people look up to these drivers.

"But why isn’t he speaking out against China or Bahrain?! Hypocrite!"

No. For one thing it is not a racism he has personally faced in his life, it’s also an issue he probably won’t be as informed about. But more significantly,China and Bahrain are not countries that have free speech. That’s also not a good thing and it’s an issue that needs to be addressed too, but speaking out against those atrocities will achieve nothing.

The USA meanwhile is a Western ally that purports to uphold the basic values that other Western cultures hold in high regard. These include free speech, civil rights and not being oppressed by your government.

On these issues America is fundamentally failing its black citizens, and with Liberty being an American company it only underlined the issue why It is appropriate for people in F1 to speak out about it.

There is so much wrong and hypocrisy in this post its not even funny. Don't blame the protesters for the looting but we can vilify all cops for the actions of a few?

Yeah I saw a video of 2 young black men breaking into a cash machine surrounded by 100s if not 1000s of protestors, they were besically being protected by the mob from the police.

Schumacher forever#1 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Option or Prime wrote:The fundamental duty of any police officer is to save life.

I really can not see any justification in the officers actions related to resistance to arrest, neither would a court. If police can't arrest a man without killing them they are incompetent and shouldn't be in the profession. The problem for me is that I doubt if there will be a conviction and I further doubt there will be any time spent in prison for it.

However, imagine 4 black officers holding down a white man! This is why there is such a furore about this, I don't expect it to die down quickly.

You can guarantee that if these officers charges are dropped or there is an acquittal more violent protests will result. That is wrong but until the police are reigned in and start showing respect for ALL life it will continue. I just don't see Donald Trump making police forces in the US accountable.

On the UK news I've just seen multiple incidents of US police pushing over individuals, dragging passive protestors way and deliberately driving at groups of people.
If I were a US citizen I would be ashamed.

It wasn't 4 white officers that held down George Floyd, apparently they were white, black, hispanic and asian, obviously the white officer was the chief instigator, Floyd's breathing was also impaired by the officer leaning on his back, but again loose reporting to give a different overview and I have to wonder why?

If you're going to make outrageous statements like this at least do some research first. A quick google search will show you that two of the officers are clearly caucasion, one seems to have relations tied to south-east Asia, and the other I cannot identify (but clearly not black). I'll remind you this is a Black Lives Matter protest, not a Hispanic or Asian Lives Matter protest.

It was three non-black officers that held them down, with one officer standing there clearly not caring for the fact that George Floyd had lost consciousness.

This is clearly a systemic issue, reinforced by the fact that all 57 Buffalo officers resigned from their duties in support of the officer who pushed a 75 year old man and left him in critical condition.

I would refrain from commenting further on this issue if I were you, before you accidentally say something offensive.

So you will concede that only 2 of the officers were white whilst on C4 news yesterday they ran with the story that all the officers were white, when I see inaccurate reporting then I see a narrative.

I saw an interview with black footballer Raheem Sterling who complained that only a third of professional footballers in the country are black, in England 3% of the population is black whilst 87% are white, look at the ridiculous contradiction that's more like racism against white people yet they ran with the story obviously thinking that people are stupid and would just lap it up as they look in every knuck and cranny for racism.

Let's run a few stories and see who is comfortable about all of this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIPgYeR5KLQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7aQ02YX7qo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t-hMoszGR4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eBqvlgeRpo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4fockTm8qw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0w9H7jJp7I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHD2LUaar8g

Defunding the police, I wonder how many on here would be happy at having to find their own means to protect themselves?

pokerman wrote:Let's run a few stories and see who is comfortable about all of this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIPgYeR5KLQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7aQ02YX7qo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t-hMoszGR4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eBqvlgeRpo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4fockTm8qw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0w9H7jJp7I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHD2LUaar8g

Defunding the police, I wonder how many on here would be happy at having to find their own means to protect themselves?

You've posted a load of right-wing propaganda - seems to be all opinion pieces with no actual reporting on facts. What am I meant to be uncomfortable with?

pokerman wrote:

Schumacher forever#1 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Option or Prime wrote:The fundamental duty of any police officer is to save life.

I really can not see any justification in the officers actions related to resistance to arrest, neither would a court. If police can't arrest a man without killing them they are incompetent and shouldn't be in the profession. The problem for me is that I doubt if there will be a conviction and I further doubt there will be any time spent in prison for it.

However, imagine 4 black officers holding down a white man! This is why there is such a furore about this, I don't expect it to die down quickly.

You can guarantee that if these officers charges are dropped or there is an acquittal more violent protests will result. That is wrong but until the police are reigned in and start showing respect for ALL life it will continue. I just don't see Donald Trump making police forces in the US accountable.

On the UK news I've just seen multiple incidents of US police pushing over individuals, dragging passive protestors way and deliberately driving at groups of people.
If I were a US citizen I would be ashamed.

It wasn't 4 white officers that held down George Floyd, apparently they were white, black, hispanic and asian, obviously the white officer was the chief instigator, Floyd's breathing was also impaired by the officer leaning on his back, but again loose reporting to give a different overview and I have to wonder why?

If you're going to make outrageous statements like this at least do some research first. A quick google search will show you that two of the officers are clearly caucasion, one seems to have relations tied to south-east Asia, and the other I cannot identify (but clearly not black). I'll remind you this is a Black Lives Matter protest, not a Hispanic or Asian Lives Matter protest.

It was three non-black officers that held them down, with one officer standing there clearly not caring for the fact that George Floyd had lost consciousness.

This is clearly a systemic issue, reinforced by the fact that all 57 Buffalo officers resigned from their duties in support of the officer who pushed a 75 year old man and left him in critical condition.

I would refrain from commenting further on this issue if I were you, before you accidentally say something offensive.

So you will concede that only 2 of the officers were white whilst on C4 news yesterday they ran with the story that all the officers were white, when I see inaccurate reporting then I see a narrative.

I saw an interview with black footballer Raheem Sterling who complained that only a third of professional footballers in the country are black, in England 3% of the population is black whilst 87% are white, look at the ridiculous contradiction that's more like racism against white people yet they ran with the story obviously thinking that people are stupid and would just lap it up as they look in every knuck and cranny for racism.

I literally know nothing about C4 so I can't comment on this, nor do I generally get news from news channels. I still don't know what you're inferring with the fact that all four officers weren't caucasian. Racism doesn't stop at white people, it can be instigated by any person of colour. It is just disproportionally aimed at African American people, to an excessive and fatal level.

I find it needless to cherry pick Sterling's comments on why 'only' a third of footballers are black, obviously he himself doesn't understand the demographics, and news channels will generally sensationalise what influential people will say. It raises another issue, which I would be on your side with - oftentimes certain sectors will promote diversity to an unhealthy amount so much so that a minority population in a field will be given more job opportunities than a typical person applying for that same field.

Schumacher forever#1 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Schumacher forever#1 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Option or Prime wrote:The fundamental duty of any police officer is to save life.

I really can not see any justification in the officers actions related to resistance to arrest, neither would a court. If police can't arrest a man without killing them they are incompetent and shouldn't be in the profession. The problem for me is that I doubt if there will be a conviction and I further doubt there will be any time spent in prison for it.

However, imagine 4 black officers holding down a white man! This is why there is such a furore about this, I don't expect it to die down quickly.

You can guarantee that if these officers charges are dropped or there is an acquittal more violent protests will result. That is wrong but until the police are reigned in and start showing respect for ALL life it will continue. I just don't see Donald Trump making police forces in the US accountable.

On the UK news I've just seen multiple incidents of US police pushing over individuals, dragging passive protestors way and deliberately driving at groups of people.
If I were a US citizen I would be ashamed.

It wasn't 4 white officers that held down George Floyd, apparently they were white, black, hispanic and asian, obviously the white officer was the chief instigator, Floyd's breathing was also impaired by the officer leaning on his back, but again loose reporting to give a different overview and I have to wonder why?

If you're going to make outrageous statements like this at least do some research first. A quick google search will show you that two of the officers are clearly caucasion, one seems to have relations tied to south-east Asia, and the other I cannot identify (but clearly not black). I'll remind you this is a Black Lives Matter protest, not a Hispanic or Asian Lives Matter protest.

It was three non-black officers that held them down, with one officer standing there clearly not caring for the fact that George Floyd had lost consciousness.

This is clearly a systemic issue, reinforced by the fact that all 57 Buffalo officers resigned from their duties in support of the officer who pushed a 75 year old man and left him in critical condition.

I would refrain from commenting further on this issue if I were you, before you accidentally say something offensive.

So you will concede that only 2 of the officers were white whilst on C4 news yesterday they ran with the story that all the officers were white, when I see inaccurate reporting then I see a narrative.

I saw an interview with black footballer Raheem Sterling who complained that only a third of professional footballers in the country are black, in England 3% of the population is black whilst 87% are white, look at the ridiculous contradiction that's more like racism against white people yet they ran with the story obviously thinking that people are stupid and would just lap it up as they look in every knuck and cranny for racism.

I literally know nothing about C4 so I can't comment on this, nor do I generally get news from news channels. I still don't know what you're inferring with the fact that all four officers weren't caucasian. Racism doesn't stop at white people, it can be instigated by any person of colour. It is just disproportionally aimed at African American people, to an excessive and fatal level.

I find it needless to cherry pick Sterling's comments on why 'only' a third of footballers are black, obviously he himself doesn't understand the demographics, and news channels will generally sensationalise what influential people will say. It raises another issue, which I would be on your side with - oftentimes certain sectors will promote diversity to an unhealthy amount so much so that a minority population in a field will be given more job opportunities than a typical person applying for that same field.

Pokerman hasn't cherry picked Sterling's comments because that is not what Sterling has said. He has either deliberately misquoted him and turned what he did say from being a valid criticism to a piece of fiction or he has just parroted a populist right wing opinion piece, like the ones in the 'sources' he provided.

Sterling said that given that one third of footballers in the league are black, the fact that they are barely represented further up the chain of command shows there is still a strong bias against them. Managers are former players and if there wasn't bias you would expect to see the proportion mirrored higher up. It is a valid criticism.

pokerman wrote:Let's run a few stories and see who is comfortable about all of this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIPgYeR5KLQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7aQ02YX7qo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t-hMoszGR4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eBqvlgeRpo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4fockTm8qw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0w9H7jJp7I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHD2LUaar8g

Defunding the police, I wonder how many on here would be happy at having to find their own means to protect themselves?

If defunding the police meant getting rid of the police it would be called "scrapping the police"

Defunding the police refers to reducing their budget and responsibilities and investing the money in other programs.

The police would still exist and would still be funded, just not to the levels currently seen - which has seen them equipped like the Avengers to attack American citizens while at the same time American doctors have been wearing bin bags to fight a pandemic.

Only someone trying to whip up hysteria by putting the false idea that people have to defend themselves against organised crime would push the agenda that it means scrapping the police altog... oh, it's Tucker Carslon. Enough said.

As for removing statues of slave traders and renaming streets that were named after slave traders. The fact that Britain still had statues of slave traders up in the 21st century was the most shocking thing I learned this week. The fact that lobbyists have been fighting attempts to have them removed is even worse.

Statues are monuments to great people, they are not - as some people are trying to paint them - something we learn history from. History is recorded in books, analysed in papers and displayed in museums. Statues are put to to celebrate and commemorate great people or events.

Colston made money from slavery, and as was vogue for the elite at the time, invested in philanthropic causes to try and buy his way into heaven. That money came from his profits, thus was blood money from the slave trade. It's worse than a bank robber donating part of his loot to charity. That act in no way makes up for the poor deed committed.

I suggest you read this analysis by Professor of History Kate Williams: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1270 ... 90728.html

Alienturnedhuman wrote:

pokerman wrote:Let's run a few stories and see who is comfortable about all of this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIPgYeR5KLQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7aQ02YX7qo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t-hMoszGR4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eBqvlgeRpo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4fockTm8qw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0w9H7jJp7I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHD2LUaar8g

Defunding the police, I wonder how many on here would be happy at having to find their own means to protect themselves?

Only someone trying to whip up hysteria by putting the false idea that people have to defend themselves against organised crime would push the agenda that it means scrapping the police altog... oh, it's Tucker Carslon. Enough said.

Thanks for saving me from accidentally exposing myself to Tucker Carslon!

In case you didn't know pokerman, Carlson is a propaganda man for whatever far-right agenda pays him. Nothing he says can be taken as serious or even factual.