Page 11 of 13
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:12 pm
by Alienturnedhuman
People complaining to Ofcom is not being in trouble with Ofcom. And even if Ofcom ruled that an offence had been committed (which as a lives sports show, and the broadcasting of the events there, no offence has been committed) - it would not be Formula 1 at fault, it would be the broadcasters Channel 4 and Sky Sports.
Formula 1 is an international organisation, Ofcom is a government body covering the broadcast and communications in the United Kingdom. They have zero authority over Formula 1. It would be like reporting them to the Food Standards Organisation because the Pirelli tyres tasted like bad cheese.
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:24 am
by Siao7
Alienturnedhuman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:12 pm
People complaining to Ofcom is not being in trouble with Ofcom. And even if Ofcom ruled that an offence had been committed (which as a lives sports show, and the broadcasting of the events there, no offence has been committed) - it would not be Formula 1 at fault, it would be the broadcasters Channel 4 and Sky Sports.
Formula 1 is an international organisation, Ofcom is a government body covering the broadcast and communications in the United Kingdom. They have zero authority over Formula 1. It would be like reporting them to the Food Standards Organisation because the Pirelli tyres tasted like bad cheese.
They do taste horrible though!
Re: F1 In trouble with Ofcom.
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:25 am
by Siao7
F1 MERCENARY wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:13 pm
LOL Good luck with that. The WORLD STAGE today is such that Sports ARE VEHICLES FOR MAKING POLITICAL STATEMENTS and sorry to burst your bubble, but there is no way ANYONE has the testicular fortitude to tell a Black man in Lewis Hamilton to not voice his opinion on political issues, especially ones that involve people of color.
Furthermore, in WHAT way does Lewis using his position and global stature and reach to bring awareness to issues like these that would otherwise never be known by the masses, affect YOU or the race weekend in any way??!?!?
Simple… it doesn't.
Being Puerto Rican I am a born US Citizen yet I'm a minority and have been subject to prejudices and have had encounters with police where I was treated as less than just because I'm not white and some felt intimidated because my level of intellect was far greater than the "officers" and they felt like I was trying to belittle them because they didn't understand simple English.
So I'm sorry that you feel bothered by Lewis voicing his opinion on such a large stage, but it's thanks to athletes who have been doing this very thing for several years now that certain individuals and police have been held accountable for their actions and were brought to justice. These are highly complex times because of the struggle for those in power to hold onto it, while under constant scrutiny because the supposed "lesser" man is finally standing strong and standing tall and no longer accepting that it's their club and we aren't allowed to even buy a jacket to attend their party.
I think you're better served if you broaden your horizons and start standing WITH your fellow man so that everyone is afforded the same rights across the board and so that no one has to live with the constant fear of police simply for the color of their skin and their ethnicity. Far too often police have gotten away with literal murder, not to mention all the other crimes many officers commit simply because they feel their badge is a license to do as they please, and that needs to stop.
I think some people do not understand what people who oppose this mean. It is not the cause that they oppose, it is the way it is shoved down their throats. Hamilton has his Instagram or Tweeter followers, plus the Mercedes platform. No one is saying that he shouldn't rally for that cause, it is not even being contested that equality should be the norm (waiting to be called a grandpa any minute now!).
But it is just a bit much to see it on the F1 races every weekend when people watch sports to just relax and watch the sport. I don't think it matters much in the grand scheme of things (seeing Hamilton in a t-shirt for 2'), but I understand why people do not like it.
Re: F1 In trouble with Ofcom.
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:29 am
by TedStriker
Siao7 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:25 am
F1 MERCENARY wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:13 pm
LOL Good luck with that. The WORLD STAGE today is such that Sports ARE VEHICLES FOR MAKING POLITICAL STATEMENTS and sorry to burst your bubble, but there is no way ANYONE has the testicular fortitude to tell a Black man in Lewis Hamilton to not voice his opinion on political issues, especially ones that involve people of color.
Furthermore, in WHAT way does Lewis using his position and global stature and reach to bring awareness to issues like these that would otherwise never be known by the masses, affect YOU or the race weekend in any way??!?!?
Simple… it doesn't.
Being Puerto Rican I am a born US Citizen yet I'm a minority and have been subject to prejudices and have had encounters with police where I was treated as less than just because I'm not white and some felt intimidated because my level of intellect was far greater than the "officers" and they felt like I was trying to belittle them because they didn't understand simple English.
So I'm sorry that you feel bothered by Lewis voicing his opinion on such a large stage, but it's thanks to athletes who have been doing this very thing for several years now that certain individuals and police have been held accountable for their actions and were brought to justice. These are highly complex times because of the struggle for those in power to hold onto it, while under constant scrutiny because the supposed "lesser" man is finally standing strong and standing tall and no longer accepting that it's their club and we aren't allowed to even buy a jacket to attend their party.
I think you're better served if you broaden your horizons and start standing WITH your fellow man so that everyone is afforded the same rights across the board and so that no one has to live with the constant fear of police simply for the color of their skin and their ethnicity. Far too often police have gotten away with literal murder, not to mention all the other crimes many officers commit simply because they feel their badge is a license to do as they please, and that needs to stop.
I think some people do not understand what people who oppose this mean. It is not the cause that they oppose, it is the way it is shoved down their throats. Hamilton has his Instagram or Tweeter followers, plus the Mercedes platform. No one is saying that he shouldn't rally for that cause, it is not even being contested that equality should be the norm (waiting to be called a grandpa any minute now!).
But it is just a bit much to see it on the F1 races every weekend when people watch sports to just relax and watch the sport. I don't think it matters much in the grand scheme of things (seeing Hamilton in a t-shirt for 2'), but I understand why people do not like it.
I agree. I don't have a problem with his message if that's what he believes in, but I wonder if any of the other drivers have a cause they are passionate about and would like to make it public in a similar fashion. Maybe Max with a 'Justice for Uighur Muslims' T Shirt, or Alex with 'End modern day slavery'.
I think you'd find the FIA rapidly moved to stop it should more drivers wish to use their privileged position to advance their chosen issues.
I also find the black power salute rather distasteful when you're stood on top of a podium largely because of a huge diverse team behind you.
And not that it should matter when responding to my opinion, but I am not white. Actually I am mixed race/half white, just like Lewis. A fact he seems almost ashamed of.
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:39 pm
by Banana Man
I really can't see any of these gestures by sportsmen and other celebrities achieving anything, for the fundamental reason that I don't think awareness is the issue. Whilst America clearly has racial issues, I cannot agree with the idea that they exist because people are either unaware of them, or don't realise it's wrong.
I saw one rather disgusting video from a town in Arkansas, where a black man was holding up a BLM banner by the side of the road and was getting some foul abuse from the locals driving past. I don't think anyone one of them hadn't been informed at some point that racism is wrong, they chose to live the way they do because of the way perceive society.
Very often I think a lot of it is a class issue and race just happens to correlate. Until America can tackle it's problems with poverty and learn to let go of religion, I can't see much changing.
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:19 pm
by TedStriker
Banana Man wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:39 pm
I really can't see any of these gestures by sportsmen and other celebrities achieving anything, for the fundamental reason that I don't think awareness is the issue. Whilst America clearly has racial issues, I cannot agree with the idea that they exist because people are either unaware of them, or don't realise it's wrong.
I saw one rather disgusting video from a town in Arkansas, where a black man was holding up a BLM banner by the side of the road and was getting some foul abuse from the locals driving past. I don't think anyone one of them hadn't been informed at some point that racism is wrong, they chose to live the way they do because of the way perceive society.
Very often I think a lot of it is a class issue and race just happens to correlate. Until America can tackle it's problems with poverty and learn to let go of religion, I can't see much changing.
The main problem BLM has is its identity. One is the message that Black Lives Matter, which of course they do. The other is BLM as a movement intent on destroying Western society. BLM UK for instance have the following to say:
'We’re guided by a commitment to dismantle imperialism, capitalism, white-supremacy, patriarchy and the state structures that disproportionately harm black people in Britain and around the world'
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:11 pm
by Banana Man
As a political group I have no time for them. They bear all the hallmarks of fascism; mandatory gesturing, compulsory uniforms, persecution of a minority, suppression of the arts, an aggressive often violent persecution of their opponents, an obsession with martyrs and heroes.
Lewis would do well not to associate with them as a group and perhaps chose a different slogan. The ‘End Racism’ T-shirts worn by the rest of the grid would suffice but he has a need to stand out and be different.
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:07 pm
by Asphalt_World
Not sure Hamilton deserves too much hassle for supporting anti-racism in such a public manner, when Mercedes changes the colour of their entire car to show support.
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:36 am
by Siao7
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:07 pm
Not sure Hamilton deserves too much hassle for supporting anti-racism in such a public manner, when Mercedes changes the colour of their entire car to show support.
It is a much subtler way to show support though, isn't it?
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:37 am
by Siao7
Banana Man wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:11 pm
As a political group I have no time for them. They bear all the hallmarks of racism; mandatory gesturing, compulsory uniforms, persecution of a minority, suppression of the arts, an aggressive often violent persecution of their opponents, an obsession with martyrs and heroes.
Lewis would do well not to associate with them as a group and perhaps chose a different slogan. The ‘End Racism’ T-shirts worn by the rest of the grid would suffice but he has a need to stand out and be different.
Yeah, they are in danger of almost becoming the very thing they are preaching against.
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:55 pm
by Jezza13
Siao7 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:37 am
Banana Man wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:11 pm
As a political group I have no time for them. They bear all the hallmarks of racism; mandatory gesturing, compulsory uniforms, persecution of a minority, suppression of the arts, an aggressive often violent persecution of their opponents, an obsession with martyrs and heroes.
Lewis would do well not to associate with them as a group and perhaps chose a different slogan. The ‘End Racism’ T-shirts worn by the rest of the grid would suffice but he has a need to stand out and be different.
Yeah, they are in danger of almost becoming the very thing they are preaching against.
I'm actually a little surprised Hamilton's continuing to link himself with the BLM movement considering all the destruction that's occurred in the name of fighting for racial equality. Despite the best efforts of mainstream & social media as well as the Democratic Party, the term BLM is quickly becoming synonymous with all the violent, intimidating, destructive & manipulative actions that's consistent with the fascist movement to the point where it's now losing support across almost all racial sectors, including black people.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... americans/
If Hamilton, like the other drivers, wants to wear the "End Racism" t-shirts, bend their knees & in Hamilton's case, raise an arm, then fair enough, though i'm not convinced it's going to achieve anything more than show token support for the cause, but as long as he continues to wear the BLM shirts he continues to risk being associated with a group now becoming known not for pursuing equality through peaceful discourse but one pursuing power through violence fueled by misguided hatred & vengeance.
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:57 pm
by DeadKenny
I find it so sad that the people on this forum think they are "helping" by suggesting how Lewis should deal with this issue, because clearly it's not at all ironic that a load of white people are telling him how to accept something that they have absolutely no clue about, and from the comments, have not the ability to empathise ?
The fact that they are telling him what he's doing wrong and why they are right, is precisely the kind of arrogance and privilege that Black people are protesting about
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:56 pm
by Jezza13
DeadKenny wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:57 pm
I find it so sad that the people on this forum think they are "helping" by suggesting how Lewis should deal with this issue, because clearly it's not at all ironic that a load of white people are telling him how to accept something that they have absolutely no clue about, and from the comments, have not the ability to empathise ?
The fact that they are telling him what he's doing wrong and why they are right, is precisely the kind of arrogance and privilege that Black people are protesting about
Well they're not really protests are they? Much more riots more than protests. I mean a protest doesn't usually involve killing people & torching buildings does it? No, definitely riots.
As for white people not having a clue, did you know that, in the US anyway, even though more black people have interactions with police, whites are consistently killed by police at a rate of almost 2 to 1 when compare to black people?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/585 ... e-by-race/
So basically that means black people are far more likely to survive an interaction with the police than white people, so why would whites not be able to empathize or not understand the effects of police brutality?
As for telling Hamilton what's right & what's wrong, personally I don't think he could care less what anyone says, especially some random keyboard warrior on a motor racing forum & especially if said keyboard warrior's going against the narrative. He'll just believe what he feels is right to him. He feels he's making a statement consistent with what he understands regarding police brutality & he has every right to do that, but as was shown in the link I provided in my previous post, most people, from all racial backgrounds, are starting to distance themselves from the organisation.
It's interesting though DeadKenny that you, like another in this thread, decided to structure your post not with a considered, intellectual rebuttal, or a quote from someone with a depth of knowledge on this subject, or links to sites that support your side of the debate, but instead you decided to retreat to the most basic yet common of retorts regarding this topic, the racial slur.
I'm starting to see a definite pattern here.
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:43 pm
by Siao7
DeadKenny wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:57 pm
I find it so sad that the people on this forum think they are "helping" by suggesting how Lewis should deal with this issue, because clearly it's not at all ironic that a load of white people are telling him how to accept something that they have absolutely no clue about, and from the comments, have not the ability to empathise ?
The fact that they are telling him what he's doing wrong and why they are right, is precisely the kind of arrogance and privilege that Black people are protesting about
Very bizarre, you really think Hamilton reads this forum? How are the posters telling him what to do?
I'm fed up being called privileged, arrogant and... what was it? Oh yeah, grandpa, because I have a different opinion. Throwing accusations left right and center without any consideration and any idea why. I'd suggest you would try and understand what is being said first
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:45 pm
by Asphalt_World
Siao7 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:43 pm
DeadKenny wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:57 pm
I find it so sad that the people on this forum think they are "helping" by suggesting how Lewis should deal with this issue, because clearly it's not at all ironic that a load of white people are telling him how to accept something that they have absolutely no clue about, and from the comments, have not the ability to empathise ?
The fact that they are telling him what he's doing wrong and why they are right, is precisely the kind of arrogance and privilege that Black people are protesting about
Very bizarre, you really think Hamilton reads this forum? How are the posters telling him what to do?
I'm fed up being called privileged, arrogant and... what was it? Oh yeah, grandpa, because I have a different opinion. Throwing accusations left right and center without any consideration and any idea why. I'd suggest you would try and understand what is being said first
No, I am sure he doesn't read this forum, but it's symbolic of the world we live in that so many people who have never ever been subject to racism seem so happy to tell those who have, how to deal with it.
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:47 pm
by Asphalt_World
Siao7 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:36 am
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:07 pm
Not sure Hamilton deserves too much hassle for supporting anti-racism in such a public manner, when Mercedes changes the colour of their entire car to show support.
It is a much subtler way to show support though, isn't it?
Yes, but when Mercedes showed the newly painted car, they told the world that it was in support of anti-racism and therefore their entire team colours this year from the car, pit crew outfits and pretty much everything else, is all supporting the cause.
Personally, I think this is brilliant, but if people complain about Lewis bringing up racism and equality, well the leading team in the sport do it too.
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:39 pm
by Banana Man
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:45 pm
Siao7 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:43 pm
DeadKenny wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:57 pm
I find it so sad that the people on this forum think they are "helping" by suggesting how Lewis should deal with this issue, because clearly it's not at all ironic that a load of white people are telling him how to accept something that they have absolutely no clue about, and from the comments, have not the ability to empathise ?
The fact that they are telling him what he's doing wrong and why they are right, is precisely the kind of arrogance and privilege that Black people are protesting about
Very bizarre, you really think Hamilton reads this forum? How are the posters telling him what to do?
I'm fed up being called privileged, arrogant and... what was it? Oh yeah, grandpa, because I have a different opinion. Throwing accusations left right and center without any consideration and any idea why. I'd suggest you would try and understand what is being said first
No, I am sure he doesn't read this forum, but it's symbolic of the world we live in that so many people who have never ever been subject to racism seem so happy to tell those who have, how to deal with it.
It’s beyond ignorant of you to assume that white people can’t be subject to racism. I’ve been to Dubai (one of the more tolerant Middle Eastern countries) many times and had family who lived in Saudi Arabia for several years and they have a very clear hierarchy based on race. The local Arabs (Emiratis and Saudis) at the top, then other Muslims, then western expats, then the South East Asian slave labour. If I ever expressed my religious views freely, I’d be executed. A colleague of a very good friend of mine was thrown off a skyscraper by one of the locals. Everyone knew what happened but the police weren’t interested.
Being a victim doesn’t make you an expert. If anything you lose the ability to perceive objectively. Let’s put it this way, I f you were in court accused of murder, whether or not you were guilty, would you want the victims family on the jury?
I can never know or feel what Lewis and others have been through and nor would I claim to. Neither will I take his views and opinions as gospel.
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:29 pm
by Asphalt_World
Banana Man wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:39 pm
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:45 pm
Siao7 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:43 pm
DeadKenny wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:57 pm
I find it so sad that the people on this forum think they are "helping" by suggesting how Lewis should deal with this issue, because clearly it's not at all ironic that a load of white people are telling him how to accept something that they have absolutely no clue about, and from the comments, have not the ability to empathise ?
The fact that they are telling him what he's doing wrong and why they are right, is precisely the kind of arrogance and privilege that Black people are protesting about
Very bizarre, you really think Hamilton reads this forum? How are the posters telling him what to do?
I'm fed up being called privileged, arrogant and... what was it? Oh yeah, grandpa, because I have a different opinion. Throwing accusations left right and center without any consideration and any idea why. I'd suggest you would try and understand what is being said first
No, I am sure he doesn't read this forum, but it's symbolic of the world we live in that so many people who have never ever been subject to racism seem so happy to tell those who have, how to deal with it.
It’s beyond ignorant of you to assume that white people can’t be subject to racism. I’ve been to Dubai (one of the more tolerant Middle Eastern countries) many times and had family who lived in Saudi Arabia for several years and they have a very clear hierarchy based on race. The local Arabs (Emiratis and Saudis) at the top, then other Muslims, then western expats, then the South East Asian slave labour. If I ever expressed my religious views freely, I’d be executed. A colleague of a very good friend of mine was thrown off a skyscraper by one of the locals. Everyone knew what happened but the police weren’t interested.
Being a victim doesn’t make you an expert. If anything you lose the ability to perceive objectively. Let’s put it this way, I f you were in court accused of murder, whether or not you were guilty, would you want the victims family on the jury?
I can never know or feel what Lewis and others have been through and nor would I claim to. Neither will I take his views and opinions as gospel.
Could you highlight the part where I said that a white person could not or has not ever been subject to racism? If not, I'd appreciate you taking back your comments about my ignorance. I won't be holding my breath though!
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:46 pm
by Banana Man
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:29 pm
Banana Man wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:39 pm
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:45 pm
Siao7 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:43 pm
DeadKenny wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:57 pm
I find it so sad that the people on this forum think they are "helping" by suggesting how Lewis should deal with this issue, because clearly it's not at all ironic that a load of white people are telling him how to accept something that they have absolutely no clue about, and from the comments, have not the ability to empathise ?
The fact that they are telling him what he's doing wrong and why they are right, is precisely the kind of arrogance and privilege that Black people are protesting about
Very bizarre, you really think Hamilton reads this forum? How are the posters telling him what to do?
I'm fed up being called privileged, arrogant and... what was it? Oh yeah, grandpa, because I have a different opinion. Throwing accusations left right and center without any consideration and any idea why. I'd suggest you would try and understand what is being said first
No, I am sure he doesn't read this forum, but it's symbolic of the world we live in that so many people who have never ever been subject to racism seem so happy to tell those who have, how to deal with it.
It’s beyond ignorant of you to assume that white people can’t be subject to racism. I’ve been to Dubai (one of the more tolerant Middle Eastern countries) many times and had family who lived in Saudi Arabia for several years and they have a very clear hierarchy based on race. The local Arabs (Emiratis and Saudis) at the top, then other Muslims, then western expats, then the South East Asian slave labour. If I ever expressed my religious views freely, I’d be executed. A colleague of a very good friend of mine was thrown off a skyscraper by one of the locals. Everyone knew what happened but the police weren’t interested.
Being a victim doesn’t make you an expert. If anything you lose the ability to perceive objectively. Let’s put it this way, I f you were in court accused of murder, whether or not you were guilty, would you want the victims family on the jury?
I can never know or feel what Lewis and others have been through and nor would I claim to. Neither will I take his views and opinions as gospel.
Could you highlight the part where I said that a white person could not or has not ever been subject to racism? If not, I'd appreciate you taking back your comments about my ignorance. I won't be holding my breath though!
Well, mainly the bit where you said, "so many people who have never, ever been subject to racism."
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:54 pm
by Asphalt_World
Banana Man wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:46 pm
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:29 pm
Banana Man wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:39 pm
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:45 pm
Siao7 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:43 pm
Very bizarre, you really think Hamilton reads this forum? How are the posters telling him what to do?
I'm fed up being called privileged, arrogant and... what was it? Oh yeah, grandpa, because I have a different opinion. Throwing accusations left right and center without any consideration and any idea why. I'd suggest you would try and understand what is being said first
No, I am sure he doesn't read this forum, but it's symbolic of the world we live in that so many people who have never ever been subject to racism seem so happy to tell those who have, how to deal with it.
It’s beyond ignorant of you to assume that white people can’t be subject to racism. I’ve been to Dubai (one of the more tolerant Middle Eastern countries) many times and had family who lived in Saudi Arabia for several years and they have a very clear hierarchy based on race. The local Arabs (Emiratis and Saudis) at the top, then other Muslims, then western expats, then the South East Asian slave labour. If I ever expressed my religious views freely, I’d be executed. A colleague of a very good friend of mine was thrown off a skyscraper by one of the locals. Everyone knew what happened but the police weren’t interested.
Being a victim doesn’t make you an expert. If anything you lose the ability to perceive objectively. Let’s put it this way, I f you were in court accused of murder, whether or not you were guilty, would you want the victims family on the jury?
I can never know or feel what Lewis and others have been through and nor would I claim to. Neither will I take his views and opinions as gospel.
Could you highlight the part where I said that a white person could not or has not ever been subject to racism? If not, I'd appreciate you taking back your comments about my ignorance. I won't be holding my breath though!
Well, mainly the bit where you said, "so many people who have never, ever been subject to racism."
As I said, please highlight the bit where I said that white people can't be subject to racism.
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:03 pm
by Banana Man
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:54 pm
Banana Man wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:46 pm
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:29 pm
Banana Man wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:39 pm
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:45 pm
No, I am sure he doesn't read this forum, but it's symbolic of the world we live in that so many people who have never ever been subject to racism seem so happy to tell those who have, how to deal with it.
It’s beyond ignorant of you to assume that white people can’t be subject to racism. I’ve been to Dubai (one of the more tolerant Middle Eastern countries) many times and had family who lived in Saudi Arabia for several years and they have a very clear hierarchy based on race. The local Arabs (Emiratis and Saudis) at the top, then other Muslims, then western expats, then the South East Asian slave labour. If I ever expressed my religious views freely, I’d be executed. A colleague of a very good friend of mine was thrown off a skyscraper by one of the locals. Everyone knew what happened but the police weren’t interested.
Being a victim doesn’t make you an expert. If anything you lose the ability to perceive objectively. Let’s put it this way, I f you were in court accused of murder, whether or not you were guilty, would you want the victims family on the jury?
I can never know or feel what Lewis and others have been through and nor would I claim to. Neither will I take his views and opinions as gospel.
Could you highlight the part where I said that a white person could not or has not ever been subject to racism? If not, I'd appreciate you taking back your comments about my ignorance. I won't be holding my breath though!
Well, mainly the bit where you said, "so many people who have never, ever been subject to racism."
As I said, please highlight the bit where I said that white people can't be subject to racism.
If your statement wasn’t based on race then I take it back, although I am now a little confused. By what evidence are you asserting that people discussing these issues have never been the subject of racism?
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:09 pm
by Asphalt_World
Banana Man wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:03 pm
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:54 pm
Banana Man wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:46 pm
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:29 pm
Banana Man wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:39 pm
It’s beyond ignorant of you to assume that white people can’t be subject to racism. I’ve been to Dubai (one of the more tolerant Middle Eastern countries) many times and had family who lived in Saudi Arabia for several years and they have a very clear hierarchy based on race. The local Arabs (Emiratis and Saudis) at the top, then other Muslims, then western expats, then the South East Asian slave labour. If I ever expressed my religious views freely, I’d be executed. A colleague of a very good friend of mine was thrown off a skyscraper by one of the locals. Everyone knew what happened but the police weren’t interested.
Being a victim doesn’t make you an expert. If anything you lose the ability to perceive objectively. Let’s put it this way, I f you were in court accused of murder, whether or not you were guilty, would you want the victims family on the jury?
I can never know or feel what Lewis and others have been through and nor would I claim to. Neither will I take his views and opinions as gospel.
Could you highlight the part where I said that a white person could not or has not ever been subject to racism? If not, I'd appreciate you taking back your comments about my ignorance. I won't be holding my breath though!
Well, mainly the bit where you said, "so many people who have never, ever been subject to racism."
As I said, please highlight the bit where I said that white people can't be subject to racism.
If your statement wasn’t based on race then I take it back, although I am now a little confused. By what evidence are you asserting that people discussing these issues have never been the subject of racism?
This isn't about the Planet F1 forum. I would bet everything on the fact that the overwhelming majority of white people in the UK, USA plus other countries, who are politically a long way right and spout racist crap all over the place including attempting to portray racism as fake or no worse than a minor problem, have not been subjected to racism themselves.
My original comment that caused you to call me ignorant, specifically said 'so many people' not all white people!
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:25 pm
by Banana Man
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:09 pm
Banana Man wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:03 pm
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:54 pm
Banana Man wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:46 pm
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:29 pm
Could you highlight the part where I said that a white person could not or has not ever been subject to racism? If not, I'd appreciate you taking back your comments about my ignorance. I won't be holding my breath though!
Well, mainly the bit where you said, "so many people who have never, ever been subject to racism."
As I said, please highlight the bit where I said that white people can't be subject to racism.
If your statement wasn’t based on race then I take it back, although I am now a little confused. By what evidence are you asserting that people discussing these issues have never been the subject of racism?
This isn't about the Planet F1 forum. I would bet everything on the fact that the overwhelming majority of white people in the UK, USA plus other countries, who are politically a long way right and spout racist crap all over the place including attempting to portray racism as fake or no worse than a minor problem, have not been subjected to racism themselves.
My original comment that caused you to call me ignorant, specifically said 'so many people' not all white people!
I don’t know how to interpret this. Are you saying the majority of white people in the UK and US are a long way right, or specifically referring to the far right element of these countries?
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:32 pm
by Asphalt_World
Banana Man wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:25 pm
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:09 pm
Banana Man wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:03 pm
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:54 pm
Banana Man wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:46 pm
Well, mainly the bit where you said, "so many people who have never, ever been subject to racism."
As I said, please highlight the bit where I said that white people can't be subject to racism.
If your statement wasn’t based on race then I take it back, although I am now a little confused. By what evidence are you asserting that people discussing these issues have never been the subject of racism?
This isn't about the Planet F1 forum. I would bet everything on the fact that the overwhelming majority of white people in the UK, USA plus other countries, who are politically a long way right and spout racist crap all over the place including attempting to portray racism as fake or no worse than a minor problem, have not been subjected to racism themselves.
My original comment that caused you to call me ignorant, specifically said 'so many people' not all white people!
I don’t know how to interpret this. Are you saying the majority of white people in the UK and US are a long way right, or specifically referring to the far right element of these countries?
I giving up for now. You accused me of ignorance by making assumptions about what I said and now can't understand the above. Of course I don't think the majority of people in those countries are a long way right. I'm talking about those that are that way..... I've got Le Mans to watch.
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:42 pm
by Banana Man
You’re making ambiguous statements about what you assume people you’ve never met may have experienced, or not. If you say things like, "the overwhelming majority of white people... who are politically a long way right," that’s fairly open ended and open to interpretation. All I asked for was clarity.
Anyway, this is becoming tedious again and as you say, Le Mans is on.
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:47 pm
by TedStriker
DeadKenny wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:57 pm
I find it so sad that the people on this forum think they are "helping" by suggesting how Lewis should deal with this issue, because clearly it's not at all ironic that a load of white people are telling him how to accept something that they have absolutely no clue about, and from the comments, have not the ability to empathise ?
The fact that they are telling him what he's doing wrong and why they are right, is precisely the kind of arrogance and privilege that Black people are protesting about
Where are the 'load of white people' you speak of? Or do you just assume that anyone that doesn't 100% agree with every one of Lewis' actions must be white? Because let me tell you, you are wrong. I'm also detecting a fair amount of racism from you too, calling white people arrogant. Bit of a race based generalisation, don't you think?
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:10 am
by Jezza13
TedStriker wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:47 pm
DeadKenny wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:57 pm
I find it so sad that the people on this forum think they are "helping" by suggesting how Lewis should deal with this issue, because clearly it's not at all ironic that a load of white people are telling him how to accept something that they have absolutely no clue about, and from the comments, have not the ability to empathise ?
The fact that they are telling him what he's doing wrong and why they are right, is precisely the kind of arrogance and privilege that Black people are protesting about
Where are the 'load of white people' you speak of? Or do you just assume that anyone that doesn't 100% agree with every one of Lewis' actions must be white? Because let me tell you, you are wrong. I'm also detecting a fair amount of racism from you too, calling white people arrogant. Bit of a race based generalisation, don't you think?
Well if it's now a pre-requisite that you can't comment or proffer an opinion on a subject unless you've had first hand experience on said subject then we might as well shut this forum down because, & this is only a guess, I'd doubt too many of us have raced, designed, repaired or manufactured a F1 car, led a F1 team, been a member of the FIA or an employee of Liberty Media directly involved with F1.
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:25 am
by Jezza13
Double post removed
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:26 am
by Jezza13
Triple post removed.
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:37 am
by Siao7
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:45 pm
Siao7 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:43 pm
DeadKenny wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:57 pm
I find it so sad that the people on this forum think they are "helping" by suggesting how Lewis should deal with this issue, because clearly it's not at all ironic that a load of white people are telling him how to accept something that they have absolutely no clue about, and from the comments, have not the ability to empathise ?
The fact that they are telling him what he's doing wrong and why they are right, is precisely the kind of arrogance and privilege that Black people are protesting about
Very bizarre, you really think Hamilton reads this forum? How are the posters telling him what to do?
I'm fed up being called privileged, arrogant and... what was it? Oh yeah, grandpa, because I have a different opinion. Throwing accusations left right and center without any consideration and any idea why. I'd suggest you would try and understand what is being said first
No, I am sure he doesn't read this forum, but it's symbolic of the world we live in that so many people who have never ever been subject to racism seem so happy to tell those who have, how to deal with it.
It is also symbolic that people just get tarred with the same brush. Posters in here do not know me personally or my behaviour, but still I am branded as an ignorant white privileged grandpa! There are stark similarities. I also do not enjoy being compared to the redneck racist idiots you get to see in reddit's publicfreakout videos... It is insulting frankly.
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:46 am
by Siao7
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:47 pm
Siao7 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:36 am
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:07 pm
Not sure Hamilton deserves too much hassle for supporting anti-racism in such a public manner, when Mercedes changes the colour of their entire car to show support.
It is a much subtler way to show support though, isn't it?
Yes, but when Mercedes showed the newly painted car, they told the world that it was in support of anti-racism and therefore their entire team colours this year from the car, pit crew outfits and pretty much everything else, is all supporting the cause.
Personally, I think this is brilliant, but if people complain about Lewis bringing up racism and equality, well the leading team in the sport do it too.
I was happy too, the Merc is supporting their main man and also a good cause. I would actually like all teams to have a coloured stripe or whatever insignia for this (I won't say a BLM insignia as reading at their doctrines, this is not an organisation that I would support), but I guess it won't happen. Won't stop me watching F1 nor would it mean that they are racist.
I think that you are missing the point though; it is a tad different to calling out people, shaming other teams, etc. This is not the way to engage people, I find it distasteful.
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:17 am
by TedStriker
Siao7 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:37 am
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:45 pm
Siao7 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:43 pm
DeadKenny wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:57 pm
I find it so sad that the people on this forum think they are "helping" by suggesting how Lewis should deal with this issue, because clearly it's not at all ironic that a load of white people are telling him how to accept something that they have absolutely no clue about, and from the comments, have not the ability to empathise ?
The fact that they are telling him what he's doing wrong and why they are right, is precisely the kind of arrogance and privilege that Black people are protesting about
Very bizarre, you really think Hamilton reads this forum? How are the posters telling him what to do?
I'm fed up being called privileged, arrogant and... what was it? Oh yeah, grandpa, because I have a different opinion. Throwing accusations left right and center without any consideration and any idea why. I'd suggest you would try and understand what is being said first
No, I am sure he doesn't read this forum, but it's symbolic of the world we live in that so many people who have never ever been subject to racism seem so happy to tell those who have, how to deal with it.
It is also symbolic that people just get tarred with the same brush. Posters in here do not know me personally or my behaviour, but still I am branded as an ignorant white privileged grandpa! There are stark similarities. I also do not enjoy being compared to the redneck racist idiots you get to see in reddit's publicfreakout videos... It is insulting frankly.
Maybe we should incude our racial credentials in our signatures so people know whether our thoughts are worth considering or not?
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:58 pm
by Siao7
TedStriker wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:17 am
Siao7 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:37 am
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:45 pm
Siao7 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:43 pm
DeadKenny wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:57 pm
I find it so sad that the people on this forum think they are "helping" by suggesting how Lewis should deal with this issue, because clearly it's not at all ironic that a load of white people are telling him how to accept something that they have absolutely no clue about, and from the comments, have not the ability to empathise ?
The fact that they are telling him what he's doing wrong and why they are right, is precisely the kind of arrogance and privilege that Black people are protesting about
Very bizarre, you really think Hamilton reads this forum? How are the posters telling him what to do?
I'm fed up being called privileged, arrogant and... what was it? Oh yeah, grandpa, because I have a different opinion. Throwing accusations left right and center without any consideration and any idea why. I'd suggest you would try and understand what is being said first
No, I am sure he doesn't read this forum, but it's symbolic of the world we live in that so many people who have never ever been subject to racism seem so happy to tell those who have, how to deal with it.
It is also symbolic that people just get tarred with the same brush. Posters in here do not know me personally or my behaviour, but still I am branded as an ignorant white privileged grandpa! There are stark similarities. I also do not enjoy being compared to the redneck racist idiots you get to see in reddit's publicfreakout videos... It is insulting frankly.
Maybe we should incude our racial credentials in our signatures so people know whether our thoughts are worth considering or not?
Don't give them ideas!
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:18 am
by Jezza13
Siao7 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:58 pm
TedStriker wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:17 am
Siao7 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:37 am
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:45 pm
Siao7 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:43 pm
Very bizarre, you really think Hamilton reads this forum? How are the posters telling him what to do?
I'm fed up being called privileged, arrogant and... what was it? Oh yeah, grandpa, because I have a different opinion. Throwing accusations left right and center without any consideration and any idea why. I'd suggest you would try and understand what is being said first
No, I am sure he doesn't read this forum, but it's symbolic of the world we live in that so many people who have never ever been subject to racism seem so happy to tell those who have, how to deal with it.
It is also symbolic that people just get tarred with the same brush. Posters in here do not know me personally or my behaviour, but still I am branded as an ignorant white privileged grandpa! There are stark similarities. I also do not enjoy being compared to the redneck racist idiots you get to see in reddit's publicfreakout videos... It is insulting frankly.
Maybe we should incude our racial credentials in our signatures so people know whether our thoughts are worth considering or not?
Don't give them ideas!
Will it be what you are or what you identify as though?
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:15 pm
by Mod Aqua
Ok, you found the line. Stick to the on topic discussion and actual events rather than creating hypothetical strawmen please.
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:31 pm
by Jezza13
Mod Aqua wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:15 pm
Ok, you found the line. Stick to the on topic discussion and actual events rather than creating hypothetical strawmen please.
Really??
I & others here have copped racial & ageist slur's off at least 2 posters during this thread & we've not heard boo from you guy's, & personally i'm glad we've not, but these comments are over the line?
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:51 pm
by Mod Aqua
Jezza13 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:31 pm
Mod Aqua wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:15 pm
Ok, you found the line. Stick to the on topic discussion and actual events rather than creating hypothetical strawmen please.
Really??
I & others here have copped racial & ageist slur's off at least 2 posters during this thread & we've not heard boo from you guy's, & personally i'm glad we've not, but these comments are over the line?
The comment was directed at everyone, hence why no one was quoted. If you feel people have broken the rules, report their posts. If you want to discuss this further, I remind you of the rule to dispute moderator interventions in the official feedback thread rather than further disrupt the thread in question.
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:44 pm
by Siao7
Jezza13 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:31 pm
Mod Aqua wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:15 pm
Ok, you found the line. Stick to the on topic discussion and actual events rather than creating hypothetical strawmen please.
Really??
I & others here have copped racial & ageist slur's off at least 2 posters during this thread & we've not heard boo from you guy's, & personally i'm glad we've not, but these comments are over the line?
Just like the FIA stewards in the 90's, only reported incidents will be investigated (just joking of course!)
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:34 am
by Jezza13
I have to wonder if Liberty & Hamilton have missed an ideal opportunity to really press home their commitment to increasing diversity in the sport by appointing yet another white middle aged man in the form of Stefano Dommenicali to become the new CEO of F1.
To go out & find a P.O.C to lead F1 into the near future, after committing the sport to increasing diversity at the beginning of the season, could've really supercharged the sports driver towards said diversity & garnered global headlines & praise for the move.
While it seems Dommenicali's appointment is one that's being applauded from all sides, I'm slightly perplexed that Liberty & Hamilton, as far as I know anyway, didn't come & address the issue with even a simple statement indicating that they'd hoped to find a P.O.C to fill the vacancy or that they'd even bothered looking to see if there was a suitably qualified P.O.C who may be interested.
Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter
Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:52 pm
by TedStriker
To have 'not being white' as a requirement for filling a position is manifestly racist. And I say that as a 'person of colour'.
I 100% support eliminating all race/gender/age/disability etc barriers to anyone who wants to enter and progress through the sport, however beyond that things should be left to take their natural course based on competence and a certain amount of luck, as it is now.
It's the old 'equality of opportunity vs equality of outcome' debate. In my view the former is essential, the latter is a folly. For more information about why I feel that way, research the gender equality paradox. It's fascinating read and basically shows that the more you equalise equality of opportunity, the more people fall into the same traditional positions as they do now. Helicoptering people into positions because of anything other than competence does no favours for the organisation doing it, or the person themselves.
As for the comment about 'yet another white middle aged man' - some may consider that racist, ageist and sexist. Can you imagine the uproar if someone referred to Usain Bolt disparagingly as 'yet another black man' when looking at a list of 100m record holders? What's the difference, except the skin colour of the target?