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Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:15 pm
by Asphalt_World
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:09 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:00 pm
Rockie wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:54 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:17 pm
If you want to know why the anti-racism message need more and more coverage, just step over to Twitter and search Lewis Hamilton. It's full of racism. Although the t-shirt worn today is no problem for me, I have no problem with people not wanting this kind of thing mixed into sport and that Lewis should find other times to spread his message. However, the amount of comments I found in a matter of about 60 seconds, that are simply racist, is incredible. These aren't people who don't like the way he's trying to spread his message. These are people who hate him because of his race and skin colour and disagree with any attempts to to ensure people of any race are treated equally.
You are just realising this, MLK they all love quoting was killed for fighting for racial equality and was the most hated man in America even with a negative approval rating.
I'm not just realising this, but pointing out how prevalent racism is. It's none stop. I'm sure some people only think it happens in a few places around the world.
You’re on Twitter. Literally any of the 7.8bn people on this planet could be posting on there and I hate to break it to you but some of them aren’t very nice. If you think a few T-shirts are going to change that, I fear you are being incredibly naive. I can’t see this being any more effective that wearing a T-shirt saying, "no more murders!" Or "nonces out!"
So, what's you're answer to reduce racism (because I can't see it ever going) if it's not high profile people to campaign.

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:16 pm
by Asphalt_World
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:12 pm
JN23 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:57 pm
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:52 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:05 pm
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:53 pm
Lewis doesn’t have any evidence, he’s just going with a bunch of press stories and social media rumours. If anything he’s just doing damage as lawyers will use stunts like this as evidence that the media is prejudicial and may get any case thrown out.

Let’s be honest though, what all this is really about is him. What he can be seen to be doing in the press.
You claim Lewis has no evidence and is just going on about things he's read in the media. You then claim, I guess without any evidence, that he's just doing this for himself.

If you believe the first part of what you wrote, you may want to rethink the second part. Unless you have evidence for the second part, of course.
The evidence is how he is behaving with ever increasing aggression and decreasing rationality. Constantly criticising others for not championing his cause, whilst he ignores hundreds of others which are equally valid.

Everyone wearing ‘End Racism’ T-shirts? Not Lewis, he has to be different and wear one which specifically includes everyone except black victims of racism. He has to be the one seen hanging out with Justin Beiber, or Neymar, or skiing with Lindsey Vonn, or rapping with Christina Aguillera. Or there was that GP when he said, "yeah, I was just thinking about Muhammad Ali the whole race."

I used to really like him at McLaren, I was going mental when, "is that Glock?!" Happened but these days I just can’t stand him as an individual. He’s a self obsessed a*se-hat who will jump on any bandwagon which promotes Lewis Hamilton the brand.
What’s up with hanging out with Justin Beiber, Neymar/the others you mention if that’s what LH/those people want to do?

I’m sure you hang out with whoever you want to, like I do, like Lewis Hamilton can.
So you think it’s a coincidence that he so often hangs out with the most famous people he can tag in his Instagram story.
Are you really singling LH out as the main celebrity who posts things on Instagram with other celebrities? Celebrities get invited to events with other celebrities. They become friends. It's hardly a shock.

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:21 pm
by Option or Prime
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:52 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:05 pm
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:53 pm
Lewis doesn’t have any evidence, he’s just going with a bunch of press stories and social media rumours. If anything he’s just doing damage as lawyers will use stunts like this as evidence that the media is prejudicial and may get any case thrown out.

Let’s be honest though, what all this is really about is him. What he can be seen to be doing in the press.
You claim Lewis has no evidence and is just going on about things he's read in the media. You then claim, I guess without any evidence, that he's just doing this for himself.

If you believe the first part of what you wrote, you may want to rethink the second part. Unless you have evidence for the second part, of course.
The evidence is how he is behaving with ever increasing aggression and decreasing rationality. Constantly criticising others for not championing his cause, whilst he ignores hundreds of others which are equally valid.

Everyone wearing ‘End Racism’ T-shirts? Not Lewis, he has to be different and wear one which specifically excludes everyone except black victims of racism. He has to be the one seen hanging out with Justin Beiber, or Neymar, or skiing with Lindsey Vonn, or rapping with Christina Aguillera. Or there was that GP when he said, "yeah, I was just thinking about Muhammad Ali the whole race."

I used to really like him at McLaren, I was going mental when, "is that Glock?!" Happened but these days I just can’t stand him as an individual. He’s a self obsessed a*se-hat who will jump on any bandwagon which promotes Lewis Hamilton the brand.
Why do you have such strong opinion? You could say the same about Madonna, Lady Gaga, Mohamed Ali, Christiano Ronaldo, Serena Williams or David Beckham when you are top of the pile and have the money that goes with it it almost inevitable isn't it?

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:23 pm
by Asphalt_World
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:12 pm
JN23 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:57 pm
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:52 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:05 pm
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:53 pm
Lewis doesn’t have any evidence, he’s just going with a bunch of press stories and social media rumours. If anything he’s just doing damage as lawyers will use stunts like this as evidence that the media is prejudicial and may get any case thrown out.

Let’s be honest though, what all this is really about is him. What he can be seen to be doing in the press.
You claim Lewis has no evidence and is just going on about things he's read in the media. You then claim, I guess without any evidence, that he's just doing this for himself.

If you believe the first part of what you wrote, you may want to rethink the second part. Unless you have evidence for the second part, of course.
The evidence is how he is behaving with ever increasing aggression and decreasing rationality. Constantly criticising others for not championing his cause, whilst he ignores hundreds of others which are equally valid.

Everyone wearing ‘End Racism’ T-shirts? Not Lewis, he has to be different and wear one which specifically includes everyone except black victims of racism. He has to be the one seen hanging out with Justin Beiber, or Neymar, or skiing with Lindsey Vonn, or rapping with Christina Aguillera. Or there was that GP when he said, "yeah, I was just thinking about Muhammad Ali the whole race."

I used to really like him at McLaren, I was going mental when, "is that Glock?!" Happened but these days I just can’t stand him as an individual. He’s a self obsessed a*se-hat who will jump on any bandwagon which promotes Lewis Hamilton the brand.
What’s up with hanging out with Justin Beiber, Neymar/the others you mention if that’s what LH/those people want to do?

I’m sure you hang out with whoever you want to, like I do, like Lewis Hamilton can.
So you think it’s a coincidence that he so often hangs out with the most famous people he can tag in his Instagram story.
I don't follow Hamiton on Instagram, but I just checked his account. I had to go back 45 posts to find a picture of him with anyone famous, aside from other F1 drivers, and that was Hanz Zimmer, a composer of film themes I believe. Post 51 was Mandela, paying tribute to him on what would have been his birthday.

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:27 pm
by Banana Man
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:15 pm
So, what's you're answer to reduce racism (because I can't see it ever going) if it's not high profile people to campaign.
You’re right in saying that it’s never going to go. We are just too primitive and flawed as a species for that ever to happen. You can however make steps to reduce it.

To put it simply, the best way to fight racism is to make the colour of the skin the least interesting part of your person. Ironically Lewis was doing this before by winning and keeping his mouth shut. Yes, you will be abused by some but you will be respected by a lot more for what you achieve.

It’s a slow process and it can’t be achieved in a few weeks with T-shirts. It requires the tackling of social issues. America needs to bring in some serious gun control but they won’t do this and nothing will change. Blacks will continue to shoot whites, whites will shoot blacks, Hispanics will shoot whites, blacks will shoot Hispanics, blacks will shoot other blacks, whites will shoot Hispanics etc. Etc. And in the middle of it all is an increasingly paranoid police force who have to treat everyone they meet as a potential murderer. Incidents like Floyd and Taylor will continue to happen (plenty of police will be murdered on duty, not that Lewis ever mentions them) and the whole sh*t storm will continue indefinitely.

The only way real change will come is by keeping young children in schools. Educated them out of poverty, keep them out of gangs, get them into jobs, don’t be a stereotype and eventually each generation will do a little better than the last.

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:35 pm
by JN23
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:12 pm
JN23 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:57 pm
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:52 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:05 pm
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:53 pm
Lewis doesn’t have any evidence, he’s just going with a bunch of press stories and social media rumours. If anything he’s just doing damage as lawyers will use stunts like this as evidence that the media is prejudicial and may get any case thrown out.

Let’s be honest though, what all this is really about is him. What he can be seen to be doing in the press.
You claim Lewis has no evidence and is just going on about things he's read in the media. You then claim, I guess without any evidence, that he's just doing this for himself.

If you believe the first part of what you wrote, you may want to rethink the second part. Unless you have evidence for the second part, of course.
The evidence is how he is behaving with ever increasing aggression and decreasing rationality. Constantly criticising others for not championing his cause, whilst he ignores hundreds of others which are equally valid.

Everyone wearing ‘End Racism’ T-shirts? Not Lewis, he has to be different and wear one which specifically includes everyone except black victims of racism. He has to be the one seen hanging out with Justin Beiber, or Neymar, or skiing with Lindsey Vonn, or rapping with Christina Aguillera. Or there was that GP when he said, "yeah, I was just thinking about Muhammad Ali the whole race."

I used to really like him at McLaren, I was going mental when, "is that Glock?!" Happened but these days I just can’t stand him as an individual. He’s a self obsessed a*se-hat who will jump on any bandwagon which promotes Lewis Hamilton the brand.
What’s up with hanging out with Justin Beiber, Neymar/the others you mention if that’s what LH/those people want to do?

I’m sure you hang out with whoever you want to, like I do, like Lewis Hamilton can.
So you think it’s a coincidence that he so often hangs out with the most famous people he can tag in his Instagram story.
He's hanging out with people he likes, not sure what the coincidence is here.

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:37 pm
by Banana Man
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:16 pm

Are you really singling LH out as the main celebrity who posts things on Instagram with other celebrities? Celebrities get invited to events with other celebrities. They become friends. It's hardly a shock.
The main celebrity? No. The main racing driver? Yes.

I’m not singling him out, there are many Hollywood celebs, politicians and others with this nauseating need to be seen with other famous people. However, it’s an F1 forum so...

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:46 pm
by Asphalt_World
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:37 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:16 pm

Are you really singling LH out as the main celebrity who posts things on Instagram with other celebrities? Celebrities get invited to events with other celebrities. They become friends. It's hardly a shock.
The main celebrity? No. The main racing driver? Yes.

I’m not singling him out, there are many Hollywood celebs, politicians and others with this nauseating need to be seen with other famous people. However, it’s an F1 forum so...
Your problem is, as I wrote above, he doesn't often seem to post the things you are claiming he does. You have to admit, that's quite a big hole in your argument.

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:52 pm
by Banana Man
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:46 pm
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:37 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:16 pm

Are you really singling LH out as the main celebrity who posts things on Instagram with other celebrities? Celebrities get invited to events with other celebrities. They become friends. It's hardly a shock.
The main celebrity? No. The main racing driver? Yes.

I’m not singling him out, there are many Hollywood celebs, politicians and others with this nauseating need to be seen with other famous people. However, it’s an F1 forum so...
Your problem is, as I wrote above, he doesn't often seem to post the things you are claiming he does. You have to admit, that's quite a big hole in your argument.
I stopped following him a while ago, so I’ll take your word for it but I’ve seen enough photos of him hanging around with the most famous celebs in their fields to see a pattern emerging.

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:57 pm
by Asphalt_World
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:52 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:46 pm
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:37 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:16 pm

Are you really singling LH out as the main celebrity who posts things on Instagram with other celebrities? Celebrities get invited to events with other celebrities. They become friends. It's hardly a shock.
The main celebrity? No. The main racing driver? Yes.

I’m not singling him out, there are many Hollywood celebs, politicians and others with this nauseating need to be seen with other famous people. However, it’s an F1 forum so...
Your problem is, as I wrote above, he doesn't often seem to post the things you are claiming he does. You have to admit, that's quite a big hole in your argument.
I stopped following him a while ago, so I’ll take your word for it but I’ve seen enough photos of him hanging around with the most famous celebs in their fields to see a pattern emerging.
Please please tell me what the pattern is that's emerging. Is it having pictures taken to go on Instagram?

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:02 pm
by BMWSauber84
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:52 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:46 pm
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:37 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:16 pm

Are you really singling LH out as the main celebrity who posts things on Instagram with other celebrities? Celebrities get invited to events with other celebrities. They become friends. It's hardly a shock.
The main celebrity? No. The main racing driver? Yes.

I’m not singling him out, there are many Hollywood celebs, politicians and others with this nauseating need to be seen with other famous people. However, it’s an F1 forum so...
Your problem is, as I wrote above, he doesn't often seem to post the things you are claiming he does. You have to admit, that's quite a big hole in your argument.
I stopped following him a while ago, so I’ll take your word for it but I’ve seen enough photos of him hanging around with the most famous celebs in their fields to see a pattern emerging.
Celebrity in 'taking photos with other celebrities' shocker. More on page 4. Lewis Hamilton has a variety of business interests, so it only makes sense that he takes photos with other famous people to help promote said brands.

If you look at the Instagram pages of almost any of the current highest profile sports stars on the planet, there will be a lot of photos with famous people. The anti racism campaigning clearly isn't part of that self promotion.

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:13 pm
by BMWSauber84
I'm going to take a wild guess that the most vocal 'celebrity' critics are Jim Davidson, and the bloke from that inspector Morse spinoff.

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:37 pm
by Banana Man
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:02 pm
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:52 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:46 pm
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:37 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:16 pm

Are you really singling LH out as the main celebrity who posts things on Instagram with other celebrities? Celebrities get invited to events with other celebrities. They become friends. It's hardly a shock.
The main celebrity? No. The main racing driver? Yes.

I’m not singling him out, there are many Hollywood celebs, politicians and others with this nauseating need to be seen with other famous people. However, it’s an F1 forum so...
Your problem is, as I wrote above, he doesn't often seem to post the things you are claiming he does. You have to admit, that's quite a big hole in your argument.
I stopped following him a while ago, so I’ll take your word for it but I’ve seen enough photos of him hanging around with the most famous celebs in their fields to see a pattern emerging.
Celebrity in 'taking photos with other celebrities' shocker. More on page 4. Lewis Hamilton has a variety of business interests, so it only makes sense that he takes photos with other famous people to help promote said brands.

If you look at the Instagram pages of almost any of the current highest profile sports stars on the planet, there will be a lot of photos with famous people. The anti racism campaigning clearly isn't part of that self promotion.
Weird, I can’t remember any other driver in my lifetime hanging out with such a wide collection of celebrities quite so regularly. Anyway, we’re drifting off topic, if you think it’s just par for the course then so be it.

His T-shirt today was rash and prejudicial to any trial that may or may not occur regarding the death of Taylor. He has no evidence or need to stick his nose in. Innocent people could get killed by this, all he is doing is stirring up anti-police rhetoric.

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:31 pm
by BMWSauber84
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:37 pm
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:02 pm
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:52 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:46 pm
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:37 pm


The main celebrity? No. The main racing driver? Yes.

I’m not singling him out, there are many Hollywood celebs, politicians and others with this nauseating need to be seen with other famous people. However, it’s an F1 forum so...
Your problem is, as I wrote above, he doesn't often seem to post the things you are claiming he does. You have to admit, that's quite a big hole in your argument.
I stopped following him a while ago, so I’ll take your word for it but I’ve seen enough photos of him hanging around with the most famous celebs in their fields to see a pattern emerging.
Celebrity in 'taking photos with other celebrities' shocker. More on page 4. Lewis Hamilton has a variety of business interests, so it only makes sense that he takes photos with other famous people to help promote said brands.

If you look at the Instagram pages of almost any of the current highest profile sports stars on the planet, there will be a lot of photos with famous people. The anti racism campaigning clearly isn't part of that self promotion.
Weird, I can’t remember any other driver in my lifetime hanging out with such a wide collection of celebrities quite so regularly. Anyway, we’re drifting off topic, if you think it’s just par for the course then so be it.

His T-shirt today was rash and prejudicial to any trial that may or may not occur regarding the death of Taylor. He has no evidence or need to stick his nose in. Innocent people could get killed by this, all he is doing is stirring up anti-police rhetoric.
There hasn't really been another Formula one driver in your lifetime that has that level of fame that has gone beyond their sport. In the wider sporting world, it is not unusual for extremely high profile sports stars to hob nob with other famous people. Think Tiger Woods, Roger Federer, etc.

There hasn't even been an arrest yet let alone a trial. Tweets calling for the arrest of the police officers who killed Breonna Taylor have garnered hundreds of thousands of likes and retweets. Many extremely high profile American figures have called for these arrests. Lewis Hamilton wearing a t-shirt about it isn't going to prejudice a trial any more than those.

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:11 pm
by Banana Man
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:31 pm
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:37 pm
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:02 pm
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:52 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:46 pm


Your problem is, as I wrote above, he doesn't often seem to post the things you are claiming he does. You have to admit, that's quite a big hole in your argument.
I stopped following him a while ago, so I’ll take your word for it but I’ve seen enough photos of him hanging around with the most famous celebs in their fields to see a pattern emerging.
Celebrity in 'taking photos with other celebrities' shocker. More on page 4. Lewis Hamilton has a variety of business interests, so it only makes sense that he takes photos with other famous people to help promote said brands.

If you look at the Instagram pages of almost any of the current highest profile sports stars on the planet, there will be a lot of photos with famous people. The anti racism campaigning clearly isn't part of that self promotion.
Weird, I can’t remember any other driver in my lifetime hanging out with such a wide collection of celebrities quite so regularly. Anyway, we’re drifting off topic, if you think it’s just par for the course then so be it.

His T-shirt today was rash and prejudicial to any trial that may or may not occur regarding the death of Taylor. He has no evidence or need to stick his nose in. Innocent people could get killed by this, all he is doing is stirring up anti-police rhetoric.
There hasn't really been another Formula one driver in your lifetime that has that level of fame that has gone beyond their sport. In the wider sporting world, it is not unusual for extremely high profile sports stars to hob nob with other famous people. Think Tiger Woods, Roger Federer, etc.

There hasn't even been an arrest yet let alone a trial. Tweets calling for the arrest of the police officers who killed Breonna Taylor have garnered hundreds of thousands of likes and retweets. Many extremely high profile American figures have called for these arrests. Lewis Hamilton wearing a t-shirt about it isn't going to prejudice a trial any more than those.
Like I said, Lewis’ celebrity friends are a separate issue and I see little value in discussing it further.

You’re quite right in the second paragraph, there are a high number of high profile figures calling for their arrest and each one makes it easier for the officers’ lawyers to argue that it’s impossible for them to get a fair trial.

In other news, two police officers were ambushed and put in hospital by an African American man with a gun today in a seemingly unprovoked attack. Incidents like this are only going to increase the more celebrities and others continue to fan the flames.

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:42 am
by Alienturnedhuman
Jezza13 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:14 pm
Well you certainly can't say he's wasting an opportunity to champion his cause ( If it is indeed the real Lewis Hamilton)

https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FEhym_9PW ... ame%3Dorig

He needs to be careful criticizing other teams for, as he perceives them, their social shortcomings.

I do wonder how many black Italians of suitable age, qualifications & aptitude are sitting around coffee shops in Rome or Venice cursing the white supremacy tendencies of Italy's favorite team that has so cruelly denied them the opportunity to fulfill their life long dream. My guess would be it'd be closer to 0 than it would 5.

Even if Ferrari wanted to employ a black person, it's not like there'd be a long list of suitable candidates to choose from would there?
We are really lucky that we live in a world where Photoshop is only something that exists in science fiction movies.

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:22 am
by Jezza13
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:42 am
Jezza13 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:14 pm
Well you certainly can't say he's wasting an opportunity to champion his cause ( If it is indeed the real Lewis Hamilton)

https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FEhym_9PW ... ame%3Dorig

He needs to be careful criticizing other teams for, as he perceives them, their social shortcomings.

I do wonder how many black Italians of suitable age, qualifications & aptitude are sitting around coffee shops in Rome or Venice cursing the white supremacy tendencies of Italy's favorite team that has so cruelly denied them the opportunity to fulfill their life long dream. My guess would be it'd be closer to 0 than it would 5.

Even if Ferrari wanted to employ a black person, it's not like there'd be a long list of suitable candidates to choose from would there?
We are really lucky that we live in a world where Photoshop is only something that exists in science fiction movies.
What's been photo shopped ATH? Pretty sure the pic's not doctored.

I don't do any social media stuff so I honestly wouldn't know what site it is, if the whole things a proper screen shot or complete BS or even if Hamilton did place that post there if it is a legit screenshot , hence my " If it is indeed the real Lewis Hamilton" comment.

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:39 am
by Alienturnedhuman
Jezza13 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:22 am
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:42 am
Jezza13 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:14 pm
Well you certainly can't say he's wasting an opportunity to champion his cause ( If it is indeed the real Lewis Hamilton)

https://nitter.net/pic/media%2FEhym_9PW ... ame%3Dorig

He needs to be careful criticizing other teams for, as he perceives them, their social shortcomings.

I do wonder how many black Italians of suitable age, qualifications & aptitude are sitting around coffee shops in Rome or Venice cursing the white supremacy tendencies of Italy's favorite team that has so cruelly denied them the opportunity to fulfill their life long dream. My guess would be it'd be closer to 0 than it would 5.

Even if Ferrari wanted to employ a black person, it's not like there'd be a long list of suitable candidates to choose from would there?
We are really lucky that we live in a world where Photoshop is only something that exists in science fiction movies.
What's been photo shopped ATH? Pretty sure the pic's not doctored.

I don't do any social media stuff so I honestly wouldn't know what site it is, if the whole things a proper screen shot or complete BS or even if Hamilton did place that post there if it is a legit screenshot , hence my " If it is indeed the real Lewis Hamilton" comment.
I'm not accusing you of doctoring the photograph. It's from Instragram - yet the only evidence of it is solely this screenshot or people on the instagram feed saying "did you see the comment Hamilton posted before he deleted it"

It doesn't even require photoshop to create, I create a screenshot of any major social media site within seconds that would be identical to if it was real, it's just a case of changing the values in the web browser using the web inspector.

If it was real there would be far more than one screenshot of it. Every post the official F1 account makes gets north of 250,000 engagements, so many eyes would have seen it even if Hamilton retracted it moments after posting it, so many more screenshots would exist.

But they don't. The only people talking about it are people who have seen that one screenshot (and in most cases reposting it), and there is no credible source for it being legit.

Unless that changes and some actual evidence emerges that Hamilton did post this then it's just another case of distraction politics. It's little surprise this happened after the T-shirt incident as an attempt to rile up F1 fans by throwing mud on the prestige of Ferrari's celebration event. It's not even written in Hamilton's usual writing style, but rather sounds like someone trying to write a condescending PC sounding caricature of it, designed to wind people up.

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:55 am
by Banana Man
Just looking on Twitter this morning and Lewis has explicitly stated that, "Taylor was murdered by Police."

You just can’t be posting that. Other UK residents may remember the murder of Jo Yates in Bristol about 10 years ago, where the press initially acted as judge, jury and executioner for the wrong man, who turned out to be innocent. Not only did he sue several publications for large sums of money but they were found to be in contempt of court for the claims they were making.

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:07 am
by BMWSauber84
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:11 pm
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:31 pm
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:37 pm
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:02 pm
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:52 pm


I stopped following him a while ago, so I’ll take your word for it but I’ve seen enough photos of him hanging around with the most famous celebs in their fields to see a pattern emerging.
Celebrity in 'taking photos with other celebrities' shocker. More on page 4. Lewis Hamilton has a variety of business interests, so it only makes sense that he takes photos with other famous people to help promote said brands.

If you look at the Instagram pages of almost any of the current highest profile sports stars on the planet, there will be a lot of photos with famous people. The anti racism campaigning clearly isn't part of that self promotion.
Weird, I can’t remember any other driver in my lifetime hanging out with such a wide collection of celebrities quite so regularly. Anyway, we’re drifting off topic, if you think it’s just par for the course then so be it.

His T-shirt today was rash and prejudicial to any trial that may or may not occur regarding the death of Taylor. He has no evidence or need to stick his nose in. Innocent people could get killed by this, all he is doing is stirring up anti-police rhetoric.
There hasn't really been another Formula one driver in your lifetime that has that level of fame that has gone beyond their sport. In the wider sporting world, it is not unusual for extremely high profile sports stars to hob nob with other famous people. Think Tiger Woods, Roger Federer, etc.

There hasn't even been an arrest yet let alone a trial. Tweets calling for the arrest of the police officers who killed Breonna Taylor have garnered hundreds of thousands of likes and retweets. Many extremely high profile American figures have called for these arrests. Lewis Hamilton wearing a t-shirt about it isn't going to prejudice a trial any more than those.
Like I said, Lewis’ celebrity friends are a separate issue and I see little value in discussing it further.

You’re quite right in the second paragraph, there are a high number of high profile figures calling for their arrest and each one makes it easier for the officers’ lawyers to argue that it’s impossible for them to get a fair trial.

In other news, two police officers were ambushed and put in hospital by an African American man with a gun today in a seemingly unprovoked attack. Incidents like this are only going to increase the more celebrities and others continue to fan the flames.
And yet you made such a big deal over these celebrity friends it in so many posts. It just struck me as a bit of a weird thing to get so worked up about.

It's a bit intellectually dishonest to conflate an attack on police officers with celebrity support of the BLM issue. He's calling for the officers responsible for what he feels is the murder of the woman in question to be arrested, not attacked or killed. Explicit calls for violence against police officers of course would be unacceptable and unwise.

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:07 pm
by Banana Man
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:07 am
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:11 pm
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:31 pm
Banana Man wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:37 pm
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:02 pm


Celebrity in 'taking photos with other celebrities' shocker. More on page 4. Lewis Hamilton has a variety of business interests, so it only makes sense that he takes photos with other famous people to help promote said brands.

If you look at the Instagram pages of almost any of the current highest profile sports stars on the planet, there will be a lot of photos with famous people. The anti racism campaigning clearly isn't part of that self promotion.
Weird, I can’t remember any other driver in my lifetime hanging out with such a wide collection of celebrities quite so regularly. Anyway, we’re drifting off topic, if you think it’s just par for the course then so be it.

His T-shirt today was rash and prejudicial to any trial that may or may not occur regarding the death of Taylor. He has no evidence or need to stick his nose in. Innocent people could get killed by this, all he is doing is stirring up anti-police rhetoric.
There hasn't really been another Formula one driver in your lifetime that has that level of fame that has gone beyond their sport. In the wider sporting world, it is not unusual for extremely high profile sports stars to hob nob with other famous people. Think Tiger Woods, Roger Federer, etc.

There hasn't even been an arrest yet let alone a trial. Tweets calling for the arrest of the police officers who killed Breonna Taylor have garnered hundreds of thousands of likes and retweets. Many extremely high profile American figures have called for these arrests. Lewis Hamilton wearing a t-shirt about it isn't going to prejudice a trial any more than those.
Like I said, Lewis’ celebrity friends are a separate issue and I see little value in discussing it further.

You’re quite right in the second paragraph, there are a high number of high profile figures calling for their arrest and each one makes it easier for the officers’ lawyers to argue that it’s impossible for them to get a fair trial.

In other news, two police officers were ambushed and put in hospital by an African American man with a gun today in a seemingly unprovoked attack. Incidents like this are only going to increase the more celebrities and others continue to fan the flames.
And yet you made such a big deal over these celebrity friends it in so many posts. It just struck me as a bit of a weird thing to get so worked up about.

It's a bit intellectually dishonest to conflate an attack on police officers with celebrity support of the BLM issue. He's calling for the officers responsible for what he feels is the murder of the woman in question to be arrested, not attacked or killed. Explicit calls for violence against police officers of course would be unacceptable and unwise.
I assure you that if I was, "so worked up," it was entirely within your mind. I haven’t used any angry or aggressive language, I was simply reaffirming my viewpoint when it was challenged. I regard him as a social climber, which is a trait I find off putting in any celebrity, regardless of their field or race.

It’s not dishonest, the two go hand in hand, whether you like it or not. Lewis’ steadfast public statements of black people being murdered by police, without a mention of any sort of context and the other issues involved are only going to rile up more hatred, which in turn leads to equal and opposite reactions.

Also, he’s not calling for them to be arrested, It’s more than that. He has already conclusively affirmed their guilt by calling them murderers.

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:46 pm
by DeadKenny
Banana Man wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:55 am
Just looking on Twitter this morning and Lewis has explicitly stated that, "Taylor was murdered by Police."

You just can’t be posting that. Other UK residents may remember the murder of Jo Yates in Bristol about 10 years ago, where the press initially acted as judge, jury and executioner for the wrong man, who turned out to be innocent. Not only did he sue several publications for large sums of money but they were found to be in contempt of court for the claims they were making.
Event happened in different country so can never be contempt of court, and he has the right to say what he thinks, (just like all the lies the racists have said for many years about minorities in this country)
but just for a moment, let me ask, if police came into your house with guns, by complete mistake, acted like the people in the house where criminals and then shot someone 8 times, , , , what would you call it if your wife, mother or sister was the dead one ?

a mistake, a big snafoo, a tragedy, or maybe you would call it what it sounds like , , Murder ?

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:12 pm
by Banana Man
DeadKenny wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:46 pm
Banana Man wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:55 am
Just looking on Twitter this morning and Lewis has explicitly stated that, "Taylor was murdered by Police."

You just can’t be posting that. Other UK residents may remember the murder of Jo Yates in Bristol about 10 years ago, where the press initially acted as judge, jury and executioner for the wrong man, who turned out to be innocent. Not only did he sue several publications for large sums of money but they were found to be in contempt of court for the claims they were making.
Event happened in different country so can never be contempt of court, and he has the right to say what he thinks, (just like all the lies the racists have said for many years about minorities in this country)
but just for a moment, let me ask, if police came into your house with guns, by complete mistake, acted like the people in the house where criminals and then shot someone 8 times, , , , what would you call it if your wife, mother or sister was the dead one ?

a mistake, a big snafoo, a tragedy, or maybe you would call it what it sounds like , , Murder ?
Without knowing which lies and minorities you’re specifically referring too, I’d say they don’t have the right to ‘say what they think‘ if it involves spreading racial hatred. In short, two wrongs don’t make a right. Whether he can legally be found in contempt of court or not is scarcely relevant, the principle still stands.

That’s not a like for like comparison. This isn’t Lewis’ house/wife/sister. A better question would be - if the Police raided the home of some random white guy 5,000 miles away and killed his girlfriend in a shootout, what would I call it? My answer to that would be a serious incident worthy of investigation, which I wouldn’t want to pass judgement on personally without knowing any facts other than what I’d seen in the media.

Maybe this Policeman woke up one morning and said, "yeah, let’s go out and kill some blacks!" Or maybe he was at his wits end having spent a career having guns drawn on him by dangerous criminals and overreacted to what he perceived to be a dangerous situation. I don’t know and nor shall I judge.

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:16 pm
by DeadKenny
Banana Man wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:12 pm
DeadKenny wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:46 pm
Banana Man wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:55 am
Just looking on Twitter this morning and Lewis has explicitly stated that, "Taylor was murdered by Police."

You just can’t be posting that. Other UK residents may remember the murder of Jo Yates in Bristol about 10 years ago, where the press initially acted as judge, jury and executioner for the wrong man, who turned out to be innocent. Not only did he sue several publications for large sums of money but they were found to be in contempt of court for the claims they were making.
Event happened in different country so can never be contempt of court, and he has the right to say what he thinks, (just like all the lies the racists have said for many years about minorities in this country)
but just for a moment, let me ask, if police came into your house with guns, by complete mistake, acted like the people in the house where criminals and then shot someone 8 times, , , , what would you call it if your wife, mother or sister was the dead one ?

a mistake, a big snafoo, a tragedy, or maybe you would call it what it sounds like , , Murder ?
Without knowing which lies and minorities you’re specifically referring too, I’d say they don’t have the right to ‘say what they think‘ if it involves spreading racial hatred. In short, two wrongs don’t make a right. Whether he can legally be found in contempt of court or not is scarcely relevant, the principle still stands.

That’s not a like for like comparison. This isn’t Lewis’ house/wife/sister. A better question would be - if the Police raided the home of some random white guy 5,000 miles away and killed his girlfriend in a shootout, what would I call it? My answer to that would be a serious incident worthy of investigation, which I wouldn’t want to pass judgement on personally without knowing any facts other than what I’d seen in the media.

Maybe this Policeman woke up one morning and said, "yeah, let’s go out and kill some blacks!" Or maybe he was at his wits end having spent a career having guns drawn on him by dangerous criminals and overreacted to what he perceived to be a dangerous situation. I don’t know and nor shall I judge.
Actually if you wish to use your example it would have to be "police raiding 1000's of white guys houses, and killing hundreds of white guys" you do understand that this wasn't an isolated incident ?

but your attitude in trying to overplay everything Lewis says, and omitting any info that says so much more about this situation, tends to suggest which side of the debate you stand on :(

and by the way, Lewis didn't state the ethnicity of the cops, just that they killed a black girl, so why do you suggest that he is spreading racial hatred ?

Sounds like he just wants the cops to be bound by the laws they have to abide by, in the same way that they want us to obey those we are bound by ? can you explain why that is wrong ?

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:19 pm
by Banana Man
Then I would have to take each individual case by it’s own evidence, rather than simply looking at it as ‘cop kills black man/white man’. It could well be that many of the incidents you refer to involved justifiable killings, where police raided the home of a drug dealer who shot first or any number of other scenarios.

I’m not overplaying anything, Lewis is calling people murderers on social media. That is a very strong statement he has no right making and you’re language shows exactly what is wrong with the BLM debate. You have to turn it into who’s on who’s side. I abhor racism and those who practice it however I’m also no fan of the rudeness, hypocrisy and narcissism coming from Lewis. They’re two separate issues and I’m not on ‘the other side’ just because I dislike some of his views and gestures.

I didn’t suggest he was spreading racial hatred, read it again. I was responding to your comment about racists being ‘allowed’ to spread lies about ethnic minorities, which I was equating to racial hatred.

I reject your last statement as a straw man. That’s not what’s being discussed here. Lewis has clearly has no impartial viewpoint on justice being served and the law being followed, to him it’s a witch hunt. The Police in the Taylor case my well be guilty of something but Lewis has already handed out a guilty murder conviction on the Internet, without even allowing a legal defence to be heard.

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:49 pm
by Black_Flag_11
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hami ... o/4875139/
The FIA is looking into whether or not Lewis Hamilton broke any rules by wearing a T-shirt at the Tuscan Grand Prix that highlighted police brutality.
It will be interesting to see where this goes, I feel the FIA may draw the line on this one, on the basis of it being political*, to protect themselves in future. If they let it go then what's to stop, for example, a driver wearing a shirt condemning the treatment of the Uighur's on the podium in China, at that point it could start costing the sport money, and they aren't going to let that happen. It was always going to happen eventually that the sport was going to need to walk a tightrope and face backlash given some of the countries hosting races and funding teams IMO.

As for the shirt itself, I personally see no issue with it, from what I've heard of the case I do think its worthy of investigation. Lewis would do well to avoid calling it murder though, they killed her sure, but murder is for the courts to decide.

* This one does step over the line of being political IMO (definition: relating to the government or public affairs of a country.) since it is calling for the government of another country to act in a specific way on a particular issue.

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:29 am
by LBET
Readers Digest: Sorry for the long response. You can bypass my life story and pico-whinge on BLM and just jump to the 3 links below.

Hi everyone. I love the spirited discussion and frank discussion of views on racism and associated stuff here in this thread. As a 60 year old black man living in jolly old Canada I feel I've been fortunate. Educated in electrical engineering, working in the mobile phone and computing industry for companies like Openwave, Dow Jones, Research in Motion and Rogers Communications I'm a problem solver and negotiator by nature. When I get pulled over for a traffic violation by the cops I do 3 things immediately. Get my paperwork, roll down all the car windows and greet the officer in a congenial manner and then defend myself vigourously in court. It's simply my nature to be transparent and aware of my rights as a Canadian. Other's, however are not so fortunate; not just black folks either. I can't point to countless cases of the sad, continuous and ongoing problem of the abuse of Native Canadians for example. But for the grace of God go we all no?

Having said that, I have some deep philosophical issues with BLM as I don't feel that they represent me as a black man or a reasonable person. Clearly their marketing plan is much more effective than any plans they might have to drive meaningful lasting change in the world and especially the black community. This is evidenced by the NBA and FIA somewhat blindly supporting this admittedly marxist organization that operates neither as a charity or a not-for-profit and seems to have an agenda that is self serving and enriching. This is especially true in their lack of efforts to elevate the circumstances for blacks within the black community. (Sigh)

Sure, systemic racism, both overt and covert, has been evidenced and acknowledged in the Greater Toronto Area where I live, but the fire and unrest that seems to unavoidably follow BLM activities is a sad and avoidable testament to what should be a noble effort and serves NOT to highlight but indeed distract from the problems we all should be looking to resolve (or at least temper).

I'm privilege to know a young black man by the name of Jamil Jivani who been attacked by the press and other black folks for speaking in opposition to about BLM. I would urge you to read both of these articles and, in doing so, understand that like the rest of the world, black people are not one monolithic group with converged and singular point of view. Instead we, like you, are made up of individuals with a diverse set of viewpoints and experiences...and a few shared ones as well. I think Mr. Jivani sums it up quite well the the link I've entitled "The Rebuttal". I would urge you all to read "The Argument" first to see how deeply some members of the black community, support by the reactionary media, and yes certain celebs and sports organizations, have been "convinced" that the BLM marketing plan is the best way forward for equality. It's unfortunate that certain truths, that I hold dearly, are not self evident.

The Argument
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/ ... ing-mixed/

The Rebuttal
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jamil- ... -man-to-be

The Lament
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rwwd3GRL234

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:02 am
by DeadKenny
Banana Man wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:19 pm

I reject your last statement as a straw man. That’s not what’s being discussed here. Lewis has clearly has no impartial viewpoint on justice being served and the law being followed, to him it’s a witch hunt. The Police in the Taylor case my well be guilty of something but Lewis has already handed out a guilty murder conviction on the Internet, without even allowing a legal defence to be heard.
Then can you name me just one case of a murder in the media with a non-policeman, that you have protected the "presumed innocent" argument ?

what about Carole Baskin, people calling her a murderer for killing her husband, calling for her to be locked up, are you protecting her with the same vigour you are with this case ?

what about OJ, did you tell everyone calling him a murderer to have "impartial viewpoint on justice being served and the law being followed"

Odd that with a black victim and white shooters that you seem right on it ?


I am sick of the softly softly approach when it is police, they should be held to a higher standard and if they cannot obey the law, they should be prosecuted more strongly.
Or they should get a job where they don't get to endanger life without consequence.

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:24 pm
by Banana Man
Okay, you're clearly missing the point on most of my arguments and seem to be bent on making this out to be me being racist. I've made my point to anyone who is willing to listen and your replies are becoming tiresome, so I'll make this my last post on the matter.

Your first question is stupid. It's absurd that you think I can't name one when my answer is all of them, whether they turned out to be guilty or not. I didn't presume Ian Huntley, Amanda Knox, the various suspects in the McCann disappearance nor any black people accused of a crime, such as Conrad Murray or Jackson himself when he was accused of child sex offenses, to be guilty until such a verdict was read out.

I can't answer the OJ question as I was 5 years old when it happened. If I was old enough to understand, he'd be no different to those I mentioned in the previous paragraph, nor anyone else.

Your next line is just a petulant, baseless insult I have no interest in responding to.

You say you're 'sick of the softly softly approach', well that's no justification at all for handing out vigilante justice without trial. The Police are held to a much higher standard. The fact that they have to Police some of the most deprived areas in the country, where everyone is armed up to the teeth with automatic weapons must take an incredible mental strain and isn't something I could do for £1m. No I'm not defending any unlawful killings but they're on the receiving end of just as many themselves and 99% of them (I know a couple of British Police personally) are just trying to earn an honest living and protect their community.

Have a nice day.

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:34 pm
by kleefton
While I believe that those cops that killed Breanna Taylor should go to jail, they did not commit murder. Murder by definition has to be a pre meditated killing. There is nothing to suggest that those cops wanted or planned to kill Breanna Taylor. They acted irresponsibly, just firing random shots in retaliation to being shot at by Breanna's ex boyfriend. They showed no regard for innocent bystandards by doing that. That is the problem with cops nowadays, a guy running away from them gets 7 shots in the back, another one that is fleeing with a tazer gets shot dead in the back. And this has happened only this summer. I can probably give 100 more examples of similar incidents over the last 20 years or so and it often involves a black person being shot. But this is why substantial police reform is needed and the overall message of BLM needs to be heard. I wish Lewis chose a different word on his t-shirt though, because even if those cops get convicted and go to jail, it won't be because of murder.

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:16 pm
by Black_Flag_11
kleefton wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:34 pm
While I believe that those cops that killed Breanna Taylor should go to jail, they did not commit murder. Murder by definition has to be a pre meditated killing. There is nothing to suggest that those cops wanted or planned to kill Breanna Taylor. They acted irresponsibly, just firing random shots in retaliation to being shot at by Breanna's ex boyfriend. They showed no regard for innocent bystandards by doing that. That is the problem with cops nowadays, a guy running away from them gets 7 shots in the back, another one that is fleeing with a tazer gets shot dead in the back. And this has happened only this summer. I can probably give 100 more examples of similar incidents over the last 20 years or so and it often involves a black person being shot. But this is why substantial police reform is needed and the overall message of BLM needs to be heard. I wish Lewis chose a different word on his t-shirt though, because even if those cops get convicted and go to jail, it won't be because of murder.
The shirt itself doesnt day murder, unless theres something on the back I haven't seen.

The front says "Arrest the cops who killed Breonna Taylor", the references to Hamilton talking about murder were about something he posted on Instagram I believe, though I have to admit I haven't seen it myself.

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:32 pm
by Rockie
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:00 pm
Rockie wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:54 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:17 pm
If you want to know why the anti-racism message need more and more coverage, just step over to Twitter and search Lewis Hamilton. It's full of racism. Although the t-shirt worn today is no problem for me, I have no problem with people not wanting this kind of thing mixed into sport and that Lewis should find other times to spread his message. However, the amount of comments I found in a matter of about 60 seconds, that are simply racist, is incredible. These aren't people who don't like the way he's trying to spread his message. These are people who hate him because of his race and skin colour and disagree with any attempts to to ensure people of any race are treated equally.
You are just realising this, MLK they all love quoting was killed for fighting for racial equality and was the most hated man in America even with a negative approval rating.
I'm not just realising this, but pointing out how prevalent racism is. It's none stop. I'm sure some people only think it happens in a few places around the world.
I know that's why I just tend to ignore them nowadays, its so unfortunate the way some Americans see everything as political and its being exported around the world.

With so much access to information now, unfortunately the world has become a dumber place unbelievably, thereby charlatans can convince people against their own interest.

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:55 pm
by kleefton
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:16 pm
kleefton wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:34 pm
While I believe that those cops that killed Breanna Taylor should go to jail, they did not commit murder. Murder by definition has to be a pre meditated killing. There is nothing to suggest that those cops wanted or planned to kill Breanna Taylor. They acted irresponsibly, just firing random shots in retaliation to being shot at by Breanna's ex boyfriend. They showed no regard for innocent bystandards by doing that. That is the problem with cops nowadays, a guy running away from them gets 7 shots in the back, another one that is fleeing with a tazer gets shot dead in the back. And this has happened only this summer. I can probably give 100 more examples of similar incidents over the last 20 years or so and it often involves a black person being shot. But this is why substantial police reform is needed and the overall message of BLM needs to be heard. I wish Lewis chose a different word on his t-shirt though, because even if those cops get convicted and go to jail, it won't be because of murder.
The shirt itself doesnt day murder, unless theres something on the back I haven't seen.

The front says "Arrest the cops who killed Breonna Taylor", the references to Hamilton talking about murder were about something he posted on Instagram I believe, though I have to admit I haven't seen it myself.

Yeah my bad. I could have sworn the shirt said murder. But one poster claimed he posted that those cops murdered that girl. Which would be wrong if he did say that.

Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:12 am
by Siao7
LBET wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:29 am
Readers Digest: Sorry for the long response. You can bypass my life story and pico-whinge on BLM and just jump to the 3 links below.

Hi everyone. I love the spirited discussion and frank discussion of views on racism and associated stuff here in this thread. As a 60 year old black man living in jolly old Canada I feel I've been fortunate. Educated in electrical engineering, working in the mobile phone and computing industry for companies like Openwave, Dow Jones, Research in Motion and Rogers Communications I'm a problem solver and negotiator by nature. When I get pulled over for a traffic violation by the cops I do 3 things immediately. Get my paperwork, roll down all the car windows and greet the officer in a congenial manner and then defend myself vigourously in court. It's simply my nature to be transparent and aware of my rights as a Canadian. Other's, however are not so fortunate; not just black folks either. I can't point to countless cases of the sad, continuous and ongoing problem of the abuse of Native Canadians for example. But for the grace of God go we all no?

Having said that, I have some deep philosophical issues with BLM as I don't feel that they represent me as a black man or a reasonable person. Clearly their marketing plan is much more effective than any plans they might have to drive meaningful lasting change in the world and especially the black community. This is evidenced by the NBA and FIA somewhat blindly supporting this admittedly marxist organization that operates neither as a charity or a not-for-profit and seems to have an agenda that is self serving and enriching. This is especially true in their lack of efforts to elevate the circumstances for blacks within the black community. (Sigh)

Sure, systemic racism, both overt and covert, has been evidenced and acknowledged in the Greater Toronto Area where I live, but the fire and unrest that seems to unavoidably follow BLM activities is a sad and avoidable testament to what should be a noble effort and serves NOT to highlight but indeed distract from the problems we all should be looking to resolve (or at least temper).

I'm privilege to know a young black man by the name of Jamil Jivani who been attacked by the press and other black folks for speaking in opposition to about BLM. I would urge you to read both of these articles and, in doing so, understand that like the rest of the world, black people are not one monolithic group with converged and singular point of view. Instead we, like you, are made up of individuals with a diverse set of viewpoints and experiences...and a few shared ones as well. I think Mr. Jivani sums it up quite well the the link I've entitled "The Rebuttal". I would urge you all to read "The Argument" first to see how deeply some members of the black community, support by the reactionary media, and yes certain celebs and sports organizations, have been "convinced" that the BLM marketing plan is the best way forward for equality. It's unfortunate that certain truths, that I hold dearly, are not self evident.

The Argument
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/ ... ing-mixed/

The Rebuttal
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jamil- ... -man-to-be

The Lament
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rwwd3GRL234
Thank you for these, I will have a read later on after work.

F1 In trouble with Ofcom.

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:58 pm
by wire2004
The FIA need to get a grip of Lewis Hamilton.

I had made a rant about formula 1 allowing the BLM kneeling before each grand prize. And how i dont want a political statements to be made before each grand prix as I dont come to watch that when I watch my sports and when I watch my sports. It is my escape.

Fast Forward to this past sunday. And lewis Hamilton wore a t shirt over the death of the black woman in America. Brianna Taylor. Again. A political statement on the t shirt.

Well. Ofcom has rexieved 133 complaints about both skys and channel 4s coverage of the Tuscan grand prix. And why it doesnt mention precisely that the complaints are about Brianna Taylor. And the political statement that Lewia Hamilton made. It is highly likely that it is in relation to this.

I was going to make a post on Sunday. But ultimately decided against it at the time.
But I was going to say that the FIA need to get a grip of Lewis Hamilton. And yes i am a fan and have watched his work since his gp2 days in 2006. But the FIA need to make a statement of intent. That there should be no political motives behind any shirts worn.
I would even go as far as banning Hamilton from a grand prix for bringing political statements into sports if he continues to ignore the fact that political views are to remain there own and not broadcast on tv. I'm pretty sure it is in the FIA code of conduct as well.

I will finish by saying this.
Like I've said. I dont want political statements brought into my sports and I watch my sports as a means to escape the crap that's going on in not only my life. But the world in general. If only for 2 - 10 hours I watch mybsports. (the whole covid thing is a different subject all together)

Last point.
Bernie would never allow this if he was still running F1. He heavily fined Turkey for a political statement for breaching podium protocol one year and he completely removed the jerez race from formula 1 after the podium incident of 1997 at the European grand prix.

Re: F1 In trouble with Ofcom.

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:59 pm
by wire2004

Re: F1 In trouble with Ofcom.

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:10 pm
by Black_Flag_11
Ofcom has rexieved 133 complaints about both skys and channel 4s coverage of the Tuscan grand prix.
I've never understood the mentality of people who take the time to go out of their way and complain about these sorts of things.

133 people need to get a grip IMO.

Re: F1 In trouble with Ofcom.

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:13 pm
by F1 MERCENARY
LOL Good luck with that. The WORLD STAGE today is such that Sports ARE VEHICLES FOR MAKING POLITICAL STATEMENTS and sorry to burst your bubble, but there is no way ANYONE has the testicular fortitude to tell a Black man in Lewis Hamilton to not voice his opinion on political issues, especially ones that involve people of color.

Furthermore, in WHAT way does Lewis using his position and global stature and reach to bring awareness to issues like these that would otherwise never be known by the masses, affect YOU or the race weekend in any way??!?!?

Simple… it doesn't.

Being Puerto Rican I am a born US Citizen yet I'm a minority and have been subject to prejudices and have had encounters with police where I was treated as less than just because I'm not white and some felt intimidated because my level of intellect was far greater than the "officers" and they felt like I was trying to belittle them because they didn't understand simple English.

So I'm sorry that you feel bothered by Lewis voicing his opinion on such a large stage, but it's thanks to athletes who have been doing this very thing for several years now that certain individuals and police have been held accountable for their actions and were brought to justice. These are highly complex times because of the struggle for those in power to hold onto it, while under constant scrutiny because the supposed "lesser" man is finally standing strong and standing tall and no longer accepting that it's their club and we aren't allowed to even buy a jacket to attend their party.

I think you're better served if you broaden your horizons and start standing WITH your fellow man so that everyone is afforded the same rights across the board and so that no one has to live with the constant fear of police simply for the color of their skin and their ethnicity. Far too often police have gotten away with literal murder, not to mention all the other crimes many officers commit simply because they feel their badge is a license to do as they please, and that needs to stop.

Re: F1 In trouble with Ofcom.

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:43 pm
by JN23
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:10 pm
Ofcom has rexieved 133 complaints about both skys and channel 4s coverage of the Tuscan grand prix.
I've never understood the mentality of people who take the time to go out of their way and complain about these sorts of things.

133 people need to get a grip IMO.
15,000 complaints about a dance on Britain’s Got Talent as well :?

Re: F1 In trouble with Ofcom.

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:53 pm
by Asphalt_World
I'm not sure 133 complaints constitutes a problem. Unless we're talking about a problem being that 133 people need to do something more important with their life.