F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

[Alienturnedhuman]

Anyone been following whats been going on on Instagram today with Hamilton and Marko? Hamilton should probably apologise.

To be clear, I am not accusing you of this (especially as you have including the word probably) - but I have seen so much outrage on Twitter who are whipping up such a frenzy about Hamilton's comment, it's as if the biggest crime from the whole George Floyd incident is Hamilton believing a widely circulated story that appeared to be sourced.

It came across my radar before Hamilton posted about it as Google Now was showing the story, I suspect that is probably where Hamilton saw it too.

I'm sure that Hamilton will apologise to Marko, if he hasn't already, but those in the public eye know this happens all the time. Just about every race a driver makes a throwaway comment about a competitor and the reporters reword it and take it out of context to try and provoke the other one. The whole F1 circus is used to this as it happens all the time. People managing to turn BLM into 'poor old Marko' (the person they usually treat as the pantomime villain of F1) just goes to show where they really stand on the issue...

It absolutely doesn't have to be a big deal but Hamilton pretty much called Marko a grade A racist and broadcasted that to his 18 million Instagram followers. In this day and age that's a really serious allegation. He needs to correct that mistake because most people who saw it will still think Marko said those words.

He appears, for some reason, to be reluctant to do that. Sometimes if you're going to be a leader you do have to own up to your mistakes.

Firstly, no he didn't call Marko a grade A racist or anything like that. What he said was:

"Helmut, it deeply saddens me that you consider fighting for equal treatment of black people and people of colour a distraction. I'm actually quote offended. A distraction for me was fans showing up in black face to taunt my family on race weekends. A distraction for me was the unnecessary and additional adversity and unfair treatment I faced as a child, teen and even now, due to the colour of my skin. I hope this speaks volumes to the few people of colour you do have on your team, about your priorities and how you view them. Wake up. This sport needs to change."

And secondly, Marko has publicly spoken about it and has said that Hamilton's reaction to the fake news was completely understandable. He puts 100% of the blame with the tweet and website that reported the tweet as a fact. He also stated he has been in contact with Hamilton and the matter is resolved.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mark ... a/4808588/

[mikeyg123]

Anyone been following whats been going on on Instagram today with Hamilton and Marko? Hamilton should probably apologise.

To be clear, I am not accusing you of this (especially as you have including the word probably) - but I have seen so much outrage on Twitter who are whipping up such a frenzy about Hamilton's comment, it's as if the biggest crime from the whole George Floyd incident is Hamilton believing a widely circulated story that appeared to be sourced.

It came across my radar before Hamilton posted about it as Google Now was showing the story, I suspect that is probably where Hamilton saw it too.

I'm sure that Hamilton will apologise to Marko, if he hasn't already, but those in the public eye know this happens all the time. Just about every race a driver makes a throwaway comment about a competitor and the reporters reword it and take it out of context to try and provoke the other one. The whole F1 circus is used to this as it happens all the time. People managing to turn BLM into 'poor old Marko' (the person they usually treat as the pantomime villain of F1) just goes to show where they really stand on the issue...

It absolutely doesn't have to be a big deal but Hamilton pretty much called Marko a grade A racist and broadcasted that to his 18 million Instagram followers. In this day and age that's a really serious allegation. He needs to correct that mistake because most people who saw it will still think Marko said those words.

He appears, for some reason, to be reluctant to do that. Sometimes if you're going to be a leader you do have to own up to your mistakes.

Firstly, no he didn't call Marko a grade A racist or anything like that. What he said was:

"Helmut, it deeply saddens me that you consider fighting for equal treatment of black people and people of colour a distraction. I'm actually quote offended. A distraction for me was fans showing up in black face to taunt my family on race weekends. A distraction for me was the unnecessary and additional adversity and unfair treatment I faced as a child, teen and even now, due to the colour of my skin. I hope this speaks volumes to the few people of colour you do have on your team, about your priorities and how you view them. Wake up. This sport needs to change."

And secondly, Marko has publicly spoken about it and has said that Hamilton's reaction to the fake news was completely understandable. He puts 100% of the blame with the tweet and website that reported the tweet as a fact. He also stated he has been in contact with Hamilton and the matter is resolved.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mark ... a/4808588/

I think that paragraph is calling Marko a racist. "I hope this speaks volumes to the few people of colour you do have on your team, about your priorities and how you view them" I know how I read that and I won't be the only one.

I know what Marko's said. My opinion hasn't changed. Hamilton would do better to correct the (understandable) mistake he made. I don't think he's done that and I think that's a shame.

As I said it's not a big deal but Hamilton made a mistake which has left people with a false impression. He should correct that.

[Siao7]

Yes, I agree with Mikey, he didn't call him racist, but painted him as one pretty well.

All in all it was a mistake, both sides have reconciled and nothing more to see really. Hamilton was swift to delete the posts, so hopefully not much damage done.

[Alienturnedhuman]

Anyone been following whats been going on on Instagram today with Hamilton and Marko? Hamilton should probably apologise.

To be clear, I am not accusing you of this (especially as you have including the word probably) - but I have seen so much outrage on Twitter who are whipping up such a frenzy about Hamilton's comment, it's as if the biggest crime from the whole George Floyd incident is Hamilton believing a widely circulated story that appeared to be sourced.

It came across my radar before Hamilton posted about it as Google Now was showing the story, I suspect that is probably where Hamilton saw it too.

I'm sure that Hamilton will apologise to Marko, if he hasn't already, but those in the public eye know this happens all the time. Just about every race a driver makes a throwaway comment about a competitor and the reporters reword it and take it out of context to try and provoke the other one. The whole F1 circus is used to this as it happens all the time. People managing to turn BLM into 'poor old Marko' (the person they usually treat as the pantomime villain of F1) just goes to show where they really stand on the issue...

It absolutely doesn't have to be a big deal but Hamilton pretty much called Marko a grade A racist and broadcasted that to his 18 million Instagram followers. In this day and age that's a really serious allegation. He needs to correct that mistake because most people who saw it will still think Marko said those words.

He appears, for some reason, to be reluctant to do that. Sometimes if you're going to be a leader you do have to own up to your mistakes.

Firstly, no he didn't call Marko a grade A racist or anything like that. What he said was:

"Helmut, it deeply saddens me that you consider fighting for equal treatment of black people and people of colour a distraction. I'm actually quote offended. A distraction for me was fans showing up in black face to taunt my family on race weekends. A distraction for me was the unnecessary and additional adversity and unfair treatment I faced as a child, teen and even now, due to the colour of my skin. I hope this speaks volumes to the few people of colour you do have on your team, about your priorities and how you view them. Wake up. This sport needs to change."

And secondly, Marko has publicly spoken about it and has said that Hamilton's reaction to the fake news was completely understandable. He puts 100% of the blame with the tweet and website that reported the tweet as a fact. He also stated he has been in contact with Hamilton and the matter is resolved.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mark ... a/4808588/

I think that paragraph is calling Marko a racist. "I hope this speaks volumes to the few people of colour you do have on your team, about your priorities and how you view them" I know how I read that and I won't be the only one.

I know what Marko's said. My opinion hasn't changed. Hamilton would do better to correct the (understandable) mistake he made. I don't think he's done that and I think that's a shame.

As I said it's not a big deal but Hamilton made a mistake which has left people with a false impression. He should correct that.

Hamilton was not the source of the story. EssentiallySports and the so called 'parody' Twitter account are.

Hamilton is not a news website. He was the person who was misinformed by the news, and the consequence of that outlet's failure to check its sources was someone (ie Hamilton) reading it and responding to it.

And that is exactly what Helmut Marko has said in response. If you read something in a news publication that is reporting something as fact - not opinion - then ultimately the consequences of someone reacting to that news as it was reported is the responsibility of the journalist and publication who reported it.

The statements have been carefully worded by Red Bull and Marko to make no mention of an apology, even though it is virtually certain that the correspondences would have included them once it was clear Marko had said nothing of the sort. Why do you think that is? It's because it known by everyone, from Marko, to Red Bull, to Hamilton that suddenly making a big apology changes to story to be all about the apology and not about the issue of racism.

As for the suggestion that Helmut Marko is somehow damaged by this? That's laughable, if anything this has strengthened his credibility. Not only did he have all the anti BLMs clamouring to draw attention to this, but all the publications in the mainstream F1 media are covering how he was mislabelled so the vast, vast majority of people who do know who Marko is will know not only was he mislabelled, he is in fact an ally of the cause.

Also, given that someone repeatedly accused of racism, who repeated used racist language and descriptions of people from non white countries, managed to become the most powerful person in the United Kingdom, I would hardly describe 'being accused of racism' to be a serious success impediment, even if the label isn't removed.

[Alienturnedhuman]

Yes, I agree with Mikey, he didn't call him racist, but painted him as one pretty well.

All in all it was a mistake, both sides have reconciled and nothing more to see really. Hamilton was swift to delete the posts, so hopefully not much damage done.

Mikey said “Grade A racist” - at worst this is accusing him of not caring about BLM or minority issues.

[mikeyg123]

To be clear, I am not accusing you of this (especially as you have including the word probably) - but I have seen so much outrage on Twitter who are whipping up such a frenzy about Hamilton's comment, it's as if the biggest crime from the whole George Floyd incident is Hamilton believing a widely circulated story that appeared to be sourced.

It came across my radar before Hamilton posted about it as Google Now was showing the story, I suspect that is probably where Hamilton saw it too.

I'm sure that Hamilton will apologise to Marko, if he hasn't already, but those in the public eye know this happens all the time. Just about every race a driver makes a throwaway comment about a competitor and the reporters reword it and take it out of context to try and provoke the other one. The whole F1 circus is used to this as it happens all the time. People managing to turn BLM into 'poor old Marko' (the person they usually treat as the pantomime villain of F1) just goes to show where they really stand on the issue...

It absolutely doesn't have to be a big deal but Hamilton pretty much called Marko a grade A racist and broadcasted that to his 18 million Instagram followers. In this day and age that's a really serious allegation. He needs to correct that mistake because most people who saw it will still think Marko said those words.

He appears, for some reason, to be reluctant to do that. Sometimes if you're going to be a leader you do have to own up to your mistakes.

Firstly, no he didn't call Marko a grade A racist or anything like that. What he said was:

"Helmut, it deeply saddens me that you consider fighting for equal treatment of black people and people of colour a distraction. I'm actually quote offended. A distraction for me was fans showing up in black face to taunt my family on race weekends. A distraction for me was the unnecessary and additional adversity and unfair treatment I faced as a child, teen and even now, due to the colour of my skin. I hope this speaks volumes to the few people of colour you do have on your team, about your priorities and how you view them. Wake up. This sport needs to change."

And secondly, Marko has publicly spoken about it and has said that Hamilton's reaction to the fake news was completely understandable. He puts 100% of the blame with the tweet and website that reported the tweet as a fact. He also stated he has been in contact with Hamilton and the matter is resolved.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mark ... a/4808588/

I think that paragraph is calling Marko a racist. "I hope this speaks volumes to the few people of colour you do have on your team, about your priorities and how you view them" I know how I read that and I won't be the only one.

I know what Marko's said. My opinion hasn't changed. Hamilton would do better to correct the (understandable) mistake he made. I don't think he's done that and I think that's a shame.

As I said it's not a big deal but Hamilton made a mistake which has left people with a false impression. He should correct that.

Hamilton was not the source of the story. EssentiallySports and the so called 'parody' Twitter account are.

Hamilton is not a news website. He was the person who was misinformed by the news, and the consequence of that outlet's failure to check its sources was someone (ie Hamilton) reading it and responding to it.

And that is exactly what Helmut Marko has said in response. If you read something in a news publication that is reporting something as fact - not opinion - then ultimately the consequences of someone reacting to that news as it was reported is the responsibility of the journalist and publication who reported it.

The statements have been carefully worded by Red Bull and Marko to make no mention of an apology, even though it is virtually certain that the correspondences would have included them once it was clear Marko had said nothing of the sort. Why do you think that is? It's because it known by everyone, from Marko, to Red Bull, to Hamilton that suddenly making a big apology changes to story to be all about the apology and not about the issue of racism.

As for the suggestion that Helmut Marko is somehow damaged by this? That's laughable, if anything this has strengthened his credibility. Not only did he have all the anti BLMs clamouring to draw attention to this, but all the publications in the mainstream F1 media are covering how he was mislabelled so the vast, vast majority of people who do know who Marko is will know not only was he mislabelled, he is in fact an ally of the cause.

Also, given that someone repeatedly accused of racism, who repeated used racist language and descriptions of people from non white countries, managed to become the most powerful person in the United Kingdom, I would hardly describe 'being accused of racism' to be a serious success impediment, even if the label isn't removed.

I disagree with pretty much of all of that but you're entitled to your view and it's hardly a big issue so i'll leave it there.

[Siao7]

Yes, I agree with Mikey, he didn't call him racist, but painted him as one pretty well.

All in all it was a mistake, both sides have reconciled and nothing more to see really. Hamilton was swift to delete the posts, so hopefully not much damage done.

Mikey said “Grade A racist” - at worst this is accusing him of not caring about BLM or minority issues.

Come on, he calls him out personally to check the priorities in his own team, a team that he mentions has very few people of colour (wink-wink). Why would you even mention that if it wasn't meant like a dig? Maybe Mikey's terminology was very harsh, but you can see the message that Hamilton wanted to pass, as unfortunate as an incident that it was.

[mikeyg123]

Yes, I agree with Mikey, he didn't call him racist, but painted him as one pretty well.

All in all it was a mistake, both sides have reconciled and nothing more to see really. Hamilton was swift to delete the posts, so hopefully not much damage done.

Mikey said “Grade A racist” - at worst this is accusing him of not caring about BLM or minority issues.

Come on, he calls him out personally to check the priorities in his own team, a team that he mentions has very few people of colour (wink-wink). Why would you even mention that if it wasn't meant like a dig? Maybe Mikey's terminology was very harsh, but you can see the message that Hamilton wanted to pass, as unfortunate as an incident that it was.

I did also say he was "basically" calling Marko a grade A racist in order to imply that he wasn't exactly doing that. I feel that was the sentiment.

Interesting I believe I read somewhere about a month ago that RBR has the largest BAME staff % out of all the teams. I can't remember where I found that though so can't source.

[Rockie]

Anyone who says 'All Lives Matter' is either a racist or a racist apologist.

Defund the Police it was done in NJ and worked why cant it work in Minneapolis as well, 8 mins 46 secs except you are a racist there is no way you'd want a PD like that to continue without total reform.

Its no different to going to a burial and when everyone is going to the podium to talk about the dead, and someone gets up there and says what about me, I'm a good person as well why is no one heaping praise on me.

Also for the people saying other races are being brutalised as well, then its up to them to speak up. The last couple of weeks have seen black men hanging from trees and being labelled as suicide reminiscent of the lynching era, anti lynching bill in America was just passed in the last 12 months so let that sink, so states dont have hate crime bill. Ahmed Aubrey was haunted like an Animal in broad day light by an ex cop and the DA and cops were about to cover it up.

Team Churchill, we might also erect a Jimmy Saville statue afterall we could ignore his paedophilia and just focus on his fundraising for charity, NHS and helping kids with 'Jim will fix it'.

What I cant get my head around is how does 'Black Lives Matter' become political, it is about fighting racism you got to wonder if this people were around during the Hitler years, they would be out here defending him.

[F1 MERCENARY]

Since you're insinuating me… I'll remind you that I said I did speak up but no one wanted to hear it/me.
You don't get to label anyone a racist or racist apologist because they ALSO stated that while they fully support BLM, the also feel ALL lives matter.
I've been subject to the same type of treatment as black men but have been lucky thus far it hasn't escalated to that degree, but the next time… Who knows.
It's a reality some of us live with.

This was published in 2016 and it's been spoken about at length but as with the black populous, our cries also fall on deaf ears.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/bla ... -last-week

Educate yourself before assuming that others haven't spoken up.

[Charles LeBrad]

Its no different to going to a burial and when everyone is going to the podium to talk about the dead, and someone gets up there and says what about me, I'm a good person as well why is no one heaping praise on me.

I liked Michael Che’s point to All Lives Matter

They hit you with that slick s—. Like, well, ‘All lives matter. ‘ Really, semantics? That would be like if your wife came up to you and was like ‘Do you love me?’ And you’re like, ‘Baby, I love everybody, what are you talking about?”

[Verstappen33]

"Anyone who says 'All Lives Matter' is either a racist or a racist apologist."

I understand you want to make a point here but this has to be a strange reaction don't you think?
It just shows again how out of context everything get's. Now everyone who feels that all lives matter is simply a racist or racist apologist?

I don't know your age, your experience in life or your intentions but I just wish that you can have a more open view to all of this instead of this close minded view.



And as for Hamilton.
Motivating people to do damage to statues has to be as low as it get's. Posting an image of a black man hanging an figure dressed like a KKK member comes a close second. The idiots that are with some sick club like the KKK will die out. Putting the focus on such a small group of racists is never a good thing. By trying to creat equality he is just creating the opposite. People who are not of the color black and are good human beings feel personally attacked in a bad way.

If he wants the statues to be removed. That's not up to him. He can start a fund and talk about it doing it the right way. Educating people and all. Not demanding. That is not how things work.

We can't go to another country and demand that a church has to be put down because it might not be our faith.
We also can't erase history. It would be shortsighted.
Should we demolish the ancient Roman architecture just because the Romans did thing we would do differently today?

It saddens me that people can't think for themselves anymore. Social media is a big part of that problem. Sheep that follow.

[Rockie]

"Anyone who says 'All Lives Matter' is either a racist or a racist apologist."

I understand you want to make a point here but this has to be a strange reaction don't you think?
It just shows again how out of context everything get's. Now everyone who feels that all lives matter is simply a racist or racist apologist?

I don't know your age, your experience in life or your intentions but I just wish that you can have a more open view to all of this instead of this close minded view.



And as for Hamilton.
Motivating people to do damage to statues has to be as low as it get's. Posting an image of a black man hanging an figure dressed like a KKK member comes a close second. The idiots that are with some sick club like the KKK will die out. Putting the focus on such a small group of racists is never a good thing. By trying to creat equality he is just creating the opposite. People who are not of the color black and are good human beings feel personally attacked in a bad way.

If he wants the statues to be removed. That's not up to him. He can start a fund and talk about it doing it the right way. Educating people and all. Not demanding. That is not how things work.

We can't go to another country and demand that a church has to be put down because it might not be our faith.
We also can't erase history. It would be shortsighted.
Should we demolish the ancient Roman architecture just because the Romans did thing we would do differently today?

It saddens me that people can't think for themselves anymore. Social media is a big part of that problem. Sheep that follow.

What context is there in unarmed black people being killed? I really would like to know?

All lives matter only comes up when people start protesting Black Lives Matter after another unarmed black person is killed. Also all live can only matter when black lives matter.

How does a little black boy playing with a bibi gun in a park gets shot in the back and killed with the officer saying he feared for his life.

How does a man relaxing in his own house get killed by a female officer who says she mistook it for her own apartment? The list is endless.

Your take on Hamilton tells me all I need to know about you!

If as a human being you feel attacked because of BLM trying to get equity, after watching the murder of a fellow man based on his race in cold blood in broad day light then there really is no point.

How exactly do you erase history by removing statues? You will not find a statue of Hitler anywhere in Germany or any part of the Berlin wall, it hasn't stopped the Germans from learning about the atrocities he committed or why anything like the Berlin wall should never happen again.

People do think for themselves that's why they won't stand for injustice going forward, it's the group think on the right that wants to maintain the oppression that's why some Republicans in America fly the confederate flag and call themselves patriots, when the people who stood behind that flag then were traitors that took up arms against their own government to stop abolition of slavery.

[Rockie]

Since you're insinuating me… I'll remind you that I said I did speak up but no one wanted to hear it/me.
You don't get to label anyone a racist or racist apologist because they ALSO stated that while they fully support BLM, the also feel ALL lives matter.
I've been subject to the same type of treatment as black men but have been lucky thus far it hasn't escalated to that degree, but the next time… Who knows.
It's a reality some of us live with.

This was published in 2016 and it's been spoken about at length but as with the black populous, our cries also fall on deaf ears.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/bla ... -last-week

Educate yourself before assuming that others haven't spoken up.

Still don't see the point of your reply, if you feel All lives matter all well and good.

Dylan Roof went into a church and murdered people was still armed when he was tracked down he was arrested and got burger king for lunch.

So all lives would matter when black lives matter, if latinx want to start a campaign as well no one would stop them.

[Jezza13]

If as a human being you feel attacked because of BLM trying to get equity, after watching the murder of a fellow man based on his race in cold blood in broad day light then there really is no point.

Honest question here & I understand the bigger picture issue & all that but i'm just curious.

Has it actually been established that George Floyds murder was indeed racially motivated? Has that been officially confirmed?

Just so my question can't be mis-interpreted here, based on what i've read & heard, there's very little doubt in my mind race was a factor in his death but I'm just curious I suppose if it's been verified to be the case.

[Charles LeBrad]

If as a human being you feel attacked because of BLM trying to get equity, after watching the murder of a fellow man based on his race in cold blood in broad day light then there really is no point.

Honest question here & I understand the bigger picture issue & all that but i'm just curious.

Has it actually been established that George Floyds murder was indeed racially motivated? Has that been officially confirmed?

Just so my question can't be mis-interpreted here, based on what i've read & heard, there's very little doubt in my mind race was a factor in his death but I'm just curious I suppose if it's been verified to be the case.

Responding to you honestly as well, so forgive me if it comes across smart or sarcastic, but do you think we'll ever truly know? The police officer in question is never going to come out and admit to that if it was a deliberate motivational factor. If it wasn't deliberate, you still have the sub-conscious bias aspect towards it

[Jezza13]

If as a human being you feel attacked because of BLM trying to get equity, after watching the murder of a fellow man based on his race in cold blood in broad day light then there really is no point.

Honest question here & I understand the bigger picture issue & all that but i'm just curious.

Has it actually been established that George Floyds murder was indeed racially motivated? Has that been officially confirmed?

Just so my question can't be mis-interpreted here, based on what i've read & heard, there's very little doubt in my mind race was a factor in his death but I'm just curious I suppose if it's been verified to be the case.

Responding to you honestly as well, so forgive me if it comes across smart or sarcastic, but do you think we'll ever truly know? The police officer in question is never going to come out and admit to that if it was a deliberate motivational factor. If it wasn't deliberate, you still have the sub-conscious bias aspect towards it

Didn't take it as smart or sarcastic & I though twice about posting the question because in the end it makes little difference. Maybe a question better left unasked but as I said, just curious.

[Exediron]

Didn't take it as smart or sarcastic & I though twice about posting the question because in the end it makes little difference. Maybe a question better left unasked but as I said, just curious.

It has not been. Such a confirmation could only really come out at the trial, if then -- and the trial hasn't even begun yet.

(note that I very much believe it to have been racially motivated)

[Asphalt_World]

Beyond belief!
https://www.motorsport.com/nascar-cup/n ... e/4810092/

[Covalent]

Its no different to going to a burial and when everyone is going to the podium to talk about the dead, and someone gets up there and says what about me, I'm a good person as well why is no one heaping praise on me.

I liked Michael Che’s point to All Lives Matter

They hit you with that slick s—. Like, well, ‘All lives matter. ‘ Really, semantics? That would be like if your wife came up to you and was like ‘Do you love me?’ And you’re like, ‘Baby, I love everybody, what are you talking about?”

I think that's about as poor as analogies get. I don't think black people want everyone to love them as husband loves his wife, ie. above all else, but rather equally.

[Banana Man]

Didn't take it as smart or sarcastic & I though twice about posting the question because in the end it makes little difference. Maybe a question better left unasked but as I said, just curious.

On the contrary, I think it's a question which it is imperative should be asked.

The only details I've heard confirmed so far are that Chauvin had 13 previous complaints upheld against him and that he may have known Floyd from working security together a few years ago. If it was racially motivated I'd have expected a few more clues to have leaked out by now. Photos on social media at far right rallies, liking racist posts or extremist organisations on Facebook. That kind of thing.

Personally (and I know this will be an unpopular view) I don't think he intended to kill Floyd. I mean, IF you did want to kill a black man, doing it on duty, in uniform, in the middle of a public street, surrounded by other officers and people recording with phones... that's one hell of a balls out strategy. I think he was just an incredibly reckless thug and this time he finally went too far.

Beyond belief!https://www.motorsport.com/nascar-cup/n ... e/4810092/

Given the part of the world where NASCAR is popular, sadly I find this very much believable.

[Rockie]

If as a human being you feel attacked because of BLM trying to get equity, after watching the murder of a fellow man based on his race in cold blood in broad day light then there really is no point.

Honest question here & I understand the bigger picture issue & all that but i'm just curious.

Has it actually been established that George Floyds murder was indeed racially motivated? Has that been officially confirmed?

Just so my question can't be mis-interpreted here, based on what i've read & heard, there's very little doubt in my mind race was a factor in his death but I'm just curious I suppose if it's been verified to be the case.

Well it just so happens that black folks end up being in choke hold or have their necks knelt on by white cops till they pass out, but somehow we have to wait till the cops confess to it.

[Alienturnedhuman]

Didn't take it as smart or sarcastic & I though twice about posting the question because in the end it makes little difference. Maybe a question better left unasked but as I said, just curious.

On the contrary, I think it's a question which it is imperative should be asked.

The only details I've heard confirmed so far are that Chauvin had 13 previous complaints upheld against him and that he may have known Floyd from working security together a few years ago. If it was racially motivated I'd have expected a few more clues to have leaked out by now. Photos on social media at far right rallies, liking racist posts or extremist organisations on Facebook. That kind of thing.

Personally (and I know this will be an unpopular view) I don't think he intended to kill Floyd. I mean, IF you did want to kill a black man, doing it on duty, in uniform, in the middle of a public street, surrounded by other officers and people recording with phones... that's one hell of a balls out strategy.I think he was just an incredibly reckless thug and this time he finally went too far.

There is an implication in the highlighted part, and I hope you did not intend this, that had he not killed Floyd and not left any lasting damage to him, that his actions would therefore not have been 'too far.'

Also, the issue of whether Chauvin was explicitly racist, or that he was consciously - or even subconsciously - racist in deciding his actions is totally irrelevant to the issue of systemic racism. You have can have systemic racism even if every single police officer was a 100% ethical, non racist individual.

For example, and this is a very simplified example for the purposes of explaining the point.

Suppose the rich neighbourhoods have 95% white people living there, and 5% black people living there. The poor neighbourhoods meanwhile have 75% white people and 25% black people living there. People from the poor neighbourhood have been robbing the houses from the rich neighbourhood. The population of rich neighbourhood is 20% of the total, and race plays no factor in determining if someone is a robber or not, just that they come from the poor neighbourhood (therefore are 25% black and 75% white)

If you are going to perform stop and search on people in the neighbourhood, then statistically a black person in the rich area is more likely to not be from that neighbourhood, and they are also more likely to be from the poor neighbourhood than the rich one. A random black person is 20 times more likely to be from the poor neighbourhood than the rich one, whereas a random white person is 3 times more likely to be from the poor neighbourhood than the rich one.

If a police officer was tasked with 'randomly' stopping and searching people in the rich neighbourhood, the best strategy to find people who didn't belong there would be to only stop black people even though. Even though 3 times as many robbers are white than black, it's still more than twice as likely that a random black person stopped will be a robber than a random white person.

There is no racism in the officer, there is no racism in the maths, and on a purely logical and gamified approach to policing it is the most successful strategy to take to fight crime. But the result is systemic racism.

[Verstappen33]

Dear Rockie

Why would an officer kill a person just because he or she is black?

Why would you assume color has anything to do with it?
Color only matters to them when it comes to describing a "suspect" I they are looking for a white male, shaved head, 6 feet 2 and you match the profile when they come and ask questions do you feel personally attacked and is it racial profiling? Do you resist answering their questions? Do you get agressive?

Police put their lives at stake every single day. They have to assume you are the suspect they are after. If that means calling you a white male or black male, so be it. It's very hard to find a suspect with the description "World citizen" and not knowing if it's a he or she etc.

If you cooperate to show your id when asked, are not agressive, have nothing to hide I really doubt an officer wil use any force on you. If you are not doing all that and are causing trouble they have to do it. If someone dies because of the force being used that is a loss to us all.

The funny thing is we all mean the same thing here. At least I have the feeling we do.


A white man's life is no more worth than a black man's life.
A black man's life is no more worth than a white man's life.

Saying "all lives matter" is understandable when all lives matter in the first place. Personally, I see no color. I see people. How they behave is how I see them. If you behave unpleasant and badly your are to me an unpleasant person. Color has nothing to do with it.

I would however condemn if anyone got a certain job or position because of color. Best man / women for the job. No matter the color.



P.s. About the statues. Erasing history is never a good thing. It's better to add some information to it. If a statue needs to be removed, it better be done officially instead by an angry mob.


EDIT: Read the post of AlienturnedHuman
Leave it to the Aliens to tell us how it is lol
That is indeed how the police works and get's results. It's the logical way to do things. Not always fun for the people involved, no, but if it helps to fight crime it's worth it.

[Alienturnedhuman]

EDIT: Read the post of AlienturnedHuman
Leave it to the Aliens to tell us how it is lol
That is indeed how the police works and get's results. It's the logical way to do things. Not always fun for the people involved, no, but if it helps to fight crime it's worth it.

I don't think that was the point I was making.

[Flash2k11]

If you cooperate to show your id when asked, are not agressive, have nothing to hide I really doubt an officer wil use any force on you. If you are not doing all that and are causing trouble they have to do it. If someone dies because of the force being used that is a loss to us all.

This not being true for black people in a lot of places in the world is the entire point behind this whole movement, a point that seems to continue to escape you.

[kleefton]

Didn't take it as smart or sarcastic & I though twice about posting the question because in the end it makes little difference. Maybe a question better left unasked but as I said, just curious.

On the contrary, I think it's a question which it is imperative should be asked.

The only details I've heard confirmed so far are that Chauvin had 13 previous complaints upheld against him and that he may have known Floyd from working security together a few years ago. If it was racially motivated I'd have expected a few more clues to have leaked out by now. Photos on social media at far right rallies, liking racist posts or extremist organisations on Facebook. That kind of thing.

Personally (and I know this will be an unpopular view) I don't think he intended to kill Floyd. I mean, IF you did want to kill a black man, doing it on duty, in uniform, in the middle of a public street, surrounded by other officers and people recording with phones... that's one hell of a balls out strategy. I think he was just an incredibly reckless thug and this time he finally went too far.

Beyond belief!https://www.motorsport.com/nascar-cup/n ... e/4810092/

Given the part of the world where NASCAR is popular, sadly I find this very much believable.

I agree with this and I'm black. Who in their right mind is going to assassinate someone in broad day light and while people are filming?
Chauvin was a typical entitled cop who didn't understand the meaning and the sense of responsibility that comes with his badge and there are so many like him out there. The guy that shot Rayshard Brooks was friendly and joking with him a few minutes before he shot him, so I also don't think he was a racist. He just panicked and saw that a prisoner was slipping away from his grasp, hence felt he had to resort to lethal force, to probably preserve his pride.

I remember about 20 years ago, i got pulled over for street racing and my friend who I was racing at the time got a gun pulled to his head. Mind you my friend was Chinese. I just stood there shocked, trying to understand why a person street racing and complying with every request the officer made is getting a gun pulled to his head with the officer yelling "I should blow your head off right now". This is just one of many incidents. The police has pulled me over for no reason at all, countless times over the years. I have gone frustrated with them and have lost my temper a couple of times, which wasn't the smartetst thing to do in hindsight, but it just sucks man.
I believe that some of them ARE racists, and some just see black people as a threat but the main problem is the abuse of power. This is what needs to stop. Black Lives Matter to me is a movement to raises awareness to the police brutality and the fact it so often results in black men and women being killed by the police. It doesn't mean that not all lives matter. Of course they do. Its message is meant for cops to just stop killing black people but also stop killing all people as well.

[Exediron]

Dear Rockie

Why would an officer kill a person just because he or she is black?

Why would you assume color has anything to do with it?
Color only matters to them when it comes to describing a "suspect" I they are looking for a white male, shaved head, 6 feet 2 and you match the profile when they come and ask questions do you feel personally attacked and is it racial profiling? Do you resist answering their questions? Do you get agressive?

Police put their lives at stake every single day. They have to assume you are the suspect they are after. If that means calling you a white male or black male, so be it. It's very hard to find a suspect with the description "World citizen" and not knowing if it's a he or she etc.

If you cooperate to show your id when asked, are not agressive, have nothing to hide I really doubt an officer wil use any force on you. If you are not doing all that and are causing trouble they have to do it. If someone dies because of the force being used that is a loss to us all.

The funny thing is we all mean the same thing here. At least I have the feeling we do.

A white man's life is no more worth than a black man's life.
A black man's life is no more worth than a white man's life.

Saying "all lives matter" is understandable when all lives matter in the first place. Personally, I see no color. I see people. How they behave is how I see them. If you behave unpleasant and badly your are to me an unpleasant person. Color has nothing to do with it.

I would however condemn if anyone got a certain job or position because of color. Best man / women for the job. No matter the color.

This is honestly one of the most naive posts I have seen in all my time on the internet. I don't even know where to start.

I really wish this was how things work -- but it's not. If a white male, approximately six feet tall, commits a robbery somewhere in my neighborhood, I'm not in any danger of being randomly arrested. If I was black and a black male did a robbery, I would suddenly 'fit the description' from the point of view of a lot of officers.

In America, you're presumed innocent if you're white. You're presumed guilty (and dangerous) if you're black.

[Zazu]

The USA Police kill white people and a lot of Hispanic people as well.

In the UK if you're white and fit a description the Police will stop you...

[Verstappen33]

Exediron

It is how it works here. It is how it works to people like me, and others. I can't speak for every country but who can?
I am sure people of color will have more incidents like this but stating it's only linked to colored people is just very untrue. Again, here.

And Alienturnedhuman I am not sure what I wrote is different to what you wrote. It is the way the police opperates. It is how it is. It is not nice how it is but it explains how they work.

I only see people write that it's all so untrue and not how things are. Again, everyone may have their own experience and opinion. As I said, I feel we all feel the same. Somehow this doesn't come across in the typing or the answers. For me personally I mean no disrespect to anyone. I just wish we can unite more instead of being devided.

Kleefton

I read your post and thank you for writing it. It saddens me if you are ever discriminated because of color. It is something no one should go through It really helps sharing stories, to me at least it helps.

[Alienturnedhuman]

And Alienturnedhuman I am not sure what I wrote is different to what you wrote. It is the way the police opperates. It is how it is. It is not nice how it is but it explains how they work.

I only see people write that it's all so untrue and not how things are. Again, everyone may have their own experience and opinion. As I said, I feel we all feel the same. Somehow this doesn't come across in the typing or the answers. For me personally I mean no disrespect to anyone. I just wish we can unite more instead of being devided.

It is indeed an analogy of how the police operates. However, the consequence of that is that 75% of all criminals will not be stopped and searched. The consequences of it in the real world is that visible minorities end up being less like to offend, but it still more probable to find a criminal by using stop and search on them.

It's systemic racism, it needs to stop - not just because it's racist - but because it's ineffective at stopping crime - which was your justification for it being - in your own words - "not much fun for those involved" (ie, the majority innocent black people who get stopped and searched solely due to their skin colour) which you then went on to say that because it stops some crime it makes it worth it.

By the same logic, literally jailing every single black person for life in the UK would 'stop some crime' because there will be at least one black criminal and therefore by jailing every black person you stop that one criminal from committing a crime. However I hope that you agree that would not be right.

[Verstappen33]

Thank you for taking the time to write your explanation. It makes sense to me.

I feel we are on the same page.

I don't know how it is in other countries but here it taking a different turn. Police not taking action when it involves a certain group. People jumping on police cars and officers need to stay put and watch how it unfolds because it involves a certain group. I am sure this is not what anyone wants except for that group who misbehaves.

On the other hand, I myself have been stopped many times. And stopping me is ok, because I can handle it better since I don't belong to the "minority" group is what I've told. I've been called pig, spit on, attacked verbally and physically just for being me at a normal place and at a normal time.

I can't take action to those people because "I should know better" It is a strange way of thinking.

My best friend is homosexual. He got verbally attacked at the gym time and time again by a father and son. Calling hin all the names you can think of. Then later they physically began stopping his way to equipement when no other people were around. He spoke about it to the managment many times. They couldn't do anything if they didn't see it happening they said. One morning he went to the bathroom and the father came in when he was done blocking the doorway. He asked if to step asside but the man called him again a worthless faggot and spit in his face. My friend said he really went to far and he would get to the front desk since this had to be stopped. The father wanted to leash out but my friend hit him first when he noticed that. The man fell on the toilet bowl and cut his head passing out. A lot of blood all over the place because of the cut to his head. Police came to the scene and took my friend in to custody. He was banned from the gym.
Father and son are still their causing their troubles.

It happens that father and son belong to the minority group here. They are from Morocco. But does this mean they should be treated better than anyone else? That father harasses women at that gym. Asking them how the sex is with their husbands feeling their behind and all. They will not do anything because it is a minority group.

People come here to rob houses. They get the treatment lime they are kings. Police can't touch them because they are minority. It is that sad.

Jewelery stores are a big target. Three robbers hit the store owner almost to death and when they had the gun on his his wife came in and shot one of them. That robber died because of the wounds. The wife and owner are still in custody. The family of the dead robber wants to see money. It's a strange world we live in. By no means fair.

I face real racism. I am sure all of you do as well. That does not mean I project racism when looking at people from different color or backgrounds.

It hits me hard when I'm typing this and I am reading here I am a racist because I feel, rightly so I think, that all lives matter.

I support the cause that we should unite more. I support it for people of color to not be discriminated. Yes the police can do better and they will. But may they at least take action to the people that are doing harm. No matter the color. So yes to black lives matter if this will bring us closer to a more united civilization. There will always be rotten apples in our society. Let's just not give them any more power.

[pokerman]

Anyone who says 'All Lives Matter' is either a racist or a racist apologist.

Defund the Police it was done in NJ and worked why cant it work in Minneapolis as well, 8 mins 46 secs except you are a racist there is no way you'd want a PD like that to continue without total reform.

Its no different to going to a burial and when everyone is going to the podium to talk about the dead, and someone gets up there and says what about me, I'm a good person as well why is no one heaping praise on me.

Also for the people saying other races are being brutalised as well, then its up to them to speak up. The last couple of weeks have seen black men hanging from trees and being labelled as suicide reminiscent of the lynching era, anti lynching bill in America was just passed in the last 12 months so let that sink, so states dont have hate crime bill. Ahmed Aubrey was haunted like an Animal in broad day light by an ex cop and the DA and cops were about to cover it up.

Team Churchill, we might also erect a Jimmy Saville statue afterall we could ignore his paedophilia and just focus on his fundraising for charity, NHS and helping kids with 'Jim will fix it'.

What I cant get my head around is how does 'Black Lives Matter' become political, it is about fighting racism you got to wonder if this people were around during the Hitler years, they would be out here defending him.

Jimmy Saville was protected by the BBC the same company that seems to be supporting BLM and clearly has a left wing (marxist) agenda.

BLM is not political, really?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdpIIiBe7Wc

[pokerman]

"Anyone who says 'All Lives Matter' is either a racist or a racist apologist."

I understand you want to make a point here but this has to be a strange reaction don't you think?
It just shows again how out of context everything get's. Now everyone who feels that all lives matter is simply a racist or racist apologist?

I don't know your age, your experience in life or your intentions but I just wish that you can have a more open view to all of this instead of this close minded view.



And as for Hamilton.
Motivating people to do damage to statues has to be as low as it get's. Posting an image of a black man hanging an figure dressed like a KKK member comes a close second. The idiots that are with some sick club like the KKK will die out. Putting the focus on such a small group of racists is never a good thing. By trying to creat equality he is just creating the opposite. People who are not of the color black and are good human beings feel personally attacked in a bad way.

If he wants the statues to be removed. That's not up to him. He can start a fund and talk about it doing it the right way. Educating people and all. Not demanding. That is not how things work.

We can't go to another country and demand that a church has to be put down because it might not be our faith.
We also can't erase history. It would be shortsighted.
Should we demolish the ancient Roman architecture just because the Romans did thing we would do differently today?

It saddens me that people can't think for themselves anymore. Social media is a big part of that problem. Sheep that follow.

What context is there in unarmed black people being killed? I really would like to know?

All lives matter only comes up when people start protesting Black Lives Matter after another unarmed black person is killed. Also all live can only matter when black lives matter.

How does a little black boy playing with a bibi gun in a park gets shot in the back and killed with the officer saying he feared for his life.

How does a man relaxing in his own house get killed by a female officer who says she mistook it for her own apartment? The list is endless.

Your take on Hamilton tells me all I need to know about you!

If as a human being you feel attacked because of BLM trying to get equity, after watching the murder of a fellow man based on his race in cold blood in broad day light then there really is no point.

How exactly do you erase history by removing statues? You will not find a statue of Hitler anywhere in Germany or any part of the Berlin wall, it hasn't stopped the Germans from learning about the atrocities he committed or why anything like the Berlin wall should never happen again.

People do think for themselves that's why they won't stand for injustice going forward, it's the group think on the right that wants to maintain the oppression that's why some Republicans in America fly the confederate flag and call themselves patriots, when the people who stood behind that flag then were traitors that took up arms against their own government to stop abolition of slavery.

Violence needn't beget more violence and it becomes evident that certain black lives matter more were political stances can be made, did the well being of the young black woman's father not matter the same, "I phoned the police but there was no answer".

This is what society becomes, a black man being beaten on the floor trying to protect his shop during the BLM protests (riots), and the police unable to protect the man, I thought black lives mattered?

[pokerman]

An interview with a UK BLM activist, the protests were peaceful, any violence was instigated by the police, get rid of the police, anybody looking to protect the statues were faschists, he believes in democracy but in the wake of the tories getting into power the people should take to the streets to evoke a revolution, if violence is invoked because of something like police inteference stopping the protestors doing whatever they feel the need to do then so be it.

We need to emulate the Russian revolution and take down the capitalistic economy and believes in the writngs of Karl Marx whilst the likes of Churchill was just a racist faschist who only went to war with Nazi Germany in order to defend the British Empire from invasion, otherwise the two countries had similar ideals.

Last of all and no surprise the guy is not proud to be British.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UoA2RHLlww

[pokerman]

So you say that this guy is just a blow hard and America is not really losing control?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxxHV5vu1Mo

[pokerman]

Winston Churchill removed from google but not Stalin or Hitler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy4G2xUgXU4

Holy crap my confidence in the intelligence of my fellow Briton has taken a sharp nosedive. The idea that Google would decide to remove Churchill's image is a) not in line with the reasons a minority of people who have said his statue should be taken down (because a statue is put up to celebrate an individual, and Google's timeline is a historical record and b) given that Hitler's image is shown by Google, fails just on a basic logic test that they have some moral reason for it.

Whoever caused the image to disappear (assuming it wasn't just a technical glitch) did it solely to cause outrage. And anyone who doesn't realise that after a little bit of thought is a complete and utter gullible moron and is the fuel for the fire that those seeking to cause the outrage are trying to ignite.

It doesn't require any understanding about how search engines organise data, or computers, to be able to reach that conclusion, it's as simple as:

a) The discussion about removing Churchill's statue is a political issue right now
b) Churchill image disappeared from Google's knowledge graph
c) The images of objectively far worse people remained in Google's knowledge graph
d) Churchill's image was the only notable person who this happened to

If you continue to believe that Google decided to remove Churchill's image to make a political statement then you just want to believe it because you want to be outraged.

(And before I continue, the image of Churchill is appearing for me, even when I use a VPN to appear in the UK, so I am assuming that is the case for everyone)

I am a software engineer and I studied modules in both machine learning and AI in my degree - I am certainly by no means an expert in either but I have a general overview about how these things work, and Google uses AI and Machine Learning to create its results. It's not curated by humans, although humans can step in and override the computers decisions if they have been discovered to make an error. My main line of work is with web servers and have worked in that field for over 20 years.

Google does not manually enter information, it gathers it all by having its computers automatically search and gather information from other websites.

At a simple level, if Google was referencing just a single website as a source and that source website has a technical issue, or if the link to the image is broken, or is sabotaged, then the image will be represented by that blank placeholder as Google's search engine cannot find an image.

Likewise, someone could - if they wanted to create outrage - replace the image Google is referencing as Churchill with a copy of that blank placeholder image and thus when Google next crawls the website it will update the image to be its default blank placeholder.

But the most likely explanation is the simplest. Since the criticism of Churchill has had a spotlight shone on it, suddenly people have been taking it upon themselves to research the topic. And where do most people do their research, the Internet.

This will have caused a huge traffic spike to most Churchill related websites meaning that their servers became overloaded and would have either very slow or even failing to respond to a lot of a requests. It's also probable that a lot of servers under demand would automatically not return responses to search engine bots to increase the service being given to the human visitors. They will also prioritise text information over images as images take up far more server resources and bandwidth to return.

Thus when Google's image spider went to do its periodic check on the Churchill image, it probably 404ed. On its own this wouldn't be an issue, but it would have happened multiple times, and this is probably an unprecedented event regarding such a famous individual but the consequence was that the algorithm therefore removed the image because it repeatedly failed to fetch.

Yeah I know now someone just happened to notice his photgraph had been removed whilst browsing through a list of British prime ministers and thought the worse, I didn't check myself at the time, I was just over reliant on the initial source.

[F1 MERCENARY]

Since you're insinuating me… I'll remind you that I said I did speak up but no one wanted to hear it/me.
You don't get to label anyone a racist or racist apologist because they ALSO stated that while they fully support BLM, the also feel ALL lives matter.
I've been subject to the same type of treatment as black men but have been lucky thus far it hasn't escalated to that degree, but the next time… Who knows.
It's a reality some of us live with.

This was published in 2016 and it's been spoken about at length but as with the black populous, our cries also fall on deaf ears.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/bla ... -last-week

Educate yourself before assuming that others haven't spoken up.

Still don't see the point of your reply, if you feel All lives matter all well and good.

Dylan Roof went into a church and murdered people was still armed when he was tracked down he was arrested and got burger king for lunch.

So all lives would matter when black lives matter, if latinx want to start a campaign as well no one would stop them.

Since you're insinuating me… I'll remind you that I said I did speak up but no one wanted to hear it/me.
You don't get to label anyone a racist or racist apologist because they ALSO stated that while they fully support BLM, the also feel ALL lives matter.
I've been subject to the same type of treatment as black men but have been lucky thus far it hasn't escalated to that degree, but the next time… Who knows.
It's a reality some of us live with.

This was published in 2016 and it's been spoken about at length but as with the black populous, our cries also fall on deaf ears.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/bla ... -last-week

Educate yourself before assuming that others haven't spoken up.

Still don't see the point of your reply, if you feel All lives matter all well and good.

Dylan Roof went into a church and murdered people was still armed when he was tracked down he was arrested and got burger king for lunch.

So all lives would matter when black lives matter, if latinx want to start a campaign as well no one would stop them.

The point is that unlike you seemingly, I've lived with this as a significant concern my whole life and you and countless MILLIONS of others are JUST NOW championing a cause for equal treatment for all, most especially black people, and it's really annoying. Where were all you millions of folks who are just now coming out of the woodworks to champion this cause??!?!

The media honed in on this George Floyd case in order to take the focus away from the Pandemic so that countries and cities around the globe can re-open their commerce in order to get their revenue streams bringing in money. It's a strategic global move by the greedy, and people like you bought into it hook, line and sinker. That it was an unnecessarily senseless tragic injustice is inarguable and downright inexcusable.

HOWEVER… NEWSFLASH!

Millions of us have been pleading to be heard for decades upon decades BECAUSE this has been going on for so long and no one really paid attention to IT, or US, and would just let our cries fall by the wayside like they always have. The mentality being, if they ignore us long enough we'll get tired and go away.

So spare me if I take your fresh personal overzealous crusade with a grain of salt. I'm glad you're now feeling impassioned about it, but it doesn't give you, nor anyone else the right to label others who've been waiting for this kind of awareness (in regards to how police abuse their power against ALL minorities, most specifically towards black and hispanic) to become mainstream. Let's see where you and others like you who are just itching to tell us how it is, are in a year or two on this subject. The bandwagon starts only a few thousand yards back, but the real line starts waaaaaaaay back there.

[pokerman]

Since you're insinuating me… I'll remind you that I said I did speak up but no one wanted to hear it/me.
You don't get to label anyone a racist or racist apologist because they ALSO stated that while they fully support BLM, the also feel ALL lives matter.
I've been subject to the same type of treatment as black men but have been lucky thus far it hasn't escalated to that degree, but the next time… Who knows.
It's a reality some of us live with.

This was published in 2016 and it's been spoken about at length but as with the black populous, our cries also fall on deaf ears.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/bla ... -last-week

Educate yourself before assuming that others haven't spoken up.

Still don't see the point of your reply, if you feel All lives matter all well and good.

Dylan Roof went into a church and murdered people was still armed when he was tracked down he was arrested and got burger king for lunch.

So all lives would matter when black lives matter, if latinx want to start a campaign as well no one would stop them.

Since you're insinuating me… I'll remind you that I said I did speak up but no one wanted to hear it/me.
You don't get to label anyone a racist or racist apologist because they ALSO stated that while they fully support BLM, the also feel ALL lives matter.
I've been subject to the same type of treatment as black men but have been lucky thus far it hasn't escalated to that degree, but the next time… Who knows.
It's a reality some of us live with.

This was published in 2016 and it's been spoken about at length but as with the black populous, our cries also fall on deaf ears.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/bla ... -last-week

Educate yourself before assuming that others haven't spoken up.

Still don't see the point of your reply, if you feel All lives matter all well and good.

Dylan Roof went into a church and murdered people was still armed when he was tracked down he was arrested and got burger king for lunch.

So all lives would matter when black lives matter, if latinx want to start a campaign as well no one would stop them.

The point is that unlike you seemingly, I've lived with this as a significant concern my whole life and you and countless MILLIONS of others are JUST NOW championing a cause for equal treatment for all, most especially black people, and it's really annoying. Where were all you millions of folks who are just now coming out of the woodworks to champion this cause??!?!

The media honed in on this George Floyd case in order to take the focus away from the Pandemic so that countries and cities around the globe can re-open their commerce in order to get their revenue streams bringing in money. It's a strategic global move by the greedy, and people like you bought into it hook, line and sinker. That it was an unnecessarily senseless tragic injustice is inarguable and downright inexcusable.

HOWEVER… NEWSFLASH!

Millions of us have been pleading to be heard for decades upon decades BECAUSE this has been going on for so long and no one really paid attention to IT, or US, and would just let our cries fall by the wayside like they always have. The mentality being, if they ignore us long enough we'll get tired and go away.

So spare me if I take your fresh personal overzealous crusade with a grain of salt. I'm glad you're now feeling impassioned about it, but it doesn't give you, nor anyone else the right to label others who've been waiting for this kind of awareness (in regards to how police abuse their power against ALL minorities, most specifically towards black and hispanic) to become mainstream. Let's see where you and others like you who are just itching to tell us how it is, are in a year or two on this subject. The bandwagon starts only a few thousand yards back, but the real line starts waaaaaaaay back there.

Very interesting take on what happened.

[Jezza13]

Black Lives Matter to me is a movement to raises awareness to the police brutality and the fact it so often results in black men and women being killed by the police. It doesn't mean that not all lives matter. Of course they do. Its message is meant for cops to just stop killing black people but also stop killing all people as well.

And in my mind this is the problem.

One of the most vital components in a movement for change such as BLM is clarity of message. A message that easily & plainly communicates your purpose. A message that leaves very little room for interpretation. A messages that reflects what you want so you can get as many people on board as possible.

The fact that there's so much debate around the actual meaning of the BLM mantra says to me the message is unclear, ambiguous, divisive & wrong. Does the term BLM mean BLM or doesn't it? Does it mean the only BLM when it comes to addressing police brutality or does it really mean ALM? What denotes the term "brutality"? Is every instance of police violence against black people a case of disproportionate brutality? If not, then what are the numbers & what are the numbers when compared to other races.

What about people like Tony Timpo & Justine Damond. What about people like F1Merc who are not black but have a story to tell. Do they not matter too or are our concerns not really around police brutality but simply how it's dished out disproportionately by race?

If these people had come out & protested against police brutality against ALL races, including black people, there'd be no argument regarding it's mission statement & people like me would be 100% behind the cause. Instead, people like me now stand on the sidelines refusing to pledge allegiance to the cause because we feel that we should be fighting the fight for ALL people & for that, in true fascist form of "You're either with us or against us & don't question the movement" we pay the price of, like some here have done, being branded a racist or at the very least a racist apologist, which only serves to drive us further away.