F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

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Option or Prime
Posts: 1975
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F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Post by Option or Prime »

MOD EDIT - This discussion has been split off from the 2020 calendar thread to allow civil discussion on the subject and to avoid that thread becoming off-topic


I have to say, I'm a bit confused with a number of US members on this forum that nobody has posted any sort of comment or started a thread on the death, now officially murder of George Floyd and the subsequent protests in Minneapolis and other parts of the US.

As a Brit I am personally appalled at the fact it happened, the delay in charging the police officer and Donald Trumps response. I note no condemnation of attacks on the press. Even football (soccer) in the UK recognises the injustice.

Is it because you are so used to seeing racist acts by your police.

I also noticed that the only reason that F1 made a statement was because of Lewis Hamiltons criticism.Lewis Hamiltons criticism.

Shame the other so called 'Greats' of F1 sport are too wound up in their own little world to show a little leadership!

Herb
Posts: 2385
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by Herb »

Option or Prime wrote:I have to say, I'm a bit confused with a number of US members on this forum that nobody has posted any sort of comment or started a thread on the death, now officially murder of George Floyd and the subsequent protests in Minneapolis and other parts of the US.

As a Brit I am personally appalled at the fact it happened, the delay in charging the police officer and Donald Trumps response. I note no condemnation of attacks on the press. Even football (soccer) in the UK recognises the injustice.

Is it because you are so used to seeing racist acts by your police.

I also noticed that the only reason that F1 made a statement was because of Lewis Hamiltons criticism.Lewis Hamiltons criticism.

Shame the other so called 'Greats' of F1 sport are too wound up in their own little world to show a little leadership!

Whilst I agree with you, it's a bit off topic for this thread. Maybe worth it's own?











Back on topic, Mexico is aiming for the 1st of November. That would tick off a 2nd continent.

Option or Prime
Posts: 1975
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:50 am
Location: UK

Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by Option or Prime »

Herb wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:I have to say, I'm a bit confused with a number of US members on this forum that nobody has posted any sort of comment or started a thread on the death, now officially murder of George Floyd and the subsequent protests in Minneapolis and other parts of the US.

As a Brit I am personally appalled at the fact it happened, the delay in charging the police officer and Donald Trumps response. I note no condemnation of attacks on the press. Even football (soccer) in the UK recognises the injustice.

Is it because you are so used to seeing racist acts by your police.

I also noticed that the only reason that F1 made a statement was because of Lewis Hamiltons criticism.Lewis Hamiltons criticism.

Shame the other so called 'Greats' of F1 sport are too wound up in their own little world to show a little leadership!

Whilst I agree with you, it's a bit off topic for this thread. Maybe worth it's own?











Back on topic, Mexico is aiming for the 1st of November. That would tick off a 2nd continent.
Prepared to concede that but my reasoning is that is a very good reason for not going the the US to race F1. Can you have a Grand Prix with the National Guard on the streets?

Given Lewis Hamiltons statements on the matter would he go? If he did would he be safe? F1 have now backed his comments, where does that put the sport.

I'm happy for the mods to move these posts but I do think these comments are very relevant to the thread.

pokerman
Posts: 35655
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by pokerman »

Option or Prime wrote:
Herb wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:I have to say, I'm a bit confused with a number of US members on this forum that nobody has posted any sort of comment or started a thread on the death, now officially murder of George Floyd and the subsequent protests in Minneapolis and other parts of the US.

As a Brit I am personally appalled at the fact it happened, the delay in charging the police officer and Donald Trumps response. I note no condemnation of attacks on the press. Even football (soccer) in the UK recognises the injustice.

Is it because you are so used to seeing racist acts by your police.

I also noticed that the only reason that F1 made a statement was because of Lewis Hamiltons criticism.Lewis Hamiltons criticism.

Shame the other so called 'Greats' of F1 sport are too wound up in their own little world to show a little leadership!

Whilst I agree with you, it's a bit off topic for this thread. Maybe worth it's own?











Back on topic, Mexico is aiming for the 1st of November. That would tick off a 2nd continent.
Prepared to concede that but my reasoning is that is a very good reason for not going the the US to race F1. Can you have a Grand Prix with the National Guard on the streets?

Given Lewis Hamiltons statements on the matter would he go? If he did would he be safe? F1 have now backed his comments, where does that put the sport.

I'm happy for the mods to move these posts but I do think these comments are very relevant to the thread.
F1 goes to much worse places like China etc, just saying.
Lewis Hamilton #44

World Drivers Titles: 7 (1st)
Grand Prix Wins: 95 (1st)
Pole Positions: 98 (1st)
Podiums: 164 (1st)


PF1 Pick 10 Competition
2014: Champion

Siao7
Posts: 8749
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am

Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by Siao7 »

pokerman wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Herb wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:I have to say, I'm a bit confused with a number of US members on this forum that nobody has posted any sort of comment or started a thread on the death, now officially murder of George Floyd and the subsequent protests in Minneapolis and other parts of the US.

As a Brit I am personally appalled at the fact it happened, the delay in charging the police officer and Donald Trumps response. I note no condemnation of attacks on the press. Even football (soccer) in the UK recognises the injustice.

Is it because you are so used to seeing racist acts by your police.

I also noticed that the only reason that F1 made a statement was because of Lewis Hamiltons criticism.Lewis Hamiltons criticism.

Shame the other so called 'Greats' of F1 sport are too wound up in their own little world to show a little leadership!

Whilst I agree with you, it's a bit off topic for this thread. Maybe worth it's own?











Back on topic, Mexico is aiming for the 1st of November. That would tick off a 2nd continent.
Prepared to concede that but my reasoning is that is a very good reason for not going the the US to race F1. Can you have a Grand Prix with the National Guard on the streets?

Given Lewis Hamiltons statements on the matter would he go? If he did would he be safe? F1 have now backed his comments, where does that put the sport.

I'm happy for the mods to move these posts but I do think these comments are very relevant to the thread.
F1 goes to much worse places like China etc, just saying.
How is it worse?

pokerman
Posts: 35655
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by pokerman »

Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Herb wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:I have to say, I'm a bit confused with a number of US members on this forum that nobody has posted any sort of comment or started a thread on the death, now officially murder of George Floyd and the subsequent protests in Minneapolis and other parts of the US.

As a Brit I am personally appalled at the fact it happened, the delay in charging the police officer and Donald Trumps response. I note no condemnation of attacks on the press. Even football (soccer) in the UK recognises the injustice.

Is it because you are so used to seeing racist acts by your police.

I also noticed that the only reason that F1 made a statement was because of Lewis Hamiltons criticism.Lewis Hamiltons criticism.

Shame the other so called 'Greats' of F1 sport are too wound up in their own little world to show a little leadership!

Whilst I agree with you, it's a bit off topic for this thread. Maybe worth it's own?











Back on topic, Mexico is aiming for the 1st of November. That would tick off a 2nd continent.
Prepared to concede that but my reasoning is that is a very good reason for not going the the US to race F1. Can you have a Grand Prix with the National Guard on the streets?

Given Lewis Hamiltons statements on the matter would he go? If he did would he be safe? F1 have now backed his comments, where does that put the sport.

I'm happy for the mods to move these posts but I do think these comments are very relevant to the thread.
F1 goes to much worse places like China etc, just saying.
How is it worse?
Mass killings isn't worse if we are talking about not going somewhere on moral grounds?

As already being said they are rioting in the cities so how does that affect F1 and in particular why would Hamilton be at risk?
Lewis Hamilton #44

World Drivers Titles: 7 (1st)
Grand Prix Wins: 95 (1st)
Pole Positions: 98 (1st)
Podiums: 164 (1st)


PF1 Pick 10 Competition
2014: Champion

mikeyg123
Posts: 18072
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm

Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by mikeyg123 »

Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Herb wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:I have to say, I'm a bit confused with a number of US members on this forum that nobody has posted any sort of comment or started a thread on the death, now officially murder of George Floyd and the subsequent protests in Minneapolis and other parts of the US.

As a Brit I am personally appalled at the fact it happened, the delay in charging the police officer and Donald Trumps response. I note no condemnation of attacks on the press. Even football (soccer) in the UK recognises the injustice.

Is it because you are so used to seeing racist acts by your police.

I also noticed that the only reason that F1 made a statement was because of Lewis Hamiltons criticism.Lewis Hamiltons criticism.

Shame the other so called 'Greats' of F1 sport are too wound up in their own little world to show a little leadership!

Whilst I agree with you, it's a bit off topic for this thread. Maybe worth it's own?











Back on topic, Mexico is aiming for the 1st of November. That would tick off a 2nd continent.
Prepared to concede that but my reasoning is that is a very good reason for not going the the US to race F1. Can you have a Grand Prix with the National Guard on the streets?

Given Lewis Hamiltons statements on the matter would he go? If he did would he be safe? F1 have now backed his comments, where does that put the sport.

I'm happy for the mods to move these posts but I do think these comments are very relevant to the thread.
F1 goes to much worse places like China etc, just saying.
How is it worse?
I don't want to drag this off topic so won't go into detail but Racism in China is awful.

For a start they are reported to be currently holding about 1 million Uyghur Muslims in "re-education" camps.

It's way worse.

Siao7
Posts: 8749
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am

Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by Siao7 »

pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Herb wrote:

Whilst I agree with you, it's a bit off topic for this thread. Maybe worth it's own?











Back on topic, Mexico is aiming for the 1st of November. That would tick off a 2nd continent.
Prepared to concede that but my reasoning is that is a very good reason for not going the the US to race F1. Can you have a Grand Prix with the National Guard on the streets?

Given Lewis Hamiltons statements on the matter would he go? If he did would he be safe? F1 have now backed his comments, where does that put the sport.

I'm happy for the mods to move these posts but I do think these comments are very relevant to the thread.
F1 goes to much worse places like China etc, just saying.
How is it worse?
Mass killings isn't worse if we are talking about not going somewhere on moral grounds?

As already being said they are rioting in the cities so how does that affect F1 and in particular why would Hamilton be at risk?
I am confused a bit, what mass killings? I wasn't trying to say that China hasn't got some dirty laundry, but I think we had this conversation in here before, a lot of countries in the calendar have some skeleton in the closet.

Siao7
Posts: 8749
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am

Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by Siao7 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Herb wrote:

Whilst I agree with you, it's a bit off topic for this thread. Maybe worth it's own?











Back on topic, Mexico is aiming for the 1st of November. That would tick off a 2nd continent.
Prepared to concede that but my reasoning is that is a very good reason for not going the the US to race F1. Can you have a Grand Prix with the National Guard on the streets?

Given Lewis Hamiltons statements on the matter would he go? If he did would he be safe? F1 have now backed his comments, where does that put the sport.

I'm happy for the mods to move these posts but I do think these comments are very relevant to the thread.
F1 goes to much worse places like China etc, just saying.
How is it worse?
I don't want to drag this off topic so won't go into detail but Racism in China is awful.

For a start they are reported to be currently holding about 1 million Uyghur Muslims in "re-education" camps.

It's way worse.
Yeah, I was in a hurry and didn't properly explain, I was wondering what mass killings. Are we talking about now or in the past? Because I do not think I can remember anything like a mass killing recently. And if was are talking about the past, then we should build a track on water, as every country has some sort of (nasty) history...

Option or Prime
Posts: 1975
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:50 am
Location: UK

Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by Option or Prime »

pokerman wrote:
As already being said they are rioting in the cities so how does that affect F1 and in particular why would Hamilton be at risk?
A black man driving a car fast in the USA, I'd think the risk was obvious!

Seriously though, and I take the point made on China, can F1 go to the States or China for that matter this year, Covid-19 needs to be at least predictable.
How can the owners showcase F1 in the US with civil unrest a strong possibility. This year I can see the WDC needing to account for disruption for whatever reason.

pc27b
Posts: 786
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Location: illinois

Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by pc27b »

Option or Prime wrote:
pokerman wrote:
As already being said they are rioting in the cities so how does that affect F1 and in particular why would Hamilton be at risk?
A black man driving a car fast in the USA, I'd think the risk was obvious!

Seriously though, and I take the point made on China, can F1 go to the States or China for that matter this year, Covid-19 needs to be at least predictable.

"" How can the owners showcase F1 in the US with civil unrest a strong possibility. This year I can see the WDC needing to account for disruption for whatever reason.
""


come on. civil unrest in October is far from a "strong possibility" would lewis hamilton even be safe in the usa ? lol lewis hamilton shook hands with putin

if he, or any other f1 drivers feel unsafe going to the states, they can stay with me, it'll be fine, and i will show him some regular, normal spots here. not a fancy 5 star hotel, just normalcy :)
you seem to have a problem with the states option or prime, carry on.

as far as the released schedule....not that excited about back to back races at the same track. call em gimmicks, so what, i think something different needs done, with same track, back to back races

Option or Prime
Posts: 1975
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:50 am
Location: UK

Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by Option or Prime »

pc27b wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
pokerman wrote:
As already being said they are rioting in the cities so how does that affect F1 and in particular why would Hamilton be at risk?
A black man driving a car fast in the USA, I'd think the risk was obvious!

Seriously though, and I take the point made on China, can F1 go to the States or China for that matter this year, Covid-19 needs to be at least predictable.

"" How can the owners showcase F1 in the US with civil unrest a strong possibility. This year I can see the WDC needing to account for disruption for whatever reason.
""


come on. civil unrest in October is far from a "strong possibility" would lewis hamilton even be safe in the usa ? lol lewis hamilton shook hands with putin

if he, or any other f1 drivers feel unsafe going to the states, they can stay with me, it'll be fine, and i will show him some regular, normal spots here. not a fancy 5 star hotel, just normalcy :)
you seem to have a problem with the states option or prime, carry on.

as far as the released schedule....not that excited about back to back races at the same track. call em gimmicks, so what, i think something different needs done, with same track, back to back races
No not really a problem, I do have a problem with white US police killing black people though and getting reinstated 6 month later after resigning, or not even being charged!
Personally I think we all should.

My biggest concern would be Covid-19, if and its a big if, because I think the virus is fading away, but if it were to have a second wave the autumn/fall would be when it would kick back in. There is a lot of time for many things to change before then!

User avatar
Seanie
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Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 11:36 am

Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by Seanie »

Yeah, the US GP is months away. Protests are unlikely to continue at this level for that long.

And yeah, F1 is notorious for remaining politically impartial. If they make a stance on racing in America, they'll be left open to question why they race in China, Russia, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi
Warning: The above post may contain sarcasm.

pokerman
Posts: 35655
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by pokerman »

Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Option or Prime wrote: Prepared to concede that but my reasoning is that is a very good reason for not going the the US to race F1. Can you have a Grand Prix with the National Guard on the streets?

Given Lewis Hamiltons statements on the matter would he go? If he did would he be safe? F1 have now backed his comments, where does that put the sport.

I'm happy for the mods to move these posts but I do think these comments are very relevant to the thread.
F1 goes to much worse places like China etc, just saying.
How is it worse?
Mass killings isn't worse if we are talking about not going somewhere on moral grounds?

As already being said they are rioting in the cities so how does that affect F1 and in particular why would Hamilton be at risk?
I am confused a bit, what mass killings? I wasn't trying to say that China hasn't got some dirty laundry, but I think we had this conversation in here before, a lot of countries in the calendar have some skeleton in the closet.
Exactly so why would F1 boycott America?
Lewis Hamilton #44

World Drivers Titles: 7 (1st)
Grand Prix Wins: 95 (1st)
Pole Positions: 98 (1st)
Podiums: 164 (1st)


PF1 Pick 10 Competition
2014: Champion

pokerman
Posts: 35655
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by pokerman »

Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Option or Prime wrote: Prepared to concede that but my reasoning is that is a very good reason for not going the the US to race F1. Can you have a Grand Prix with the National Guard on the streets?

Given Lewis Hamiltons statements on the matter would he go? If he did would he be safe? F1 have now backed his comments, where does that put the sport.

I'm happy for the mods to move these posts but I do think these comments are very relevant to the thread.
F1 goes to much worse places like China etc, just saying.
How is it worse?
I don't want to drag this off topic so won't go into detail but Racism in China is awful.

For a start they are reported to be currently holding about 1 million Uyghur Muslims in "re-education" camps.

It's way worse.
Yeah, I was in a hurry and didn't properly explain, I was wondering what mass killings. Are we talking about now or in the past? Because I do not think I can remember anything like a mass killing recently. And if was are talking about the past, then we should build a track on water, as every country has some sort of (nasty) history...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 17911.html
Lewis Hamilton #44

World Drivers Titles: 7 (1st)
Grand Prix Wins: 95 (1st)
Pole Positions: 98 (1st)
Podiums: 164 (1st)


PF1 Pick 10 Competition
2014: Champion

pokerman
Posts: 35655
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by pokerman »

Option or Prime wrote:
pokerman wrote:
As already being said they are rioting in the cities so how does that affect F1 and in particular why would Hamilton be at risk?
A black man driving a car fast in the USA, I'd think the risk was obvious!

Seriously though, and I take the point made on China, can F1 go to the States or China for that matter this year, Covid-19 needs to be at least predictable.
How can the owners showcase F1 in the US with civil unrest a strong possibility. This year I can see the WDC needing to account for disruption for whatever reason.
On a closed track, what's so obvious?

You do know that Hamilton lives in the States?
Lewis Hamilton #44

World Drivers Titles: 7 (1st)
Grand Prix Wins: 95 (1st)
Pole Positions: 98 (1st)
Podiums: 164 (1st)


PF1 Pick 10 Competition
2014: Champion

Option or Prime
Posts: 1975
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:50 am
Location: UK

Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by Option or Prime »

pokerman wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
pokerman wrote:
As already being said they are rioting in the cities so how does that affect F1 and in particular why would Hamilton be at risk?
A black man driving a car fast in the USA, I'd think the risk was obvious!

Seriously though, and I take the point made on China, can F1 go to the States or China for that matter this year, Covid-19 needs to be at least predictable.
How can the owners showcase F1 in the US with civil unrest a strong possibility. This year I can see the WDC needing to account for disruption for whatever reason.
On a closed track, what's so obvious?
You are being silly now, its a joke, been saving the China organ story for a good moment then its dated Tuesday 24 September 2019. It is a disgusting story though, has it been proven? Why has this story died?

Anyway the fact is can you guarantee the US GP will go ahead?

Covid-19 (the return) could be causing a problem and its just before the US election so no doubt emotions will be high. As a Brit looking in the USA, China, Brazil and Russia look in turmoil. I'm not suggesting the UK is any better either just pointing out a championship this season looks fraught with problems.

The only races so far confirmed are in Europe let's remember.

mikeyg123
Posts: 18072
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm

Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by mikeyg123 »

I think it would be a hard sell for F1 to say they aren't going to the States on ethical grounds and then a few months later announce the Saudi Arabian GP for 2022 and beyond.

We might not go because of Covid though.

We will definitely get an Asia round as I would bet my bottom dollar Abu Dhabi happens. The Americas may be more difficult. If we don't get to go to three continents we will still have a drivers champion. He just won't be officially titled the World drivers champion.

Option or Prime
Posts: 1975
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:50 am
Location: UK

Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by Option or Prime »

There will be some desperation to get something on the American continent, I agree Covid-19 is the biggest issue but we have seen massive developments over the last 3 months. There could even be a vaccine by then. Astra Zeneca are trialling the Oxford vaccine in Brazil.

I also agree an F1 boycott is unlikely but I was indicating that it was Lewis Hamilton that was the most outraged about George Floyd's killing. That might lead to a boycott, especially if the acquittal of the officers was announced or charges were dropped in the weeks prior to the election.

The Minnesota Attorney General suspect the outcome of the trial might not be conviction!

pokerman
Posts: 35655
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by pokerman »

Option or Prime wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
pokerman wrote:
As already being said they are rioting in the cities so how does that affect F1 and in particular why would Hamilton be at risk?
A black man driving a car fast in the USA, I'd think the risk was obvious!

Seriously though, and I take the point made on China, can F1 go to the States or China for that matter this year, Covid-19 needs to be at least predictable.
How can the owners showcase F1 in the US with civil unrest a strong possibility. This year I can see the WDC needing to account for disruption for whatever reason.
On a closed track, what's so obvious?
You are being silly now, its a joke, been saving the China organ story for a good moment then its dated Tuesday 24 September 2019. It is a disgusting story though, has it been proven? Why has this story died?

Anyway the fact is can you guarantee the US GP will go ahead?

Covid-19 (the return) could be causing a problem and its just before the US election so no doubt emotions will be high. As a Brit looking in the USA, China, Brazil and Russia look in turmoil. I'm not suggesting the UK is any better either just pointing out a championship this season looks fraught with problems.

The only races so far confirmed are in Europe let's remember.
You couldn't come up with a reason why Hamilton would be at risk so you just made a joke.

I heard about the Chinese organ story recently I merely had to find a source which happens to be a different one to the one I originally saw.

The USA GP being cancelled because of covid the return is different to what you originally said about the riots.
Lewis Hamilton #44

World Drivers Titles: 7 (1st)
Grand Prix Wins: 95 (1st)
Pole Positions: 98 (1st)
Podiums: 164 (1st)


PF1 Pick 10 Competition
2014: Champion

Option or Prime
Posts: 1975
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:50 am
Location: UK

Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by Option or Prime »

pokerman wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
pokerman wrote:
As already being said they are rioting in the cities so how does that affect F1 and in particular why would Hamilton be at risk?
A black man driving a car fast in the USA, I'd think the risk was obvious!

Seriously though, and I take the point made on China, can F1 go to the States or China for that matter this year, Covid-19 needs to be at least predictable.
How can the owners showcase F1 in the US with civil unrest a strong possibility. This year I can see the WDC needing to account for disruption for whatever reason.
On a closed track, what's so obvious?
You are being silly now, its a joke, been saving the China organ story for a good moment then its dated Tuesday 24 September 2019. It is a disgusting story though, has it been proven? Why has this story died?

Anyway the fact is can you guarantee the US GP will go ahead?

Covid-19 (the return) could be causing a problem and its just before the US election so no doubt emotions will be high. As a Brit looking in the USA, China, Brazil and Russia look in turmoil. I'm not suggesting the UK is any better either just pointing out a championship this season looks fraught with problems.

The only races so far confirmed are in Europe let's remember.
You couldn't come up with a reason why Hamilton would be at risk so you just made a joke.

I heard about the Chinese organ story recently I merely had to find a source which happens to be a different one to the one I originally saw.

The USA GP being cancelled because of covid the return is different to what you originally said about the riots.
No, read my post again please it was always light hearted.

I never advocated a boycott of the USA that is made up. I actually said, "Can you have a Grand Prix with the National Guard on the streets?"

At that time Donald Trump was using aggressive rhetoric and saying that the US Army would police American States if requested or not.

Since then the US Army has said it will not do that. It was and is a fair question. I was not promoting a boycott.

I was critical of forum members for seemingly ignoring the killing of George Floyd. Perhaps these incidents are more easily accepted in the US but I personally was shocked and appalled by it.

It has been reported in the UK that after initial opportunist looting most of the protests have been peaceful. Is that not so?

Finally I maintain that pandemic in the US and a president who is seemingly using the army to keep the peace, (now not the case) are perfectly acceptable reasons to question the 2020 calendar.

No offence was meant, it is simply my perception of the situation from the UK.

Siao7
Posts: 8749
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am

Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by Siao7 »

Option or Prime wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
A black man driving a car fast in the USA, I'd think the risk was obvious!

Seriously though, and I take the point made on China, can F1 go to the States or China for that matter this year, Covid-19 needs to be at least predictable.
How can the owners showcase F1 in the US with civil unrest a strong possibility. This year I can see the WDC needing to account for disruption for whatever reason.
On a closed track, what's so obvious?
You are being silly now, its a joke, been saving the China organ story for a good moment then its dated Tuesday 24 September 2019. It is a disgusting story though, has it been proven? Why has this story died?

Anyway the fact is can you guarantee the US GP will go ahead?

Covid-19 (the return) could be causing a problem and its just before the US election so no doubt emotions will be high. As a Brit looking in the USA, China, Brazil and Russia look in turmoil. I'm not suggesting the UK is any better either just pointing out a championship this season looks fraught with problems.

The only races so far confirmed are in Europe let's remember.
You couldn't come up with a reason why Hamilton would be at risk so you just made a joke.

I heard about the Chinese organ story recently I merely had to find a source which happens to be a different one to the one I originally saw.

The USA GP being cancelled because of covid the return is different to what you originally said about the riots.
No, read my post again please it was always light hearted.

I never advocated a boycott of the USA that is made up. I actually said, "Can you have a Grand Prix with the National Guard on the streets?"

At that time Donald Trump was using aggressive rhetoric and saying that the US Army would police American States if requested or not.

Since then the US Army has said it will not do that. It was and is a fair question. I was not promoting a boycott.

I was critical of forum members for seemingly ignoring the killing of George Floyd. Perhaps these incidents are more easily accepted in the US but I personally was shocked and appalled by it.

It has been reported in the UK that after initial opportunist looting most of the protests have been peaceful. Is that not so?

Finally I maintain that pandemic in the US and a president who is seemingly using the army to keep the peace, (now not the case) are perfectly acceptable reasons to question the 2020 calendar.

No offence was meant, it is simply my perception of the situation from the UK.
These things happen in the UK too, we had the 2011 riots because of a man that was shot dead by the police. This was after Silverstone, but I do not think that the British GP would have been cancelled. They did cancel some football games, understandably as London was literally in flames.

The issue I have with this whole story is more with Hamilton's action to call out people. In this era people seem to have to come out and make a statement; if you don't, then you are judged by Twitter. I do not understand why I have to go out in the media and condemn what happened. It is obvious that it was a hideous crime, the people involved need to be thrown in jail and the keys to be thrown in the sea. Very few sane people would go out to defend the actions of these policemen. But I do not feel the need to go and demonstrate to the world that I am appalled. Let's say I am more of a Jordan than an Ali...

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Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by pokerman »

Option or Prime wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Option or Prime wrote: A black man driving a car fast in the USA, I'd think the risk was obvious!

Seriously though, and I take the point made on China, can F1 go to the States or China for that matter this year, Covid-19 needs to be at least predictable.
How can the owners showcase F1 in the US with civil unrest a strong possibility. This year I can see the WDC needing to account for disruption for whatever reason.
On a closed track, what's so obvious?
You are being silly now, its a joke, been saving the China organ story for a good moment then its dated Tuesday 24 September 2019. It is a disgusting story though, has it been proven? Why has this story died?

Anyway the fact is can you guarantee the US GP will go ahead?

Covid-19 (the return) could be causing a problem and its just before the US election so no doubt emotions will be high. As a Brit looking in the USA, China, Brazil and Russia look in turmoil. I'm not suggesting the UK is any better either just pointing out a championship this season looks fraught with problems.

The only races so far confirmed are in Europe let's remember.
You couldn't come up with a reason why Hamilton would be at risk so you just made a joke.

I heard about the Chinese organ story recently I merely had to find a source which happens to be a different one to the one I originally saw.

The USA GP being cancelled because of covid the return is different to what you originally said about the riots.
No, read my post again please it was always light hearted.

I never advocated a boycott of the USA that is made up. I actually said, "Can you have a Grand Prix with the National Guard on the streets?"

At that time Donald Trump was using aggressive rhetoric and saying that the US Army would police American States if requested or not.

Since then the US Army has said it will not do that. It was and is a fair question. I was not promoting a boycott.

I was critical of forum members for seemingly ignoring the killing of George Floyd. Perhaps these incidents are more easily accepted in the US but I personally was shocked and appalled by it.

It has been reported in the UK that after initial opportunist looting most of the protests have been peaceful. Is that not so?

Finally I maintain that pandemic in the US and a president who is seemingly using the army to keep the peace, (now not the case) are perfectly acceptable reasons to question the 2020 calendar.

No offence was meant, it is simply my perception of the situation from the UK.
So there's been looting in the UK as well because of what happened in another country, it's hard to be sympathetic with a cause on the back of such criminality, I saw some police officers get attacked as well.
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Rockie
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Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by Rockie »

pokerman wrote: So there's been looting in the UK as well because of what happened in another country, it's hard to be sympathetic with a cause on the back of such criminality, I saw some police officers get attacked as well.
So a fellow human being killed due to the colour of his skin recorded live and you saw that makes it hard for you to support a cause due to a few anarchists doing what they do best take advantage of the situation.

This kind of logic is what racists and racist apologists use in denigrating the cause, this is akin to the people who scream all lives matter when there is a protest of an unjust killing of a black man and black lives matter protest, absolutely disgusting take!

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Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by Option or Prime »

Yes, I'd support that view strongly Rockie, that really is a perverse piece of logic Pokerman. In fact its not logical at all.

Are you saying that you can't support the protest against George Floyds killing (mostly peaceful protests) because in another country a criminal used it as an excuse to commit a burglary?

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Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by JN23 »

Rockie wrote:
pokerman wrote: So there's been looting in the UK as well because of what happened in another country, it's hard to be sympathetic with a cause on the back of such criminality, I saw some police officers get attacked as well.
So a fellow human being killed due to the colour of his skin recorded live and you saw that makes it hard for you to support a cause due to a few anarchists doing what they do best take advantage of the situation.

This kind of logic is what racists and racist apologists use in denigrating the cause, this is akin to the people who scream all lives matter when there is a protest of an unjust killing of a black man and black lives matter protest, absolutely disgusting take!
:thumbup:

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Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Post by Siao7 »

Thanks Mod.

Now I think there are two different things. Supporting the protest is one side, everyone understands what happened and why people are protesting. Also good news, the officers are facing trials on murder charges. But when things turn violent, then that is not a peaceful protest anymore. They have something like 6+ dead people in the protests so far, with people and police officers being shot alike... There are also the opportunistic looting that happens in these cases, but this is a different matter.

I'll go on a limb that this is the part that Poker won't support, rightly so if you see some of the images on this article: https://www.startribune.com/protests-bu ... 869672/#21.

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Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Post by Zazu »

Lots of very bad things happen everyday all round the world. People will soon be bored of the coverage and all the media will be focused on something else by the time we get to Austria.

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Alienturnedhuman
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Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

Regarding the protests and the escalation of looting and violence, there are several things that need to be addressed.

The first is that these protests have been attended by tens of thousands - if not more - and the vast vast majority of those have been conducted peacefully, and what is seen on TV are the most extreme cases because they make the best TV, and if you are seeing the same brief few seconds of the same handful of incidences that is not representative of the conduct of the vast majority of people.

These are not a collective mind, these are not being run by a central authority that dictates to people how to behave. So when a small group of people start rioting and looting, it is in no way reasonable to hold the protest movement null and void- or the ideology accountable - in the same way as an organisation should be held accountable for the actions of its employees (such as the police force), as organisations select, train and vet their employees.

All of this is true even if those conducting the violence are all genuine protestors. Unfortunately it seems that this is far from the case, as there has been many documented incidences of people not affiliated with the movement (one who even looks like an undercover law enforcement officer) smashing windows in the background of peaceful protests. There has been documented videos clearly showing white people shoving black protestors into police officers to trigger the officer to beat them.

This is because it’s known that arson and rioting is a good way to turn the middle ground from softly supporting the protestors to being firmly against them.

“I would support them if they protested peacefully”


Well - as many have pointed out by now - they tried protesting peacefully, the whole taking a knee thing, and that got banned.

An American friend of mine shared a post that essentially said that racism has become part of America’s identity because people are condemning protests against racism as being anti American. That was highlighted with the banning of the taking a knee and it’s resulted in where we are today.

As for how this ties in with Hamilton, both being British and an F1 driver, well neither of those disqualify him from speaking out.

First,while it is true that racism is not as big an issue in the U.K. as in the USA, it’s still an issue and a bigger one than people are prepared to admit. Post Brexit racism has spiked, but even when the U.K. was at its most accepting there were still problems.

If the defence is “We don’t have as much racism as in America” or “We are one of the least racist countries in Europe” then what you are actually saying is the level of racism that exists is fine. If you are truly against racism then you should support the efforts to eradicate it. And the best ways most people can help fight racism don’t even cost anything. They are a) don’t be a racist and b) call out people who are racist

As an F1 driver, Hamilton is equally entitled to speak out. F1 is a global sport with a global platform and people look up to these drivers.

"But why isn’t he speaking out against China or Bahrain?! Hypocrite!"


No. For one thing it is not a racism he has personally faced in his life, it’s also an issue he probably won’t be as informed about. But more significantly,China and Bahrain are not countries that have free speech. That’s also not a good thing and it’s an issue that needs to be addressed too, but speaking out against those atrocities will achieve nothing.

The USA meanwhile is a Western ally that purports to uphold the basic values that other Western cultures hold in high regard. These include free speech, civil rights and not being oppressed by your government.

On these issues America is fundamentally failing its black citizens, and with Liberty being an American company it only underlined the issue why It is appropriate for people in F1 to speak out about it.



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Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Post by Siao7 »

Alien, while I like your message a lot, but I have a few notes.

- I do not think that anyone said that it was all of the protesters that caused troubles. Most of the protests were indeed peaceful, just that you always have the opportunists that cause trouble and loot. And they are mostly the youth, which is somewhat normal and also sad

- I haven't seen or felt any racism (apart from jokes between friends, as bad taste as it is) in the UK. Not directly anyway, although in the 2009 recession it was all the foreigners that were let go from the place I was working back then. Could be a coincidence though! I do have friends who experienced it though post-Brexit, for example my German friend (married to an Englishman) got told of by some old guy on the street about taking the UK back and how they fought the war against the Germans, etc. It really did bring the worst out of a lot of people this Brexit kerfuffle

- Hamilton speaking out as an icon, as a decent person and also a black man is absolutely fine. It is something that personally strikes a note with him, but telling off others that didn't is what I objected to. You see what happened with the New York Knicks owner. If you don't get out and support this then you are crucified in the world of Twitter. I just find this wrong, for example I do not have any social media accounts except Facebook (for specific reasons like groups I follow and meet up), so I don't post things. That does not mean that I condone racism in any form. And some people are really introverts, to be called out like this is a bit unfair. I kind of agree with the Knicks owner myself

- The China and Bahrain thing is something personally I have not heard before, to be accused that he is not speaking out about these causes. And here lies the bigger issue for me. He is not a social warrior, if he speaks out for everything on Earth then he won't have time to do anything else. He just spoke about the thing that personally affected him and kudos for that as he speaks from experience (and not because it is a trend). But where does it stop?

- I also think that the statement that speaking out will achieve nothing is somewhat wrong. The policemen would have gotten away without any charges if there wasn't a huge demonstration, it has happened many times before. Speaking out achieves things. Not always, but "forget it, it won't work" sends out the wrong message, especially for celebrities that want and can make a difference. There are a lot of thing that can be said about some countries, from the human rights point of view, from how they treat women or how China imposed the social credit scheme. The list is long

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Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Post by mikeyg123 »

To try and provide some clarity on the "why isn't he speaking out about Bahrain/China thing"

He isn't getting criticised for speaking out about racism in the USA but not Bahrain/China.

What hamilton did was strongly criticize others for not speaking out. I think it's reasonable for people to think this is unfair and to highlight the fact that there are many issues Hamilton himself doesn't speak out on. That's why in that context people would say well what about China, Bahrain etc. Because as he isn't speaking out about those issues that don't effect him it's pretty unfair of him to criticise people for not speaking out about issues that don't effect them.

Basically he wants people to speak out on issues that effect him but not them and hasn't yet seemed willing to do similar. Didn't he stay in the Crown Princes mansion for the 2015 Bahrain Grand Prix?

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Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Post by Siao7 »

mikeyg123 wrote:To try and provide some clarity on the "why isn't he speaking out about Bahrain/China thing"

He isn't getting criticised for speaking out about racism in the USA but not Bahrain/China.

What hamilton did was strongly criticize others for not speaking out. I think it's reasonable for people to think this is unfair and to highlight the fact that there are many issues Hamilton himself doesn't speak out on. That's why in that context people would say well what about China, Bahrain etc. Because as he isn't speaking out about those issues that don't effect him it's pretty unfair of him to criticise people for not speaking out about issues that don't effect them.

Basically he wants people to speak out on issues that effect him but not them and hasn't yet seemed willing to do similar. Didn't he stay in the Crown Princes mansion for the 2015 Bahrain Grand Prix?
Thanks mikeyg123, I got this. And I agreed with this, people only speak out for matters that personally affect them. But not speaking out does not mean that they condone things, that's what I tried to explain

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Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

Siao7 wrote:Alien, while I like your message a lot, but I have a few notes.

- I do not think that anyone said that it was all of the protesters that caused troubles. Most of the protests were indeed peaceful, just that you always have the opportunists that cause trouble and loot. And they are mostly the youth, which is somewhat normal and also sad
I never said that people were saying all the protestors were. I mean, that would be absolutely stupid to even begin to breathe that. However the attitude is that people reject the protests once there is violence by a few, hence why there are white supremacists turning up at the rallies and causing damage, to discredit the movement.

My criticism is this attitude to dismiss the protest of the many based on the actions of a tiny minority, especially when it's questionable how many of the minority are actually behind the cause anyway. Some people genuinely turn up to protests not because they are behind the protest but because they know it will give them the opportunity to riot - this is the case at nearly all organised protests with large numbers.
Siao7 wrote:- I haven't seen or felt any racism (apart from jokes between friends, as bad taste as it is) in the UK. Not directly anyway, although in the 2009 recession it was all the foreigners that were let go from the place I was working back then. Could be a coincidence though! I do have friends who experienced it though post-Brexit, for example my German friend (married to an Englishman) got told of by some old guy on the street about taking the UK back and how they fought the war against the Germans, etc. It really did bring the worst out of a lot of people this Brexit kerfuffle
Right after the Brexit result there were cases of Eastern Europeans having their businesses burned down in the UK.

There were cases of black people (who aren't even members of EU nations or in some cases British born) being shouted at that they would now be "going home", openly in the street by people who felt empowered to no longer withhold their views.

There was the Windrush scandal.

When I worked at a factory of a national company producing food for major UK supermarkets in a town with a high number of immigrants, many of the top managers were openly racist including one who took delight in recounting news of immigrants getting beaten up - and in one case murdered - from the papers.

As recently as 1999 the Metropolitan Police was found to be institutionally racist. Non white people are still orders of magnitude more likely to be stopped and searched by the police.

I do not think that the UK police suffers from anywhere near the same levels of problems as American police, as the American Police force seems to have large numbers of White power members who have started openly identifying on these latest protests - as well as accounts I have heard from friends who have moved to the US and American people who have moved to Europe and talked about the difference in attitudes towards the police.

I also believe that any report of a racist incident would be taken seriously by a UK organisation, especially with any evidence.

But just because the standards are better, just because they are 'not as bad' as most other equivalent countries, does not mean we should sit back and high five each other on how much better a job we are doing. If we truly are pleased that we are doing a relatively good job and have actual pride in our attitude towards tackling racism then we should not shy away from addressing the issues that continue to exist. A competition to have the 'smallest problem with racism' is the same as celebrating having the smallest cancerous tumour.
Siao7 wrote:- Hamilton speaking out as an icon, as a decent person and also a black man is absolutely fine. It is something that personally strikes a note with him, but telling off others that didn't is what I objected to. You see what happened with the New York Knicks owner. If you don't get out and support this then you are crucified in the world of Twitter. I just find this wrong, for example I do not have any social media accounts except Facebook (for specific reasons like groups I follow and meet up), so I don't post things. That does not mean that I condone racism in any form. And some people are really introverts, to be called out like this is a bit unfair. I kind of agree with the Knicks owner myself
Hamilton has spent his entire career since karting as the only black kid in the room. When he made it to F1 he had to put up with openly racist abuse in Spain and Brazil, with fans conducting themselves in overtly unacceptable ways yet not evicted from the track (they were even shown on TV I believe)

I don't believe that was the fact there had not been official statements from everyone, it was the fact that in the face of a clearly egregious event, there hadn't been any comment or reflection at all. He had to be the first person to say something. Because he was the black one.
Siao7 wrote:- The China and Bahrain thing is something personally I have not heard before, to be accused that he is not speaking out about these causes. And here lies the bigger issue for me. He is not a social warrior, if he speaks out for everything on Earth then he won't have time to do anything else. He just spoke about the thing that personally affected him and kudos for that as he speaks from experience (and not because it is a trend). But where does it stop?
There will always be other issues, and using that as a reason to speak out about nothing will mean that nothing ever gets said.
Siao7 wrote:- I also think that the statement that speaking out will achieve nothing is somewhat wrong. The policemen would have gotten away without any charges if there wasn't a huge demonstration, it has happened many times before. Speaking out achieves things. Not always, but "forget it, it won't work" sends out the wrong message, especially for celebrities that want and can make a difference. There are a lot of thing that can be said about some countries, from the human rights point of view, from how they treat women or how China imposed the social credit scheme. The list is long
I'm talking about effectiveness about speaking out against China and Bahrain. Clearly speaking out about issues in America and Europe are productive and that actually validates Hamilton and others making such a noise on their platform about these issues.

China censors its own press and citizens, and it sure as hell does not allow any foreign press critical of China to be shared within its borders. I don't know much about Bahrain's relationship with its press, but even if it uncensored they are unlikely to care much what people think.

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Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Post by Asphalt_World »

We can all talk, and rightly so, about the protests, looting etc, but the simple fact remains that we still live in a world that has an enormous amount of people who hate because of nothing more than someone's skin colour. Add in to this people hating on others because they happen to love someone of the same sex and it's clear that the human race has a long long way to go. So incredibly sad.

Some really interesting points in this thread everyone.
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Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Post by Badgeronimous »

Having lived in the middle east, we play at racism here in the UK compared to there. Yeah, it still exists, but the problem is moving the right way, it's right to call it out. However, we do have a tendency in this country to see racism where there is none, or it is so minor it doesnt matter, whilst ignoring far bigger systematic issues with it - I think that's counter productive.

The UAE is probably the most openly racist and discriminatory place I have ever been, even worse than Saudi - but you need to live there to scratch the underbelly and understand it.

With so many 1st generation groups of immigrants working there, it is impossible not to group people and very difficult not to become a bit racist by the European definition of the word, although it is born usually from frustration and incompetence.

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Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Post by Option or Prime »

Attacks on the police in the course of doing their job are completely wrong but doesn't someone have to make the police force conform to a consistent level.
I don't know if this link with the video will work everywhere but to see a man hit his head on the floor like that and be ignored by about 30 officers with blood pouring from his head is now worldwide, as are the other incidents in that link, including a confusing shooting.

The impression I get is that there are elements of the police force and some of its procedures that are out of control and need immediate revision.

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Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by Johnson »

Rockie wrote:
pokerman wrote: So there's been looting in the UK as well because of what happened in another country, it's hard to be sympathetic with a cause on the back of such criminality, I saw some police officers get attacked as well.
So a fellow human being killed due to the colour of his skin recorded live and you saw that makes it hard for you to support a cause due to a few anarchists doing what they do best take advantage of the situation.

This kind of logic is what racists and racist apologists use in denigrating the cause, this is akin to the people who scream all lives matter when there is a protest of an unjust killing of a black man and black lives matter protest, absolutely disgusting take!
Rockie :thumbup:

Pokerman, the two instances have nothing to do with one another. Some of the most absurd reasoning you can witness.

You’re basically saying, “I don’t support a cause I normally would have because some other people I have never met or have anything to do with rioted in the name of that cause. So I can no longer support that cause” Even though those rioting may not even be genuine with the intention and likely just people looking for trouble like riots generally are.

That’s like saying, I can no longer support Lewis Hamilton because a very tiny portion of his fan base - I don’t agree with there actions.

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Re: F1, Racism & BlackLivesMatter

Post by Siao7 »

Ok, I'll address the relevant ones, the rest I agree with!
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:Alien, while I like your message a lot, but I have a few notes.

- I do not think that anyone said that it was all of the protesters that caused troubles. Most of the protests were indeed peaceful, just that you always have the opportunists that cause trouble and loot. And they are mostly the youth, which is somewhat normal and also sad
I never said that people were saying all the protestors were. I mean, that would be absolutely stupid to even begin to breathe that. However the attitude is that people reject the protests once there is violence by a few, hence why there are white supremacists turning up at the rallies and causing damage, to discredit the movement.

My criticism is this attitude to dismiss the protest of the many based on the actions of a tiny minority, especially when it's questionable how many of the minority are actually behind the cause anyway. Some people genuinely turn up to protests not because they are behind the protest but because they know it will give them the opportunity to riot - this is the case at nearly all organised protests with large numbers.
I think you got me wrong, I didn't accuse you of saying that. I just thought of clearing it up as you originally said it was a point that needed addressing. Which in my view didn't really need addressing as I have not seen anyone saying that all the protesters caused troubles, if you see what I mean. Anyway, we are on the same page, so non-issue really!
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:- I haven't seen or felt any racism (apart from jokes between friends, as bad taste as it is) in the UK. Not directly anyway, although in the 2009 recession it was all the foreigners that were let go from the place I was working back then. Could be a coincidence though! I do have friends who experienced it though post-Brexit, for example my German friend (married to an Englishman) got told of by some old guy on the street about taking the UK back and how they fought the war against the Germans, etc. It really did bring the worst out of a lot of people this Brexit kerfuffle
Right after the Brexit result there were cases of Eastern Europeans having their businesses burned down in the UK.

There were cases of black people (who aren't even members of EU nations or in some cases British born) being shouted at that they would now be "going home", openly in the street by people who felt empowered to no longer withhold their views.

There was the Windrush scandal.

When I worked at a factory of a national company producing food for major UK supermarkets in a town with a high number of immigrants, many of the top managers were openly racist including one who took delight in recounting news of immigrants getting beaten up - and in one case murdered - from the papers.

As recently as 1999 the Metropolitan Police was found to be institutionally racist. Non white people are still orders of magnitude more likely to be stopped and searched by the police.

I do not think that the UK police suffers from anywhere near the same levels of problems as American police, as the American Police force seems to have large numbers of White power members who have started openly identifying on these latest protests - as well as accounts I have heard from friends who have moved to the US and American people who have moved to Europe and talked about the difference in attitudes towards the police.

I also believe that any report of a racist incident would be taken seriously by a UK organisation, especially with any evidence.

But just because the standards are better, just because they are 'not as bad' as most other equivalent countries, does not mean we should sit back and high five each other on how much better a job we are doing. If we truly are pleased that we are doing a relatively good job and have actual pride in our attitude towards tackling racism then we should not shy away from addressing the issues that continue to exist. A competition to have the 'smallest problem with racism' is the same as celebrating having the smallest cancerous tumour.
Yeah, I agree with everything. In the UK it is much better, not that it doesn't exist of course. I (being a foreigner) just haven't had it. Maybe my looks!
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:- Hamilton speaking out as an icon, as a decent person and also a black man is absolutely fine. It is something that personally strikes a note with him, but telling off others that didn't is what I objected to. You see what happened with the New York Knicks owner. If you don't get out and support this then you are crucified in the world of Twitter. I just find this wrong, for example I do not have any social media accounts except Facebook (for specific reasons like groups I follow and meet up), so I don't post things. That does not mean that I condone racism in any form. And some people are really introverts, to be called out like this is a bit unfair. I kind of agree with the Knicks owner myself
Hamilton has spent his entire career since karting as the only black kid in the room. When he made it to F1 he had to put up with openly racist abuse in Spain and Brazil, with fans conducting themselves in overtly unacceptable ways yet not evicted from the track (they were even shown on TV I believe)

I don't believe that was the fact there had not been official statements from everyone, it was the fact that in the face of a clearly egregious event, there hadn't been any comment or reflection at all. He had to be the first person to say something. Because he was the black one.
Agreed. He can say anything he wants. Just don't goad the others (if that's the correct word)
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:- I also think that the statement that speaking out will achieve nothing is somewhat wrong. The policemen would have gotten away without any charges if there wasn't a huge demonstration, it has happened many times before. Speaking out achieves things. Not always, but "forget it, it won't work" sends out the wrong message, especially for celebrities that want and can make a difference. There are a lot of thing that can be said about some countries, from the human rights point of view, from how they treat women or how China imposed the social credit scheme. The list is long
I'm talking about effectiveness about speaking out against China and Bahrain. Clearly speaking out about issues in America and Europe are productive and that actually validates Hamilton and others making such a noise on their platform about these issues.

China censors its own press and citizens, and it sure as hell does not allow any foreign press critical of China to be shared within its borders. I don't know much about Bahrain's relationship with its press, but even if it uncensored they are unlikely to care much what people think.
Ok, this is more clear now, thanks.

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Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by pokerman »

Rockie wrote:
pokerman wrote: So there's been looting in the UK as well because of what happened in another country, it's hard to be sympathetic with a cause on the back of such criminality, I saw some police officers get attacked as well.
So a fellow human being killed due to the colour of his skin recorded live and you saw that makes it hard for you to support a cause due to a few anarchists doing what they do best take advantage of the situation.

This kind of logic is what racists and racist apologists use in denigrating the cause, this is akin to the people who scream all lives matter when there is a protest of an unjust killing of a black man and black lives matter protest, absolutely disgusting take!
All I'm saying is that one act of violence shouldn't justify all the violence that came after, are we not supposed to be civilised?

How does an unlawful death in America justify looting and attacks on police in London?

Also this is during a pandemic which makes such protests potentially life threatening for some people taking part and really is not legal on that score but of course you have to appreciate the situation at hand.
Lewis Hamilton #44

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pokerman
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Re: New 2020 calendar

Post by pokerman »

Option or Prime wrote:Yes, I'd support that view strongly Rockie, that really is a perverse piece of logic Pokerman. In fact its not logical at all.

Are you saying that you can't support the protest against George Floyds killing (mostly peaceful protests) because in another country a criminal used it as an excuse to commit a burglary?
It's unfortunate that these type of protests always seem to beget more violence.
Lewis Hamilton #44

World Drivers Titles: 7 (1st)
Grand Prix Wins: 95 (1st)
Pole Positions: 98 (1st)
Podiums: 164 (1st)


PF1 Pick 10 Competition
2014: Champion

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