Webber you can't retire soon enough!

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drchatnuff
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by drchatnuff »

Webber is an ok driver ...nothing else, same as Button,Rosberg, Massa....F1 is lacking quality drivers apart from the known trio plus Kimi

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POBRatings
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by POBRatings »

Imo Webber is racing at about the same level as Massa and Grosjean, slightly behind Raikkonen, who is slightly behind Hamilton and Rosberg, with Vettel and Alonso at the top. Risky business this, ranking drivers, but I think Webber is still racing very well and has not dropped his form since 2010.

Teddy007
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Teddy007 »

drchatnuff wrote:Webber is an ok driver ...nothing else, same as Button,Rosberg, Massa....F1 is lacking quality drivers apart from the known trio plus Kimi

Button showed in his prime he can match Lewis as shown for the last 3 seasons.

Webber has done nothing since Brazil 2010

Massa has done nothing till recently and even on race day that Alonso mentioned race day is what matters.

Button didn't do a good Job on quali.

Out of those drivers button was the closest on tm wars.

silkjet

Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by silkjet »

Neutrality wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Neutrality wrote:
silkjet wrote:
Oasis wrote:This season has been a snorefest, even to Vettel fans. There is 1 man in on the grid that can make the races a little bit exciting, that would
be the man sitting in the same machinery. But every time he has a little sniff at the front the typical Webber start comes along and the race is over even
before the first corner.


David Hobbs is convinced a large part of Vettel's success is that Adrian Newey has designed a car that suits Vettel's style. While I agree that Webber is not in Vettel's league, I think Hobbs has a very good point.


I am missing your point here :?

I think the point is that the gap between Vettel and Webber may have been exaggerated by the fact that the car suited Vettel's style much more than Webber's. So Webber has been made to look worse because he's driving a car he just doesn't get on with


Ah right, then I would suggest that The correct statement would be that Vettel adapted his style to suit the car designed by Newey, as opposed to Newey designing the car around Vettel?


The idea that Newey designed a car to suit Vettel's style is David Hobbs', as expressed on two different occasions. One at India GP and again at this week's Abu Dhabi GP.

Disagree with Hobbs if you like.

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mds
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by mds »

I don't know which one of two things it is:
- Newey designing a car tailored to Vettels needs
- Vettel being the perfect driver for the concept Newey has in mind

I think it might be a blend. Does the RBR not incorporate quite a few design ideas that Newey strived for earlier in his career?
Go Vandoorne :( - Verstappen - Vettel!

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Neutrality
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Neutrality »

mds wrote:I don't know which one of two things it is:
- Newey designing a car tailored to Vettels needs
- Vettel being the perfect driver for the concept Newey has in mind

I think it might be a blend. Does the RBR not incorporate quite a few design ideas that Newey strived for earlier in his career?


I was under the impression that the difference was that Vettel found it easier to adapt to the counter intuitive driving style required due the EBD/high downforce design of Newey. To me this is entirely reasonable, as I would expect a relatively new driver to be able to adapt quicker than someone who is set in their ways.
Night is a very dark time for me

silkjet

Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by silkjet »

Neutrality: I have also heard that Vettel was adept at the counter-intuitive driving. But that just seems so odd. If it really was counter-intutive, you'd see some mistakes. You just never see Vettel make a mistake. And we know he's not a robot.

I really hope we find out something solid someday. Possibly after Vettel is retired, or when Newey retires.

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mds
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by mds »

silkjet wrote:Neutrality: I have also heard that Vettel was adept at the counter-intuitive driving. But that just seems so odd. If it really was counter-intutive, you'd see some mistakes.


Why? It's not because it's counter-intuitive, that it's not possible to master. He has mastered the driving style required to drive the RBR concept to it's fullest.
Go Vandoorne :( - Verstappen - Vettel!

Paolo_Lasardi
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

Why should he retire? Webber did exactly what the team expected him to: losing out to the golden boy at the start (okay, his KERS was off, just to make that sure) and then fought back to P2. A perfect day for Marko Bull.

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mds
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by mds »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Why should he retire? Webber did exactly what the team expected him to: losing out to the golden boy at the start (okay, his KERS was off, just to make that sure) and then fought back to P2. A perfect day for Marko Bull.


To help you back to reality:

"What Sebastian did to the rest of us in the race, I don't think the start in the end was going to be that important," the 37-year-old said.

"He was so strong in that first stint, he was in another planet - pulling away and not wearing the tyres out.

"He just positioned himself very very well to then unload the strategy in a very, very powerful fashion from there against the rest of us.

"That made it more difficult for us to even stay (near him). He had a pitstop in hand even at the end, so he could've had another stop and come in for a coffee and gone again.

"In the end, it was probably the best result I could get today - irrespective of what happened off the line."
Go Vandoorne :( - Verstappen - Vettel!

Crazy_Ivan
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Crazy_Ivan »

Ohhh dear, here we go again.

Paolo_Lasardi
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

mds wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Why should he retire? Webber did exactly what the team expected him to: losing out to the golden boy at the start (okay, his KERS was off, just to make that sure) and then fought back to P2. A perfect day for Marko Bull.


To help you back to reality:

"What Sebastian did to the rest of us in the race, I don't think the start in the end was going to be that important," the 37-year-old said.

"He was so strong in that first stint, he was in another planet - pulling away and not wearing the tyres out.

"He just positioned himself very very well to then unload the strategy in a very, very powerful fashion from there against the rest of us.

"That made it more difficult for us to even stay (near him). He had a pitstop in hand even at the end, so he could've had another stop and come in for a coffee and gone again.

"In the end, it was probably the best result I could get today - irrespective of what happened off the line."


No problem - I agree that the KERS thing was unnecessary. But Marko Bull likes to go for the absolute certain way. ;-)

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AFCTUJacko
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by AFCTUJacko »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Why should he retire? Webber did exactly what the team expected him to: losing out to the golden boy at the start (okay, his KERS was off, just to make that sure) and then fought back to P2. A perfect day for Marko Bull.


His KERS was off?

He employed it before he hit 100kph. It doesn't work below 100kph. Driver error....
Leave me alone.....I know what I'm doing

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Peter77
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Peter77 »

Prema wrote:
Peter77 wrote:
r1latty wrote:Who rattled your cage?

Mark is a valuable member of RedBull and contributes a lot to the aerodynamic setup of the car, whereas Vettel focuses more on the mechanical setup. He ripped in a lap on Saturday and proved he has the talent. Overall he's just not on top of all the variables like Vettel is at the moment, but don't undermine his contribution to RedBull and their success.


Mark provides incredible support to the redbull team. Finally somebody speaking the truth :) Parts off his car are on standby every single race in case vettel needs them. Wings, Kers packs whatever is needed to support vettel. Even when Webber was beating vettel in 2010 Parts were used off Webber's car for Vettel. Now that's what you call support . No other driver in F1 provides that level of support to a team mate. If only we had more people supporting Vettel in the field. You also have the other 2 torro rosso cars who get right out of the way when Vettel's coming yet when Webber is coming they block and even smash into him so he cannot pass. It's a shame vettel cannot use Torro Rosso wings and parts for his car as well as they are a different package altogether.

What redbull needs to do is buy out another few F1 teams to give even more support to Vettel and increase their redbull budget even further. They also did the right thing hiring Ric and not any of the other top drivers like Raikonen begging for a seat. A rookie was definately the best option for Vettel. Im sure if Ric is to quick they will give him all the magicaly good luck Webber had.

1. The fastest car in race pace last 4 years averaging over 1 second quicker than anything else out there.
2 The fastest car in qualifying last 4 years.
3. Adrian Newey the best designer in F1 last 4 years.
4. The biggest unlimited budget in F1 last 4 years. (updates every week and even special setups and wings for every single racetrack which no other team can afford to do)
5. The most lopsided team in F1 where 1 driver gets all the resources and other gets faulty parts race after race. no other team in F1 currently is as lopsided not even ferrari.
6. Owning a sister team Torro Rosso and they fly right out of the way if you are ever stuck behind them but not for your team mate Webber though.

Vettel! That's what you call a real champion :)


Yes. And that, four times over.

It's as real as it can be. Go hit a concrete wall with your head, and you'll find out how real it is. The real world.


Are you aware this forum does not allow violent posts like yours were you recommend people hurt and or kill themselves? It seems you love Vettel more than life itself to recommend people bang their head against a wall which will most likely kill them so they can prove Vettel is real when we all know he is real. Craziest comment I ever read on this forum. You need to go see a psychiatrist immediately and explain how you love Vettel much more than life itself that you recommended that others bang their head against a concrete wall to appreciate how real he is. He most likely will put you on meds and therapy and even report you to the police, just in case somebody follows your advice and dies then you can claim insanity and claim you were being treated for your ultra extreme Vettel obsession where you want others to hurt themselves and or die over Vettel.
"Talented drivers adapt, the mediocre ones complain."

aftershocksinthebath
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by aftershocksinthebath »

I wonder where the hate will be directed next year, which driver is going to cop all the fairy cakes that webber has on this forum?

2486970
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by 2486970 »

aftershocksinthebath wrote:I wonder where the hate will be directed next year, which driver is going to cop all the fairy cakes that webber has on this forum?


I sincerely hope that the fans give Dan a chance before they get stuck into him. That said, it will be interesting to see what the fan's reactions will be if Dan gets one up on Seb next year, especially in the first few races. I don't see it happening though; it's going to take him a while to get to Seb's level and it wouldn't surprise me if Helmut's got him on a #2 driver contract.

Zoue
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Zoue »

Peter77 wrote:
Prema wrote:
Peter77 wrote:
r1latty wrote:Who rattled your cage?

Mark is a valuable member of RedBull and contributes a lot to the aerodynamic setup of the car, whereas Vettel focuses more on the mechanical setup. He ripped in a lap on Saturday and proved he has the talent. Overall he's just not on top of all the variables like Vettel is at the moment, but don't undermine his contribution to RedBull and their success.


Mark provides incredible support to the redbull team. Finally somebody speaking the truth :) Parts off his car are on standby every single race in case vettel needs them. Wings, Kers packs whatever is needed to support vettel. Even when Webber was beating vettel in 2010 Parts were used off Webber's car for Vettel. Now that's what you call support . No other driver in F1 provides that level of support to a team mate. If only we had more people supporting Vettel in the field. You also have the other 2 torro rosso cars who get right out of the way when Vettel's coming yet when Webber is coming they block and even smash into him so he cannot pass. It's a shame vettel cannot use Torro Rosso wings and parts for his car as well as they are a different package altogether.

What redbull needs to do is buy out another few F1 teams to give even more support to Vettel and increase their redbull budget even further. They also did the right thing hiring Ric and not any of the other top drivers like Raikonen begging for a seat. A rookie was definately the best option for Vettel. Im sure if Ric is to quick they will give him all the magicaly good luck Webber had.

1. The fastest car in race pace last 4 years averaging over 1 second quicker than anything else out there.
2 The fastest car in qualifying last 4 years.
3. Adrian Newey the best designer in F1 last 4 years.
4. The biggest unlimited budget in F1 last 4 years. (updates every week and even special setups and wings for every single racetrack which no other team can afford to do)
5. The most lopsided team in F1 where 1 driver gets all the resources and other gets faulty parts race after race. no other team in F1 currently is as lopsided not even ferrari.
6. Owning a sister team Torro Rosso and they fly right out of the way if you are ever stuck behind them but not for your team mate Webber though.

Vettel! That's what you call a real champion :)


Yes. And that, four times over.

It's as real as it can be. Go hit a concrete wall with your head, and you'll find out how real it is. The real world.


Are you aware this forum does not allow violent posts like yours were you recommend people hurt and or kill themselves? It seems you love Vettel more than life itself to recommend people bang their head against a wall which will most likely kill them so they can prove Vettel is real when we all know he is real. Craziest comment I ever read on this forum. You need to go see a psychiatrist immediately and explain how you love Vettel much more than life itself that you recommended that others bang their head against a concrete wall to appreciate how real he is. He most likely will put you on meds and therapy and even report you to the police, just in case somebody follows your advice and dies then you can claim insanity and claim you were being treated for your ultra extreme Vettel obsession where you want others to hurt themselves and or die over Vettel.

overreact much?

mac_d
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by mac_d »

The points tally doesn't quite tell the whole story here though.

Vettel is more than a match for Webber but Webber has had his fair share and then some of technical maladies. I suppose perhaps it is his "fault" for being a bigger guy than Vettel but I don't think we can or should really complain about that.

Prema
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Prema »

Peter77 wrote:
Prema wrote:
Peter77 wrote:
r1latty wrote:Who rattled your cage?

Mark is a valuable member of RedBull and contributes a lot to the aerodynamic setup of the car, whereas Vettel focuses more on the mechanical setup. He ripped in a lap on Saturday and proved he has the talent. Overall he's just not on top of all the variables like Vettel is at the moment, but don't undermine his contribution to RedBull and their success.


Mark provides incredible support to the redbull team. Finally somebody speaking the truth :) Parts off his car are on standby every single race in case vettel needs them. Wings, Kers packs whatever is needed to support vettel. Even when Webber was beating vettel in 2010 Parts were used off Webber's car for Vettel. Now that's what you call support . No other driver in F1 provides that level of support to a team mate. If only we had more people supporting Vettel in the field. You also have the other 2 torro rosso cars who get right out of the way when Vettel's coming yet when Webber is coming they block and even smash into him so he cannot pass. It's a shame vettel cannot use Torro Rosso wings and parts for his car as well as they are a different package altogether.

What redbull needs to do is buy out another few F1 teams to give even more support to Vettel and increase their redbull budget even further. They also did the right thing hiring Ric and not any of the other top drivers like Raikonen begging for a seat. A rookie was definately the best option for Vettel. Im sure if Ric is to quick they will give him all the magicaly good luck Webber had.

1. The fastest car in race pace last 4 years averaging over 1 second quicker than anything else out there.
2 The fastest car in qualifying last 4 years.
3. Adrian Newey the best designer in F1 last 4 years.
4. The biggest unlimited budget in F1 last 4 years. (updates every week and even special setups and wings for every single racetrack which no other team can afford to do)
5. The most lopsided team in F1 where 1 driver gets all the resources and other gets faulty parts race after race. no other team in F1 currently is as lopsided not even ferrari.
6. Owning a sister team Torro Rosso and they fly right out of the way if you are ever stuck behind them but not for your team mate Webber though.

Vettel! That's what you call a real champion :)


Yes. And that, four times over.

It's as real as it can be. Go hit a concrete wall with your head, and you'll find out how real it is. The real world.


Are you aware this forum does not allow violent posts like yours were you recommend people hurt and or kill themselves? It seems you love Vettel more than life itself to recommend people bang their head against a wall which will most likely kill them so they can prove Vettel is real when we all know he is real. Craziest comment I ever read on this forum. You need to go see a psychiatrist immediately and explain how you love Vettel much more than life itself that you recommended that others bang their head against a concrete wall to appreciate how real he is. He most likely will put you on meds and therapy and even report you to the police, just in case somebody follows your advice and dies then you can claim insanity and claim you were being treated for your ultra extreme Vettel obsession where you want others to hurt themselves and or die over Vettel.


I mean, please don't do that! Not by any mean!

I meant that the guy is a real champion just as the concrete wall is real hard. And just as there is no need to go hitting the wall with our heads in order to understand how real it is, there shouldn't be any need for all that banging all kinds of mental walls with our heads either (it can only hurt, but not change any facts). The 4 X WDC is real like that concrete wall!

But my bad, it certainly didn't cross my mind there actually may be some real crazy people around here capable of literally following my "recommendation" and go kill themselves in that way (what was but a sarcasm). So I take it officially back before it's too late! Spread the information!

Friends again? :nod:

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Peter77
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Peter77 »

Prema wrote:
Peter77 wrote:
Prema wrote:
Peter77 wrote:
r1latty wrote:Who rattled your cage?

Mark is a valuable member of RedBull and contributes a lot to the aerodynamic setup of the car, whereas Vettel focuses more on the mechanical setup. He ripped in a lap on Saturday and proved he has the talent. Overall he's just not on top of all the variables like Vettel is at the moment, but don't undermine his contribution to RedBull and their success.


Mark provides incredible support to the redbull team. Finally somebody speaking the truth :) Parts off his car are on standby every single race in case vettel needs them. Wings, Kers packs whatever is needed to support vettel. Even when Webber was beating vettel in 2010 Parts were used off Webber's car for Vettel. Now that's what you call support . No other driver in F1 provides that level of support to a team mate. If only we had more people supporting Vettel in the field. You also have the other 2 torro rosso cars who get right out of the way when Vettel's coming yet when Webber is coming they block and even smash into him so he cannot pass. It's a shame vettel cannot use Torro Rosso wings and parts for his car as well as they are a different package altogether.

What redbull needs to do is buy out another few F1 teams to give even more support to Vettel and increase their redbull budget even further. They also did the right thing hiring Ric and not any of the other top drivers like Raikonen begging for a seat. A rookie was definately the best option for Vettel. Im sure if Ric is to quick they will give him all the magicaly good luck Webber had.

1. The fastest car in race pace last 4 years averaging over 1 second quicker than anything else out there.
2 The fastest car in qualifying last 4 years.
3. Adrian Newey the best designer in F1 last 4 years.
4. The biggest unlimited budget in F1 last 4 years. (updates every week and even special setups and wings for every single racetrack which no other team can afford to do)
5. The most lopsided team in F1 where 1 driver gets all the resources and other gets faulty parts race after race. no other team in F1 currently is as lopsided not even ferrari.
6. Owning a sister team Torro Rosso and they fly right out of the way if you are ever stuck behind them but not for your team mate Webber though.

Vettel! That's what you call a real champion :)


Yes. And that, four times over.

It's as real as it can be. Go hit a concrete wall with your head, and you'll find out how real it is. The real world.


Are you aware this forum does not allow violent posts like yours were you recommend people hurt and or kill themselves? It seems you love Vettel more than life itself to recommend people bang their head against a wall which will most likely kill them so they can prove Vettel is real when we all know he is real. Craziest comment I ever read on this forum. You need to go see a psychiatrist immediately and explain how you love Vettel much more than life itself that you recommended that others bang their head against a concrete wall to appreciate how real he is. He most likely will put you on meds and therapy and even report you to the police, just in case somebody follows your advice and dies then you can claim insanity and claim you were being treated for your ultra extreme Vettel obsession where you want others to hurt themselves and or die over Vettel.


I mean, please don't do that! Not by any mean!

I meant that the guy is a real champion just as the concrete wall is real hard. And just as there is no need to go hitting the wall with our heads in order to understand how real it is, there shouldn't be any need for all that banging all kinds of mental walls with our heads either (it can only hurt, but not change any facts). The 4 X WDC is real like that concrete wall!

But my bad, it certainly didn't cross my mind there actually may be some real crazy people around here capable of literally following my "recommendation" and go kill themselves in that way (what was but a sarcasm). So I take it officially back before it's too late! Spread the information!

Friends again? :nod:


hahahahahaha
sure friends again :)
"Talented drivers adapt, the mediocre ones complain."

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mds
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by mds »

On the subject of Webber retiring and Webber-Vettel dynamics: could it be possible they have, more or less, made up for their past quarrels and are trying to finish their time together cleanly?

The way Mark has been talking about Vettel lately makes me think so. Then I saw this picture which I believe is not a way enemies would greet each other. Reading the body languages there's eye contact, the hand gesture seems like a respecting one.

Any thoughts?

Image
Go Vandoorne :( - Verstappen - Vettel!

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James14
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by James14 »

mds wrote:On the subject of Webber retiring and Webber-Vettel dynamics: could it be possible they have, more or less, made up for their past quarrels and are trying to finish their time together cleanly?

The way Mark has been talking about Vettel lately makes me think so. Then I saw this picture which I believe is not a way enemies would greet each other. Reading the body languages there's eye contact, the hand gesture seems like a respecting one.

Any thoughts?


I picked up on that as well. I doubt that they have made up but Mark is probably thinking I'm gone in a couple of races so whats the point? At the end of it all, bar a couple of instances, it was a case of being out driven by a better driver. If he leaves on decent terms there may be an opening for Mark in the team down the line in some role.

oz_karter
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by oz_karter »

I just find the whole intent of this thread hilarious given the timing.

Webber has two races left before he moves on. He's retiring.

Most drivers retire late, when they have been pushed into slower teams after being unable to match the pace.

On Saturday night Webber beat Vettel to pole. Read that again. Webber got pole. Ahead of the 4 time world champion.

He's no slouch.

I would have liked Webber to do better in F1, especially at Red Bull, but 9 GP wins and a bunch of podiums in an era where Vettel will be revered in history is not too bad. Maybe that will increase to ten? Hope so.

Bit unfair on Mark. He's a good driver and just happened to get into the top team at a similar time to the Schumacher of the generation. Fared better than Rubens did I would say.

:D

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