Webber you can't retire soon enough!

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Oasis
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Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Oasis »

This season has been a snorefest, even to Vettel fans. There is 1 man in on the grid that can make the races a little bit exciting, that would
be the man sitting in the same machinery. But every time he has a little sniff at the front the typical Webber start comes along and the race is over even
before the first corner. This RedBull car deserves a better driver than pensionist and pathetic second driver Webber. Its a disgrace for the good drivers
on the grid seeing him making so little use of the dominating car he has. 5th in the championship FIFTH!!!, almost 200 TWOHUNDRED points behind his teammate. Goodbye Webber, looking forward to seeing another donkey in that Red Bull!

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McPrancingBull
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by McPrancingBull »

:thumbdown: :thumbdown:
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TakumaSatoforthewin
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by TakumaSatoforthewin »

That's not taking into account his plague of bad luck but generally yes, Webber has not got the maximum out of that car or mounted really much of a challenge to Vettel except at Suzuka. Today Seb was well clear while MW was too close for comfort to Rosberg in an inferior Mercedes. Mark's a good driver and doesn't need to prove that but his motivation has waned and he has chosen the right time to bow out with dignity.

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Alaaddin
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Alaaddin »

Being teammate of an All Time Great is not a fault of Webber. He had many mechanical retirements throughout the season. He is still fast enough to outqualify 4 times F1 champion time to time even though he is past his peak.
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Oasis
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Oasis »

TakumaSatoforthewin wrote:That's not taking into account his plague of bad luck but generally yes, Webber has not got the maximum out of that car or mounted really much of a challenge to Vettel except at Suzuka. Today Seb was well clear while MW was too close for comfort to Rosberg in an inferior Mercedes. Mark's a good driver and doesn't need to prove that but his motivation has waned and he has chosen the right time to bow out with dignity.


You feel this is resigning with dignity? This is not about bad luck, its about what position he puts himself in. Vettel must be laughing seeing his points score

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TakumaSatoforthewin
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by TakumaSatoforthewin »

Oasis wrote:
TakumaSatoforthewin wrote:That's not taking into account his plague of bad luck but generally yes, Webber has not got the maximum out of that car or mounted really much of a challenge to Vettel except at Suzuka. Today Seb was well clear while MW was too close for comfort to Rosberg in an inferior Mercedes. Mark's a good driver and doesn't need to prove that but his motivation has waned and he has chosen the right time to bow out with dignity.


You feel this is resigning with dignity? This is not about bad luck, its about what position he puts himself in. Vettel must be laughing seeing his points score


Well for sure its more dignity than he would have got if he did a Barrichello and tried staying round past his sell by date. Anyway he has had two poles this season and four second places so he has proven he can still be competitive, just not as competitive as he should be given the equipment he has. Vettel will be happy he is beating Mark but I bet he wishes it was Alonso or Hamilton he was beating because he still can't shrug off the accusation that he hasn't faced a world class driver in the same machinery.

r1latty
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by r1latty »

Who rattled your cage?

Mark is a valuable member of RedBull and contributes a lot to the aerodynamic setup of the car, whereas Vettel focuses more on the mechanical setup. He ripped in a lap on Saturday and proved he has the talent. Overall he's just not on top of all the variables like Vettel is at the moment, but don't undermine his contribution to RedBull and their success.

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AFCTUJacko
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by AFCTUJacko »

Mark is still competitive, he's proved that with two 2nd places in Japan & Abu Dhabi, and it would have been 3 had he not had the failure in India.

He is doing the job that Red Bull employ him to do.

I honestly believe only Fernando Alonso could cope with Seb based on current form
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Guia
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Guia »

r1latty wrote:Who rattled your cage?

Mark is a valuable member of RedBull and contributes a lot to the aerodynamic setup of the car, whereas Vettel focuses more on the mechanical setup. He ripped in a lap on Saturday and proved he has the talent. Overall he's just not on top of all the variables like Vettel is at the moment, but don't undermine his contribution to RedBull and their success.

Nice post.

I would point out that Mark can't come close to matching Seb's work rate, his attitude is all wrong and his conception of what it is to put a grand prix together makes the Tea Party look well thought through. But none of that alters anything you've said and, this being a hateful and thoroughly unreflective thread, all I'll say is...

Nice post.

vince14

Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by vince14 »

r1latty wrote:Who rattled your cage?

Mark is a valuable member of RedBull and contributes a lot to the aerodynamic setup of the car, whereas Vettel focuses more on the mechanical setup. He ripped in a lap on Saturday and proved he has the talent. Overall he's just not on top of all the variables like Vettel is at the moment, but don't undermine his contribution to RedBull and their success.

Do you have proof of that split?

There's no doubt that Mark has made a huge contribution to Red Bull over the years, but the last two seasons have, frankly, been embarrassing. Vettel is light years ahead of him in every respect. I just hope that Ricciardo proves to be an upgrade over Webber and we actually see some close competition between the two, because F1 damn well needs it.

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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Zoue »

while I think the OP is a little harsh, I do agree that Mark has seriously under-performed this year in a car that is streets ahead of the opposition. Getting two poles in a season is not really enough of an achievement overall, especially when you see that he effectively wasted those poles by not maximising the points afterwards. Today was a great example: how can he squander a hard fought pole position like that by losing not one but two places off the line, especially when his team mate manages to get ahead almost every single time? You can't help but think that a more competent driver would have done better with that equipment than Mark has done.

I've said before, being fast is not enough in today's F1: you have to have much better race craft and consistency than Mark has shown this year. Maybe he's lost his motivation after being beaten so often by Seb, but I think it's good that Mark is leaving RBR now, if not F1 altogether. I have to say I don't think he deserves the seat anymore.

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bourbon19
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by bourbon19 »

Oasis wrote:This season has been a snorefest, even to Vettel fans. There is 1 man in on the grid that can make the races a little bit exciting, that would
be the man sitting in the same machinery. But every time he has a little sniff at the front the typical Webber start comes along and the race is over even
before the first corner. This RedBull car deserves a better driver than pensionist and pathetic second driver Webber. Its a disgrace for the good drivers
on the grid seeing him making so little use of the dominating car he has. 5th in the championship FIFTH!!!, almost 200 TWOHUNDRED points behind his teammate. Goodbye Webber, looking forward to seeing another donkey in that Red Bull!



Speak for yourself. I don't know of any Vettel fans that are bored - we are lovin' it! Keep Winning Sebi !! There are awesome records being set, history being made. You don't have to enjoy it, but many do appreciate seeing this stuff happen with their own eyes. :thumbup:

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AFCTUJacko
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by AFCTUJacko »

bourbon19 wrote:
Oasis wrote:This season has been a snorefest, even to Vettel fans. There is 1 man in on the grid that can make the races a little bit exciting, that would
be the man sitting in the same machinery. But every time he has a little sniff at the front the typical Webber start comes along and the race is over even
before the first corner. This RedBull car deserves a better driver than pensionist and pathetic second driver Webber. Its a disgrace for the good drivers
on the grid seeing him making so little use of the dominating car he has. 5th in the championship FIFTH!!!, almost 200 TWOHUNDRED points behind his teammate. Goodbye Webber, looking forward to seeing another donkey in that Red Bull!



Speak for yourself. I don't know of any Vettel fans that are bored - we are lovin' it! Keep Winning Sebi !! There are awesome records being set, history being made. You don't have to enjoy it, but many do appreciate seeing this stuff happen with their own eyes. :thumbup:


I am not a Vettel fan (or a fan of anyone really) and i don't think it's been a snorefest.

Todays race had more action than most i recall watching from 2000-2010.

There is plenty to keep you interested in F1 if you don't just focus on who is winning
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Oasis
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Oasis »

I actually looked forward to this race, thinking yesterday that Mark could actually have a chance at fighting Vettel, and then being so dissapointed before he even
makes it to the first corner. The races are boring but could be a hell of a lot mroe interesting had Vettel had a more competitive teammate! Maybe I should
take a break from F1 and come back next season.

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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Robbo-92 »

I think Mark is leaving F1 at the right time, not because he still isn't good enough to win races as on his day he cam match Seb but as we can all see Seb is pretty much unbeatable, supreme race pace that no one can hope to match. Say it's the car all you want but Mark was 30 seconds behind Seb today, in equal machinery with no technical problems on either side of the garage, I think it shows just how good Seb is.

I say Mark is leaving at the right time because he seems to have lost all of his motivation, with him giving up on his extensive training just shows a person who's ready to leave. I would much prefer to see any driver leave at or near the top of their game rather than hanging around until they can't find a seat in F1, all the best in the WEC Mark :)
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Formula1Fan. »

Oasis wrote:I actually looked forward to this race, thinking yesterday that Mark could actually have a chance at fighting Vettel, and then being so dissapointed before he even
makes it to the first corner. The races are boring but could be a hell of a lot mroe interesting had Vettel had a more competitive teammate! Maybe I should
take a break from F1 and come back next season.

Yeah because RBR really want a competitive teammate, it worked out so well for them in Malaysia didn't it? they want a competitive teammate for Vettel so badly that they've signed the proven F1 champ Ricciardo for 2014.

Your posts are well wide of the mark (no pun), there's little Webber could have done this season with a malfunctioning car and no team backing.
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Guia
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Guia »

Formula1Fan. wrote:well wide of the mark (no pun)

No, there's definitely a pun.

mwf1
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by mwf1 »

This is a crappy thread apart from all the bad luck Webber has had the main reason for his demise is the Pirelli hi deg tyres, had the last 3 years been on bridgestones then the parity between the two drivers would be different Webber has made it quite clear he has never liked them and had trouble with them look at his answer to last question in press conference.

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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Tyrrellforever »

He's not in the same equipment though, his car is vastly inferior to golden boy's.

You can't convince me its not, how many failures now? and how many times over and over has the KERS failed on him. You can bet your life that if Seb's KERS failed HALF as often, they'd be looking into it and have it fixed long ago.

tbh anyone of the 22 drivers in F1 could win in that one car team if they had Sebs rocketship

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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by da4an1qu1 »

I see no reason to denegrate *any* driver in this way. I'd say Webber is retiring half-a-year too late. I don't think starting the season was a mistake. But Malaysia onwards, incident induced perhaps, he no longer had the motivation or worse, the aptitude to beat his team mate. He's had a decent career. I expect Riccardio to be closer to Vettel... but it's also a new era for F1. It'll be harder to guage just how much closer a different driver could have got to Seb this year.

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James14
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by James14 »

da4an1qu1 wrote:I see no reason to denegrate *any* driver in this way. I'd say Webber is retiring half-a-year too late. I don't think starting the season was a mistake. But Malaysia onwards, incident induced perhaps, he no longer had the motivation or worse, the aptitude to beat his team mate. He's had a decent career. I expect Riccardio to be closer to Vettel... but it's also a new era for F1. It'll be harder to guage just how much closer a different driver could have got to Seb this year.


I'd go along with that. I like Webber but the only thing that would have lit up F1 in the last couple of years is if a really competitive driver was in Webbers seat putting it up to Vettel. The RB is in a different league than all the other cars so real competition is not coming from there.
Sadly though I don't think Riccardio is the answer. Hope I'm wrong though.

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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Pole2Win »

I really doubt Vettel is so much better than everyone else on the grid, including Alonso who beat the previous F1 superstar twice. This can only mean Webber is crap, and unworthy of the seat he has. On top of that, he's already 37, and in decline.
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Toby. »

I have no doubt in my mind Webber would be second in the championship right now if he'd not suffered the sleuth of failures he's had this year. He's generally been a bit off Vettel's pace, but it's not usually a great chasm. I'd guess it's something around two tenths a lap generally. Seems like a lot in F1 terms, but when you're partnered against arguably the fastest driver in the world it's nothing to be ashamed about. I'm certain there are drivers on the grid who wouldn't do any better.

In regards to Abu Dhabi, Vettel's 30-second victory is a bit misleading. Yes, he was the fastest driver on the track but he wasn't per-lap fast enough to build up that gap without a little bit of fortune. Sebastian is a master of getting himself in the right position at the right time and he did that again yesterday. By getting himself into first position he was able to stretch his tyres out longer than Rosberg who had forced Webber into the pits early to try and jump him. Webber lost 20 seconds in the first stint due to the poor start but only lost another 10 seconds to Vettel over the next 40 laps. Vettel certainly drove brilliantly yesterday, but he didn't get that lead without a little bit of good luck coming his way. Had it been Vettel leading Webber out of the first corner the result would have been a lot more respectable for Mark.
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by wolfie81 »

I think the OP has a vendetta against Mark. Any F1 fans would recognise the horrible season Mark has had based on his 'bad luck'. The two red bulls are NOT THE SAME. At the end of the day, the team focuses on Vettel and it shows. I argue you could put Bottas in Vettels car and he will win every race at the moment. Vettel is a good driver, but until he has to start somewhere below the top of the grid and work his way through the grid more often, I will not consider him a great driver. He has gone through the grid before, but I suspect thats patly because the other drivers have somewhat given up and aren't directly competing against him anymore. Throw Vettel starting in 10th in the first few races of the season and ill bet my nut he won't find it so easy to get through the pack.

Maybe next year the ONE car isn't so dominant and he actually does need to cut through the pack. That would determine his true skill set. Hell, throw me in the that RB car when I always begin at the front of the pack and Im pretty sure I can maintain it with all that power.

Finally, I don't think Mark is anywhere near over the hill for F1. He is bloody skilled, he has just lost the passion and motivation. Who wouldn't after the multiple failures in his car this year and knowing the RB team aren't really giving you the same attention as your teammate.

Theres something about Vettels RB that is not reflected in Marks. End of story.

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Peter77
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Peter77 »

Tyrrellforever wrote:He's not in the same equipment though, his car is vastly inferior to golden boy's.

You can't convince me its not, how many failures now? and how many times over and over has the KERS failed on him. You can bet your life that if Seb's KERS failed HALF as often, they'd be looking into it and have it fixed long ago.

tbh anyone of the 22 drivers in F1 could win in that one car team if they had Sebs rocketship


Seb is an above average driver. Every vettel fan goes crazy when you call him that. It is no insult by any means.
This is what makes look alot better than the above average driver he is.

1. The fastest car in race pace last 4 years.
2 The fastest car in qualifying last 4 years.
3. Adrian Newey the best designer in F1 last 4 years.
4. The biggest unlimited budget in F1 last 4 years.
5. The most lopsided team in F1 where 1 driver gets all the resources and other gets faulty parts race after race. no other team in F1 currently is as lopsided not even ferrari.

If you had Maldonado a paid driver this year in the redbull and swapped him with Vettel. The results would be the same. Vettel struggling every race and with Mad Mal winning every race.
And Mad Mal is a paid driver who everybody says has no real talent and is below average and only in F1 due to sponsorship money.
1 race he qualified 2nd and his team mate didn't even make it to Q3. And he held on and won the race, led start to finish with no mistakes and kept a cool head in a vastly slower car which he fluked onto the front.

And yet no credit at all is given to Mad Mal the paid driver. You give Mad Mal the fastest car every week he will do exactly what Seb did. He did it once first try in a vastly slower car so for sure he will do it again week after week in the fastest car on the grid. And Mad Mal is a below average paid driver according to most.

And if he did we would all be calling Mad Mal the best driver that ever lived and the greatest thing since slice bread just like so many Vettel Fans keep pleading cause he won 4 years in a row due to the massive car and team advantage.
Any of the top 22 drivers can do what Seb is doing now in his situation. Even below average paid driver Mad Mal. Way to much credit is given to Vettel and way to little credit is given to the other 22 runners out there driving vastly inferior equipment week after week.
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by wolfie81 »

Pretty much agree. Until Vettel has to fight for his position or the RB car (notice I didn't say cars) isn't as powerful, in my mind he hasn't proved to be worthy to be one of the greats.

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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Delta1 »

bourbon19 wrote:

Speak for yourself. I don't know of any Vettel fans that are bored - we are lovin' it! Keep Winning Sebi !! There are awesome records being set, history being made. You don't have to enjoy it, but many do appreciate seeing this stuff happen with their own eyes. :thumbup:


you said it yourself, you are vettel fans not F1 fans. No interested in actual competitive racing, just your idol getting as much glory no matter how cheap it is. Nothing to appreciate watching a car a class above the rest dominate. Its like mike tyson beating up a school kid. Not a fair contest.

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Peter77
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Peter77 »

Delta1 wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:

Speak for yourself. I don't know of any Vettel fans that are bored - we are lovin' it! Keep Winning Sebi !! There are awesome records being set, history being made. You don't have to enjoy it, but many do appreciate seeing this stuff happen with their own eyes. :thumbup:


you said it yourself, you are vettel fans not F1 fans. No interested in actual competitive racing, just your idol getting as much glory no matter how cheap it is. Nothing to appreciate watching a car a class above the rest dominate. Its like mike tyson beating up a school kid. Not a fair contest.


LOL very well said.
Its actually like Mike Tyson coming in as a heavyweight fighting featherweights only year after year and never once coming up against a heavyweight on 100% equal terms. Clearly unfair and doesn't prove he is a good fighter at the end of the day.
"Talented drivers adapt, the mediocre ones complain."

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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by seandean41 »

Hahahha OP.

Good one.

If you think for the slightest fraction of a second that Mark is in the same car as Vettel you're delusional.

I'll eat my hat next year if Ricciardo slaps Vettel around, but that's about as likely as as when Barichello took over from Irvine.
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Neutrality »

:lol: the bitterness, its like a plane full of oranges has crashed into lemon processing plant.

Webber came 2nd and was beaten only by his teammate; today, no matter who was in that car Vettel was a class above.
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Delta1 »

Neutrality wrote::lol: the bitterness, its like a plane full of oranges has crashed into lemon processing plant.
no matter who was in that car Vettel was a class above.


under what logic?

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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Neutrality »

Delta1 wrote:
Neutrality wrote::lol: the bitterness, its like a plane full of oranges has crashed into lemon processing plant.
no matter who was in that car Vettel was a class above.


under what logic?


The logic that if Webber (who qualified on pole) could not beat Vettel in the car, a driver who is not experienced in the RBR would have no chance!

As it is, IMO none of the current drivers would beat Vettel in the RBR; it is clearly man and machine in perfect harmony.
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Covalent »

seandean41 wrote:Hahahha OP.

Good one.

If you think for the slightest fraction of a second that Mark is in the same car as Vettel you're delusional.
I'll eat my hat next year if Ricciardo slaps Vettel around, but that's about as likely as as when Barichello took over from Irvine.

I know, two drivers can't fit in the same car. Delusional people huh?

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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Delta1 »

Neutrality wrote:The logic that if Webber (who qualified on pole) could not beat Vettel in the car, a driver who is not experienced in the RBR would have no chance!
.



oh you mean if another driver just jumped into the redbull right before a race? What kind of ridiculous standard is that?

Neutrality wrote:As it is, IMO none of the current drivers would beat Vettel in the RBR; it is clearly man and machine in perfect harmony


this if of course very very easy to say when vettel is being flattered so much, and completely baseless. Webber is a B class driver and always has been even at his best about a decade ago.
Last edited by Delta1 on Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

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specdecible
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by specdecible »

So many people feel the need to belittle Webber so they can justify claiming Vettel is not a great driver. Grow Up.
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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by seandean41 »

Covalent wrote:
seandean41 wrote:Hahahha OP.

Good one.

If you think for the slightest fraction of a second that Mark is in the same car as Vettel you're delusional.
I'll eat my hat next year if Ricciardo slaps Vettel around, but that's about as likely as as when Barichello took over from Irvine.

I know, two drivers can't fit in the same car. Delusional people huh?



:thumbup: LOL
As soon as you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high.

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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Prema »

Peter77 wrote:If you had Maldonado a paid driver this year in the redbull and swapped him with Vettel. The results would be the same. Vettel struggling every race and with Mad Mal winning every race.
And Mad Mal is a paid driver who everybody says has no real talent and is below average and only in F1 due to sponsorship money.
1 race he qualified 2nd and his team mate didn't even make it to Q3. And he held on and won the race, led start to finish with no mistakes and kept a cool head in a vastly slower car which he fluked onto the front.

And yet no credit at all is given to Mad Mal the paid driver. You give Mad Mal the fastest car every week he will do exactly what Seb did. He did it once first try in a vastly slower car so for sure he will do it again week after week in the fastest car on the grid. And Mad Mal is a below average paid driver according to most.

And if he did we would all be calling Mad Mal the best driver that ever lived and the greatest thing since slice bread just like so many Vettel Fans keep pleading cause he won 4 years in a row due to the massive car and team advantage.
Any of the top 22 drivers can do what Seb is doing now in his situation. Even below average paid driver Mad Mal. Way to much credit is given to Vettel and way to little credit is given to the other 22 runners out there driving vastly inferior equipment week after week.



And suddenly, all 22 drivers are top drivers. Even below average paid driver Mad Mal, is. And any of them can pull a "Vettel". But not Webber. And Webber is the only one of all others who actually is being there, in the RBR car. He is the reality. All others, including Mad Mal, are imaginations. But when the reality sucks to us, the imaginations take the precedence, replacing the reality. Easy done, happy campers.

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Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Delta1 »

If Webber's car did some suffer from technical problems almost every race and if he could actually start properly he would easily be second in the championship. The oldest driver on the grid. This car is one of the best of all time. Just like 2010,2011. Newey is so amazing.

Prema
Posts: 6650
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:40 pm

Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Prema »

Delta1 wrote:If Webber's car did some suffer from technical problems almost every race and if he could actually start properly he would easily be second in the championship. The oldest driver on the grid. This car is one of the best of all time. Just like 2010,2011. Newey is so amazing.


... if this and if that... and if Alonso would just have that car... then Alonso would be the king instead of Vettel... but he is not. What to do, not all men can marry the Miss Universe (read, Newey). But all men can keep drooling.

Zoue
Posts: 25158
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am

Re: Webber you can't retire soon enough!

Post by Zoue »

Tyrrellforever wrote:He's not in the same equipment though, his car is vastly inferior to golden boy's.

You can't convince me its not, how many failures now? and how many times over and over has the KERS failed on him. You can bet your life that if Seb's KERS failed HALF as often, they'd be looking into it and have it fixed long ago.

tbh anyone of the 22 drivers in F1 could win in that one car team if they had Sebs rocketship

even with KERS failures, you can't deny that Mark doesn't get the best out of the car. What about yesterday? He did the hard job and got pole, and then once again fluffed the start. He recovered later to get second, but he shouldn't have had to recover in the first place, should he? Why does he always make such a meal of it?

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