How good was Jackie Stewart?

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Kolby
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How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by Kolby »

Fared against Graham Hill and made a come back of his life after suffering from self-esteem issues in his early teen years. As a driver, he mentioned smooth driving was the technique that allowed him to win races and gain great amount of advantage, but when I compare him to Jenson Button who is also a smooth driver, Jackie Stewart edges him by a mile(exaggerated of course). So how does smooth driving helped him and is it still being practiced by modern drivers other than Jenson Button?
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ChopSchuey
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by ChopSchuey »

133 views, and no replies! :lol:

Robbo-92
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by Robbo-92 »

He was ok I suppose ;)
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chaz986
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by chaz986 »

Needless to say JS is a great maybe a demi god of F1 lol ,as for the idears of smooth style maybe this allows a driver to tune into the "talk" a car can give leting them feel out the conditions ,rather than throwing a car about and reacting too its balance and grip, as for others that are like this Alonso comes to mind as hes adaptable mainly smooth but will hussle a car when needing to .

Tyrrellforever

Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by Tyrrellforever »

JYS was top drawer material.

He was very close to Jimmy and Jackie was very young and still learning his craft.
Without a doubt imo he earned those titles (unlike some drivers)

Its just very very sad that his career ended in such a horrible and tragic way.

Bollard
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by Bollard »

I don't like how he's a smug guy now, and comments on everything about current drivers. It's a totally different day and age.
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POBRatings
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by POBRatings »

Imo Stewart was about as good as Prost was in every sense, fast and shrewd at assessing when to push, when not to. They could both win races in off-pace cars. Their driving styles too were similar, visibly very smooth and unspectacular, not forcing the car, but feeling what its limits are and exploiting thier own sensitivity.

In none of Stewart's three WDCs did he have the fastest cars: niether 1969 nor 1971; in 1970 he was the only one to win a race in a March, which was too heavy and slow; in 1973 Stewart's last WDC his car was slower than the Peterson and Fittipaldi Lotuses, but Jackie shrewdly won five great races.

One of Stewart's contemporary rival drivers Phil Hill reckoned he was better than Clark. Stewart was without doubt one of the great drivers. Like Prost, Stewart made very few errors, he was very accurate which added up over a race, enabling them to beat faster packages/cars.

Stewart also did much to get safety improved and was instrumental in getting a professional, permanent doctor on board, Dr Sid Watkins. Stewart had crashed at Spa in 1966, and was appalled at the lack of any medical care, hygeine, facilities,etc. He went on campaign to improve the situation, and got so much criticism for it, like Jamie Oliver trying to introduce healthier foods in schools. Yet Jackie never stopped being the fastest, most succesful driver, even after his crash and despite all the negative criticism.

Stewart had a great team, and Ken Tyrrell to work with too, without any written contract! Different times, but the drivers and driving have not changed.
Last edited by POBRatings on Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Solari12
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by Solari12 »

A top class driver and multiple world champion. He might talk much but you have to respect what the man did in his day.
He was brilliant setting the car up. And overall very clean and smooth.
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Kevin McDonald
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by Kevin McDonald »

Bollard wrote:I don't like how he's a smug guy now, and comments on everything about current drivers. It's a totally different day and age.


His opinions are still valid now; well, a lot more valid than nearly everything on this forum.

Skid Solo
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by Skid Solo »

Jim Hall once told the story of the Chaparral 2J sucker car and explained how they were very impressed by Vic Elford. How they found that he was every bit as quick as Jackie Stewart but a whole lot cheaper!

In 1970 Chris Amon was every bit as quick as Stewart when they were both driving March 701s. But Stewart was Ford's favoured driver with the incomparably better works development Cosworth DFVs that revved 7% higher with power to match.

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POBRatings
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by POBRatings »

Kevin McDonald wrote:
Bollard wrote:I don't like how he's a smug guy now, and comments on everything about current drivers. It's a totally different day and age.


His opinions are still valid now; well, a lot more valid than nearly everything on this forum.


Agree with you, KMcD, that JYS's opinions are very valid, he is so knowledgeable about everything in F1. He was a fantastic commentator too, could predict many race outcomes before they happened, by his knowledge of what went on in drivers' heads.

But Bollard has a point, many have been annoyed by JYS; two well-known journalists told that JYS always had opinions on every subject, no matter who he was with, and that he never stopped talking! Andretti did not like Stewart always publicly assessing rival drivers while racing against them. JYS always negatively ciriticised Mario publicly in magazines and as a commentator. Imo it was because rookie Andretti took pole from JYS on his debut at Watkins Glen in 1968, never having seen the track. However personality quirks should not be confused with driver abilities.
Last edited by POBRatings on Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mikeyg123
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by mikeyg123 »

The best of his era. For me he lies behind the big 5 that usually come up in the discussion for greatest ever, but ahead of everyone else.

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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by Fiki »

POBRatings wrote:Imo Stewart was about as good as Prost was in every sense

If a driver was as good as Prost (and he is the best I've ever seen), then that should require no further answer. Top drawer!
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number27
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by number27 »

POBRatings wrote:In none of Stewart's three WDCs did he have the fastest cars: niether 1969 nor 1971; in 1970 he was the only one to win a race in a March, which was too heavy and slow; in 1973 Stewart's last WDC his car was slower than the Peterson and Fittipaldi Lotuses, but Jackie shrewdly won five great races.


Sorry, but that's nonsense. Though JYS was a great driver (not as good as Jim Clark, though), he won his WDCs in cars that were at least the equal of the best machinery on the grid. In 1969, his Matra MS80 (rated by Stewart himself as the best car he ever drove) was the class of the field. The 1971 and 1973 Tyrrells were at least as good as the best that the opposition could muster. By 1973, Stewart was showing signs of being slightly in decline. His team-mate, Francois Cevert, was pretty much on Stewart's pace (having been largely in his shadow in '71 and '72, in spite of Stewart's health problems in the latter year) and finished second to him on three occasions. Indeed, Cevert was described by Stewart as being "an obedient team-mate", and we all know what that means. If, say, Ronnie Peterson had been in Stewart's car in 1973 there's no doubt that he'd have been the champion that year. Likewise Jochen Rindt would have strolled to the 1969 title if he'd had Stewart's Matra.

stranger
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by stranger »

Stewart was a phenomenal driver in all conditions and was a driver who drove from the heart, something you don't see much these days.

mac_d
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by mac_d »

I imagine the media asks JYS for his opinion, it's not like he phones the Times or the BBC TV crew and begs to air his opinion.

JYS, and I say this having never seen a full race of his given I was born in the late 80s, was class.


However, whoever told him he didn't need a ghostwriter for his book was very wrong. His book is hideously boring. I read quite a lot, but this book was amongst the most boring I have read.

Stuntman Mike
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by Stuntman Mike »

Master at Monaco. Master at Nordschleife. Master in the rain. One place short of being a winner in every season. Without the benefit of Chapman's nous. During the most lethal period. Moral victor at Indianapolis. Immediately on pace in CanAm Lola.
And he survived very much intact.
If you can imagine that Prost could do that, can you imagine that Prost would do that?
Car development skills: Parachuting Peterson into a Stewart-developed car is fatuous.
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tootsie323
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by tootsie323 »

Not too many years ago Jackie Stewart was called out on a claim that he could improve someone's lap time by twenty seconds. James May (Top Gear) was sent to Oulton Park with to meet Jackie and put this claim to the test, and Jackie suceeded. That can't be bad, for someone about thirty years after retirement from F1.
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POBRatings
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by POBRatings »

number27 wrote:
POBRatings wrote:In none of Stewart's three WDCs did he have the fastest cars: niether 1969 nor 1971; in 1970 he was the only one to win a race in a March, which was too heavy and slow; in 1973 Stewart's last WDC his car was slower than the Peterson and Fittipaldi Lotuses, but Jackie shrewdly won five great races.


Sorry, but that's nonsense. Though JYS was a great driver (not as good as Jim Clark, though), he won his WDCs in cars that were at least the equal of the best machinery on the grid. In 1969, his Matra MS80 (rated by Stewart himself as the best car he ever drove) was the class of the field. The 1971 and 1973 Tyrrells were at least as good as the best that the opposition could muster. By 1973, Stewart was showing signs of being slightly in decline. His team-mate, Francois Cevert, was pretty much on Stewart's pace (having been largely in his shadow in '71 and '72, in spite of Stewart's health problems in the latter year) and finished second to him on three occasions. Indeed, Cevert was described by Stewart as being "an obedient team-mate", and we all know what that means. If, say, Ronnie Peterson had been in Stewart's car in 1973 there's no doubt that he'd have been the champion that year. Likewise Jochen Rindt would have strolled to the 1969 title if he'd had Stewart's Matra.


Peterson was not good at car set-up; at Lotus in 1973 he just used Fittipaldi's settings; at Lotus in 1978 he just used Andretti's. Had he been at Tyrrell in 1973 without Stewart to do set-up, he'd not have done as well. When Peterson went to Tyrrell in 1977 he was quite a bit slower than Depailler. Do you think Stewart would have been shaded by Depailler?

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POBRatings
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by POBRatings »

Skid Solo wrote:Jim Hall once told the story of the Chaparral 2J sucker car and explained how they were very impressed by Vic Elford. How they found that he was every bit as quick as Jackie Stewart but a whole lot cheaper!

In 1970 Chris Amon was every bit as quick as Stewart when they were both driving March 701s. But Stewart was Ford's favoured driver with the incomparably better works development Cosworth DFVs that revved 7% higher with power to match.


Very good point you make about Stewart having superior Cosworth engines in his March. Other March drivers Andretti and Amon were actually close to Stewart's times, and maybe the difference was in fact due to the engines.
Imo Andretti was Stewart's equal, but Mario did not race full-time in his best years 1968-1975.

flyboy10
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by flyboy10 »

One of the best of his time.

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Biffa
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by Biffa »

I think he is one of the all time greats, both in the car and out of it, I don't think any other driver has done as much for driver safety.

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RacingFan1
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by RacingFan1 »

I dont get this question. Every driver has its own style because each person is different - even if both drivers have smooth style, they aren't gonna be exact copies, and each driver is a bit faster or a bit slower.

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Porsan
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by Porsan »

An all-time great who was THE reference driver in the early seventies. Extremely good.
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Andres125sx
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by Andres125sx »

I only can say when I played GPL (grand prix legends, pc game) around 10 year ago, stewart was the only driver I wasn´t able to chase, he was too fast :]

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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by funkymonkey »

As good as it gets. Not only as a driver but he put in so much effort during and after his retirement to make sport safer as well. Had it not been the likes of him constantly pestering FIA regarding safety aspect of the sport, the F1 of today could have been very different.
And to win 3 championship when he did and in the company of drivers that were on the grid, and the environment in which they raced with death all around them was monumental achievement.
He is probably the driver I respect the most in F1 history.

painless
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by painless »

POBRatings wrote:he is so knolwedgable


He is also, I believe, slightly dyslexic!!

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runningman67
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by runningman67 »

Good at what. I bet he's he best with the bagpipes. ;)

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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by Argentum »

showed promise. feel sure that, if he applied himself, he could have been a half decent driver.


Or... he was one of the greatest there has ever been.

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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by jono794 »

Don't forget, amongst everything else he also founded a team which eventually became Red Bull Racing.
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by Blake »

I used to kind of like Jackie Stewart .... then at one of the USGPs at Indy, he screwed it all up for me.

I will never view him the same again................. so what did he do, you ask?

He led a group of 100 bagpipes playing down the full length of the front straight. What an infernal racket! I can never forgive him for his part in that audio disaster! It should have been against the law!
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Siao7
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by Siao7 »

Anyone who can make "Captain Slow" go quicker, is good enough for me!

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Porsan
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by Porsan »

Blake wrote:I used to kind of like Jackie Stewart .... then at one of the USGPs at Indy, he screwed it all up for me.

I will never view him the same again................. so what did he do, you ask?

He led a group of 100 bagpipes playing down the full length of the front straight. What an infernal racket! I can never forgive him for his part in that audio disaster! It should have been against the law!
;)


You are completely right, Blake.

Only Fernando Alonso should be allowed to bring bagpipers with him, as he did in his title celebrations in Oviedo city.

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funkymonkey
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by funkymonkey »

SchumieRules wrote:Anyone who can make "Captain Slow" go quicker, is good enough for me!

That too in less than 24 hours. 8O

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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by POBRatings »

painless wrote:
POBRatings wrote:he is so knolwedgable


He is also, I believe, slightly dyslexic!!


Alrite, alrite! I was only on a owt lap and should of warmed up my tyrs before posting.

CarlPotter
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by CarlPotter »

His name always comes up in discussions of "Greatest Drivers of all Time" or "Top Ten Drivers Ever". I think that says enough about how good he was, really.

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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by Race2win »

painless wrote:
POBRatings wrote:he is so knolwedgable


He is also, I believe, slightly dyslexic!!

Is that even a thing? "Slightly Dyslexic" I thought Dyslexsia was, either you have it or you don't.
And I know he was.
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Siao7
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by Siao7 »

Race2win wrote:
painless wrote:
POBRatings wrote:he is so knolwedgable


He is also, I believe, slightly dyslexic!!

Is that even a thing? "Slightly Dyslexic" I thought Dyslexsia was, either you have it or you don't.
And I know he was.


I think you missed the point. He was commenting on POB for his mistake. Read a couple of posts above yours

Dash33
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by Dash33 »

I think the right answer was already posted: As good as it gets. 99 races, 27 wins I think. His smooth driving was even more important with the cars of his day. He learnt from the very best, Jim Clark. Should be included in any top 10 list, possibly top 5 or even higher. IMO.

Dash33
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Re: How good was Jackie Stewart?

Post by Dash33 »

I think the right answer was already posted: As good as it gets. 99 races, 27 wins I think. His smooth driving was even more important with the cars of his day. He learnt from the very best, Jim Clark. Should be included in any top 10 list, possibly top 5 or even higher. IMO.

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