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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:05 pm
by pokerman
Exediron wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:37 am
Badgeronimous wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:48 am
For every Lewis Hamilton there are 1000 families who spent a fortune and got nowhere in karts and 1000 club racers who dream of making it big and sink a fortune into going nowhere. Could easily have been Lewis as well if his hand was dealt different.
Even a series as high up the ladder as the British Touring Cars, none of the drivers are getting paid from the teams. Surprisingly few racing drivers making serious money out of being a racing driver (although a fair chunk already have a silver spoon in their mouth).
That's not a great situation, I'd agree. But I don't see it as being an argument in favor of paying the ones at the peak of the period absurd salaries to compensate.
As for drivers being worth what someone is willing to pay for them, that means Leclerc is worth quite a few million less than Ricciardo or Vettel (this year). Doesn't seem right.
Top athletes, much like teams, have always been and will likely always be able to leverage their image and success for additional income through sponsorship and endorsements. I don't see any reason they should also be paid an unreasonable amount more by their teams, particularly for a less funded team where that money is directly weakening the team as a result.
The bottom line for me is that drivers are paid as if they're the ones responsible for the success of their teams, when it's actually the other way around.
Leclerc didn't have enough leverage to negotiate for more money being a second year F1 driver, the contract he signed is almost identical to the contract Hamilton signed in his second year at McLaren, it was the next contract were Hamilton started earning big money also helped by being a WDC.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:19 pm
by F1Tyrant
Invade wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:48 pm
There's a strange connectivity in transitory performance between drivers which has handicapped the Prost/Senna era so profoundly that it demanded unprecedented dominance from them if they were to score in the same bracket as the likes of Alonso, Schumacher, Stewart, and even Hamilton, who scores lower than those three.
I think there are three major factors that causes the model to underrate the 1980s:
1) Piquet vs Schumacher in 1991.
2) Hill vs Prost in 1993 and Senna in 1994.
3) Lauda's strong performances in the 1980s in the twilight of his career relative to Prost with less experience.
I agree that the model is too rigid and it's certainly nonsensical to penalise the 80s as an era for Prost and Senna dominating together.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:21 pm
by Invade
F1Tyrant wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:19 pm
Invade wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:48 pm
There's a strange connectivity in transitory performance between drivers which has handicapped the Prost/Senna era so profoundly that it demanded unprecedented dominance from them if they were to score in the same bracket as the likes of Alonso, Schumacher, Stewart, and even Hamilton, who scores lower than those three.
I think there are three major factors that causes the model to underrate the 1980s:
1) Piquet vs Schumacher in 1991.
2) Hill vs Prost in 1993 and Senna in 1994.
3) Lauda's strong performances in the 1980s in the twilight of his career relative to Prost with less experience.
I agree that the model is too rigid and it's certainly nonsensical to penalise the 80s as an era for Prost and Senna dominating together.
I'd wager those as good calls on your part.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:25 pm
by tootsie323
Siao7 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:49 pm
Schumacher forever#1 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:04 pm
I'd definitely be opposed to driver salary caps. I think a salary should be negotiated between the team and driver, not decided by an external body.
If Mercedes cannot persuade Lewis to drive for them for $10 million, then that's their problem. A driver salary cap in this instance could potentially mean Lewis would walk out of F1 because he doesn't justify racing for such a (relatively) low salary. Do we really want an F1 where the best drivers consider hanging up their boots because they're not getting paid enough?
It's a free market, and any cap would reduce the negotiating powers of drivers and teams, creating an inefficient market.
I agree, but think of an alternative scenario; the drivers getting additional money from sponsors and Merc spends the £20m they save helping lower tier drivers or low paid factory personnel. That would also make some sense
Just listening to FP1 on the radio and the team there are saying that the drivers are restricted to the amount of personal sponsorship they can obtain - apparently, by the teams? Is this correct?
Someone also pointed out that if the powers-that-be are actively working to bring the cars closer together, won't that mean that the driver will make more of a difference? And would this be against the backdrop of limiting their salary?
Interesting discussion points.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:39 pm
by Siao7
tootsie323 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:25 pm
Siao7 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:49 pm
Schumacher forever#1 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:04 pm
I'd definitely be opposed to driver salary caps. I think a salary should be negotiated between the team and driver, not decided by an external body.
If Mercedes cannot persuade Lewis to drive for them for $10 million, then that's their problem. A driver salary cap in this instance could potentially mean Lewis would walk out of F1 because he doesn't justify racing for such a (relatively) low salary. Do we really want an F1 where the best drivers consider hanging up their boots because they're not getting paid enough?
It's a free market, and any cap would reduce the negotiating powers of drivers and teams, creating an inefficient market.
I agree, but think of an alternative scenario; the drivers getting additional money from sponsors and Merc spends the £20m they save helping lower tier drivers or low paid factory personnel. That would also make some sense
Just listening to FP1 on the radio and the team there are saying that the drivers are restricted to the amount of personal sponsorship they can obtain - apparently, by the teams? Is this correct?
Someone also pointed out that if the powers-that-be are actively working to bring the cars closer together, won't that mean that the driver will make more of a difference? And would this be against the backdrop of limiting their salary?
Interesting discussion points.
Indeed, very interesting discussion. I guess their personal sponsorship cannot interfere with the teams' sponsors, they could have conflict of interests, so the teams may restrict the drivers' personal sponsors. I can see why, if this is the case.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:58 pm
by Exediron
pokerman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:58 pm
In a free market you don't limit what sportsmen are being paid, people that pay them see value in it, also in F1 it's different because I believe the commercial rights of the drivers is owned by the teams and they can earn money from that, money that other sportsmen keep for themselves.
That's true. But you shouldn't assume I'm automatically a proponent of the so-called 'free market'.
I could write a whole lot more here, but the bottom line is that I think the free market is a dangerous illusion, used to mask the actual plutocracy we live in as a meritocracy.
The concept of valuation by what employers are willing and able to pay is inherently flawed in any field with objective performance, as well.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:21 pm
by pokerman
tootsie323 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:25 pm
Siao7 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:49 pm
Schumacher forever#1 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:04 pm
I'd definitely be opposed to driver salary caps. I think a salary should be negotiated between the team and driver, not decided by an external body.
If Mercedes cannot persuade Lewis to drive for them for $10 million, then that's their problem. A driver salary cap in this instance could potentially mean Lewis would walk out of F1 because he doesn't justify racing for such a (relatively) low salary. Do we really want an F1 where the best drivers consider hanging up their boots because they're not getting paid enough?
It's a free market, and any cap would reduce the negotiating powers of drivers and teams, creating an inefficient market.
I agree, but think of an alternative scenario; the drivers getting additional money from sponsors and Merc spends the £20m they save helping lower tier drivers or low paid factory personnel. That would also make some sense
Just listening to FP1 on the radio and the team there are saying that the drivers are restricted to the amount of personal sponsorship they can obtain - apparently, by the teams? Is this correct?
Someone also pointed out that if the powers-that-be are actively working to bring the cars closer together, won't that mean that the driver will make more of a difference? And would this be against the backdrop of limiting their salary?
Interesting discussion points.
The drivers make more of a difference but aren't necessarily compensated for it because if they are then less money can then be spent on their car making their car slower, is this what it should be about?
Complaints are of equalising car performance but potentially we might introducing a system that equalises driver performance.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:25 pm
by pokerman
Exediron wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:58 pm
pokerman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:58 pm
In a free market you don't limit what sportsmen are being paid, people that pay them see value in it, also in F1 it's different because I believe the commercial rights of the drivers is owned by the teams and they can earn money from that, money that other sportsmen keep for themselves.
That's true. But you shouldn't assume I'm automatically a proponent of the so-called 'free market'.
I could write a whole lot more here, but the bottom line is that I think the free market is a dangerous illusion, used to mask the actual plutocracy we live in as a meritocracy.
The concept of valuation by what employers are willing and able to pay is inherently flawed in any field with objective performance, as well.
The opposite of that would be communism were people aren't being paid extra for being that bit better so why bother trying to be better.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:41 pm
by F1Tyrant
Never thought I'd see a thread about Lewis Hamilton descend into Communism vs Capitalism but here we are...
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:54 pm
by Asphalt_World
Great t-shirt today, Lewis.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:25 pm
by BMWSauber84
F1Tyrant wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:41 pm
Never thought I'd see a thread about Lewis Hamilton descend into Communism vs Capitalism but here we are...
Never underestimate Lewis Hamilton online discussion
Still, it could be worse. If this was youtube, Hitler would have been mentioned by now.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:15 pm
by Invade
All right.
So I think this is Hamilton's golden opportunity to challenge Vettel's record of 9 straight wins. It would be across seasons however, and not within a single season.
He'll be the favourite for the remaining two races, and winning them would put him on 7 consecutive wins. He'd equal Schumacher's (and Rosberg's!) best streak with that figure.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:40 pm
by mikeyg123
Nine wins in a row is a harder achievement now we have things like random safety cars to shake up the order.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:40 pm
by F1Tyrant
Invade wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:15 pm
So I think this is Hamilton's golden opportunity to challenge Vettel's record of 9 straight wins.
Absolutely! I've found it quite remarkable that Hamilton has stayed so consistent in beating his teammate 66% of the time and not managed a purple patch of 5 wins since 2014!
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:11 am
by Exediron
pokerman wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:25 pm
The opposite of that would be communism were people aren't being paid extra for being that bit better so why bother trying to be better.
Yes, and the opposite of the car making all the difference is a spec series.
Sometimes, it's the thing in between that's best.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:12 am
by Siao7
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:54 pm
Great t-shirt today, Lewis.
What was it?
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:12 am
by Siao7
F1Tyrant wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:41 pm
Never thought I'd see a thread about Lewis Hamilton descend into Communism vs Capitalism but here we are...
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:34 pm
by pokerman
Exediron wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:11 am
pokerman wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:25 pm
The opposite of that would be communism were people aren't being paid extra for being that bit better so why bother trying to be better.
Yes, and the opposite of the car making all the difference is a spec series.
Sometimes, it's the thing in between that's best.
What is being proposed is potentially an equalising of driver performance, if a driver wants rewarding to the level he thinks he should be then he has to expect to drive a slower car, also this being a Hamilton thread it might expediate his retirement as well.
Also in the aftermath of Grosjean's horrific crash it casts a shadow on Tost's remarks that drivers should merely be grateful for being able to compete in F1 and just except whatever money they are offered.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:11 pm
by Asphalt_World
Siao7 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:12 am
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:54 pm
Great t-shirt today, Lewis.
What was it?
I can't remember exactly, but it not only mentioned racism but also that immigration is a positive thing and also some other important issues. People can go on about sport not being political, but like it or not, sport certainly is, especially at such a high profile level. Plus, with F1 talking about the #weraceasone all the time, the t-shirt got 10 out of 10 from me.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:13 pm
by JN23
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:11 pm
Siao7 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:12 am
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:54 pm
Great t-shirt today, Lewis.
What was it?
I can't remember exactly, but it not only mentioned racism but also that immigration is a positive thing and also some other important issues. People can go on about sport not being political, but like it or not, sport certainly is, especially at such a high profile level. Plus, with F1 talking about the #weraceasone all the time, the t-shirt got 10 out of 10 from me.
Yeah I liked it too
Black Lives Matter, women’s rights are human rights, immigration is a good thing, science is real, love is love.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:29 am
by Alienturnedhuman
Hamilton has tested positive for COVID19 so will miss the Sakhir GP, according to the F1 Facebook page.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:36 am
by tootsie323
Alienturnedhuman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:29 am
Hamilton has tested positive for COVID19 so will miss the Sakhir GP, according to the F1 Facebook page.
Also breaking news on the BBC. So -who will fill his boots for that race?
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:44 am
by Asphalt_World
Come on Mercedes. Get George Russel in that No 44 car........
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:11 am
by Siao7
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:11 pm
Siao7 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:12 am
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:54 pm
Great t-shirt today, Lewis.
What was it?
I can't remember exactly, but it not only mentioned racism but also that immigration is a positive thing and also some other important issues. People can go on about sport not being political, but like it or not, sport certainly is, especially at such a high profile level. Plus, with F1 talking about the #weraceasone all the time, the t-shirt got 10 out of 10 from me.
Ok, thank you. Sounds like a nice message
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:13 am
by JN23
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:44 am
Come on Mercedes. Get George Russel in that No 44 car........
Imagine if they did and he has a nightmare whilst his Williams replacement scores points
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:01 pm
by Johnson
A speedy recovery to Lewis, it just shows how hard consecutive race wins is. Without the Russia and Monza penalties he might be on 10 wins now and if Silverstone didn’t have freakishly hot weather that day, 14 straight wins! But then again he got a bit lucky at San Marino.
I am actually looking forward to seeing his replacement, I would be surprised if he can get near Bottas though.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:03 pm
by Johnson
Also, there goes the consecutive race start record. First race he has ever missed
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:15 pm
by JN23
Johnson wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:03 pm
Also, there goes the consecutive race start record. First race he has ever missed
Would the consecutive race start continue when he next enters a race? Consecutive entries is gone but would start apply only when he enters?
Same for wins... if he comes back and wins his next race does that mean six consecutive wins or does he start again at one?
Not that it matters, just curious.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:21 pm
by F1Tyrant
Hamilton's consecutive starts record should still be intact but his consecutive entries, wins and points finishes ends with his win on Sunday!
Amazing to think that the last 20 years have either had Michael Schumacher or Lewis Hamilton starting in every single race.
On another note, I hope he clears COVID-19 quickly. People can test positive for 90 days after infection. If he's really unlucky that could compromise his off season.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:35 pm
by -K-
Wishing Lewis a speedy recovery.
He says he doesn’t care about records but I do wonder if the end of those streaks will bother him deep down.
A cautionary tale for all to learn from if he has not celebrated his title at all and still ended up catching it.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:22 pm
by pokerman
-K- wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:35 pm
Wishing Lewis a speedy recovery.
He says he doesn’t care about records but I do wonder if the end of those streaks will bother him deep down.
A cautionary tale for all to learn from if he has not celebrated his title at all and still ended up catching it.
The problem is that even if you are living mostly as a hermit the odd person you come into contact with might not be doing the same.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:28 pm
by Alienturnedhuman
Silverstone have renamed the start finish straight to the "Hamilton Straight" in honour of him reaching 7x WDC and his achievements in Formula 1:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/silv ... n/4925980/
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:27 pm
by cmax
This deserves its own thread mate. Would you do the honours.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:02 pm
by Alienturnedhuman
Hamilton has won BBC Sports Personality of the Year 2020.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:04 pm
by pokerman
Alienturnedhuman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:02 pm
Hamilton has won BBC Sports Personality of the Year 2020.
I might have snuck in a vote.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:07 pm
by Asphalt_World
This result is excellent, if only for the racist idiots on social media throwing their toys out of their prams in record numbers.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:07 pm
by Asphalt_World
pokerman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:04 pm
Alienturnedhuman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:02 pm
Hamilton has won BBC Sports Personality of the Year 2020.
I might have snuck in a vote.
So did I.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:09 pm
by JN23
Well done to Lewis, absolutely deserved!
Asphalt_World wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:07 pm
This result is excellent, if only for the racist idiots on social media throwing their toys out of their prams in record numbers.
You love to see it.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:15 pm
by Asphalt_World
Someone on twitter is claiming the wrong person won and that they don't care if people call him racist for that opinion. They said Rashford should have one instead!
Rashford is black......
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:30 pm
by mikeyg123
Would have been a travesty if he didn't win it.