He's done like a gazillion laps round Barcelona. As soon as Verstappen passed Bottas at the start all he had to do was cruise round... pretty much any pro driver could have done that
Nah.
Read Mark Hughes' race report and what he heard from inside the Mercedes team. After all, Hughes does tend to write very sober appraisals of performance which reflect the actual perception within the paddock.
If he can keep the 50% win rate going this season and next season then he has all the major records, so far with 4 wins in 6 races he's batting above that so it' a great start.
Let's not also forget the 4 pole positions that keeps him on course for 100 poles as well as the 100 race wins that would be achievable next year, bag that with 8 titles and he could retire although I know he won't.
Lewis probably will be at about 50% for 2020-2021, so at this stage it looks like he'll reach your suggested numbers and be the sole record holder for WDCs. But I'm curious about what spanners the FIA will try to throw into the works here and how adversely it could affect the team.
Also, I do find it strange that there hasn't even been any real reported discussions about a new contract. There appears to be some uncertainty over the future of both Toto and Lewis and it gets curiouser and curiouser by the week. What's cookin'?
On the contract, Hamilton said before Silverstone 2 (I think 2, not 1) that he felt uncomfortable about signing a new contract whilst there are redundancies being made all over the place due to the worsening global economy. He'll have to sign a contract at some point though as that probably isn't going to change.
It was also reported last week that Hamilton said Toto's future will have no bearing on his and he wants to stay at Mercedes regardless. His only other option at this stage is probably retirement so it's probably just a matter of time. I wouldn't be surprised if there's movement in the next week and a bit with there being time off from racing this weekend.
So far, I'd say Hamilton's opening phase of the 2020 season has been stronger than his 2018 and 2017 campaigns and also slightly better than his 2019 campaign. In 2019, I don't think Hamilton hit the purple patches he hit in 2017 and 2018 but he was slightly more consistent and balanced in his performance throughout the whole season in the races. 2020 is looking at least as strong or stronger and at this stage his season has already had two standout performances, with a legendary pole lap at the Styrian GP and a near flawless race performance in the Spanish GP.
Will Hamilton's form continue?
He's done like a gazillion laps round Barcelona. As soon as Verstappen passed Bottas at the start all he had to do was cruise round... pretty much any pro driver could have done that
Apart from Bottas who was flat out trying to catch Verstappen, it didn't look much of a cruise for him.
He's done like a gazillion laps round Barcelona. As soon as Verstappen passed Bottas at the start all he had to do was cruise round... pretty much any pro driver could have done that
Nah.
Read Mark Hughes' race report and what he heard from inside the Mercedes team. After all, Hughes does tend to write very sober appraisals of performance which reflect the actual perception within the paddock.
If he can keep the 50% win rate going this season and next season then he has all the major records, so far with 4 wins in 6 races he's batting above that so it' a great start.
Let's not also forget the 4 pole positions that keeps him on course for 100 poles as well as the 100 race wins that would be achievable next year, bag that with 8 titles and he could retire although I know he won't.
Lewis probably will be at about 50% for 2020-2021, so at this stage it looks like he'll reach your suggested numbers and be the sole record holder for WDCs. But I'm curious about what spanners the FIA will try to throw into the works here and how adversely it could affect the team.
Also, I do find it strange that there hasn't even been any real reported discussions about a new contract. There appears to be some uncertainty over the future of both Toto and Lewis and it gets curiouser and curiouser by the week. What's cookin'?
You don't take him at his word that he's uncomfortable signing a new big contract admist people losing their jobs, he makes it ackward for himself with all the political crusading he does.
If he can keep the 50% win rate going this season and next season then he has all the major records, so far with 4 wins in 6 races he's batting above that so it' a great start.
Let's not also forget the 4 pole positions that keeps him on course for 100 poles as well as the 100 race wins that would be achievable next year, bag that with 8 titles and he could retire although I know he won't.
How many podiums do you reckon Mr.Hamilton will end up with?
I reckon ~220. Retiring after 3 years of the new regs.
I think he will break the 200 mark which we can view as another milestone, by the way a new 3 year contract just takes him into 2 years of the new regs.
He's done like a gazillion laps round Barcelona. As soon as Verstappen passed Bottas at the start all he had to do was cruise round... pretty much any pro driver could have done that
Nah.
Read Mark Hughes' race report and what he heard from inside the Mercedes team. After all, Hughes does tend to write very sober appraisals of performance which reflect the actual perception within the paddock.
If he can keep the 50% win rate going this season and next season then he has all the major records, so far with 4 wins in 6 races he's batting above that so it' a great start.
Let's not also forget the 4 pole positions that keeps him on course for 100 poles as well as the 100 race wins that would be achievable next year, bag that with 8 titles and he could retire although I know he won't.
Lewis probably will be at about 50% for 2020-2021, so at this stage it looks like he'll reach your suggested numbers and be the sole record holder for WDCs. But I'm curious about what spanners the FIA will try to throw into the works here and how adversely it could affect the team.
Also, I do find it strange that there hasn't even been any real reported discussions about a new contract. There appears to be some uncertainty over the future of both Toto and Lewis and it gets curiouser and curiouser by the week. What's cookin'?
You don't take him at his word that he's uncomfortable signing a new big contract admist people losing their jobs, he makes it ackward for himself with all the political crusading he does.
He is quite lucky with Mercedes, he wants to stay there and they seem willing to wait for him (and frankly why wouldn't they?). Hamilton expressed his intentions to stay there, so it is just a matter of agreeing the $$'s and the duration; should be a 5' meeting! He is a lucky man to have this luxury, which of course he has earned on track.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:45 am
by Invade
I bet it will be more like a 5-hour meeting, or longer. Didn't their last contract negotiation take all day? Toto and Lewis are fierce competitors in negotiations.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:23 pm
by Invade
55:00 will be of particular interest to Hamilton fans, I should think.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:22 pm
by f1madman
So is Lewis Goat now?
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:34 pm
by BMWSauber84
Pointless fact time. While Hamilton has now one 92 races compared to 91 for Schumacher, they have both crossed the line in first place 92 times.
Schumacher and Hamilton both "won" the Belgian grand Prix in 1994 and 2008 respectively but both lost the win after the race. Hamilton crossed the line second in the 2019 Canadian grand Prix but won the race die to Vettel having a 5 second penalty.
If at some point, Lewis has a few years like Sebastian has had recently, I am sure that his detractors will come out in force and even Lewis' supporters might modify their opinions.
If at some point, Lewis has a few years like Sebastian has had recently, I am sure that his detractors will come out in force and even Lewis' supporters might modify their opinions.
I don't think he will. Hamilton as a rookie coped with Alonso and he went on beating calibres like Button and Rosberg. That's more than Vettel (or even Schumacher) ever did.
If at some point, Lewis has a few years like Sebastian has had recently, I am sure that his detractors will come out in force and even Lewis' supporters might modify their opinions.
Well I guess that will have to happen in the next 3 years, I can't see Bottas turning the tables next year, so then we're down to 2 years with Hamilton pushing towards 40 which can be a nice get out.
If at some point, Lewis has a few years like Sebastian has had recently, I am sure that his detractors will come out in force and even Lewis' supporters might modify their opinions.
Well I guess that will have to happen in the next 3 years, I can't see Bottas turning the tables next year, so then we're down to 2 years with Hamilton pushing towards 40 which can be a nice get out.
Well, Lewis could get out at the top of his game or at least before his results have begun to significantly diminish. Michael Schumacher picked about the right time for his first retirement. Lewis may do the same. A slow fade into mediocrity doesn't do much for a champion's place in history.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:29 am
by TheGiantHogweed
Interesting that excluding Hamilton, every other win on the grid added up by the drivers on the current grid is just 10 more than Hamilton has archived at 102.
If at some point, Lewis has a few years like Sebastian has had recently, I am sure that his detractors will come out in force and even Lewis' supporters might modify their opinions.
Well I guess that will have to happen in the next 3 years, I can't see Bottas turning the tables next year, so then we're down to 2 years with Hamilton pushing towards 40 which can be a nice get out.
Well, Lewis could get out at the top of his game or at least before his results have begun to significantly diminish. Michael Schumacher picked about the right time for his first retirement. Lewis may do the same. A slow fade into mediocrity doesn't do much for a champion's place in history.
This is partly what I think about Vettel. I don't think Hamilton now is a whole lot better than Vettel was at his best. Vettel's consecutive number of race wins is still to be beaten. But by a lot of people, (not everyone) They seem to judge Vettel as simply not being able to go against Hamilton without breaking down. In that era, Vettel a great deal of the time looked so dominant and one of the years just happened to be a bad year for Hamilton.
Vettel currently is not anywhere near his best and I just hope he can do a turn around like he did in 2015. Maybe not at his best ever level, but still very good.
The only reason I've been disagreeing with some people's views on it being impossible for Bottas to have a chance on beating hamilton is that I still see one and only chance that is small, but possible. And that is only if Hamilton starts to fade (could be any time in the next few years), mercedes continue to dominate and Bottas is kept for a few more seasons. That wouldn't be impossible. But it wouldn't look great and if Hamilton stays as long as Vettel after his peak and something like this happens, he may also be remembered for similar things to Vettel despite his records.
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:15 am
by Invade
For me, the main ??? for Hamilton is his desire. When will he let up? We take for granted his general show of force and his persistent motivation and focus, but when will it wane? When will he start "burning out"? It happened to Michael, by his own admission. He felt he was spent.
If Hamilton gets to 7 WDCs, which looks extremely likely right now, might he have a let-down? Might something change psychologically inside him or are such milestones genuinely not so critical to him? — That it's not a benchmark which could change his general desire for winning?
Hamilton has been so consistently hungry for success that it becomes easy to take that passion for granted at this stage, but it can't be easy to maintain this level of sustained excellence and focus.
However, he'd have to really collapse to lose to Bottas, and I'm not trying to disrespect Bottas here but at the moment there is a big difference between them generally in race craft and race pace. The only other possibility I could see is that somehow the car characteristics moving forward would trip up Hamilton and embolden Bottas, but I find that highly doubtful.
If at some point, Lewis has a few years like Sebastian has had recently, I am sure that his detractors will come out in force and even Lewis' supporters might modify their opinions.
Well I guess that will have to happen in the next 3 years, I can't see Bottas turning the tables next year, so then we're down to 2 years with Hamilton pushing towards 40 which can be a nice get out.
Well, Lewis could get out at the top of his game or at least before his results have begun to significantly diminish. Michael Schumacher picked about the right time for his first retirement. Lewis may do the same. A slow fade into mediocrity doesn't do much for a champion's place in history.
This is partly what I think about Vettel. I don't think Hamilton now is a whole lot better than Vettel was at his best. Vettel's consecutive number of race wins is still to be beaten. But by a lot of people, (not everyone) They seem to judge Vettel as simply not being able to go against Hamilton without breaking down. In that era, Vettel a great deal of the time looked so dominant and one of the years just happened to be a bad year for Hamilton.
Vettel currently is not anywhere near his best and I just hope he can do a turn around like he did in 2015. Maybe not at his best ever level, but still very good.
The only reason I've been disagreeing with some people's views on it being impossible for Bottas to have a chance on beating hamilton is that I still see one and only chance that is small, but possible. And that is only if Hamilton starts to fade (could be any time in the next few years), mercedes continue to dominate and Bottas is kept for a few more seasons. That wouldn't be impossible. But it wouldn't look great and if Hamilton stays as long as Vettel after his peak and something like this happens, he may also be remembered for similar things to Vettel despite his records.
Vettel was never as devastatingly good in every department as Hamilton is now. The way the safety car has been used in the last few years (and latterly red flags) it's pretty much impossible to rack up a long string of wins. Personally I think Hamilton was a bit better than Vettel 2010-13 and Hamilton is now a much better driver than he was then.
Bottas' trouble is that Hamilton would have to have a huge drop off. Hamilton, with his skill set, I think could afford to be slower than Bottas and still beat him over a season. He can manage race far better and has near perfect risk/reward analysis.
For me, the main ??? for Hamilton is his desire. When will he let up? We take for granted his general show of force and his persistent motivation and focus, but when will it wane? When will he start "burning out"? It happened to Michael, by his own admission. He felt he was spent.
If Hamilton gets to 7 WDCs, which looks extremely likely right now, might he have a let-down? Might something change psychologically inside him or are such milestones genuinely not so critical to him? — That it's not a benchmark which could change his general desire for winning?
Hamilton has been so consistently hungry for success that it becomes easy to take that passion for granted at this stage, but it can't be easy to maintain this level of sustained excellence and focus.
However, he'd have to really collapse to lose to Bottas, and I'm not trying to disrespect Bottas here but at the moment there is a big difference between them generally in race craft and race pace. The only other possibility I could see is that somehow the car characteristics moving forward would trip up Hamilton and embolden Bottas, but I find that highly doubtful.
Channel 4 interviews asked that very question of Toto and his father. Neither indicated he was losing appetite. Toto said he has been waiting to fall of the cliff for years but it never happens. Perhaps that is the point where the question needs to be asked again. You would have to think 8 titles and 120 wins was the minimum though wouldn't you?
For me, the main ??? for Hamilton is his desire. When will he let up? We take for granted his general show of force and his persistent motivation and focus, but when will it wane? When will he start "burning out"? It happened to Michael, by his own admission. He felt he was spent.
If Hamilton gets to 7 WDCs, which looks extremely likely right now, might he have a let-down? Might something change psychologically inside him or are such milestones genuinely not so critical to him? — That it's not a benchmark which could change his general desire for winning?
Hamilton has been so consistently hungry for success that it becomes easy to take that passion for granted at this stage, but it can't be easy to maintain this level of sustained excellence and focus.
However, he'd have to really collapse to lose to Bottas, and I'm not trying to disrespect Bottas here but at the moment there is a big difference between them generally in race craft and race pace. The only other possibility I could see is that somehow the car characteristics moving forward would trip up Hamilton and embolden Bottas, but I find that highly doubtful.
Channel 4 interviews asked that very question of Toto and his father. Neither indicated he was losing appetite. Toto said he has been waiting to fall of the cliff for years but it never happens. Perhaps that is the point where the question needs to be asked again. You would have to think 8 titles and 120 wins was the minimum though wouldn't you?
I think it depends what happens in 2022. Merc might not make the best of the new regs. Usually with big changes to the regs the front runners slip back.
For me, the main ??? for Hamilton is his desire. When will he let up? We take for granted his general show of force and his persistent motivation and focus, but when will it wane? When will he start "burning out"? It happened to Michael, by his own admission. He felt he was spent.
If Hamilton gets to 7 WDCs, which looks extremely likely right now, might he have a let-down? Might something change psychologically inside him or are such milestones genuinely not so critical to him? — That it's not a benchmark which could change his general desire for winning?
Hamilton has been so consistently hungry for success that it becomes easy to take that passion for granted at this stage, but it can't be easy to maintain this level of sustained excellence and focus.
However, he'd have to really collapse to lose to Bottas, and I'm not trying to disrespect Bottas here but at the moment there is a big difference between them generally in race craft and race pace. The only other possibility I could see is that somehow the car characteristics moving forward would trip up Hamilton and embolden Bottas, but I find that highly doubtful.
Channel 4 interviews asked that very question of Toto and his father. Neither indicated he was losing appetite. Toto said he has been waiting to fall of the cliff for years but it never happens. Perhaps that is the point where the question needs to be asked again. You would have to think 8 titles and 120 wins was the minimum though wouldn't you?
I would also add a little note that Hamilton is pretty comfortable at Mercedes at the moment, no reason to quit frankly unless he gets seriously bored or something drastically changes. Schumacher was spent in Ferrari, but he had more issues there with internal politics, especially towards the last few years there.
Anyway, still feels unreal what Hamilton has accomplished. Frankly we all knew it would happen sooner or later, but still it is so amazing to actually see that he did it. I mean, he'll never have to buy a drink in a pub ever again; now that's an achievement!!! We are witnessing history being made in front of us, how lucky are we?
If at some point, Lewis has a few years like Sebastian has had recently, I am sure that his detractors will come out in force and even Lewis' supporters might modify their opinions.
Well I guess that will have to happen in the next 3 years, I can't see Bottas turning the tables next year, so then we're down to 2 years with Hamilton pushing towards 40 which can be a nice get out.
Well, Lewis could get out at the top of his game or at least before his results have begun to significantly diminish. Michael Schumacher picked about the right time for his first retirement. Lewis may do the same. A slow fade into mediocrity doesn't do much for a champion's place in history.
No I would say that Schumacher retired 2 years too early, surely he would have bagged the 2007 and 2008 titles, also I would say he got somewhat forced out by LDM with the signing of Kimi and thus the taking away of his #1 status, which inpart may explain why Schumacher later returned?
Hamilton this weekend implied that his next contract will be his last contract, rumours are of a 3 year contract, this would take him to 38 just a few months short of his 39th birthday, I would say a reasonable age to retire.
Interesting that excluding Hamilton, every other win on the grid added up by the drivers on the current grid is just 10 more than Hamilton has archived at 102.
If at some point, Lewis has a few years like Sebastian has had recently, I am sure that his detractors will come out in force and even Lewis' supporters might modify their opinions.
Well I guess that will have to happen in the next 3 years, I can't see Bottas turning the tables next year, so then we're down to 2 years with Hamilton pushing towards 40 which can be a nice get out.
Well, Lewis could get out at the top of his game or at least before his results have begun to significantly diminish. Michael Schumacher picked about the right time for his first retirement. Lewis may do the same. A slow fade into mediocrity doesn't do much for a champion's place in history.
This is partly what I think about Vettel. I don't think Hamilton now is a whole lot better than Vettel was at his best. Vettel's consecutive number of race wins is still to be beaten. But by a lot of people, (not everyone) They seem to judge Vettel as simply not being able to go against Hamilton without breaking down. In that era, Vettel a great deal of the time looked so dominant and one of the years just happened to be a bad year for Hamilton.
Vettel currently is not anywhere near his best and I just hope he can do a turn around like he did in 2015. Maybe not at his best ever level, but still very good.
The only reason I've been disagreeing with some people's views on it being impossible for Bottas to have a chance on beating hamilton is that I still see one and only chance that is small, but possible. And that is only if Hamilton starts to fade (could be any time in the next few years), mercedes continue to dominate and Bottas is kept for a few more seasons. That wouldn't be impossible. But it wouldn't look great and if Hamilton stays as long as Vettel after his peak and something like this happens, he may also be remembered for similar things to Vettel despite his records.
It's a totally different scenario if a driver is seen to fade at 38/39, that can be put down to age, a driver like Vettel being judged to have faded in his early 30s is less believable in particular if it coincided with having stronger teammates, in fact he was only 27 when he was given the run around by Ricciardo, then the following year 2015 as you say he was seen as back to his best or was it just having a weaker teammate?
If at some point, Lewis has a few years like Sebastian has had recently, I am sure that his detractors will come out in force and even Lewis' supporters might modify their opinions.
Well I guess that will have to happen in the next 3 years, I can't see Bottas turning the tables next year, so then we're down to 2 years with Hamilton pushing towards 40 which can be a nice get out.
Well, Lewis could get out at the top of his game or at least before his results have begun to significantly diminish. Michael Schumacher picked about the right time for his first retirement. Lewis may do the same. A slow fade into mediocrity doesn't do much for a champion's place in history.
This is partly what I think about Vettel. I don't think Hamilton now is a whole lot better than Vettel was at his best. Vettel's consecutive number of race wins is still to be beaten. But by a lot of people, (not everyone) They seem to judge Vettel as simply not being able to go against Hamilton without breaking down. In that era, Vettel a great deal of the time looked so dominant and one of the years just happened to be a bad year for Hamilton.
Vettel currently is not anywhere near his best and I just hope he can do a turn around like he did in 2015. Maybe not at his best ever level, but still very good.
The only reason I've been disagreeing with some people's views on it being impossible for Bottas to have a chance on beating hamilton is that I still see one and only chance that is small, but possible. And that is only if Hamilton starts to fade (could be any time in the next few years), mercedes continue to dominate and Bottas is kept for a few more seasons. That wouldn't be impossible. But it wouldn't look great and if Hamilton stays as long as Vettel after his peak and something like this happens, he may also be remembered for similar things to Vettel despite his records.
It's a totally different scenario if a driver is seen to fade at 38/39, that can be put down to age, a driver like Vettel being judged to have faded in his early 30s is less believable in particular if it coincided with having stronger teammates, in fact he was only 27 when he was given the run around by Ricciardo, then the following year 2015 as you say he was seen as back to his best or was it just having a weaker teammate?
It is of course possible Vettel has very up and down form, and/or is shot by the age 32. Plenty examples across sport of similar.
Looks wise, Vettel has aged a lot in the last couple of years - for a guy who (in the not too distant past) looked a few years younger than he was, to somebody that looks a good 5-6 years older than he actually is. Not that has anything to do with sporting performance - but it's usually a good pointer towards stress.
For me, the main ??? for Hamilton is his desire. When will he let up? We take for granted his general show of force and his persistent motivation and focus, but when will it wane? When will he start "burning out"? It happened to Michael, by his own admission. He felt he was spent.
If Hamilton gets to 7 WDCs, which looks extremely likely right now, might he have a let-down? Might something change psychologically inside him or are such milestones genuinely not so critical to him? — That it's not a benchmark which could change his general desire for winning?
Hamilton has been so consistently hungry for success that it becomes easy to take that passion for granted at this stage, but it can't be easy to maintain this level of sustained excellence and focus.
However, he'd have to really collapse to lose to Bottas, and I'm not trying to disrespect Bottas here but at the moment there is a big difference between them generally in race craft and race pace. The only other possibility I could see is that somehow the car characteristics moving forward would trip up Hamilton and embolden Bottas, but I find that highly doubtful.
Channel 4 interviews asked that very question of Toto and his father. Neither indicated he was losing appetite. Toto said he has been waiting to fall of the cliff for years but it never happens. Perhaps that is the point where the question needs to be asked again. You would have to think 8 titles and 120 wins was the minimum though wouldn't you?
I think it depends what happens in 2022. Merc might not make the best of the new regs. Usually with big changes to the regs the front runners slip back.
Key to that might be the word "might", Toto Wolff is very thorough, even if he left you would think that he already has plans in place to develop a strong package even if they are banned from developing it.
I don't know if the removal of the MGU-H will affect some engines differently, is there a difference between manufacturers in the amount of recovered energy from these units? If so that might affect the performance of the Mercedes package.
If at some point, Lewis has a few years like Sebastian has had recently, I am sure that his detractors will come out in force and even Lewis' supporters might modify their opinions.
Well I guess that will have to happen in the next 3 years, I can't see Bottas turning the tables next year, so then we're down to 2 years with Hamilton pushing towards 40 which can be a nice get out.
Well, Lewis could get out at the top of his game or at least before his results have begun to significantly diminish. Michael Schumacher picked about the right time for his first retirement. Lewis may do the same. A slow fade into mediocrity doesn't do much for a champion's place in history.
This is partly what I think about Vettel. I don't think Hamilton now is a whole lot better than Vettel was at his best. Vettel's consecutive number of race wins is still to be beaten. But by a lot of people, (not everyone) They seem to judge Vettel as simply not being able to go against Hamilton without breaking down. In that era, Vettel a great deal of the time looked so dominant and one of the years just happened to be a bad year for Hamilton.
Vettel currently is not anywhere near his best and I just hope he can do a turn around like he did in 2015. Maybe not at his best ever level, but still very good.
The only reason I've been disagreeing with some people's views on it being impossible for Bottas to have a chance on beating hamilton is that I still see one and only chance that is small, but possible. And that is only if Hamilton starts to fade (could be any time in the next few years), mercedes continue to dominate and Bottas is kept for a few more seasons. That wouldn't be impossible. But it wouldn't look great and if Hamilton stays as long as Vettel after his peak and something like this happens, he may also be remembered for similar things to Vettel despite his records.
It's a totally different scenario if a driver is seen to fade at 38/39, that can be put down to age, a driver like Vettel being judged to have faded in his early 30s is less believable in particular if it coincided with having stronger teammates, in fact he was only 27 when he was given the run around by Ricciardo, then the following year 2015 as you say he was seen as back to his best or was it just having a weaker teammate?
I thought I implied I wasn't sure if he was back to his best level. But I still do think he was very strong that year and arguably was actually better than Hamilton.
I am aware the age is pretty different between the two with things we are comparing.
Well I guess that will have to happen in the next 3 years, I can't see Bottas turning the tables next year, so then we're down to 2 years with Hamilton pushing towards 40 which can be a nice get out.
Well, Lewis could get out at the top of his game or at least before his results have begun to significantly diminish. Michael Schumacher picked about the right time for his first retirement. Lewis may do the same. A slow fade into mediocrity doesn't do much for a champion's place in history.
This is partly what I think about Vettel. I don't think Hamilton now is a whole lot better than Vettel was at his best. Vettel's consecutive number of race wins is still to be beaten. But by a lot of people, (not everyone) They seem to judge Vettel as simply not being able to go against Hamilton without breaking down. In that era, Vettel a great deal of the time looked so dominant and one of the years just happened to be a bad year for Hamilton.
Vettel currently is not anywhere near his best and I just hope he can do a turn around like he did in 2015. Maybe not at his best ever level, but still very good.
The only reason I've been disagreeing with some people's views on it being impossible for Bottas to have a chance on beating hamilton is that I still see one and only chance that is small, but possible. And that is only if Hamilton starts to fade (could be any time in the next few years), mercedes continue to dominate and Bottas is kept for a few more seasons. That wouldn't be impossible. But it wouldn't look great and if Hamilton stays as long as Vettel after his peak and something like this happens, he may also be remembered for similar things to Vettel despite his records.
It's a totally different scenario if a driver is seen to fade at 38/39, that can be put down to age, a driver like Vettel being judged to have faded in his early 30s is less believable in particular if it coincided with having stronger teammates, in fact he was only 27 when he was given the run around by Ricciardo, then the following year 2015 as you say he was seen as back to his best or was it just having a weaker teammate?
It is of course possible Vettel has very up and down form, and/or is shot by the age 32. Plenty examples across sport of similar.
Looks wise, Vettel has aged a lot in the last couple of years - for a guy who (in the not too distant past) looked a few years younger than he was, to somebody that looks a good 5-6 years older than he actually is. Not that has anything to do with sporting performance - but it's usually a good pointer towards stress.
The age thing could be simply genetics, I would guess that Vettel's father is a similar age to me probably a few years younger yet he looks about 10 years older than me.
For me, the main ??? for Hamilton is his desire. When will he let up? We take for granted his general show of force and his persistent motivation and focus, but when will it wane? When will he start "burning out"? It happened to Michael, by his own admission. He felt he was spent.
If Hamilton gets to 7 WDCs, which looks extremely likely right now, might he have a let-down? Might something change psychologically inside him or are such milestones genuinely not so critical to him? — That it's not a benchmark which could change his general desire for winning?
Hamilton has been so consistently hungry for success that it becomes easy to take that passion for granted at this stage, but it can't be easy to maintain this level of sustained excellence and focus.
However, he'd have to really collapse to lose to Bottas, and I'm not trying to disrespect Bottas here but at the moment there is a big difference between them generally in race craft and race pace. The only other possibility I could see is that somehow the car characteristics moving forward would trip up Hamilton and embolden Bottas, but I find that highly doubtful.
Channel 4 interviews asked that very question of Toto and his father. Neither indicated he was losing appetite. Toto said he has been waiting to fall of the cliff for years but it never happens. Perhaps that is the point where the question needs to be asked again. You would have to think 8 titles and 120 wins was the minimum though wouldn't you?
I think it depends what happens in 2022. Merc might not make the best of the new regs. Usually with big changes to the regs the front runners slip back.
Key to that might be the word "might", Toto Wolff is very thorough, even if he left you would think that he already has plans in place to develop a strong package even if they are banned from developing it.
I don't know if the removal of the MGU-H will affect some engines differently, is there a difference between manufacturers in the amount of recovered energy from these units? If so that might affect the performance of the Mercedes package.
Removal of the MGU-H, first I've heard of that and it's the selling point of the engine that gives it over 50% efficiency.
Well I guess that will have to happen in the next 3 years, I can't see Bottas turning the tables next year, so then we're down to 2 years with Hamilton pushing towards 40 which can be a nice get out.
Well, Lewis could get out at the top of his game or at least before his results have begun to significantly diminish. Michael Schumacher picked about the right time for his first retirement. Lewis may do the same. A slow fade into mediocrity doesn't do much for a champion's place in history.
This is partly what I think about Vettel. I don't think Hamilton now is a whole lot better than Vettel was at his best. Vettel's consecutive number of race wins is still to be beaten. But by a lot of people, (not everyone) They seem to judge Vettel as simply not being able to go against Hamilton without breaking down. In that era, Vettel a great deal of the time looked so dominant and one of the years just happened to be a bad year for Hamilton.
Vettel currently is not anywhere near his best and I just hope he can do a turn around like he did in 2015. Maybe not at his best ever level, but still very good.
The only reason I've been disagreeing with some people's views on it being impossible for Bottas to have a chance on beating hamilton is that I still see one and only chance that is small, but possible. And that is only if Hamilton starts to fade (could be any time in the next few years), mercedes continue to dominate and Bottas is kept for a few more seasons. That wouldn't be impossible. But it wouldn't look great and if Hamilton stays as long as Vettel after his peak and something like this happens, he may also be remembered for similar things to Vettel despite his records.
It's a totally different scenario if a driver is seen to fade at 38/39, that can be put down to age, a driver like Vettel being judged to have faded in his early 30s is less believable in particular if it coincided with having stronger teammates, in fact he was only 27 when he was given the run around by Ricciardo, then the following year 2015 as you say he was seen as back to his best or was it just having a weaker teammate?
I thought I implied I wasn't sure if he was back to his best level. But I still do think he was very strong that year and arguably was actually better than Hamilton.
I am aware the age is pretty different between the two with things we are comparing.
It was a good year for him but I would also say he was very comfortable with his new teammate.
For me, the main ??? for Hamilton is his desire. When will he let up? We take for granted his general show of force and his persistent motivation and focus, but when will it wane? When will he start "burning out"? It happened to Michael, by his own admission. He felt he was spent.
If Hamilton gets to 7 WDCs, which looks extremely likely right now, might he have a let-down? Might something change psychologically inside him or are such milestones genuinely not so critical to him? — That it's not a benchmark which could change his general desire for winning?
Hamilton has been so consistently hungry for success that it becomes easy to take that passion for granted at this stage, but it can't be easy to maintain this level of sustained excellence and focus.
However, he'd have to really collapse to lose to Bottas, and I'm not trying to disrespect Bottas here but at the moment there is a big difference between them generally in race craft and race pace. The only other possibility I could see is that somehow the car characteristics moving forward would trip up Hamilton and embolden Bottas, but I find that highly doubtful.
Channel 4 interviews asked that very question of Toto and his father. Neither indicated he was losing appetite. Toto said he has been waiting to fall of the cliff for years but it never happens. Perhaps that is the point where the question needs to be asked again. You would have to think 8 titles and 120 wins was the minimum though wouldn't you?
I think it depends what happens in 2022. Merc might not make the best of the new regs. Usually with big changes to the regs the front runners slip back.
Key to that might be the word "might", Toto Wolff is very thorough, even if he left you would think that he already has plans in place to develop a strong package even if they are banned from developing it.
I don't know if the removal of the MGU-H will affect some engines differently, is there a difference between manufacturers in the amount of recovered energy from these units? If so that might affect the performance of the Mercedes package.
Removal of the MGU-H, first I've heard of that and it's the selling point of the engine that gives it over 50% efficiency.
"The proposed regulations involved removing the Motor Generator Unit–Heat (MGU-H) to simplify the technology used in the engine whilst raising the maximum rev limit by 3000 rpm."
Is that still the plan then I wonder?
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:43 pm
by justmoi
Just wanna say congratulations. Wow. 92 wins. Really,wow. Congratulations champ
Channel 4 interviews asked that very question of Toto and his father. Neither indicated he was losing appetite. Toto said he has been waiting to fall of the cliff for years but it never happens. Perhaps that is the point where the question needs to be asked again. You would have to think 8 titles and 120 wins was the minimum though wouldn't you?
I think it depends what happens in 2022. Merc might not make the best of the new regs. Usually with big changes to the regs the front runners slip back.
Key to that might be the word "might", Toto Wolff is very thorough, even if he left you would think that he already has plans in place to develop a strong package even if they are banned from developing it.
I don't know if the removal of the MGU-H will affect some engines differently, is there a difference between manufacturers in the amount of recovered energy from these units? If so that might affect the performance of the Mercedes package.
Removal of the MGU-H, first I've heard of that and it's the selling point of the engine that gives it over 50% efficiency.
"The proposed regulations involved removing the Motor Generator Unit–Heat (MGU-H) to simplify the technology used in the engine whilst raising the maximum rev limit by 3000 rpm."
Is that still the plan then I wonder?
It was proposed but not to be implemented.
Discussions over the 2021 engine regulations began in 2017 and were finalised in May 2018.[44][45] The proposed regulations involved removing the Motor Generator Unit–Heat (MGU-H) to simplify the technology used in the engine whilst raising the maximum rev limit by 3000 rpm.[46] Further proposals dubbed "plug-and-play" would see engine suppliers bound by the regulations to make individual engine components universally compatible, allowing teams to source their components from multiple suppliers.[47] Manufacturers will also be subject to a similar regulation concerning commercially available materials as chassis constructors will be subject to from 2021. The proposals were designed to simplify the engine technology whilst making the sport more attractive to new entrants.[48] However, as no new power unit suppliers committed themselves to entering the sport from 2021, the existing suppliers proposed to retain the existing power unit formula in a bid to reduce overall development costs.[49]
The quota system of power unit components will continue in 2021, with teams given a limited number of individual components that can be used before incurring a penalty. The exhaust system will be added to the list of components, with teams allowed to use a maximum of six over the course of the championship.[42]
Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread
Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:19 pm
by JN23
So 92 to choose from, which is Hamilton's best win?
Silverstone 2008, China 2011, Germany 2011, Bahrain 2014, Germany 2018, Italy 2018 all stand out to me. I'm sure I've missed some though, there's a lot to remember
