Hamilton won 3 races, Bottas 2 races. If Ferrari weren't cheating, the Hamilton would have won a lot more races. Almost certainly Spa, Monza and Singapore and maybe Japan too.TheGiantHogweed wrote:I think i can see your point regarding all the other races regarding performance over results. And I also agree Hamilton will have likely had better pace in Italy, but that pace and running so close to Leclerc had consequences which put him behind Bottas. And that is where I think Bottas did better and I have already explained why I think Bottas couldn't get past.Johnson wrote:I spoke about Bottas' positives, those 2 races. But there were 7 others. Of course you focus on the negatives, that's how you critically evaluate something.TheGiantHogweed wrote:Johnson wrote:Points aren’t performance... Albon would have out scored Max if not for Brazil crash with Hamilton I believe. So that tells you everything about points.
But yes Italy sums it up best. Hamilton battling for the win all race with Bottas a distant 3rd all race, but through pushing the limits of his tyres to win and getting pushed off track it ended Bottas P2 and Hamilton P3. Likewise Singapore, Hamilton in for the win if they pit him at the right time but it ends P4 and P5 due to poor strategy. Spa, again Hamilton fighting for win and Bottas a distant 3rd.
Bottas has been in the fight for the win 2 times in 9 races. Hamilton 9 out of 9, I think he lead all 9 races at some point. In 6-7 of those 9 races, there was another car between Bottas and Hamilton or a large gap.
I may be the opposite, but you do seem a bit like you really try to point out Bottas's negatives at times. And not always correctly. Italy, a distant 3rd ALL race? 11 laps in he still was a fraction of a second off getting DRS from Hamilton. He didn't drop back any more that 2 seconds in this stint. As you point out Hamilton has often led a race (which isn't always down to him earning the position). Well Bottas was leading it for a few laps in this case. When he pitted, he was 8 seconds behind Hamilton in 4th, not 3rd. By the time he was 3rd, it dropped to 5 seconds when Ricciardo pitted during the VSC. Meanwhile, just before this, Bottas had done fastest lap. Within 10 laps Bottas had caught and passed Hamilton. Then spent the next 11 laps ahead.
You saying Bottas was a distant 3rd all race really is not accurate.
I am fully aware Hamilton likely will have had had more pace in hand and was stuck behind Leclerc, but as other drivers like Verstappen got away with a warning at this track last year, maybe it is fair that Leclerc got away with similar first time he does it. Bottas may also have had a slightly better strategy, but he made it work pretty well and got a better result than Hamilton. You are making him look worse than he was that race. Given that Hamilton was stuck behind Leclerc, all we actually know is that Bottas could keep up with Hamilton in the 1st stint, and caught up and got by in the 2nd stint. I think this is a good enough case for me to make a point that I think bottas overall did a betetr job that race despite Hamilton putting more pressure on Leclerc and likely being quicker.
But I agree there are not many weekends where Hamilton isn't a fair bit quicker with it more clearly slowing that.
Ok, lets say Bottas was good in Italy. That gives him 3 great/good performances of those 9 races. If you want to say Bottas was better in Italy then go it. He had the perfect strategy to win, Hamilton as the hare and Bottas the tortoise. He was better than I remember but there is no real race pace comparison as Leclerc held Hamilton up the entire race.
But you can't hide the fact, Bottas had a car to battle for all 9 races wins and realistically he was in the battle 2 or 3 times.
You say, IF this happend or that happened then Bottas would have equalled Hamilton in points. But IF Mercedes pitted Hamilton at the right time in Singapore and Leclerc was penalised in Italy as you would expect, Hamilton would have outscored him by 60+ points. IFs work both ways, lets not ignore that. The usual gulf in class between them was as apparent as ever. If Ferrari were not possible cheating, Hamilton would have won 6 or 7 races to Bottas' 2.
I don't get the big deal being made about Ferrari cheating. I it actually was against the rules, they shouldn't have anything count this season. And Leclerc got away with the sort of thing Verstappen constantly has. The races where i think Hamilton lost out a bit was Singapore and Japan, but not by as much as bottas in the last two races combined.
If you were to re-run the Italain GP after qualifying, which driver would you back to win it. Hamilton or Bottas? I would choose Hamilton every time. Bottas may have got the better result but Hamilton had a much greater chance to win the race.