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Big move for Hamilton but probably one he needed to do, season after season McLaren fail to delivery to the inconsistency they have even when titles are there for the taking, hopefully in his time at Mercedes they can at least build one front running car so he can win another title.

Johnston wrote:

chinki wrote:I am so gonna miss our Lewis vs JB arguments.... In fact, I am missing you already

Don't worry, I'm sure if Merc don't up their game and Button beats him every season. Or indeed this one. The Lewis Hamilton book of excuses for fans will go into the 3rd print.

So as if you don't have enough with your negativity / bashing towards Hamilton in ever other thread involving Hamilton, your at it in the official Hamilton thread.

The facts are if Hamilton beats Button this season it's 2-1 to Hamilton meaning he beat Button when they was team mates, no excuses can change that. But please lay the bashing/negativity about Hamilton of the official thread and try to keep this thread in a nicer light.

F1Thomas wrote: So as if you don't have enough with your negativity / bashing towards Hamilton in ever other thread involving Hamilton, your at it in the official Hamilton thread.

where have I bashed him? I didn't realise this was the thread to only say positive things?

pls leave

As a Hamilton fan i say this...


Wrong move boy.... majorly wrong move. Looking at how the Merc has been up till now... i doubt we'll see Lewis in the running for the WDC for a few years now.

Johnston wrote:

chinki wrote:I am so gonna miss our Lewis vs JB arguments.... In fact, I am missing you already

Don't worry, I'm sure if Merc don't up their game and Button beats him every season. Or indeed this one. The Lewis Hamilton book of excuses for fans will go into the 3rd print.

JB can beat Lewis all he likes next year. It is all the same unless McLaren win the WDC or JB does. There is no glory for coming 2nd, Lewis takes home a salary that is 2/3rd more than Button and it doesnt matter which order they finish in unless one of them wins the WDC.

This was a dreadful idea and is surely just a money move. Even going back to Honda etc, they were only, at best, the 3rd best team (2004-2006), they had a MASSIVE slump for 2 years and then were quickest for about 6 races, as Brawn, before sliding to 2nd/3rd best. As their current incarnation they're about 4th best team, quite a way off the front and only 1 win. It will be interesting (although still probably won't reveal much) to hear what Lewis himself says about the move, but it's going to take a lot to convince me this wasn't just about the currency.

Thinking to 2014, I really don't think Merc will have much of an advantage, they'll still send engines to McLaren, a team who not only know how to put an engine into a car, but *know* how to build race winning cars more or less every year. The last season McLaren didn't win a race was 2006, before then you have to go back to 2002 and before then... Can't remember. Unless Hamilton can go to Mercedes and help them build a great car, I feel he'll just languish at the front of the mid-field, and if he does just languish there, I will have absolutely no sympathy for him, in fact, I'll relish in his defeat.

The only shame of it is that Hamilton is a truly world class driver who should have multiple championships, and I feel like, just when Red Bull's dominance had ended and McLaren's form returning to the top, he was about poised to take a 2nd and perhaps a 3rd next year.

Foolish.

i dont think anyone expects them to be out front in 2013, not even Lewis, and people who judge his move on next season will be incredibly foolish and short-sighted, hell it might even be his first season in F1 without a win, but i am sure Lewis knows this too and is focusing on 2014 with the regulation changes when literally anybody could come out on top. A TP we usually see at the sharp end after serious rule changes is Brawn.

chinki wrote:

Johnston wrote:

chinki wrote:I am so gonna miss our Lewis vs JB arguments.... In fact, I am missing you already

Don't worry, I'm sure if Merc don't up their game and Button beats him every season. Or indeed this one. The Lewis Hamilton book of excuses for fans will go into the 3rd print.

JB can beat Lewis all he likes next year. It is all the same unless McLaren win the WDC or JB does. There is no glory for coming 2nd, Lewis takes home a salary that is 2/3rd more than Button and it doesnt matter which order they finish in unless one of them wins the WDC.

So does that work both ways? JB's getting paid less it doesn't matter which order they finish in

Johnston wrote:

chinki wrote:

Johnston wrote:

chinki wrote:I am so gonna miss our Lewis vs JB arguments.... In fact, I am missing you already

Don't worry, I'm sure if Merc don't up their game and Button beats him every season. Or indeed this one. The Lewis Hamilton book of excuses for fans will go into the 3rd print.

JB can beat Lewis all he likes next year. It is all the same unless McLaren win the WDC or JB does. There is no glory for coming 2nd, Lewis takes home a salary that is 2/3rd more than Button and it doesnt matter which order they finish in unless one of them wins the WDC.

So does that work both ways? JB's getting paid less it doesn't matter which order they finish in

Of course it works both ways - the only thing that matters is WDC glory and how well you are driving - guessed mostly based on how 2 drivers perform in the same team.

Johnston is there any thread you can go in without turning it into Hamilton vs. Button? Give it a rest please

FormulaFun wrote:Johnston is there any thread you can go in without turning it into Hamilton vs. Button? Give it a rest please

Sssshhh dont remind him, for now he is busy on the Brawn vs Whitmarsh debate and let us hope he stays there

FormulaFun wrote:Johnston is there any thread you can go in without turning it into Hamilton vs. Button? Give it a rest please

Thats funny because I see JB being mentioned before I did

Museli wrote:Brundle just confirmed on Sky sports news that there will be no number one in Merecedes.

Seems odd given news of his signing seemed to mention in Mercedes he'd be clear number 1 etc.

mac_d wrote:

Museli wrote:Brundle just confirmed on Sky sports news that there will be no number one in Merecedes.

Seems odd given news of his signing seemed to mention in Mercedes he'd be clear number 1 etc.

I am pretty sure that neither Ferrari or RBR have ever claimed that Alonso or Vettel are their #1 drivers. What matters is the direction a team principal provides in terms of car development, race strategies, etc that help us understand if there is a #1 driver in the team. Just like the other teams, there is no need for Merc to make a public announcement about this and 2013 will tell us whether Lewis really is #1 at Merc or not. Given the amount of money Merc seems to be paying Lewis and the fact that Ross Brawn has always favored one driver over the other, this is a no brainer that Lewis will indeed be #1 at Merc.

Just confirmation that his move to Merc had nothing to do with money.

PzR Slim wrote:Looks like money wasn't the problem. http://www.iol.co.za/motoring/f1-grand- ... GXe15G9KSN

It seems most where wrong when they kept bringing up that McLaren where offering him less money.

F1Thomas wrote:Just confirmation that his move to Merc had nothing to do with money.

PzR Slim wrote:Looks like money wasn't the problem. http://www.iol.co.za/motoring/f1-grand- ... GXe15G9KSN

It seems most where wrong when they kept bringing up that McLaren where offering him less money.

So this is a conscious choice by Lewis not dictated by money. I am quite happy to know that Lewis is making free choices and McLaren have shot themselves in the foot again. Now you can listen to this forum moaning and hating on him and deciding better than Lewis and predicting his results next year or you could smile like I am - I am absolutely thrilled

i agree chinki, as i said somewhere else i feel that McLaren were suffocating him and he didn't seem happy there at all so i think it was the right choice for him to make. It'll be a rough ride for him next year i can almost guarantee it (and for us here with the innumerable ignorant threads about how he moved for money, how it was a dumb move and how he'll never win again) but i think in 2014 we should begin to see Mercedes emerge irregardless of Bernie's engine U-Turns and Ferrari bum licking

FormulaFun wrote:i agree chinki, as i said somewhere else i feel that McLaren were suffocating him and he didn't seem happy there at all so i think it was the right choice for him to make. It'll be a rough ride for him next year i can almost guarantee it (and for us here with the innumerable ignorant threads about how he moved for money, how it was a dumb move and how he'll never win again) but i think in 2014 we should begin to see Mercedes emerge irregardless of Bernie's engine U-Turns and Ferrari bum licking

Yes it could be rough but I am sure Lewis has considered the odds and knows a lot more than we do and a conscious choice to move deserves less skepticism and more faith from his fans

FormulaFun wrote:i agree chinki, as i said somewhere else i feel that McLaren were suffocating him and he didn't seem happy there at all so i think it was the right choice for him to make. It'll be a rough ride for him next year i can almost guarantee it (and for us here with the innumerable ignorant threads about how he moved for money, how it was a dumb move and how he'll never win again) but i think in 2014 we should begin to see Mercedes emerge irregardless of Bernie's engine U-Turns and Ferrari bum licking

I think Hamilton's quality will shine through next year. Surprised he signed a 3-year deal though. Big gamble.

I won't be surprised to see him back at Mclaren in 2016, 2014 is a gamble, Mercedes might make a great car, or a crap one. When Button's contract ends, Hamilton may well beg Mclaren to take him back. And I think they probably would, it would be crazy of them, not to.

From whispers I'm hearing Merc sold Ham the deal as they've got a trick system for next season (like the double diffuser / F-Duct / Double DRS performance gains ) and it could even be on the car by Japan next week (maybe for just the Friday but maybe on Schumi's as a thank you and sign off with a race win)

@Formula1Fan
I would have to agree. Just let him keep on keeping on, and ignore all the ignorance and predjudice on here about what he has done and what he will do. Its obvious to any bystander that the guy has skill. He needs to take his time at Merc and hone that.
He will come away from that team ready to score points and wins and prove himself.

I remember reading a while ago that Hammy was upset with McLaren's policy on keeping trophy's and giving the driver a replica. McLaren is famous for keeping their drivers under their proverbial thumb, and I dont think Lewis likes it anymore.

Money is always a factor, and McLaren may have been offering the same base pay, Im sure Mercedes had many more sponsor deals lined up for him in conjunction with his salary.

I wouldnt discount Mercedes, and their ability to build a winning car. They have been building the team for a few years now, and with the addition of Hamilton, a high profile top driver, they very well could have the right winning combination.

I cant wait to see what plays out over the coming seasons.

I have always disliked drivers that drive for McLaren......except KR!!!
As soon as they leave, I start to like them!!

I am quite happy to have LH leave McLaren. McLaren was never the team I was cheering for, except when they were running the Porsche engines.

It will be great, LH at Mercedes, SP at McLaren, KR at Lotus, SV at RedBull and FA at Ferrari.

can't wait to 2013.......

Who's his engineer this weekend?

WelshWayne1978 wrote:From whispers I'm hearing Merc sold Ham the deal as they've got a trick system for next season (like the double diffuser / F-Duct / Double DRS performance gains ) and it could even be on the car by Japan next week (maybe for just the Friday but maybe on Schumi's as a thank you and sign off with a race win)

And here is the confirmation!
https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/253901137017716736

So you reckon they have sold him on the basis of a trick device they are copying from Lotus and all the teams know about it now so will have time to perfect for next year nullifying much of the advantage gained?

Hamilton on it this weekend

gonna be a redbull vs Mclaren

Johnston wrote:So you reckon they have sold him on the basis of a trick device they are copying from Lotus and all the teams know about it now so will have time to perfect for next year nullifying much of the advantage gained?

No
Merc already had the device in design before Lotus caught onto the trick, there's been a development race to get it on the car before Lotus

But Lotus had it on the car first.

God knows who designed it first.

If anything that Hypothesis makes Merc look even weaker.

"We had it in design first but the team with a smaller budget got it on the car first" doesn't look to good on them. Much like the cona-do-da exhaust, it took them 12 races to copy everyone else. Much the same time as HRT.

If they do have a super dooper 36 double F diffuser . I don't think anyone will know about it until the car hits the winter tests.

Johnston wrote:But Lotus had it on the car first.

God knows who designed it first.

If anything that Hypothesis makes Merc look even weaker.

"We had it in design first but the team with a smaller budget got it on the car first" doesn't look to good on them. Much like the cona-do-da exhaust, it took them 12 races to copy everyone else. Much the same time as HRT.

If they do have a super dooper 36 double F diffuser . I don't think anyone will know about it until the car hits the winter tests.

Doesn't matter who got it on the car first it matters who gets it on the car "legal and working" first!

If he stayed with McLaren, there was a good chance he could have ended up with car #5 next year, continuing the pattern starting from 2009.

A thought just occurred to me about his move to Merc, has anyone seen anything on what his dad has to say about the move, it would be interesting to see if he's done and interview about it & whether he likes/dislikes the move

Is latham back from paternity leave? Did he engineer hamiltons car last weekend? Maybe its not paternity leave, maybe he's leaving with hamilton for mercedes.

Sir Frank Williams: Lewis is definitively my Nr 1 choice for Williams ( Last week at the Flying Lap/ Korea Episode 87)

2011 he said if he had the chance to pick one driver of all drivers ever raced at F1 ( formerly & now) he would take Lewis, because he has more ( talent) than anyone, he is magic, he simply is"

2010 "Someone like him ( Lewis) steps down from heaven only once every 20 years "

spiritone wrote:Is latham back from paternity leave? Did he engineer hamiltons car last weekend? Maybe its not paternity leave, maybe he's leaving with hamilton for mercedes.

Latham was not at Korea. Maybe he is at MTC to prepare already for Perez?
I don't think he goes with Lewis, does not look like they are really "inseperable"

It's strange, the race engineer disappeared at the most important part of the season. It's surely a disadvantage for the driver. Wonder if he will come back this season.

WelshWayne1978 wrote:

Johnston wrote:So you reckon they have sold him on the basis of a trick device they are copying from Lotus and all the teams know about it now so will have time to perfect for next year nullifying much of the advantage gained?

No
Merc already had the device in design before Lotus caught onto the trick, there's been a development race to get it on the car before Lotus

Is this trick device a DDRS sort of thing because i thought that was being outlawed next year anyway?

dave_the_fish wrote:

WelshWayne1978 wrote:

Johnston wrote:So you reckon they have sold him on the basis of a trick device they are copying from Lotus and all the teams know about it now so will have time to perfect for next year nullifying much of the advantage gained?

No
Merc already had the device in design before Lotus caught onto the trick, there's been a development race to get it on the car before Lotus

Is this trick device a DDRS sort of thing because i thought that was being outlawed next year anyway?

As much as he can tell me is that the device is legal and will be legal next year Dave

WelshWayne1978 wrote:

dave_the_fish wrote:

WelshWayne1978 wrote:

Johnston wrote:So you reckon they have sold him on the basis of a trick device they are copying from Lotus and all the teams know about it now so will have time to perfect for next year nullifying much of the advantage gained?

No
Merc already had the device in design before Lotus caught onto the trick, there's been a development race to get it on the car before Lotus

Is this trick device a DDRS sort of thing because i thought that was being outlawed next year anyway?

As much as he can tell me is that the device is legal and will be legal next year Dave

Cheers

dave_the_fish wrote:

WelshWayne1978 wrote:

dave_the_fish wrote:

WelshWayne1978 wrote:

Johnston wrote:So you reckon they have sold him on the basis of a trick device they are copying from Lotus and all the teams know about it now so will have time to perfect for next year nullifying much of the advantage gained?

No
Merc already had the device in design before Lotus caught onto the trick, there's been a development race to get it on the car before Lotus

Is this trick device a DDRS sort of thing because i thought that was being outlawed next year anyway?

As much as he can tell me is that the device is legal and will be legal next year Dave

Cheers

Disregard my last post made a boo boo, got my drs mixed up with front wing F Duct