The Official Sir Lewis Hamilton thread

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mikeyg123
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Re: The Official Sir Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:33 pm
Exediron wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:02 pm
pokerman wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:01 pm
Schermerhorn wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:18 am
tootsie323 wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:00 am
So, in short - he has demonstrated his talent in a lesser car.

Like Vettel did in Monza 2008?
I'm not sure what you are relating this to exactly but you do know that Vettel's teammate qualified 4th for that race.
He qualified fourth, but he was -0.890s behind Vettel. If Vettel had done what Bourdais did, no one would have considered it an impressive drive that proved his ability. Qualifying fourth in a midfield car isn't (or wasn't, in that era) some huge feat. Qualifying on pole and winning is.
First of all you don't know the fuel loads, secondly it's all about the myth of a car that qualifies 1st and 4th is somehow a midfield car that's the only issue.
It was a midfield car. The three teams with better cars - McLaren, Ferrari and BMW just did a really bad job in qualifying. In the race they came through to finish in 5 of the remaining 7 point scoring places. Vettel did enough to control the race and crucially got the strategy right.

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tootsie323
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Re: The Official Sir Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by tootsie323 »

Schermerhorn wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:18 am
tootsie323 wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:00 am
So, in short - he has demonstrated his talent in a lesser car.
Like Vettel did in Monza 2008?
Yes - perfect example of Vettel showcasing his talent. If the Red Bull (senior) team were not already decided on whether to promote him, that almost surely nailed it.
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pokerman
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Re: The Official Sir Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by pokerman »

Exediron wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:27 am
pokerman wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:33 pm
Exediron wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:02 pm
pokerman wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:01 pm
Schermerhorn wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:18 am



Like Vettel did in Monza 2008?
I'm not sure what you are relating this to exactly but you do know that Vettel's teammate qualified 4th for that race.
He qualified fourth, but he was -0.890s behind Vettel. If Vettel had done what Bourdais did, no one would have considered it an impressive drive that proved his ability. Qualifying fourth in a midfield car isn't (or wasn't, in that era) some huge feat. Qualifying on pole and winning is.
First of all you don't know the fuel loads, secondly it's all about the myth of a car that qualifies 1st and 4th is somehow a midfield car that's the only issue.
It was a midfield car. Racing Point qualified 1st and 3rd in Turkey last year; are you saying that wasn't a midfield car?

I'm not Vettel's biggest supporter by any stretch of the imagination, but the 2008 Toro Rosso was a weaker car than anything Hamilton ever took a win in. Does that somehow make Vettel a better driver? Heck no. Maybe Hamilton could have won in that car - it's even pretty likely he could have. But the closest he's come to a midfield car in his career was the first half of 2009, and he didn't win until that car was dramatically improved to a level beyond the 2008 Toro Rosso.
I'm saying that on the day it didn't perform like a midfield car because of the wet conditions similar like you say with Racing Point, even then Racing Point were acknowledged to have the third best car last year.
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pokerman
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Re: The Official Sir Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by pokerman »

KingVoid wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:14 am
I highly doubt that the 9 tenths gap between Vettel and Bourdais
had much to do with fuel loads if anything at all, that’s just desperate reaching.

Anyway, the fastest car that weekend was McLaren, but Kovalainen simply couldn’t keep up with Vettel while Hamilton had his issues in qualifying (that was partially his own fault).
Bourdais was a tenth slower in Q1, 3 tenths slower in Q2, and for Q3 they put more fuel in his car, through the sessions Bourdais was 5th, 5th and 4th, all the sessions were wet.

He stalled at the start and went a lap down from which any further comparison ended, Bourdais got sacked half way through the middle of the following season after giving second best to rookie Buemi.

On the day the car was up there with the best cars that in itself of course shouldn't take anything away from Vettel's win, it's just the idea that he won in a midfield car, midfield team yes, but midfield car that on the day was as good as any car out there as witnessed by the performance of his unrated teammate.
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Schermerhorn
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Re: The Official Sir Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by Schermerhorn »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:20 pm
Nothing annoys me more (in an F1 context) than people trying to devalue Vettel's Monza win. It's absurdly disingenuous.

And I'm one of Vettel's harshest critics.
Yup, agreed. Despite Vettel's sad decline, nothing can take away that feat, it was truly heroic and it really irks me that people try and belittle it.
You’re not in a fight until there’s pressure. Resistance. Overcoming something. Otherwise, it’s just an exhibition.

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Schermerhorn
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Re: The Official Sir Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by Schermerhorn »

pokerman wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:01 pm
Schermerhorn wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:18 am
tootsie323 wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:00 am
So, in short - he has demonstrated his talent in a lesser car.

Like Vettel did in Monza 2008?
I'm not sure what you are relating this to exactly but you do know that Vettel's teammate qualified 4th for that race.

Yes, so what? Bottas frequently out-qualifies Hamilton and gets his backside handed to him the next day.
You’re not in a fight until there’s pressure. Resistance. Overcoming something. Otherwise, it’s just an exhibition.

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Re: The Official Sir Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by KingVoid »

pokerman wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:41 pm
KingVoid wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:14 am
I highly doubt that the 9 tenths gap between Vettel and Bourdais
had much to do with fuel loads if anything at all, that’s just desperate reaching.

Anyway, the fastest car that weekend was McLaren, but Kovalainen simply couldn’t keep up with Vettel while Hamilton had his issues in qualifying (that was partially his own fault).
Bourdais was a tenth slower in Q1, 3 tenths slower in Q2, and for Q3 they put more fuel in his car, through the sessions Bourdais was 5th, 5th and 4th, all the sessions were wet.
Bottas was also reasonably close to Hamilton throughout Monza 2017 qualifying, until the final part of Q3 where Hamilton put in a flier. Maybe that’s why the gap between Vettel and Bourdais increased in the final part of Q3? Vettel put in a stonking lap? Vettel evidently wasn’t running low on fuel as we saw the following day.
On the day the car was up there with the best cars
It was inferior to McLaren

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tootsie323
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Re: The Official Sir Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by tootsie323 »

According to F1 Bourdais only pitted three laps later than Vettel - I'm not sure that this accounts for the gap in quali.
Whether or not the Torro Rosso was optimised for the conditions, it was still a stand-out performance from Vettel in what was not a front-running car.
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Re: The Official Sir Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

Funny how the last 15 posts or so in the official Hamilton thread seem to be arguing about how good Vettel was in a race 13 years ago. Some being relevant though and implying it isn't really worth bringing up this far.

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Re: The Official Sir Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by pokerman »

Schermerhorn wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:52 pm
pokerman wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:01 pm
Schermerhorn wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:18 am
tootsie323 wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:00 am
So, in short - he has demonstrated his talent in a lesser car.

Like Vettel did in Monza 2008?
I'm not sure what you are relating this to exactly but you do know that Vettel's teammate qualified 4th for that race.

Yes, so what? Bottas frequently out-qualifies Hamilton and gets his backside handed to him the next day.
I'm not sure what relevance that has given that Bourdais stalled on the grid and was not the point I was making anyway.
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pokerman
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Re: The Official Sir Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by pokerman »

KingVoid wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:43 pm
pokerman wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:41 pm
KingVoid wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:14 am
I highly doubt that the 9 tenths gap between Vettel and Bourdais
had much to do with fuel loads if anything at all, that’s just desperate reaching.

Anyway, the fastest car that weekend was McLaren, but Kovalainen simply couldn’t keep up with Vettel while Hamilton had his issues in qualifying (that was partially his own fault).
Bourdais was a tenth slower in Q1, 3 tenths slower in Q2, and for Q3 they put more fuel in his car, through the sessions Bourdais was 5th, 5th and 4th, all the sessions were wet.
Bottas was also reasonably close to Hamilton throughout Monza 2017 qualifying, until the final part of Q3 where Hamilton put in a flier. Maybe that’s why the gap between Vettel and Bourdais increased in the final part of Q3? Vettel put in a stonking lap? Vettel evidently wasn’t running low on fuel as we saw the following day.
On the day the car was up there with the best cars
It was inferior to McLaren
I've already seen that the post below yours refutes what you said, I would also say that you have little proof for the McLaren being quicker.
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Re: The Official Sir Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by pokerman »

tootsie323 wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:28 am
According to F1 Bourdais only pitted three laps later than Vettel - I'm not sure that this accounts for the gap in quali.
Whether or not the Torro Rosso was optimised for the conditions, it was still a stand-out performance from Vettel in what was not a front-running car.
Which is about 3 tenths, I was only making the point that the 8/9 tenths gap wasn't the true gap.
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Re: The Official Sir Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by Johnson »

KingVoid wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:43 pm
pokerman wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:41 pm
KingVoid wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:14 am
I highly doubt that the 9 tenths gap between Vettel and Bourdais
had much to do with fuel loads if anything at all, that’s just desperate reaching.

Anyway, the fastest car that weekend was McLaren, but Kovalainen simply couldn’t keep up with Vettel while Hamilton had his issues in qualifying (that was partially his own fault).
Bourdais was a tenth slower in Q1, 3 tenths slower in Q2, and for Q3 they put more fuel in his car, through the sessions Bourdais was 5th, 5th and 4th, all the sessions were wet.
Bottas was also reasonably close to Hamilton throughout Monza 2017 qualifying, until the final part of Q3 where Hamilton put in a flier. Maybe that’s why the gap between Vettel and Bourdais increased in the final part of Q3? Vettel put in a stonking lap? Vettel evidently wasn’t running low on fuel as we saw the following day.
On the day the car was up there with the best cars
It was inferior to McLaren
Bottas made big errors on his runs in Q3 at Monza 2017, thats why he was so far back.

The fact Bourdais, an average driver, had the pace to put the car 4th tells you all you need to know about the TR. Forget about Vettel.

Not sure if anybody has mentioned it. The TR was so quick that weekend because of the brakes. They had new brakes (different to Red Bull) and they kept the inters alive and got temperature immediately, TR was massively surprised at the cars pace themselves. This information came out a couple of years ago in an interview with Vettels race engineer. He also said they had the best car that day. Not sure I agree, but it was up there with Mclaren for race day and with Hamilton starting way down and Heikki being Heikki he had the best opportunity.

It was just one of those freak weekends like Point Racing in Turkey 2020 and Force India at Spa in 2009. Stroll's Turkey was an exact replica of Vettels Monza 2008 (until he got front wing damage).

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Re: The Official Sir Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by KingVoid »

pokerman wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:47 pm
I've already seen that the post below yours refutes what you said, I would also say that you have little proof for the McLaren being quicker.
Kovalainen’s qualifying pace, and Hamilton’s race pace.

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Re: The Official Sir Lewis Hamilton thread

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pokerman wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 3:57 pm


I think Hamilton is an unusual variety that simply keeps getting better with age, I guess it belies just how immature he was in the first part of his F1 career.

Yeh it would appear that Hamilton is at his peak aged 36. He's also at peak confidence, peak 'bossness'. He knows he owns the dynamic in his own team and he feels empowered. He has a swagger about him.

We'll see if Verstappen can strip him of that swagger. It might be the intangible that carries Hamilton over the line this season.

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Re: The Official Sir Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by JN23 »

‘I’ve never really been a driver that sticks it on pole’ :lol:

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Invade
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Re: The Official Sir Lewis Hamilton thread

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Is it just me or is Hamilton's race pace in Spain ridiculously strong? He was in the grooves of all grooves there in 2020 and he kicked his race pace into gear there in 2018 in emphatic fashion. Now another masterclass of race pace and adaptability of driving lines and race management in 2021.

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Re: The Official Sir Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by Johnson »

Hamilton on the form of his life, 8 wins in the last 10 races entered.

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Re: The Official Sir Lewis Hamilton thread

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Invade wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 6:00 pm
Is it just me or is Hamilton's race pace in Spain ridiculously strong? He was in the grooves of all grooves there in 2020 and he kicked his race pace into gear there in 2018 in emphatic fashion. Now another masterclass of race pace and adaptability of driving lines and race management in 2021.
Sir Lewis' comments after qualifying were foreboding. He set the car up with a very understeery front to preserve the tyres. I reckon it's what allowed him to stay within two seconds of Verstappen.
Johnson wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 6:14 pm
Hamilton on the form of his life, 8 wins in the last 10 races entered.
It's 14 in 19 as well! Crazy form!

It'd be nice for him to clinch his 100th win at Silverstone to take the checkered flag on the Hamilton Straight!
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Re: The Official Sir Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by Johnson »

Yes from the middle of 2018 and the infamous German GP "End of Vettel" , 52 races and..

1st - 33
2nd- 7
3rd- 5
4th - 3
5th - 1
7th - 2
9th - 1

Every race in the points

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Re: The Official Sir Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by Exediron »

Johnson wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 8:56 pm
Yes from the middle of 2018 and the infamous German GP "End of Vettel" , 52 races and..

1st - 33
2nd- 7
3rd- 5
4th - 3
5th - 1
7th - 2
9th - 1

Every race in the points
I don't think every race being in the points is impressive considering the car he's driving. The bit at the top, however, is very impressive.
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Johnson
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Re: The Official Sir Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by Johnson »

Impressive from Mercedes reliability wise, 1 mechanical race DNF since Malaysia 2016. That being Austria 2018.

Even including qualifying breakdowns he has had 3 issues in 5 years. Compared to the 6 issues in a 14 race period of 2016.

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Re: The Official Sir Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by JN23 »

Johnson wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 9:25 pm
Impressive from Mercedes reliability wise, 1 mechanical race DNF since Malaysia 2016. That being Austria 2018.

Even including qualifying breakdowns he has had 3 issues in 5 years. Compared to the 6 issues in a 14 race period of 2016.
Trying to think of the qualifying breakdowns off the top of my head... Germany 2018 and?

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Re: The Official Sir Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by DOLOMITE »

Another great drive from Hamilton again really demonstrating the level he is at, but this was very much to me a Schu/Ferrari joint-effort kind of win. Also makes the point again that for anyone to beat the Hamilton/Merc combination they will have to be fault free in every single area.
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