The Official Sir Lewis Hamilton thread

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F1Tyrant
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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by F1Tyrant »

Siao7 wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:01 pm
He said that F1 is not a level playing field, he felt that Hamilton having the best car in the field had an advantage. While other sports rely purely on the skills of the athletes, F1 is the combination of skill and machinery. Of course this happens to other sports and it is much more behind it, but he has at least backed his opinion and didn't just spout drivel
I'd like to see Ronnie O'Sullivan win a snooker match with a really poor quality cue tip. He's talking out of his backside, constantly slagging off the state of snooker tables at certain tournaments, pocket sizes all while playing with state of art snooker cues.

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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

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F1Tyrant wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:32 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:01 pm
He said that F1 is not a level playing field, he felt that Hamilton having the best car in the field had an advantage. While other sports rely purely on the skills of the athletes, F1 is the combination of skill and machinery. Of course this happens to other sports and it is much more behind it, but he has at least backed his opinion and didn't just spout drivel
I'd like to see Ronnie O'Sullivan win a snooker match with a really poor quality cue tip. He's talking out of his backside, constantly slagging off the state of snooker tables at certain tournaments, pocket sizes all while playing with state of art snooker cues.
Didn't Ken Doherty win his title with a £2 cue or something?

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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

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Siao7 wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:40 pm
Didn't Ken Doherty win his title with a £2 cue or something?
According to Wikipedia:
Wikipedia wrote:Doherty has played his entire career with a warped cue randomly selected from the cue rack in Jason's. He humorously revealed that the club manager originally wanted £5 for it, but Doherty haggled him down to £2.
That's impressive but Ronnie himself is a different beast. There have been several occasions he's changed tip mid-tournament (a massive risk).

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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by Siao7 »

F1Tyrant wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:48 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:40 pm
Didn't Ken Doherty win his title with a £2 cue or something?
According to Wikipedia:
Wikipedia wrote:Doherty has played his entire career with a warped cue randomly selected from the cue rack in Jason's. He humorously revealed that the club manager originally wanted £5 for it, but Doherty haggled him down to £2.
That's impressive but Ronnie himself is a different beast. There have been several occasions he's changed tip mid-tournament (a massive risk).
Haha, bargain!

I was never good enough at snooker to play it consistently, so pardon my ignorance. If it was a tip he has used before, why would that be a risk? Maybe he did it for psychological reasons? And how much of a difference would a tip make? Asking genuinely, although we are probably getting way off topic now

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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

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Back to to topic at hand:



Some really nice reflections from Hamilton as someone who pracitices mindfulness. The whole Mercedes environment seems so wholesome and nurturing and it's great to see their success.

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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by j man »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:40 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:54 pm
j man wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:37 pm
Banana Man wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:13 pm
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:25 pm


:thumbup: +1
I really dislike this kind of attitude; all it does for me is confirm that some people care more about point scoring and getting one over against ‘the other side’ of their viewpoint. Is that seriously what you guys all want; to see racists get as angry as possible? What do you all think an angry racist is going to do? What’s the end game here, you get all the racists as angry as possible and then.... suddenly they just become tolerant?

Whatever your views on the situation, I can’t stand the idea that people think this kind of childish sniping is somehow morally superior. Don’t kid yourselves, what you’re implying is that you WANT more racist abuse so you can all be sanctimonious about it.
Well said. The quality of debate around this sort of thing is utterly lamentable. Now I haven't read any of the comments being referenced (outside of this forum I personally don't use social media as it's mostly poisonous drivel), but I struggle to believe this idea that there are swathes of people expressing their disgust at a black person winning SPOTY. Or is this based on an assumption that anyone who disagrees with Lewis winning it must be a racist?

Anyway a well deserved award for Lewis, he got my vote as well. Not just for his sporting achievements, but for some of his off-track actions too. The Hamilton Commission that he set up this year to encourage more black children into STEM subjects is perhaps the single most constructive action that has come out of the 2020 BLM movement, and as someone who works in engineering and can see with my own eyes the under-representation of black people in the field I'm looking forward to seeing what comes out of it.
I don't buy the racist angle myself either (not that it doesn't happen), where were the racist idiots throwing toys out of the pram when Mo Farah won a few years ago?
Here's a couple I found after about 15 seconds of searching, which given how long ago it was, I was expecting it to be harder:

https://twitter.com/jordanvine1/status/ ... 7285089282
https://twitter.com/dirtybraces/status/ ... 2782729217
I don't see any racism in those posts. From what I can see these people are questioning (albeit poorly articulated) whether Farah should be able to win an award for British sportspeople given that he was born abroad to non-British parents, and any considerations of his skin colour are not mentioned or even implied. Now it's not a viewpoint I agree at all with given that he grew up here, has adopted the UK as his nationality and flies the Union flag with pride, but I don't see why expressing it makes someone a nasty racist idiot.

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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by j man »

F1Tyrant wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:18 pm
j man wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:37 pm
The quality of debate around this sort of thing is utterly lamentable.
Only because everybody involved is talking at cross purposes. It's about pwning your opponents rather than having a meaningful discussion. Twitter became intolerable because I try to build consensus and be pragmatic and I ended up in no-man's land being shot at from everywhere.
j man wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:37 pm
The Hamilton Commission that he set up this year to encourage more black children into STEM subjects is perhaps the single most constructive action that has come out of the 2020 BLM movement, and as someone who works in engineering and can see with my own eyes the under-representation of black people in the field I'm looking forward to seeing what comes out of it.
There is a rather fickle irony in you calling a superficial solution like the Hamilton Commission the most constructive given BLM has been highlighting the multi-factoral causes of BAME under-representation. These communities are poorer due to a combination of historical colonialism and racism which forced them into insular communities. They then succumbed to the downward spiral within all poor communities of being overworked, underpaid, domestic and community violence (including police and judicial violence), mental health problems, drug misuse, alcohol misuse which massively impacts educational outcomes.

The people who escape poverty traps like that in the vast majority of cases have both worked far harder than their white British counterparts and have been far luckier.

The only long term solution would be to invest heavily in poorer communities (regardless of demographics) with a focus on education. However, there is a broad reluctance for this as it would disproportionately benefit BAME people so called "reverse racism". Sadly, Liz Truss is charging headfirst for the latter.
Is the Hamilton Commission a superficial solution? To my knowledge it is still early days and it hasn't presented any recommendations yet. However it is its exact purpose to study the issue in detail and establish what the long term solutions should be, and so long as the political will is there to implement its recommendations I don't see why it can't bring about that lasting change that is needed.

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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

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Seems to me that the Hamilton Commission aims at (or should be about) establishing root cause and to then create plans of action which can cultivate an atmosphere of possibility and belief from the very beginning in the opportunities which are mostly open and present to any able individual. The problem is that this is an extraordinarily complex and difficult conundrum. Many of the problems are already baked in through a long history in which the deck was stacked.

I find one giant misconception to be the constant talking about 'equal opportunity' when the larger problem is 'equal belief' — but don't get me wrong, the opportunity isn't quite equal. This is down to perception and has deep sociological and psychological roots.

There's the basic phenomenon of people seeing colour in the first place; people talking about not seeing 'someone like me' in their desired field when the only difference in appearance is a shade — Hamilton and Simone Biles are examples. Not that it stopped them, but that it's a basic instinctual perception in itself is a problem. there's the general problem that seeing is believing, which affects persons of any colour or background and fosters beliefs which are largely circumstantial rather than being representative as some sort of truth or best order of life. Hence the slow movement of perception and the generally different treatment in American sports of black and white coaches, for example.

I wouldn't call it racism all the time as such, but a subtle perception which is caught up in a strong historical current which can't just be halted or redirected in a moment or through the course of a single generation, because a history of apparent facts, of effects, suggests the tried and trusted actions to take going forward.

I do think the next few generations will enact rapid change though and take on a somewhat ahistorical approach, and that some of the softwired aspects of general human psychology will be deracinated.

I''d like to think the Hamilton Commission can play a vital role in such a transformation.

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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

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Invade wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:14 pm
There's the basic phenomenon of people seeing colour in the first place; people talking about not seeing 'someone like me' in their desired field when the only difference in appearance is a shade — Hamilton and Simone Biles are examples.
Spot on! However, I feel that the current progressive fringe falls into the trap of greater stereotyping. They decry the "colourblind" world as part of the web of white supremacy. They seek to be acknowledged as their category and establish a hierarchy of disadvantage.

I feel it's deeply short-sighted and instead we need to lean away from "my identity" towards "my best self".

It's interesting that the whole seeing role models thing seems to lean heavily towards black people as Asians have seemingly prospered even when faced with horrific oppression (the recovery of Japanese-American internees after WWII). Its such a challenging and nuanced issue that maybe I as a white middle class bloke can't see the wood from the trees. It won't stop me trying though!

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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by Siao7 »

Invade wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:14 pm
Seems to me that the Hamilton Commission aims at (or should be about) establishing root cause and to then create plans of action which can cultivate an atmosphere of possibility and belief from the very beginning in the opportunities which are mostly open and present to any able individual. The problem is that this is an extraordinarily complex and difficult conundrum. Many of the problems are already baked in through a long history in which the deck was stacked.

I find one giant misconception to be the constant talking about 'equal opportunity' when the larger problem is 'equal belief' — but don't get me wrong, the opportunity isn't quite equal. This is down to perception and has deep sociological and psychological roots.

There's the basic phenomenon of people seeing colour in the first place; people talking about not seeing 'someone like me' in their desired field when the only difference in appearance is a shade — Hamilton and Simone Biles are examples. Not that it stopped them, but that it's a basic instinctual perception in itself is a problem. there's the general problem that seeing is believing, which affects persons of any colour or background and fosters beliefs which are largely circumstantial rather than being representative as some sort of truth or best order of life. Hence the slow movement of perception and the generally different treatment in American sports of black and white coaches, for example.

I wouldn't call it racism all the time as such, but a subtle perception which is caught up in a strong historical current which can't just be halted or redirected in a moment or through the course of a single generation, because a history of apparent facts, of effects, suggests the tried and trusted actions to take going forward.

I do think the next few generations will enact rapid change though and take on a somewhat ahistorical approach, and that some of the softwired aspects of general human psychology will be deracinated.

I''d like to think the Hamilton Commission can play a vital role in such a transformation.
Excellent post. The sad thing is that it shouldn't have been the Hamilton Commission doing this, but the government itself. At least, this is happening in the UK and I really do wish that this gets results; even more importantly, that other countries take a cue too and it gets some proper traction.

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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by Fiki »

Siao7 wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:21 pm
Fiki wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:12 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:29 pm
Invade wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:18 pm
Also, I'd like to start an official petition to get Lewis Hamilton to go by Carl Davidson just so we can have a different World Champion in 2021.


Who's with me...
I'm hearing a seat has opened up at Haas. Go on Lewis, you know you want to!
Please don't! I'm still recovering from when some thought Schumacher would win races in a Minardi.
Nah, Hamilton won't pull a Fittipaldi, he's cleverer than that!
That's not quite the same though. I fully respect Emmo's decision to work with his brother. Jacques Villeneuve's loyalty to his manager and friend also didn't work out, but that just illustrates that not every decision drivers take is low-risk. Whether Hamilton will ever tell us how confident he was in signing for Mercedes remains to be seen, but it does seem to have been much lower-risk than Ricciardo's, or JV's or Emmo's.
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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by Siao7 »

Fiki wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:02 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:21 pm
Fiki wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:12 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:29 pm
Invade wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:18 pm
Also, I'd like to start an official petition to get Lewis Hamilton to go by Carl Davidson just so we can have a different World Champion in 2021.


Who's with me...
I'm hearing a seat has opened up at Haas. Go on Lewis, you know you want to!
Please don't! I'm still recovering from when some thought Schumacher would win races in a Minardi.
Nah, Hamilton won't pull a Fittipaldi, he's cleverer than that!
That's not quite the same though. I fully respect Emmo's decision to work with his brother. Jacques Villeneuve's loyalty to his manager and friend also didn't work out, but that just illustrates that not every decision drivers take is low-risk. Whether Hamilton will ever tell us how confident he was in signing for Mercedes remains to be seen, but it does seem to have been much lower-risk than Ricciardo's, or JV's or Emmo's.
Fully agree

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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by F1Tyrant »

Fiki wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:02 pm
Whether Hamilton will ever tell us how confident he was in signing for Mercedes remains to be seen, but it does seem to have been much lower-risk than Ricciardo's, or JV's or Emmo's.
I'd regard Hamilton's decision to move to Mercedes as a lower risk version of Schumacher's move to Ferrari. Mercedes had Brawn, Bell, Willis and Costa in place (a team the subsequent strengthened with the hiring of Lowe, Allison and Murphy) while Ferrari only had Todt and a young Costa by the time of Schumachers arrival.

Signing for a works team is always a safer bet than signing for a privateer.

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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by pokerman »

Fiki wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:02 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:21 pm
Fiki wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:12 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:29 pm
Invade wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:18 pm
Also, I'd like to start an official petition to get Lewis Hamilton to go by Carl Davidson just so we can have a different World Champion in 2021.


Who's with me...
I'm hearing a seat has opened up at Haas. Go on Lewis, you know you want to!
Please don't! I'm still recovering from when some thought Schumacher would win races in a Minardi.
Nah, Hamilton won't pull a Fittipaldi, he's cleverer than that!
That's not quite the same though. I fully respect Emmo's decision to work with his brother. Jacques Villeneuve's loyalty to his manager and friend also didn't work out, but that just illustrates that not every decision drivers take is low-risk. Whether Hamilton will ever tell us how confident he was in signing for Mercedes remains to be seen, but it does seem to have been much lower-risk than Ricciardo's, or JV's or Emmo's.
Hardly, Williams lost their engine deal the year after JV's title winning year and he only managed 2 podiums in his final year with the team, he walked out of a team on the decline to a team paying him vastly more money.

Ricciardo walked out of a team that had managed 4 wins and 3 poles but were never in contention for the titles, Hamilton walked out of a team with 7 wins and 7 poles and Hamilton was leading the title race after 7 races.
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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by Exediron »

pokerman wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:10 pm
Ricciardo walked out of a team that had managed 4 wins and 3 poles but were never in contention for the titles, Hamilton walked out of a team with 7 wins and 7 poles and Hamilton was leading the title race after 7 races.
But, as was well known at the time and he has never denied since, Hamilton left McLaren because he believed they were operationally too weak to win championships. Like the others, he also left a team he didn't believe could deliver him a title.
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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by BMWSauber84 »

Fiki wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:02 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:21 pm
Fiki wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:12 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:29 pm
Invade wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:18 pm
Also, I'd like to start an official petition to get Lewis Hamilton to go by Carl Davidson just so we can have a different World Champion in 2021.


Who's with me...
I'm hearing a seat has opened up at Haas. Go on Lewis, you know you want to!
Please don't! I'm still recovering from when some thought Schumacher would win races in a Minardi.
Nah, Hamilton won't pull a Fittipaldi, he's cleverer than that!
That's not quite the same though. I fully respect Emmo's decision to work with his brother. Jacques Villeneuve's loyalty to his manager and friend also didn't work out, but that just illustrates that not every decision drivers take is low-risk. Whether Hamilton will ever tell us how confident he was in signing for Mercedes remains to be seen, but it does seem to have been much lower-risk than Ricciardo's, or JV's or Emmo's.
I think there are two aspects to consider when risk assessing a driver's move. The prospects of your current team Vs the prospects of your prospective new team. Some driver moves are very low risk either way either because for example they are leaving one average team for another, or leaving a successful team for another successful team.

Fittipaldi was leaving a successful team (1974 world champion and the car won races in 75) for a completely unproven outfit for reasons of family and probably a bit of vanity. That's a big risk on both fronts. I'd imagine there were very very few at the time who believed it was a good career move.

Villeneuve was leaving a team that had been extremely successful but looked like it was in a slump to join a very rich new team. I would say it was moderate-high risk on both fronts as a lot of people probably felt Williams would return to the summit at some point (ha), but there's no doubt that BAR had the budget to be successful.

Ricciardo left a team that was generally the third best at the time (although 2017 and 2017 seemed very circuit dependent for all three main teams) where he felt he would be playing second fiddle. He moved to a midfield team that promised a big 2021 season. That move to me seemed like a bit of an emotional gamble. That said, being a factory team has been crucial in the turbo hybrid era, so I can see why it appealed to him. Moderately risky on leaving Red Bull, very risky joining Renault.

Hamilton's move was the riskiest of all in terms of the team he was leaving. I can imagine even he felt like he was possibly letting a drivers title challenge slip through his fingers for 2013. As it happens, the move benefitted him even in the short term. I do remember rumblings very early on in their comeback of Mercedes being confident that they would be successful when the 2013 (later postponed to 2014) regulations would come in. I can see why their diabolical second half of 2012 would have put many off, but I myself expected them to be amongst the title fight in 2014. I certainly didn't expect a complete McLaren collapse and utter Mercedes domination though.

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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by pokerman »

Exediron wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:35 pm
pokerman wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:10 pm
Ricciardo walked out of a team that had managed 4 wins and 3 poles but were never in contention for the titles, Hamilton walked out of a team with 7 wins and 7 poles and Hamilton was leading the title race after 7 races.
But, as was well known at the time and he has never denied since, Hamilton left McLaren because he believed they were operationally too weak to win championships. Like the others, he also left a team he didn't believe could deliver him a title.
I wouldn't disagree with that just the notion that he took less risk, Hamilton lead the title hunt both in 2010 and 2012, in 2012 McLaren finished the season with the fastest car, Ricciardo never came remotely close to a title challenge at Red Bull and like I said JV in his final year at Williams only netted 2 podiums yet we are too believe that both Ricciardo and JV took more risk.
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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by Exediron »

pokerman wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:56 pm
Exediron wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:35 pm
pokerman wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:10 pm
Ricciardo walked out of a team that had managed 4 wins and 3 poles but were never in contention for the titles, Hamilton walked out of a team with 7 wins and 7 poles and Hamilton was leading the title race after 7 races.
But, as was well known at the time and he has never denied since, Hamilton left McLaren because he believed they were operationally too weak to win championships. Like the others, he also left a team he didn't believe could deliver him a title.
I wouldn't disagree with that just the notion that he took less risk, Hamilton lead the title hunt both in 2010 and 2012, in 2012 McLaren finished the season with the fastest car, Ricciardo never came remotely close to a title challenge at Red Bull and like I said JV in his final year at Williams only netted 2 podiums yet we are too believe that both Ricciardo and JV took more risk.
I think Ricciardo took pretty much exactly the same risk as Hamilton, with the balance a little different. He left a team that had been title-capable in the recent past, but wasn't any longer, for a team mired in the midfield that was promising big things ahead of the next regulation change. The difference, of course, is that Renault is yet to deliver on that promise -- and if they do, it won't be Ricciardo reaping the benefits.

JV I think took the least risk, because the decline of his own career and the fortunes of the Williams team in 1998 were much sharper than for either Ricciardo or Hamilton. He picked the best landing spot he could, but he needed to get out of there.
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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by Fiki »

F1Tyrant wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:44 pm
Fiki wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:02 pm
Whether Hamilton will ever tell us how confident he was in signing for Mercedes remains to be seen, but it does seem to have been much lower-risk than Ricciardo's, or JV's or Emmo's.
I'd regard Hamilton's decision to move to Mercedes as a lower risk version of Schumacher's move to Ferrari. Mercedes had Brawn, Bell, Willis and Costa in place (a team the subsequent strengthened with the hiring of Lowe, Allison and Murphy) while Ferrari only had Todt and a young Costa by the time of Schumachers arrival.

Signing for a works team is always a safer bet than signing for a privateer.
I can only agree with your last line, but you raise an interesting point about Schumacher going to Ferrari. These days it is hard to find good documentation about that infamous 1994 season, but it was during that late summer that Schumacher and his manager signed for Ferrari. An agreement was reached that Schumacher would stay one more year at Benetton, instead of leaving after the '94 season. At that time, Ferrari had Todt, Barnard, Brunner and Martinelli at the main departments and I would argue that must have seemed less of a risk than looking only at 1996 when Schumacher was actually in place.

I find the other comments also interesting, particularly BMWSauber84's on team prospects. This made me look up when McLaren was dropped by Marlboro (or rather Philip Morris), and their final season together was 1996. I looked this up remembering how Lauda once said that before talking to the team (McLaren or/and Ferrari), he would first stop by Philip Morris at Lausanne. The money side of things is not to be forgotten, as Pokerman also points out in relation to Villeneuve. And dropping McLaren made a lot of money available to Ferrari for 1997 and beyond. But to think Ferrari were nowhere with their Barnard cars is simply wrong. Ferrari were 3rd in both the 1994 and 1995 seasons, still having the V12 engines.

Money and engines seem to be a point Ferrari then, and Mercedes now have in common.

And engines are what I think Lauda and Hamilton talked about most, when considering the prospects of the team when the new engine rules, for which Mercedes had fought so hard, would be coming in.
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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by pokerman »

Exediron wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:44 pm
pokerman wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:56 pm
Exediron wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:35 pm
pokerman wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:10 pm
Ricciardo walked out of a team that had managed 4 wins and 3 poles but were never in contention for the titles, Hamilton walked out of a team with 7 wins and 7 poles and Hamilton was leading the title race after 7 races.
But, as was well known at the time and he has never denied since, Hamilton left McLaren because he believed they were operationally too weak to win championships. Like the others, he also left a team he didn't believe could deliver him a title.
I wouldn't disagree with that just the notion that he took less risk, Hamilton lead the title hunt both in 2010 and 2012, in 2012 McLaren finished the season with the fastest car, Ricciardo never came remotely close to a title challenge at Red Bull and like I said JV in his final year at Williams only netted 2 podiums yet we are too believe that both Ricciardo and JV took more risk.
I think Ricciardo took pretty much exactly the same risk as Hamilton, with the balance a little different. He left a team that had been title-capable in the recent past, but wasn't any longer, for a team mired in the midfield that was promising big things ahead of the next regulation change. The difference, of course, is that Renault is yet to deliver on that promise -- and if they do, it won't be Ricciardo reaping the benefits.

JV I think took the least risk, because the decline of his own career and the fortunes of the Williams team in 1998 were much sharper than for either Ricciardo or Hamilton. He picked the best landing spot he could, but he needed to get out of there.
I have to totally disagree, although Hamilton might have had revisions about McLaren's organisational competence he still believed in their ability to produce a WDC capable car, whereas Ricciardo had no confidence at all in Red Bull's ability to do likewise especially with Honda coming onboard and let's not forget the teams Red Bull were up against Mercedes and even Ferrari were better.

Also Ricciardo was up against a teammate that was better than him both in qualifying and the races, another season against Max could put risk to his standing in the sport, leaving Red Bull has enabled him to avoid that and he's been able to maintain a strong reputation by beating weaker drivers than Max plus the way Max has dealt with more recent teammates has only added to Ricciardo's reputation, whilst Red Bull has carried on doing what he believed they would, winning the odd race every season without being WDC contenders.
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pokerman
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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by pokerman »

Fiki wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:57 pm
F1Tyrant wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:44 pm
Fiki wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:02 pm
Whether Hamilton will ever tell us how confident he was in signing for Mercedes remains to be seen, but it does seem to have been much lower-risk than Ricciardo's, or JV's or Emmo's.
I'd regard Hamilton's decision to move to Mercedes as a lower risk version of Schumacher's move to Ferrari. Mercedes had Brawn, Bell, Willis and Costa in place (a team the subsequent strengthened with the hiring of Lowe, Allison and Murphy) while Ferrari only had Todt and a young Costa by the time of Schumachers arrival.

Signing for a works team is always a safer bet than signing for a privateer.
I can only agree with your last line, but you raise an interesting point about Schumacher going to Ferrari. These days it is hard to find good documentation about that infamous 1994 season, but it was during that late summer that Schumacher and his manager signed for Ferrari. An agreement was reached that Schumacher would stay one more year at Benetton, instead of leaving after the '94 season. At that time, Ferrari had Todt, Barnard, Brunner and Martinelli at the main departments and I would argue that must have seemed less of a risk than looking only at 1996 when Schumacher was actually in place.

I find the other comments also interesting, particularly BMWSauber84's on team prospects. This made me look up when McLaren was dropped by Marlboro (or rather Philip Morris), and their final season together was 1996. I looked this up remembering how Lauda once said that before talking to the team (McLaren or/and Ferrari), he would first stop by Philip Morris at Lausanne. The money side of things is not to be forgotten, as Pokerman also points out in relation to Villeneuve. And dropping McLaren made a lot of money available to Ferrari for 1997 and beyond. But to think Ferrari were nowhere with their Barnard cars is simply wrong. Ferrari were 3rd in both the 1994 and 1995 seasons, still having the V12 engines.

Money and engines seem to be a point Ferrari then, and Mercedes now have in common.

And engines are what I think Lauda and Hamilton talked about most, when considering the prospects of the team when the new engine rules, for which Mercedes had fought so hard, would be coming in.
I didn't realise how early Schumacher signed for Ferrari, as already been pointed out the money was one big reason for signing for Ferrari but another reason I believe was the cheating allegations raised against Benetton and the harm it was feared to Schumacher's reputation.

To be wanting to leave a team long before he'd even won his first title for them suggests a need to get out quick.
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KingVoid
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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by KingVoid »

F1Tyrant wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:32 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:01 pm
He said that F1 is not a level playing field, he felt that Hamilton having the best car in the field had an advantage. While other sports rely purely on the skills of the athletes, F1 is the combination of skill and machinery. Of course this happens to other sports and it is much more behind it, but he has at least backed his opinion and didn't just spout drivel
I'd like to see Ronnie O'Sullivan win a snooker match with a really poor quality cue tip. He's talking out of his backside, constantly slagging off the state of snooker tables at certain tournaments, pocket sizes all while playing with state of art snooker cues.
Sports like snooker and tennis are a far more level playing field than Formula 1, that is undeniable.

This is a hugely unpopular opinion, but I honestly wouldn’t mind Formula 1 becoming a spec series in the future. Let the best driver win.

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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by Exediron »

KingVoid wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:57 pm
This is a hugely unpopular opinion, but I honestly wouldn’t mind Formula 1 becoming a spec series in the future. Let the best driver win.
It's a hugely unpopular opinion for a good reason. You're choosing to take the element that you in particular like (drivers) and dumping out what actually constitutes 80-90% of the sport (the teams). Obviously, that won't be popular.
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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by KingVoid »

Exediron wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:57 am
KingVoid wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:57 pm
This is a hugely unpopular opinion, but I honestly wouldn’t mind Formula 1 becoming a spec series in the future. Let the best driver win.
It's a hugely unpopular opinion for a good reason. You're choosing to take the element that you in particular like (drivers) and dumping out what actually constitutes 80-90% of the sport (the teams). Obviously, that won't be popular.
The drivers have always been the main attraction for me. I have never cared that much about the teams or meaningless technical innovations like DAS.

This is all personal preference obviously.

I also believe that Formula 1 is slowly but surely heading in the direction of a spec series. The budget cap, the decision to give teams who finish lower in the WCC more windtunnel development time... they all point towards deliberate attempts to make the cars as equal as possible.

And that is a good thing

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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

KingVoid wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:22 am
Exediron wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:57 am
KingVoid wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:57 pm
This is a hugely unpopular opinion, but I honestly wouldn’t mind Formula 1 becoming a spec series in the future. Let the best driver win.
It's a hugely unpopular opinion for a good reason. You're choosing to take the element that you in particular like (drivers) and dumping out what actually constitutes 80-90% of the sport (the teams). Obviously, that won't be popular.
The drivers have always been the main attraction for me. I have never cared that much about the teams or meaningless technical innovations like DAS.

This is all personal preference obviously.

I also believe that Formula 1 is slowly but surely heading in the direction of a spec series. The budget cap, the decision to give teams who finish lower in the WCC more windtunnel development time... they all point towards deliberate attempts to make the cars as equal as possible.

And that is a good thing
The budget caps and more wind tunnel time for the lower teams are designed to give those teams more opportunity to fight for points/wins, not for them to create identical cars to the top teams.
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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by KingVoid »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:27 am
KingVoid wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:22 am
Exediron wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:57 am
KingVoid wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:57 pm
This is a hugely unpopular opinion, but I honestly wouldn’t mind Formula 1 becoming a spec series in the future. Let the best driver win.
It's a hugely unpopular opinion for a good reason. You're choosing to take the element that you in particular like (drivers) and dumping out what actually constitutes 80-90% of the sport (the teams). Obviously, that won't be popular.
The drivers have always been the main attraction for me. I have never cared that much about the teams or meaningless technical innovations like DAS.

This is all personal preference obviously.

I also believe that Formula 1 is slowly but surely heading in the direction of a spec series. The budget cap, the decision to give teams who finish lower in the WCC more windtunnel development time... they all point towards deliberate attempts to make the cars as equal as possible.

And that is a good thing
The budget caps and more wind tunnel time for the lower teams are designed to give those teams more opportunity to fight for points/wins, not for them to create identical cars to the top teams.
Perhaps I am using the word spec series more loosely. What I mean is that with the windtunnel regulations and budget cap, the gap between teams will be smaller in the future. I don’t believe that we will ever see a team as dominant as Mercedes ever again.

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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by Mort Canard »

F1Tyrant wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:44 pm
Fiki wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:02 pm
Whether Hamilton will ever tell us how confident he was in signing for Mercedes remains to be seen, but it does seem to have been much lower-risk than Ricciardo's, or JV's or Emmo's.
I'd regard Hamilton's decision to move to Mercedes as a lower risk version of Schumacher's move to Ferrari. Mercedes had Brawn, Bell, Willis and Costa in place (a team the subsequent strengthened with the hiring of Lowe, Allison and Murphy) while Ferrari only had Todt and a young Costa by the time of Schumachers arrival.

Signing for a works team is always a safer bet than signing for a privateer.
Well, don't forget that when Schumacher left Benetton for Ferrari he took Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne with him. It's not like he arrived at Team Red with just his driving suit and helmet. Brawn and Byrne were responsible for designing the cars for every one of his wins with Benetton. Brawn and Byrne ended up engineering the cars for every win for his entire career. Jean Todt certainly added to the mix of expertise, but Schumacher won two titles without him.
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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by pokerman »

KingVoid wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:57 pm
F1Tyrant wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:32 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:01 pm
He said that F1 is not a level playing field, he felt that Hamilton having the best car in the field had an advantage. While other sports rely purely on the skills of the athletes, F1 is the combination of skill and machinery. Of course this happens to other sports and it is much more behind it, but he has at least backed his opinion and didn't just spout drivel
I'd like to see Ronnie O'Sullivan win a snooker match with a really poor quality cue tip. He's talking out of his backside, constantly slagging off the state of snooker tables at certain tournaments, pocket sizes all while playing with state of art snooker cues.
Sports like snooker and tennis are a far more level playing field than Formula 1, that is undeniable.

This is a hugely unpopular opinion, but I honestly wouldn’t mind Formula 1 becoming a spec series in the future. Let the best driver win.
The best drivers don't always win in spec series because of things like safety cars.
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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by KingVoid »

pokerman wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:29 pm
KingVoid wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:57 pm
F1Tyrant wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:32 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:01 pm
He said that F1 is not a level playing field, he felt that Hamilton having the best car in the field had an advantage. While other sports rely purely on the skills of the athletes, F1 is the combination of skill and machinery. Of course this happens to other sports and it is much more behind it, but he has at least backed his opinion and didn't just spout drivel
I'd like to see Ronnie O'Sullivan win a snooker match with a really poor quality cue tip. He's talking out of his backside, constantly slagging off the state of snooker tables at certain tournaments, pocket sizes all while playing with state of art snooker cues.
Sports like snooker and tennis are a far more level playing field than Formula 1, that is undeniable.

This is a hugely unpopular opinion, but I honestly wouldn’t mind Formula 1 becoming a spec series in the future. Let the best driver win.
The best drivers don't always win in spec series because of things like safety cars.
A safety car can influence one race, but over an entire season in spec cars, it will become pretty obvious who the best driver is (even more so over 5, 10 seasons).

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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by pokerman »

KingVoid wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:45 pm
pokerman wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:29 pm
KingVoid wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:57 pm
F1Tyrant wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:32 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:01 pm
He said that F1 is not a level playing field, he felt that Hamilton having the best car in the field had an advantage. While other sports rely purely on the skills of the athletes, F1 is the combination of skill and machinery. Of course this happens to other sports and it is much more behind it, but he has at least backed his opinion and didn't just spout drivel
I'd like to see Ronnie O'Sullivan win a snooker match with a really poor quality cue tip. He's talking out of his backside, constantly slagging off the state of snooker tables at certain tournaments, pocket sizes all while playing with state of art snooker cues.
Sports like snooker and tennis are a far more level playing field than Formula 1, that is undeniable.

This is a hugely unpopular opinion, but I honestly wouldn’t mind Formula 1 becoming a spec series in the future. Let the best driver win.
The best drivers don't always win in spec series because of things like safety cars.
A safety car can influence one race, but over an entire season in spec cars, it will become pretty obvious who the best driver is (even more so over 5, 10 seasons).
It still prevents the sport from being as fair as snooker or tennis, in these sports if you lose a match you're out of the tournament, the safety car is wont to be also called the spectacle car however I must admit not as bad in F1 as some actual spec series.

I can fully understand people wanting the cars to be more equal but the best driver actually winning will never have the same level of guarantee as in the likes of snooker or tennis.
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KingVoid
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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by KingVoid »

pokerman wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:09 pm
It still prevents the sport from being as fair as snooker or tennis, in these sports if you lose a match you're out of the tournament, the safety car is wont to be also called the spectacle car however I must admit not as bad in F1 as some actual spec series.

I can fully understand people wanting the cars to be more equal but the best driver actually winning will never have the same level of guarantee as in the likes of snooker or tennis.
There is a far bigger chance of the best driver winning if the cars are equal. That is precisely my point. It doesn’t have to be as equal as snooker to be a fair sport.

In the current situation we are in, the car decides 90% of the outcome. That inevitably leads to comments like the ones from Ronnie O’Sullivan.

I don’t expect Formula 1 to ever become a complete spec series, but the changes made for 2022 are heading in the right direction. I would also like to see an engine freeze and convergence on performance, I’ve heard rumours about that as well.

We are heading in the right direction, it’s just a shame that Hamilton won’t be around for long enough to actually compete against Verstappen or Leclerc on a level playing field.

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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

KingVoid wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:01 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:27 am
KingVoid wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:22 am
Exediron wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:57 am
KingVoid wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:57 pm
This is a hugely unpopular opinion, but I honestly wouldn’t mind Formula 1 becoming a spec series in the future. Let the best driver win.
It's a hugely unpopular opinion for a good reason. You're choosing to take the element that you in particular like (drivers) and dumping out what actually constitutes 80-90% of the sport (the teams). Obviously, that won't be popular.
The drivers have always been the main attraction for me. I have never cared that much about the teams or meaningless technical innovations like DAS.

This is all personal preference obviously.

I also believe that Formula 1 is slowly but surely heading in the direction of a spec series. The budget cap, the decision to give teams who finish lower in the WCC more windtunnel development time... they all point towards deliberate attempts to make the cars as equal as possible.

And that is a good thing
The budget caps and more wind tunnel time for the lower teams are designed to give those teams more opportunity to fight for points/wins, not for them to create identical cars to the top teams.
Perhaps I am using the word spec series more loosely. What I mean is that with the windtunnel regulations and budget cap, the gap between teams will be smaller in the future. I don’t believe that we will ever see a team as dominant as Mercedes ever again.
Maybe. I can't believe any true fan would be against teams being much closer in terms of performance, but a lot of them, myself included, like looking at the different ways the regulations have been interpreted. That said, there are some parts that I would love to be standardised, namely the front and rear wings. Then can then be free to channel the air across the rest of the car as they wish. Wing regulation would go a long way to reducing issues with following the car in front closely.
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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by KingVoid »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:24 pm
KingVoid wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:01 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:27 am
KingVoid wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:22 am
Exediron wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:57 am


It's a hugely unpopular opinion for a good reason. You're choosing to take the element that you in particular like (drivers) and dumping out what actually constitutes 80-90% of the sport (the teams). Obviously, that won't be popular.
The drivers have always been the main attraction for me. I have never cared that much about the teams or meaningless technical innovations like DAS.

This is all personal preference obviously.

I also believe that Formula 1 is slowly but surely heading in the direction of a spec series. The budget cap, the decision to give teams who finish lower in the WCC more windtunnel development time... they all point towards deliberate attempts to make the cars as equal as possible.

And that is a good thing
The budget caps and more wind tunnel time for the lower teams are designed to give those teams more opportunity to fight for points/wins, not for them to create identical cars to the top teams.
Perhaps I am using the word spec series more loosely. What I mean is that with the windtunnel regulations and budget cap, the gap between teams will be smaller in the future. I don’t believe that we will ever see a team as dominant as Mercedes ever again.
Maybe. I can't believe any true fan would be against teams being much closer in terms of performance, but a lot of them, myself included, like looking at the different ways the regulations have been interpreted. That said, there are some parts that I would love to be standardised, namely the front and rear wings. Then can then be free to channel the air across the rest of the car as they wish. Wing regulation would go a long way to reducing issues with following the car in front closely.
I would also love for engine performance to be standardized.

Seriously, this engine war since 2014 has been one of the biggest killers of excitement in Formula 1. Red Bull being handicapped with inferior power units has prevented us from watching talented drivers Ricciardo or Verstappen complete against Hamilton on a level playing field.

Alonso, Ricciardo, Verstappen... three of the most talented driver on the grid have had 7-8 years of their careers completely wasted because they were stuck with an inferior engine.

Then people wonder why someone like Ronnie O’Sullivan (who competes in a sport with parity) doesn’t rate Hamilton’s accomplishments.

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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by pokerman »

KingVoid wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:50 pm
pokerman wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:09 pm
It still prevents the sport from being as fair as snooker or tennis, in these sports if you lose a match you're out of the tournament, the safety car is wont to be also called the spectacle car however I must admit not as bad in F1 as some actual spec series.

I can fully understand people wanting the cars to be more equal but the best driver actually winning will never have the same level of guarantee as in the likes of snooker or tennis.
There is a far bigger chance of the best driver winning if the cars are equal. That is precisely my point. It doesn’t have to be as equal as snooker to be a fair sport.

In the current situation we are in, the car decides 90% of the outcome. That inevitably leads to comments like the ones from Ronnie O’Sullivan.

I don’t expect Formula 1 to ever become a complete spec series, but the changes made for 2022 are heading in the right direction. I would also like to see an engine freeze and convergence on performance, I’ve heard rumours about that as well.

We are heading in the right direction, it’s just a shame that Hamilton won’t be around for long enough to actually compete against Verstappen or Leclerc on a level playing field.
Without a doubt but like I was saying just let's not kid ourselves that motor racing could ever be as pure a sport as the likes of snooker and tennis to ensure that the best person becomes champion, even in F2, a spec series, the teams are not equal, in Indycars, a spec series, the teams are not equal.

The unfairness of F1 has always been there it's just that Mercedes took it to another level, the game was always for the best drivers to navigate themselves into the best cars, Hamilton has played the game the best and it certainly wasn't given to him, I would say that McLaren never actually gave him the best car or best opportunity, a very good car at times if that's how we judge a car at winning a few races every year.

I'm not really against the equalising which I guess basically comes into place like you say in 2022, I'm sure in the first 7 years of his F1 career Hamilton could have had more success and it's hard to see the Vettel dominance occurring, it seems like a certain degree of dominance was alright but Mercedes just took it too far.

I am a bit curious about the outrage over spec cars but spec engines are alright, this again I think is a bit of Mercedes paranoia that they are guaranteed the best engine, it's alright for a driver to be disadvantaged with an inferior car but not an inferior engine which I've always found a bit strange when historically the biggest advantage you could lay at the cars.
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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by pokerman »

KingVoid wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:06 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:24 pm
KingVoid wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:01 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:27 am
KingVoid wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:22 am

The drivers have always been the main attraction for me. I have never cared that much about the teams or meaningless technical innovations like DAS.

This is all personal preference obviously.

I also believe that Formula 1 is slowly but surely heading in the direction of a spec series. The budget cap, the decision to give teams who finish lower in the WCC more windtunnel development time... they all point towards deliberate attempts to make the cars as equal as possible.

And that is a good thing
The budget caps and more wind tunnel time for the lower teams are designed to give those teams more opportunity to fight for points/wins, not for them to create identical cars to the top teams.
Perhaps I am using the word spec series more loosely. What I mean is that with the windtunnel regulations and budget cap, the gap between teams will be smaller in the future. I don’t believe that we will ever see a team as dominant as Mercedes ever again.
Maybe. I can't believe any true fan would be against teams being much closer in terms of performance, but a lot of them, myself included, like looking at the different ways the regulations have been interpreted. That said, there are some parts that I would love to be standardised, namely the front and rear wings. Then can then be free to channel the air across the rest of the car as they wish. Wing regulation would go a long way to reducing issues with following the car in front closely.
I would also love for engine performance to be standardized.

Seriously, this engine war since 2014 has been one of the biggest killers of excitement in Formula 1. Red Bull being handicapped with inferior power units has prevented us from watching talented drivers Ricciardo or Verstappen complete against Hamilton on a level playing field.

Alonso, Ricciardo, Verstappen... three of the most talented driver on the grid have had 7-8 years of their careers completely wasted because they were stuck with an inferior engine.

Then people wonder why someone like Ronnie O’Sullivan (who competes in a sport with parity) doesn’t rate Hamilton’s accomplishments.
You're somewhat living in the past and laying off some exaggerations, there's not that big a difference in engines now apart from Ferrari, and we know the reason for that, Ferrari are set to close most of that gap, Vettel enjoyed a bigger car difference during his title years

Also Red Bull suffered 5 years of uncompetitive engines, not 8 years, this after 4 years of car dominance, but now we seem to be talking of what's fair for the teams rather than the drivers.
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mikeyg123
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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 7:18 pm
KingVoid wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:50 pm
pokerman wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:09 pm
It still prevents the sport from being as fair as snooker or tennis, in these sports if you lose a match you're out of the tournament, the safety car is wont to be also called the spectacle car however I must admit not as bad in F1 as some actual spec series.

I can fully understand people wanting the cars to be more equal but the best driver actually winning will never have the same level of guarantee as in the likes of snooker or tennis.
There is a far bigger chance of the best driver winning if the cars are equal. That is precisely my point. It doesn’t have to be as equal as snooker to be a fair sport.

In the current situation we are in, the car decides 90% of the outcome. That inevitably leads to comments like the ones from Ronnie O’Sullivan.

I don’t expect Formula 1 to ever become a complete spec series, but the changes made for 2022 are heading in the right direction. I would also like to see an engine freeze and convergence on performance, I’ve heard rumours about that as well.

We are heading in the right direction, it’s just a shame that Hamilton won’t be around for long enough to actually compete against Verstappen or Leclerc on a level playing field.
Without a doubt but like I was saying just let's not kid ourselves that motor racing could ever be as pure a sport as the likes of snooker and tennis to ensure that the best person becomes champion, even in F2, a spec series, the teams are not equal, in Indycars, a spec series, the teams are not equal.

The unfairness of F1 has always been there it's just that Mercedes took it to another level, the game was always for the best drivers to navigate themselves into the best cars, Hamilton has played the game the best and it certainly wasn't given to him, I would say that McLaren never actually gave him the best car or best opportunity, a very good car at times if that's how we judge a car at winning a few races every year.

I'm not really against the equalising which I guess basically comes into place like you say in 2022, I'm sure in the first 7 years of his F1 career Hamilton could have had more success and it's hard to see the Vettel dominance occurring, it seems like a certain degree of dominance was alright but Mercedes just took it too far.

I am a bit curious about the outrage over spec cars but spec engines are alright, this again I think is a bit of Mercedes paranoia that they are guaranteed the best engine, it's alright for a driver to be disadvantaged with an inferior car but not an inferior engine which I've always found a bit strange when historically the biggest advantage you could lay at the cars.
Because the vast majority of teams have no opportunity to improve their engines. It feels unfair for a team to be hobbled by an inferior product they are purchasing.

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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by KingVoid »

I am a bit curious about the outrage over spec cars but spec engines are alright, this again I think is a bit of Mercedes paranoia that they are guaranteed the best engine, it's alright for a driver to be disadvantaged with an inferior car but not an inferior engine which I've always found a bit strange when historically the biggest advantage you could lay at the cars.
During the V8 era, when the engines were close to spec, the racing was generally much better and the field was closer. This hybrid engine formula has killed competition in Formula 1, that is why I am ok with engine freeze.

Anyway. I am a Verstappen fan, but I never want to see him easily dominate for eons like Hamilton has done with Mercedes. That would be a complete waste of Verstappen’s racing talent. If Max does win titles in the future, I want them to hard fought, not gifted to him. Winning means more if there is actual competition.

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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

I think it's worth remembering that Brawn GP destroyed all opposition due to what was basically a single aero device. A complicated one I grant you, but still a single bit of kit that worked brilliantly and exploited the regulations wonderfully.
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Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by KingVoid »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 7:39 pm
I think it's worth remembering that Brawn GP destroyed all opposition due to what was basically a single aero device. A complicated one I grant you, but still a single bit of kit that worked brilliantly and exploited the regulations wonderfully.
In 2009, the gap between the first and last car in qualifying was regularly 1 second.

In the first half of this season, that was regularly the gap between Mercedes and the nearest non-Mercedes.

Paolo_Lasardi
Posts: 2761
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 2:04 pm

Re: The Official Lewis Hamilton thread

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

Mort Canard wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:58 pm
F1Tyrant wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:44 pm
Fiki wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:02 pm
Whether Hamilton will ever tell us how confident he was in signing for Mercedes remains to be seen, but it does seem to have been much lower-risk than Ricciardo's, or JV's or Emmo's.
I'd regard Hamilton's decision to move to Mercedes as a lower risk version of Schumacher's move to Ferrari. Mercedes had Brawn, Bell, Willis and Costa in place (a team the subsequent strengthened with the hiring of Lowe, Allison and Murphy) while Ferrari only had Todt and a young Costa by the time of Schumachers arrival.

Signing for a works team is always a safer bet than signing for a privateer.
Well, don't forget that when Schumacher left Benetton for Ferrari he took Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne with him. It's not like he arrived at Team Red with just his driving suit and helmet. Brawn and Byrne were responsible for designing the cars for every one of his wins with Benetton. Brawn and Byrne ended up engineering the cars for every win for his entire career. Jean Todt certainly added to the mix of expertise, but Schumacher won two titles without him.
It was Jean Todt that organized Byrne, Brawn and Schumacher to all be at Ferrari. He basically bought out Benetton's team for success. He was the architect of the golden Ferrari years.

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