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As some of you may remember once upon a time a long time ago Kate and I set up the official Adrian Sutil thread because the poor guy, ok I don't rate him that highly but he deserved a thread, didn't have a thread of his own. Shortly after we set up said thread Sutil went on a terrible run of results that led us to believe, and I'm sure Guia has some stats to back it up somewhere, that we jinxed poor Adrian.

So, the thread is back and it is back with a bang.

So pop open the champagne, plastic glasses are advised, and celebrate Sutil's return with us. (the best but about his return for me is that I get to reopen this thread I'll be honest). Let's get this thing running, not like Sutil hopefully going on past evidence, and dive in like a dolphin.

Adrian was an ace in wet conditions. People have forgotten how he excelled then.

His best result was 4th I think in Monza 09.

LOL.. So is this thread up again to jinx him?

Laura23 wrote:As some of you may remember once upon a time a long time ago Kate and I set up the official Adrian Sutil thread because the poor guy, ok I don't rate him that highly but he deserved a thread, didn't have a thread of his own. Shortly after we set up said thread Sutil went on a terrible run of results that led us to believe, and I'm sure Guia has some stats to back it up somewhere, that we jinxed poor Adrian.

So, the thread is back and it is back with a bang.

So pop open the champagne, plastic glasses are advised, and celebrate Sutil's return with us. (the best but about his return for me is that I get to reopen this thread I'll be honest). Let's get this thing running, not like Sutil hopefully going on past evidence, and dive in like a dolphin.

Glad that you have taken the initiative.

I've been his fan not just since he was with Force India but since then when he was with Spyker & hen Midland.

Spyker was born from Jordan ashes & that team was my favorite, not just because of it's brilliant yellow guise.

Sutil may not have scored a win or a podium, but he surely is a strong midfield driver. When he was with Force India earlier, that time Force india was only getting stronger, but not as much as 2012.

I'm 1 of the happiest in this forum, if not the happiest on Sutil's return. Still remember his great efforts to score a well deserved 9th in the WDC results in 2011. Had he not had a court case, Force India would've surely retained him, because his position in the 2011 WDC results was not something to be overlooked.

Hulk's departure was a blessing for Sutil. Will be rooting for Sutil as always!

Cheers Sutil! Not being sarcastic.

Race2win wrote:LOL.. So is this thread up again to jinx him?

No. Not at all. I would never do something as underhanded as that.

Until Kate posts I refuse to accept this is the official thread.

Laura23 wrote:

Race2win wrote:LOL.. So is this thread up again to jinx him?

No. Not at all. I would never do something as underhanded as that.

Ahh... just kidding. However Im not gonna use plastic glasses, im getting a proper glass for Sutil (if he'd like to join us) and for myself.

P-F1 Mod wrote:Until Kate posts I refuse to accept this is the official thread.

Glad to see Sutil got another chance after that cad Eric Lux showed up. Hope he does well

I don't mind Sutil. There, I said it. He's not super-amazing but for on-track performance he didn't deserve to be seatless in 2012. Maybe we shouldn't go into off-track....

And with that, the thread is inaugurated.

(And Laura, you missed out the bit where we both started a Sutil appreciation thread within 1 minute of each other!)

I hope he becomes LEwis' friend again.

KateLM wrote:And with that, the thread is inaugurated.

And duly added to the Official Official Threads Thread

Hope you don't double jinx him, can see him going full Oscar-pistorius style

I had no internet access for a few weeks, but this morning for some reason I thought of Sutil and that he deserves another chance (perhaps my brain was still about F1 as I watched 2009 season review yesterday)......my internet was shortly fixed, I browse on to f1 news.... and lo and behold

UnlikeUday wrote:...Will be rotting for Sutil as always!

Rotting? Hope that doesn't jinx it!

UnlikeUday wrote:

Laura23 wrote:As some of you may remember once upon a time a long time ago Kate and I set up the official Adrian Sutil thread because the poor guy, ok I don't rate him that highly but he deserved a thread, didn't have a thread of his own. Shortly after we set up said thread Sutil went on a terrible run of results that led us to believe, and I'm sure Guia has some stats to back it up somewhere, that we jinxed poor Adrian.

So, the thread is back and it is back with a bang.

So pop open the champagne, plastic glasses are advised, and celebrate Sutil's return with us. (the best but about his return for me is that I get to reopen this thread I'll be honest). Let's get this thing running, not like Sutil hopefully going on past evidence, and dive in like a dolphin.

Glad that you have taken the initiative.

I've been his fan not just since he was with Force India but since then when he was with Spyker & hen Midland.

Spyker was born from Jordan ashes & that team was my favorite, not just because of it's brilliant yellow guise.

Sutil may not have scored a win or a podium, but he surely is a strong midfield driver. When he was with Force India earlier, that time Force india was only getting stronger, but not as much as 2012.

I'm 1 of the happiest in this forum, if not the happiest on Sutil's return. Still remember his great efforts to score a well deserved 9th in the WDC results in 2011. Had he not had a court case, Force India would've surely retained him, because his position in the 2011 WDC results was not something to be overlooked.

Hulk's departure was a blessing for Sutil. Will be rotting for Sutil as always!

Cheers Sutil! Not being sarcastic.

When I heard the news I was almost as pleased for you as I was for him!

mikeyg123 wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:

Laura23 wrote:As some of you may remember once upon a time a long time ago Kate and I set up the official Adrian Sutil thread because the poor guy, ok I don't rate him that highly but he deserved a thread, didn't have a thread of his own. Shortly after we set up said thread Sutil went on a terrible run of results that led us to believe, and I'm sure Guia has some stats to back it up somewhere, that we jinxed poor Adrian.

So, the thread is back and it is back with a bang.

So pop open the champagne, plastic glasses are advised, and celebrate Sutil's return with us. (the best but about his return for me is that I get to reopen this thread I'll be honest). Let's get this thing running, not like Sutil hopefully going on past evidence, and dive in like a dolphin.

Glad that you have taken the initiative.

I've been his fan not just since he was with Force India but since then when he was with Spyker & hen Midland.

Spyker was born from Jordan ashes & that team was my favorite, not just because of it's brilliant yellow guise.

Sutil may not have scored a win or a podium, but he surely is a strong midfield driver. When he was with Force India earlier, that time Force india was only getting stronger, but not as much as 2012.

I'm 1 of the happiest in this forum, if not the happiest on Sutil's return. Still remember his great efforts to score a well deserved 9th in the WDC results in 2011. Had he not had a court case, Force India would've surely retained him, because his position in the 2011 WDC results was not something to be overlooked.

Hulk's departure was a blessing for Sutil. Will be rotting for Sutil as always!

Cheers Sutil! Not being sarcastic.

When I heard the news I was almost as pleased for you as I was for him!

When he took part in testing last week, his time in the 1:22's, which was just 1.002 secs off the 1st placed timing & his detailed feedback, were 1 of the main reasons to justify the faith of Force India management in him.

His long standing rapport with the team finally paid off. Am sure he will be stronger this year, if 2nd half of 2011 is something to go by.

He has posted a time of 1:24:215, which places him at No 1 position in the timings. He has definitely found his groove soon & justifying the faith that Force India have in him.

Happy to see Sutil at No 1 position. So what if it's just practice.

does anyone know what actually happened in that bar? did he try to glass someone or was it a genuine mistake?

Good for the OPs to start a thread on a non-top-team driver. Hope Sutil does well, but the opposition is tough and he has had time off, which will not help.

SWAN wrote:does anyone know what actually happened in that bar? did he try to glass someone or was it a genuine mistake?

Lets not start that topic here again or this thread too will be locked because of silly debates. People shouldnt get judgemental about what drivers do off the track Just my opinion. Anyways he was charged, episodes over, he back to race, lets get over it. Simples

Race2win wrote:

SWAN wrote:does anyone know what actually happened in that bar? did he try to glass someone or was it a genuine mistake?

Lets not start that topic here again or this thread too will be locked because of silly debates. People shouldnt get judgemental about what drivers do off the track Just my opinion. Anyways he was charged, episodes over, he back to race, lets get over it. Simples

is there a thread which uncovers any of it or reports?

SWAN wrote:

Race2win wrote:

SWAN wrote:does anyone know what actually happened in that bar? did he try to glass someone or was it a genuine mistake?

Lets not start that topic here again or this thread too will be locked because of silly debates. People shouldnt get judgemental about what drivers do off the track Just my opinion. Anyways he was charged, episodes over, he back to race, lets get over it. Simples

is there a thread which uncovers any of it or reports?

Nope.

I sincerely hope his conviction of grievous bodily harm doesn't cause him any troubles with immigration/visas. Some countries are very strict about allowing convicted felons into their country.

raceman wrote:I sincerely hope his conviction of grievous bodily harm doesn't cause him any troubles with immigration/visas. Some countries are very strict about allowing convicted felons into their country.

I understand your concern about his visa issues that he may have when going to different race venues but do you think Force India & Sutil's manager didn't confirm about all this before Sutil came overboard?

Everything is clear. Sutil has said this many times. So we can expect no issues of him traveling to any of he race venues.

UnlikeUday wrote:

raceman wrote:I sincerely hope his conviction of grievous bodily harm doesn't cause him any troubles with immigration/visas. Some countries are very strict about allowing convicted felons into their country.

I understand your concern about his visa issues that he may have when going to different race venues but do you think Force India & Sutil's manager didn't confirm about all this before Sutil came overboard?

Everything is clear. Sutil has said this many times. So we can expect no issues of him traveling to any of he race venues.

I'm sure they've done their due diligence and I don't expect him to be flat-out denied entry into a country. What I meant was he could (and in all likelihood will) encounter annoyances like very lengthy interviews from immigration. I've witnessed and heard of more than a few immigration-nightmare stories, and these are without violent convictions.

SWAN wrote:

Race2win wrote:

SWAN wrote:does anyone know what actually happened in that bar? did he try to glass someone or was it a genuine mistake?

Lets not start that topic here again or this thread too will be locked because of silly debates. People shouldnt get judgemental about what drivers do off the track Just my opinion. Anyways he was charged, episodes over, he back to race, lets get over it. Simples

is there a thread which uncovers any of it or reports?

Google is your friend: http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/ ... man-court/

Apparently he was captured on CCTV. I wonder if that video will ever surface online.

SWAN wrote:does anyone know what actually happened in that bar? did he try to glass someone or was it a genuine mistake?

The court established that it is proven beyond reasonable doubt that he deliberately broke the glass in order to obtain a weapon and then deliberately cut Lux in order to give him severe injuries.
He received 18 months jail, suspended for probation.

For German law, this is a quite strong sentence for a first-time offender. The court gave two reasons: first, the strong evidence against Sutil, and second, the lack of insight and sorrow on his part.

Is anyone a lawyer from Germany? I haven't been successful in Googling German law (though I did find an interesting tidbit: circumcision of a child in Germany is considered grievous bodily harm).

At least under English law, you do not need to intentionally cause GBH to be convicted of GBH. Recklessness and actual harm is enough. I don't know where I can find the court rulings but Sutil's defense of "I only meant to spill my drink on him and not cut his neck" wouldn't exclude a ruling of GBH - meaning in simple terms, the court can agree with Sutil completely and still convict him of GBH.

And the forum is complete again

united2010 wrote:And the forum is complete again

Especially since it enticed you to come back!

raceman wrote:

SWAN wrote:

Race2win wrote:

SWAN wrote:does anyone know what actually happened in that bar? did he try to glass someone or was it a genuine mistake?

Lets not start that topic here again or this thread too will be locked because of silly debates. People shouldnt get judgemental about what drivers do off the track Just my opinion. Anyways he was charged, episodes over, he back to race, lets get over it. Simples

is there a thread which uncovers any of it or reports?

Google is your friend: http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/ ... man-court/

Apparently he was captured on CCTV. I wonder if that video will ever surface online.

Part of CCTV footage did leak online but was quickly buried.
Then there was some footage of aftermath with the CCTV from the hallway / passageway. having zero luck finding the link anymore on google.

funkymonkey wrote:

raceman wrote:

SWAN wrote:

Race2win wrote:

SWAN wrote:does anyone know what actually happened in that bar? did he try to glass someone or was it a genuine mistake?

Lets not start that topic here again or this thread too will be locked because of silly debates. People shouldnt get judgemental about what drivers do off the track Just my opinion. Anyways he was charged, episodes over, he back to race, lets get over it. Simples

is there a thread which uncovers any of it or reports?

Google is your friend: http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/ ... man-court/

Apparently he was captured on CCTV. I wonder if that video will ever surface online.

Part of CCTV footage did leak online but was quickly buried.
Then there was some footage of aftermath with the CCTV from the hallway / passageway. having zero luck finding the link anymore on google.

Does it matter any more?

He has got a 2nd chance & that chance will last for 1 year. till the end of 2013 season.

Talking about the brawl still is not worth any discussion guys. May be for the curious ones but it's the past. No doubt, Sutil's image has been dented due to all this but if he were to score some good finishes or even podiums, no one would be concerned about his 'Lux' affair.

raceman wrote:

SWAN wrote:

Race2win wrote:

SWAN wrote:does anyone know what actually happened in that bar? did he try to glass someone or was it a genuine mistake?

Lets not start that topic here again or this thread too will be locked because of silly debates. People shouldnt get judgemental about what drivers do off the track Just my opinion. Anyways he was charged, episodes over, he back to race, lets get over it. Simples

is there a thread which uncovers any of it or reports?

Google is your friend: http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/ ... man-court/

Apparently he was captured on CCTV. I wonder if that video will ever surface online.

But but but, this link misses out the 'Planet F1 version of events' where Adrian pins Lux to the floor smashing the glass on the edge of a table and violently and repeatedly stabbing him in the neck, then texting a photo to Lux's mother to add insult to injury.


Interestingly, and seriously, it also states that Lewis was sat next to Adrian, which goes against the 'Lewis wasn't even there why should he have given evidence' excuse that some people have been spouting.
Because he was sat next to Adrian and Lux when it happened thats why guys!


Anyway, glad he's back in F1. I always thought he was an alright driver. If DiResta has a drive theres no reason why Adrian shouldn't have one.

raceman wrote:Is anyone a lawyer from Germany? I haven't been successful in Googling German law (though I did find an interesting tidbit: circumcision of a child in Germany is considered grievous bodily harm).

At least under English law, you do not need to intentionally cause GBH to be convicted of GBH. Recklessness and actual harm is enough. I don't know where I can find the court rulings but Sutil's defense of "I only meant to spill my drink on him and not cut his neck" wouldn't exclude a ruling of GBH - meaning in simple terms, the court can agree with Sutil completely and still convict him of GBH.

True. But then the sentence would be significantly more lenient. In Germany, first time offenders injuring people in a brawl with some kind of weapon and without being in a self-defense situation usually receive something like suspended 6 months (plus monetary fine) at maximum.

In Sutil's case, the court explicitly ruled that he deliberately cut the glass in order to injure his opponent (and subsequently doing this) without being in a self-defense situation. That was what the evidence told the court.
So, it is intent but not "spontaneous intent" and not planned ahead of the situation (which would make it even worse).

The breaking news is that he may have to sit out of the Chinese and US GPs due to visa problems

Well, he officially has a criminal record which indeed may prevent ordinary citizens from getting certain visa. However, I am very sure that in his case the visa problems will be solved in time for the races. Perhaps he gets some conditions and obligations but due to being part of a famous world championship I am sure that he will get his visa.

Museli wrote:The breaking news is that he may have to sit out of the Chinese and US GPs due to visa problems

Breaking news where?

He's already said there are no issues with him getting access to countries. Why would he lie? I'm sure his people and Force India's have done their checks and got him a visa for each race.

It actually would make sense that its taken so long to announce the second driver because the process of getting a visa when you have to declare a conviction takes longer than regular applications.
Rarely do people get turned down. Its not like he's a repeat offender and danger to the community.

Laura23 wrote:

united2010 wrote:And the forum is complete again

Especially since it enticed you to come back!

I couldn't miss out on Kate's fangirling when Sutil takes that comeback podium in Melbourne

Connor, I resented being painted as a Sutil groupie just because I didn't dislike him back then, and I still resent it now!

KateLM wrote:Connor, I resented being painted as a Sutil groupie just because I didn't dislike him back then, and I still resent it now!

Sorry, dragged it out for too long now...

As for the man himself, well he might not be a world champion in waiting but he did have his flashes and certainly was running well at the end of 2011. Lets remember that Force India weren't always a midfield runner. A safe choice but a good one from the team although it remains to be seen whether they've let a talent get away in Bianchi