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ashley313 wrote:Do you not understand that deciding where to stop an offer is as much a decision as choosing not to accept it?

it does not change the fact, that the person who turns down the offer, makes the decission.
How do we know if Hamilton would have turned down any offer, because he made already the decission to leave?
Whom should we believe?
Hamilton who says he left, because he wants to move on, experience something new, grow & develop, leave the home where he was since he is a child?
Or Dennis who wants to keep a certain image.

Maybe the decission had absolutely nothing to do with McLarens offers.

OB1UKAB wrote:

ashley313 wrote:Sounds like a man who is ready to see how his new, younger, cheaper, less dramatic wife is going to perform rather than get hung up on the ol' bitch with huge demands and few benefits.


:eeps:

You and Laura23 need to get yourselves down to spec savers if you can't see Ron has a huge case of sour grapes.

McLaren offered Lewis more money to stay than what merc offered. Ron even said at one race that drivers keeping their trophies and PR duties was negotiable. But Lewis still left!

i know he said something about everything can be negotiated when asked about that,this is just sour grapes from Ron,there is nothing new here as everyone already knows he can get emotional.

Haribo wrote:

ashley313 wrote:Do you not understand that deciding where to stop an offer is as much a decision as choosing not to accept it?

it does not change the fact, that the person who turns down the offer, makes the decission.
How do we know if Hamilton would have turned down any offer, because he made already the decission to leave?
Whom should we believe?
Hamilton who says he left, because he wants to move on, experience something new, grow & develop, leave the home where he was since he is a child?
Or Dennis who wants to keep a certain image.

Maybe the decission had absolutely nothing to do with McLarens offers.

So if McLaren turned down Lewis' offer does that mean they made the decision

Haribo wrote:

ashley313 wrote:Obviously he wanted to leave, because he did. Obviously McLaren didn't want him at all costs, because they let him leave. He clearly made demands, or there would be no negotiating in the first place, and McLaren chose not to meet them. That signals a mutual decision - neither wanted what the other offered, so they parted ways. Why should either be bitter about it?

How can you hold someone who does not really want to stay?
Ron sounds bitter, because he brought it up,that it was not Lewis decission.
He could have said, "He chose to leave, we wish him well, and look foreward to 2013 bla bla bla..."
The usual stuff, but with his comment he looks like a sore loser, not like someone who does not care to much, about his departure, because they did not try to keep him.
It hurts his pride Lewis chose to leave, him the big boss of McLaren. "Nobody leaves him, if he does not want it"

He chose to leave because they weren't willing to meet his demands. If he were leaving no matter what, why would he have negotiated? He was willing to stay if they made him the right offer. They chose not to make it. Both sides made decisions. If Lewis leaving were too much for ol Ron's pride he would have just offered him whatever he wanted, and he'd still be there, and neither Lewis nor McLaren would likely have an FIA trophy to fight over at the end of the season.

Instead, they both made the right decision for themselves and McLaren finally has a clear team leader, less drama, and more vast sponsorship opportunities with their promising young Mexican, and Lewis has a chance to build a team around himself rather than being injected into one, and a chance to see if he has more success with a team that does things differently than the one he's always been in, which hasn't really enabled him to win another title. Its a win win for everyone right now, why should either side be bitter?

SilverstoneRegular wrote:

Haribo wrote:

SilverstoneRegular wrote:

Johnston wrote:

Haribo wrote: Well the first negotiations with Mercedes have been at Dezember 2011! ( confirmed from Haug, Fry & Brawn)
Why should Lewis negotiated with them if he did not want to leave McLaren.
For me it looked like mercedes & Lewis waited for Schumachers decission to stay or to leave
So Hamilton & his management tried to negotiate the impossible at McLaren and played for time. If Schumacher had stayed at Mercedes, they would have turned down some of the dealbreakers and came to an agreement.

Schui never made a decision. It was made for him.

So if Merc and Lewis joining up was dependant on Schumi leaving and Schumi didn't make a decision meanwhile McLaren signed Perez this means Lewis was forced out?!

Scumacher let an unltimatum run out. Therefore Mercedes chose to replace him, and signed Lewis

No actual timeframe was given to Michael he was shocked about the Lewis deal so shocked he didn't even have time to announce his retirement!

No he wasn't he was informed about the negotiations, he was informed about the decission and he supported it
Mercedes kept him informed and involved in anything!
He even said he would have done the same, and told them to sign Hamilton if they can.

gotta say though judging by how Mclaren can't seem to stop taking digs at Lewis and Lewis just ignoring it like it isn't happening...it seems clear to me which party has moved on and which party wanted out.

nike2die4 wrote:gotta say though judging by how Mclaren can't seem to stop taking digs at Lewis and Lewis just ignoring it like it isn't happening...it seems clear to me which party has moved on and which party wanted out.

Well if the jorunos keep asking the questions it will keep getting talked about.

As for moving on. They let him work with Merc before his contract was up.

You should check Lewis Twitter and facebook too Doesn't seem too keen to cut the McLaren ties

ashley313 wrote:

Haribo wrote:

ashley313 wrote:Obviously he wanted to leave, because he did. Obviously McLaren didn't want him at all costs, because they let him leave. He clearly made demands, or there would be no negotiating in the first place, and McLaren chose not to meet them. That signals a mutual decision - neither wanted what the other offered, so they parted ways. Why should either be bitter about it?

How can you hold someone who does not really want to stay?
Ron sounds bitter, because he brought it up,that it was not Lewis decission.
He could have said, "He chose to leave, we wish him well, and look foreward to 2013 bla bla bla..."
The usual stuff, but with his comment he looks like a sore loser, not like someone who does not care to much, about his departure, because they did not try to keep him.
It hurts his pride Lewis chose to leave, him the big boss of McLaren. "Nobody leaves him, if he does not want it"

He chose to leave because they weren't willing to meet his demands. If he were leaving no matter what, why would he have negotiated? He was willing to stay if they made him the right offer. They chose not to make it. Both sides made decisions. If Lewis leaving were too much for ol Ron's pride he would have just offered him whatever he wanted, and he'd still be there, and neither Lewis nor McLaren would likely have an FIA trophy to fight over at the end of the season.

Instead, they both made the right decision for themselves and McLaren finally has a clear team leader, less drama, and more vast sponsorship opportunities with their promising young Mexican, and Lewis has a chance to build a team around himself rather than being injected into one, and a chance to see if he has more success with a team that does things differently than the one he's always been in, which hasn't really enabled him to win another title. Its a win win for everyone right now, why should either side be bitter?

He chose to leave, because he wanted to leave. He just was not sure about it, until after the race at Singapore. Hamilton himself said it he swung like a pendulum, to stay ot to leave for quite some time.
No offer would have changed his mind .Is this so difficult to understand?

Johnston wrote:

nike2die4 wrote:gotta say though judging by how Mclaren can't seem to stop taking digs at Lewis and Lewis just ignoring it like it isn't happening...it seems clear to me which party has moved on and which party wanted out.

Well if the jorunos keep asking the questions it will keep getting talked about.

As for moving on. They let him work with Merc before his contract was up.

You should check Lewis Twitter and facebook too Doesn't seem too keen to cut the McLaren ties

Maybe because he has not been there since quite some time ( twitter & facebook)
The messages and pictures come from Instagramm

I haven't heard or read any quotes from Lewis that say no offer would have changed his mind. Just ones that said his management was handling negotiations. If you're negotiating, you haven't decided to leave at all costs.

Johnston wrote:

Haribo wrote:

ashley313 wrote:Do you not understand that deciding where to stop an offer is as much a decision as choosing not to accept it?

it does not change the fact, that the person who turns down the offer, makes the decission.
How do we know if Hamilton would have turned down any offer, because he made already the decission to leave?
Whom should we believe?
Hamilton who says he left, because he wants to move on, experience something new, grow & develop, leave the home where he was since he is a child?
Or Dennis who wants to keep a certain image.

Maybe the decission had absolutely nothing to do with McLarens offers.

So if McLaren turned down Lewis' offer does that mean they made the decision

McLaren reportedly upped its financial offer in the final week of negotiations and Whitmarsh believes the terms were higher than any other contract in F1.

"I think Lewis is a top-flight driver and we didn't underestimate his attractiveness to others in Formula One," he told the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes phone-in. "I think we knew that Lewis would be in demand and that's why we made him an offer.

"The offer that we made was higher, I believe, than any other driver in Formula One is currently receiving or will receive next year.


Didn't know Whitmarsh was Lewis manager, who made the offer for Lewis, not to him

ashley313 wrote:I haven't heard or read any quotes from Lewis that say no offer would have changed his mind. Just ones that said his management was handling negotiations. If you're negotiating, you haven't decided to leave at all costs.

It was a little bit like a pendulum because one moment I would think, 'Let's go for it', the next I would think 'I'm going to stay'. That's why I took my time; because I wanted to make sure I stuck with one of [those feelings]."

"It [the DNF] made no difference. I had kind of already had the feeling a few days before but it stuck with me and this time I didn't have any swinging back. Then I got to Thailand and it was incredibly peaceful and I just sat by the pool and thought for several hours. It was important to do it on my terms. ...

Looks like he based his decission on his feelings rather than the offer , From McL or Merc.

[

i]"I'd been thinking for quite some time about what I wanted to do with my future, where I want to go, It's easy staying in the same place, but going somewhere else and taking on a new challenge is sometimes maybe even more exciting." [/i]
I wasn't going to be pushed and rushed, although there was a lot of pressure. Martin [Whitmarsh, McLaren team principal] had been asking me when I was going to do a deal since China last year. I had a couple of deadlines, I didn't meet any one of them. It was really, really tough but once I made the decision I was so much more relaxed."

"I've had such a great career with McLaren. I signed for McLaren when I was 13 and have had such an incredible journey with them. But in the end I had two offers on the table which were very similar but one was a lot more exciting. It's just a challenge. I could stay in the great car that I have, which I've worked really hard to help develop with the team, or go to a car that's not so well developed and help it.

Even Whitmarsh said , he thinks Lewis made the decission out of emotions

Haribo wrote:

Johnston wrote:

Haribo wrote:

ashley313 wrote:Do you not understand that deciding where to stop an offer is as much a decision as choosing not to accept it?

it does not change the fact, that the person who turns down the offer, makes the decission.
How do we know if Hamilton would have turned down any offer, because he made already the decission to leave?
Whom should we believe?
Hamilton who says he left, because he wants to move on, experience something new, grow & develop, leave the home where he was since he is a child?
Or Dennis who wants to keep a certain image.

Maybe the decission had absolutely nothing to do with McLarens offers.

So if McLaren turned down Lewis' offer does that mean they made the decision

McLaren reportedly upped its financial offer in the final week of negotiations and Whitmarsh believes the terms were higher than any other contract in F1.

"I think Lewis is a top-flight driver and we didn't underestimate his attractiveness to others in Formula One," he told the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes phone-in. "I think we knew that Lewis would be in demand and that's why we made him an offer.

"The offer that we made was higher, I believe, than any other driver in Formula One is currently receiving or will receive next year.


Didn't know Whitmarsh was Lewis manager, who made the offer for Lewis, not to him

I've already posted the quote.

You missed out the "Other than himself" .

Don't forget not all the offers and demands are one sided. Lewis' team wouldn't have sat there going "Nope not enough" They would have been making their own offers and demands saying stuff like "We want Peanut M&Ms but remove the blue ones" .

McLaren basically said We will give you the "M&Ms but if you we ain't removing the blue ones." Turning down his offer to drive for M&Ms as long as the blue ones were taken out.

The speed with which they signed Sergio means negotiations must have been going on for some time so it appear that Lewis's exit was engineered.
I have seen it a number of time where a person's position was made untenable even though the people behind it would say they had done everything they could to make them stay.
I have also seen people leave positions no matter what effort was put into keeping them, usually because they felt undervalued.

Johnston wrote:

nike2die4 wrote:gotta say though judging by how Mclaren can't seem to stop taking digs at Lewis and Lewis just ignoring it like it isn't happening...it seems clear to me which party has moved on and which party wanted out.

Well if the jorunos keep asking the questions it will keep getting talked about.

As for moving on. They let him work with Merc before his contract was up.

You should check Lewis Twitter and facebook too Doesn't seem too keen to cut the McLaren ties

the questions get asked to Lewis too,he just doesn't try to put a negative spin on it all the time.

ob1kenobi.23 wrote:The speed with which they signed Sergio means negotiations must have been going on for some time so it appear that Lewis's exit was engineered.
I have seen it a number of time where a person's position was made untenable even though the people behind it would say they had done everything they could to make them stay.
I have also seen people leave positions no matter what effort was put into keeping them, usually because they felt undervalued.

Lewis first met with Mercedes in 2011 dec,am sure they must have known it and they would be silly to put all their eggs in one basket.

ashley313 wrote:I haven't heard or read any quotes from Lewis that say no offer would have changed his mind. Just ones that said his management was handling negotiations. If you're negotiating, you haven't decided to leave at all costs.

you negotiate until you have an alternative

Haribo wrote:

ashley313 wrote:I haven't heard or read any quotes from Lewis that say no offer would have changed his mind. Just ones that said his management was handling negotiations. If you're negotiating, you haven't decided to leave at all costs.

you negotiate until you have an alternative

He had an alternative from 6 months prior.

Its Ron Dennis, he even has a name for his style of rambling "Ronspeak".

What was his comments after Lewis won in Monza and it was mentioned the team had won 1 title in 13 years?

"We are not here racing to win WDC/WCC!?" talk about discredit yourself due to your own pride and failure to admit the lack of recent success.

ob1kenobi.23 wrote:The speed with which they signed Sergio means negotiations must have been going on for some time so it appear that Lewis's exit was engineered.
I have seen it a number of time where a person's position was made untenable even though the people behind it would say they had done everything they could to make them stay.
I have also seen people leave positions no matter what effort was put into keeping them, usually because they felt undervalued.

I know people including myself, who turned down a better offer, to work for less money and a worse position, just because they wanted to go somewhere else (and help to develop something new)
I was not forced out or undervalued, both companies really wanted me. I left the company where I learned and was nearly a part of the family, they made me a very good offer better than the others, but I left.
There are people out there with visions, who want to try something new, to make experiences, even if it's a risk

I believe Hamilton when he says he wants to go & develop, as driver and as person. He wants to learn to work with different people, to improve his skills, to leave the nest.

Haribo wrote:

ob1kenobi.23 wrote:The speed with which they signed Sergio means negotiations must have been going on for some time so it appear that Lewis's exit was engineered.
I have seen it a number of time where a person's position was made untenable even though the people behind it would say they had done everything they could to make them stay.
I have also seen people leave positions no matter what effort was put into keeping them, usually because they felt undervalued.

I know people including myself, who turned down a better offer, to work for less money and a worse position, just because they wanted to go somewhere else (and help to develop something new)
I was not forced out or undervalued, both companies really wanted me. I left the company where I learned and was nearly a part of the family, they made me a very good offer better than the others, but I left.
There are people out there with visions, who want to try something new, to make experiences, even if it's a risk

I believe Hamilton when he says he wants to go & develop, as driver and as person. He wants to learn to work with different people, to improve his skills, to leave the nest.

Wow it's quite incredible how your situation mirrors your idols!

Haribo wrote:

ashley313 wrote:I haven't heard or read any quotes from Lewis that say no offer would have changed his mind. Just ones that said his management was handling negotiations. If you're negotiating, you haven't decided to leave at all costs.

It was a little bit like a pendulum because one moment I would think, 'Let's go for it', the next I would think 'I'm going to stay'. That's why I took my time; because I wanted to make sure I stuck with one of [those feelings]."

"It [the DNF] made no difference. I had kind of already had the feeling a few days before but it stuck with me and this time I didn't have any swinging back. Then I got to Thailand and it was incredibly peaceful and I just sat by the pool and thought for several hours. It was important to do it on my terms. ...

Looks like he based his decission on his feelings rather than the offer , From McL or Merc.

Looks like he weighed his options and decided it was more worth it to him to leave than to stay. Like we've all said 100x now. Because what McLaren offered wasn't enough. McLaren had the option to offer whatever was necessary to keep him, they passed. Two decisions.

If you put a limit on what you're willing to give up it means you accept you might not get what you want, so there's no reason to be bitter about it.

As for Ron still talking about it and Lewis supposedly putting a more positive spin on things - Ron is asked the questions by journalists. How many press engagements has Lewis done since wrapping up his obligations at McLaren? None that I know of.

SilverstoneRegular wrote:

Haribo wrote:

ob1kenobi.23 wrote:The speed with which they signed Sergio means negotiations must have been going on for some time so it appear that Lewis's exit was engineered.
I have seen it a number of time where a person's position was made untenable even though the people behind it would say they had done everything they could to make them stay.
I have also seen people leave positions no matter what effort was put into keeping them, usually because they felt undervalued.

I know people including myself, who turned down a better offer, to work for less money and a worse position, just because they wanted to go somewhere else (and help to develop something new)
I was not forced out or undervalued, both companies really wanted me. I left the company where I learned and was nearly a part of the family, they made me a very good offer better than the others, but I left.
There are people out there with visions, who want to try something new, to make experiences, even if it's a risk

I believe Hamilton when he says he wants to go & develop, as driver and as person. He wants to learn to work with different people, to improve his skills, to leave the nest.

Wow it's quite incredible how your situation mirrors your idols!

No, his situation mirrors mine
But, yes there are a lot of similarties, even if it's a complete different buisness.
should I tell you how my journey continued? There could be some further similarties. Even I would not like it to be like this similar.

Haribo wrote:

SilverstoneRegular wrote:

Haribo wrote:

ob1kenobi.23 wrote:The speed with which they signed Sergio means negotiations must have been going on for some time so it appear that Lewis's exit was engineered.
I have seen it a number of time where a person's position was made untenable even though the people behind it would say they had done everything they could to make them stay.
I have also seen people leave positions no matter what effort was put into keeping them, usually because they felt undervalued.

I know people including myself, who turned down a better offer, to work for less money and a worse position, just because they wanted to go somewhere else (and help to develop something new)
I was not forced out or undervalued, both companies really wanted me. I left the company where I learned and was nearly a part of the family, they made me a very good offer better than the others, but I left.
There are people out there with visions, who want to try something new, to make experiences, even if it's a risk

I believe Hamilton when he says he wants to go & develop, as driver and as person. He wants to learn to work with different people, to improve his skills, to leave the nest.

Wow it's quite incredible how your situation mirrors your idols!

No, his situation mirrors mine
But, yes there are a lot of similarties, even if it's a complete different buisness.
should I tell you how my journey continued? There could be some further similarties. Even I would not like it to be like this similar.

No, please spare me

ashley313 wrote:

Haribo wrote:

ashley313 wrote:I haven't heard or read any quotes from Lewis that say no offer would have changed his mind. Just ones that said his management was handling negotiations. If you're negotiating, you haven't decided to leave at all costs.

It was a little bit like a pendulum because one moment I would think, 'Let's go for it', the next I would think 'I'm going to stay'. That's why I took my time; because I wanted to make sure I stuck with one of [those feelings]."

"It [the DNF] made no difference. I had kind of already had the feeling a few days before but it stuck with me and this time I didn't have any swinging back. Then I got to Thailand and it was incredibly peaceful and I just sat by the pool and thought for several hours. It was important to do it on my terms. ...

Looks like he based his decission on his feelings rather than the offer , From McL or Merc.

Looks like he weighed his options and decided it was more worth it to him to leave than to stay. Like we've all said 100x now. Because what McLaren offered wasn't enough. McLaren had the option to offer whatever was necessary to keep him, they passed. Two decisions.

If you put a limit on what you're willing to give up it means you accept you might not get what you want, so there's no reason to be bitter about it.

As for Ron still talking about it and Lewis supposedly putting a more positive spin on things - Ron is asked the questions by journalists. How many press engagements has Lewis done since wrapping up his obligations at McLaren? None that I know of.

The question is what did Lewis want. Something he obviously thinks he can get it at Mercedes.
IMO nothing material.
For me RD sounds bitter about Lewis decission, not to stay.

It's simply not Hamiltons way to say anything negative about McL. Even after they ruined some of his races, there was not one single word. The DNfs he stayed calm & quiet.
Ron could have given an answer like "We are looking foreward to next year, bla bla", and not mention it at all. but it seems somwhow important to him. The fact he wants to "correct" the opinion that Hamilton left McLaren, shows how much it still bothers him.
Hamilton gave an interview to some Italian media this days, but there was no single word about McLaren, maybe he was not asked.

SilverstoneRegular wrote:

Haribo wrote:

SilverstoneRegular wrote:

Haribo wrote:

ob1kenobi.23 wrote:The speed with which they signed Sergio means negotiations must have been going on for some time so it appear that Lewis's exit was engineered.
I have seen it a number of time where a person's position was made untenable even though the people behind it would say they had done everything they could to make them stay.
I have also seen people leave positions no matter what effort was put into keeping them, usually because they felt undervalued.

I know people including myself, who turned down a better offer, to work for less money and a worse position, just because they wanted to go somewhere else (and help to develop something new)
I was not forced out or undervalued, both companies really wanted me. I left the company where I learned and was nearly a part of the family, they made me a very good offer better than the others, but I left.
There are people out there with visions, who want to try something new, to make experiences, even if it's a risk

I believe Hamilton when he says he wants to go & develop, as driver and as person. He wants to learn to work with different people, to improve his skills, to leave the nest.

Wow it's quite incredible how your situation mirrors your idols!

No, his situation mirrors mine
But, yes there are a lot of similarties, even if it's a complete different buisness.
should I tell you how my journey continued? There could be some further similarties. Even I would not like it to be like this similar.

No, please spare me

Haha you had the chance to know about the future .

ashley313 wrote:Instead, they both made the right decision for themselves and McLaren finally has a clear team leader, less drama... Its a win win for everyone right now, why should either side be bitter?

I enjoy your positivity, but I think it's perhaps a little early to make the above statements.

Please take into consideration though, that Ron Dennis's bottom lip was all over the show during the interview and tears could be seen streaming down his face.

When the tears come streaming down your face
When you lose something you can't replace
When you love someone but it goes to waste
Could it be worse?

Lights will guide you home
And ignite your bones
And Perez will try to fix you

MclarenBullet wrote:Please take into consideration though, that Ron Dennis's bottom lip was all over the show during the interview and tears could be seen streaming down his face.

When the tears come streaming down your face
When you lose something you can't replace
When you love someone but it goes to waste
Could it be worse?

Lights will guide you home
And ignite your bones
And Perez will try to fix you

MEANWHILE .. Whilst Super Villain Ron is busy hatching his master plan to dominate the world of technologies from automotive to pharmaceutical , healthcare , defence, air traffic , AND developing performance enhancing data systems to gain optimum performance from ELITE athletes and their equipment .
This business guru, perfectionist , insane attention to detail and a man of vision
Decides its best for Mclaren F1 division to force out their protege Lewis Hamilton one of the top three, in which ever order you wish to put it , and fastest racer in F1 today, in his prime and replace him with....Perez .
( unless they wish to use him as an experiment ) I think not .


I believe Lewis has a three year contract with Mercedes , and I find Ron's comment about the current economic situation and plans he has put in place for the future interesting.

"but it doesn't actually have an impact on a plan that will unfold in three years time , he says the economy will come back and we want to be ready to take advantage of that "

An altogether strange article from Ron he's obviously been extremely busy, with the strains and pressures of expanding into new exciting areas of business then being blindsided by the economy to boot, I think he's angrier than he's making out , his favourite toy was snatched from under his nose whilst he was distracted with another one , I don't think we've heard the end of this yet .

IN THE NEXT ISSUE Arch-villain ROSS BRAWN....

I think... somethings are better left unsaid.

ashley313 wrote:Sounds like a man who is ready to see how his new, younger, cheaper, less dramatic wife is going to perform rather than get hung up on the ol' bitch with huge demands and few benefits.


:eeps:

Where does Button fit in this, is he his bit on the side?

SilverstoneRegular wrote:Obviously some will simply not believe that whoever is no longer in partnership with Lewis could have brought about this situation by choice but rather it all be Lewis's choice

If Lewis never wanted to stay why was he making noises about wanting to keep trophies as part of a new deal? And the admission by Ron about the amount of money on offer is lower than Lewis expected due to the current economical climate?

I recently read that in 2011 Hamilton's new management team were talking in terms of a new improved contract for Hamilton at McLaren especially i guess as it was around that time that Button had just renewed his own contract with an improved deal. So it must have been a bit of a surprise for both them and Hamilton that when they went into negotiations with McLaren last year that Hamilton was offered a pay cut, even less than Button's current deal i believe?

I'm not sure about the time line here regarding Hamilton's management approaching Red Bull, but certainly when Red Bull resigned Webber for another year McLaren thought they had Hamilton by the short and curlies. After that of course contact was made with Mercedes and it was only after McLaren realised how serious Hamilton was considering leaving for Mercedes that they increased their pay offer but i guess not to the level that Hamilton wanted.

So i guess that McLaren were not prepared to keep Hamilton at any cost so Hamilton chose to leave, i know Hamilton's made a lot about the new challenge at Mercedes but i can't help feeling that McLaren's blase approach to his new pay deal didn't help.

Johnston wrote:

Haribo wrote: Well the first negotiations with Mercedes have been at Dezember 2011! ( confirmed from Haug, Fry & Brawn)
Why should Lewis negotiated with them if he did not want to leave McLaren.
For me it looked like mercedes & Lewis waited for Schumachers decission to stay or to leave
So Hamilton & his management tried to negotiate the impossible at McLaren and played for time. If Schumacher had stayed at Mercedes, they would have turned down some of the dealbreakers and came to an agreement.

Schui never made a decision. It was made for him.

Yes he dallied too much over signing a new contact so Mercedes signed Hamilton

SilverstoneRegular wrote:

Johnston wrote:

Haribo wrote: Well the first negotiations with Mercedes have been at Dezember 2011! ( confirmed from Haug, Fry & Brawn)
Why should Lewis negotiated with them if he did not want to leave McLaren.
For me it looked like mercedes & Lewis waited for Schumachers decission to stay or to leave
So Hamilton & his management tried to negotiate the impossible at McLaren and played for time. If Schumacher had stayed at Mercedes, they would have turned down some of the dealbreakers and came to an agreement.

Schui never made a decision. It was made for him.

So if Merc and Lewis joining up was dependant on Schumi leaving and Schumi didn't make a decision meanwhile McLaren signed Perez this means Lewis was forced out?!

No it was dependent on Schumacher signing a new contract but he dallied too much so the decision was made for him, they couldn't wait too long otherwise Hamilton would have resigned for McLaren

ashley313 wrote:If he were leaving no matter what, why would he have negotiated?

I guess you could argue that, even if he knew he was definitely leaving, it would be totally beneficial to the Hamilton camp to get the best possible deal on the table at McLaren to enable the negotiation of an even better deal at Merc.

fieldstvl wrote:

ashley313 wrote:If he were leaving no matter what, why would he have negotiated?

I guess you could argue that, even if he knew he was definitely leaving, it would be totally beneficial to the Hamilton camp to get the best possible deal on the table at McLaren to enable the negotiation of an even better deal at Merc.

Wouldn't a big factor in this be Hamilton being able to have his own personal sponsors at Mercedes, many of the top sports stars earn far more money in sponsorship deals then actual wages/prize money

fieldstvl wrote:

ashley313 wrote:If he were leaving no matter what, why would he have negotiated?

I guess you could argue that, even if he knew he was definitely leaving, it would be totally beneficial to the Hamilton camp to get the best possible deal on the table at McLaren to enable the negotiation of an even better deal at Merc.

If it wasn't about money why use McLaren as leverage to get more out of Merc

Johnston wrote:

fieldstvl wrote:

ashley313 wrote:If he were leaving no matter what, why would he have negotiated?

I guess you could argue that, even if he knew he was definitely leaving, it would be totally beneficial to the Hamilton camp to get the best possible deal on the table at McLaren to enable the negotiation of an even better deal at Merc.

If it wasn't about money why use McLaren as leverage to get more out of Merc

Ahh, yeah, not about money. I forgot that bit

pokerman wrote:

fieldstvl wrote:

ashley313 wrote:If he were leaving no matter what, why would he have negotiated?

I guess you could argue that, even if he knew he was definitely leaving, it would be totally beneficial to the Hamilton camp to get the best possible deal on the table at McLaren to enable the negotiation of an even better deal at Merc.

Wouldn't a big factor in this be Hamilton being able to have his own personal sponsors at Mercedes, many of the top sports stars earn far more money in sponsorship deals then actual wages/prize money

Well, obviously I haven't really got a clue what was being negotiated, but if I had to guess I'd say that it could involve the things you've mentioned about personal sponsorship, etc, plus as big a salary as was possible, plus probably loads of other stuff as well.

fieldstvl wrote: Well, obviously I haven't really got a clue what was being negotiated, but if I had to guess I'd say that it could involve the things you've mentioned about personal sponsorship, etc, plus as big a salary as was possible, plus probably loads of other stuff as well.

I've already said it was about the blue M&Ms.

The man simply didn't want blue M&Ms. Ron he was was feared of a discrimination law suite by blue M&Ms.



It's their fault I tell you. Damn trouble making Blue M&Ms . Bet you Alonso and Seb have Blue M&M parties saving all the ones Lewis discards.