planetf1.com

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/sutil ... rce-india/

http://sports.ndtv.com/formula-1/news/i ... india-team

No real news there, have to wait and see. I personally cant see him getting it but also could also
seems strange to oust him saying his conviction had no influence just to bring him bck a year later

sutil my favourite driver ... hell yeAAAh

he is gonna kick di resta, maldonado ,bottas ,hulkenber m guitterezz 's donkeys and teach these amateurs how to be fast without crashing every two laps

Lets face it he shouldn't even be allowed a super licence let alone race again, force India dropped him and didn't stand by him during his case for a reason to take him back would have a detrimental effect on their image amongst fans and sponsors alike. As i said though we will soon see, has the fia allowed him to keep his licence they said they would review it in future?

potter84 wrote:Lets face it he shouldn't even be allowed a super licence let alone race again, force India dropped him and didn't stand by him during his case for a reason to take him back would have a detrimental effect on their image amongst fans and sponsors alike. As i said though we will soon see, has the fia allowed him to keep his licence they said they would review it in future?

He got away with it very likely, but only because of his wealth (Because of his F1 status/money earned there) If he was just an average person he would of been locked up for a very long time in China for his crime.

i cant see it as there is about 4 races ware he may not get by customs /borders so unless there happy for the test driver to fill in

RebellionLola wrote:he is gonna kick di resta, maldonado ,bottas ,hulkenber m guitterezz 's donkeys and teach these amateurs how to be fast without crashing every two laps

Funny in his younger days he was pretty crash and mistake prone too. How quick people forget. He got Trulli very angry about an incident he caused and ended Heidfeld's long run of finishes without retirement.

I hope not. Due to his court sentence and subsequent visa problems in some countries it's unlikely that any of the teams that still have vacant seats would hire him as a race driver, unless if they have another driver ready to pay for driving in the races in those countries that Sutil can't access. Now what are the free seats? Lotus, Caterham, FI?

Sutil was always Mallyas favourite after fisichella. Its no surprise there that he will be back. He is good and should be able to take FI forward In a few races once he gets adjusted.

I think there are more deserving drivers for the remaining seats. Let's face it, Sutil did have a fair run of 5 years in F1 during which he lost to Fisico 3 years in a row. Although I admit he did have his moments occasionally, but still, I'd rather like Kobayashi, Alguersuari, Buemi, Senna or some rookie to take that FI seat.

froze wrote:I think there are more deserving drivers for the remaining seats. Let's face it, Sutil did have a fair run of 5 years in F1 during which he lost to Fisico 3 years in a row. Although I admit he did have his moments occasionally, but still, I'd rather like Kobayashi, Alguersuari, Buemi, Senna or some rookie to take that FI seat.

This. Sutil is nothing special and in the 5 years he was with the team they didn't exactly go shooting up the grid other than the odd one off race. He had his time, he didn't do much and he left. That should be that.

Had a few memorable press conferences though. I agree though leave it at that visa problems bad publicity, its not football seats in f1 are goldust and shouldn't be taken up by thugs its bad for the sport, funny when temps boil at the track but to attack someone with a glass is just not what this sport needs the remaining seats should really go to deserving drivers who can maintain their public image at all times which is required of people in the public eye as well as drive.

I hope not. I've never really been a big fan of his and he hasn't really done much to change that opinion of late. There's too many young prospects coming through to keep digging up drivers that never deliver.

potter84 wrote:Had a few memorable press conferences though. I agree though leave it at that visa problems bad publicity, its not football seats in f1 are goldust and shouldn't be taken up by thugs its bad for the sport, funny when temps boil at the track but to attack someone with a glass is just not what this sport needs the remaining seats should really go to deserving drivers who can maintain their public image at all times which is required of people in the public eye as well as drive.

It has nothing to do with what he did in that nightclub. He just isn't a good enough driver for F1.

He never seemed like he was anything special as a driver, not bad (he did have a few nice stretches, early-mid '10, and late '11), but not some top talent either. And he'll be 30 by the time they're testing next year, so IMO there are better options for Force India on many fronts, especially on the heels of what I felt was a very good season of progress for the team. It shouldn't need to scrap for a driver to replace Hulk. (In fact, it could be argued that its a better opportunity than the seat at Lotus as the seat at Lotus is clearly a #2, whereas such orders aren't established when Diresta is the returning driver at FI.)

But, its quite obvious Vijay really believes in Sutil an awful lot, and its going to be his call. I can only assume the delay in making a final decision may be in Force India trying to feel out what damage the 'image' issue could do in the sponsorship area. It's one thing to say you aren't looking for a pay driver... its another to go with one who may cost you dollars with some sponsorship. My gut instinct is that is the only thing holding up an announcement, as it would seem the delay isn't a matter of waiting on a decision of where Senna may go with his backing.

Personally, I'd rather see a younger driver get the opportunity, either a rookie or near rookie, or perhaps one with more experience like a Senna or Kamui, who might benefit from a new setting.

But if the signs are correct, only some really negative feedback from sponsors may deter Vijay from returning Sutil to a seat after a 1-year 'out of site, let people forget' out of the seat period.

If a midfield team is actively seeknig a promising German, who has on occassion demonstrated plenty of potential without actually standing out, what would be wrong with Timo Glock..?

RebellionLola wrote:he is gonna kick di resta, maldonado ,bottas ,hulkenber m guitterezz 's donkeys and teach these amateurs how to be fast without crashing every two laps

Lol.

Singapore 2009 : recovering from a spin and crash with Heidfeld.
Brazil 2009 : crash with Trulli in the 1st lap, also collected Grosjean.
Bahrain 2010 : collision with Kubica at the 1st corner.

Ja'a wrote:

RebellionLola wrote:he is gonna kick di resta, maldonado ,bottas ,hulkenber m guitterezz 's donkeys and teach these amateurs how to be fast without crashing every two laps

Lol.

Singapore 2009 : recovering from a spin and crash with Heidfeld.
Brazil 2009 : crash with Trulli in the 1st lap, also collected Grosjean.
Bahrain 2010 : collision with Kubica at the 1st corner.

wow mate you got me there , 3 accidents in 3 years , that is a disaster

The best piano player of the current crop of drivers.

I like him quite much and hope he gets the seat.

RebellionLola wrote:

Ja'a wrote:

RebellionLola wrote:he is gonna kick di resta, maldonado ,bottas ,hulkenber m guitterezz 's donkeys and teach these amateurs how to be fast without crashing every two laps

Lol.

Singapore 2009 : recovering from a spin and crash with Heidfeld.
Brazil 2009 : crash with Trulli in the 1st lap, also collected Grosjean.
Bahrain 2010 : collision with Kubica at the 1st corner.

wow mate you got me there , 3 accidents in 3 years , that is a disaster

Don't forget throwing it at the wall in china 09 or Canada 07 both times throwing away a rare points finish both times.

Laura23 wrote:

froze wrote:I think there are more deserving drivers for the remaining seats. Let's face it, Sutil did have a fair run of 5 years in F1 during which he lost to Fisico 3 years in a row. Although I admit he did have his moments occasionally, but still, I'd rather like Kobayashi, Alguersuari, Buemi, Senna or some rookie to take that FI seat.

This. Sutil is nothing special and in the 5 years he was with the team they didn't exactly go shooting up the grid other than the odd one off race. He had his time, he didn't do much and he left. That should be that.

You mean except for going from being concrete backmarkers to regularly getting through to Q3? Force India have gone from being a laughing stock in their first 2 years to being a midfield team that people really want to drive for! I'd wager Sutil (and Fisi) had a fairly big impact on how that development curve went.

mikeyg123 wrote:

RebellionLola wrote:

Ja'a wrote:

RebellionLola wrote:he is gonna kick di resta, maldonado ,bottas ,hulkenber m guitterezz 's donkeys and teach these amateurs how to be fast without crashing every two laps

Lol.

Singapore 2009 : recovering from a spin and crash with Heidfeld.
Brazil 2009 : crash with Trulli in the 1st lap, also collected Grosjean.
Bahrain 2010 : collision with Kubica at the 1st corner.

wow mate you got me there , 3 accidents in 3 years , that is a disaster

Don't forget throwing it at the wall in china 09 or Canada 07 both times throwing away a rare points finish both times.

Yet you fail to mention his run of 6 points finishes in 2010 or finishing in the points in half the races in the 2010 and 2011 season, compared to only 14 points finishes for his team mates. He also beat Di Resta and Liuzzi by double the amount of points (considering what we know about how average Liuzzi was, does that say something about Di Resta?). In a midfield car those are some pretty good claims.

If you want to talk about accidents like that, you could do it about almost any driver. Perez has thrown it off the road twice in the last 5 races and he's getting a Mclaren seat!

Volantary wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

RebellionLola wrote:

Ja'a wrote:

RebellionLola wrote:he is gonna kick di resta, maldonado ,bottas ,hulkenber m guitterezz 's donkeys and teach these amateurs how to be fast without crashing every two laps

Lol.

Singapore 2009 : recovering from a spin and crash with Heidfeld.
Brazil 2009 : crash with Trulli in the 1st lap, also collected Grosjean.
Bahrain 2010 : collision with Kubica at the 1st corner.

wow mate you got me there , 3 accidents in 3 years , that is a disaster

Don't forget throwing it at the wall in china 09 or Canada 07 both times throwing away a rare points finish both times.

Yet you fail to mention his run of 6 points finishes in 2010 or finishing in the points in half the races in the 2010 and 2011 season, compared to only 14 points finishes for his team mates. He also beat Di Resta and Liuzzi by double the amount of points (considering what we know about how average Liuzzi was, does that say something about Di Resta?). In a midfield car those are some pretty good claims.

If you want to talk about accidents like that, you could do it about almost any driver. Perez has thrown it off the road twice in the last 5 races and he's getting a Mclaren seat!

He beat di Resta by closer to 50% his points total, not double, and it was di Resta's first year in F1, which when you compare Sutil's greater experience, I think that was a very respectable season for di Resta against Sutil. What has showed up di Resta this season was the performance of Hulkenberg, coming in after a year away and putting together a good run of results in the second half of the season.

Sutil's record against team mates is that he was level with a declining Fisichella, who was beaten by a rookie Kovalainen at Renault before he moved to Force India. He was better than Winkelhock, Albers and Liuzzi, and beat a rookie di Resta, but didn't trounce him, when he had 4 years more experience. Further, he was still making the kind of rash lunges that got him into trouble that we see from less experienced drivers. Every driver can have a bad day at the office and a collision, or spin off, I just haven't seen real signs of progression from Sutil, just changes in team mates. If he comes back next season alongside di Resta that will be a fairer test.

Excuse me... Can someone tell me how does what happened in the past determine what will happen in the future? Yes so Sutil crashed and yes he was beaten by Fisichella. He did show some good pace in many races. Massa had bad form for almost 2 yrs but most of the sensible people said he should keep his seat. Now hes back. Hakkinen crashed a few times during his time at the beginning of the career. But still I dont remember anyone then saying he shouldnt have a drive. He went on to become one of the greats with 2 WDCs. 1 Thing you need to keep in mind is the car was much different then. Today FI has more money. They are consistently scoring points they are also getting some fresh investment for next year. If Sutil does get the drive. Its only a matter of getting used to the car. Things could change alot but maybe not dramatically.

hittheapex wrote:-snip-

Sorry, maths fail, I managed to get 27 * 2 = 44 because I'm a genius But we shall see about Sutil should he return.

RebellionLola wrote:he is gonna kick di resta, maldonado ,bottas ,hulkenber m guitterezz 's donkeys and teach these amateurs how to be fast without crashing every two laps

That's quite rich remembering how in 2009 he was single-handedly responsible for losing 8th place in WCC to Renault, because his gherkin poor performances (Spa, absolutely abysmal when his teammate was fighting for a win) and god knows how many crashes. My favourite one was in Singapore, when he recovered from a spin only to ram poor Heidfeld, what a moronic manoeuvre that was.

BTW. Sutil can only dream about having talent comparable to Hulkenberg or Bottas.

sutil had his chance. he was average then anything else, therefore he should not be signed up. there are many drivers who deserve a seat like kk, alguersuari, bianchi, senna and buemi.

Armchair Expert wrote:

RebellionLola wrote:he is gonna kick di resta, maldonado ,bottas ,hulkenber m guitterezz 's donkeys and teach these amateurs how to be fast without crashing every two laps

That's quite rich remembering how in 2009 he was single-handedly responsible for losing 8th place in WCC to Renault, because his gherkin poor performances (Spa, absolutely abysmal when his teammate was fighting for a win) and god knows how many crashes. My favourite one was in Singapore, when he recovered from a spin only to ram poor Heidfeld, what a moronic manoeuvre that was.

BTW. Sutil can only dream about having talent comparable to Hulkenberg or Bottas.

Again, you can do that with any driver. What about His Lewisness in Hungary 2011, span in the wet then decided to spin the car around, very narrowly missing a head on collision Di Resta. Or His Vettelness t-boning Jenson at Spa 2010 because he was too ambitious into the bus stop. Or maybe Jenson taking his front wing off in an attempt to pass an impossibly slow HRT in Malaysia this year.

Most drivers to stupid things at some point in their career.

diablof1 wrote:sutil had his chance. he was average then anything else, therefore he should not be signed up. there are many drivers who deserve a seat like kk, alguersuari, bianchi, senna and buemi.

Doesn't the same apply to Senna and Buemi then? Both were average if you ask me. Out of those you listed, only Bianchi hasn't had a chance.
Sutil at least has the speed, Senna was humiliated last season by Maldonado. Pastor just didn't manage to keep a cool head. You can learn from mistakes, you can't learn speed.

I agree Sutil had his chance but Senna has had three chances in three different cars. If he was any good, he'd still be in one of them.

I find it laughable that people are suggesting super-slow Senna deserves a seat, when a fast, consistent and proven driver like Sutil apparently doesn't.

I accept that during his opening 3 seasons in F1 (07-09) he was too rash and made mistakes, but he was driving backmarker cars during these years and maybe tried too hard to compete with faster cars.

When given a competitive midfield car in 2010 & 11, he really shone.
- He cut out his mistakes, demonstrated great speed and consistently finished in the points.
- Excellent 2011 season, finished 9th in WDC, behind only much faster Red Bull, Ferrari, Mclaren and Mercedes Cars.
- Thrashed Liuzzi in 2010 and easily beat Di Resta in 2011.

rocks4brains wrote:

diablof1 wrote:sutil had his chance. he was average then anything else, therefore he should not be signed up. there are many drivers who deserve a seat like kk, alguersuari, bianchi, senna and buemi.

Doesn't the same apply to Senna and Buemi then? Both were average if you ask me. Out of those you listed, only Bianchi hasn't had a chance.
Sutil at least has the speed, Senna was humiliated last season by Maldonado. Pastor just didn't manage to keep a cool head. You can learn from mistakes, you can't learn speed.

I agree Sutil had his chance but Senna has had three chances in three different cars. If he was any good, he'd still be in one of them.

buemi was even stevens with alguersuari and both showed potential so deserve another chance. about pastor your right he did not keep his mind at check a few times but he has improved and showed us that win in spain was no fluke. senna is 50/50, but give him pre- season testing with friday testing he might surprise some people.

diablof1 wrote:

rocks4brains wrote:

diablof1 wrote:sutil had his chance. he was average then anything else, therefore he should not be signed up. there are many drivers who deserve a seat like kk, alguersuari, bianchi, senna and buemi.

Doesn't the same apply to Senna and Buemi then? Both were average if you ask me. Out of those you listed, only Bianchi hasn't had a chance.
Sutil at least has the speed, Senna was humiliated last season by Maldonado. Pastor just didn't manage to keep a cool head. You can learn from mistakes, you can't learn speed.

I agree Sutil had his chance but Senna has had three chances in three different cars. If he was any good, he'd still be in one of them.

buemi was even stevens with alguersuari and both showed potential so deserve another chance. about pastor your right he did not keep his mind at check a few times but he has improved and showed us that win in spain was no fluke. senna is 50/50, but give him pre- season testing with friday testing he might surprise some people.

Buemi and Alguersuari were both very very average and never shown anything special at all, all they shown is they was very average drivers at best. Or though Sutil not a world beater he did show he was a better driver than both of them in F1.

Give Jules Bianchi a chance, Sutil had his shot already.

MikeV1987 wrote:Give Jules Bianchi a chance, Sutil had his shot already.

I'd rather see some new blood given the chance also.

Jomox wrote:

diablof1 wrote:

rocks4brains wrote:

diablof1 wrote:sutil had his chance. he was average then anything else, therefore he should not be signed up. there are many drivers who deserve a seat like kk, alguersuari, bianchi, senna and buemi.

Doesn't the same apply to Senna and Buemi then? Both were average if you ask me. Out of those you listed, only Bianchi hasn't had a chance.
Sutil at least has the speed, Senna was humiliated last season by Maldonado. Pastor just didn't manage to keep a cool head. You can learn from mistakes, you can't learn speed.

I agree Sutil had his chance but Senna has had three chances in three different cars. If he was any good, he'd still be in one of them.

buemi was even stevens with alguersuari and both showed potential so deserve another chance. about pastor your right he did not keep his mind at check a few times but he has improved and showed us that win in spain was no fluke. senna is 50/50, but give him pre- season testing with friday testing he might surprise some people.

Buemi and Alguersuari were both very very average and never shown anything special at all, all they shown is they was very average drivers at best. Or though Sutil not a world beater he did show he was a better driver than both of them in F1.

No one knows if Sutil is a better driver than those two. They had different cars and differing levels of performance over the season. How do we not know that Sutil may have been severely underperforming in the Force India? You just can't tell.

What we can compare Sutil to is his past team mates and none of them were anything that special and he barely beat a rookie Di Resta, he only had to beat Albers and Yamamoto in 2007 (I mean as bad drivers go they are among the worst), he was beaten by Fisichella when Fisi really was in his twilight years and he beat Luizzi. As drivers go you can;t get much more underwhelming than Sutil.

The two you mentioned only ever had to face each other and in Buemi's case Bourdais who he beat before Seb was sacked mid way through 09 for Jaime.

But in F1 it's not just about beating your team mate, it's about showing you are capable of F1 even in midfield teams as others have done before getting a better driver. Buemi and Alguersuari were both very very average and never shown anything special and got dropped as a result, that's F1.

Regardless of how they compare to Sutil he at least did enough to keep a seat in F1 and would of stayed if it was not for him nearly killing someone. (Even if he was not a world beater)

Jomox wrote:But in F1 it's not just about beating your team mate, it's about showing you are capable of F1 even in midfield teams as others have done before getting a better driver. Buemi and Alguersuari were both very very average and never shown anything special and got dropped as a result, that's F1.

Regardless of how they compare to Sutil he at least did enough to keep a seat in F1 and would of stayed if it was not for him nearly killing someone. (Even if he was not a world beater)

Sutil had sponsorship money from Medion. That's why he kept his seat so long, that and there wasn't exactly an influx of young talent in the 07-10 period save for Hamilton and Vettel. If he didn't have those millions then I doubt he'd have seen 2009 with FI.

But he was just as average a driver as either of the two you mentioned.

Laura23 wrote:

Jomox wrote:But in F1 it's not just about beating your team mate, it's about showing you are capable of F1 even in midfield teams as others have done before getting a better driver. Buemi and Alguersuari were both very very average and never shown anything special and got dropped as a result, that's F1.

Regardless of how they compare to Sutil he at least did enough to keep a seat in F1 and would of stayed if it was not for him nearly killing someone. (Even if he was not a world beater)

Sutil had sponsorship money from Medion. That's why he kept his seat so long, that and there wasn't exactly an influx of young talent in the 07-10 period save for Hamilton and Vettel. If he didn't have those millions then I doubt he'd have seen 2009 with FI.

But he was just as average a driver as either of the two you mentioned.

Okay so , is The Hulk also average? As Sutil beat Di Resta better than the Hulk. Hulk & Di Resta both was very close untill the last few races of the season. Yes Di Resta was a rookie but who's to say he's actually improved this season, however 2011 and 2012 the Force India was pretty much the same in terms of speed yet Sutil managed to finish 9th in 2011 while the Hulk 11th this year. So even though you don't think the Hulk is average by saying Sutil is average (despite doing better than the Hulk in the FI) you are really saying he is.

I'm just bringing up the reality of the situation, I never rated Sutil to be that good (Not world beater but he did okay) and I don't believe anyone who did what Sutil did should be coming back to F1, in fact he should of been locked up.

He should not be allowed to reply.
He almost killed a person with his rage attack.
He might be an ok driver (nothing spectacular, considering that even a 1-year-off Hulkenberg did a number on an experienced DiResta, and Sutil was an "experienced" driver last year), but he should not be walking free on the streets.