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Ferrari seems happy, so I guess it was worth it for them. Some fans are happy and some are not, so I guess opinions are more diverse there.

As for the two drivers, they seem quite happy too, so I guess they agree with Ferrari.

Worth it for who?

For Ferrari, probably. Kimi didn't seem to fit into the what they wanted as a driver, they hired him to replace Schumacher and I don't think Kimi was able to do that, at least as not as well as Fernando has. It's not to do with driving skills, more personality or character. On the track their results in terms of titles seem lean in Kimi's favour, that's hardly the fault of Alonso, Kimi had the better machinery in his time at Ferrari. Plus Ferrari got Santander onboard to finally get rid of the Tobbaco Title Sponsor.

For the Drivers. Alonso seems happy as he undoubtedly would. Kimi seems, like Kimi, I don't think he cares either way at this point.

I rather like Kimi, and am very grateful for his time at Ferrari. However, and this is going to get me "flamed", I truly believe that Alonso is the better driver and a better fit for the team. Kimi and Massa were a good and very near equal pairing, with Kimi winning the WDC in 2007 and Massa coming ever so close in 2008... it was fun times.

However, as fast as Kimi is...and he is certifiably quick... I don't think he has the everyday race consistency of Alonso, nor do I think he was as dedicated to the team as Alonso has been. Chemistry and dedication are important aspects of a top team, and I think that Alonso fits that mold better... so my answer is "Yes" Ferrari is better off so it was worth it.

BTW, I think Kimi is probably happier as well... plus he got 10 million for not racing... so it is a win-win for both!

I think they would if they could (as I think most teams would), but I really don't think Lotus have anywhere near the sort of funds required to break Alonso out of his contract, even if the will was there from both parties.

So far it's been far from worth it:

1 WDC
1 WCC
vs
0 WDC
0 WCC

Please don't bring up the excuses as the simple facts are Kimi was far more successful at Ferrari than Alonso has been (Alonso's time at Ferrari is seen as a failure until he's won a title with them, drivers or constructors)

The number one driver policy and making Massa not compete and yield any time he's ahead of Alosno certainly has not helped them either.

No, in my opinion, and I'll tell you why.

Since 2010, Ferrari have had all kinds of drama. First there was Germany 2010, and it caused an uproar. Is swapping cars around really that bad? Ultimately, probably not, and the fact they were fined a mere $100,000 possibly confirms that. But it ruins the show. Yes, maybe it is better for Alonso's championship challenge, but I think many feel it was still a little too early. Like Austria 2002. What would have been much better for Alonso's championship challenge is not jumping the start at China, or not crashing the car in FP3 at Monaco, or giving the position straight back to Kubica at Silverstone. But Ferrari and Alonso dragged it out to Abu Dhabi, only to catch themselves out.

Then Ferrari had a relatively subdued season in 2011. One win at Silverstone, thanks to a somewhat odd sets of rules that weekend, and more consistent driving from Alonso.

And of course, there was 2012. Ferrari, to their credit, brilliantly turning their season around from pre-season testing to lead the WDC. Of course, Alonso's part in this should also be noted, as he was the standout driver along with Vettel all year. Things were good when they were out in front. But then, when it started to slip away from Ferrari, partly due to a series of unfortunate events, and partly due to Red Bull and Vettel striking when it mattered most, things began to get uglier. Some would call it petty remarks, discrediting his rival, others would call it gamesmanship. All through the summer, Alonso had been hailed, and Ferrari praised for their strategies, and execution and maximisation of races. But then, it was no longer just the driver catching Alonso, it was their brilliant technical director too. There was Austin, with what some would call brilliant, and with what others would call underhand. And finally, there was Brazil. Some would give Ferrari the benefit of the doubt, and others still would say it was a ploy, driven by Alonso, to try and smear and discredit the job done by Red Bull and Vettel.

That was Ferrari with Alonso. Two very near misses in 3 years, with the driver many regard as the most complete for several years now. Although it is impossible to know what Räikkönen could have achieved in the same three years, of Räikkönen we do know this. He is quiet, he gets his head down, and he does what he does best. For all the talk and rumours in 2009 about being unmotivated, being matched by Massa, and not delivering his on his enormous potential, he has returned in 2012, after two years away, and instantly reaffirmed himself as one of the very best. Many people at Lotus say he is highly motivated, we know Massa can match Alonso, from 2010 and the latter races of 2012, and to finish 3rd in the WDC on your return displays the potential Räikkönen has in abundance. Whilst much can change in three years, and in particular in Formula One, 2009 Räikkönen does seem to add up.

And so with Räikkönen, Ferrari could have got on with the job in hand. Winning titles. Except the one thing all the dramas since 2010 have obscured. The one thing that would have been highlighted quickly with Räikkönen's no nonsense attitude. The one thing that has truly stopped Ferrari from winning.

The car.

jomox...

It may come as a surprise, but the car is a factor too, as well as the competition in winning Championships... not always do the drivers have a lot to say about it. You may see Alonso's time at Ferrari as a failure, but as one who doesn't come across as a Ferrari fan, or even close to it, I doubt that means a lot to the team.

BTW, going with the policy of helping the driver with the best opportunity to win the WDC has not exactly hurt Ferrari... so I have no idea of how you can say it has not "helped them either".

2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2007, 2008....... That is 13 championships in this century.. in 13 years... mix of WDCs & WCCs.

Seems like it has worked to me!


and Yes, I know that they have not won in a whole 4 years... but then, only two teams have.

Floppy_Boy wrote:No, in my opinion, and I'll tell you why.

Since 2010, Ferrari have had all kinds of drama. First there was Germany 2010, and it caused an uproar. Is swapping cars around really that bad? Ultimately, probably not, and the fact they were fined a mere $100,000 possibly confirms that. But it ruins the show. Yes, maybe it is better for Alonso's championship challenge, but I think many feel it was still a little too early. Like Austria 2002. What would have been much better for Alonso's championship challenge is not jumping the start at China, or not crashing the car in FP3 at Monaco, or giving the position straight back to Kubica at Silverstone. But Ferrari and Alonso dragged it out to Abu Dhabi, only to catch themselves out.

Then Ferrari had a relatively subdued season in 2011. One win at Silverstone, thanks to a somewhat odd sets of rules that weekend, and more consistent driving from Alonso.

And of course, there was 2012. Ferrari, to their credit, brilliantly turning their season around from pre-season testing to lead the WDC. Of course, Alonso's part in this should also be noted, as he was the standout driver along with Vettel all year. Things were good when they were out in front. But then, when it started to slip away from Ferrari, partly due to a series of unfortunate events, and partly due to Red Bull and Vettel striking when it mattered most, things began to get uglier. Some would call it petty remarks, discrediting his rival, others would call it gamesmanship. All through the summer, Alonso had been hailed, and Ferrari praised for their strategies, and execution and maximisation of races. But then, it was no longer just the driver catching Alonso, it was their brilliant technical director too. There was Austin, with what some would call brilliant, and with what others would call underhand. And finally, there was Brazil. Some would give Ferrari the benefit of the doubt, and others still would say it was a ploy, driven by Alonso, to try and smear and discredit the job done by Red Bull and Vettel.

That was Ferrari with Alonso. Two very near misses in 3 years, with the driver many regard as the most complete for several years now. Although it is impossible to know what Räikkönen could have achieved in the same three years, of Räikkönen we do know this. He is quiet, he gets his head down, and he does what he does best. For all the talk and rumours in 2009 about being unmotivated, being matched by Massa, and not delivering his on his enormous potential, he has returned in 2012, after two years away, and instantly reaffirmed himself as one of the very best. Many people at Lotus say he is highly motivated, we know Massa can match Alonso, from 2010 and the latter races of 2012, and to finish 3rd in the WDC on your return displays the potential Räikkönen has in abundance. Whilst much can change in three years, and in particular in Formula One, 2009 Räikkönen does seem to add up.

And so with Räikkönen, Ferrari could have got on with the job in hand. Winning titles. Except the one thing all the dramas since 2010 have obscured. The one thing that would have been highlighted quickly with Räikkönen's no nonsense attitude. The one thing that has truly stopped Ferrari from winning.

The car.

+1

The Alonso factor has certainly not worked at Ferrari at all, to many downsides and drama's, none of it helps in the mist of things when it comes to winning titles.

Schumacher was good at that, just putting in the hard yards within the team, yes he was controversial in his incidents but of the track and in the team he was the best there is, and he never let anything faze him. Alonso is not like that, there is always many negative drama's each season when Alonso is involved. He's one of the best yes but he comes with baggage and that has a negative effect in any team.

Raikkonen is very much his own man and cannot be replaced or act as a replacement for any other driver. Despite winning his WDC with them, somehow Raikkonen's individualistic personality never seemed to jell with Ferrari bosses' autocratic attitude. Lotus is just the sort of 'small' team where Raikkonen will be appreciated and can relax and give his best, the car allowing, of course.
On the other hand, Alonso and Ferrari are tailormade for each other - you can take it in whatever way you like.

Yes, both parties are better off. Ferrari had a driver who at the time was inconsistent and not driving as well as he had done in his McLaren days IMO. They also had a driver who did not buy into the Ferrari philosophy of building the team around himself (This has never been Kimi's style).

Ferrari now have a driver who suits the team and is more consistent (Then what Kimi was like in 2008+first half of 09), while Kimi is now
at a team where it is more laid back and less corporate and uptight (See Lotus's twitter feed). And he seems to have his old self (driving wise) back.

As a Massa fan, I obviously am biased.

Alonso has been good for Ferrari, I am sorry to admit. Under Stefano, the Great Enabler, Ferrari lacked leadership and Alonso has provided it. It has destroyed Massa though.

Worth what exactly? they didn't just get Fernando, they got a new title sponsor too remember? I don't see that it cost Ferrari anything to replace Kimi with Fernando. I think Santander put up the money to pay Kimi off too. If you mean "was it a good idea?", well again, getting the new title sponsor was probably more important than the driver change from a business point of view.

Would Ferrari be doing any better with Kimi at the wheel instead?

Not a chance.

A Kimi/Massa partnership would not be any more successful than an Alonso/Massa partnership.

A Kimi/Alonso partnership... now that's a different story.

I feel like Alonso is born to be with Ferrari

Kimi was happy at Ferrari as long as Jean Todt was there. Jean leaves and it was down hill for Kimi. Ferrari is too much of a political based team for Kimi handle it alone. Alonso is political himself so both Alonso and Ferrari suit each other nicely.

But was it worth the buy out? No, not at all. Ferrari had internal problems, not driver problems.

Clear proof was when Massa was hurt. Kimi all of sudden was one of the fastest men on the track while collecting the most points in the rest of the races while the chassis was stopped in development. How is that possible other than internal politics?

You have to appreciate the poetic justice in the "lazy, unmotivated, party animal, failing to help develop the car" Finn being the last driver to give Ferrari a world championship in half a decade. What disgusted me even more than Ferrari buying Kimi's contract out was the way in which they tried to drag his name through the mud before he left the team. It was a display of complete disrespect to the driver than won them the championship. I hope that Santander money was worth it. I think that Santander money is cursed and I doubt Ferrari wins a championship while Alonso and Santander are at the team.

az1 wrote:Worth what exactly? they didn't just get Fernando, they got a new title sponsor too remember? I don't see that it cost Ferrari anything to replace Kimi with Fernando. I think Santander put up the money to pay Kimi off too. If you mean "was it a good idea?", well again, getting the new title sponsor was probably more important than the driver change from a business point of view.

You honestly think Ferrari was going to have a tough time finding a new title sponsor? Businesses would have been lining up to sponsor Ferrari. Sure Ferrari might not have gotten a sweetheart deal as they apparently got from Santander but they would have had no problem finding a very solid sponsor.

Raikkonen would have won no more titles than Fernando has done during his tenure at Ferrari. I believe Alonso is better at adapting to a car that doesn't perfectly suit his needs, so I dare say the Spaniard has won more races and scored more podiums than Kimi probably would have in the past 3 years.

I am a kimi fan and i hated the way Kimi was let go at the end of 2009. But i have to say, i dont think Kimi would have done any better in 2010 or 2012 than what alonso did. in 2011 it doesnt matter who did what

All depends on what prospective. I put no.

I think the question is unclear. Worth for who?

For Fernando, yes of course. He couldn't really get a better drive, RBR already had Seb, McLaren was a big no.

For Ferrari, yes, I think so. Alonso brought Santander with him, he has been at very high level during 2010, 2011 and 2012 and I don't think Kimi could have outperformed him.

And the logic with Kimi 1x WDC, Alonso 0x WDC is absurd. It really is.

I think LdM just had to do this - first get rid of Jean Todt, then Kimi; that's just his way of running the Italian team. I see he is pretty happy with it. For Ferrari fans, I don't know, after Brazil they just had to fight every battle for them in many forums, whereas in 2007 all they need to do was savouring the victory. However, they seem pretty happy too. Ferrari and Alonso made for each other, no one object so; whether they can win championship together is still a penny in the air though.

Good point raised by many - worth it for whom?

For all you Ferrari fans out there, this is a pertinent question. I think as fans, you have to answer to whether you like the direction in which your team is going. I am not superstitious, but you have to ask yourself, would bad mouthing Kimi and booting him out come with no consequence at all, if this universe is not some random event and there is such a thing as karma?

I think Alonso is a fine driver, but he doesn't have that golden touch (not yet anyway). Napoleon preferred lucky generals to good ones.

Ferrari should have kept Kimi through the end of his contract. They screwed him over - just as they did Alain. As a avid fan of both, I personally lived through that pain - and the pain of both being completely out of F1 afterward. Alain and Kimi are over it, I'm getting there, lol.

In short, Ferrari's decision was unacceptable. But the reasons don't really concern Alonso - it wouldn't matter who they had brought in, it would be the same - poor behavior on Ferrari's part for when and how they did it.

Totally worth it.
(sarcasm)

No championships since Alonso came aboard.

Jomox wrote:So far it's been far from worth it:

1 WDC
1 WCC
vs
0 WDC
0 WCC

Please don't bring up the excuses as the simple facts are Kimi was far more successful at Ferrari than Alonso has been (Alonso's time at Ferrari is seen as a failure until he's won a title with them, drivers or constructors)

The number one driver policy and making Massa not compete and yield any time he's ahead of Alosno certainly has not helped them either.

Keeping with your simplistic views/comparisons one could easily argue that Alonso is simply a better driver than Kimi because he has more number of podiums, wins, WDCs, etc. So it was logical for Ferrari to replace Kimi with a superior driver.

callMEcrazy wrote:
Keeping with your simplistic views/comparisons one could easily argue that Alonso is simply a better driver than Kimi because he has more number of podiums, wins, WDCs, etc. So it was logical for Ferrari to replace Kimi with a superior driver.

Superior driver who hasn't win any titles to ferrari and won't win any. Alonso is perfect match for Ferrari now when they are punch of loosers. Just wondering when Ferrari and italian press will start talking about Alonsos motivation and being slower than massa just to make room for Vettel to join Ferrari.

Sad to say but for Kimi this has been awesome. He did get paid well, more than he should have to just be replaced in Ferrari and now he can see that he is still the last driver to win WDC and WCC to Ferrari. And still drive a car that can beat ferrari and make Alonso WDC dreams a nightmare.

Alonso might be a little better driver, leader but he is far from being nice and fair guy like Kimi is. We have seen how low teams go with Alonso being number one and leading the team. McLaren, Renault and now Ferrari. Always something happening in the teams. But Alonso knows what he is doing. Atleast he did get Massa to stay at Ferrari when he know that he can control him like a puppet. Why the hell these brasilian driver are wimps now? Senna wouldn't done anything like that but rubens and massa are just jokes.

Fernando was worth it . Never was a fan of him till he joined ferrari .the man haa heart and soul unlike raikonen who allways seemed distant from media fans side of things.

It doesn't matter if he doenst win as he showed that driving with your heart on your sleeve with passion and nearly clinching the championship in a car he shouldnt have ... well that makes me happy and proud to be able to watch such a great driver do his thing.

WJF1 wrote:

callMEcrazy wrote:
Keeping with your simplistic views/comparisons one could easily argue that Alonso is simply a better driver than Kimi because he has more number of podiums, wins, WDCs, etc. So it was logical for Ferrari to replace Kimi with a superior driver.

Superior driver who hasn't win any titles to ferrari and won't win any. Alonso is perfect match for Ferrari now when they are punch of loosers. Just wondering when Ferrari and italian press will start talking about Alonsos motivation and being slower than massa just to make room for Vettel to join Ferrari.

Sad to say but for Kimi this has been awesome. He did get paid well, more than he should have to just be replaced in Ferrari and now he can see that he is still the last driver to win WDC and WCC to Ferrari. And still drive a car that can beat ferrari and make Alonso WDC dreams a nightmare.

Alonso might be a little better driver, leader but he is far from being nice and fair guy like Kimi is. We have seen how low teams go with Alonso being number one and leading the team. McLaren, Renault and now Ferrari. Always something happening in the teams. But Alonso knows what he is doing. Atleast he did get Massa to stay at Ferrari when he know that he can control him like a puppet. Why the hell these brasilian driver are wimps now? Senna wouldn't done anything like that but rubens and massa are just jokes.

What are you smoking ?

How has kimi been as good as fernando who has had a slower car for most of the year ?

Every f1 driver is different I dont want puppets or all nice guys its gotta be a mix and people like alonso shuey senna mansell etc

I dont dislike any of them more so I respect everyone of them even vettel who I prayed wouldnt win the championship.

On your question about massa and rubens its simple they never delivered and are destined to be like that. Senna was formidable and got what he wanted because he was stupid fast and he knew it. Same as alonso now.
Best you get over it.

Sure it is. Alonso is arguably the best driver in the sport, and far more of a leader and a character, which is what Ferrari appear to favour.

Raikkonen was just another driver and became lost at Ferrari, and his motivation waned.

I am no Ferrari fan but if I was in charge of Ferrari, Alonso wins straight away.

Kimi didnt make Massa look like an average driver compared to what Alonso has done. In fact since Alonso joined, Massa has not challenged for the title, in fact Massa only seems to do well in a car thats capable of hitting the podium - and even then he has only hit it once.

Kimi and Massa being team mates for two years and Kimi is no team leader. Kimi to me is a great driver to have but only if you have some one like Alonso/Lewis/Vettel in your team as well.

Muzzyf1 wrote:

What are you smoking ?

How has kimi been as good as fernando who has had a slower car for most of the year ?

Every f1 driver is different I dont want puppets or all nice guys its gotta be a mix and people like alonso shuey senna mansell etc

I dont dislike any of them more so I respect everyone of them even vettel who I prayed wouldnt win the championship.

Atleast we know that what you are smoking.

Ferrari was better in Q (compared to Lotus bad Q-speed in overall), better in straight line speed (at that matters a lot because of this magic button that should be removed from F1) and in race Ferrari was far from being slower than Lotus. Compared to Lotus and Ferrari i would say Ferrari did have edge and was top 3 car and even the fastest in same races. And being out from F1 for years i think Kimi's performance was a lot better. He was third on WDC and few races that he didn't won was because of team. And Alonso loosing to massa in past few races in speed just shows that he couldn't keep it up whole year.

I like drivers that fight but fight fair. Alonso far from that. And i didn't like Schumi. I don't even like Vettel but he got the top 3 car and he delivers, not like Webber that is worst starter in F1 history and still can't do nothing like Vettel is doing.

From start of the season i prayed that Hamilton and Alonso won't win WDC and Kimi would win 1 gp. First it did look like god didn't listen but i'm lucky that he did.

Yes, I think it is. I don't think Kimi fit in with Ferrari very well, whereas Fernando is great for them. If Fernando had gone to Ferrari instead of Kimi in 07, I reckon we'd of seen Fernando the 05, 06, 07, and 08 champion. Since 08 though, Ferrari hasn't had as good a car. I'd say 2010 was the best car since then, and Fernando almost won the title in that year.

The weak link is most definately the car, whereas Fernando is the strongest link in Ferrari I'd say. He make Massa look average, Kimi made Massa look world class, like Championship material. Kimi is an exceptional driver, but I'd say Fernando is several degress better.

Yes Kimi had to be replaced really. He had been losing to Massa for a year and a half and for Ferrari thats far from good enough for there top line driver. If Felipe Keeps up his end of season form and beats Alonso for the next two years do you think Fernando will stay at Ferrari?

Jomox wrote:So far it's been far from worth it:

1 WDC
2 WCC
vs
0 WDC
0 WCC

Please don't bring up the excuses as the simple facts are Kimi was far more successful at Ferrari than Alonso has been (Alonso's time at Ferrari is seen as a failure until he's won a title with them, drivers or constructors)

The number one driver policy and making Massa not compete and yield any time he's ahead of Alosno certainly has not helped them either.

Corrected it for you it is huge in terms of money


apparently they have equal quantity of wins for 3 seasons at Ferrari (52 GPs for Kimi and 58 GPs for Fernando) - each has 9 wins (it's not over yet for Fernando of course)

Muzzyf1 wrote:

WJF1 wrote:

callMEcrazy wrote:
Keeping with your simplistic views/comparisons one could easily argue that Alonso is simply a better driver than Kimi because he has more number of podiums, wins, WDCs, etc. So it was logical for Ferrari to replace Kimi with a superior driver.

Superior driver who hasn't win any titles to ferrari and won't win any. Alonso is perfect match for Ferrari now when they are punch of loosers. Just wondering when Ferrari and italian press will start talking about Alonsos motivation and being slower than massa just to make room for Vettel to join Ferrari.

Sad to say but for Kimi this has been awesome. He did get paid well, more than he should have to just be replaced in Ferrari and now he can see that he is still the last driver to win WDC and WCC to Ferrari. And still drive a car that can beat ferrari and make Alonso WDC dreams a nightmare.

Alonso might be a little better driver, leader but he is far from being nice and fair guy like Kimi is. We have seen how low teams go with Alonso being number one and leading the team. McLaren, Renault and now Ferrari. Always something happening in the teams. But Alonso knows what he is doing. Atleast he did get Massa to stay at Ferrari when he know that he can control him like a puppet. Why the hell these brasilian driver are wimps now? Senna wouldn't done anything like that but rubens and massa are just jokes.

What are you smoking ?

How has kimi been as good as fernando who has had a slower car for most of the year ?

Every f1 driver is different I dont want puppets or all nice guys its gotta be a mix and people like alonso shuey senna mansell etc

I dont dislike any of them more so I respect everyone of them even vettel who I prayed wouldnt win the championship.

On your question about massa and rubens its simple they never delivered and are destined to be like that. Senna was formidable and got what he wanted because he was stupid fast and he knew it. Same as alonso now.
Best you get over it.

Are you trying to say the lotus was a better car than the ferrari for most of the year? Wonder how long it will take for people to clam the HRT was better than it.

iceman_fan90 wrote:You have to appreciate the poetic justice in the "lazy, unmotivated, party animal, failing to help develop the car" Finn being the last driver to give Ferrari a world championship in half a decade. What disgusted me even more than Ferrari buying Kimi's contract out was the way in which they tried to drag his name through the mud before he left the team. It was a display of complete disrespect to the driver than won them the championship. I hope that Santander money was worth it. I think that Santander money is cursed and I doubt Ferrari wins a championship while Alonso and Santander are at the team.

It appeared to me that Kimi was only happy to take the money. He didn't have to you know, he could have sorted out a top drive elsewhere on the grid.

Alonso's a bit of a drama queen, but he's a better fit for Ferrari. But overall I think Kimi is the faster driver, if they were both in the same team the difference in points at the end of the season would be quite small though. I'm glad Kimi's found a team like Lotus. No bullshit, just race.

Blake wrote:I rather like Kimi, and am very grateful for his time at Ferrari. However, and this is going to get me "flamed", I truly believe that Alonso is the better driver and a better fit for the team. Kimi and Massa were a good and very near equal pairing, with Kimi winning the WDC in 2007 and Massa coming ever so close in 2008... it was fun times.

However, as fast as Kimi is...and he is certifiably quick... I don't think he has the everyday race consistency of Alonso, nor do I think he was as dedicated to the team as Alonso has been. Chemistry and dedication are important aspects of a top team, and I think that Alonso fits that mold better... so my answer is "Yes" Ferrari is better off so it was worth it.

BTW, I think Kimi is probably happier as well... plus he got 10 million for not racing... so it is a win-win for both!

he got 10million for not racing and is happy with that. but it must kill him inside knowing ferrari PAID him not to race for them.