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So I'm going karting this week and I'm looking for a bit of advice.

Me and my mate have decided to go head to head to figure out who is the best driver. It came about through many heated discussions Relating to driving and me horsing him on many racing games.

Now we've decided to settle head to head on the track to find out who is the better man! 3 sessions. And it's the best of three.

Iv been karting before and thoroughly enjoyed it. The reason in seeking advice here is that I'm a bit heavier than he is, so I need to fine tune my craft to compensate for the acceleration loss!

So. Any tips out there?

Oh and Just to let you know. He loves cars and racing games but hates oitorsports of any kind!
So I'd really like to humiliate him!

Make sure you get a good exit out of the corners.

1. Don't ignore yellow flags.
2. Don't tweet any info to your mate.
3. When you win pls don't show the finger.

Other than that, have fun!

Punt him out of the way.

Learn the racing lines, and think about the next corner, not the one you are still in. IE look and think ahead, that way you'll be more proactive rather than reacting.

You'll make more time from accelerating early than braking late, so late apexes and early (but gentle) throttle application is the way to go. This might mean you seem to spend more time going round the corner, but much of that should be accelerating and higher apex speeds.

Also expect to spin/oversteer! Cant stress this enough, if you expect the kart to slide before going into any corner you'll more likely catch it. Doesn't necessarily mean you should aim to drift around the corners, just be wary of it. It will help you to cope with the limits better.

HAve fun

In fast corners, gently lean toward the outside; you'll put more weight on the outside wheels, which are sticking the most to the tarmac at that point. Don't follow your "instinct" and lean toward the inside like you would do on a motorcycle, you'd lose precious grip.

For slow corners lean towards the inside as the inner wheel does the most work.

Did I get that right?

Well for really slow corners his mass can pretty much stay in the middle, as it won't do much anyway, but otherwise you should always lean towards the outside.

Make sure you force him into the pit wall if he tries to overtake

Don't brake in corners, brake before and power through smoothly. Karts turn better on the loud pedal.

'Waste' your first session learning the track and the cart, then win the next 2 before he figures it out

Watch the lines of the winner of the previous session

Thank you for the tips everyone.

I am particularly buoyed by the murderous undertones of some...

Hate to say it, but whoever is the lighter will probably win.
If there is more than a stone difference then its almost a dead cert.

At the Buckmore park track, my friend was 3 stone heavier than me and I was 3.5 seconds per lap quicker. It is a 50 second lap.
Then he slimmed down to my exact weight and I was only 0.2 quicker than him.

Put him into the wall

lamo wrote:Hate to say it, but whoever is the lighter will probably win.
If there is more than a stone difference then its almost a dead cert.

At the Buckmore park track, my friend was 3 stone heavier than me and I was 3.5 seconds per lap quicker. It is a 50 second lap.
Then he slimmed down to my exact weight and I was only 0.2 quicker than him.

My brother is about 4 stone lighter than me, and was about 2 seconds faster on a 32ish second lap. I was slow but placed medium in pretty much all races. I was really slow on the straights. I think I was more consistent than my brother though, and ended up ahead of him in final standings. Being quite tall (191 cm) I found it hard to not be pressing the brake even when I wanted to go full speed. Only way to not do it was to have my leg in a real weird position. I blame that for my lack of pace too. If I think of any other excuses, I'll let you know!

Don't be afraid to be a total scumbag in overtaking. I was happy to close gaps so someone has to get off the throttle or hit the wall, and had it done to me. Or take lines that blatantly block. Not sure everyone woudl agree but I enjoyed doing it.

Anyway, have fun. I hurt my hand karting first time, but it's a good fun way to spend an afternoon.

ThreeEightOne wrote:In fast corners, gently lean toward the outside; you'll put more weight on the outside wheels, which are sticking the most to the tarmac at that point. Don't follow your "instinct" and lean toward the inside like you would do on a motorcycle, you'd lose precious grip.

Theoretically leaning towards the inside would give you more grip, as adding more load to the more loaded tyre will cause it's coefficient of friction to drop.

M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:

ThreeEightOne wrote:In fast corners, gently lean toward the outside; you'll put more weight on the outside wheels, which are sticking the most to the tarmac at that point. Don't follow your "instinct" and lean toward the inside like you would do on a motorcycle, you'd lose precious grip.

Theoretically leaning towards the inside would give you more grip, as adding more load to the more loaded tyre will cause it's coefficient of friction to drop.

Karts are peculiar little *inaudible*. Low HP to grip ratio, no suspension and a solid rear axle makes them completely different to drive and set up than any other motorsport. Put simply, the inside rear tyre must be either unweighted or off the ground completely during cornering to get best results. If you leaned to the inside you unnecessarily weight the inside tyre which will be trying to travel the same distance as the outside, but on a tighter radius which just binds the whole chassis and saps precious horsepower.

lamo wrote:Hate to say it, but whoever is the lighter will probably win.
If there is more than a stone difference then its almost a dead cert.

At the Buckmore park track, my friend was 3 stone heavier than me and I was 3.5 seconds per lap quicker. It is a 50 second lap.
Then he slimmed down to my exact weight and I was only 0.2 quicker than him.

You see some of the 'serious' carters jump in the seat to try to reduce the weight
dont know if it works or not

You could diet ... or hide some lead in his kart

jono794 wrote:

M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:

ThreeEightOne wrote:In fast corners, gently lean toward the outside; you'll put more weight on the outside wheels, which are sticking the most to the tarmac at that point. Don't follow your "instinct" and lean toward the inside like you would do on a motorcycle, you'd lose precious grip.

Theoretically leaning towards the inside would give you more grip, as adding more load to the more loaded tyre will cause it's coefficient of friction to drop.

Karts are peculiar little *inaudible*. Low HP to grip ratio, no suspension and a solid rear axle makes them completely different to drive and set up than any other motorsport. Put simply, the inside rear tyre must be either unweighted or off the ground completely during cornering to get best results. If you leaned to the inside you unnecessarily weight the inside tyre which will be trying to travel the same distance as the outside, but on a tighter radius which just binds the whole chassis and saps precious horsepower.

No not really, no suspension is really is just as good as a very stiff suspension.

What you are proposing will induce Oversteer since total rear grip will be reduced to what i am proposing and all that depends on what the fronts are doing and the tyre properties.


As for the OP, just have fun and avoid sliding the Kart. slow in fast out is the way to go IMO, so just be subtle with your inputs.

With that said, just keep in the back of your head that sometimes you can use a slide to your advantage. in a local track nearby there is s turn similar to turn 1-2 in Malaysia (fast long right directly followed by a slower left) but on a smaller scale I used to brake very late for turn 1 and maintain small throttle and keep the car as straight as possible, i then tried a second approach where i braked at the same point i did before but midpoint used a more aggressive throttle approach to help me turn the car a bit quicker for the second turn which actually helped a little bit as it lost me some speed and turned the car and i didn't have to brake.

Rubbing is racing! Just remember that.

I beat Alex MacDowall karting this way a few weeks ago! ;o)

Div49 wrote:Rubbing is racing! Just remember that.

I used to do weekends at a place that also had a Kart track. We decided to have a bit of a go after my end was waiting for the next session and no one was there for the Karts.

The boss didn't agree with the Rubbing bit Wasn't too happy with me cutting the kerbs either


But as for the OP I wouldn't read too much into the results anyway. The Karts are usually that different you don't know if it's the Kart or the driver. After a few heats you can usually pick out the good kart from the bad ones quite easy. If you get the bad one you know your *inaudible*.

M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:

jono794 wrote:

M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:

ThreeEightOne wrote:In fast corners, gently lean toward the outside; you'll put more weight on the outside wheels, which are sticking the most to the tarmac at that point. Don't follow your "instinct" and lean toward the inside like you would do on a motorcycle, you'd lose precious grip.

Theoretically leaning towards the inside would give you more grip, as adding more load to the more loaded tyre will cause it's coefficient of friction to drop.

Karts are peculiar little *inaudible*. Low HP to grip ratio, no suspension and a solid rear axle makes them completely different to drive and set up than any other motorsport. Put simply, the inside rear tyre must be either unweighted or off the ground completely during cornering to get best results. If you leaned to the inside you unnecessarily weight the inside tyre which will be trying to travel the same distance as the outside, but on a tighter radius which just binds the whole chassis and saps precious horsepower.

No not really, no suspension is really is just as good as a very stiff suspension.

What you are proposing will induce Oversteer since total rear grip will be reduced to what i am proposing and all that depends on what the fronts are doing and the tyre properties.

I'll just leave this here...

Wow... Then I suppose roughly 100% of pro kart drivers are doing it wrong! Someone tell 'em!!

jono794 wrote:

M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:

jono794 wrote:

M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:

ThreeEightOne wrote:In fast corners, gently lean toward the outside; you'll put more weight on the outside wheels, which are sticking the most to the tarmac at that point. Don't follow your "instinct" and lean toward the inside like you would do on a motorcycle, you'd lose precious grip.

Theoretically leaning towards the inside would give you more grip, as adding more load to the more loaded tyre will cause it's coefficient of friction to drop.

Karts are peculiar little *inaudible*. Low HP to grip ratio, no suspension and a solid rear axle makes them completely different to drive and set up than any other motorsport. Put simply, the inside rear tyre must be either unweighted or off the ground completely during cornering to get best results. If you leaned to the inside you unnecessarily weight the inside tyre which will be trying to travel the same distance as the outside, but on a tighter radius which just binds the whole chassis and saps precious horsepower.

No not really, no suspension is really is just as good as a very stiff suspension.

What you are proposing will induce Oversteer since total rear grip will be reduced to what i am proposing and all that depends on what the fronts are doing and the tyre properties.

I'll just leave this here...

Pie being baked and will get right down to eating it

But i still maintain this will induce oversteer. whether the driver needs that or not this is a different matter.

M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:But i still maintain this will induce oversteer. whether the driver needs that or not this is a different matter.

You can maintain whatever you want buddy, but it still won't change that you're wrong. It's not a matter of opinions that we've got here, it's a matter of facts. Here are two examples: Opinion: I think you know little about kart physics. Fact: Karts do have more grip if you lean towards the outside of corners.

EDIT: Kart axles are locked, so if the inside wheel touches the ground and turns at the same speed as the outside wheel, THIS will induce oversteer. There is no differential to "adjust" wheel speeds. You must lean towards the outside to lift the inside wheel off the ground momentarily. Fact.

And now I'm done arguing with you, have a good life.

Ced

ThreeEightOne wrote:

M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:But i still maintain this will induce oversteer. whether the driver needs that or not this is a different matter.

You can maintain whatever you want buddy, but it still won't change that you're wrong. It's not a matter of opinions that we've got here, it's a matter of facts. Here are two examples: Opinion: I think you know little about kart physics. Fact: Karts do have more grip if you lean towards the outside of corners.

EDIT: Kart axles are locked, so if the inside wheel touches the ground and turns at the same speed as the outside wheel, THIS will induce oversteer. There is no differential to "adjust" wheel speeds. You must lean towards the outside to lift the inside wheel off the ground momentarily. Fact.

And now I'm done arguing with you, have a good life.

Ced

Actually your argument convinced me. i was wrong. i was carried away by what i am working at that i forgot some of the Kart stuff.

P.S you haven't actually argued with me at all, it was all Joni. You just came in and wrote two posts, one sarcastic (which i deserved for saying something wrong) which i didn't respond to and this one. an argument involves 2 sides.

now as for an argument "EDIT: Kart axles are locked, so if the inside wheel touches the ground and turns at the same speed as the outside wheel, THIS will induce oversteer. There is no differential to "adjust" wheel speeds. You must lean towards the outside to lift the inside wheel off the ground momentarily. Fact." which inside wheel are you talking about touching the ground, front or rear? for my original post i was assuming the fronts where the ones the driver wanted to leave the ground, and with that the front end will have lower front grip and the car will understeer.

Seeing the picture though cleared me up a bit and then i wrote the stupid thing i wrote forgetting the no diff setup on Karts.

It's alright mate. You want the inside rear wheel to lift up, not the front one.

How did the Karting experience go?

M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:How did the Karting experience go?

Good question! We got carried away a bit...

Well in other news i went Karting this week as well.
I was with 3 guys, one 21 Kg lighter than me ( i'll call hi Lightest guy), the second (faster one) 16 kg lighter (will call him lighter guy).

Here is the track (The final S section is a beaut! and the second hairpin is toughest to get right)
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... permPage=1

We have all been there a couple of times and i have driven nearly all the karts there (me and the lighter guy) up to 18Hp, there is a faster 21 Hp but this is reserved for the national Karting champ (i will get to use it one time, won't stop nagging )

around 0.75-1 Km (can't remember exactly) and a lap was around 47-50s depending on Kart and skill.

We went for 2 sessions, the first one was in a more powerful but much heavier Kart. which proved to be the slower of the 2. and in the second session we went for a lighter, less powerful but faster Kart.

For the first session unsurprisingly i lost out at the start due to my weight disadvantage, Managed to get 1st place by lap 3 and then me and the other fast guy dueled out for a bit before he breezed past me on one of the straight. I was fighting quite hard with him and trying my best to deny him a good exit since the other two guys were much, much, much faster than me on the straight, i am not sure if it was the Kart or my weight but on every straight (no matter how short it was) one would pass me and the other would be right behind. Luckily i brake latter than both of them so i managed to take bake 1st every time i lost it, that until i was easily passed down a straight.
Anyway after the first session we ended up with me second and the lightest guy 3rd. the fastest lap was for the 1st guy 0.3s faster than me and the lightest guys was 0.3s slower. surprisingly the gap was still the same looking at average time. should point out that the lighter guy was complaining that his front left had no grip and understeered greatly in right turns.


on our second heat in the much better and faster Kart. the guys started directly after the outlap and i was a little bit behind. the first corner is a hairpin and the two were side by side when suddenly the lightest guy suddenly spun 180 degrees under braking, i was right behind him and managed to brake and steer aggressively and avoid him with just a small bump (i was heading head on and would have probably him him directly due to me being more than 65km/hr at that point, i was much praised by the watchers for this). from then on i was on a mission to catch the lighter guy quite a bit infront, i put in a series of fast laps and was right up behind him and could tell i was much faster than him in this heat. this time i was not that much slower in the straights but was miles ahead in cornering so i used that advantage and passed him in the final S sector (which i am usually a lot faster than both guys in both sessions). from then on i was taking my corners carefully to slow him up behind me and get on the throttle earlier to get more speed on the straights, which worked well this time since he couldn't breeze past like he did the first time (but came alongside several times but then i always outbraked him in the corners and covered my inside). around midpoint he managed to get a better exit to the start finish straight and was alongside entering the hairpin, i took a very deep inside line and at the braking point he spun which was it for him. i did a lap after that, got bored and slowed down a bit to let him catch up and let him pass (just to have some fun) and was on the hunt again. Unfortunately though this time i was not able to pass as he defended well.

Fastest lap was me 0.2s up on the lighter guy and 1 s up on the lightest guy. Average lap the gap was 0.3 between each one with me fastest. I was also a tenth off fastest time of the day on the track.

I also tried but couldn't lean as much outward than i wanted to test it out and looking Here i am not sure if it is necessary.

What do you guys think? it was TONS of fun. we did many races there before and quali sessions but this was the best really.

I just been karting this week at my local (indoor) track where I set the lap record before Uni, and they've bloody added a new outdoor section so the times all change! But nevertheless was good fun, the outdoor straight and Malaysia 1&2 sector followed by another straight were actually really fun, just flooring it! Went with a good group of lads, for three time trial sessions (they weren't doing races, track isn't wide enough. Its a really narrow track so overtaking is quite difficult, you've really got to pick your moment and go, no one pays attention to blue flags there! Its not uncommon to see queues of people behind slower karts/drivers.


First session, I came 2nd in terms of fastest lap time, and I was the most consistent, lapping progressively faster. Surprisingly my brother, who is heavier than me somewhat, won, he was really good. My best mate had awful times, and was quite slow. Had to do a few overtakes on him, thankfully he's good and actually moves out of the way if he knows you're behind him.

Second session, I won fastest lap time, and most consistent! Yay! Mate came third, much faster than previously, whilst brother was mega slow... in the same kart as what my best mate had previously been slow in. Hmmm, I see a pattern emerging.

Third session, guess who got the slow kart? Oh yeah, ME. So I tried to be mental trying to out-drive the car. I was overtaken quite regularly, which is actually really disheartening isn't it? Even when it's just time trials and it doesn't matter, it's so disheartening to be overtaken and I pushed harder and harder to get away from anyone closing in on me, until the blue flags waved, and I moved out of the way to try and chase them down again. I don't like cars being ahead of me on track, I have to go faster and overtake, I can't help it. My brother and mate enjoyed overtaking me regularly. I ended up stuck behind a generally slower/newer driver, tried overtaking up the inside of a hairpin, whilst blues were waved at him, and he turned in on me, I ended up in the barrier My day was over, as the kart wouldn't move afterwards.

All in all, great fun. Always good racing my bro and mate and their friends. They always make fun of me wearing the bright pink helmet though I think it's just a good way of them knowing where I am on the track at all times haha.

So has anyone got any experience with DD2 or KZ karts? or anything of the 125cc or above?

those things are a beast! i am seriously considering saving up to get one just for the adrenaline rush

I'm going karting this weekend and I'm excited and nervous. But what keeps bugging me is that the fear of crashing. All my life I desiree to race, but crashing and possibly killing myself scares me so what do I do?

go racing.

Don't be. Wear your gear, keep your wits about you and pay attention to the dudes with flags.

Is this just a casual day at a kart track or a genuine race?

If it is just a casual thing, go have fun. If you are going to enter a race, you need to answer all three questions.

Do you have driving experience? Have you ever driven a kart? Are you familiar with most of the unwritten rules of racing? If you can answer yes to all three questions then just get out there and have fun.

It sounds like this is just a casual day but your first time. If so do not try to win anything and just drive around and learn. Do not impair your senses, there is no shame in being slow for your first time, and do not worry about traffic or anyone but yourself. Just do not change lanes unexpectedly, that can mess up a fast kart behind you.

If you can have someone with experience give you their time, find out what is expected of you. Wear good gloves and helmet, cover up with durable clothing so that no skin is exposed.

Then get out there and have fun.

As already said, go have fun... you have protective gear, and bumpers on the kart itself, I have taken a few knocks karting and no injuries, despite on time being hit in the side, other kart coming out a flat out corner, just took a moment to gather my senses and then I was back in it again...

I assume you have some racing knowledge being on this forum, so you know the flags, you know the basics...

Again... go have fun, put ya foot down, test the limit if you feel like it, most likely thing to happen is that you will spin and this scrubs off speed big time

Have all the fun that you need, do countless spins as it is a good way to learn.

I have seen people crash at the same hairpin at every lap in their first times without touching the brakes, as long as you have a helmet you should be fine

Thanks for the comments guy.