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Bottas 10.0 seems to be getting worse as his training gets better.. Maybe he should try training in Mars for next season?

schumilegend wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 4:40 pm

Bottas 10.0 seems to be getting worse as his training gets better.. Maybe he should try training in Mars for next season?

It is the media at first and now the fans that get carried away with these silly Bottas 3.0, 4.0 and upwards. He deserved that 2.0 I guess when he dominated pretty much the only race he ever has at the start of 2019, but other than that, it is getting a bit silly how often this is brought up.

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 4:11 pm

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 3:55 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 2:38 pm

pc27b wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 11:58 am

i don't understand the constant bad mouthing of bottas. as a fan, would we all have liked vettel, or the last few seasons Verstappen, in the other merc, to see how those battles would go ? of course.

wolf has made it clear over and over that the last two season with Hamilton and rosberg where terrible for the team moral. (tension/arguments)

bottas does what he is hired to do, merc keep winning the constructor's championship. all good for them

Also he keeps beating Perez, I must be missing something beyond seemingly his inability to beat Hamilton as often as some would like, against Max he was on cold tyres and Max also had DRS, let's not mention the slow Mercedes pitstop relative to Red Bull.

I seem to recall a driving error from Max which enabled Hamilton an easy pass, where's the roast on that one?

Verstappen only got alongside Bottas. Had Bottas defended the inside he keeps the place DRS or not. It's being commented on because this is a constant issue with Bottas.

Both passes are being discussed though, Hamilton's pass on Bottas was not outstanding it was just a rubbish defence from Bottas, well Hamilton had a lot easier pass on Max because of his driving error, I daresay if that had been Bottas that would be Bottas bottling it and why didn't he cover the inside line.

Bottas did make it easier for Hamilton. It was another example of his awful defending.

I'm not sure what Max has to do with it but there's literally a thread made to discuss his mistakes. It's not exactly being swept under the carpet.

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 7:45 pm

schumilegend wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 4:40 pm

Bottas 10.0 seems to be getting worse as his training gets better.. Maybe he should try training in Mars for next season?

It is the media at first and now the fans that get carried away with these silly Bottas 3.0, 4.0 and upwards. He deserved that 2.0 I guess when he dominated pretty much the only race he ever has at the start of 2019, but other than that, it is getting a bit silly how often this is brought up.

I wonder what version Hamilton is by now.

To me it looks like Bottas has kinda capped out in the current environment.

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 8:51 pm

Bottas did make it easier for Hamilton. It was another example of his awful defending.

I'm not sure what Max has to do with it but there's literally a thread made to discuss his mistakes. It's not exactly being swept under the carpet.

I still do wonder what the reason for this occurring so much more often now is though.

Just remembering several races from 2015:

Bahrain - Bottas managed to hold Vettel behind for a large number of laps to the end. Enough for Vettel to start making a few lockups towards the end.

Spain - Kimi was within a second and a half to DRS range for the last 10 laps in a far faster car, and Bottas put in plenty of good defending and kept him behind.

Russia - He dealt with Kimi pretty well and cleared Perez quickly on the last lap - the end result was kimi making a bad move rather than bottas's lack of defence.

In Mexico he was again racing with a Ferrari. It was quite a coincidence that it was Kimi following soon after Russia, but what was interesting about this is it probably was one of Bottas's solid overtakes that wasn't easy. It may have involved an incident, but Kimi should have been aware. Even the commentators were saying that was a brave move from Bottas and that Kimi should have been aware he was there. You have to question where his confidence with these moves has gone. He only seems to often show a bit of aggression at the start of races.



There are plenty of others I could list, but the vast majority of them are when he was at williams. Is he actually less comfortable with this car that it distracts him enough to have blank moments with lack of defence? It does seem strange.

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Thu May 06, 2021 10:01 am

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 8:51 pm

Bottas did make it easier for Hamilton. It was another example of his awful defending.

I'm not sure what Max has to do with it but there's literally a thread made to discuss his mistakes. It's not exactly being swept under the carpet.

I still do wonder what the reason for this occurring so much more often now is though.

Just remembering several races from 2015:

Bahrain - Bottas managed to hold Vettel behind for a large number of laps to the end. Enough for Vettel to start making a few lockups towards the end.

Spain - Kimi was within a second and a half to DRS range for the last 10 laps in a far faster car, and Bottas put in plenty of good defending and kept him behind.

Russia - He dealt with Kimi pretty well and cleared Perez quickly on the last lap - the end result was kimi making a bad move rather than bottas's lack of defence.

In Mexico he was again racing with a Ferrari. It was quite a coincidence that it was Kimi following soon after Russia, but what was interesting about this is it probably was one of Bottas's solid overtakes that wasn't easy. It may have involved an incident, but Kimi should have been aware. Even the commentators were saying that was a brave move from Bottas and that Kimi should have been aware he was there. You have to question where his confidence with these moves has gone. He only seems to often show a bit of aggression at the start of races.



There are plenty of others I could list, but the vast majority of them are when he was at williams. Is he actually less comfortable with this car that it distracts him enough to have blank moments with lack of defence? It does seem strange.

Yes, I agree at Williams he was good at defensive driving. That being said it must be remarked that the Mercedes engine still had a big advantage back then so undoubtedly that extra straight line speed made things easier.

He just doesn't seem hungry now. Maybe the issue is that he's actually become too comfortable? Rich, happy and altogether less desperate for success.

I don't think not being comfortable with the car could be used as an explanation. Why would you need to be comfortable with the car to try and defend your position? And he's still quick.

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Thu May 06, 2021 10:08 am

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Thu May 06, 2021 10:01 am

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 8:51 pm

Bottas did make it easier for Hamilton. It was another example of his awful defending.

I'm not sure what Max has to do with it but there's literally a thread made to discuss his mistakes. It's not exactly being swept under the carpet.

I still do wonder what the reason for this occurring so much more often now is though.

Just remembering several races from 2015:

Bahrain - Bottas managed to hold Vettel behind for a large number of laps to the end. Enough for Vettel to start making a few lockups towards the end.

Spain - Kimi was within a second and a half to DRS range for the last 10 laps in a far faster car, and Bottas put in plenty of good defending and kept him behind.

Russia - He dealt with Kimi pretty well and cleared Perez quickly on the last lap - the end result was kimi making a bad move rather than bottas's lack of defence.

In Mexico he was again racing with a Ferrari. It was quite a coincidence that it was Kimi following soon after Russia, but what was interesting about this is it probably was one of Bottas's solid overtakes that wasn't easy. It may have involved an incident, but Kimi should have been aware. Even the commentators were saying that was a brave move from Bottas and that Kimi should have been aware he was there. You have to question where his confidence with these moves has gone. He only seems to often show a bit of aggression at the start of races.



There are plenty of others I could list, but the vast majority of them are when he was at williams. Is he actually less comfortable with this car that it distracts him enough to have blank moments with lack of defence? It does seem strange.

Yes, I agree at Williams he was good at defensive driving. That being said it must be remarked that the Mercedes engine still had a big advantage back then so undoubtedly that extra straight line speed made things easier.

He just doesn't seem hungry now. Maybe the issue is that he's actually become too comfortable? Rich, happy and altogether less desperate for success.

I don't think not being comfortable with the car could be used as an explanation. Why would you need to be comfortable with the car to try and defend your position? And he's still quick.

Basically as i thought may be the case. Is he getting too distracted by trying to manage his tyres (which he is also now worse at) that he can't always process doing that while doing a decent defence. Obviously a weakness if it is.

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Thu May 06, 2021 11:22 am

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Thu May 06, 2021 10:08 am

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Thu May 06, 2021 10:01 am

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 8:51 pm

Bottas did make it easier for Hamilton. It was another example of his awful defending.

I'm not sure what Max has to do with it but there's literally a thread made to discuss his mistakes. It's not exactly being swept under the carpet.

I still do wonder what the reason for this occurring so much more often now is though.

Just remembering several races from 2015:

Bahrain - Bottas managed to hold Vettel behind for a large number of laps to the end. Enough for Vettel to start making a few lockups towards the end.

Spain - Kimi was within a second and a half to DRS range for the last 10 laps in a far faster car, and Bottas put in plenty of good defending and kept him behind.

Russia - He dealt with Kimi pretty well and cleared Perez quickly on the last lap - the end result was kimi making a bad move rather than bottas's lack of defence.

In Mexico he was again racing with a Ferrari. It was quite a coincidence that it was Kimi following soon after Russia, but what was interesting about this is it probably was one of Bottas's solid overtakes that wasn't easy. It may have involved an incident, but Kimi should have been aware. Even the commentators were saying that was a brave move from Bottas and that Kimi should have been aware he was there. You have to question where his confidence with these moves has gone. He only seems to often show a bit of aggression at the start of races.



There are plenty of others I could list, but the vast majority of them are when he was at williams. Is he actually less comfortable with this car that it distracts him enough to have blank moments with lack of defence? It does seem strange.

Yes, I agree at Williams he was good at defensive driving. That being said it must be remarked that the Mercedes engine still had a big advantage back then so undoubtedly that extra straight line speed made things easier.

He just doesn't seem hungry now. Maybe the issue is that he's actually become too comfortable? Rich, happy and altogether less desperate for success.

I don't think not being comfortable with the car could be used as an explanation. Why would you need to be comfortable with the car to try and defend your position? And he's still quick.

Basically as i thought may be the case. Is he getting too distracted by trying to manage his tyres (which he is also now worse at) that he can't always process doing that while doing a decent defence. Obviously a weakness if it is.

I don't know. It's possible. He just seems to make bad decisions when racing. He seems massively risk averse as well. That's good to a point but as Hamilton showed on Sunday you need to take risks sometimes.

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 8:51 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 4:11 pm

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 3:55 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 2:38 pm

pc27b wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 11:58 am

i don't understand the constant bad mouthing of bottas. as a fan, would we all have liked vettel, or the last few seasons Verstappen, in the other merc, to see how those battles would go ? of course.

wolf has made it clear over and over that the last two season with Hamilton and rosberg where terrible for the team moral. (tension/arguments)

bottas does what he is hired to do, merc keep winning the constructor's championship. all good for them

Also he keeps beating Perez, I must be missing something beyond seemingly his inability to beat Hamilton as often as some would like, against Max he was on cold tyres and Max also had DRS, let's not mention the slow Mercedes pitstop relative to Red Bull.

I seem to recall a driving error from Max which enabled Hamilton an easy pass, where's the roast on that one?

Verstappen only got alongside Bottas. Had Bottas defended the inside he keeps the place DRS or not. It's being commented on because this is a constant issue with Bottas.

Both passes are being discussed though, Hamilton's pass on Bottas was not outstanding it was just a rubbish defence from Bottas, well Hamilton had a lot easier pass on Max because of his driving error, I daresay if that had been Bottas that would be Bottas bottling it and why didn't he cover the inside line.

Bottas did make it easier for Hamilton. It was another example of his awful defending.

I'm not sure what Max has to do with it but there's literally a thread made to discuss his mistakes. It's not exactly being swept under the carpet.

I have to ask what could Bottas have done better against Hamilton?

Invade wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 8:56 pm

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 7:45 pm

schumilegend wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 4:40 pm

Bottas 10.0 seems to be getting worse as his training gets better.. Maybe he should try training in Mars for next season?

It is the media at first and now the fans that get carried away with these silly Bottas 3.0, 4.0 and upwards. He deserved that 2.0 I guess when he dominated pretty much the only race he ever has at the start of 2019, but other than that, it is getting a bit silly how often this is brought up.

I wonder what version Hamilton is by now.

To me it looks like Bottas has kinda capped out in the current environment.

I think Hamilton is an unusual variety that simply keeps getting better with age, I guess it belies just how immature he was in the first part of his F1 career.

pokerman wrote: ↑

Thu May 06, 2021 3:54 pm

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 8:51 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 4:11 pm

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 3:55 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 2:38 pm

Also he keeps beating Perez, I must be missing something beyond seemingly his inability to beat Hamilton as often as some would like, against Max he was on cold tyres and Max also had DRS, let's not mention the slow Mercedes pitstop relative to Red Bull.

I seem to recall a driving error from Max which enabled Hamilton an easy pass, where's the roast on that one?

Verstappen only got alongside Bottas. Had Bottas defended the inside he keeps the place DRS or not. It's being commented on because this is a constant issue with Bottas.

Both passes are being discussed though, Hamilton's pass on Bottas was not outstanding it was just a rubbish defence from Bottas, well Hamilton had a lot easier pass on Max because of his driving error, I daresay if that had been Bottas that would be Bottas bottling it and why didn't he cover the inside line.

Bottas did make it easier for Hamilton. It was another example of his awful defending.

I'm not sure what Max has to do with it but there's literally a thread made to discuss his mistakes. It's not exactly being swept under the carpet.

I have to ask what could Bottas have done better against Hamilton?

I know you like the missed apex podcast. Have you listened to the Portuguese GP edition yet? They sum up my thoughts on the matter well.

Put it this way... Rolls reversed and it's Bottas attempting to overtake Hamilton with the same run down the straight do you seriously think Bottas makes the pass? I don't. Hamilton would successfully defend well enough to keep position.

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Thu May 06, 2021 5:05 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Thu May 06, 2021 3:54 pm

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 8:51 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 4:11 pm

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 3:55 pm

Verstappen only got alongside Bottas. Had Bottas defended the inside he keeps the place DRS or not. It's being commented on because this is a constant issue with Bottas.

Both passes are being discussed though, Hamilton's pass on Bottas was not outstanding it was just a rubbish defence from Bottas, well Hamilton had a lot easier pass on Max because of his driving error, I daresay if that had been Bottas that would be Bottas bottling it and why didn't he cover the inside line.

Bottas did make it easier for Hamilton. It was another example of his awful defending.

I'm not sure what Max has to do with it but there's literally a thread made to discuss his mistakes. It's not exactly being swept under the carpet.

I have to ask what could Bottas have done better against Hamilton?

I know you like the missed apex podcast. Have you listened to the Portuguese GP edition yet? They sum up my thoughts on the matter well.

Put it this way... Rolls reversed and it's Bottas attempting to overtake Hamilton with the same run down the straight do you seriously think Bottas makes the pass? I don't. Hamilton would successfully defend well enough to keep position.

For myself I just see a collision and I guess that Bottas did as well, such a risk you might take against Max but not your teammate. We also have to contemplate a race ending collision or at least a gifted win for Max, how would that make Bottas' future job prospects?

I can guarantee run that back with Perez being in Bottas' position against Max and there's no way he's risking a collision.

pokerman wrote: ↑

Thu May 06, 2021 10:45 pm

I can guarantee run that back with Perez being in Bottas' position against Max and there's no way he's risking a collision.

I'm not so sure why you'd guarantee that, considering how Perez has raced teammates in the past. If he legitimately thought he could hold Max behind him, I think he'd risk it.

pokerman wrote: ↑

Thu May 06, 2021 10:45 pm

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Thu May 06, 2021 5:05 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Thu May 06, 2021 3:54 pm

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 8:51 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 4:11 pm

Both passes are being discussed though, Hamilton's pass on Bottas was not outstanding it was just a rubbish defence from Bottas, well Hamilton had a lot easier pass on Max because of his driving error, I daresay if that had been Bottas that would be Bottas bottling it and why didn't he cover the inside line.

Bottas did make it easier for Hamilton. It was another example of his awful defending.

I'm not sure what Max has to do with it but there's literally a thread made to discuss his mistakes. It's not exactly being swept under the carpet.

I have to ask what could Bottas have done better against Hamilton?

I know you like the missed apex podcast. Have you listened to the Portuguese GP edition yet? They sum up my thoughts on the matter well.

Put it this way... Rolls reversed and it's Bottas attempting to overtake Hamilton with the same run down the straight do you seriously think Bottas makes the pass? I don't. Hamilton would successfully defend well enough to keep position.

For myself I just see a collision and I guess that Bottas did as well, such a risk you might take against Max but not your teammate. We also have to contemplate a race ending collision or at least a gifted win for Max, how would that make Bottas' future job prospects?

I can guarantee run that back with Perez being in Bottas' position against Max and there's no way he's risking a collision.

But Hamilton seemed happy with that risk? I don't see why Bottas not conceding the racing line causes a crash?

Hamilton was in front and picked his line through the corner leaving racing room on the inside, there's no way that Bottas could have got back in front without contact, he neither had the momentum going into the corner, the positioning or the line to take the same speed through the corner as Hamilton.

pokerman wrote: ↑

Fri May 07, 2021 3:31 pm

Hamilton was in front and picked his line through the corner leaving racing room on the inside, there's no way that Bottas could have got back in front without contact, he neither had the momentum going into the corner, the positioning or the line to take the same speed through the corner as Hamilton.

False I'm afraid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjZnd3V7JwI - Check 3:05 and 3:06 you can compare the position of their cars to the white line on track and see Bottas is actually just ahead on turn in.

Had he stayed on the racing line he would have had the positioning and the line to take MORE speed through the corner and stayed ahead.

Yeah, having just watched Jolyon Palmer's analysis, it's quite clear that Hamilton is not ahead when both cars begin braking. Bottas went defensive and braked early, yielding the corner.

schumilegend wrote: ↑

Sat May 08, 2021 2:35 pm

Unnecessary derogatory comments about Bottas, removed by moderation team

If it is wet, then this time he could well do. If it is dry, It is very unlikely that any others will finish ahead of him. Red bull is the only team that looks close on race day and Perez is nowhere near.

He was terrible when it was wet this year, certainly.

However, in the first race, his pace matched Hamilton. Then although he fell back in the previous race, he was catching Verstappen and got right up towards 1 second until his car had an issue, then he didn't really have a chance again and mercedes pitted him for FLAP. His pace was solid in spain, but just not quite up there with Hamilton.

Another predictable Bottas performance. Not bad, not at Hamilton/Verstappen level but slightly better than Perez maybe. Trouble is with team-harmony and all the titles still going their way, why would Merc change anything.

DOLOMITE wrote: ↑

Mon May 10, 2021 8:57 am

Another predictable Bottas performance. Not bad, not at Hamilton/Verstappen level but slightly better than Perez maybe. Trouble is with team-harmony and all the titles still going their way, why would Merc change anything.

I would say this was slightly worse than a typical bottas performance. He was 26 seconds behind Hamilton despite having the same number of pit stops and one of them even giving him a bit of an undercut. But he still finished 26 seconds behind and that doesn't include the 8 seconds or so he lost before the safety car.

His race pace was a fair bit better in Bahrain and Portugal where he was at least on Verstappen's pace at the end and would have been on his tail without bad luck.

I have to wonder if Bottas is succumbing more to internet pressure, the hating he gets because he can't beat Hamilton, a driver that is either not liked or people are fed up of him winning all the time, it obviously affects him as in, "to whom it my concern, fck you".

If he lets Hamilton by he gets more stick so with what he did then eases the internet hate, of course he says he was driving for himself but his reasoning was somewhat flawed he basically was concerned more about getting the fastest lap of the race, yeah a bunch of 3rd places and an occasional fastest lap is going to get you the title, Hamilton turned down the fastest lap last time out, a win is much more important.

You have to wonder were his headspace is right now a driver who can't except being second best to Hamilton but is second best to Hamilton and is often delusional in reviewing his own performance. A team order was not issued against Bottas so he didn't ignore a team order as such it was just a request to do the right thing.

It's strange when comparison is made with Perez, who quickly slowed down and jumped out the way of Max, that unlike Bottas, Perez is not a title contender, even after yesterday Perez is only 15 points behind Bottas.

On the back of Bottas dismissing any ideas of being replaced midseason when asked at the previous race meeting it's a curious decision that Bottas took if he wants to remain at Mercedes for next season, that being said he can still be considered a safe pair of hands in that he can make things difficult for Max and he won't crash out Hamilton.

pokerman wrote: ↑

Mon May 10, 2021 10:32 am

It's strange when comparison is made with Perez, who quickly slowed down and jumped out the way of Max, that unlike Bottas, Perez is not a title contender, even after yesterday Perez is only 15 points behind Bottas.

Neither of them is a title contender. But I think Perez knows that, whereas Bottas (as you say) suffers from some level of delusion in regards to his ability to match Hamilton.

Got to steel this comment from youtube as it is amusing and pretty accurate:

"right front tire, its James. Please hold position I'm sorry!"

Whenever Hamilton is having bad performance or luck, somehow the universe makes sure that Bottas has even worse.
During their time together at Mercedes, Hamilton has been outside the podium 18 times and only 2 of these Bottas has won.

I've been thinking something similar. Bottas seems to have more bad luck when Hamilton is having a bad day. An interesting coincidence.

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Tue May 25, 2021 7:10 am

I've been thinking something similar. Bottas seems to have more bad luck when Hamilton is having a bad day. An interesting coincidence.

In this case maybe not, apparently Bottas pulled up slightly short of his pit box which meant the gun went on at an angle which lead to the damaged wheel nut, Bottas was responsible for the out come.

pokerman wrote: ↑

Tue May 25, 2021 10:01 am

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Tue May 25, 2021 7:10 am

I've been thinking something similar. Bottas seems to have more bad luck when Hamilton is having a bad day. An interesting coincidence.

In this case maybe not, apparently Bottas pulled up slightly short of his pit box which meant the gun went on at an angle which lead to the damaged wheel nut, Bottas was responsible for the out come.

Drivers stop short or go past their marks all the time and we don't see this and besides, the other 3 wheel guns worked well enough. This reeks of desperation to pin the blame on Bottas, undeservedly, to me.

Black_Flag_11 wrote: ↑

Tue May 25, 2021 10:15 am

pokerman wrote: ↑

Tue May 25, 2021 10:01 am

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Tue May 25, 2021 7:10 am

I've been thinking something similar. Bottas seems to have more bad luck when Hamilton is having a bad day. An interesting coincidence.

In this case maybe not, apparently Bottas pulled up slightly short of his pit box which meant the gun went on at an angle which lead to the damaged wheel nut, Bottas was responsible for the out come.

Drivers stop short or go past their marks all the time and we don't see this and besides, the other 3 wheel guns worked well enough. This reeks of desperation to pin the blame on Bottas, undeservedly, to me.

pokerman wrote: ↑

Tue May 25, 2021 10:01 am

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Tue May 25, 2021 7:10 am

I've been thinking something similar. Bottas seems to have more bad luck when Hamilton is having a bad day. An interesting coincidence.

In this case maybe not, apparently Bottas pulled up slightly short of his pit box which meant the gun went on at an angle which lead to the damaged wheel nut, Bottas was responsible for the out come.

Pictures show this isn't true.

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... claimed_by

Even if it was it still wouldn't make Bottas responsible. It's pretty odd with Toto's so called no blame culture that he seems very happy to falsely blame Bottas here.

Siao7 wrote: ↑

Tue May 25, 2021 10:24 am

Black_Flag_11 wrote: ↑

Tue May 25, 2021 10:15 am

pokerman wrote: ↑

Tue May 25, 2021 10:01 am

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Tue May 25, 2021 7:10 am

I've been thinking something similar. Bottas seems to have more bad luck when Hamilton is having a bad day. An interesting coincidence.

In this case maybe not, apparently Bottas pulled up slightly short of his pit box which meant the gun went on at an angle which lead to the damaged wheel nut, Bottas was responsible for the out come.

Drivers stop short or go past their marks all the time and we don't see this and besides, the other 3 wheel guns worked well enough. This reeks of desperation to pin the blame on Bottas, undeservedly, to me.

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Tue May 25, 2021 10:33 am

pokerman wrote: ↑

Tue May 25, 2021 10:01 am

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Tue May 25, 2021 7:10 am

I've been thinking something similar. Bottas seems to have more bad luck when Hamilton is having a bad day. An interesting coincidence.

In this case maybe not, apparently Bottas pulled up slightly short of his pit box which meant the gun went on at an angle which lead to the damaged wheel nut, Bottas was responsible for the out come.

Pictures show this isn't true.

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... claimed_by

Even if it was it still wouldn't make Bottas responsible. It's pretty odd with Toto's so called no blame culture that he seems very happy to falsely blame Bottas here.

Good find. To me it looks like Bottas has perfectly lined up the car and it is indeed the mechanic that's in the wrong position (partly because the new tyre is blocking him).

pokerman wrote: ↑

Tue May 25, 2021 10:01 am

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Tue May 25, 2021 7:10 am

I've been thinking something similar. Bottas seems to have more bad luck when Hamilton is having a bad day. An interesting coincidence.

In this case maybe not, apparently Bottas pulled up slightly short of his pit box which meant the gun went on at an angle which lead to the damaged wheel nut, Bottas was responsible for the out come.

come on toto. ridiculous statement. so the "wheel gun guy" never, ever adjusts the angle of the gun ? just laughable

Wolff seemingly didn't want to blame the team either for Hamilton's poor strategy, is he just being over defensive?

In respect to Bottas it perhaps doesn't say much for his position within the team amongst strong rumours he's going to get replaced by Russell for next year.

It makes you wonder how cordial things are, Bottas basically ignoring a team order, Wolff blaming Bottas for something that's not his fault.

Where does Bottas go from here, he's almost out of the title race already, how soon will he be called upon to help Hamilton, if he's to be replaced next year will he choose to help, if he doesn't help may he even get replaced mid season by Russell?

pokerman wrote: ↑

Tue May 25, 2021 1:55 pm

Wolff seemingly didn't want to blame the team either for Hamilton's poor strategy, is he just being over defensive?

In respect to Bottas it perhaps doesn't say much for his position within the team amongst strong rumours he's going to get replaced by Russell for next year.

It makes you wonder how cordial things are, Bottas basically ignoring a team order, Wolff blaming Bottas for something that's not his fault.

Where does Bottas go from here, he's almost out of the title race already, how soon will he be called upon to help Hamilton, if he's to be replaced next year will he choose to help, if he doesn't help may he even get replaced mid season by Russell?

While I am pretty certain it will be Russell if Bottas gets replaced next year, I'm not convinced Russell is showing to be any better than Bottas overall - yet. He had a great one off performance in Bahrian and several stand outs at williams, but even this year, his poor starts still occur too often. I would say at least a third of his launches in his F1 career have been bad enough to lose a couple of positions had he started further up. While he will likely be better than Bottas at recovering them, this mistake will be very costly at certain tracks. It won't be car related as Kubica frequently had launches where he passed a few cars off the line. And Latifi did that more than Russell too I believe -but didn't keep them. He's also not been anywhere near as impressive on a sunday compared to a saturday in most of the races - like Bottas. This isn't always a problem though. But if people question Latifi even deserving to be in F1, there were a few races last year where Latifi was very close, and last race was another example.

I think Bottas will 100% remain with mercedes until the end of the season. As for next year, I think it is more likely than not that Bottas will go, but I wasn't certain enough to vote in the other thread as we don't know about hamilton for certain yet.

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Tue May 25, 2021 10:33 am

pokerman wrote: ↑

Tue May 25, 2021 10:01 am

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Tue May 25, 2021 7:10 am

I've been thinking something similar. Bottas seems to have more bad luck when Hamilton is having a bad day. An interesting coincidence.

In this case maybe not, apparently Bottas pulled up slightly short of his pit box which meant the gun went on at an angle which lead to the damaged wheel nut, Bottas was responsible for the out come.

Pictures show this isn't true.

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... claimed_by

Even if it was it still wouldn't make Bottas responsible. It's pretty odd with Toto's so called no blame culture that he seems very happy to falsely blame Bottas here.

I really can't understand this comment either. Stroll is probably one of the worst for lining up his car correctly at the pit stop and his team has no problem with it. And I even remember maldonado having a break problem one time and crashing into the front jack man and he overlapped the pit box by over a metre i think. But I believe they still got the job done.

How can being a tiny fraction too far forward / back possibly be related to this? I would have thought that they started turning the machine (don't know the name) before putting it on the wheel and then that wrecked it. Similar to slipping on a screw with a screw driver. I don't see how it can't have either been a mistake that mechanic made, or an overtightened / cross threaded nut.

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Tue May 25, 2021 9:51 pm

How can being a tiny fraction too far forward / back possibly be related to this? I would have thought that they started turning the machine (don't know the name) before putting it on the wheel and then that wrecked it. Similar to slipping on a screw with a screw driver. I don't see how it can't have either been a mistake that mechanic made, or an overtightened / cross threaded nut.

It is precisely the same as stripping a screw, except that in this case the driver goes on the outside of the 'screw' instead of the inside. Otherwise, no different.

Having worked with screws and power tools pretty much my whole life, this can only be the fault of the man on the wheel gun. Applying too much power at the wrong angle will strip a screw; also, applying power when not properly positioned behind the drill.

If Bottas came into his pit box incorrectly, it was up to the mechanic to reposition himself properly before applying power to the wheel. Bottas' pit box entry may have been a contributing factor, but it can not be his fault that the wheel flanges were destroyed.

Exediron wrote: ↑

Tue May 25, 2021 11:17 pm

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Tue May 25, 2021 9:51 pm

How can being a tiny fraction too far forward / back possibly be related to this? I would have thought that they started turning the machine (don't know the name) before putting it on the wheel and then that wrecked it. Similar to slipping on a screw with a screw driver. I don't see how it can't have either been a mistake that mechanic made, or an overtightened / cross threaded nut.

It is precisely the same as stripping a screw, except that in this case the driver goes on the outside of the 'screw' instead of the inside. Otherwise, no different.

Having worked with screws and power tools pretty much my whole life, this can only be the fault of the man on the wheel gun. Applying too much power at the wrong angle will strip a screw; also, applying power when not properly positioned behind the drill.

If Bottas came into his pit box incorrectly, it was up to the mechanic to reposition himself properly before applying power to the wheel. Bottas' pit box entry may have been a contributing factor, but it can not be his fault that the wheel flanges were destroyed.

But Bottas's position was absolutely fine. We've seen far worse positions, people overshooting the position and hitting the mechanic with the front jack. The tools have flexible hoses for that exact reason, they are to be moved. It is a terrible reach from Toto (and from whoever brought this up) to try and blame Bottas. Golden balls didn't do well in one race and it's the team's fault. The team actually messes something up and it is... Bottas's fault? Give us a break. Double standards and all that. Bottas is caught in a weird Webber/Rubens situation, he needs to move for his own good; but where to go, would you leave the best car?

If Wolff is suggesting that Bottas is primarily responsible for the wheel nut issue, surely he is barking up the wrong tree?
Edit: no pun intended with the use of Wolff and bark in the same sentence...

tootsie323 wrote: ↑

Wed May 26, 2021 9:57 am

If Wolff is suggesting that Bottas is primarily responsible for the wheel nut issue, surely he is barking up the wrong tree?
Edit: no pun intended with the use of Wolff and bark in the same sentence...

Planet F1 reported that even Ferrari had a go after the GP concluded, with the same result; they couldn't get it off!

Tough nut... (ouch, sorry)