planetf1.com

BMWSauber84 wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:19 pm

schumilegend wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:46 pm

Bottas what a clown .. According to him he lost to Hamilton by “fine margins”... talk about downright delusional

You seem to be drawing some ridiculously grand conclusions from a small sample size of date. Russell was impressive but in a world where the last safety car didn't happen, he was by no means on course to smash Bottas by a huge margin, and in fact may have been caught up by him. For all we know, Hamilton would have controlled this race very comfortably.

Jack Aitken came in cold at Williams and was a scruffy last corner away from outqualifying Latifi. Does that render Russell's qualifying achievements all season moot? Of course not.

Huh? Make a good comparison atleast if you want to... Russel has annihilated Latifi unlike Bottas who regularly runs Mr. Fake 7 time champ close most of the times

Within hours you ridicule Bottas for saying he lost to Hamilton by fine margins and then state he regularly runs him close. Which one is it?

He runs Hamilton close in quali - not so much races when the points are handed out..he is an AVERAGE race driver at best

schumilegend wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:28 am

Huh? Make a good comparison atleast if you want to... Russel has annihilated Latifi unlike Bottas who regularly runs Mr. Fake 7 time champ close most of the times

I'd have to say it's pretty ironic for someone with your profile name to call a seven-time WDC a fake just because he wins with the best car and a second-tier teammate...

Exediron wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:22 am

schumilegend wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:28 am

Huh? Make a good comparison atleast if you want to... Russel has annihilated Latifi unlike Bottas who regularly runs Mr. Fake 7 time champ close most of the times

I'd have to say it's pretty ironic for someone with your profile name to call a seven-time WDC a fake just because he wins with the best car and a second-tier teammate...

Umm show me how Ferrari is anywhere near as dominant as the Mercedes and also let's see how many races the ferrari had an advantage vs the Mercedes and also how many front row starts the Ferrari had...Barrichello was a respectable driver of high caliber not a muppet like Bottas..Barrichello even beat Button and ran him close...plz don't make stupid comparisons

Exediron wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:22 am

schumilegend wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:28 am

Huh? Make a good comparison atleast if you want to... Russel has annihilated Latifi unlike Bottas who regularly runs Mr. Fake 7 time champ close most of the times

I'd have to say it's pretty ironic for someone with your profile name to call a seven-time WDC a fake just because he wins with the best car and a second-tier teammate...

I've just realised why someone who has been on the site for 8 years but has only 300 posts is now posting like a banshee calling Hamilton a fake 7 time champion, a Schumacher fan who has just seen him being replaced by Hamilton as the most successful driver ever in F1.

schumilegend wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:02 am

Exediron wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:22 am

schumilegend wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:28 am

Huh? Make a good comparison atleast if you want to... Russel has annihilated Latifi unlike Bottas who regularly runs Mr. Fake 7 time champ close most of the times

I'd have to say it's pretty ironic for someone with your profile name to call a seven-time WDC a fake just because he wins with the best car and a second-tier teammate...

Umm show me how Ferrari is anywhere near as dominant as the Mercedes and also let's see how many races the ferrari had an advantage vs the Mercedes and also how many front row starts the Ferrari had...Barrichello was a respectable driver of high caliber not a muppet like Bottas..Barrichello even beat Button and ran him close...plz don't make stupid comparisons

When it counted Button beat Barrichello with 6 wins to the 2 wins of Barrichello, Barrichello didn't even finish 2nd in the WDC he finished 3rd. Similar to what Hakkinen use to do to DC, it was close until they got a WDC capable car then Hakkinen beat DC hands down.

pokerman wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:16 am

Exediron wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:22 am

schumilegend wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:28 am

Huh? Make a good comparison atleast if you want to... Russel has annihilated Latifi unlike Bottas who regularly runs Mr. Fake 7 time champ close most of the times

I'd have to say it's pretty ironic for someone with your profile name to call a seven-time WDC a fake just because he wins with the best car and a second-tier teammate...

I've just realised why someone who has been on the site for 8 years but has only 300 posts is now posting like a banshee calling Hamilton a fake 7 time champion, a Schumacher fan who has just seen him being replaced by Hamilton as the most successful driver ever in F1.

Wow took you a while there champ...I was kinda worried..glad you finally got it!

pokerman wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:22 am

schumilegend wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:02 am

Exediron wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:22 am

schumilegend wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:28 am

Huh? Make a good comparison atleast if you want to... Russel has annihilated Latifi unlike Bottas who regularly runs Mr. Fake 7 time champ close most of the times

I'd have to say it's pretty ironic for someone with your profile name to call a seven-time WDC a fake just because he wins with the best car and a second-tier teammate...

Umm show me how Ferrari is anywhere near as dominant as the Mercedes and also let's see how many races the ferrari had an advantage vs the Mercedes and also how many front row starts the Ferrari had...Barrichello was a respectable driver of high caliber not a muppet like Bottas..Barrichello even beat Button and ran him close...plz don't make stupid comparisons

When it counted Button beat Barrichello with 6 wins to the 2 wins of Barrichello, Barrichello didn't even finish 2nd in the WDC he finished 3rd. Similar to what Hakkinen use to do to DC, it was close until they got a WDC capable car then Hakkinen beat DC hands down.

Ya wonder how Button would have fared against a peak Rubens..Clearly you don't believe Rubens of early Ferarri was the same in Honda? Even then he beat Button and wasn't an embarrassment like Valterri

schumilegend wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:34 am

Even then he beat Button and wasn't an embarrassment like Valterri

I'm kinda tempted to do a Barichello vs. Bottas comparison now, because I really don't feel Bottas has been that much worse.

pokerman wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:16 am

Exediron wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:22 am

schumilegend wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:28 am

Huh? Make a good comparison atleast if you want to... Russel has annihilated Latifi unlike Bottas who regularly runs Mr. Fake 7 time champ close most of the times

I'd have to say it's pretty ironic for someone with your profile name to call a seven-time WDC a fake just because he wins with the best car and a second-tier teammate...

I've just realised why someone who has been on the site for 8 years but has only 300 posts is now posting like a banshee calling Hamilton a fake 7 time champion, a Schumacher fan who has just seen him being replaced by Hamilton as the most successful driver ever in F1.

Bingo. It wouldn't surprise me if he was one of those that thinks the 1997 Villeneuve clash was actually entirely Jacques fault and that Schumacher made a genuine error on his Monaco 2006 qualifying lap.

Exediron wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:13 am

schumilegend wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:34 am

Even then he beat Button and wasn't an embarrassment like Valterri

I'm kinda tempted to do a Barichello vs. Bottas comparison now, because I really don't feel Bottas has been that much worse.

Pretty similar normal level I'd say. Maybe with Barrichello slightly ahead. The main difference I think is that Barrichello could put in the occasional exceptional performance that Bottas can only dream about in his dizziest day dreams.

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:36 am

Exediron wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:13 am

schumilegend wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:34 am

Even then he beat Button and wasn't an embarrassment like Valterri

I'm kinda tempted to do a Barichello vs. Bottas comparison now, because I really don't feel Bottas has been that much worse.

Pretty similar normal level I'd say. Maybe with Barrichello slightly ahead. The main difference I think is that Barrichello could put in the occasional exceptional performance that Bottas can only dream about in his dizziest day dreams.

Barrichello won 11 races out of 102 where he was in title winning machinery watching his teammates Schumacher and later Button pick up 54 wins. Bottas has had I think 78 races in title winning machinery and won 9 while his teammate has won 42. Rubens was runner up just twice in 6 seasons in title winning cars, Bottas twice in four assuming he completes the job this season.

BMWSauber84 wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:18 am

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:36 am

Exediron wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:13 am

schumilegend wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:34 am

Even then he beat Button and wasn't an embarrassment like Valterri

I'm kinda tempted to do a Barichello vs. Bottas comparison now, because I really don't feel Bottas has been that much worse.

Pretty similar normal level I'd say. Maybe with Barrichello slightly ahead. The main difference I think is that Barrichello could put in the occasional exceptional performance that Bottas can only dream about in his dizziest day dreams.

Barrichello won 11 races out of 102 where he was in title winning machinery watching his teammates Schumacher and later Button pick up 54 wins. Bottas has had I think 78 races in title winning machinery and won 9 while his teammate has won 42. Rubens was runner up just twice in 6 seasons in title winning cars, Bottas twice in four assuming he completes the job this season.

Worth noting though that I don't believe Barrichello got the same parity at Ferrari that Bottas gets at Merc and Barrichello also hand absolutely stinking luck. (yes, I know Bottas hasn't enjoyed much luck this year either but he is lucky in the sense that his two closest challengers for 2nd have had even worse luck).

Exediron wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:22 am

schumilegend wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:28 am

Huh? Make a good comparison atleast if you want to... Russel has annihilated Latifi unlike Bottas who regularly runs Mr. Fake 7 time champ close most of the times

I'd have to say it's pretty ironic for someone with your profile name to call a seven-time WDC a fake just because he wins with the best car and a second-tier teammate...

That was some off-weekend for Bottas. I don't expect him to challenge Hamilton every race, but the gulf here was enormous. The Russel incident was unfortunate for both, but what we he doing being passes by a Williams anyway?

DOLOMITE wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:09 am

That was some off-weekend for Bottas. I don't expect him to challenge Hamilton every race, but the gulf here was enormous. The Russel incident was unfortunate for both, but what we he doing being passes by a Williams anyway?

Yes the chasm in quality and skill between Bottas and Hamilton was simply ridiculous, even on a day where Hamilton made a major blunder.

Indeed, what is Bottas doing legitimately battling and defending Williams for position in any race.

He was slow and insipid.

Invade wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:26 am

DOLOMITE wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:09 am

That was some off-weekend for Bottas. I don't expect him to challenge Hamilton every race, but the gulf here was enormous. The Russel incident was unfortunate for both, but what we he doing being passes by a Williams anyway?

Yes the chasm in quality and skill between Bottas and Hamilton was simply ridiculous, even on a day where Hamilton made a major blunder.

Indeed, what is Bottas doing legitimately battling and defending Williams for position in any race.

He was slow and insipid.

TBF it's a pretty standard Bottas in the wet performance.

Invade wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:26 am

DOLOMITE wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:09 am

That was some off-weekend for Bottas. I don't expect him to challenge Hamilton every race, but the gulf here was enormous. The Russel incident was unfortunate for both, but what we he doing being passes by a Williams anyway?

Yes the chasm in quality and skill between Bottas and Hamilton was simply ridiculous, even on a day where Hamilton made a major blunder.

Indeed, what is Bottas doing legitimately battling and defending Williams for position in any race.

He was slow and insipid.

This. I don't think Bottas mark 5.4 is anything better than before, sadly.

Well I think there are obvious reasons for Bottas being bad. He's virtually always poor in wet races. While Russell was due credit for being as high up has he was, it can be argued that the wiliams was likely the 8th or even 7th best car this weekend. Not convinced latifi could have got though to Q2 if that was not the case, so the williams racing against Bottas was not the williams we know from recent years.
Even so, it was more down to the fact that Bottas was bad in the wet. But then if you look back at turkey last year and several other wet races (he made a mess of china 2017 too when it was wet), this is just a weakness for him. He's lucky it doesn't rain more as he usually isn't anywhere near this bad on dry weekends. I think that once the track dried out more later he likely will have finally found some decent pace and managed to recover to around 6th. But that is still obviously poor.

I think even as a fan of bottas i can comfortably say he is among one of the worst drivers on the grid in the wet. Probably the only thing that stops me from saying he is certainly the worst is having several newer drivers about without much evidence and the fact he's had just a few stages in his career where he's looked decent in these conditions.

Mercedes does seem to take longer than others to get its tyres switched on when it's cool / wet. I think that Bottas' problem is that he doesn't go quickly enough / have that confidence to get them into their ideal window.
Note that Hamilton quickly dropped back from Verstappen during the opening stages before holding the gap and started to peg it back towards the end of that first stint. I think that he does get the tyre switched on.
Bottas needs to have a good look at relative telemetry for this (and Turkey!) and work out what he should do differently.

tootsie323 wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:09 pm

Mercedes does seem to take longer than others to get its tyres switched on when it's cool / wet. I think that Bottas' problem is that he doesn't go quickly enough / have that confidence to get them into their ideal window.
Note that Hamilton quickly dropped back from Verstappen during the opening stages before holding the gap and started to peg it back towards the end of that first stint. I think that he does get the tyre switched on.
Bottas needs to have a good look at relative telemetry for this (and Turkey!) and work out what he should do differently.

Yes and then we saw Max wear out his tyres quicker than Hamilton, in the early laps I do wonder how much Hamilton had to adapt to the damage to his car, the grip was probably uneven from left to right.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... w-at-imola

Tells you all what you need to know about Bottas struggles.

F1_Ernie wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:43 pm

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... w-at-imola

Tells you all what you need to know about Bottas struggles.

Well, i now think that now Bottas has suddenly shown at least decent race pace again that it certainly is just his pretty huge weakness in the wet. I still don't think it is quite as obvious with any other driver that they struggle to the extent he does in these conditions. But I feel one reason why Bottas looked very slow is because he tries to keep his car on the road rather than taking more risks and giving it everything.Or maybe he just isn't capable of that.

One thing I still don't understand though is that he looked a fair bit more aggressive when he was at williams and was better at defending then too.

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Tue May 04, 2021 6:27 pm

F1_Ernie wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:43 pm

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... w-at-imola

Tells you all what you need to know about Bottas struggles.

Well, i now think that now Bottas has suddenly shown at least decent race pace again that it certainly is just his pretty huge weakness in the wet. I still don't think it is quite as obvious with any other driver that they struggle to the extent he does in these conditions. But I feel one reason why Bottas looked very slow is because he tries to keep his car on the road rather than taking more risks and giving it everything.Or maybe he just isn't capable of that.

One thing I still don't understand though is that he looked a fair bit more aggressive when he was at williams and was better at defending then too.

I can't remember his Williams days, but the defence against Hamilton in the last race in Portugal was just shambles, no idea what he was doing at that part of the track...

Siao7 wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 6:56 am

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Tue May 04, 2021 6:27 pm

F1_Ernie wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:43 pm

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... w-at-imola

Tells you all what you need to know about Bottas struggles.

Well, i now think that now Bottas has suddenly shown at least decent race pace again that it certainly is just his pretty huge weakness in the wet. I still don't think it is quite as obvious with any other driver that they struggle to the extent he does in these conditions. But I feel one reason why Bottas looked very slow is because he tries to keep his car on the road rather than taking more risks and giving it everything.Or maybe he just isn't capable of that.

One thing I still don't understand though is that he looked a fair bit more aggressive when he was at williams and was better at defending then too.

I can't remember his Williams days, but the defence against Hamilton in the last race in Portugal was just shambles, no idea what he was doing at that part of the track...

His defence against Verstappen was worse. He had every opportunity to defend from that but chose not to.

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 7:32 am

Siao7 wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 6:56 am

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Tue May 04, 2021 6:27 pm

F1_Ernie wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:43 pm

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... w-at-imola

Tells you all what you need to know about Bottas struggles.

Well, i now think that now Bottas has suddenly shown at least decent race pace again that it certainly is just his pretty huge weakness in the wet. I still don't think it is quite as obvious with any other driver that they struggle to the extent he does in these conditions. But I feel one reason why Bottas looked very slow is because he tries to keep his car on the road rather than taking more risks and giving it everything.Or maybe he just isn't capable of that.

One thing I still don't understand though is that he looked a fair bit more aggressive when he was at williams and was better at defending then too.

I can't remember his Williams days, but the defence against Hamilton in the last race in Portugal was just shambles, no idea what he was doing at that part of the track...

His defence against Verstappen was worse. He had every opportunity to defend from that but chose not to.

It's not the first time. I remember in Austria 2019, he practically moved aside to let Verstappen through for position. I remember at the time thinking that Charles was safe because it would take at least a lap or two for Max to overtake a Mercedes, but it didn't even slow him down.

Exediron wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 7:38 am

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 7:32 am

Siao7 wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 6:56 am

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Tue May 04, 2021 6:27 pm

F1_Ernie wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:43 pm

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... w-at-imola

Tells you all what you need to know about Bottas struggles.

Well, i now think that now Bottas has suddenly shown at least decent race pace again that it certainly is just his pretty huge weakness in the wet. I still don't think it is quite as obvious with any other driver that they struggle to the extent he does in these conditions. But I feel one reason why Bottas looked very slow is because he tries to keep his car on the road rather than taking more risks and giving it everything.Or maybe he just isn't capable of that.

One thing I still don't understand though is that he looked a fair bit more aggressive when he was at williams and was better at defending then too.

I can't remember his Williams days, but the defence against Hamilton in the last race in Portugal was just shambles, no idea what he was doing at that part of the track...

His defence against Verstappen was worse. He had every opportunity to defend from that but chose not to.

It's not the first time. I remember in Austria 2019, he practically moved aside to let Verstappen through for position. I remember at the time thinking that Charles was safe because it would take at least a lap or two for Max to overtake a Mercedes, but it didn't even slow him down.

I need to watch the Max defences again I think. But maybe he's afraid of contact? I can't think of anything else for this gutless showcase

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9-8gvYantk

If Bottas moves left at around 4:42 and defends the inside I don't think Verstappen gets round on the outside.

Exediron wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 7:38 am

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 7:32 am

Siao7 wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 6:56 am

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Tue May 04, 2021 6:27 pm

F1_Ernie wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:43 pm

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... w-at-imola

Tells you all what you need to know about Bottas struggles.

Well, i now think that now Bottas has suddenly shown at least decent race pace again that it certainly is just his pretty huge weakness in the wet. I still don't think it is quite as obvious with any other driver that they struggle to the extent he does in these conditions. But I feel one reason why Bottas looked very slow is because he tries to keep his car on the road rather than taking more risks and giving it everything.Or maybe he just isn't capable of that.

One thing I still don't understand though is that he looked a fair bit more aggressive when he was at williams and was better at defending then too.

I can't remember his Williams days, but the defence against Hamilton in the last race in Portugal was just shambles, no idea what he was doing at that part of the track...

His defence against Verstappen was worse. He had every opportunity to defend from that but chose not to.

It's not the first time. I remember in Austria 2019, he practically moved aside to let Verstappen through for position. I remember at the time thinking that Charles was safe because it would take at least a lap or two for Max to overtake a Mercedes, but it didn't even slow him down.

This was one that I mentioned at the time that Bottas shouldn't be criticised for if you look at the situation. Both Mercedes had issues that day and Vettel had got past Hamilton and was quickly catching Bottas. If Bottas had wasted any time at all defending Verstappen, He won't have got a podium. At the finish line, vettel was half a second behind him. Bottas threw a way a position quickly that effectively saved him another for the end result by not wasting time defending. May be unusual, but I think it was the right decision this time.

I think one bad example of Bottas's defending can be Britain last year where he was leading Hamilton but he let Verstappen by soon after he pitted.


Brundle and many here are saying that Bottas's defence was weak on Hamilton this last race. If it was, Hamilton's overtake was not "incredible" like many are also implying. If Bottas had defended better, it likely won't have worked out there and then for Hamilton.

I did watch it again and I do not think it was so bad (the Portugal one), compared to the Hamilton one. He had cold tyres coming out of the pits and you could see him struggle. He could have gone left I guess, but at least he didn't do a mistake, he just didn't cover well.

The other one was much worse as he practically brought it on himself. Why chose to go narrow line before the turn, it is just mind-blowing.

Siao7 wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 6:56 am

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Tue May 04, 2021 6:27 pm

F1_Ernie wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:43 pm

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... w-at-imola

Tells you all what you need to know about Bottas struggles.

Well, i now think that now Bottas has suddenly shown at least decent race pace again that it certainly is just his pretty huge weakness in the wet. I still don't think it is quite as obvious with any other driver that they struggle to the extent he does in these conditions. But I feel one reason why Bottas looked very slow is because he tries to keep his car on the road rather than taking more risks and giving it everything.Or maybe he just isn't capable of that.

One thing I still don't understand though is that he looked a fair bit more aggressive when he was at williams and was better at defending then too.

I can't remember his Williams days, but the defence against Hamilton in the last race in Portugal was just shambles, no idea what he was doing at that part of the track...

I think I've possibly mentioned it a few times in this thread. But at Williams, He had many races in 2015 and 2016 where he managed to keep a faster Ferrari behind him, often almost for an entire stint without panicking or breaking under pressure. Unless the tyres are simply worse than they used to be, or maybe they just suited him better then, but he used to be more similar to how Perez is now at looking after his tyres and going for more risky strategies. He managed to make them work in races like Canada 2016 and beat both red Bulls to the podium that were clearly faster than him.
Maybe it could be that hamilton is sort of breaking his confidence.

The issue with Bottas is actually his consistency which i thought used to be a strength. He sometimes does good defending still and is nice and aggressive even against Hamilton right at the start of the races at times. Palmer mentioned this in Russia last year and quite a few other occasions - as well of mentioning the lack of aggression in other instances. Maybe he struggles to be confident enough of the time to consistently be aggressive.

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 8:23 am

Exediron wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 7:38 am

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 7:32 am

Siao7 wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 6:56 am

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Tue May 04, 2021 6:27 pm

Well, i now think that now Bottas has suddenly shown at least decent race pace again that it certainly is just his pretty huge weakness in the wet. I still don't think it is quite as obvious with any other driver that they struggle to the extent he does in these conditions. But I feel one reason why Bottas looked very slow is because he tries to keep his car on the road rather than taking more risks and giving it everything.Or maybe he just isn't capable of that.

One thing I still don't understand though is that he looked a fair bit more aggressive when he was at williams and was better at defending then too.

I can't remember his Williams days, but the defence against Hamilton in the last race in Portugal was just shambles, no idea what he was doing at that part of the track...

His defence against Verstappen was worse. He had every opportunity to defend from that but chose not to.

It's not the first time. I remember in Austria 2019, he practically moved aside to let Verstappen through for position. I remember at the time thinking that Charles was safe because it would take at least a lap or two for Max to overtake a Mercedes, but it didn't even slow him down.

This was one that I mentioned at the time that Bottas shouldn't be criticised for if you look at the situation. Both Mercedes had issues that day and Vettel had got past Hamilton and was quickly catching Bottas. If Bottas had wasted any time at all defending Verstappen, He won't have got a podium. At the finish line, vettel was half a second behind him. Bottas threw a way a position quickly that effectively saved him another for the end result by not wasting time defending. May be unusual, but I think it was the right decision this time.

I think one bad example of Bottas's defending can be Britain last year where he was leading Hamilton but he let Verstappen by soon after he pitted.


Brundle and many here are saying that Bottas's defence was weak on Hamilton this last race. If it was, Hamilton's overtake was not "incredible" like many are also implying. If Bottas had defended better, it likely won't have worked out there and then for Hamilton.

I'm not sure that Bottas had all of that thought process in his mind when letting Max overtake in the Ring, and Max had power issues himself.

Of course Hamilton's overtake wasn't "incredible" in Portugal, Bottas put himself in an incredibly silly position on the track and Hamilton just said "thank you, I'll have that". Nothing incredible, though to his credit, it was a matter of time as Hamilton was much faster than Bottas at that point.

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 8:29 am

Siao7 wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 6:56 am

TheGiantHogweed wrote: ↑

Tue May 04, 2021 6:27 pm

F1_Ernie wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:43 pm

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... w-at-imola

Tells you all what you need to know about Bottas struggles.

Well, i now think that now Bottas has suddenly shown at least decent race pace again that it certainly is just his pretty huge weakness in the wet. I still don't think it is quite as obvious with any other driver that they struggle to the extent he does in these conditions. But I feel one reason why Bottas looked very slow is because he tries to keep his car on the road rather than taking more risks and giving it everything.Or maybe he just isn't capable of that.

One thing I still don't understand though is that he looked a fair bit more aggressive when he was at williams and was better at defending then too.

I can't remember his Williams days, but the defence against Hamilton in the last race in Portugal was just shambles, no idea what he was doing at that part of the track...

I think I've possibly mentioned it a few times in this thread. But at Williams, He had many races in 2015 and 2016 where he managed to keep a faster Ferrari behind him, often almost for an entire stint without panicking or breaking under pressure. Unless the tyres are simply worse than they used to be, or maybe they just suited him better then, but he used to be more similar to how Perez is now at looking after his tyres and going for more risky strategies. He managed to make them work in races like Canada 2016 and beat both red Bulls to the podium that were clearly faster than him.
Maybe it could be that hamilton is sort of breaking his confidence.

The issue with Bottas is actually his consistency which i thought used to be a strength. He sometimes does good defending still and is nice and aggressive even against Hamilton right at the start of the races at times. Palmer mentioned this in Russia last year and quite a few other occasions - as well of mentioning the lack of aggression in other instances. Maybe he struggles to be confident enough of the time to consistently be aggressive.

Yeah, this makes sense. Consistency is what makes separates the truly greats in this sport, we see Alonso, Hamilton and the other top fliers to bring home results even on a bad day, so if he really wants to progress and be taken seriously, he needs to address this, pronto. Otherwise he is just another Webber/Barrichello/Ralf type of driver, awesome in his day, a few times a year...

i don't understand the constant bad mouthing of bottas. as a fan, would we all have liked vettel, or the last few seasons Verstappen, in the other merc, to see how those battles would go ? of course.

wolf has made it clear over and over that the last two season with Hamilton and rosberg where terrible for the team moral. (tension/arguments)

bottas does what he is hired to do, merc keep winning the constructor's championship. all good for them

pc27b wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 11:58 am

i don't understand the constant bad mouthing of bottas. as a fan, would we all have liked vettel, or the last few seasons Verstappen, in the other merc, to see how those battles would go ? of course.

wolf has made it clear over and over that the last two season with Hamilton and rosberg where terrible for the team moral. (tension/arguments)

bottas does what he is hired to do, merc keep winning the constructor's championship. all good for them

I don't think it is a constant bad mouthing of him, this last conversation was over a couple of mistakes that he indeed did in the last race.

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 8:16 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9-8gvYantk

If Bottas moves left at around 4:42 and defends the inside I don't think Verstappen gets round on the outside.

It would certainly have made it alot more difficult for Max and I dont think Max would have gone past Bottas there. I reckon the one thing that really frustrates Mercedes is the lack of fight, Bottas is getting the points for the WCC but he needs to take points of Max too. We know Bottas tyres was not upto temperature but at least make life as hard as possible, I can never imagine Bottas would push Verstappen wide and make it difficult, Max just arrives and drives past.

pc27b wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 11:58 am

i don't understand the constant bad mouthing of bottas. as a fan, would we all have liked vettel, or the last few seasons Verstappen, in the other merc, to see how those battles would go ? of course.

wolf has made it clear over and over that the last two season with Hamilton and rosberg where terrible for the team moral. (tension/arguments)

bottas does what he is hired to do, merc keep winning the constructor's championship. all good for them

Also he keeps beating Perez, I must be missing something beyond seemingly his inability to beat Hamilton as often as some would like, against Max he was on cold tyres and Max also had DRS, let's not mention the slow Mercedes pitstop relative to Red Bull.

I seem to recall a driving error from Max which enabled Hamilton an easy pass, where's the roast on that one?

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 2:38 pm

pc27b wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 11:58 am

i don't understand the constant bad mouthing of bottas. as a fan, would we all have liked vettel, or the last few seasons Verstappen, in the other merc, to see how those battles would go ? of course.

wolf has made it clear over and over that the last two season with Hamilton and rosberg where terrible for the team moral. (tension/arguments)

bottas does what he is hired to do, merc keep winning the constructor's championship. all good for them

Also he keeps beating Perez, I must be missing something beyond seemingly his inability to beat Hamilton as often as some would like, against Max he was on cold tyres and Max also had DRS, let's not mention the slow Mercedes pitstop relative to Red Bull.

I seem to recall a driving error from Max which enabled Hamilton an easy pass, where's the roast on that one?

Verstappen only got alongside Bottas. Had Bottas defended the inside he keeps the place DRS or not. It's being commented on because this is a constant issue with Bottas.

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 3:55 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 2:38 pm

pc27b wrote: ↑

Wed May 05, 2021 11:58 am

i don't understand the constant bad mouthing of bottas. as a fan, would we all have liked vettel, or the last few seasons Verstappen, in the other merc, to see how those battles would go ? of course.

wolf has made it clear over and over that the last two season with Hamilton and rosberg where terrible for the team moral. (tension/arguments)

bottas does what he is hired to do, merc keep winning the constructor's championship. all good for them

Also he keeps beating Perez, I must be missing something beyond seemingly his inability to beat Hamilton as often as some would like, against Max he was on cold tyres and Max also had DRS, let's not mention the slow Mercedes pitstop relative to Red Bull.

I seem to recall a driving error from Max which enabled Hamilton an easy pass, where's the roast on that one?

Verstappen only got alongside Bottas. Had Bottas defended the inside he keeps the place DRS or not. It's being commented on because this is a constant issue with Bottas.

Both passes are being discussed though, Hamilton's pass on Bottas was not outstanding it was just a rubbish defence from Bottas, well Hamilton had a lot easier pass on Max because of his driving error, I daresay if that had been Bottas that would be Bottas bottling it and why didn't he cover the inside line.