BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

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diego
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BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by diego »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19874880

You agree with this? I thought he would be 3rd myself after Schumi and Fangio, but I guess you have to have Senna and Clark in there. Your thoughts?!
Last edited by diego on Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by diego »

Actually, I think Fangio should be ahead of Senna but Clark ahead of Prost?! I am curious how Murray will justify his choice.

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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by Fiki »

Thanks for posting this, I had lost sight of the BBC's articles.

Ranking the greatest drivers is always a difficult exercise, but since you ask, I don't think I can agree with Prost being "only" number 5. The article fails to mention how driving alongside Niki Lauda may have refined his own driving, and perhaps the way in which he handled the dangerous aspects of their trade. Afterwards, when being paired with Senna, he made frequent mention of the way in which the Brazilian was taking risks.
I regret not having seen Fangio race, or Jim Clark. I wonder how I would have thought about them if I had. Fangio stopped when I was born, and though Clark was the driver who was always in the news as l learned to read, it is hard to make up my mind about these two.

In my mind, Fangio, Clark and Prost are all together in 1st place, and I end up with a kind of tier ranking. Senna comes very close to joining them, he was the fastest driver I ever saw in action myself. But Prost was the better, the ultimate Grand Prix driver. Prost never forgot that they were sportsmen, and that there was a table to slide ones legs under in the evening.

Prost also understood fair play. What a pity that has now been forgotten, as driver safety made it possible to survive even the most ludicrous crashes, caused accidentally, or on purpose. That is why I have great difficulty in classifying Senna and Schumacher. But what is clear is that both these drivers come after Prost. Well after Prost.
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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by diego »

Fiki wrote:Thanks for posting this, I had lost sight of the BBC's articles.

Ranking the greatest drivers is always a difficult exercise, but since you ask, I don't think I can agree with Prost being "only" number 5. The article fails to mention how driving alongside Niki Lauda may have refined his own driving, and perhaps the way in which he handled the dangerous aspects of their trade. Afterwards, when being paired with Senna, he made frequent mention of the way in which the Brazilian was taking risks.
I regret not having seen Fangio race, or Jim Clark. I wonder how I would have thought about them if I had. Fangio stopped when I was born, and though Clark was the driver who was always in the news as l learned to read, it is hard to make up my mind about these two.

In my mind, Fangio, Clark and Prost are all together in 1st place, and I end up with a kind of tier ranking. Senna comes very close to joining them, he was the fastest driver I ever saw in action myself. But Prost was the better, the ultimate Grand Prix driver. Prost never forgot that they were sportsmen, and that there was a table to slide ones legs under in the evening.

Prost also understood fair play. What a pity that has now been forgotten, as driver safety made it possible to survive even the most ludicrous crashes, caused accidentally, or on purpose. That is why I have great difficulty in classifying Senna and Schumacher. But what is clear is that both these drivers come after Prost. Well after Prost.

But surely you must put Schumacher in the top 3 SOLELY on the basis he has more championships than any other driver ever and with 2 different teams.

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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by froze »

diego wrote:Actually, I think Fangio should be ahead of Senna but Clark ahead of Prost?! I am curious how Murray will justify his choice.

Probably with a Union Jack.
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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by diego »

froze wrote:
diego wrote:Actually, I think Fangio should be ahead of Senna but Clark ahead of Prost?! I am curious how Murray will justify his choice.

Probably with a Union Jack.

If that is the case he would've placed Hamilton higher than 15.

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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by BrazilLastCorner2008 »

Fiki wrote:Thanks for posting this, I had lost sight of the BBC's articles.

Ranking the greatest drivers is always a difficult exercise, but since you ask, I don't think I can agree with Prost being "only" number 5. The article fails to mention how driving alongside Niki Lauda may have refined his own driving, and perhaps the way in which he handled the dangerous aspects of their trade. Afterwards, when being paired with Senna, he made frequent mention of the way in which the Brazilian was taking risks.
I regret not having seen Fangio race, or Jim Clark. I wonder how I would have thought about them if I had. Fangio stopped when I was born, and though Clark was the driver who was always in the news as l learned to read, it is hard to make up my mind about these two.

In my mind, Fangio, Clark and Prost are all together in 1st place, and I end up with a kind of tier ranking. Senna comes very close to joining them, he was the fastest driver I ever saw in action myself. But Prost was the better, the ultimate Grand Prix driver. Prost never forgot that they were sportsmen, and that there was a table to slide ones legs under in the evening.

Prost also understood fair play. What a pity that has now been forgotten, as driver safety made it possible to survive even the most ludicrous crashes, caused accidentally, or on purpose. That is why I have great difficulty in classifying Senna and Schumacher. But what is clear is that both these drivers come after Prost. Well after Prost.


Didn't look like he was understanding fair play when he turned into Senna in Suzuka 89
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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by diego »

BrazilLastCorner2008 wrote:
Fiki wrote:Thanks for posting this, I had lost sight of the BBC's articles.

Ranking the greatest drivers is always a difficult exercise, but since you ask, I don't think I can agree with Prost being "only" number 5. The article fails to mention how driving alongside Niki Lauda may have refined his own driving, and perhaps the way in which he handled the dangerous aspects of their trade. Afterwards, when being paired with Senna, he made frequent mention of the way in which the Brazilian was taking risks.
I regret not having seen Fangio race, or Jim Clark. I wonder how I would have thought about them if I had. Fangio stopped when I was born, and though Clark was the driver who was always in the news as l learned to read, it is hard to make up my mind about these two.

In my mind, Fangio, Clark and Prost are all together in 1st place, and I end up with a kind of tier ranking. Senna comes very close to joining them, he was the fastest driver I ever saw in action myself. But Prost was the better, the ultimate Grand Prix driver. Prost never forgot that they were sportsmen, and that there was a table to slide ones legs under in the evening.

Prost also understood fair play. What a pity that has now been forgotten, as driver safety made it possible to survive even the most ludicrous crashes, caused accidentally, or on purpose. That is why I have great difficulty in classifying Senna and Schumacher. But what is clear is that both these drivers come after Prost. Well after Prost.


Didn't look like he was understanding fair play when he turned into Senna in Suzuka 89

I think by that point Prost was fed up of Senna's year long antics and said the heck with it i am plowing into him if he wants to be that way.

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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by Jenson's Understeer »

diego wrote:
froze wrote:
diego wrote:Actually, I think Fangio should be ahead of Senna but Clark ahead of Prost?! I am curious how Murray will justify his choice.

Probably with a Union Jack.

If that is the case he would've placed Hamilton higher than 15.


To be fair, Lewis has no business being named the 15th greatest F1 driver in the first place. Maybe he will by the end of his career, but not now.

Anyways, I've always felt it's very difficult to draw comparisons between Fangio's era and the more modern era of F1. It obviously doesn't help that I've had so little exposure to Fangio in action, whereas someone like Murray Walker has, but it just seems like F1/the sport in general has evolved so much since the 50s/60s... I don't know. Comparing footballers from different eras, for example, seems a lot easier than F1 drivers. And even then, just ranking Senna/Schumi/Prost is no easy task. Especially since Senna's career was cut short...
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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by F1nsider »

I think the greatest drivers lists should be segregated into decades or eras

It's not fair to compare those who have literally risked their lives in every single corner they did in their careers to today's drivers. I would say all the drivers from the 50's, 60's, and 70's who survived and who have died are all greater than any driver came later

My 2c

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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by Siao7 »

F1nsider wrote:I think the greatest drivers lists should be segregated into decades or eras

It's not fair to compare those who have literally risked their lives in every single corner they did in their careers to today's drivers. I would say all the drivers from the 50's, 60's, and 70's who survived and who have died are all greater than any driver came later

My 2c


Let's see, so in your opinion Kazuyoshi Hoshino is greater than Alonso, Hakkinen and Schumacher.

I see

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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by F1nsider »

SchumieRules wrote:
F1nsider wrote:I think the greatest drivers lists should be segregated into decades or eras

It's not fair to compare those who have literally risked their lives in every single corner they did in their careers to today's drivers. I would say all the drivers from the 50's, 60's, and 70's who survived and who have died are all greater than any driver came later

My 2c


Let's see, so in your opinion Kazuyoshi Hoshino is greater than Alonso, Hakkinen and Schumacher.

I see


I don't even know who that is, but I just read this about him

Hoshino participated in two Formula One Grands Prix, debuting on 24 October 1976 at the Japanese Grand Prix.[3] Driving a Tyrrell-Ford for Heros Racing, he retired having used up his tyre supply. He returned in 1977 and once again entered the Japanese Grand Prix driving for Heros Racing. He finished in eleventh place driving a year-old Kojima-Ford.[4] He scored no championship points in his Formula 1 career.[5]


That's an amazing achievement I would say

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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by Siao7 »

F1nsider wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
F1nsider wrote:I think the greatest drivers lists should be segregated into decades or eras

It's not fair to compare those who have literally risked their lives in every single corner they did in their careers to today's drivers. I would say all the drivers from the 50's, 60's, and 70's who survived and who have died are all greater than any driver came later

My 2c


Let's see, so in your opinion Kazuyoshi Hoshino is greater than Alonso, Hakkinen and Schumacher.

I see


I don't even know who that is, but I just read this about him

Hoshino participated in two Formula One Grands Prix, debuting on 24 October 1976 at the Japanese Grand Prix.[3] Driving a Tyrrell-Ford for Heros Racing, he retired having used up his tyre supply. He returned in 1977 and once again entered the Japanese Grand Prix driving for Heros Racing. He finished in eleventh place driving a year-old Kojima-Ford.[4] He scored no championship points in his Formula 1 career.[5]


That's an amazing achievement I would say


True, almost on par with the above mentioned 11 WDC's...

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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by Fiki »

diego wrote:But surely you must put Schumacher in the top 3 SOLELY on the basis he has more championships than any other driver ever and with 2 different teams.

On what grounds?

I do put him in the top three, but not of Grand Prix drivers. Fangio has 5 championships, Prost has 4. What is so fantastic about having one more under the circumstances under which he raced?
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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by Lt. Drebin »

Number 5, it means he is a bit undervalued and underestimated. Also, it's quite hard to compare drivers of the different era. He is surely on pair with Senna, and perhaps there are only minor differences between them, not related to their achievements.

It would be more fair to name top 5 or top 10 drivers of all time in ABC, not putting one above or under other. And than second group of drivers.
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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by Fiki »

F1nsider wrote:It's not fair to compare those who have literally risked their lives in every single corner they did in their careers to today's drivers.
Without meaning the least disrespect, I think it is wrong to believe they risked their lives every single corner. It is precisely why Fangio never drove again like he had to at the Nürburgring in '57. You would simply not survive if you did.
There was a good reason why there was such a thing as the GPDA; simply because those drivers did not want to risk their lives every corner.

diego wrote:I think by that point Prost was fed up of Senna's year long antics and said the heck with it i am plowing into him if he wants to be that way.
I think so too.
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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by F1nsider »

SchumieRules wrote:
True, almost on par with the above mentioned 11 WDC's...


You don't have to be so literal!

So many things should be taken into consideration. I'm just saying that it's not apples vs apples. Plus, we haven't lived those years so we don't really know all the circumstances

If it was simply comparing statistics then we shouldn't bother now right?

I think it would be more fair to compare each era by itself.

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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by Siao7 »

F1nsider wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
True, almost on par with the above mentioned 11 WDC's...


You don't have to be so literal!

So many things should be taken into consideration. I'm just saying that it's not apples vs apples. Plus, we haven't lived those years so we don't really know all the circumstances

If it was simply comparing statistics then we shouldn't bother now right?

I think it would be more fair to compare each era by itself.


Apologies, I was probably too sarcastic there. But this is an old argument. The older drivers were men and the newbies are crybabies.

Well it's not like that. Things move on, else they'd still driver coffins with 4 wheels and short-sleeve polo's in every gp... It's not Raikkonen's fault that he wasn't born in the 40's. Does this make him a wimp?

The thing is that as you said, it is not a real straight comparison between different eras, as the tracks may be similar, but the cars were not. The only real yardstick for me is how they stood against their opposition, what kind of dominance did they have.

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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by mcdo »

Shenanigans!

For shame Murray, for shame.
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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by Zoue »

diego wrote:Actually, I think Fangio should be ahead of Senna but Clark ahead of Prost?! I am curious how Murray will justify his choice.

It's not Murray, it's the BBC team. Murray just fronts it.

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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by F1nsider »

SchumieRules wrote:
F1nsider wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
True, almost on par with the above mentioned 11 WDC's...


You don't have to be so literal!

So many things should be taken into consideration. I'm just saying that it's not apples vs apples. Plus, we haven't lived those years so we don't really know all the circumstances

If it was simply comparing statistics then we shouldn't bother now right?

I think it would be more fair to compare each era by itself.


Apologies, I was probably too sarcastic there. But this is an old argument. The older drivers were men and the newbies are crybabies.

Well it's not like that. Things move on, else they'd still driver coffins with 4 wheels and short-sleeve polo's in every gp... It's not Raikkonen's fault that he wasn't born in the 40's. Does this make him a wimp?

The thing is that as you said, it is not a real straight comparison between different eras, as the tracks may be similar, but the cars were not. The only real yardstick for me is how they stood against their opposition, what kind of dominance did they have.


No worries :)

Just to show how subjective it is. Going by the underlined, was Schumacher that great then? he simply had the best car for his last 5 WDCs, so many drivers would've been able to achieve what he did if they had the same car. Mika, Kimi and Alonso just to name a few

Anyway, I don't want to derail the thread any further. :)

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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by flyboy10 »

For me, he's up there deservedly. He's always been the name I'd throw in if anyone has claims that either Schumacher or Senna should be at the number one spot. Like Murray Walker, I consider Prost's time to be my time. His career is inside the window of my most enthusiastic following of F1 and is one of the first F1 drivers I ever met, face to face and who was always willing to sign an autograph.

I have huge respect for Prost and if it were measured on that alone, he'd be my number 1 driver of all time. If it's done on stats, he's up there on race wins and strike rate with the best of them.

I think number 5 might be too low but I don't understand the Jim Clark phenomenon as I didn't live through any of his time with us and I think Schumacher has had a career of grossly over-rated success on the track.

I think Senna and Prost are my top two. Ayrton closely matched Schumacher in their respective first ten years in F1 and almost certainly had more championships left in him.

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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by Siao7 »

F1nsider wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
F1nsider wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
True, almost on par with the above mentioned 11 WDC's...


You don't have to be so literal!

So many things should be taken into consideration. I'm just saying that it's not apples vs apples. Plus, we haven't lived those years so we don't really know all the circumstances

If it was simply comparing statistics then we shouldn't bother now right?

I think it would be more fair to compare each era by itself.


Apologies, I was probably too sarcastic there. But this is an old argument. The older drivers were men and the newbies are crybabies.

Well it's not like that. Things move on, else they'd still driver coffins with 4 wheels and short-sleeve polo's in every gp... It's not Raikkonen's fault that he wasn't born in the 40's. Does this make him a wimp?

The thing is that as you said, it is not a real straight comparison between different eras, as the tracks may be similar, but the cars were not. The only real yardstick for me is how they stood against their opposition, what kind of dominance did they have.


No worries :)

Just to show how subjective it is. Going by the underlined, was Schumacher that great then? he simply had the best car for his last 5 WDCs, so many drivers would've been able to achieve what he did if they had the same car. Mika, Kimi and Alonso just to name a few

Anyway, I don't want to derail the thread any further. :)


But he didn't, 2000 and 2003 he did not have the best car overall. In my opinion anyway.

But I agree, this is not the thread!

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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by MistaVega23 »

Strangely, I rank Prost better than Senna.

Senna was quick, yes, but not an all-rounder like Prost.

I agree with the above posts, though, in that each driver should only be compared in their respective eras. We will NEVER know how well Fangio would've fared against Schumacher or Prost versus Clark. I don't know why these established names in F1 keep submitting their lists as nobody agrees with them!
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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by Schumi4ever »

Its a pointless exercise. Whatever criteria you choose, it will always be skewed because you are comparing eras. Other than creating a whole lot of debate, most of which will be based on "ifs", the greatest drivers list does nothing.

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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by diego »

So what constitutes an era? By the decade they drive in? If that's the case, then surely Schumacher can be compared to Senna and Prost.

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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by mcdo »

MistaVega23 wrote:Strangely, I rank Prost better than Senna.

Senna was quick, yes, but not an all-rounder like Prost.

My thoughts exactly.

Oddly enough it was the Senna movie that confirmed it for me.
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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by apologist »

SchumieRules wrote:
But he didn't, 2000 and 2003 he did not have the best car overall. In my opinion anyway.

But I agree, this is not the thread!


Sorry. How is this even possible? In 16 races, Ferrari had 8 pole positions, 8 fastest laps & 8 race wins. Williams probably had the best car before the tyre rule change, but over the span of the whole season Ferrari had the best car.

On topic: F1 is not a spec series and due (in part) to the commercial aspects, politics always existed in the sport. So there is no conclusive way of picking the best driver even within contemporaries.
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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by Siao7 »

apologist wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
But he didn't, 2000 and 2003 he did not have the best car overall. In my opinion anyway.

But I agree, this is not the thread!


Sorry. How is this even possible? In 16 races, Ferrari had 8 pole positions, 8 fastest laps & 8 race wins. Williams probably had the best car before the tyre rule change, but over the span of the whole season Ferrari had the best car.

On topic: F1 is not a spec series and due (in part) to the commercial aspects, politics always existed in the sport. So there is no conclusive way of picking the best driver even within contemporaries.


As I said, my opinion. Schumacher finished 2 points ahead of Kimi and 9 ahead of Montoya. Hardly a dominating car there. As for Williams, even Ralph had 2 wins and a second, that car was good!

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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by mac_d »

I think I'd have rated Prost higher, but the issue always arises of evaluating drivers across generations.

And while I know of Fangio and Clark's achievements, I don't think I've ever really seen them race, so my own bias would probably put people from a more TV friendly generation ahead.

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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by apologist »

SchumieRules wrote:
As I said, my opinion.


OK.
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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by mcdo »

mac_d wrote:I think I'd have rated Prost higher, but the issue always arises of evaluating drivers across generations.

And while I know of Fangio and Clark's achievements, I don't think I've ever really seen them race, so my own bias would probably put people from a more TV friendly generation ahead.

I enjoyed this documentary on Jim Clark:
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgVSLXobwy0
(All parts can be found on Youtube)

I learnt quite a bit about the man. Although I held him in high regard, my estimation of him rose further after watching this.

edit: WOOHOO 1000th post! I'm glad I used it well.
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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by Donington93 »

I have Prost 3rd, behind Clark and Senna.

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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by F1nsider »

Sorry for going a bit off topic earlier.

Regarding Senna, I wasn't privileged to follow F1 back in the days, I only started in 1996 and followed every race from 2002. All my friends who have lived and followed that time say that Prost was the better driver. A lot have hated him for the gifted championship and because of his friendship with the FiA head who was French as well.

They all agree now, sorry to say that, that if Senna didn't tragically die, he wouldn't have become the hero everyone talk about now. That Williams didn't win until 1996, and by that time it was a known secret that he was going to sign for Ferrari, just like he ditched McLaren for the faster car (Williams at that point before banning their winning ingredient). And by the time Ferrari became a winning car he would've been too old, also there's no guarantee that under him the Ferrari would be what it was.

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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by Retro-Virus »

Fiki wrote:Thanks for posting this, I had lost sight of the BBC's articles.

Ranking the greatest drivers is always a difficult exercise, but since you ask, I don't think I can agree with Prost being "only" number 5. The article fails to mention how driving alongside Niki Lauda may have refined his own driving, and perhaps the way in which he handled the dangerous aspects of their trade. Afterwards, when being paired with Senna, he made frequent mention of the way in which the Brazilian was taking risks.
I regret not having seen Fangio race, or Jim Clark. I wonder how I would have thought about them if I had. Fangio stopped when I was born, and though Clark was the driver who was always in the news as l learned to read, it is hard to make up my mind about these two.

In my mind, Fangio, Clark and Prost are all together in 1st place, and I end up with a kind of tier ranking. Senna comes very close to joining them, he was the fastest driver I ever saw in action myself. But Prost was the better, the ultimate Grand Prix driver. Prost never forgot that they were sportsmen, and that there was a table to slide ones legs under in the evening.

Prost also understood fair play. What a pity that has now been forgotten, as driver safety made it possible to survive even the most ludicrous crashes, caused accidentally, or on purpose. That is why I have great difficulty in classifying Senna and Schumacher. But what is clear is that both these drivers come after Prost. Well after Prost.


That is actually a very good post Fiki. IMO, in terms of skill (or just pure driving ability). Clark, Senna, and Schumacher (I would put them in that order). Fangio & Moss would be up next.

As a sportsman, Alain trumps them all (although he was definitely Senna's equal). It is for this specific reason, I would put Mika up there as well. Competing fairly, and beating a Schumacher in his prime is no easy feat. Why is he ranked 15th ? and Alonso 10th ? Strange !
Clark, Senna, Hamilton

Fat Albert
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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by Fat Albert »

Fangio deserves No1 status, not just because he won 24 of the 52 GPs (46%) he entered but because he won 15 GPs and 4 of his WDCs when he was older than Schumacher is now!!!

His last win, the oft described Greatest Drive Ever, at the 'ring came when he was 46!!!

I saw Jimmy Clark race a number of times, more because F1 drivers in those days raced F2 and saloons as well, they weren't ivory towered. He was clearly head and shoulders faster than his rivals, whatever he drove, often you could visibly see his superior corner speed. He was another, like Prost, to have an obviously lower cockpit workload, none of the sawing at wheel or jabbing of the throttle that characterised some contemporaries.

But for me, it was Moss who was unique, simply unbelievable car control and competitive drive tempered by being a very naughty boy (with the ladeez) and a gentleman at the same time. If he'd had Fangio's drive to win at all costs who knows what he'd of achieved.

I place Prost, Senna ans Schumacher on a par, Prost used tactics to compensate for Senna's undoubted speed advantage while Michael's remarkable numbers are compensated for by his, let's say, uncompromising attitude
Sebastien Vettel, the youngest driver ever to have the fastest car in F1 for four consecutive years

stratos
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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by stratos »

F1nsider wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
True, almost on par with the above mentioned 11 WDC's...


You don't have to be so literal!

So many things should be taken into consideration. I'm just saying that it's not apples vs apples. Plus, we haven't lived those years so we don't really know all the circumstances

If it was simply comparing statistics then we shouldn't bother now right?

I think it would be more fair to compare each era by itself.

Except Murray Walker did live all those years and watch all the drivers he is judging compete in most of the F1 races they ever drove.

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dizlexik
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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by dizlexik »

stratos wrote:
F1nsider wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
True, almost on par with the above mentioned 11 WDC's...


You don't have to be so literal!

So many things should be taken into consideration. I'm just saying that it's not apples vs apples. Plus, we haven't lived those years so we don't really know all the circumstances

If it was simply comparing statistics then we shouldn't bother now right?

I think it would be more fair to compare each era by itself.

Except Murray Walker did live all those years and watch all the drivers he is judging compete in most of the F1 races they ever drove.

:thumbup:

Murray Walker isn't just another armchair expert.
eeee

Fiki
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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by Fiki »

Retro-Virus wrote:That is actually a very good post Fiki.
Medic! Retro's not feeling very well! :D Thanks Retro, much appreciated.

Retro-Virus wrote:As a sportsman, Alain trumps them all (although he was definitely Senna's equal). It is for this specific reason, I would put Mika up there as well. Competing fairly, and beating a Schumacher in his prime is no easy feat. Why is he ranked 15th ? and Alonso 10th ? Strange !
I agree about Mika, but then, I had been expecting his rise to the top from the moment he started cleaning up in F3 (albeit with the other Mika), in more or less the same way as Senna.
As for the ranking, I suppose having to put a number before every name, you are going to get yourself into trouble with some names.

Having re-read Murray's article, I would say that Prost's years as a team principal should not be forgotten. The full(er) story should be known; the circumstances why a French national team could not be made to work, are a little more complex than is generally appreciated. At least, that's the picture I got.
Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity.

Maria de Villota - Jules Bianchi

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the incubus
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Re: BBC Formula 1's greatest drivers. Number 5: Alain Prost

Post by the incubus »

The BBC has it wrong. Trying to think of drivers better than Prost I come up with just one.
Second place is the first loser!

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