You have to admit it - he is without doubt the best driver in F1 at the moment.
Turning a Ferrari that handled as ugly as it looked into an outright championship-leading car after six races certainly takes some skill - regardless whether this season has an outright leading contender or not.
Although I am - and always has been - a Schumi fan, you simply cannot ignore the effort this guy has put in since the launch of the arguably worst Ferrari in the last 20 years.
I think his performances have been rather overshadowed by a.) the unpredictability of every race so far this season, b.) two new winners and c.) the end of domination by Vettel and Red Bull. So I thought I'd chip in with some appreciation for the guy.
I'll argue that the Ferrari is no slower than the RB, Lotus or Macca in an average race situation, but there's no arguing Alonso is something special. Whether he's driving any better than Hamilton at the moment is hard to say, but he's been exceptional this year. When you take everything into account he's the leader of the pack right now.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
-Epicurus
Maybe the car was never as bad as Ferrari suggested? Maybe their claims that the car was bad was just an excuse for not being able to fight for a win in Australia. Maybe Massa is just crap?
Balibari wrote:I'll argue that the Ferrari is no slower than the RB, Lotus or Macca in an average race situation, but there's no arguing Alonso is something special. Whether he's driving any better than Hamilton at the moment is hard to say, but he's been exceptional this year. When you take everything into account he's the leader of the pack right now.
While the Ferrari was not that slow, especially in race trim, it was incredibly difficult to drive. It was a car that would change its handling characteristics drastically even within a single stint, let alone a full race. It could be driven fast enough to achieve the results Alonso did, but it was with extreme difficulty. I for one never doubted Massa's speed, but he just couldn't drive such a difficult car, while Alonso could.
[quote="MistaVega23"]You have to admit it - he is without doubt the best driver in F1 at the moment.
Turning a Ferrari that handled as ugly as it looked into an outright championship-leading car after six races certainly takes some skill - regardless whether this season has an outright leading contender or not.
Although I am - and always has been - a Schumi fan, you simply cannot ignore the effort this guy has put in since the launch of the arguably worst Ferrari in the last 20 years.
I think there have been a few Ferrari's much worse than this years... Such as last years and 2009's
Looks like Ferrari's coming into its own now, but it was pretty bad at the start of the season and Alonso got the best out of it. It's not such a bad car anymore and in race trim it can keep up with the frontrunners.
Alonso deserves plenty of praise for his season but I'd invite his ardent fans to not overdo it because the counteraction will be proportionate and therefore over the limit as well.
Next race we may easily see at least one of three other drivers top Alonso if not all the three of them. Can you imagine the field party at Alonso’s and his fans’ expense if that happens?
What will be the excuse then, that the car let him down? But then, if Alonso is responsible for turning a Ferrari that handled as ugly as it looked into an outright championship-leading car after six races, why isn’t he responsible for turning his car to a third best after one race? Or by the same token, should we credit Hamilton, Webber and Vettel for doing a better job in a fortnight than Alonso?
I’ve long realized that a huge part of the overboard criticism towards a driver in this forum is a direct consequence of overboard praise. Ironically, the opposite is quite true as well and that’s why oftentimes we see threads locked in a vicious circle where people try to outdo the previous criticism or praise.
falb wrote:Alonso deserves plenty of praise for his season but I'd invite his ardent fans to not overdo it because the counteraction will be proportionate and therefore over the limit as well.
Next race we may easily see at least one of three other drivers top Alonso if not all the three of them. Can you imagine the field party at Alonso’s and his fans’ expense if that happens?
What will be the excuse then, that the car let him down? But then, if Alonso is responsible for turning a Ferrari that handled as ugly as it looked into an outright championship-leading car after six races, why isn’t he responsible for turning his car to a third best after one race? Or by the same token, should we credit Hamilton, Webber and Vettel for doing a better job in a fortnight than Alonso?
I’ve long realized that a huge part of the overboard criticism towards a driver in this forum is a direct consequence of overboard praise. Ironically, the opposite is quite true as well and that’s why oftentimes we see threads locked in a vicious circle where people try to outdo the previous criticism or praise.
If you look closely you will notice that none of the posters in this thread (except maybe rawsushi, I don't know for sure) are Alonso fans per se.
However I agree with you. I have supported Alonso ever since he started racing but I almost never post in an Alonso thread because of the same reason.
Apparently religious people didn't like my signature, hah! Don't read it if you are so offended by it.
When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion. - Robert Pirsig
Balibari wrote:I'll argue that the Ferrari is no slower than the RB, Lotus or Macca in an average race situation, but there's no arguing Alonso is something special. Whether he's driving any better than Hamilton at the moment is hard to say, but he's been exceptional this year. When you take everything into account he's the leader of the pack right now.
I would argue differentl,y maybe not by so much now but certainly for the first 4 races.
I always get irritated when someone says that the Ferrari is such a dog of a car and Fernando is the second coming. The car was never as bad as people were making it out to be and before you mention Massa, arguing the condition of the car in comparison between him and Alonso is stupid.
Fishy wrote:I always get irritated when someone says that the Ferrari is such a dog of a car and Fernando is the second coming. The car was never as bad as people were making it out to be and before you mention Massa, arguing the condition of the car in comparison between him and Alonso is stupid.
Oh come on you only had to look at how hard Alonso was having to drive it in Oz to see how bad it was.
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.
"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."
Fishy wrote:I always get irritated when someone says that the Ferrari is such a dog of a car and Fernando is the second coming. The car was never as bad as people were making it out to be and before you mention Massa, arguing the condition of the car in comparison between him and Alonso is stupid.
Oh come on you only had to look at how hard Alonso was having to drive it in Oz to see how bad it was.
Yep in oz it was definitely slower than Mclaren, Red Bull, Lotus, Mercedes and Williams. making it at best the 6th best car. For Ferrari that's pretty bad.
Fishy wrote:I always get irritated when someone says that the Ferrari is such a dog of a car and Fernando is the second coming. The car was never as bad as people were making it out to be and before you mention Massa, arguing the condition of the car in comparison between him and Alonso is stupid.
Oh come on you only had to look at how hard Alonso was having to drive it in Oz to see how bad it was.
Maybe in Australia they struggled slightly but were the 3rd best car. From then on the car has had performance to be at the top. Massa has just not been able to showcase this
Fishy wrote:I always get irritated when someone says that the Ferrari is such a dog of a car and Fernando is the second coming. The car was never as bad as people were making it out to be and before you mention Massa, arguing the condition of the car in comparison between him and Alonso is stupid.
Oh come on you only had to look at how hard Alonso was having to drive it in Oz to see how bad it was.
Maybe in Australia they struggled slightly but were the 3rd best car. From then on the car has had performance to be at the top. Massa has just not been able to showcase this
Mercedes, Mclaren, Red Bull, Lotus, Williams all lapped faster in the race.
Fishy wrote:I always get irritated when someone says that the Ferrari is such a dog of a car and Fernando is the second coming. The car was never as bad as people were making it out to be and before you mention Massa, arguing the condition of the car in comparison between him and Alonso is stupid.
Oh come on you only had to look at how hard Alonso was having to drive it in Oz to see how bad it was.
Maybe in Australia they struggled slightly but were the 3rd best car. From then on the car has had performance to be at the top. Massa has just not been able to showcase this
Not in every race. Alonso is working the car hard. It's maybe not as bad a Massa makes it look. But it is certainly not as good as Alonsos performance would suggest.
I would say Monaco was the first race it actually looked a genuine contender .
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.
"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."
He has been driving very well this season. The Ferrari in my opinion was only bad for the first 4 races. The fact that they came away from those races "only" 10 points off the lead says it all about how much crap they knew they were in.
However, you can't put the credit solely on Alonso. The Ferrari trackside operations in my opinion have been the class of the field so far this season. Their pitstops are brilliant and the the strategy has been perfect every race so far.
The situation has changed now. The car is becoming more and more competitive race by race. They seem to have fixed part of their issues regarding traction, Montreal will tell us if they have solved the top speed issues.
Just about everyone that watches F1 and is not blind, has to admit that Fernando is easily one of the best, if not the best driver on the grid, even if you don't like the guy.
And, even though I'm not a huge fan of him, I admire his driving style, and never give up attitude.
He is leading WDC with what has been at best the fourth fastest car on average over the season. He should not be called "consistant". Consistant sounds safe where as he has been outdriving the car He is a genius. You can just never counting him out from winning or podiun in a slower car He is fast becomming the next Schumi
AravJ wrote:He is leading WDC with what has been at best the fourth fastest car on average over the season. He should not be called "consistant". Consistant sounds safe where as he has been outdriving the car He is a genius. You can just never counting him out from winning or podiun in a slower car He is fast becomming the next Schumi
As much as I don't like him. I think driving skills. He's always been better than schui.
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.
"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."
The car’s gotten better, but look at how it was qualifying during the first races – Alonso qualified in 12th, then 9th place twice. Massa was even farther back. Granted qualifying has never been Alonso’s strongest point, but that was bad. Intelligentf1.wordpress.com pointed out early on that a lot of Alonso’s laps in Australia were 0.5s off his best pace. He’s usually very consistent lap to lap, so that implied a difficult car to drive. I would argue that it WAS a bad car until China or Bahrain.
Alonso has been great but Ferrari have been quite lucky with the first few races and a lot of things went their way. I think Alonsos Oz performance was fantastic, looking at the onboard shots that car looked really scary to drive with way too much snap oversteer in corners. Malaysia was special and the Ferrari was the fastest on inters. Loads of purple sectors during that period and that won him the race(he still drove fantastic, i don't think anyone but Hamilton could do that).
In Oz the car was around 6th fastest, but he still drove it to a 5th place, IMO that was his greatest performance this year.
I have no idea how good the car is now, but if Ferrari does well in Montreal, two vastly different tracks, then i'll start believing we have a good car.
Fishy wrote:I always get irritated when someone says that the Ferrari is such a dog of a car and Fernando is the second coming. The car was never as bad as people were making it out to be and before you mention Massa, arguing the condition of the car in comparison between him and Alonso is stupid.
Oh come on you only had to look at how hard Alonso was having to drive it in Oz to see how bad it was.
Maybe in Australia they struggled slightly but were the 3rd best car. From then on the car has had performance to be at the top. Massa has just not been able to showcase this
Mercedes, Mclaren, Red Bull, Lotus, Williams all lapped faster in the race.
And Perez got the fastest lap in Monaco. Was the Sauber the best car?
Fishy wrote:I always get irritated when someone says that the Ferrari is such a dog of a car and Fernando is the second coming. The car was never as bad as people were making it out to be and before you mention Massa, arguing the condition of the car in comparison between him and Alonso is stupid.
Oh come on you only had to look at how hard Alonso was having to drive it in Oz to see how bad it was.
Maybe in Australia they struggled slightly but were the 3rd best car. From then on the car has had performance to be at the top. Massa has just not been able to showcase this
Mercedes, Mclaren, Red Bull, Lotus, Williams all lapped faster in the race.
And Perez got the fastest lap in Monaco. Was the Sauber the best car?
Lapped faster consistently. For example Maldanado chased Alonso to the flag before crashing. If Maldanado is quicker than Alonso then the Williams is faster than the Ferrari.
with the way he's driving and the way the team is supporting him in strategy, development, pit-stops, etc. I don't see why Alonso would not win the WDC this year. It's his to lose, for sure! And he and his team have certainly worked hard to deserve it!
AravJ wrote:He is leading WDC with what has been at best the fourth fastest car on average over the season. He should not be called "consistant". Consistant sounds safe where as he has been outdriving the car He is a genius. You can just never counting him out from winning or podiun in a slower car He is fast becomming the next Schumi
Alonso is the one driver on this grid (apart from Schumi who is a great) who can be compared to the greats. He is more complete than any other driver on the grid. Vettel has made the case but needs some more time just to meet the test of time - think he is the only one on the grid who can match or beat Alonso and it is going to be a fascinating tussle for greatness between the two. 2010 was one epic battle and there is more to come.
"Expert observers at the weekend noted that Alonso had the right technique for driving the Pirelli supersofts, which can get easily damaged by spinning the wheels on corner exit. Alonso seemed to have appreciated that and was getting the cars straight before hitting the throttle, thus looking after them better."
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/05/how-vettel-and-alonso-came-close-to-winning-in-monaco/ "Understanding that the tyres needed clear air to run in, Fernando Alonso dropped back from Lewis Hamilton in the opening stint of Sunday’s race, in order to preserve the tyres. He was also practising a technique on the supersoft tyre which gave him better tyre life on a stint: the super soft doesn’t like wheelspin out of slow corners (longitudinal slide) and it doesn’t like it combined with lateral sliding. Alonso was straightening the wheels before applying the throttle, taking a little less out of his tyres at every corner than some of the others. This paid dividends at the end of the opening stint."
You could see how happy he was with getting 3rd at Monaco. Before the race he said that Ferrari were aiming for a podium finish, and he did just that.
I think that Alonso is the only driver to who can make reasonable targets for himself and meet them, and even regularly exceed them. Last year he was fighting for 2nd in the WDC in easily the third best car, and was fighting for the WDC the year before in what I considered also the third best car.
I don't like Fernando as a person, but he is undoubtedly the best driver out there.
McStenty wrote:I don't like Fernando as a person, but he is undoubtedly the best driver out there.
If it helps any, he seems to have grown up. Everyone on the grid has, now that I think about it. Now we need some new young drivers to annoy us with their childlike attitudes.
McStenty wrote:I don't like Fernando as a person, but he is undoubtedly the best driver out there.
If it helps any, he seems to have grown up. Everyone on the grid has, now that I think about it. Now we need some new young drivers to annoy us with their childlike attitudes.
McStenty wrote:I don't like Fernando as a person, but he is undoubtedly the best driver out there.
If it helps any, he seems to have grown up. Everyone on the grid has, now that I think about it. Now we need some new young drivers to annoy us with their childlike attitudes.
Maldonado.
He said child like not schizophrenic.
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.
"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."
McStenty wrote:I don't like Fernando as a person, but he is undoubtedly the best driver out there.
If it helps any, he seems to have grown up. Everyone on the grid has, now that I think about it. Now we need some new young drivers to annoy us with their childlike attitudes.
"Racing, competing, it's in my blood. It's part of me, it's part of my life; I have been doing it all my life and it stands out above everything else" Ayrton Senna
Respect where respect is due.
