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Exediron wrote:

RaggedMan wrote:

F1 MERCENARY wrote: I'm willing to GO ALL IN on a wager that not a single one of the top 10 drivers in every series you can imagine, is female.

Brittany and Courtney Force would like to have a word. Although I just read that Courtney retired in January, but has over 100 funny car wins and was 6th in last years standings. Brittany is only 2 years removed from her Top-Fuel Championship and is 4th in the current standings.

Hailie Deegan is another current driver in the top ten (fighting for the championship) in her series, the K&N Pro Series. But the Forces are a good example of women winning at what is the very top level of a category (drag racing).

Basically, as we have proven, F1 MERCENARY worded his bet too loosely, and would now be penniless if it had been real.

Indeed but I personally relate this to trying to find a female F1 driver and I wouldn't be looking at drag racing.

Covalent wrote:

Exediron wrote:

Covalent wrote:Pole, win and fastest lap for Emma Kimiläinen in the W race

Considering how many rounds she's missed due to her injury, Emma should be included with the more impressive performers from the season, IMO.

Definitely
I always believed in her talent and this series may be her last and best opportunity for showcasing it.

Yeah it's a shame she missed a couple of rounds.



If you missed it, check out reverse-grid non-championship race here . The Visser, Chadwick battle was superb , Chadwick does not give up even when out of position! Great racing however you look at it.

^^^ That was a borefest.

Just a few moments where I thought I'd raise a brow but then it was just meh. Poor attempts at overtakes thwarted by equally meh defenses.
Didn't see a single ANYTHING that made me excited in any capacity, and the commentary complimented the whole thing perfectly w… ZZzzz…

If I described it accurately I'd probably be accused of being sexist for speaking the honest truth, but it's EXACTLY why I can't watch WNBA games.
While a handful of these women do some things well, overall it's lacking. I'd wager everything I own that not a single one of these drivers could match even the worst pay driver in F1 from the last decade, and that's saying a lot.

Having said that, There are 2 or 3 women that MIGHT be able to keep up, but that's simply not good enough to earn a seat, but I still hope F1 features female drivers, but I only if they earn a seat on pure merit as opposed to being gifted a seat for the publicity and exposure they would potentially bring.

Blake wrote:

Exediron wrote:

RaggedMan wrote:

F1 MERCENARY wrote: I'm willing to GO ALL IN on a wager that not a single one of the top 10 drivers in every series you can imagine, is female.

Brittany and Courtney Force would like to have a word. Although I just read that Courtney retired in January, but has over 100 funny car wins and was 6th in last years standings. Brittany is only 2 years removed from her Top-Fuel Championship and is 4th in the current standings.

Hailie Deegan is another current driver in the top ten (fighting for the championship) in her series, the K&N Pro Series. But the Forces are a good example of women winning at what is the very top level of a category (drag racing).

Basically, as we have proven, F1 MERCENARY worded his bet too loosely, and would now be penniless if it had been real.

+1

Racing light to light is a completely different animal to proper course racing and its a whole to easier to drive on the limit in a straight line for a mere few seconds, and oh yeah, when daddy is the greatest light to light driver of all time and is providing them with elite equipment, it makes it a whole lot easier to win. Sorry but I stand by what I said.

F1 MERCENARY wrote:

Blake wrote:

Exediron wrote:

RaggedMan wrote:

F1 MERCENARY wrote: I'm willing to GO ALL IN on a wager that not a single one of the top 10 drivers in every series you can imagine, is female.

Brittany and Courtney Force would like to have a word. Although I just read that Courtney retired in January, but has over 100 funny car wins and was 6th in last years standings. Brittany is only 2 years removed from her Top-Fuel Championship and is 4th in the current standings.

Hailie Deegan is another current driver in the top ten (fighting for the championship) in her series, the K&N Pro Series. But the Forces are a good example of women winning at what is the very top level of a category (drag racing).

Basically, as we have proven, F1 MERCENARY worded his bet too loosely, and would now be penniless if it had been real.

+1

Racing light to light is a completely different animal to proper course racing and its a whole to easier to drive on the limit in a straight line for a mere few seconds, and oh yeah, when daddy is the greatest light to light driver of all time and is providing them with elite equipment, it makes it a whole lot easier to win. Sorry but I stand by what I said.

It's already been demonstrated that what you said was hyperbole at best, and mostly just false. Why double down on it?

F1 MERCENARY wrote:

Blake wrote:

Exediron wrote:

RaggedMan wrote:

F1 MERCENARY wrote: I'm willing to GO ALL IN on a wager that not a single one of the top 10 drivers in every series you can imagine, is female.

Brittany and Courtney Force would like to have a word. Although I just read that Courtney retired in January, but has over 100 funny car wins and was 6th in last years standings. Brittany is only 2 years removed from her Top-Fuel Championship and is 4th in the current standings.

Hailie Deegan is another current driver in the top ten (fighting for the championship) in her series, the K&N Pro Series. But the Forces are a good example of women winning at what is the very top level of a category (drag racing).

Basically, as we have proven, F1 MERCENARY worded his bet too loosely, and would now be penniless if it had been real.

+1

Racing light to light is a completely different animal to proper course racing and its a whole to easier to drive on the limit in a straight line for a mere few seconds, and oh yeah, when daddy is the greatest light to light driver of all time and is providing them with elite equipment, it makes it a whole lot easier to win. Sorry but I stand by what I said.

Even though what you said has literally been proved inaccurate? These are facts that have been offered. Not opinions.

F1 MERCENARY wrote:^^^ That was a borefest.

Just a few moments where I thought I'd raise a brow but then it was just meh. Poor attempts at overtakes thwarted by equally meh defenses.
Didn't see a single ANYTHING that made me excited in any capacity, and the commentary complimented the whole thing perfectly w… ZZzzz…

If I described it accurately I'd probably be accused of being sexist for speaking the honest truth, but it's EXACTLY why I can't watch WNBA games.
While a handful of these women do some things well, overall it's lacking. I'd wager everything I own that not a single one of these drivers could match even the worst pay driver in F1 from the last decade, and that's saying a lot.

Having said that, There are 2 or 3 women that MIGHT be able to keep up, but that's simply not good enough to earn a seat, but I still hope F1 features female drivers, but I only if they earn a seat on pure merit as opposed to being gifted a seat for the publicity and exposure they would potentially bring.

Yeah It's obvious how low the level is.

angellle sampey was badass in her day

it seems pretty simple, there aren't large numbers of girls in racing at a young age, like there are boys. so more men move to the top as the get older, and more experience

the force women shouldn't have anything taken away from their skills, just because of their father

pc27b wrote:angellle sampey was badass in her day

it seems pretty simple, there aren't large numbers of girls in racing at a young age, like there are boys. so more men move to the top as the get older, and more experience

the force women shouldn't have anything taken away from their skills, just because of their father

True... John does not drive their cars or generate the reaction times. Nor are the Force girls the only women to be very successful, so to dismiss their work/skill as just the product of a legendary father is not fair to them.

DOLOMITE wrote:If you missed it, check out reverse-grid non-championship race here . The Visser, Chadwick battle was superb , Chadwick does not give up even when out of position! Great racing however you look at it.

Indeed

Chadwick raced aggressively but fairly with Visser before coming alive after the final safety car to gain 4 places in 2 laps and finish 8th from last on the reverse grid.

Powell was the star mind, started 17th, finished 2nd by the width of the paint on the front wing!

Also very impressed with Jessica Hawkins, Karts then Clio's, very smooth, moved through the field with well thought out overtakes, challenging for the lead on the penultimate lap only to be pushed wide costing her 3 places.

Finally the 18 year old Canadian Gilkes who won (just) from pole did everything right. Having driven away twice from the start and the first SC restart she was caught in the final laps, first by Hawkins and then by Powell, both clearly faster, but defended well enough to hold on having led every metre since the start. Good Job.

Some terrific 3 abreast racing at times.

As for the uninformed comment about the feature race, it was boring because the track is a MOTORCYCLE track, these cars were basically flat out in anything other than the chicanes/hairpin corner. Hold any single seater race at Assen with conventional qualifying and it would be a similar snorefest.

The W Series final tomorrow. It's between Chadwick and Visser, but it's been interesting to see Kimilainen and Powells performances last couple of races - if the championship had a few more rounds I think they would work their way into contention.

Inappropriate post removed.

Off topic post removed

Jamie Chadwick secures inaugural W Series title. Not her best race, but she did what she needed to do, to seal the deal. Congratulations to her.

Hopefully we can see Chadwick in F2 next year, or F3 at least.

Time for the W series to set the foundation of what it will be long term. A gateway for young female drivers, or just a motorsport championship for women.

Yep. If Chadwick doesn't appear in at least F3, ideally F2, and perform as well as an average rookie winner of a previous lower championship, then the series won't be looking good. She looked likely to be the winner all along, so it's time for her to prove herself in the next series up.

Hopefully next season it will be significantly easier to actually watch the races. I haven't been able to do so since they stopped putting them up on YouTube a few days after the race happened, so it's hard to judge what the racing was like towards the end of the championship.

Congrats to Chadwick. Have to say though it was intriguing to see the progression of some of the other drivers as the series progressed. Chadwick hit the ground running as you'd expect with the momentum she had coming in but by the last race it was clear she wasn't significantly better than the likes of Visser and Kimilainnen and maybe even Powell. Some good racing in the final too.

I'll write up my thoughts overall when I have more time but overall the 1st year has to be seen as a success.

Black_Flag_11 wrote:Hopefully we can see Chadwick in F2 next year, or F3 at least.

Time for the W series to set the foundation of what it will be long term. A gateway for young female drivers, or just a motorsport championship for women.

If she does don't be surprised to see her running around near the back.

Black_Flag_11 wrote:Hopefully we can see Chadwick in F2 next year, or F3 at least.

Time for the W series to set the foundation of what it will be long term. A gateway for young female drivers, or just a motorsport championship for women.

She would probably do better in F1 than F2. F2 is not easy on small drivers who don't have a lot of strength. There is no power steering and it's a whole lot more physical than F1. Lando Norris has said that he struggled with F2 far more than F1 due to this.

Jamie is definitely a legitimate racing driver but I do not think she is F1-caliber. I hope that the media doesn't railroad this whole thing into a situation where she is in over her head. I could see her being very competitive in the right series but I seriously doubt that F1 is that series.

sandman1347 wrote:

Black_Flag_11 wrote:Hopefully we can see Chadwick in F2 next year, or F3 at least.

Time for the W series to set the foundation of what it will be long term. A gateway for young female drivers, or just a motorsport championship for women.

She would probably do better in F1 than F2. F2 is not easy on small drivers who don't have a lot of strength. There is no power steering and it's a whole lot more physical than F1. Lando Norris has said that he struggled with F2 far more than F1 due to this.

Jamie is definitely a legitimate racing driver but I do not think she is F1-caliber. I hope that the media doesn't railroad this whole thing into a situation where she is in over her head. I could see her being very competitive in the right series but I seriously doubt that F1 is that series.

I think F2 would be to big of a leap. Lets see her in F3 and see how she does.

mikeyg123 wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:

Black_Flag_11 wrote:Hopefully we can see Chadwick in F2 next year, or F3 at least.

Time for the W series to set the foundation of what it will be long term. A gateway for young female drivers, or just a motorsport championship for women.

She would probably do better in F1 than F2. F2 is not easy on small drivers who don't have a lot of strength. There is no power steering and it's a whole lot more physical than F1. Lando Norris has said that he struggled with F2 far more than F1 due to this.

Jamie is definitely a legitimate racing driver but I do not think she is F1-caliber. I hope that the media doesn't railroad this whole thing into a situation where she is in over her head. I could see her being very competitive in the right series but I seriously doubt that F1 is that series.

I think F2 would be to big of a leap. Lets see her in F3 and see how she does.

Well there's the (half) million dollar question. W Series cars are F3 spec. So you could argue that that as she has just won an F3 based series, next step should be F2. But as has been pointed out - what does a W Series win actually indicate? Would you now put her on a par with Ocon, Norris etc?

I think we need to stop viewing W Series as a direct feeder series. It's a vehicle to give exposure to drivers who may otherwise struggle. If there is a woman out there who is good enough for F1 I'd like to think she'd find her way there even without W Series. Calderon and Floersch are out there proving that yes women can compete, but when the playing field gets beyond national level tin-tops you'll need the talent to go with your ambition.

I like Chadwick a lot and have enjoyed the series. I will continue to watch, and won't consider it a failure if it doesn't produce a female F1 driver. If it continues to entertain, allows some female drivers to make a career out of racing and inspires a few more girls to pop down to their kart track and consider Motorsport a potential career, then it works for me.

pokerman wrote:

Black_Flag_11 wrote:Hopefully we can see Chadwick in F2 next year, or F3 at least.

Time for the W series to set the foundation of what it will be long term. A gateway for young female drivers, or just a motorsport championship for women.

If she does don't be surprised to see her running around near the back.

Near? She will consistently be at the back.

Her benchmark is Powell who was absolutely nowhere in GP3 and that was 6 years ago now. She needed to absolutely destroy the likes of Powell and Visser to be credible for F3/F2 but she only beat them narrowly and was even behind in a couple of races.

DOLOMITE wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:

Black_Flag_11 wrote:Hopefully we can see Chadwick in F2 next year, or F3 at least.

Time for the W series to set the foundation of what it will be long term. A gateway for young female drivers, or just a motorsport championship for women.

She would probably do better in F1 than F2. F2 is not easy on small drivers who don't have a lot of strength. There is no power steering and it's a whole lot more physical than F1. Lando Norris has said that he struggled with F2 far more than F1 due to this.

Jamie is definitely a legitimate racing driver but I do not think she is F1-caliber. I hope that the media doesn't railroad this whole thing into a situation where she is in over her head. I could see her being very competitive in the right series but I seriously doubt that F1 is that series.

I think F2 would be to big of a leap. Lets see her in F3 and see how she does.

Well there's the (half) million dollar question. W Series cars are F3 spec. So you could argue that that as she has just won an F3 based series, next step should be F2. But as has been pointed out - what does a W Series win actually indicate? Would you now put her on a par with Ocon, Norris etc?

I think we need to stop viewing W Series as a direct feeder series. It's a vehicle to give exposure to drivers who may otherwise struggle. If there is a woman out there who is good enough for F1 I'd like to think she'd find her way there even without W Series. Calderon and Floersch are out there proving that yes women can compete, but when the playing field gets beyond national level tin-tops you'll need the talent to go with your ambition.

I like Chadwick a lot and have enjoyed the series. I will continue to watch, and won't consider it a failure if it doesn't produce a female F1 driver. If it continues to entertain, allows some female drivers to make a career out of racing and inspires a few more girls to pop down to their kart track and consider Motorsport a potential career, then it works for me.

But isn't the sole purpose of the W Series to be a vehicle for women to get to the top echelon of motor sport? That's what the mission statement on their web page alludes to.

Surely if, in 5 odd yrs time, no competitive female driver has made it to F2 or beyond & the W Series is trotting out pretty much the same faces year in, year out, it has to be considered a failure.

I've not watched the series or monitored it's progress this season simply because i'm simply against the concept of the series & as such I refuse to support it. I don't care that the cars might look good & I don't care that the racing might be exciting. We already have other racing series' that achieve those objectives and is also open to mixed competition.

Unlike almost every other motor sport series on the planet, the W series is not a conglomerate of different teams competing for a championship. It's a series that has no individual team owners championships & prize money. By their own admission it has 1 goal & 1 goal only & that's to provide a shortcut for females to make it into F1 and there has to be a point in the future where, if the series doesn't achieve that goal, then I don't see how it can be viewed as anything but a failure

Jezza13 wrote:

DOLOMITE wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:

Black_Flag_11 wrote:Hopefully we can see Chadwick in F2 next year, or F3 at least.

Time for the W series to set the foundation of what it will be long term. A gateway for young female drivers, or just a motorsport championship for women.

She would probably do better in F1 than F2. F2 is not easy on small drivers who don't have a lot of strength. There is no power steering and it's a whole lot more physical than F1. Lando Norris has said that he struggled with F2 far more than F1 due to this.

Jamie is definitely a legitimate racing driver but I do not think she is F1-caliber. I hope that the media doesn't railroad this whole thing into a situation where she is in over her head. I could see her being very competitive in the right series but I seriously doubt that F1 is that series.

I think F2 would be to big of a leap. Lets see her in F3 and see how she does.

Well there's the (half) million dollar question. W Series cars are F3 spec. So you could argue that that as she has just won an F3 based series, next step should be F2. But as has been pointed out - what does a W Series win actually indicate? Would you now put her on a par with Ocon, Norris etc?

I think we need to stop viewing W Series as a direct feeder series. It's a vehicle to give exposure to drivers who may otherwise struggle. If there is a woman out there who is good enough for F1 I'd like to think she'd find her way there even without W Series. Calderon and Floersch are out there proving that yes women can compete, but when the playing field gets beyond national level tin-tops you'll need the talent to go with your ambition.

I like Chadwick a lot and have enjoyed the series. I will continue to watch, and won't consider it a failure if it doesn't produce a female F1 driver. If it continues to entertain, allows some female drivers to make a career out of racing and inspires a few more girls to pop down to their kart track and consider Motorsport a potential career, then it works for me.

But isn't the sole purpose of the W Series to be a vehicle for women to get to the top echelon of motor sport? That's what the mission statement on their web page alludes to.

Surely if, in 5 odd yrs time, no competitive female driver has made it to F2 or beyond & the W Series is trotting out pretty much the same faces year in, year out, it has to be considered a failure.

I've not watched the series or monitored it's progress this season simply because i'm simply against the concept of the series & as such I refuse to support it. I don't care that the cars might look good & I don't care that the racing might be exciting. We already have other racing series' that achieve those objectives and is also open to mixed competition.

Unlike almost every other motor sport series on the planet, the W series is not a conglomerate of different teams competing for a championship. It's a series that has no individual team owners championships & prize money. By their own admission it has 1 goal & 1 goal only & that's to provide a shortcut for females to make it into F1 and there has to be a point in the future where, if the series doesn't achieve that goal, then I don't see how it can be viewed as anything but a failure

Well I'm not here to change your mind so view it however you like. Certainly the bit highlighted above suggests that would be pointless anyway.

https://wseries.com/w-hub/introducing-w-series/

Problem is here the group statement and the individuals don't always align. But I don't care. I think it can stand in it's own right. Chadwick raced well but the fact she didn't really dominate some others suggests to me she is not significantly better that say Floersch. But so what? A bunch of drivers have had a years racing and development they wouldn't otherwise have had, a few might get other offers they otherwise wouldn't have. It's not hurting anyone and I, along with a few others have been entertained so where's the harm?

Jezza13 wrote:

DOLOMITE wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:

Black_Flag_11 wrote:Hopefully we can see Chadwick in F2 next year, or F3 at least.

Time for the W series to set the foundation of what it will be long term. A gateway for young female drivers, or just a motorsport championship for women.

She would probably do better in F1 than F2. F2 is not easy on small drivers who don't have a lot of strength. There is no power steering and it's a whole lot more physical than F1. Lando Norris has said that he struggled with F2 far more than F1 due to this.

Jamie is definitely a legitimate racing driver but I do not think she is F1-caliber. I hope that the media doesn't railroad this whole thing into a situation where she is in over her head. I could see her being very competitive in the right series but I seriously doubt that F1 is that series.

I think F2 would be to big of a leap. Lets see her in F3 and see how she does.

Well there's the (half) million dollar question. W Series cars are F3 spec. So you could argue that that as she has just won an F3 based series, next step should be F2. But as has been pointed out - what does a W Series win actually indicate? Would you now put her on a par with Ocon, Norris etc?

I think we need to stop viewing W Series as a direct feeder series. It's a vehicle to give exposure to drivers who may otherwise struggle. If there is a woman out there who is good enough for F1 I'd like to think she'd find her way there even without W Series. Calderon and Floersch are out there proving that yes women can compete, but when the playing field gets beyond national level tin-tops you'll need the talent to go with your ambition.

I like Chadwick a lot and have enjoyed the series. I will continue to watch, and won't consider it a failure if it doesn't produce a female F1 driver. If it continues to entertain, allows some female drivers to make a career out of racing and inspires a few more girls to pop down to their kart track and consider Motorsport a potential career, then it works for me.

But isn't the sole purpose of the W Series to be a vehicle for women to get to the top echelon of motor sport? That's what the mission statement on their web page alludes to.

Surely if, in 5 odd yrs time, no competitive female driver has made it to F2 or beyond & the W Series is trotting out pretty much the same faces year in, year out, it has to be considered a failure.

I've not watched the series or monitored it's progress this season simply because i'm simply against the concept of the series & as such I refuse to support it. I don't care that the cars might look good & I don't care that the racing might be exciting. We already have other racing series' that achieve those objectives and is also open to mixed competition.

Unlike almost every other motor sport series on the planet, the W series is not a conglomerate of different teams competing for a championship. It's a series that has no individual team owners championships & prize money. By their own admission it has 1 goal & 1 goal only & that's to provide a shortcut for females to make it into F1 and there has to be a point in the future where, if the series doesn't achieve that goal, then I don't see how it can be viewed as anything but a failure

If so, it's an ill-conceived mission. If you want more women to reach the highest levels in motor sport then you need to focus on getting more young girls involved in karting. Focusing on adults in the feeder categories is not going to cut it. It's too late by then. Increasing female participation at the entry level is where you start and then you go from there. Might turn out that's all you actually need to do.

sandman1347 wrote:

Jezza13 wrote:

DOLOMITE wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

sandman1347 wrote: She would probably do better in F1 than F2. F2 is not easy on small drivers who don't have a lot of strength. There is no power steering and it's a whole lot more physical than F1. Lando Norris has said that he struggled with F2 far more than F1 due to this.

Jamie is definitely a legitimate racing driver but I do not think she is F1-caliber. I hope that the media doesn't railroad this whole thing into a situation where she is in over her head. I could see her being very competitive in the right series but I seriously doubt that F1 is that series.

I think F2 would be to big of a leap. Lets see her in F3 and see how she does.

Well there's the (half) million dollar question. W Series cars are F3 spec. So you could argue that that as she has just won an F3 based series, next step should be F2. But as has been pointed out - what does a W Series win actually indicate? Would you now put her on a par with Ocon, Norris etc?

I think we need to stop viewing W Series as a direct feeder series. It's a vehicle to give exposure to drivers who may otherwise struggle. If there is a woman out there who is good enough for F1 I'd like to think she'd find her way there even without W Series. Calderon and Floersch are out there proving that yes women can compete, but when the playing field gets beyond national level tin-tops you'll need the talent to go with your ambition.

I like Chadwick a lot and have enjoyed the series. I will continue to watch, and won't consider it a failure if it doesn't produce a female F1 driver. If it continues to entertain, allows some female drivers to make a career out of racing and inspires a few more girls to pop down to their kart track and consider Motorsport a potential career, then it works for me.

But isn't the sole purpose of the W Series to be a vehicle for women to get to the top echelon of motor sport? That's what the mission statement on their web page alludes to.

Surely if, in 5 odd yrs time, no competitive female driver has made it to F2 or beyond & the W Series is trotting out pretty much the same faces year in, year out, it has to be considered a failure.

I've not watched the series or monitored it's progress this season simply because i'm simply against the concept of the series & as such I refuse to support it. I don't care that the cars might look good & I don't care that the racing might be exciting. We already have other racing series' that achieve those objectives and is also open to mixed competition.

Unlike almost every other motor sport series on the planet, the W series is not a conglomerate of different teams competing for a championship. It's a series that has no individual team owners championships & prize money. By their own admission it has 1 goal & 1 goal only & that's to provide a shortcut for females to make it into F1 and there has to be a point in the future where, if the series doesn't achieve that goal, then I don't see how it can be viewed as anything but a failure

If so, it's an ill-conceived mission. If you want more women to reach the highest levels in motor sport then you need to focus on getting more young girls involved in karting. Focusing on adults in the feeder categories is not going to cut it. It's too late by then. Increasing female participation at the entry level is where you start and then you go from there. Might turn out that's all you actually need to do.

You hit the nail on the head with your first swing but missed the point.

Of course nearly all of these women are unlikely to ever be close to F1 standards and simple statistics would bear that out, far far far fewer women participate in F1 so even if women have the exact same potential as men it's unlikely that a top flight driver would have emerged from the program.

The solution is more girls karting from an early age. But to do that there needs to be a high profile visibility of women participating in racing so a higher number of young girls identify with racing as something they can do. Presently racing and fast driving has a cultural bias of acceptability towards men. A female only racing series at least demonstrates that racing is something women like to do, increasing the chances that more little girls will want to get into karting.

It's a chicken and the egg situation, and it's not something that can change over night.

DOLOMITE wrote:

Jezza13 wrote:

DOLOMITE wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

sandman1347 wrote: She would probably do better in F1 than F2. F2 is not easy on small drivers who don't have a lot of strength. There is no power steering and it's a whole lot more physical than F1. Lando Norris has said that he struggled with F2 far more than F1 due to this.

Jamie is definitely a legitimate racing driver but I do not think she is F1-caliber. I hope that the media doesn't railroad this whole thing into a situation where she is in over her head. I could see her being very competitive in the right series but I seriously doubt that F1 is that series.

I think F2 would be to big of a leap. Lets see her in F3 and see how she does.

Well there's the (half) million dollar question. W Series cars are F3 spec. So you could argue that that as she has just won an F3 based series, next step should be F2. But as has been pointed out - what does a W Series win actually indicate? Would you now put her on a par with Ocon, Norris etc?

I think we need to stop viewing W Series as a direct feeder series. It's a vehicle to give exposure to drivers who may otherwise struggle. If there is a woman out there who is good enough for F1 I'd like to think she'd find her way there even without W Series. Calderon and Floersch are out there proving that yes women can compete, but when the playing field gets beyond national level tin-tops you'll need the talent to go with your ambition.

I like Chadwick a lot and have enjoyed the series. I will continue to watch, and won't consider it a failure if it doesn't produce a female F1 driver. If it continues to entertain, allows some female drivers to make a career out of racing and inspires a few more girls to pop down to their kart track and consider Motorsport a potential career, then it works for me.

But isn't the sole purpose of the W Series to be a vehicle for women to get to the top echelon of motor sport? That's what the mission statement on their web page alludes to.

Surely if, in 5 odd yrs time, no competitive female driver has made it to F2 or beyond & the W Series is trotting out pretty much the same faces year in, year out, it has to be considered a failure.

I've not watched the series or monitored it's progress this season simply because i'm simply against the concept of the series & as such I refuse to support it. I don't care that the cars might look good & I don't care that the racing might be exciting. We already have other racing series' that achieve those objectives and is also open to mixed competition.

Unlike almost every other motor sport series on the planet, the W series is not a conglomerate of different teams competing for a championship. It's a series that has no individual team owners championships & prize money. By their own admission it has 1 goal & 1 goal only & that's to provide a shortcut for females to make it into F1 and there has to be a point in the future where, if the series doesn't achieve that goal, then I don't see how it can be viewed as anything but a failure

Well I'm not here to change your mind so view it however you like. Certainly the bit highlighted above suggests that would be pointless anyway.

https://wseries.com/w-hub/introducing-w-series/

Problem is here the group statement and the individuals don't always align. But I don't care. I think it can stand in it's own right. Chadwick raced well but the fact she didn't really dominate some others suggests to me she is not significantly better that say Floersch. But so what? A bunch of drivers have had a years racing and development they wouldn't otherwise have had, a few might get other offers they otherwise wouldn't have. It's not hurting anyone and I, along with a few others have been entertained so where's the harm?

I wasn't challenging you to change my mind Dolomite. I was just questioning how the series would be viewed down the track should it fail to achieve it's stated goal.

So if Chadwich is the best open wheel female racer aroubd where would she be finishing if she was in the Merc this year? Front or back of the feild?

Ruste13 wrote:So if Chadwich is the best open wheel female racer aroubd where would she be finishing if she was in the Merc this year? Front or back of the feild?

She would probably be in full qualifying mode to get into Q2.

Alienturnedhuman wrote: You hit the nail on the head with your first swing but missed the point.

Of course nearly all of these women are unlikely to ever be close to F1 standards and simple statistics would bear that out, far far far fewer women participate in F1 so even if women have the exact same potential as men it's unlikely that a top flight driver would have emerged from the program.

The solution is more girls karting from an early age. But to do that there needs to be a high profile visibility of women participating in racing so a higher number of young girls identify with racing as something they can do. Presently racing and fast driving has a cultural bias of acceptability towards men. A female only racing series at least demonstrates that racing is something women like to do, increasing the chances that more little girls will want to get into karting.

It's a chicken and the egg situation, and it's not something that can change over night.[/color]

Yeah and that's how I'm seeing it to be honest. Finding a female F1 driver may not come about directly via a W Series winner, but maybe if it raises the profile of the sport among girls, more will have a crack at karting and find their way through the ranks in the more conventional way. So more female driver most almost be a by-product. I think as has been said here - their actual objective isn't really clear, the site merely states

"We're here to shake up the industry, push aside stereotypes and change the face of motorsport, quite literally."

Which frankly isn't great. I wouldn't say it was a mission statement or a vision. But, it's what they have stated, so if you want to measure it's success/failure, those are apparently your criteria. Good luck!

DOLOMITE wrote:

Alienturnedhuman wrote: You hit the nail on the head with your first swing but missed the point.

Of course nearly all of these women are unlikely to ever be close to F1 standards and simple statistics would bear that out, far far far fewer women participate in F1 so even if women have the exact same potential as men it's unlikely that a top flight driver would have emerged from the program.

The solution is more girls karting from an early age. But to do that there needs to be a high profile visibility of women participating in racing so a higher number of young girls identify with racing as something they can do. Presently racing and fast driving has a cultural bias of acceptability towards men. A female only racing series at least demonstrates that racing is something women like to do, increasing the chances that more little girls will want to get into karting.

It's a chicken and the egg situation, and it's not something that can change over night.[/color]

Yeah and that's how I'm seeing it to be honest. Finding a female F1 driver may not come about directly via a W Series winner, but maybe if it raises the profile of the sport among girls, more will have a crack at karting and find their way through the ranks in the more conventional way. So more female driver most almost be a by-product. I think as has been said here - their actual objective isn't really clear, the site merely states

"We're here to shake up the industry, push aside stereotypes and change the face of motorsport, quite literally."

Which frankly isn't great. I wouldn't say it was a mission statement or a vision. But, it's what they have stated, so if you want to measure it's success/failure, those are apparently your criteria. Good luck!

Yes none of these women are good enough but if you can attract many more into the sport then you have a greater chance of finding some that might be.

pokerman wrote:

Ruste13 wrote:So if Chadwich is the best open wheel female racer aroubd where would she be finishing if she was in the Merc this year? Front or back of the feild?

She would probably be in full qualifying mode to get into Q2.

That would imply she's about 3 seconds slower than Lewis or Valtteri. I don't really believe that. Realistically, I think she'd be in the 1-1.5 seconds slower range. Calderon only averages about 1.5 seconds off the pace in F2, and while the leaders in F2 aren't as quick as the Merc drivers, I'm pretty confident Chadwick is better than Calderon.

Exediron wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Ruste13 wrote:So if Chadwich is the best open wheel female racer aroubd where would she be finishing if she was in the Merc this year? Front or back of the feild?

She would probably be in full qualifying mode to get into Q2.

That would imply she's about 3 seconds slower than Lewis or Valtteri. I don't really believe that. Realistically, I think she'd be in the 1-1.5 seconds slower range. Calderon only averages about 1.5 seconds off the pace in F2, and while the leaders in F2 aren't as quick as the Merc drivers, I'm pretty confident Chadwick is better than Calderon.

An F1 car seems easier to drive competitively than the junior series. I would say she'd be around 1.5-2 seconds of Hamilton.

Exediron wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Ruste13 wrote:So if Chadwich is the best open wheel female racer aroubd where would she be finishing if she was in the Merc this year? Front or back of the feild?

She would probably be in full qualifying mode to get into Q2.

That would imply she's about 3 seconds slower than Lewis or Valtteri. I don't really believe that. Realistically, I think she'd be in the 1-1.5 seconds slower range. Calderon only averages about 1.5 seconds off the pace in F2, and while the leaders in F2 aren't as quick as the Merc drivers, I'm pretty confident Chadwick is better than Calderon.

No I was basing it on 1.5 seconds, at that she couldn't afford to run on the lower power modes that Hamilton and Bottas do in Q3, also let's not forget the tracks tend to ramp up a bit in speed when you get to Q3 if you're looking at that as being an ultimate time in Q1 which may not be the case?

Regarding Calderon in F2 I checked that because I'm sure her gap was bigger than 1.5 seconds, you found her most competitive qualifying, she averages more like 3 seconds slower, with Chadwick I did think that 1.5 seconds might be generous?

I get that the intention is to attract more young women to the sport but it just wont happen. I don't know a single woman who has been to, watched, made reference to or is really aware of W Series. That's not going to change despite all the heavily forced media exposure. Why? The vast majority of women just aren't interested in motor sports.

I honestly didn't know a single woman when I was at school who was interested in F1.

pokerman wrote:Regarding Calderon in F2 I checked that because I'm sure her gap was bigger than 1.5 seconds, you found her most competitive qualifying, she averages more like 3 seconds slower, with Chadwick I did think that 1.5 seconds might be generous?

I didn't actually check any times - that was just my gut feeling, which was apparently on the low side. I don't usually pay attention to where she and RAG qualify, aside from knowing it's always second-to-last and last.

As for the part about different quali modes, that's always really hard to know. The track certainly improves within a session, but I'm not convinced it improves from session to session. Only the top teams - the ones who turn down their engines in Q1 and Q2 - consistently set better times between Q2 and Q3. The midfield teams frequently do not.

Trying to attain some sort of benchmark of their relative results; Calderon has raced Powell before in the MRF challenge. I've never watched it and no nothing about the standard of competition but going from wiki, in the 4 races they competed together, Calderon finished 5-2-3-2 whilst Powell was 9-10-9-8. Taking that at face value, it would seem that TC outperformed Powell by a much greater margin in that, than JC has in W Series.

Mod - Maybe I was being facetious but the ONLY way things will change is when young children develop different interests. c.2010-2013 we had the likes of Powell, Piria and Jorda in GP3, Wolff in DTM and testing for Williams and Patrick, Legge, Mann and Simona in Indy. Going by the logic of W-Series, seeing women compete at this level should have inspired a fresh wave of young women in karting. If they stared aged 8 in 2012. they should be in F4 or Ginettas already but they aren't.

Personally I think it's quite a patronising view that women will watch something just because there are women doing it. If Hamilton vs. Verstappen doesn't excite you, Chadwick wont either.

Banana Man wrote:Trying to attain some sort of benchmark of their relative results; Calderon has raced Powell before in the MRF challenge. I've never watched it and no nothing about the standard of competition but going from wiki, in the 4 races they competed together, Calderon finished 5-2-3-2 whilst Powell was 9-10-9-8. Taking that at face value, it would seem that TC outperformed Powell by a much greater margin in that, than JC has in W Series.

Mod - Maybe I was being facetious but the ONLY way things will change is when young children develop different interests. c.2010-2013 we had the likes of Powell, Piria and Jorda in GP3, Wolff in DTM and testing for Williams and Patrick, Legge, Mann and Simona in Indy. Going by the logic of W-Series, seeing women compete at this level should have inspired a fresh wave of young women in karting. If they stared aged 8 in 2012. they should be in F4 or Ginettas already but they aren't.

Personally I think it's quite a patronising view that women will watch something just because there are women doing it. If Hamilton vs. Verstappen doesn't excite you, Chadwick wont either.

That's interesting, some of the women that saw the W series as being beneath them are possible better than the women that actually took part?

pokerman wrote:

Exediron wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Ruste13 wrote:So if Chadwich is the best open wheel female racer aroubd where would she be finishing if she was in the Merc this year? Front or back of the feild?

She would probably be in full qualifying mode to get into Q2.

That would imply she's about 3 seconds slower than Lewis or Valtteri. I don't really believe that. Realistically, I think she'd be in the 1-1.5 seconds slower range. Calderon only averages about 1.5 seconds off the pace in F2, and while the leaders in F2 aren't as quick as the Merc drivers, I'm pretty confident Chadwick is better than Calderon.

No I was basing it on 1.5 seconds, at that she couldn't afford to run on the lower power modes that Hamilton and Bottas do in Q3, also let's not forget the tracks tend to ramp up a bit in speed when you get to Q3 if you're looking at that as being an ultimate time in Q1 which may not be the case?

Regarding Calderon in F2 I checked that because I'm sure her gap was bigger than 1.5 seconds, you found her most competitive qualifying, she averages more like 3 seconds slower, with Chadwick I did think that 1.5 seconds might be generous?

Why is Calderon the benchmark? Because she is also a woman? Does that make sense if they never raced in the same series? If you were to determine where, say, F3 driver Armstrong would compete in F1, would you refer to some male F2 backmarker ( like this Raghunathan guy, or Boschung) as a reference point ? Just wondering ...

Notwithstanding, I think Chadwick ( with full pre-season preparation) could beat a 2019-Kubica as teammate - but no one else from the current grid.