Re: Female Racing Drivers
Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:40 pm
Lyloff 20 seconds off the pole pace in Danish F4! Yikes.
Here's the incident that got the disqualification. The F1 drivers are certainly lucky these are not the stewards judging them... (I watched the clip muted, so I don't know if there is bad language between the dads for anyone watching at work)Battle Far wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:08 pmJuJu Noda was disqualified after crossing the line first in race 1 of the Danish F4 championship at Padborg Park. A last lap collision with Emerson Fiitipaldi Jnr which saw him spin into the gravel resulting in her exclusion. Race 2, run in wet conditions, saw her finish 6th and race 3 resulted in another collision which removed her front wing and finish 11th. Noda set fastest lap in both race 1 & 2.
Line Sonderskov, Millie Hoe & Laura Lylloff fiished 6th, 7th &10th in race 1. Hoe was 10th in race 2 while Sonderskov retired and Lylloff didn't start. Race 3 saw Sonderskov, Millie Hoe & Lylloff finish 7th, 8th & 12th respectively.
Exactly, this almost looked like a professional foul in football - the collision had been avoided and he then realised there wouldn't be a penalty without contact, so he made the contact, but did it too hard and put himself out.Exediron wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:49 pmMy read on that collision is that it's a rather inept racing incident on the part of both drivers, but certainly not deserving of a penalty as harsh as a DSQ for Noda.
She doesn't execute the dive very well; she locks up and goes straight, essentially just blocking Fittipaldi from taking the corner. However, I can't ignore the fact that he takes one bite at the turn-in and aborts, then takes a second bite and hits her. To me, that makes the actual contact his fault.
Clumsy incident all around.
It was nothing like a Ricciardo dive bomb. Dan was always in control, left the other driver plenty of space and made the corner. If anything this reminds me of Austria 2016, expect it wasn’t done deliberately.
For sure, the incident started out as her fault. And maybe you are right about the second turn in and it is 100% her fault. But in what universe is locking up a disqualification? Vettel only got a stop and go for deliberately ramming Hamilton behind the safety car. Disqualifications are pretty much reserved for dangerous and unsporting incidents, or technical infringements, this was none of those. It should have been time penalty, if it the incident was judged to be her fault.Banana Man wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:10 pmIt was nothing like a Ricciardo dive bomb. Dan was always in control, left the other driver plenty of space and made the corner. If anything this reminds me of Austria 2016, expect it wasn’t done deliberately.
As for the second turn in, it’s impossible to say from just that angle but he could either have been trying to cut under (he only just clipped her rear tyre) or, like Lewis in Austria, was running out of road and decided he had to turn in at some point or get run clean off the track. I suspect it’s the former, from that angle. Don’t forget when someone locks their brakes that severely, their rate of deceleration is going to be unpredictable and anything but linear. It’s quite possible he misjudged the erratic movement of her car in that moment.
A shame she didn’t get the win but she has to take the lion’s share of the blame for that one.
I don’t disagree, being DSQ seems incredibly harsh.Alienturnedhuman wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:20 pmFor sure, the incident started out as her fault. And maybe you are right about the second turn in and it is 100% her fault. But in what universe is locking up a disqualification? Vettel only got a stop and go for deliberately ramming Hamilton behind the safety car. Disqualifications are pretty much reserved for dangerous and unsporting incidents, or technical infringements, this was none of those. It should have been time penalty, if it the incident was judged to be her fault.Banana Man wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:10 pmIt was nothing like a Ricciardo dive bomb. Dan was always in control, left the other driver plenty of space and made the corner. If anything this reminds me of Austria 2016, expect it wasn’t done deliberately.
As for the second turn in, it’s impossible to say from just that angle but he could either have been trying to cut under (he only just clipped her rear tyre) or, like Lewis in Austria, was running out of road and decided he had to turn in at some point or get run clean off the track. I suspect it’s the former, from that angle. Don’t forget when someone locks their brakes that severely, their rate of deceleration is going to be unpredictable and anything but linear. It’s quite possible he misjudged the erratic movement of her car in that moment.
A shame she didn’t get the win but she has to take the lion’s share of the blame for that one.
That's possible, but I still see the collision as being his fault even if so. If he tried to execute a switchback maneuver on the driver who just dived him and he ran into her instead, that's his fault.Banana Man wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:10 pmAs for the second turn in, it’s impossible to say from just that angle but he could either have been trying to cut under (he only just clipped her rear tyre) or, like Lewis in Austria, was running out of road and decided he had to turn in at some point or get run clean off the track. I suspect it’s the former, from that angle. Don’t forget when someone locks their brakes that severely, their rate of deceleration is going to be unpredictable and anything but linear. It’s quite possible he misjudged the erratic movement of her car in that moment.
A shame she didn’t get the win but she has to take the lion’s share of the blame for that one.
That was one of the most outrageously bad stewarding decisions in modern F1. Vettel should have had a black flag and a race ban.Alienturnedhuman wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:20 pmVettel only got a stop and go for deliberately ramming Hamilton behind the safety car. Disqualifications are pretty much reserved for dangerous and unsporting incidents, or technical infringements, this was none of those.
How is it nothing like a Ricciardo dive bomb? There must be better examples but Hungary 2015 springs to mind where he does the exact same thing to Rosberg, ie locks his brakes and goes straight to the outside of the corner and leaves the other driver no other choice than go off or get passed.Banana Man wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:10 pmIt was nothing like a Ricciardo dive bomb. Dan was always in control, left the other driver plenty of space and made the corner. If anything this reminds me of Austria 2016, expect it wasn’t done deliberately.
As for the second turn in, it’s impossible to say from just that angle but he could either have been trying to cut under (he only just clipped her rear tyre) or, like Lewis in Austria, was running out of road and decided he had to turn in at some point or get run clean off the track. I suspect it’s the former, from that angle. Don’t forget when someone locks their brakes that severely, their rate of deceleration is going to be unpredictable and anything but linear. It’s quite possible he misjudged the erratic movement of her car in that moment.
A shame she didn’t get the win but she has to take the lion’s share of the blame for that one.
If you think that was the same as a Ricciardo dive bomb then I can’t help I’m afraid. Most of his overtakes were late, firm braking moves, where he was fully in control and the other car didn’t have to swerve out the way. Yes, I’m sure you can find a couple of examples where he overcooked it but it won’t excuse what Noda did. She was fully locked up and skidded straight on.Covalent wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:39 amHow is it nothing like a Ricciardo dive bomb? There must be better examples but Hungary 2015 springs to mind where he does the exact same thing to Rosberg, ie locks his brakes and goes straight to the outside of the corner and leaves the other driver no other choice than go off or get passed.Banana Man wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:10 pmIt was nothing like a Ricciardo dive bomb. Dan was always in control, left the other driver plenty of space and made the corner. If anything this reminds me of Austria 2016, expect it wasn’t done deliberately.
As for the second turn in, it’s impossible to say from just that angle but he could either have been trying to cut under (he only just clipped her rear tyre) or, like Lewis in Austria, was running out of road and decided he had to turn in at some point or get run clean off the track. I suspect it’s the former, from that angle. Don’t forget when someone locks their brakes that severely, their rate of deceleration is going to be unpredictable and anything but linear. It’s quite possible he misjudged the erratic movement of her car in that moment.
A shame she didn’t get the win but she has to take the lion’s share of the blame for that one.
Same. I haven't watched the full race but maybe she was frustrated and went for a move that was never really on. Anyway clearly her mistake. Fittipaldi did nothing wrong other than by the looks of it misjudge the cut back. When you see someone coming through like that, to be fair there are two steering actions - one to abort your initial entry and let them through and then the second back in to make the corner once they are past. I think he just made that 2nd move to quickly.Exediron wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:49 pmMy read on that collision is that it's a rather inept racing incident on the part of both drivers, but certainly not deserving of a penalty as harsh as a DSQ for Noda.
She doesn't execute the dive very well; she locks up and goes straight, essentially just blocking Fittipaldi from taking the corner. However, I can't ignore the fact that he takes one bite at the turn-in and aborts, then takes a second bite and hits her. To me, that makes the actual contact his fault.
Clumsy incident all around.
I have not, in fact. Do you know if it's available on demand in the USA?DOLOMITE wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:19 pmAnyone watched any of the W Series Driven episodes. I've watched them all. They're well made and offer a bit more insight but there's still not enough "racing driver talk" in it. The most interesting comments are from Dave Ryan offering his years of experience to assess the driving and pass some very honest judgement.
unless you can find a sneaky way to watch UK Channel 4 then no, not yet, but their site saysExediron wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:33 pmI have not, in fact. Do you know if it's available on demand in the USA?DOLOMITE wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:19 pmAnyone watched any of the W Series Driven episodes. I've watched them all. They're well made and offer a bit more insight but there's still not enough "racing driver talk" in it. The most interesting comments are from Dave Ryan offering his years of experience to assess the driving and pass some very honest judgement.
Try https://www.beinsports.com/us/Exediron wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:33 pmI have not, in fact. Do you know if it's available on demand in the USA?DOLOMITE wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:19 pmAnyone watched any of the W Series Driven episodes. I've watched them all. They're well made and offer a bit more insight but there's still not enough "racing driver talk" in it. The most interesting comments are from Dave Ryan offering his years of experience to assess the driving and pass some very honest judgement.
Stroll passed Ricciardo in Austria last year (Styrian GP) by pretty much running them both off circuit and, as far as I recall, didn't even get a penalty for it. Under what circumstance does this warrant a DQ?
None?tootsie323 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:16 amStroll passed Ricciardo in Austria last year (Styrian GP) by pretty much running them both off circuit and, as far as I recall, didn't even get a penalty for it. Under what circumstance does this warrant a DQ?
I was a bit reluctant to say what I was thinking but that sums up my thoughts pretty well. Reading posts about female drivers being bundled off with apparently no sanction to the perpetrators then reading about a female bundling someone off and being DQ'd.Battle Far wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:01 pmHaving seen that I have to say I'm disgusted with the decision, last year Noda was taken out 3 times by different male drivers, twice while leading. In the recent Italian F4 race Al Qubaisi was taken out by three different male drivers in all 3 races. In other races the intimidatory tactics employed by male drivers against females are wholly transparent.
There is clearly a culture of driving far more agressively against females, probably something to with 'small dyck syndrome'
It's almost as if there's a Dad on the side of the ̶p̶i̶t̶c̶h̶ track screaming at his child "you can't be beaten by a woman".
Female drivers need protection from the stewards not punishment, shame on them for being just as prejudiced as those on track.
Also, the fact that Emerson Fittipaldi was clearly kicking up a stink about it would probably also have a huge influence over the decision. While Noda's father is also ex F1, his name carries barely a fraction of the weight of a 2x WDC.tootsie323 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:24 amI was a bit reluctant to say what I was thinking but that sums up my thoughts pretty well. Reading posts about female drivers being bundled off with apparently no sanction to the perpetrators then reading about a female bundling someone off and being DQ'd.Battle Far wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:01 pmHaving seen that I have to say I'm disgusted with the decision, last year Noda was taken out 3 times by different male drivers, twice while leading. In the recent Italian F4 race Al Qubaisi was taken out by three different male drivers in all 3 races. In other races the intimidatory tactics employed by male drivers against females are wholly transparent.
There is clearly a culture of driving far more agressively against females, probably something to with 'small dyck syndrome'
It's almost as if there's a Dad on the side of the ̶p̶i̶t̶c̶h̶ track screaming at his child "you can't be beaten by a woman".
Female drivers need protection from the stewards not punishment, shame on them for being just as prejudiced as those on track.
It does smell a bit of some form of bias.