Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

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shay550
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Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by shay550 »

After seeing testing, I'm really optimistic that it's going to be a tighter race this year, and even though the Red Bulls, Ferrari's, Renault's will be in with a shout of the championship, I think both Macca boys will be in title contention come Interlagos. We've seen how Jenson has a narrow edge over Lewis when it comes to tyre management, but Lewis has the edge on Saturdays. If we see the Mclarens starting on pole / first row every weekend track position will be everything, and I think Lewis will get the best of Button. If, however, the Red Bulls/ (insert team here) dominate Saturdays, but the Mclarens have better race pace Button I think may have a slight edge. Either way, I'm really looking forward to Mclaren coming out the gate strong at Melbourne. I haven't been this impressed with their pre-season form in 4 years. I think we're in for a cracker!

paulsf1fix
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by paulsf1fix »

They are both amazing drivers, yes Hamilton has won more races but Button over the last few years has been mighty!

Jenson's problem is qualifying if he can get on top of that he'll be fine, Lewis's problem is sometimes his own race craft, yes he's a very talented driver and one of the best over takers in F1 but some times his overtaking moves go wrong and go against him...

I'm looking forward to their battle this year!

cmax
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by cmax »

hami will destroy Button this season. Hands down.

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Clarky
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by Clarky »

If Hamilton keeps his hands clean I'll expect to to beat Button.

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dizlexik
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by dizlexik »

Ross Brawn predict that: expecting the tightest start to a season we've seen for a number of years". I'm afraid that rivalry between Button and Hamilton will mean that none of McLaren drivers will win WDC.
eeee

lonix2011
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by lonix2011 »

paulsf1fix wrote:They are both amazing drivers, yes Hamilton has won more races but Button over the last few years has been mighty!

Jenson's problem is qualifying if he can get on top of that he'll be fine, Lewis's problem is sometimes his own race craft, yes he's a very talented driver and one of the best over takers in F1 but some times his overtaking moves go wrong and go against him...

I'm looking forward to their battle this year!

His second half of last year was much better, he had a few times almost out pipped Vettel and/or Lewis.

He even admitted he has changed his driving style to be more aggressive and has improved his qualifying pace. Not only has he actually out done Lewis last season with or without Lewis's problems but he was much closer to Lewis in terms of pace. JB has such amount of experience if JB was a team mate to Alonso I really do wonder who would come out on top. If LH is naturally a tad bit faster then Alonso on a single lap then that would make Alonso/JB a great combo as well.

I honestly do not know who to place a bet on when it comes to JB/LH.

JMILAT
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by JMILAT »

Hamilton has certainly looked the quicker of the two, especially in qualifying, but even even then the gap between them is very small. Infact at times last year he was even giving Hamilton a run for his money on speed alone. The only area where I see Hamilton has a big advantage over Button is his ability to drive with a difficult car. And it doesn't so far look like Mclaren are going to run into this problem too often. Ultimately Hamilton's undoing has been his ability to regularly find trouble. Even things that arn't all his fault he often ends up in situations where he loses out like in Canada where arguably he just takes too many risks. If he keeps himself out of trouble he will most likely win, but if not I can easily see Button beating him again.

If the car is competitive you would expect their drivers to be in the mix. But saying that I think last year whilst the Red Bull was clearly the car to have, I think the gap was made to look bigger than it actually was. If you look back last year Mclaren regularly had a very strong car, and certainly I think the gap between Vettel and the Mclaren drivers was probably more than the car actually was.

matzy
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by matzy »

I have no doubt that Hamilton, on average, is quicker. Its just that, on occasion, Jenson can get more out of the car, and he is less prone to have incident-filled races. That is a pretty lethal combination in a team-mate and, as we saw last season, it was enough to give him a better year. Either Lewis needs to out-pace him every race, or he needs to reduce the incidents (or both), else 2012 will be a repeat.

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slide
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by slide »

who cares which one gets the upper hand - together they make a brilliant pairing-possibly the best pairing on the grid,with consistant results/points for the greater good of the team-some on here can't get away from the idea, that they have to have bad vibes between them-even when they had a wall crunching moment , it was leveled out , and forgotten quite quickly .....now wouldn't ferrari like a driver combo like this . i also like how lewis and jenson are quite different in there approch, and driving styles - that fact makes supporting the team very interesting-add to the fact they have the best looking car by a country mile- i am really looking forward to the season and the end of another team dominating - brawn is right -its gonna be a tighter wdc this year

Big Arti
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by Big Arti »

cmax wrote:hami will destroy Button this season. Hands down.

Around the same time last year some have said exactly the same thing

I think and hope that's it gonna be close and will be great for us fans to watch

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petef1
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by petef1 »

cmax wrote:hami will destroy Button this season. Hands down.


Yes like he has the previous two seasons. Oh hang on wait a minute...
Purple Sector

Robbo-92
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by Robbo-92 »

cmax wrote:hami will destroy Button this season. Hands down.


People said that last year as well, how did that turn out? Button did not get destroyed in the 2010, only a 26 point difference.
So in both Button's seasons vs Hamilton I would not say that he has been destroyed.
Team Vettel, Ricciardo, Bottas and Button.

SnakeSVT2003
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by SnakeSVT2003 »

Big Arti wrote:
cmax wrote:hami will destroy Button this season. Hands down.

Around the same time last year some have said exactly the same thing

I think and hope that's it gonna be close and will be great for us fans to watch



I've said it the past two years. I'm not saying it anymore. I think it will be close.
"No, there is no terrible way to win. There is only winning."
Jean-Pierre Sarti

Steve_muzzy
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by Steve_muzzy »

Will be close

huge Hamilton fan however i put a tenner on button last week to win so win for me either way

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floydhead
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by floydhead »

I think unless you have a dominant car maturity counts for a heck of a lot. I used to be a real fan of Hamilton but how he's acted over the last year has really got on my nerves and I think it's showed up a real weakness in him. Sure you need talent, but when the going gets tough you need the ability to knuckle down and work at it, not whine like a spoiled schoolboy. He's the Tevez of F1.

That is all.
Lots of love,
A McLaren fan

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slide
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by slide »

not all of his clashes in 2011 were his fault , it seemed that whenever he got close to massa , massa's hamilton magnet was turned on to full strength :lol:

pendulumeffect
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by pendulumeffect »

I think this year is a clean slate for the McLaren boys. Can't say for sure if they will be fast but as long as one of them beats Vettel I'll be happy!

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MTD83
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by MTD83 »

I believe this will be too close to call, just hope they don't take too many points off each other!
I used to be indecisive, but now i'm not so sure...

ajmcl05
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by ajmcl05 »

I think it will be even-stevens.... JB is not as quick on a hai-'em scare'em lap, but over a GP can hold his own by keeping his head and making good calls. On the other hand, when LH 'gets it all together' i think he is unbeatable, it's just that he cannot do that consistently over 16+ races (happy to be proved wrong).

In certain respects I think that neither are 'complete' drivers, both superb and as good as anyone at what they are best at, but when it comes to the full deal, I don't think either really deliver across the whole season with all the various challenges thrown up. However, between the two of them they are the most complete in terms of driver line up.... just not individually.

In that respect I think SV and FA are 'more complete' and deliver the max in both race and qualifying trim.

...So i think that there will be little between LH and JB this year come the season's end. If there is, then you will be looking at one of them's career in a completely different light.
... and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark—that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.

silverstone24
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by silverstone24 »

lonix2011 wrote:
paulsf1fix wrote:They are both amazing drivers, yes Hamilton has won more races but Button over the last few years has been mighty!

Jenson's problem is qualifying if he can get on top of that he'll be fine, Lewis's problem is sometimes his own race craft, yes he's a very talented driver and one of the best over takers in F1 but some times his overtaking moves go wrong and go against him...

I'm looking forward to their battle this year!

His second half of last year was much better, he had a few times almost out pipped Vettel and/or Lewis.

He even admitted he has changed his driving style to be more aggressive and has improved his qualifying pace. Not only has he actually out done Lewis last season with or without Lewis's problems but he was much closer to Lewis in terms of pace. JB has such amount of experience if JB was a team mate to Alonso I really do wonder who would come out on top. If LH is naturally a tad bit faster then Alonso on a single lap then that would make Alonso/JB a great combo as well.

I honestly do not know who to place a bet on when it comes to JB/LH.


We talk about having a driving style, but this is arguably incorrect. It is more of a driving spectrum, with oversteer and understeer at either end. The drivers have a range of abilities that they have drive competitively in. Alonso is acknowledged as possibly the best all round driver as his range of abilities is the widest covering most of the 'spectrum'. I hope that made sense...

If Button has learnt to drive more aggressively, he has not lost the ability to drive smoothly, it is not a change, it is a wider range of skills. This is why he could do so well last year. He had a competitive car (unlike the Alonso comparison) and was developing a wider skill range. If he continues to do this he will beat Hamilton this year. Hamilton not only needs to mature as a person, but he needs to be more 'grown up' in the way he drives to get the best out of the pirelli tyres. They do not appreciate sliding round over a race distance.

The man who comes out ahead at McLaren this year will be the one who extends their skill range the most.

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orbthef1fan
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by orbthef1fan »

I really hope Hamilton comes out on top of Button, but I think it's too close to call at the mo. :nod:
#LH44 Hammer time!

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TakumaSatoforthewin
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by TakumaSatoforthewin »

I agree too close to call. Pretty sure that both will win races.

OB1UKAB
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by OB1UKAB »

floydhead wrote:I think unless you have a dominant car maturity counts for a heck of a lot. I used to be a real fan of Hamilton but how he's acted over the last year has really got on my nerves and I think it's showed up a real weakness in him. Sure you need talent, but when the going gets tough you need the ability to knuckle down and work at it, not whine like a spoiled schoolboy. He's the Tevez of F1.

That is all.

Lewis doesn't complain any more or less than any other driver!!! Not sure how you think he's a spoiled schoolboy??? And please explain how Lewis is the Tevez of F1???

Anyway getting back on topic... If Lewis can stop going for broke and loose the do or die attitude to racing he'll stand a good chance of beating Button. Saying that though if the McLaren car is to Button's liking Button stands a very good chance of becoming 2012 WDC.

lamo

Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by lamo »

Button will win races if their are changeable conditions. 4/5 of his Mclaren wins and over half his career wins were when the track was changing between dry and wet.

Hamilton will win races rain or shine.

robberred1993
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by robberred1993 »

dizlexik wrote:Ross Brawn predict that: expecting the tightest start to a season we've seen for a number of years". I'm afraid that rivalry between Button and Hamilton will mean that none of McLaren drivers will win WDC.


Fancy posting a link to support that?

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f1madman
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by f1madman »

I think Lewis will beat Jenson hands down this year. Jenson had a GREAT year last season but Lewis had a poor season, however had Lewis just been at his own average level,he probably would've beaten Jenson. Lewis was leading all his competitors but Vettel, in the first part of the season and has lead the second highest number of laps in the season. He's definitely not fairy cakes even if by his standards he was fairy cakes.

If Lewis has a GREAT season, he could beat the RedBulls to the championship. If he has a good season he'll beat Jenson comfortably.
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floydhead
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by floydhead »

lamo wrote:Button will win races if their are changeable conditions. 4/5 of his Mclaren wins and over half his career wins were when the track was changing between dry and wet.

Hamilton will win races rain or shine.


Well if you're going to base your argument on wins alone, then this is a debate between Button and Hamilton, and judging from last year Button is certainly capable of out scoring Hamilton on a dry track. Vettel thwarted Button in most of his dry win chances last year not Hamilton.
Lots of love,
A McLaren fan

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floydhead
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by floydhead »

f1madman wrote:I think Lewis will beat Jenson hands down this year. Jenson had a GREAT year last season but Lewis had a poor season, however had Lewis just been at his own average level,he probably would've beaten Jenson. Lewis was leading all his competitors but Vettel, in the first part of the season and has lead the second highest number of laps in the season. He's definitely not fairy cakes even if by his standards he was fairy cakes.

If Lewis has a GREAT season, he could beat the RedBulls to the championship. If he has a good season he'll beat Jenson comfortably.


Does everyone think Lewis was abducted by aliens and had all his talent sucked out via anal probing last year?
He let his personal life affect him THAT much? For 3/4 of the season?
I would have expected him to show it more on a Saturday than he did if he was that screwed up, but he still managed to out-qualify Button 12 - 7.
Must have been a Sunday thing.

Personally, I don't remember him moaning about his personal life until after Button was outscoring him.
Lots of love,
A McLaren fan

OB1UKAB
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by OB1UKAB »

floydhead wrote:
f1madman wrote:I think Lewis will beat Jenson hands down this year. Jenson had a GREAT year last season but Lewis had a poor season, however had Lewis just been at his own average level,he probably would've beaten Jenson. Lewis was leading all his competitors but Vettel, in the first part of the season and has lead the second highest number of laps in the season. He's definitely not fairy cakes even if by his standards he was fairy cakes.

If Lewis has a GREAT season, he could beat the RedBulls to the championship. If he has a good season he'll beat Jenson comfortably.


Does everyone think Lewis was abducted by aliens and had all his talent sucked out via anal probing last year?
He let his personal life affect him THAT much? For 3/4 of the season?
I would have expected him to show it more on a Saturday than he did if he was that screwed up, but he still managed to out-qualify Button 12 - 7.
Must have been a Sunday thing.

Personally, I don't remember him moaning about his personal life until after Button was outscoring him.


You must be suffering from that 'selective memory syndrome'! When Button has a bad weekend and complains about the setup that's okay to people like you. But when Lewis has a bad weekend and freely says 'I just wasn't quick enough' you say he's moaning.

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f1madman
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by f1madman »

floydhead wrote:
f1madman wrote:I think Lewis will beat Jenson hands down this year. Jenson had a GREAT year last season but Lewis had a poor season, however had Lewis just been at his own average level,he probably would've beaten Jenson. Lewis was leading all his competitors but Vettel, in the first part of the season and has lead the second highest number of laps in the season. He's definitely not fairy cakes even if by his standards he was fairy cakes.

If Lewis has a GREAT season, he could beat the RedBulls to the championship. If he has a good season he'll beat Jenson comfortably.


Does everyone think Lewis was abducted by aliens and had all his talent sucked out via anal probing last year?
Who said that, thanks for this positive post?

He let his personal life affect him THAT much? For 3/4 of the season?
Again, I didn't say that.

Personally, I don't remember him moaning about his personal life until after Button was outscoring him.
Interestingly I don't remember Lewis complaining about his personal life until AFTER he got the first non-redbull pole position.
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4Dixie
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by 4Dixie »

I recall an interview last year when Sir Frank was stating that every 10 years a special talent comes into F1. The talent he spoke abount was Lewis, not Vettel or Alonso. I have watched this sport since 1980 and Button is not in the same league as Hamilton. How many times did Lewis pass his teamate last year. I recall 7-8 early on in the season. I never recall Button passing Hamilton.

lamo

Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by lamo »

Lewis has his worst season ever and well below par...
Jenson has his best season ever...

Speak volumes of their respective talents when you look at the statistics.

Qualifying:
Hamilton 12
Button 7

Ahead when both finished:
Hamilton 7
Button 7

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floydhead
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by floydhead »

f1madman wrote:
floydhead wrote:
f1madman wrote:I think Lewis will beat Jenson hands down this year. Jenson had a GREAT year last season but Lewis had a poor season, however had Lewis just been at his own average level,he probably would've beaten Jenson. Lewis was leading all his competitors but Vettel, in the first part of the season and has lead the second highest number of laps in the season. He's definitely not fairy cakes even if by his standards he was fairy cakes.

If Lewis has a GREAT season, he could beat the RedBulls to the championship. If he has a good season he'll beat Jenson comfortably.


Does everyone think Lewis was abducted by aliens and had all his talent sucked out via anal probing last year?
Who said that, thanks for this positive post?

He let his personal life affect him THAT much? For 3/4 of the season?
Again, I didn't say that.

Personally, I don't remember him moaning about his personal life until after Button was outscoring him.
Interestingly I don't remember Lewis complaining about his personal life until AFTER he got the first non-redbull pole position.


Firstly I apologise if the post sounded aggressive, after reading it back.
The point I'm trying to make is that I don't believe what we saw last season was Lewis massively under performing. Personally, I think the tyres were the main reason we saw Button outscoring Hamilton last year. The driving styles of the two McLaren boys are complete opposites and the Pirelli's were something completely new to F1, suited Button big time and were a real handicap to Hamilton's driving style on Sundays.
Pirelli have changed the tyres again this year and judging from an Autosport article the changes will benefit Lewis.

I'm just getting annoyed with 'Lewis had a bad year, that's the only reason Button outscored him' style posts.
Lots of love,
A McLaren fan

sandman1347
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by sandman1347 »

I look for Hamilton to beat Jenson this season. Last year was a low point for Lewis but I think this year will be different. He is the quicker of the two and if he can stay out of trouble, I think he should win out. I also believe that McLaren might not be in such a chasing position this year. That might allow Lewis to start some races from pole and have the advantage of clean air (a massive advantage).

JB2012
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by JB2012 »

4Dixie wrote:I recall an interview last year when Sir Frank was stating that every 10 years a special talent comes into F1. The talent he spoke abount was Lewis, not Vettel or Alonso. I have watched this sport since 1980 and Button is not in the same league as Hamilton. How many times did Lewis pass his teamate last year. I recall 7-8 early on in the season. I never recall Button passing Hamilton.


Well you have a pretty awful memory then.

JB2012
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by JB2012 »

It seems that JB must have to win all 20 races this season to earn respect from all these Hamilton fan boys on here.

JB beat Hamilton fair and square last season. He finished 43 points ahead of him.
And by no stretch of the imagination did Hamilton have an awful season.

1. Buttons form contributed to hamiltons downfall, and then gave his personal life as his excuse 3/4 of the way into the season.

2. Button has proved he is as good as anyone in the dry, and at many a time has proved more than capable of matching Hamilton, for example Monaco, Spain, Japan.

3. All this tosh about Hamiltons pace being miles quicker must stop. He only beat him 12-7 or something in qualifying and at least 5 of those times button was less than a tenth behind.

4. If you want pathetic excuses like Lewis gave, buttons ONLY 2 retirements last season were NOT HIS FAULT. Unlike LH. they could have cost him about 30 points.

5. To the man with the selective memory, Lewis past him once at China, and they both exchanged places at Hungary and Turkey. JB also past Lewis at Japan and Italy, so he infact did not get past JB 7 or 8 times without reply.

6. Jenson is, in my, or any unbiased opinion a more complete driver than Lewis is. And legends in the sport such as Moss, Damon hill and Christian Horner have taken that into account.

COME ON JB, WDC 2012!!

Give these Hamilton fan boys A SECOND CONSECUTIVE slice of humble pie.

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Johnston
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by Johnston »

lamo wrote:Lewis has his worst season ever and well below par...
Jenson has his best season ever...

Speak volumes of their respective talents when you look at the statistics.

Qualifying:
Hamilton 12
Button 7

Ahead when both finished:
Hamilton 7
Button 7



There is one important stat missing.

How many times did Button DNF through driver error. How many times did Lewis?

A season is over 20 races winning 10 is no good if you don't finish the rest and your competitor scores good points at every race.
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

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floydhead
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by floydhead »

The real winner here is McLaren. :]
They've two drivers who have totally different styles and excel in completely different areas and Mclaren can be sure they'll have a driver at the front end of things no matter what the conditions or the track.
Lots of love,
A McLaren fan

Wuxa
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by Wuxa »

Johnston wrote:
lamo wrote:Lewis has his worst season ever and well below par...
Jenson has his best season ever...

Speak volumes of their respective talents when you look at the statistics.

Qualifying:
Hamilton 12
Button 7

Ahead when both finished:
Hamilton 7
Button 7



There is one important stat missing.

How many times did Button DNF through driver error. How many times did Lewis?

A season is over 20 races winning 10 is no good if you don't finish the rest and your competitor scores good points at every race.


Great post :thumbup:

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f1madman
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Re: Hamilton vs Button 2012 (Championship Edition)

Post by f1madman »

Wow so is it now Lewis fans vs Jenson fans or what?

Anyway I peeked into F1 racing while in WHSmith today and over the last 2 seasons, Lewis has 1 more win (7-6), 2 more poles (2-0) and generally finishes ahead when both finish and in qualy, but Jenson has 20 more points and 5 more podiums (14-9).

Basically Jenson has been more consistent but Lewis is faster, and when doing well enough to get podium... is likely actually getting a win.

Disclaimer: those stats are what I think I remembered they're probably a little wrong.
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