Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

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Gondo
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Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by Gondo »

The best car in the fly away races and all we have to show for it is second place in both championships.

Too many mistakes, you do not win championships like that, ever! Every season McLaren make scandalous mistakes in the pits, be it poor strategy calls or poor pit stops. Every season it's more of the same. The buck has to stop somewhere, at some point something has to give.

Is Martin the right guy to lead McLaren to the top? Every season I doubt it more and more!

Formula1Fan.
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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh!

Post by Formula1Fan. »

Bit reactionary no? weren't Button and Hamilton 1st and 2nd in the championship going into this race with McLaren ahead in the Championship?

Chill, it's a long season and they've looked good so far.
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Johnston
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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by Johnston »

Wasn't Martin changing tyres.
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

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LukasMueller
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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh!

Post by LukasMueller »

Formula1Fan. wrote:Bit reactionary no? weren't Button and Hamilton 1st and 2nd in the championship going into this race with McLaren ahead in the Championship?

Chill, it's a long season and they've looked good so far.


:thumbup: :thumbup:
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wonder81
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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by wonder81 »

If I was hamilton I would question bringing in Button before me in the 1st round of pitstops. What happened to lead driver gets priority on pits :?

I would also question the lack of race pace, where they have been out fought and out smarted by their nearest competitor

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Johnston
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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by Johnston »

wonder81 wrote:If I was hamilton I would question bringing in Button before me in the 1st round of pitstops. What happened to lead driver gets priority on pits :?

I would also question the lack of race pace, where they have been out fought and out smarted by their nearest competitor



Because if the lead driver doesn't want to pit on that lap and the other guy does they bring him in.

Same happened last week Hamiltion was behind but was brought in first.
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

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Raifosa
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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by Raifosa »

wonder81 wrote:If I was hamilton I would question bringing in Button before me in the 1st round of pitstops. What happened to lead driver gets priority on pits :?

I would also question the lack of race pace, where they have been out fought and out smarted by their nearest competitor

It's a bit of a mystery isn't it?
Lewis was leading the WDC, qualified ahead and was ahead in the race. Yet JB pitted first again...
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WelshWayne1978
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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by WelshWayne1978 »

wonder81 wrote:If I was hamilton I would question bringing in Button before me in the 1st round of pitstops. What happened to lead driver gets priority on pits :?

I would also question the lack of race pace, where they have been out fought and out smarted by their nearest competitor


Yes the do but how do we know that this did not take place
Team: Lewis do you want to pit this lap
Lewis: No
Team: JB do you want to pit this lap
JB: Yes please!
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WelshWayne1978
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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by WelshWayne1978 »

Johnston wrote:
wonder81 wrote:If I was hamilton I would question bringing in Button before me in the 1st round of pitstops. What happened to lead driver gets priority on pits :?

I would also question the lack of race pace, where they have been out fought and out smarted by their nearest competitor



Because if the lead driver doesn't want to pit on that lap and the other guy does they bring him in.

Same happened last week Hamiltion was behind but was brought in first.


:thumbup: why can't some LH fans see this as a reason?!
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Raifosa
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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by Raifosa »

Johnston wrote:
wonder81 wrote:If I was hamilton I would question bringing in Button before me in the 1st round of pitstops. What happened to lead driver gets priority on pits :?

I would also question the lack of race pace, where they have been out fought and out smarted by their nearest competitor



Because if the lead driver doesn't want to pit on that lap and the other guy does they bring him in.

Same happened last week Hamiltion was behind but was brought in first.

Really? Lewis times were tumbling down and he didn't want to pit? seriously?
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Johnston
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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by Johnston »

Raifosa wrote:
Johnston wrote:
wonder81 wrote:If I was hamilton I would question bringing in Button before me in the 1st round of pitstops. What happened to lead driver gets priority on pits :?

I would also question the lack of race pace, where they have been out fought and out smarted by their nearest competitor



Because if the lead driver doesn't want to pit on that lap and the other guy does they bring him in.

Same happened last week Hamiltion was behind but was brought in first.

Really? Lewis times were tumbling down and he didn't want to pit? seriously?



Well last weekend Hamiltion was 2nd driver and they pitted him first.

Maybe after all the conspiracy theorists they have changed the rules to the 2nd man gets dibs.

Don't forget it's not all about times its also about how long they think they can go on the tyres planned on the next stints.
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

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Seanie
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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by Seanie »

WelshWayne1978 wrote:
wonder81 wrote:If I was hamilton I would question bringing in Button before me in the 1st round of pitstops. What happened to lead driver gets priority on pits :?

I would also question the lack of race pace, where they have been out fought and out smarted by their nearest competitor


Yes the do but how do we know that this did not take place
Team: Lewis do you want to pit this lap
Lewis: No
Team: JB do you want to pit this lap
JB: Yes please!

Exactly, Just because Jenson pitted first, doesn't mean Lewis wasn't given the option. You can't expect the second teammate to stay out a long as the first driver demands.


Anyway, this is bit of a knee jerk reaction? I mean firing the team boss because the airguns aren't working properly? Perhaps try and fix the problem before cutting off the head? Its not as if they're 4 races in with 0 points either. It was just a poor weekend. If we sacked people for one poor weekend, no one would be in F1 very long.
Warning: The above post may contain sarcasm.

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phazblade
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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by phazblade »

WelshWayne1978 wrote:
wonder81 wrote:Yes the do but how do we know that this did not take place
Team: Lewis do you want to pit this lap
Lewis: No
Team: JB do you want to pit this lap
JB: Yes please!


Actually

Team: Lewis do you want to pit this lap
Lewis: No way, you can try those poxy Wheel Nuts on JBs car
I'm not slowing down for Nico ........

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M.Nader -DODZ-
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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh!

Post by M.Nader -DODZ- »

Formula1Fan. wrote:Bit reactionary no? weren't Button and Hamilton 1st and 2nd in the championship going into this race with McLaren ahead in the Championship?

Chill, it's a long season and they've looked good so far.


I don't think the OP is over reacting.

I seem to believe that Mclaren have had the best car so far, which can be evident from either their qualifying or race performance on any given weekend, yet they only have 1 win to their name.

I think that if RBR had the car Mclaren have, they would have dominated using the small advantage they have and made it look more than it is.

that's my opinion, but i still hate these Fire Whitmarsh every time someone sneezes, he seems to be doing a decent job running the team with two excellent drivers, history is good and they have produced a wining car (which i still think is the best this season)

smoothcrim
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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by smoothcrim »

Haha Mclaren fans are quick to sink the knife.

Will be interesting to see who has the fastest car in Barca.

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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by cmax »

Bring Ron Back!!

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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by Raifosa »

Johnston wrote:
Raifosa wrote:
Johnston wrote:
wonder81 wrote:If I was hamilton I would question bringing in Button before me in the 1st round of pitstops. What happened to lead driver gets priority on pits :?

I would also question the lack of race pace, where they have been out fought and out smarted by their nearest competitor



Because if the lead driver doesn't want to pit on that lap and the other guy does they bring him in.

Same happened last week Hamiltion was behind but was brought in first.

Really? Lewis times were tumbling down and he didn't want to pit? seriously?



Well last weekend Hamiltion was 2nd driver and they pitted him first.

Maybe after all the conspiracy theorists they have changed the rules to the 2nd man gets dibs.

Don't forget it's not all about times its also about how long they think they can go on the tyres planned on the next stints.

And they got him out in the worst possible traffic. JB said on the BBC after the race that his RE didn't want to pit him at that lap exactly because of that (traffic).

First it was whoever is in front in the race gets 1st call. Then it was whoever leads the WDC. Now it is because the lead driver doesn't want to pit even though his tyres are shredded... yeah right
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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by Venomal »

Since the championship is so damn close this season! I race out of the points for any of the top 6 drivers will make them rue out their misfortune.

P.S: McLaren just couldn't get things right in this race.
--Veno--

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Johnston
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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by Johnston »

Raifosa wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Raifosa wrote:
Johnston wrote:
wonder81 wrote:If I was hamilton I would question bringing in Button before me in the 1st round of pitstops. What happened to lead driver gets priority on pits :?

I would also question the lack of race pace, where they have been out fought and out smarted by their nearest competitor



Because if the lead driver doesn't want to pit on that lap and the other guy does they bring him in.

Same happened last week Hamiltion was behind but was brought in first.

Really? Lewis times were tumbling down and he didn't want to pit? seriously?



Well last weekend Hamiltion was 2nd driver and they pitted him first.

Maybe after all the conspiracy theorists they have changed the rules to the 2nd man gets dibs.

Don't forget it's not all about times its also about how long they think they can go on the tyres planned on the next stints.

And they got him out in the worst possible traffic. JB said on the BBC after the race that his RE didn't want to pit him at that lap exactly because of that (traffic).

First it was whoever is in front in the race gets 1st call. Then it was whoever leads the WDC. Now it is because the lead driver doesn't want to pit even though his tyres are shredded... yeah right



When was it ever who leads the wdc?

You really think after 4 races if Buttion was getting preferential treatment Lewis wouldn't be getting tiddled off?
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

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Seanie
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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by Seanie »

cmax wrote:Bring Ron Back!!

Because McLaren never had a bad weekend under his leadership........... :twisted:
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wonder81
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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by wonder81 »

Forgetting the botched pitstops the Mclaren was still near a 30 seconds behind the leader. Poor, average race pace and poor strategy from the pitwall have dogged mclaren so far this season! :frown:

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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by RunningMan »

What will this acheive?

It's a problem with the pit stop crew and the equipment. Sacking whitmarsh won't make a difference
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ashley313
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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by ashley313 »

Why do all Hammy fans think the first pit stop is always the best? Sometimes the driver is happy on the tires, sometimes pitting the lead driver first will drop him back into too much traffic, etc. Stop being silly.


McLaren team manager needs to crack the whip though.
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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by raider-hall »

the pitcrews needs hard training period!

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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by trullifan97 »

Whitmarsh shouldn't be fired.

But having Ron back in F1 would be cool :D

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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by Raifosa »

Johnston wrote:When was it ever who leads the wdc?

You really think after 4 races if Buttion was getting preferential treatment Lewis wouldn't be getting tiddled off?

After Malaysia or China I think (due to a tweet from an ex McLaren mech).
Well I have no idea how he really feels do you? I think after the Monaco incident he tries really hard to keep his emotions hidden in front of the cameras. Not always succesful though, i.e: Melbourne
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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by dizlexik »

trullifan97 wrote:Whitmarsh shouldn't be fired.

But having Ron back in F1 would be cool :D

Ron was in McLaren garage.
eeee

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Johnston
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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by Johnston »

Raifosa wrote:
Johnston wrote:When was it ever who leads the wdc?

You really think after 4 races if Buttion was getting preferential treatment Lewis wouldn't be getting tiddled off?

After Malaysia or China I think (due to a tweet from an ex McLaren mech).
Well I have no idea how he really feels do you? I think after the Monaco incident he tries really hard to keep his emotions hidden in front of the cameras. Not always succesful though, i.e: Melbourne



Is a tweet from an EX mechanic a reliable source?
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

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Seanie
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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by Seanie »

I don't see the issue with Jenson pitting first? Its not affected Lewis' race has it? He's not moaning about the strategy or anything so why are the fanz making an issue out of it? :uhoh:
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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by H-Holloway »

Some fans of Lewis Hamilton are really starting to get paranoid....last week they pitted Hamilton first when Button was leading, did any Button fans cry foul? Last week Button had the same problems as Hamilton, did Button fans cry foul? This week Button had a DNF due to a faulty car, are Button fans crying foul?

McLaren have been disappointing this year and haven't taken advantage, but these conspiracy crap is just getting out of hand. Some people can't seem to take it that Hamilton is being essentially matched by his team mate.
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dizlexik
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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by dizlexik »

Seanie wrote:I don't see the issue with Jenson pitting first? Its not affected Lewis' race has it? He's not moaning about the strategy or anything so why are the fanz making an issue out of it? :uhoh:

I also fail to understand what is wrong with this. Maybe Lewis managed his tires better than Button?
eeee

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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by Raifosa »

Johnston wrote:
Raifosa wrote:
Johnston wrote:When was it ever who leads the wdc?

You really think after 4 races if Buttion was getting preferential treatment Lewis wouldn't be getting tiddled off?

After Malaysia or China I think (due to a tweet from an ex McLaren mech).
Well I have no idea how he really feels do you? I think after the Monaco incident he tries really hard to keep his emotions hidden in front of the cameras. Not always succesful though, i.e: Melbourne



Is a tweet from an EX mechanic a reliable source?

Perhaps not but I was just pointing out the various 'reasons' we had to put up as to why JB always seems to gets 1st call. The tweet was before Malaysia btw.

Marc Priestley ‏ @f1elvis
Jenson gets first call on strategy in today's race as he's currently ahead in the championship. That's how McLaren make that decision.

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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by sandman1347 »

I think that Whitmarsh is a poor team principal. I don't base that on this one race or even the first 4 races of this season. I base it on what I have observed since he took over back in 2009.

My observation is that McLaren have a major problem with the way they approach race strategy. They are too conservative and they are too reactionary. They do not press their advantage when they have one. They constantly wait for other teams to do something first before they do it themselves.

As someone pointed out earlier, teams like Red Bull have maximized their advantage when they've had it (even if the advantage wasn't very large). There were times when the RB7 wasn't totally dominant but the tiny advantage that they had was maximized through aggressive, proactive race strategy. This is coming from the pit wall; not the drivers.

Red Bull's run kind of reminds me of the Schumacher/Ferrari days when Schumi would get a radio message like, "okay now Michael we need 10 quick laps" and he would do what they asked. He had complete trust in the team to manage the strategy and he could focus on driving the car.

With McLaren, it's not like that. The team is behind on strategy and the drivers lose out if they rely on them to make the decisions. In fact, many of Jenson's best McLaren performances have been through making his own calls rather than relying on the pit wall. The things that have happened with Lewis's strategy over the last few years are appalling. We're easily into double digits now in the number of potential race wins that have been squandered through either poor strategy or poor pit work.

That's the other thing. This pit crew has been abysmal. To suffer from the exact same problem in multiple stops of multiple grands prix is just not acceptable. This team needs better leadership in my opinion.

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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by Drangetta322 »

sandman1347 wrote:I think that Whitmarsh is a poor team principal. I don't base that on this one race or even the first 4 races of this season. I base it on what I have observed since he took over back in 2009.

My observation is that McLaren have a major problem with the way they approach race strategy. They are too conservative and they are too reactionary. They do not press their advantage when they have one. They constantly wait for other teams to do something first before they do it themselves.

As someone pointed out earlier, teams like Red Bull have maximized their advantage when they've had it (even if the advantage wasn't very large). There were times when the RB7 wasn't totally dominant but the tiny advantage that they had was maximized through aggressive, proactive race strategy. This is coming from the pit wall; not the drivers.

Red Bull's run kind of reminds me of the Schumacher/Ferrari days when Schumi would get a radio message like, "okay now Michael we need 10 quick laps" and he would do what they asked. He had complete trust in the team to manage the strategy and he could focus on driving the car.

With McLaren, it's not like that. The team is behind on strategy and the drivers lose out if they rely on them to make the decisions. In fact, many of Jenson's best McLaren performances have been through making his own calls rather than relying on the pit wall. The things that have happened with Lewis's strategy over the last few years are appalling. We're easily into double digits now in the number of potential race wins that have been squandered through either poor strategy or poor pit work.

That's the other thing. This pit crew has been abysmal. To suffer from the exact same problem in multiple stops of multiple grands prix is just not acceptable. This team needs better leadership in my opinion.



Well said i've been saying this for a while now. Fire Withmarsh.

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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by sinstorm »

sandman1347 wrote:I think that Whitmarsh is a poor team principal. I don't base that on this one race or even the first 4 races of this season. I base it on what I have observed since he took over back in 2009.

My observation is that McLaren have a major problem with the way they approach race strategy. They are too conservative and they are too reactionary. They do not press their advantage when they have one. They constantly wait for other teams to do something first before they do it themselves.

As someone pointed out earlier, teams like Red Bull have maximized their advantage when they've had it (even if the advantage wasn't very large). There were times when the RB7 wasn't totally dominant but the tiny advantage that they had was maximized through aggressive, proactive race strategy. This is coming from the pit wall; not the drivers.

Red Bull's run kind of reminds me of the Schumacher/Ferrari days when Schumi would get a radio message like, "okay now Michael we need 10 quick laps" and he would do what they asked. He had complete trust in the team to manage the strategy and he could focus on driving the car.

With McLaren, it's not like that. The team is behind on strategy and the drivers lose out if they rely on them to make the decisions. In fact, many of Jenson's best McLaren performances have been through making his own calls rather than relying on the pit wall. The things that have happened with Lewis's strategy over the last few years are appalling. We're easily into double digits now in the number of potential race wins that have been squandered through either poor strategy or poor pit work.

That's the other thing. This pit crew has been abysmal. To suffer from the exact same problem in multiple stops of multiple grands prix is just not acceptable. This team needs better leadership in my opinion.

Eloquently put! Couldn't agree more. At this rate they may as well look towards 2013 as any car advantage they had is getted squandered by kindergarten trackside/garage fluff-ups :frown:
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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by M.Nader -DODZ- »

H-Holloway wrote:Some fans of Lewis Hamilton are really starting to get paranoid....last week they pitted Hamilton first when Button was leading, did any Button fans cry foul? Last week Button had the same problems as Hamilton, did Button fans cry foul? This week Button had a DNF due to a faulty car, are Button fans crying foul?

McLaren have been disappointing this year and haven't taken advantage, but these conspiracy crap is just getting out of hand. Some people can't seem to take it that Hamilton is being essentially matched by his team mate.


Yeah, i am sick of the conspiracies going on

sandman1347 wrote:My observation is that McLaren have a major problem with the way they approach race strategy. They are too conservative and they are too reactionary. They do not press their advantage when they have one. They constantly wait for other teams to do something first before they do it themselves.

As someone pointed out earlier, teams like Red Bull have maximized their advantage when they've had it (even if the advantage wasn't very large). There were times when the RB7 wasn't totally dominant but the tiny advantage that they had was maximized through aggressive, proactive race strategy. This is coming from the pit wall; not the drivers.

Red Bull's run kind of reminds me of the Schumacher/Ferrari days when Schumi would get a radio message like, "okay now Michael we need 10 quick laps" and he would do what they asked. He had complete trust in the team to manage the strategy and he could focus on driving the car.

With McLaren, it's not like that. The team is behind on strategy and the drivers lose out if they rely on them to make the decisions. In fact, many of Jenson's best McLaren performances have been through making his own calls rather than relying on the pit wall. The things that have happened with Lewis's strategy over the last few years are appalling. We're easily into double digits now in the number of potential race wins that have been squandered through either poor strategy or poor pit work.

That's the other thing. This pit crew has been abysmal. To suffer from the exact same problem in multiple stops of multiple grands prix is just not acceptable. This team needs better leadership in my opinion.


I Think Whitmarsh is doing a decent job, but i agree with the team being reactive and not showing what the car/drivers are capable of

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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh!

Post by lonix2011 »

Formula1Fan. wrote:Bit reactionary no? weren't Button and Hamilton 1st and 2nd in the championship going into this race with McLaren ahead in the Championship?

Chill, it's a long season and they've looked good so far.

This.

FAR OTT to fire him.

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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by FI-Reserve »

No keep him! Di Resta bagged good points. Thanks Martin!
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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by wonder81 »

Is the MP-27 even that fast? Both drivers complaining about a lack of race pace and the team consistently getting out raced by other teams who have a better set ups or are suited to the track :?

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Re: Fire Martin Whitmarsh please!

Post by ashley313 »

wonder81 wrote:Is the MP-27 even that fast? Both drivers complaining about a lack of race pace and the team consistently getting out raced by other teams who have a better set ups or are suited to the track :?

Lewis has still been incredibly fast just about everywhere. I don't think the car is really the problem. Jenson seems much pickier about his setup and has at times, like today, been nowhere with it. Pretty confident Lewis would have been right with the leaders today if it weren't for the pit stop fumbles. I believe he was still putting up fast laps toward the end of the race. I hope this doesn't hurt him mentally...he has been in a good place lately.
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