questions you want answered thread.

wire2004 · Post by **wire2004** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:54 pm

It's similar to the quiz thread. Thought we could start a questions you want answered thread.

the answer person to quote the question asking the question.

Like this

who won the most world championships.

Michael schumacher

I do have a question I would like to answer.

Has any grand prix had a grid where the whilst grid 1st to last lined up 2 by 2 formation
Eg. Pair of mclarens. Pair of ferraris. Pair of red bulls. Pair of Mercedes etc to last place
If not. What has been the most 2 by 2 formations to what position.

huggybear · Post by **huggybear** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:03 pm

2002 European had the first 8 cars in team order: Williams, Ferrari, Mclaren, Renault. Not sure if there is a grid with more

Biffa · Post by **Biffa** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:19 pm

Should the Bahrain GP go ahead?

Just joking.... (had a few beers - not even funny I know)

Real question; which driver has driven for the most different teams?

(potentially future classic post btw :thumbup:

)

robgowen90 · Post by **robgowen90** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:27 pm

Which driver has completed the most races without ever completing a whole championship season? always wondered

huggybear · Post by **huggybear** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:45 pm

Biffa wrote:Should the Bahrain GP go ahead?

Just joking.... (had a few beers - not even funny I know)

Real question; which driver has driven for the most different teams?

(potentially future classic post btw )

Roberto Moreno with 8 different teams is going to be hard to beat.

But Andrea de Cesaris does, with 10.

edit: Rob, most I could find was DJ Sakon, with 21 races but no complete seasons.

Volantary · Post by **Volantary** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:58 pm

huggybear wrote:
Biffa wrote:Should the Bahrain GP go ahead?

Just joking.... (had a few beers - not even funny I know)

Real question; which driver has driven for the most different teams?

(potentially future classic post btw )

Roberto Moreno with 8 different teams is going to be hard to beat.

But Andrea de Cesaris does, with 10.

edit: Rob, most I could find was DJ Sakon, with 21 races but no complete seasons.

I like the latter question, I was going to chip in with Lehto but forgot he dragged a Dallara round for years.

Are we including the Indy 500? If we are there are a few in the 50s.

EDIT: Pizzonia has 20, almost beat Sakon!

EDIT2: Luca Badoer has 50 starts, his 1 "complete" season has 2 DNS's. Does that count?

Volantary · Post by **Volantary** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:20 pm

Volantary wrote:
huggybear wrote:
Biffa wrote:Should the Bahrain GP go ahead?

Just joking.... (had a few beers - not even funny I know)

Real question; which driver has driven for the most different teams?

(potentially future classic post btw )

Roberto Moreno with 8 different teams is going to be hard to beat.

But Andrea de Cesaris does, with 10.

edit: Rob, most I could find was DJ Sakon, with 21 races but no complete seasons.

I like the latter question, I was going to chip in with Lehto but forgot he dragged a Dallara round for years.

Are we including the Indy 500? If we are there are a few in the 50s.

EDIT: Pizzonia has 20, almost beat Sakon!

EDIT2: Luca Badoer has 50 starts, his 1 "complete" season has 2 DNS's. Does that count?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Salvadori, 47 starts. I've spent far too long researching that...

cmax · Post by **cmax** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:28 pm

When cars are racing when does the hot air from the front car end affecting the following car and slip stream begin?
Something I was always curious about, mostly in the pre-DRS commentary where the commentator would go the hot air coming from the front car is affecting the following car which makes it almost impossible for the car behind to overtake, but in a another situation the
the car behind is said to have caught a slip stream vastly improving its chances of overtaking.

FormulaFun · Post by **FormulaFun** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:54 pm

cmax - Slipstreaming is the result of less downforce and air passing over the car, this hurts the following car through corners as it has less downforce, but along the straights it is beneficial to the following car as less air resistance = more top speed. So basically it hurts them in corners but down straights the car can slipstream

bouncemaker · Post by **bouncemaker** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:01 pm

The air streams turbulence/wake depends on how fast the car in front is going, what it's shape is, whether it's on a curve or on a straight, and a host of variables like temperature, humidity, wind speed, etc. I.E., the numerical answer is not a constant, but is variable itself. You can get a feel for it driving a motorcycle or light car close up behind a tractor/trailer. Too far back and you feel a lot of buffeting. Get close enough and you'll feel the tug and actually get better gas mileage due to the tow/slip-streaming.

tootsie323 · Post by **tootsie323** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:04 pm

Yeah... but just try explaining to Mr Nice Traffic Policeman that you're protecting the environment when you're pulled over for tailgating a lorry on the motorway..!

cmax · Post by **cmax** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:15 pm

FormulaFun wrote:cmax - Slipstreaming is the result of less downforce and air passing over the car, this hurts the following car through corners as it has less downforce, but along the straights it is beneficial to the following car as less air resistance = more top speed. So basically it hurts them in corners but down straights the car can slipstream

So what you are saying, if I understand it correctly, is that the hot air affects the following car only in corners and on the straight no hot air exists and the car behind can slip stream.

Nephilist · Post by **Nephilist** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:23 pm

When was the last time there were 3 drivers of the same nationality on the podium?
Edit.. someone just asked this in a thread earlier .. how blind am I?
Genuine coincidence though.. it was the one question I wanted answered.

bouncemaker · Post by **bouncemaker** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:38 pm

cmax wrote:So what you are saying, if I understand it correctly, is that the hot air affects the following car only in corners and on the straight no hot air exists and the car behind can slip stream.

You can actually slip-stream a little in corners too, but not by being directly behind. Read my response above and you may understand a bit better. It's not like it goes on, then off. Air is pulled along behind a vehicle and is pushed aside in front of one. It doesn't matter whether the vehicle is going around a corner or is on a straight. How the following driver is able to use it, though, changes based on whether they are going through a curve or are on a straight, on how close the following driver is, and a host of other things.

tootsie323 wrote:Yeah... but just try explaining to Mr Nice Traffic Policeman that you're protecting the environment when you're pulled over for tailgating a lorry on the motorway..!

I have. It didn't work. Ticket cost me about $200. :blush:

huggybear · Post by **huggybear** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:50 pm

cmax wrote:
So what you are saying, if I understand it correctly, is that the hot air affects the following car only in corners and on the straight no hot air exists and the car behind can slip stream.

As something moves through air, it pushes it out of the way and the air returns to it's original state once the the object moves through it. Because of this, if you are following the first object closely enough through the air you can sit in the space before the air has had a chance to reform again. The car in front gets all of the drag from pushing the air out of the way, but the following car doesn't have to do that, so it uses less energy to get to a certain speed, and thus you go faster.
It is beneficial on the straights because you have a drop of downforce (as there is less air for the following car to force under its aero parts), but straights are all about top speed, and it doesn't matter if your steering isn't as wonderful. Once you get into a corner braking zone, you get a few problems. Firstly, your greater top speed/less downforce at the end of a straight after a slipstream means your braking point will be different from the car in front. Secondly, because the driver in front will always be turning slightly earlier, you'll get less downforce because of the same reasons as down the straights, but not in a nice orderly line, and the hole in the air behind the car in front is never directly where your car is, so you catch the edges of the reforming air and it messes up how effective your front wing works.

edit: Here's a nice diagram explaining the airflow http://www.fia.com/resources/images/130 ... raphic.jpg

While you are in the blue zone you are getting the benefits of less drag. Which is easy to sit in on the straights. Once you start going round corners, it becomes much easier to float into the green bits which disrupt the airflow at the front, which as you can see, messes around with the whole airflow over the car, and subsequent grip levels.

carlisimo · Post by **carlisimo** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:11 am

cmax wrote:So what you are saying, if I understand it correctly, is that the hot air affects the following car only in corners and on the straight no hot air exists and the car behind can slip stream.

The effect of temperature is very small. The disrupted airflow is responsible for most of the effect. There is a low pressure, turbulent region behind each car. That means the following car experiences less drag and creates less downforce. This is true both in the straights and the corners.

In the straights though, downforce doesn’t matter much. Drag does matter, so having less of it makes you faster. In the corners the opposite is true.

cmax · Post by **cmax** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:04 am

Thank you all for the detailed explanation. Much appreciated.

ashley313 · Post by **ashley313** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:19 am

I've always had one bonehead F1 question....why do the team principals and other team members who watch the race from the pit wall/cart watch the start of the race in the garage?

Tufty · Post by **Tufty** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:51 am

ashley313 wrote:I've always had one bonehead F1 question....why do the team principals and other team members who watch the race from the pit wall/cart watch the start of the race in the garage?

Not a clue, but I'd guess it's because they needn't bother going on the pit wall if they're boys crash into the first corner. More likely, however, is that there's no telemetry to feed back to the pit crew or the drivers at that early stage of the race, so why not use the shade of the garage, whatever the weather might be doing.

Guia · Post by **Guia** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:24 am

I have a question.

Why can't people observe correct usage in thread titles? For example: capitalising the first letter, or resisting the temptation to employ the redundunt full stop. I don't expect people to be spot-on with their grammar and punctuation throughout all their posts, but thread titles are the face of our message board - and it ain't pretty!

Yours, ever despairingly...

G.

bouncemaker · Post by **bouncemaker** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:28 am

Guia wrote:it ain't pretty!

It aint, aint it?

Guia · Post by **Guia** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:14 am

bouncemaker wrote:
Guia wrote:it ain't pretty!

It aint, aint it?

No, it ain't.

Or were you just goading me... :frown:

bouncemaker · Post by **bouncemaker** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:37 am

Not trying to goad, just having a chuckle at seeing "aint" used in a post about grammar. Thanks for sharing the humor. By the way, is "ain't" allowed in proper (Brittish) English or something? It's slang/not proper in US English: "Aint aint a word, and you aint s'posed to say it. Say aint five times and you aint goin' to heaven" ring a bell?

Water · Post by **Water** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:37 am

English is not my native language, but as far as I've been taught all my life the only time when "ain't" is to be used when it's shortened from "am not", if that. I do think it's a colloquial way of saying things, and may not work too well in written English. My spellchecker doesn't even think it's a word, but one thing that's for sure is that it's not to be used as often as people tend to do. I've chosen the other path and don't use it at all, unless I have to talk about it for some reason.

wire2004 · Post by **wire2004** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:58 am

Tufty wrote:
ashley313 wrote:I've always had one bonehead F1 question....why do the team principals and other team members who watch the race from the pit wall/cart watch the start of the race in the garage?

Not a clue, but I'd guess it's because they needn't bother going on the pit wall if they're boys crash into the first corner. More likely, however, is that there's no telemetry to feed back to the pit crew or the drivers at that early stage of the race, so why not use the shade of the garage, whatever the weather might be doing.

I would guess it is due to start line incidents. It's not just formula 1 that doesn't allow personel on the pit walk during a race start. I was at a local race meeting and happened to get on the put wall. But during the start procedure. The stewards asked the whole pit wall to go to the pit line. The one in the pitlane that seperates the fast lane of the pit lane and the pit boxes.
I hope that can help.

stratos · Post by **stratos** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:16 am

Water wrote:English is not my native language, but as far as I've been taught all my life the only time when "ain't" is to be used when it's shortened from "am not", if that. I do think it's a colloquial way of saying things, and may not work too well in written English. My spellchecker doesn't even think it's a word, but one thing that's for sure is that it's not to be used as often as people tend to do. I've chosen the other path and don't use it at all, unless I have to talk about it for some reason.

ain't and hain't are both vulgar contractions of have not.

shoot999 · Post by **shoot999** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:30 am

bouncemaker wrote:Not trying to goad, just having a chuckle at seeing "aint" used in a post about grammar. Thanks for sharing the humor. By the way, is "ain't" allowed in proper (Brittish) English or something? It's slang/not proper in US English: "Aint aint a word, and you aint s'posed to say it. Say aint five times and you aint goin' to heaven" ring a bell?

Not that I'm an expert but a lot of confusion is caused by people assuming the english language and grammar are the same thing. The worst offenders seem to be the grammar police who inhabit forums. :lol:

For example ' it's' is acceptable english and grammatically correct when used in certain sentences; yet grammatically incorrect (but acceptable english) in others.

One reason english is so popular is that it is a living language and ever changing; influenced by other cultures, street talk, context,etc. So whilst 'ain't' would be out of place in a learned paper, it is acceptable when spoken; or used in a forum for example. And as Stephen Fry so eloquently puts it; we do have the best ****ing swear words!

oh yes; and getting back to the thread; I have always assumed that the empty pit wall was a safety issue.

Fiki · Post by **Fiki** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:37 am

carlisimo wrote:
cmax wrote:So what you are saying, if I understand it correctly, is that the hot air affects the following car only in corners and on the straight no hot air exists and the car behind can slip stream.

The effect of temperature is very small. The disrupted airflow is responsible for most of the effect. There is a low pressure, turbulent region behind each car. That means the following car experiences less drag and creates less downforce. This is true both in the straights and the corners.

In the straights though, downforce doesn’t matter much. Drag does matter, so having less of it makes you faster. In the corners the opposite is true.

I just wanted to add that the hot air coming from the car ahead does, of course, have an influence on the cooling of the car that follows it closely. Engine and brake cooling will suffer, and that may be a problem if a car stays in the slipstream for lap after lap. In pre-DRS days, you would sometimes see a faster car, unable to overcome the defensive driving of the leading, slower car, drop back a bit in order to cool the components. At the same time, the tyres got a chance to recover from the graining suffered in the turbulent air.

So there is a distinction between the temperature of the air you're following in, and the fact that it is turbulent.

Guia · Post by **Guia** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:48 pm

bouncemaker wrote:Not trying to goad, just having a chuckle at seeing "aint" used in a post about grammar. Thanks for sharing the humor. By the way, is "ain't" allowed in proper (Brittish) English or something? It's slang/not proper in US English: "Aint aint a word, and you aint s'posed to say it. Say aint five times and you aint goin' to heaven" ring a bell?

I thought you were calling me on the apostrophe. So to be clear: it ain't aint, it's ain't. :-P

As for its validity, well, it's slang, yes (see the Wikipedia page linked above). But then we employ what terms best convey the intended meaning, whether that means a well-placed expletive or more subtle elucidation. In this particular case, I was trying to be ironic and so as to defuse any notion that I was being a prude.

Well, it looks like I failed on that score!

ashley313 · Post by **ashley313** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:08 pm

shoot999 wrote:oh yes; and getting back to the thread; I have always assumed that the empty pit wall was a safety issue.

That's a pretty good answer. Is it empty though? I feel like we see the engineer for each driver still on the wall but I could be wrong.

IamTheWillrus · Post by **IamTheWillrus** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:35 pm

What major changes will be on the cars for 2014 (or whenever the next big regulation change will be), in terms of both appearance and performance changes?

bouncemaker · Post by **bouncemaker** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:01 am

Guia wrote:to be clear: it ain't aint, it's ain't.

I understood I left the apostrophe out. With the word being slang, I didn't think it mattered. Anyway, "is not" or "isn't" should be used instead of Aint/Ain't.

Guia wrote:In this particular case, I was trying to be ironic and so as to defuse any notion that I was being a prude. Well, it looks like I failed on that score!

I think I did too. I am obviously a card carrying member of the grammar police! To be truthful, I am an engineering instructor right now, and did just get done grading 60 technical memo's, so may be too sensitive to grammar issues/want to help correct issues too much. Just maybe... :blush:

In any case, I got a chuckle out of someone using ain't in a correction of someone else's grammar. Once again, thank you for the humor. Sorry it seemed like a goad.

So, to get back on track, here's a question I am thinking about as I am planning to attend my first GP this year:

What gives the best overall experience for the money, grandstands or hillside seating/general admission? I imagine it depends on the track so here are the ones I was considering: Canada, Great Britain, Belgium, Italy, US (Austin). Also, out of those, which one would members recommend?

bouncemaker · Post by **bouncemaker** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:07 am

IamTheWillrus wrote:What major changes will be on the cars for 2014 (or whenever the next big regulation change will be), in terms of both appearance and performance changes?

The next major change is in moving to turbo charged V6 engines over the current V8's. KERS is also going to be highly integrated as this is the first engine where it was considered from onset. I haven't looked it up per se, just responding from what I remember. The changes may be 2013 instead of 2014 as far as I know, lol.

theledge · Post by **theledge** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:17 am

My question....
Back in 2005 and the days of one lap qualifying, the FIA put on their website 2 suggestions for a new qualifying format and for fans to vote on which they prefer.
One was the qualifying format we see today (although it's been tweaked a little).
What was the other format they proposed?

I was thinking about it the other day but can't remember what it was. I also voted for it!

huggybear · Post by **huggybear** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:31 am

bouncemaker wrote:
IamTheWillrus wrote:What major changes will be on the cars for 2014 (or whenever the next big regulation change will be), in terms of both appearance and performance changes?

The next major change is in moving to turbo charged V6 engines over the current V8's. KERS is also going to be highly integrated as this is the first engine where it was considered from onset. I haven't looked it up per se, just responding from what I remember. The changes may be 2013 instead of 2014 as far as I know, lol.

There is also a much lower max height of the front wing I think.

flyer · Post by **flyer** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:37 am

What does the red button do?

bouncemaker · Post by **bouncemaker** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:45 am

flyer wrote:What does the red button do?

What button? Which car? Is this on a steering wheel? Are there any other labels?

Edit: Lol, that was a nonsense question to see who would actually try to answer it, wasn't it? Got me there. :blush:

bouncemaker · Post by **bouncemaker** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:47 am

huggybear wrote:There is also a much lower max height of the front wing I think.

Interesting. I wonder what purpose that would have.

Angel De La Muerte · Post by **Angel De La Muerte** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:02 am

Should f1 become like the football league? Lower teams getting relegated to GP2 and the top GP2 teams having the option to become an f1 team?

Would this solve the problems of the likes of HRT?

Just think it could give the constructors title a new purpose, we all talk of a 'feeder series' so why not define it better?

nexus · Post by **nexus** » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:10 am

Angel De La Muerte wrote:Should f1 become like the football league? Lower teams getting relegated to GP2 and the top GP2 teams having the option to become an f1 team?

Would this solve the problems of the likes of HRT?

Just think it could give the constructors title a new purpose, we all talk of a 'feeder series' so why not define it better?

Trouble is the difference in cars for each of the formula. In football if you get relegated you can play with the same players - in F1 if you got relegated you would have to design and build a new car, probably with a new engine supplier, etc and you would waste what has been put into the F1 car. Same for promoted teams - I doubt they would have any more success than HRT in designing and building a car from scratch with different technologies etc (plus it takes more than the time from the end of one season to the start of the next to do this)