Did China answer the Vettel question?

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ynot22
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Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by ynot22 »

There were two stories I was watching last night. 1) Could Kobash get a podium: we all saw how that turned out unfortunately. And 2) can Vettel pass, or as his critics suggest, only lead races. Personally, since I started this thread, Ill have to say that I leaned towards the latter but had not made up my mind.
I genuinely did not have a final opinion on this and even tho he obviously finished far ahead of where he started the race I don't remember seeing a lot of passing. Please Please lets not make this a Vettel bashing thread. I really just didn't see it on Speed TV here in the states but it was 3AM and it could have just been my semi-conscious state of mind.
Wait I do remember an interview where he said he had a good pass on Kimi. Perhaps some youtube links would help settle this for me. Looking now.

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Johnston
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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by Johnston »

The only on track overtakes I remember was on Kimi. The rest through strategy and clean air I think.
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

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PzR Slim
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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by PzR Slim »

I didn't see anything from Vettel that makes me believe he's the best there's ever been as some have suggested. I didn't even see anything to suggest he's above average but it was a strange old race so I'm not sure it tells us a great deal. One thing is for certain he's better from the front with a good car than he is in the mix with a bad one. I think there are drivers in the field who are equally good at both.
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Rocket_Red
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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by Rocket_Red »

Vettel had the strategy, 3 stop was faster but 2 stop gave track position.

Other than that some decent defending until his tyres went off
Close doesn't count

AycheAyeEmm
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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by AycheAyeEmm »

Saw the Kimi overtake and was looking forward to an overtake on Perez after Vettel came out behind him until Perez ran wide. A mediocre drive from Vettel in my opinion.

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ynot22
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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by ynot22 »

^^ Thats kinda what I thought. Too bad, I thought yesterdays race would help settle that for us.

mnmracer
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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by mnmracer »

If anything, today's race answered that the 'racing through the field' everyone seems to expect, is not as straightforward as they claim. Vettel was suffering from an enormous top speed gap, as was visible to everyone in the beginning behind di Resta. He was faster in the corners, but di Resta was accelerating away from him like he was driving a HRT. However, not even the much faster McLarens could easily get by the likes of the Williams and Force India's (earlier, under equal tire circumstances).

The fairy tale that Alonso (who did he overtake today?) and Hamilton and who not are always racing through the field like a hot knife through butter, is just that: a fairy tale.
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AycheAyeEmm
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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by AycheAyeEmm »

mnmracer wrote:If anything, today's race answered that the 'racing through the field' everyone seems to expect, is not as straightforward as they claim. Vettel was suffering from an enormous top speed gap, as was visible to everyone in the beginning behind di Resta. He was faster in the corners, but di Resta was accelerating away from him like he was driving a HRT. However, not even the much faster McLarens could easily get by the likes of the Williams and Force India's (earlier, under equal tire circumstances).

The fairy tale that Alonso (who did he overtake today?) and Hamilton and who not are always racing through the field like a hot knife through butter, is just that: a fairy tale.


What was Webber's China race last year? A happy dream?

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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by Blinky McSquinty »

Because Vettel screwed up qualifying he started eleventh. He finished fifth after a very difficult race. You can't describe it as a stellar day, but neither was it a poor day.

Saturday night he had every reason to look in the mirror and call himself a certain vegetable, but after the race he could look at his reflection in the mirror and tell himself he did pretty darn good. No racer is entirely satisfied unless they win but he finished better than he started.

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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by fourearedfox »

no

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Johnston
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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by Johnston »

I know this will get flamed but I think some of the cars that managed to get a good Quali flattered him.

Cars like Koby and Sergio even arguably Alonso were out of position.

Then the Lotus cars especially Kimi screwed their strategy .
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

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lunatic
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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by lunatic »

Vettel had a good race in my opinion, the team gave him a good strategy and helped him out of the quali hole he dug, shame that on the slow down lap he just bitched instead of thanking the team for getting him into some good points. What has been proved is that his 2 championships have been down to having a dominant car and not the fact that he is the 2nd coming as his fans would try and have you believe.
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cmax
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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by cmax »

Vettel was the best two stopper today, apart from the race winner.
As far as I can remember he did one overtake which was in all honesty
beautiful considering other drivers who tried the same move today in the same place
ended up running the marbles and going wide (Alonso and Grosjean).

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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by mnmracer »

AycheAyeEmm wrote:
mnmracer wrote:If anything, today's race answered that the 'racing through the field' everyone seems to expect, is not as straightforward as they claim. Vettel was suffering from an enormous top speed gap, as was visible to everyone in the beginning behind di Resta. He was faster in the corners, but di Resta was accelerating away from him like he was driving a HRT. However, not even the much faster McLarens could easily get by the likes of the Williams and Force India's (earlier, under equal tire circumstances).

The fairy tale that Alonso (who did he overtake today?) and Hamilton and who not are always racing through the field like a hot knife through butter, is just that: a fairy tale.


What was Webber's China race last year? A happy dream?


A much faster car.
If you want an example of charging through the field, why don't you look at China '07 or Japan '07 or if you want to consider charges in faster cars, Britain '10. Oh wait, no, races where Vettel shows his skills of course need to be ignored, otherwise you can't hate on him.
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callMEcrazy
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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by callMEcrazy »

mnmracer wrote:If anything, today's race answered that the 'racing through the field' everyone seems to expect, is not as straightforward as they claim. Vettel was suffering from an enormous top speed gap, as was visible to everyone in the beginning behind di Resta. He was faster in the corners, but di Resta was accelerating away from him like he was driving a HRT. However, not even the much faster McLarens could easily get by the likes of the Williams and Force India's (earlier, under equal tire circumstances).

The fairy tale that Alonso (who did he overtake today?) and Hamilton and who not are always racing through the field like a hot knife through butter, is just that: a fairy tale.


Alonso overtook Webber today who had a faster car.

Personally I don't buy that Vettel is poor in traffic. But one race or even 3 doesn't prove anything one way or the other. If Red bull continue to be slow in quali and fast in the race then we'll have a fair idea by the end of the season though.
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Johnston
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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by Johnston »

mnmracer wrote:
AycheAyeEmm wrote:
mnmracer wrote:If anything, today's race answered that the 'racing through the field' everyone seems to expect, is not as straightforward as they claim. Vettel was suffering from an enormous top speed gap, as was visible to everyone in the beginning behind di Resta. He was faster in the corners, but di Resta was accelerating away from him like he was driving a HRT. However, not even the much faster McLarens could easily get by the likes of the Williams and Force India's (earlier, under equal tire circumstances).

The fairy tale that Alonso (who did he overtake today?) and Hamilton and who not are always racing through the field like a hot knife through butter, is just that: a fairy tale.


What was Webber's China race last year? A happy dream?


A much faster car.
If you want an example of charging through the field, why don't you look at China '07 or Japan '07 or if you want to consider charges in faster cars, Britain '10. Oh wait, no, races where Vettel shows his skills of course need to be ignored, otherwise you can't hate on him.



Charges in Britain? He basically gave up until they got on the radio and give him a gee on, then he barged a Force India out of his way. Also was nearly lapped until the safety car came into play. It was also his own fault he was their in the first place.

It wasn't as impressive as made out
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by Megamoss »

Personally I thought he had a pretty strong race, despite losing positions in the last few laps.
He may not have set the track on fire, but he did:-

Drive cleanly
Drive consistently
Drive sensibly
Use strategy wisely

Let's not forget that the field was extremely close and he avoided Raikkonnen's fate too. Also, no one really carved through the field today. Until the latter stages of the race it was very a strategy driven affair.

mnmracer
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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by mnmracer »

Johnston wrote:
mnmracer wrote:
AycheAyeEmm wrote:
mnmracer wrote:If anything, today's race answered that the 'racing through the field' everyone seems to expect, is not as straightforward as they claim. Vettel was suffering from an enormous top speed gap, as was visible to everyone in the beginning behind di Resta. He was faster in the corners, but di Resta was accelerating away from him like he was driving a HRT. However, not even the much faster McLarens could easily get by the likes of the Williams and Force India's (earlier, under equal tire circumstances).

The fairy tale that Alonso (who did he overtake today?) and Hamilton and who not are always racing through the field like a hot knife through butter, is just that: a fairy tale.


What was Webber's China race last year? A happy dream?


A much faster car.
If you want an example of charging through the field, why don't you look at China '07 or Japan '07 or if you want to consider charges in faster cars, Britain '10. Oh wait, no, races where Vettel shows his skills of course need to be ignored, otherwise you can't hate on him.



Charges in Britain? He basically gave up until they got on the radio and give him a gee on, then he barged a Force India out of his way. Also was nearly lapped until the safety car came into play. It was also his own fault he was their in the first place.

It wasn't as impressive as made out


Can you do anything else other then selective quoting? Seriously, in every topic you just start ignoring anything that doesn't fit your pathetic little idea of the world (TR07), not to mention the double standard you fanboys always apply to everything. Vettel can't be given credit for recovering because he caused it himself, but the fact Webber qualified 18th himself, nah, let's just ignore that and apply double standard. Pathetic how the only way you can seem to support a driver is by handicapping another in your judgement.
Last edited by mnmracer on Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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pyratheon141
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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by pyratheon141 »

Johnston wrote:
mnmracer wrote:
AycheAyeEmm wrote:
mnmracer wrote:If anything, today's race answered that the 'racing through the field' everyone seems to expect, is not as straightforward as they claim. Vettel was suffering from an enormous top speed gap, as was visible to everyone in the beginning behind di Resta. He was faster in the corners, but di Resta was accelerating away from him like he was driving a HRT. However, not even the much faster McLarens could easily get by the likes of the Williams and Force India's (earlier, under equal tire circumstances).

The fairy tale that Alonso (who did he overtake today?) and Hamilton and who not are always racing through the field like a hot knife through butter, is just that: a fairy tale.


What was Webber's China race last year? A happy dream?


A much faster car.
If you want an example of charging through the field, why don't you look at China '07 or Japan '07 or if you want to consider charges in faster cars, Britain '10. Oh wait, no, races where Vettel shows his skills of course need to be ignored, otherwise you can't hate on him.



Charges in Britain? He basically gave up until they got on the radio and give him a gee on, then he barged a Force India out of his way. Also was nearly lapped until the safety car came into play. It was also his own fault he was their in the first place.

It wasn't as impressive as made out


Charges in Japan? He didn't overtake anyone, 2 ferraris told by FIA to pit, 2 hitting each other and alonso dumping it... barely a charge

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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by Johnston »

Megamoss wrote: Also, no one really carved through the field today. .



I seem to remember both Button and Webber having to do a few overtakes.
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by FormulaFun »

mnmracer wrote:
AycheAyeEmm wrote:
mnmracer wrote:If anything, today's race answered that the 'racing through the field' everyone seems to expect, is not as straightforward as they claim. Vettel was suffering from an enormous top speed gap, as was visible to everyone in the beginning behind di Resta. He was faster in the corners, but di Resta was accelerating away from him like he was driving a HRT. However, not even the much faster McLarens could easily get by the likes of the Williams and Force India's (earlier, under equal tire circumstances).

The fairy tale that Alonso (who did he overtake today?) and Hamilton and who not are always racing through the field like a hot knife through butter, is just that: a fairy tale.


What was Webber's China race last year? A happy dream?


A much faster car.
If you want an example of charging through the field, why don't you look at China '07 or Japan '07 or if you want to consider charges in faster cars, Britain '10. Oh wait, no, races where Vettel shows his skills of course need to be ignored, otherwise you can't hate on him.


What are you talking about... his silverstone comeback in 2010 was poor, he had a way faster car, overtook members of the midfield, and punched his way past a force india at the end...

You call Alonso's race through the packs and Hamilton's race through the packs fairy tales, but look at today Hamilton started 7th and overtook many, so did Button, last year Webber climbed the field from 18th - 3rd, yet this year Vettel's team sorted him out with an awesome strategy that put him in 3rd which he couldnt hold on to and after all he could do on the radio apparently was complain. His climb from 11th - 5th was only down to his team and he couldnt even thank them for it

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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by pyratheon141 »

Johnston wrote:
Megamoss wrote: Also, no one really carved through the field today. .



I seem to remember both Button and Webber having to do a few overtakes.


Hamilton and Webber were behind the Williams after the 3rd stop so there's a good 6 places in the closing stage along

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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by FormulaFun »

Hamilton ontrack overtakes today - Kobayashi, Webber x2, Perez, Di Resta, Maldonado, Senna, Massa, Vettel, Kimi

Vettel ontrack overtakes today - Kimi

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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by mnmracer »

FormulaFun wrote:Hamilton ontrack overtakes today - Kobayashi, Webber x2, Perez, Di Resta, Maldonado, Senna, Massa, Vettel, Kimi

Vettel ontrack overtakes today - Kimi


Thank you for listing the televised overtakes. I'm take it you're now going to list the actual overtakes?
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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by ashley313 »

He did pass a bunch of cars over two laps from I want to say 17th up to 13th or so earlyish in the race, off camera, and not because all of the cars ahead pitted. If you watched timing, you saw it. I believe there was a pass or two before that as well. The pass on Kimi was as good or better than any other overtake in the race, and he did a pretty good job defending when it was still possible. If he had pitted just two laps later the podium might have looked different.
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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by FormulaFun »

well the toro rosso's wouldn't have been putting up much of a fight against him would they... and not just because the car is poor, the overtake on kimi wasn't special at all purely because of the situation kimi was in with his tyres, they were so poor that he dropped from 2nd to like 14th or something in just a couple of laps

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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by mnmracer »

FormulaFun wrote:well the toro rosso's wouldn't have been putting up much of a fight against him would they... and not just because the car is poor, the overtake on kimi wasn't special at all purely because of the situation kimi was in with his tyres, they were so poor that he dropped from 2nd to like 14th or something in just a couple of laps

Again you fail to answer the question. If you don't know what you're talking about, just don't bother spewing fairy tales.

Not to mention that poor tires didn't hold anybody back from hailing Hamilton as god after overtaking Vettel last year.
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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by ashley313 »

FormulaFun wrote:well the toro rosso's wouldn't have been putting up much of a fight against him would they... and not just because the car is poor, the overtake on kimi wasn't special at all purely because of the situation kimi was in with his tyres, they were so poor that he dropped from 2nd to like 14th or something in just a couple of laps

Its not like Seb's tires were much newer, and Kimi had clean air in front of him while Seb sized up that pass from .05-.03 secs behind him for manyyyy laps. Seb's tires should have been suffering more under those circumstances.
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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by FormulaFun »

mnmracer wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:well the toro rosso's wouldn't have been putting up much of a fight against him would they... and not just because the car is poor, the overtake on kimi wasn't special at all purely because of the situation kimi was in with his tyres, they were so poor that he dropped from 2nd to like 14th or something in just a couple of laps

Again you fail to answer the question. If you don't know what you're talking about, just shut up ok?

Not to mention that poor tires didn't hold anybody back from hailing Hamilton as god after overtaking Vettel last year.


what question? clearly it is you who doesn't know what he's talking about if you didn't see those many passes that were made by Hamilton, Button, Webber and even Alonso had some good moves. Yet Vettel had nothing except a couple of overtakes on back markers and one okay move on Kimi

And i don't think Hamilton's move on Vettel in 2011 was all that


ashley313 wrote:Its not like Seb's tires were much newer, and Kimi had clean air in front of him while Seb sized up that pass from .05-.03 secs behind him for manyyyy laps. Seb's tires should have been suffering more under those circumstances.


Kimi was probably having to push very hard to keep Seb behind due to inferior machinery, his tyres went off the cliff and he dropped down the order faster than a HRT on Pole, nothing about his overtake was special, it was average given the state of kimi's tyres. Additionally, in the later laps when his tyres reached the age of Kimi's he too was overtaken by both the people that were behind him in 1 lap, and one on outside of a hairpin showing how easy it was to take some one whose tyres were gone
Last edited by FormulaFun on Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mnmracer
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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by mnmracer »

FormulaFun wrote:
mnmracer wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:well the toro rosso's wouldn't have been putting up much of a fight against him would they... and not just because the car is poor, the overtake on kimi wasn't special at all purely because of the situation kimi was in with his tyres, they were so poor that he dropped from 2nd to like 14th or something in just a couple of laps

Again you fail to answer the question. If you don't know what you're talking about, just shut up ok?

Not to mention that poor tires didn't hold anybody back from hailing Hamilton as god after overtaking Vettel last year.


what question? clearly it is you who doesn't know what he's talking about if you didn't see those many passes that were made by Hamilton, Button, Webber and even Alonso had some good moves. Yet Vettel had nothing except a couple of overtakes on back markers and one okay move on Kimi

And i don't think Hamilton's move on Vettel in 2011 was all that


I don't say Hamilton didn't overtake those drivers. I say Vettel overtook more people then just Kimi and 'those backmarkers'. But you obviously have no idea what you're talking about, so there's little point in arguing with you.
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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by FormulaFun »

mnmracer wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
mnmracer wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:well the toro rosso's wouldn't have been putting up much of a fight against him would they... and not just because the car is poor, the overtake on kimi wasn't special at all purely because of the situation kimi was in with his tyres, they were so poor that he dropped from 2nd to like 14th or something in just a couple of laps

Again you fail to answer the question. If you don't know what you're talking about, just shut up ok?

Not to mention that poor tires didn't hold anybody back from hailing Hamilton as god after overtaking Vettel last year.


what question? clearly it is you who doesn't know what he's talking about if you didn't see those many passes that were made by Hamilton, Button, Webber and even Alonso had some good moves. Yet Vettel had nothing except a couple of overtakes on back markers and one okay move on Kimi

And i don't think Hamilton's move on Vettel in 2011 was all that


I don't say Hamilton didn't overtake those drivers. I say Vettel overtook more people then just Kimi and 'those backmarkers'. But you obviously have no idea what you're talking about, so there's little point in arguing with you.


Well then, correct me, who of note did he overtake?

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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by ashley313 »

Also, Seb and Mark were doing roughly equal laps when Mark's tires were much newer throughout. Mark's times had pretty well fallen off before he came in each time (which felt like every five minutes), whereas Seb stayed consistent.

FWIW the only real backmarkers in that race were HRT, Marussia and Caterham. None of the drivers had an easy time getting past anything Williams, Sauber, FI, STR.
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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by mnmracer »

ashley313 wrote:Also, Seb and Mark were doing roughly equal laps when Mark's tires were much newer throughout. Mark's times had pretty well fallen off before he came in each time (which felt like every five minutes), whereas Seb stayed consistent.

FWIW the only real backmarkers in that race were HRT, Marussia and Caterham. None of the drivers had an easy time getting past anything Williams, Sauber, FI, STR.
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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by FormulaFun »

mnmracer wrote:
ashley313 wrote:Also, Seb and Mark were doing roughly equal laps when Mark's tires were much newer throughout. Mark's times had pretty well fallen off before he came in each time (which felt like every five minutes), whereas Seb stayed consistent.

FWIW the only real backmarkers in that race were HRT, Marussia and Caterham. None of the drivers had an easy time getting past anything Williams, Sauber, FI, STR.


Again you fail to answer the question. If you don't know what you're talking about, just don't bother spewing fairy tales.

Everyone had an easy time getting past the STR's didn't even see them during the race really, and when were they doing equal times? When they were all stuck in that train behind kimi or when they were in clear air? True Webber pitted early and often, and props to Vettel for keeping his tyres in relatively good condition but the big question mark over his driving isn't whether or not he can look after his tyres it's about whether he can overtake cars, i feel today it showed he couldn't overtake, had he been able to overtake kimi sooner than he did then a 3rd place would have certainly been on the cards for him

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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by lunatic »

FormulaFun wrote:Hamilton ontrack overtakes today - Kobayashi, Webber x2, Perez, Di Resta, Maldonado, Senna, Massa, Vettel, Kimi

Vettel ontrack overtakes today - Kimi
I could have sworn i saw Hamilton overtake Vettel on track.
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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by PzR Slim »

lunatic wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:Hamilton ontrack overtakes today - Kobayashi, Webber x2, Perez, Di Resta, Maldonado, Senna, Massa, Vettel, Kimi

Vettel ontrack overtakes today - Kimi
I could have sworn i saw Hamilton overtake Vettel on track.

That's why he put him in the list;)
If...

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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by ashley313 »

FormulaFun wrote:
Kimi was probably having to push very hard to keep Seb behind due to inferior machinery, his tyres went off the cliff and he dropped down the order faster than a HRT on Pole, nothing about his overtake was special, it was average given the state of kimi's tyres. Additionally, in the later laps when his tyres reached the age of Kimi's he too was overtaken by both the people that were behind him in 1 lap, and one on outside of a hairpin showing how easy it was to take some one whose tyres were gone

Seb's tires were what, 8 laps older when he finally had to let people by than Kimi's were when his time came. And I hardly think Kimi was sitting in inferior machinery. The Lotus is no joke.
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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by FormulaFun »

ashley313 wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Kimi was probably having to push very hard to keep Seb behind due to inferior machinery, his tyres went off the cliff and he dropped down the order faster than a HRT on Pole, nothing about his overtake was special, it was average given the state of kimi's tyres. Additionally, in the later laps when his tyres reached the age of Kimi's he too was overtaken by both the people that were behind him in 1 lap, and one on outside of a hairpin showing how easy it was to take some one whose tyres were gone

Seb's tires were what, 8 laps older when he finally had to let people by than Kimi's were when his time came. And I hardly think Kimi was sitting in inferior machinery. The Lotus is no joke.


no doubt the lotus is a good car, but it has certainly not got the race pace of the RB, otherwise the Lotus boys would have more points than what they do currently. As i said props to Vettel for keeping his tyres in good shape but that is not what were talking about here, we're talking about his inability to overtake.

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lunatic
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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by lunatic »

PzR Slim wrote:
lunatic wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:Hamilton ontrack overtakes today - Kobayashi, Webber x2, Perez, Di Resta, Maldonado, Senna, Massa, Vettel, Kimi

Vettel ontrack overtakes today - Kimi
I could have sworn i saw Hamilton overtake Vettel on track.

That's why he put him in the list;)
Oops i read it wrong.
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mnmracer
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Re: Did China answer the Vettel question?

Post by mnmracer »

FormulaFun wrote:
mnmracer wrote:
ashley313 wrote:Also, Seb and Mark were doing roughly equal laps when Mark's tires were much newer throughout. Mark's times had pretty well fallen off before he came in each time (which felt like every five minutes), whereas Seb stayed consistent.

FWIW the only real backmarkers in that race were HRT, Marussia and Caterham. None of the drivers had an easy time getting past anything Williams, Sauber, FI, STR.


Again you fail to answer the question. If you don't know what you're talking about, just don't bother spewing fairy tales.

Everyone had an easy time getting past the STR's didn't even see them during the race really, and when were they doing equal times? When they were all stuck in that train behind kimi or when they were in clear air? True Webber pitted early and often, and props to Vettel for keeping his tyres in relatively good condition but the big question mark over his driving isn't whether or not he can look after his tyres it's about whether he can overtake cars, i feel today it showed he couldn't overtake, had he been able to overtake kimi sooner than he did then a 3rd place would have certainly been on the cards for him


Very original, albeit a bit delusional. The fact you only focus on STR (I quoted him) and ignore the rest, just shows how pathetic your arguing is. Only select whatever fits your story and ignore the rest.

I'll refer you to the lap guide once it's available, but if all you can focus on is televised overtakes and just assume Vettel magically moved up the field, you should really ask yourselves who you're fooling. Anyone that has followed on livetiming, or even just paid attention to the position bar on the screen, has seen overtakes when necessary on drivers that Hamilton and Button took at least as much time to overtake.

Your last statement just shows how little you know about Formula One. Anyone having seen more than 1 seasons of F1 understands that if Vettel would have attacked Kimi (also with a much higher top speed), he would have ended up back where Kimi finished.
Arguing semantics: the lowest form of internet discussions.

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