What makes BTCC so great?

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phfft...
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What makes BTCC so great?

Post by phfft... »

Just watched the three races from the first BTCC meeting at Brands and was blown away by how entertaining it was. I've seen some individual races of WTCC, and DTM but never really followed touring car racing that closely, thinking it was rather boring with usually one factory team dominating. But the BTCC had several teams racing very closely and aggressively with plenty of passing and bold manouvers. The cars looked quite nice, too, the atmosphere at the paddock is obviously very warm and the calendar has a decent amount of races.

Any BTCC fans around? What's the secret recipe here? Why am I hooked after a single weekend whereas other series have left me cold?

PzR Slim
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by PzR Slim »

It's a great six hours in front of the TV on a Sunday for us in the UK. ITV4 show all the support races as well in a long programme full of action. Lots of cars, which are pretty well matched, no one with ridiculous amounts of money to throw at the car, some genuine personalities for drivers, great tracks, what's not to like.
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minchy
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by minchy »

For me, it's variety and close racing.

There's a massive range of events at a BTCC event. From slower series like the Cleo Cup, up to the main touring car races with junior formula single seater series thrown in to boot.

Plus, I can drive 3 hours and get a weekend general access ticket to the British GP with camping for the best part of £250, or I could drive half an hour, get a quali ticket and a VIP raceday ticket with camping at Croft for under £100. You do the maths and work out which would be better!
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Rocket_Red
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by Rocket_Red »

It's so closely competed. With the ballast added to the cars and the reverse grid guarantees excitement. There is rarely the same winner at an event onlyh done twice iirc Plato in 2009 at Brands GP on the last meet of the season and Rouse several years ago.

I don't think it's as good as F1 for innovation or driver skill but at 10 quid for a race day ticket at Knockhill it is great value for money. You get much more access to drivers and teams tents at Knockhill too even met Steve Rider and Lou Goodman presenting + all the drivers.

The good thing with it is the best drivers still do great with Plato, Neal, Shedden ending up at the top at the end of the year.
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Panzer391
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by Panzer391 »

I'm glad the powers that be in touring cars know the fans like it for the close racing literally and dont come down to heavy on the contact. Touring cars is exciting F1 can occasionally be exciting.

JohnnyGuitar
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by JohnnyGuitar »

I like BTCC. The on track action is great - but not to forget the support races are often just as good if not better - but everytime I see them doing the reverse-grid draw on TV with the giant goldfish bowl and ping pong balls, I cringe.

It's gimmicky in the extreme, and unnecessary in my opinion.

As an aside, is anyone else going to the Donington Historic Festival at the beginning of May?

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orbthef1fan
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by orbthef1fan »

I've been to Croft three times to see the BTCC and it's just awsome to have non-stop racing all day! :thumbup:
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Gothnak
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by Gothnak »

I was at Brands last weekend, we didn't plan for it to be so sunny and i got rather sunburnt in the Paddock grand stand. Was great that you could wander around the Paddock over lunchtime although you didn't see the BTCC cars, you could get up close with all the cars in the support races.

The racing was very close too, Pity Dave Newsham had such a bad first race, i think he had a chance to win otherwise.

5RedLights
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by 5RedLights »

BTCC is simply a fun day out and great for TV with guaranteed action. However it seems that outside the UK most people don't get it, perhaps a bit like NASCAR which only has a big following in the US.
I think BTCC was massive in the 90's when nearly every manufacturer in the world competed, however it did go through a slump when most pulled out and the series really was dominated by Vauxhall. But in recent years the series has really taken off again with more cars, better attendances and the great coverage of the day that ITV4 provides.
I hope that BTCC remains strong for years to come and is a series, which in my opinion, is the best Touring car series in the world. Closely followed by V8 supercars :-P

matzy
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by matzy »

I think its a mixture of the close racing and the personalities. The success-ballast generally keeps it competitive, and the reserve-grid for the last round ensures a chaotic climax to the race-day. I wouldn't want to see such things in F1, but they work perfectly in BTCC.

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Rocket_Red
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by Rocket_Red »

^

F1 is about the pinnacle of motorsport. It doesn't need things like that.

BTCC is more funner and everyone has a chance.

F1 is also about development so disadvantaging the best team is unfair BTCC is about closer, dirtier racing and no matter how disadvantaged a top driver is they can still come out on top.
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crankcase
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by crankcase »

BTCC gives a lot of action a lot of the time, F1 gives a bit of action some of the time.

Obvoiusly F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport, but the BTCC is a more entertaining day of action. A lot of bumping and nudging and generally the drivers take it as long as they get a chance to give as good as they get and aren't punted off in to the tyres. It is really close racing on the limit of what the cars can handle, something that you can't always notice in F1, but when the cars are twitching and obviously about to lose grip it gives that extra edge.

If the series clash I always watch F1 but record the BTCC. They are very different things to watch, for F1 you need a bit of passion but BTCC seems to entertain just about anyone who happens to come across it.

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Rocket_Red
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by Rocket_Red »

I think they clash twice this year.

This weekend but F1 is on early and Valencia. I will probably watch F1 as tedious as it is in Valencia, it's just better, but I can't explain why.
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Asphalt_World
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by Asphalt_World »

I find modern day BTCC pretty dull to be honest. It's become little more than expensive banger racing. There is so much poor driving tactics that real race craft does not stand a chance any more.

Plus the cars these days simply do not have the looks.

Being old enough to remember watching the Beemers take on the mightys Siera RS Cosworths I can tell you it's no where near as it was back then.
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WTkFox
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by WTkFox »

Crashes maybe?

Wait til Australia gets Nissan into the V8 mix and one more, then the competition is on!
Or maybe a merger of the Aussie V8s and BTCC... Vaxhall and Holden are owned by the same parent company anyways...

WebberFanBoy
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by WebberFanBoy »

5RedLights wrote:BTCC is simply a fun day out and great for TV with guaranteed action. However it seems that outside the UK most people don't get it, perhaps a bit like NASCAR which only has a big following in the US.
I think BTCC was massive in the 90's when nearly every manufacturer in the world competed, however it did go through a slump when most pulled out and the series really was dominated by Vauxhall. But in recent years the series has really taken off again with more cars, better attendances and the great coverage of the day that ITV4 provides.
I hope that BTCC remains strong for years to come and is a series, which in my opinion, is the best Touring car series in the world. Closely followed by V8 supercars :-P



if its as good as the V8's, maybe i should suss it out. any way to watch it in australia?

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huggybear
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by huggybear »

Asphalt_World wrote:I find modern day BTCC pretty dull to be honest. It's become little more than expensive banger racing. There is so much poor driving tactics that real race craft does not stand a chance any more.


Plato is applauded for using other cars as a brake, it's a joke. Take his punting off Newsham at Brands this year as an example. In most other race series, that is a penalty of some kind. There is no legitimate attempt to pass, just plowing straight into the side

Asphalt_World
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by Asphalt_World »

huggybear wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:I find modern day BTCC pretty dull to be honest. It's become little more than expensive banger racing. There is so much poor driving tactics that real race craft does not stand a chance any more.


Plato is applauded for using other cars as a brake, it's a joke. Take his punting off Newsham at Brands this year as an example. In most other race series, that is a penalty of some kind. There is no legitimate attempt to pass, just plowing straight into the side


I agree, they perhaps have a couple of goes at a legit pass and then when they fail they simply shove the other car wide or in to a spin. It's not very classy imo.
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Rocket_Red
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by Rocket_Red »

Plato takes it too (Knockhill 2011) and his pass was a more legitimate attempt at Brands. You cannot then say he is the dirtiest driver as they are all at it, I don't think he deliberately hit Newsham either he wrnt up the inside and ran out of road, it was his fault though. If Newsham had been better he may have held it like Plato in 09.

It is more of a contact sport and this is widely accepted
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domdonald
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by domdonald »

I like watching the ginetta juniors.. highly entertaining! Not sure i'd want my kids to be doing hat tho :-)

WTkFox
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by WTkFox »

It'll be far more interesting to have a British Rally Cross Championship so that cars are free to crash into each other and make racing very interesting and maybe drag it out to +20 laps... dependingly

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huggybear
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by huggybear »

Rocket_Red wrote:Plato takes it too (Knockhill 2011) and his pass was a more legitimate attempt at Brands. You cannot then say he is the dirtiest driver as they are all at it, I don't think he deliberately hit Newsham either he wrnt up the inside and ran out of road, it was his fault though. If Newsham had been better he may have held it like Plato in 09.

It is more of a contact sport and this is widely accepted


He deliberately hit Newsham. Three wide into Paddock is not a move you try if you aren't expecting to use the outside car as a brake. It's difficult enough to dive down the inside two wide, and most of the moves into there end up being set ups for Druids because it's so difficult to make it stick.
Plato's move needed one of two things to happen. 1) Newsham jumps out of the way so Plato's ridiculous lunge doesn't punt him off or 2) Plato uses Newsham as a brake.
Given that Newsham is in the process of overtaking the Honda, he isn't going to just jump out of the way so Plato doesn't smash him off the road.

And yes, Plato is not the only one to do it, but having started his BTCC career 15 years ago, you'd think he would have the experience and sense to not still drive like he is wet behind the ears.

adam_92
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by adam_92 »

Rocket_Red wrote:Plato takes it too (Knockhill 2011) and his pass was a more legitimate attempt at Brands. You cannot then say he is the dirtiest driver as they are all at it, I don't think he deliberately hit Newsham either he wrnt up the inside and ran out of road, it was his fault though. If Newsham had been better he may have held it like Plato in 09.

It is more of a contact sport and this is widely accepted


I agree, imo Jason went for a gap and that closed faster than he thought it would and he could do nothing other than hit Newsham. A daft mistake but not deliberate.

vikz22
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by vikz22 »

One of the few series that can boast they had a volvo estate racing!!!!

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Lt. Drebin
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by Lt. Drebin »

Apart from the aforementioned reasons, I would add that BTCC is racing on the classic racetracks, and not those awful Tilkedroms:

Code: Select all

   Date
1    Brands Hatch    01/Apr/2012
2    Donington Park    15/Apr/2012
3    Thruxton    29/Apr/2012
4    Oulton Park    10/Jun/2012
5    Croft    24/Jun/2012
6    Snetterton    12/Aug/2012
7    Knockhill    26/Aug/2012
8    Rockingham    23/Sep/2012
9    Silverstone    07/Oct/2012
10    Brands Hatch GP    21/Oct/2012
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paul_gmb
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by paul_gmb »

Please watch the 3 races from last weekend and you'll understand. All of them are on youtube.

EDIT: this is not for the OP, it's for anyone that hasn't watched or doesnt understand.

When I visit the UK, a BTCC race is a must.

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Rocket_Red
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by Rocket_Red »

Here is a random fact:

Knockhill is the only British circuit that can be raced clockwise and counter-clockwise.

The BTCC are going to continue to race clockwise (this year at least) as usual but it can be changed for driving experiences or other races.
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NRB78
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by NRB78 »

I think it's the close exciting racing, the personalities, the relaxed atmosphere at the races and the fact you can just go and have a chat with your favourite driver. At F1 races you're kept at arms length from paddock unless you pay a fortune or know some other way of getting in there. I love F1 but i don't like the uptight attitudes sometimes.

Also the reversed grid and ballast does make race 3 exciting as it stops the same people from winning all 3 races and i don't see it as gimmicky. F1 should maybe have gone down that route rather than DRS and KERS. And on that note i had a good weekend at Brands 2 weeks ago and i'm off to Donington this weekend :)

Argentum
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by Argentum »

NRB78 wrote:I think it's the close exciting racing, the personalities, the relaxed atmosphere at the races and the fact you can just go and have a chat with your favourite driver. At F1 races you're kept at arms length from paddock unless you pay a fortune or know some other way of getting in there. I love F1 but i don't like the uptight attitudes sometimes.

Also the reversed grid and ballast does make race 3 exciting as it stops the same people from winning all 3 races and i don't see it as gimmicky. F1 should maybe have gone down that route rather than DRS and KERS. And on that note i had a good weekend at Brands 2 weeks ago and i'm off to Donington this weekend :)



To me, it is the very definition of gimmicky.

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MistaVega23
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by MistaVega23 »

I used to love playing TOCA Touring Cars on the Playstation - the blue and yellow Lagunas versus the silver Audis and Volvos. Alain Menu versus Frank Biela and Rickard Rydell. The career mode was awesome. I never made it through an entire season without getting sacked!

I miss it!
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by hairy hat man »

Love the BTCC, usually go to a round every year at either Thruxton or Donington. I was as into BTCC as I was into F1 in the mid-late 90s, when Murray Walker used to do the commentating and all the manufacturers were there.

I remember the days of John Cleland, Tim Harvey and Smokin' Joe Winckelhock :P.

I kind of lost interest in the early 2000s when all the manufacturers pulled out and the regs changed to make the cars slower, but it's really picked up again in recent years. Great series and good value for money, as previous posters have said.

Good shout on TOCA Touring Cars on PS1 as well - classic game! I still remember Alain Menu spinning me at the last corner of the last race and costing me the championship, the b*stard!

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PedF1
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by PedF1 »

Anyone watch it today? Any news if Plato received a penalty for his 100 yard push on Flash?!?
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pyratheon141
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by pyratheon141 »

PedF1 wrote:Anyone watch it today? Any news if Plato received a penalty for his 100 yard push on Flash?!?


Hope he doesn't, what he did wasn't too dissimilar to Jackson on him earlier.

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PedF1
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by PedF1 »

pyratheon141 wrote:
PedF1 wrote:Anyone watch it today? Any news if Plato received a penalty for his 100 yard push on Flash?!?


Hope he doesn't, what he did wasn't too dissimilar to Jackson on him earlier.


I quite like the lax BTCC rules, which makes for more exciting and daring racing, BUT... Plato made out that Shedden hit the brakes early. Replays show Plato was pushing him all down the straight even before the incident. Fair enough if it's no penalty though.
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Rocket_Red
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Re: What makes BTCC so great?

Post by Rocket_Red »

I support Flash & Plato but he cheated, he shoved him off the track so far that Plato took himself off too. "Shedden broke too early" was his excuse, but that was probably because he knew Plato was doing that. He hasn't had a penalty as far as I'm aware, but he deserves one
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