Ferrari team orders? ;)

Faisal · Post by **Faisal** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:14 am

You know once you end up in gravel you aint coming back out. Why would someone risk doing that ?

Shadowcast · Post by **Shadowcast** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:15 am

Actual radio transmission was:"be careful we need this position, possible rain corners 1,2,3"

Never mentions which position common sense tells me a midfield car running on the podium would rather bag the points than risk the DNF.

First post but I've lurked for years. It's pretty easy to tell which members on the forum wear their foil hats to match their favorite teams colors. Drive of the day from Perez, but there's only one man on the top step and today it was Fernando.

Fat Albert · Post by **Fat Albert** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:15 am

Having been 1s-1.5s a lap faster than Alonso and been right on the Ferrari's tail with 6 laps to go had Perez then not even made an attempt to pass him there would have been a Steward's investigation, the telemetry would have been examined and Sauber exposed.

Falling off was a simple way to open a gap such that no glaringly obvious suspicion of wrong doing was evident. Especially since Perez could then manage the gap by closing on the Ferrari again in such a way as to imply he was trying.

I don't know about you, but it makes me wonder how many of those 28 wins needed external help! Reeky reeky, stenchy stenchy!

Johnston · Post by **Johnston** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:16 am

As much as I reckon Ferrari would put the screws on I reckon that was a genuine "Those points could make a big difference in the WCC come end of season. Don't risk binning it"

Jezick · Post by **Jezick** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:16 am

Darkarium wrote:I think Perez fully intended to overtake Alonso until that radio call broke his rhythm and made him doubt whether he should, a few corners later and he bins it. Twice in one race that the Sauber team threw away a sure win - not disappointed for them, but definitely for Perez.

THis.

If Perez felt cheated he'd have been tiddled in the press conference. He was beaming and admitted his mistake cost him the win. Good lad.

Yeah, boo to the team for breaking his rhythm.

Poor Sauber when a Massa/Perez swap is forced on you :lol:

huggybear · Post by **huggybear** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:16 am

It does seem a little odd. Perez is catching Alonso with ease, has been taking the wide line into that turn for about 15 laps before he gets told to hold position, then chucks it off into the scenery.
Wouldn't be at all surprised if it was a fix, but on the other hand, if Sauber had reacted to Ferrari pitting Alonso, Perez would have been 7 seconds down the road and it wouldn't have mattered, he'd still have won.

Infidelity · Post by **Infidelity** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:17 am

Clearly Inter-Team Orders but everyone wins.

Sergio Perez gets greater leverage in bargaining a future with Ferrari.
Sauber strengthen their relationship with their engine supplier.
Ferrari get a win and keep Fernando Alonso from crying like a girl.
Ferrari fans are happy their driver has won.
Only those that are upset are Perez fans (temporarily) and those who'd like to see Ferrari lose.

DeeSee2 · Post by **DeeSee2** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:17 am

Asphalt_World wrote:Perez went wide and risked spinning out or damaging his car. That's not how you give a race to someone if you want to do it on purpose.

Isn't it the same way Massa helped Kimi in 2007 and few others did the same later?

I mean how else he could do that? By purposely slowing down on straight? And as author of this thread let me clarify something...actually there did not have to be order from Ferrari. Sauber is smart guy and he knows how to please his engine supplier..I mean for Sauber having 2nd place instead of 1st is not that bad since nobody expected even that from them....while for Ferrari it is a "must have".

But I am pretty sure Perez did it on purpose after hearing "message" from his team. Kudos for Perez - he is very smart guy...putting aside his ambition for bigger prize...for team. Very smart guy IMO.

Asphalt_World · Post by **Asphalt_World** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:18 am

For those that need one but are struggling in making one.....

Pritchard · Post by **Pritchard** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:22 am

The lad is a Ferrari driver though isn't he, the team is heavily Ferrari backed, it isn't a very big step to consider that maybe they don't want to upset the guys who are keeping the team afloat (that Sauber is hardly brimming with sponsors is it).

Anyway, I think at the very least, an important lesson has been repeated here, never put a doubt in a drivers mind about slowing his pace a little, how often have we seen this break a drivers rhythm and lead to a big mistake.

I think Sauber looked like a team unused to being at the sharp end today, should have covered Fernando's pit stop, should have let Perez stick in his rhythm. Still a fantastic result and one of the better drives I've seen, right up there with Vettel in the STR or Damon in the Arrows.

g.trung · Post by **g.trung** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:24 am

DeeSee2 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:Perez went wide and risked spinning out or damaging his car. That's not how you give a race to someone if you want to do it on purpose.

Isn't it the same way Massa helped Kimi in 2007 and few others did the same later?

I mean how else he could do that? By purposely slowing down on straight? And as author of this thread let me clarify something...actually there did not have to be order from Ferrari. Sauber is smart guy and he knows how to please his engine supplier..I mean for Sauber having 2nd place instead of 1st is not that bad since nobody expected even that from them....while for Ferrari it is a "must have".

But I am pretty sure Perez did it on purpose after hearing "message" from his team. Kudos for Perez - he is very smart guy...putting aside his ambition for bigger prize...for team. Very smart guy IMO.

+1

Herbalist · Post by **Herbalist** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:26 am

Fat Albert wrote:Having been 1s-1.5s a lap faster than Alonso and been right on the Ferrari's tail with 6 laps to go had Perez then not even made an attempt to pass him there would have been a Steward's investigation, the telemetry would have been examined and Sauber exposed.

Falling off was a simple way to open a gap such that no glaringly obvious suspicion of wrong doing was evident. Especially since Perez could then manage the gap by closing on the Ferrari again in such a way as to imply he was trying.

I don't know about you, but it makes me wonder how many of those 28 wins needed external help! Reeky reeky, stenchy stenchy!

omg.......................

Edited by Mod: Insulting other forumers is unacceptable. I am sure that there are ways to show your disagreement without resorting to them. Mod_Yellow

AFCTUJacko · Post by **AFCTUJacko** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:26 am

Pritchard wrote:
I think Sauber looked like a team unused to being at the sharp end today

This. The team made an error pitting him a lap late. Perez made two driving errors. But they still got an excellent result.

Next time they are in this kind of position they might not make these mistakes for this experience.

chetan_rao · Post by **chetan_rao** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:27 am

Unfortunately, Ferrari (and Fred's) reputation overshadows the lack of credible evidence. Given that a lot of (initially) crazy-sounding insinuations have actually been proven true later, I would't put anything past them.

I wish someone had copied the 'Fishy Paella' thread from the old forum, for posterity's sake.

Asphalt_World · Post by **Asphalt_World** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:27 am

Sorry but time and time again we know for a fact that drivers have turned engines down, short sifted and done all manner of things in a way to bring a car home safely. Perez could have done any of these and more to safely bring the car home in second and LH was never going to catch him even if he dropped half a second a lap.

But no, Perez apparently chooses to run wide, thus putting the car at risk from damage, a spin or other things that could have left him and the team with zip.

Come on....

dizlexik · Post by **dizlexik** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:30 am

Fat Albert wrote:Having been 1s-1.5s a lap faster than Alonso and been right on the Ferrari's tail with 6 laps to go had Perez then not even made an attempt to pass him there would have been a Steward's investigation, the telemetry would have been examined and Sauber exposed.

Falling off was a simple way to open a gap such that no glaringly obvious suspicion of wrong doing was evident. Especially since Perez could then manage the gap by closing on the Ferrari again in such a way as to imply he was trying.

I don't know about you, but it makes me wonder how many of those 28 wins needed external help! Reeky reeky, stenchy stenchy!

Really. Driver spent over 1 lap trying to overtake another driver, but made mistake and lost over 5 seconds. It would be much easier to simply spin during one of earlier laps or turn his engine down like Mclaren drivers used to do if there were any instructions rather than risking potential crash of both cars. You also are happy to ignore that Perez gained over 3 seconds during next 5 laps.

Darkarium · Post by **Darkarium** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:30 am

I really don't think there is any conspiracy here. Fair enough he would have had to fake binning the car but of all places why would he have done it there? Did you not see how close he was to landing in the gravel trap which would of been almost certainly a retirement - wouldn't he have waited until the next corner where there's plenty of run off and no gravel trap?

Fiki · Post by **Fiki** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:30 am

HOERSS wrote:
Fat Albert wrote:Having been 1s-1.5s a lap faster than Alonso and been right on the Ferrari's tail with 6 laps to go had Perez then not even made an attempt to pass him there would have been a Steward's investigation, the telemetry would have been examined and Sauber exposed.

Falling off was a simple way to open a gap such that no glaringly obvious suspicion of wrong doing was evident. Especially since Perez could then manage the gap by closing on the Ferrari again in such a way as to imply he was trying.

I don't know about you, but it makes me wonder how many of those 28 wins needed external help! Reeky reeky, stenchy stenchy!

omg.......................

Could you take this test? I'm genuienly interested:

I just reported this post. Fat Albert is one of the most intelligent posters on this forum.

funkymonkey · Post by **funkymonkey** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:31 am

Fat Albert wrote:Having been 1s-1.5s a lap faster than Alonso and been right on the Ferrari's tail with 6 laps to go had Perez then not even made an attempt to pass him there would have been a Steward's investigation, the telemetry would have been examined and Sauber exposed.

Falling off was a simple way to open a gap such that no glaringly obvious suspicion of wrong doing was evident. Especially since Perez could then manage the gap by closing on the Ferrari again in such a way as to imply he was trying.

I don't know about you, but it makes me wonder how many of those 28 wins needed external help! Reeky reeky, stenchy stenchy!

LOL,

None of this would have happened. They are free to "NOT COMPETE" with any other team if they want to. Look at RedBull and TR. They do it openly almost every race. Sauber - Ferrari battle for first place was folding out for what? first time ever?
They could have messaged "Dont try to overtake Alonso" loud and clear on radio and nothing would have happened. No action would be taken by FIA because Sauber desperately needed those point and they are free to tell their drivers which risks to take and which not to.

The only stench is coming from your post.

AFCTUJacko · Post by **AFCTUJacko** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:32 am

Fat Albert wrote:Having been 1s-1.5s a lap faster than Alonso and been right on the Ferrari's tail with 6 laps to go had Perez then not even made an attempt to pass him there would have been a Steward's investigation, the telemetry would have been examined and Sauber exposed.

Falling off was a simple way to open a gap such that no glaringly obvious suspicion of wrong doing was evident. Especially since Perez could then manage the gap by closing on the Ferrari again in such a way as to imply he was trying.

I don't know about you, but it makes me wonder how many of those 28 wins needed external help! Reeky reeky, stenchy stenchy!

Exposed? Exposed as what?

There is nothing in the rulebook saying that a team perfectly happy with their position can't take steps to hold their position and not challenge the car in front. Is there?!

It would only have been a problem had it been proved that Ferrari TOLD Sauber to stop him challenging.

Muzzyf1 · Post by **Muzzyf1** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:32 am

some people have nothing better to do than creat these dumb threads that are not even worth talking about sour sour grapes for hamilton button fanboys ! who cant handle the fact that alonso is leading there beloved team

phazblade · Post by **phazblade** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:33 am

Sky just interviewed a Sauber Executive, not a mention of the Radio Message.

Brundle, Hill and other Stooge should be ashamed of themselves, all very cosy.

EJ wouldn't have able to resist it ......... too cosy by far

Jomox · Post by **Jomox** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:34 am

It is a bit funny how Perez without a doubt would of overtook Alonso, was told to take it easy and then he makes a mistake and no win.

Seems the Ferrari power stepped in here.

N1SM032 · Post by **N1SM032** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:35 am

Muzzyf1 wrote:some people have nothing better to do than creat these dumb threads that are not even worth talking about sour sour grapes for hamilton button fanboys ! who cant handle the fact that alonso is leading there beloved team

agreed

Muzzyf1 · Post by **Muzzyf1** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:35 am

user Fat albert wins the award for the most intelligent PF1 poster !

Muzzyf1 · Post by **Muzzyf1** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:37 am

phazblade wrote:Sky just interviewed a Sauber Executive, not a mention of the Radio Message.

Brundle, Hill and other Stooge should be ashamed of themselves, all very cosy.

EJ wouldn't have able to resist it ......... too cosy by far

gee one look at your signature pic will reveal why you are a hater !

cjf1 · Post by **cjf1** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:37 am

Muzzyf1 wrote:some people have nothing better to do than creat these dumb threads that are not even worth talking about sour sour grapes for hamilton button fanboys ! who cant handle the fact that alonso is leading there beloved team

Thank god for Mclaren that everyone lets them win once in a while so that they don't get supplied with dodgy McLaren electronic units.

Perez made a mistake and lost the win for himself. Alonso was faultless in a weak Ferrari car.

sultanofhyd · Post by **sultanofhyd** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:37 am

Jomox wrote:It is a bit funny how Perez without a doubt would of overtook Alonso, was told to take it easy and then he makes a mistake and no win.

Seems the Ferrari power stepped in here.

He would have? How are you so sure?

dizlexik · Post by **dizlexik** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:38 am

Jomox wrote:It is a bit funny how Perez without a doubt would of overtook Alonso, was told to take it easy and then he makes a mistake and no win.

Seems the Ferrari power stepped in here.

Without doubt? Button needed some time to overtake much slower Massa. Button didn't make error, while Perez did. No silly conspiracy here. :uhoh:

stealthdog · Post by **stealthdog** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:38 am

Muzzyf1 wrote:some people have nothing better to do than creat these dumb threads that are not even worth talking about sour sour grapes for hamilton button fanboys ! who cant handle the fact that alonso is leading there beloved team

No. just wanted perez to win.

Jomox · Post by **Jomox** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:39 am

So funny to see all the Ferrari / Alonso fans get so touchy. We are talking about Ferrari here, open your eyes, it's obvious...

Herbalist · Post by **Herbalist** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:41 am

Fiki wrote:
HOERSS wrote:
Fat Albert wrote:Having been 1s-1.5s a lap faster than Alonso and been right on the Ferrari's tail with 6 laps to go had Perez then not even made an attempt to pass him there would have been a Steward's investigation, the telemetry would have been examined and Sauber exposed.

Falling off was a simple way to open a gap such that no glaringly obvious suspicion of wrong doing was evident. Especially since Perez could then manage the gap by closing on the Ferrari again in such a way as to imply he was trying.

I don't know about you, but it makes me wonder how many of those 28 wins needed external help! Reeky reeky, stenchy stenchy!

omg.......................

Could you take this test? I'm genuienly interested:
I just reported this post. Fat Albert is one of the most intelligent posters on this forum.

Yes, that clearly shows...

mabey you're in the same boat, who knows

Jomox · Post by **Jomox** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:43 am

Fat Albert wrote:Having been 1s-1.5s a lap faster than Alonso and been right on the Ferrari's tail with 6 laps to go had Perez then not even made an attempt to pass him there would have been a Steward's investigation, the telemetry would have been examined and Sauber exposed.

Falling off was a simple way to open a gap such that no glaringly obvious suspicion of wrong doing was evident. Especially since Perez could then manage the gap by closing on the Ferrari again in such a way as to imply he was trying.

I don't know about you, but it makes me wonder how many of those 28 wins needed external help! Reeky reeky, stenchy stenchy!

Fully agreed. I cant even believe people are defending Ferrari over this considering we know how the team operates.

This is far to suspicious.

chetan_rao · Post by **chetan_rao** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:45 am

Muzzyf1 wrote:user Fat albert wins the award for the most intelligent PF1 poster !

You aren't quite covering yourself in glory either, are you, trying to drag Mclaren into the debate? A lot of people on this thread are NOT Mclaren fans, if you'd bothered to look.

REPLICATE · Post by **REPLICATE** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:46 am

Safety Cars Fault. Robbed us of an even more exciting race.

funkymonkey · Post by **funkymonkey** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:46 am

Jomox wrote:So funny to see all the Ferrari / Alonso fans get so touchy. We are talking about Ferrari here, open your eyes, it's obvious...

dizlexik · Post by **dizlexik** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:48 am

Jomox wrote:So funny to see all the Ferrari / Alonso fans get so touchy. We are talking about Ferrari here, open your eyes, it's obvious...

UFO and aliens are real. Open you eyes, it's obvious

AravJ · Post by **AravJ** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:51 am

He was told "be carefull these are good points" . Thats far too cryptic for them to have practised and for Perez to understand as orders since they hardly ever race Ferrari. He genuinly did not look disapointed in the interview. So here is some more conspiricy theories for you if you realy believe that one. Red Bull told HRT to spoil Butonss. race and Maclaren retaliated by telly HRT to spoil Vettels race. How about Button was favoured to come in first for tyers so that he could get ahead of Lewis. How about Groseon who has a renault engine was ordered to take out Schumi to clear the way for the Red Bulls who also drives Renault engine. Comon you cant say Sauber will sacrifice a win just because Ferrari supply engines. If it was an order if anything it was not to take a risk like Maldonado in Aus and bank the points.
You cant tell me Sauber had any reason in the past few seasons to get Perez to run wide when he is behind a Ferrari and they tell him "be careful we need these points"

Jomox · Post by **Jomox** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:56 am

Sauber with Ferrari engine.
Perez in Ferrari young driver program.
Perez gets close to Alonso
Sauber tell Perez to take it easy (When he clearly could overtake him easily)
Perez makes a mistake and win goes to Ferrari.

Far to obvious.

dizlexik wrote:
Jomox wrote:So funny to see all the Ferrari / Alonso fans get so touchy. We are talking about Ferrari here, open your eyes, it's obvious...

UFO and aliens are real. Open you eyes, it's obvious

Actually to think Aliens are not real or we are alone considering the size of the universe it would be quite naive. But then I guess you don't actually understand how big our universe is.

slampe · Post by **slampe** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:57 am

Jomox wrote:
Fat Albert wrote:Having been 1s-1.5s a lap faster than Alonso and been right on the Ferrari's tail with 6 laps to go had Perez then not even made an attempt to pass him there would have been a Steward's investigation, the telemetry would have been examined and Sauber exposed.

Falling off was a simple way to open a gap such that no glaringly obvious suspicion of wrong doing was evident. Especially since Perez could then manage the gap by closing on the Ferrari again in such a way as to imply he was trying.

I don't know about you, but it makes me wonder how many of those 28 wins needed external help! Reeky reeky, stenchy stenchy!

Fully agreed. I cant even believe people are defending Ferrari over this considering we know how the team operates.

This is far to suspicious.

There is an investigation when a car fails to make an attempt to pass the car in front? I did not know that...

Perez was very quick, closing at a high rate, then made a small error in a dangerous place. After the mistake, he continues to haul in Fernando... What is so dramatically wrong with this situation? Is it impossible for the inexperienced Perez to make a mistake? Or is it the fact that 'Alonso's 28 wins need external help' ... Perez was even happy!

When you think that Alonso or Ferrari for that matter have that much power that other teams are willing to give away victories, you've probably watched too much mafia flicks!

Why am I even replying to this :lol:

Congrats Alonso and Perez, both drove beautiful and put those cars in places they shouldn't be! Great race