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Tufty wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:15 pm

JN23 wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:37 pm

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:33 pm

Delphic wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:59 pm

New member here. I have introduced myself in the New members introduction thread.

I think Red Bull will take both the titles. Max and Checo as a team will perform better than Lewis + Bottas, that is, lets say if Lewis wins a race or two, I believe it is more likely from this point on for Checo to score more points than Bottas.

The drivers championship will be close but I think Max will squeak out in the end. Max is driving better than Lewis this year, obviously he has a much better car compared to the RBs of previous years. Checo getting the hang of the car will keep Lewis honest. So, in a way Red Bull can strategize with their two drivers against one. Unless Bottas steps up. Thats why Mercedes have to start paying attention to Bottas more than they have now. Or if they feel Bottas is a lost cause, then get Russell or someone who can take the fight to Checo and the Red Bull.

Lewis lost that great opportunity to score points in Baku and get a double digit lead. I dont think Max will be unlucky again, and for Lewis to get comfortable he needs a race like Monaco, except the roles are reversed, where Lewis wins and Max is outside the top 5.

Hi

I agree with you that Bottas potentially going rogue could make things harder for Mercedes.

Would be a bit ironic if their wingman not being wingmanny enough costs them one or both championships.

Not unprecedented though, arguably that's the role Lewis was expected to play in 2007

Very true, although Lewis performed too well to be a wingman whereas Bottas is at the other end.

Tufty wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:15 pm

JN23 wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:37 pm

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:33 pm

Delphic wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:59 pm

New member here. I have introduced myself in the New members introduction thread.

I think Red Bull will take both the titles. Max and Checo as a team will perform better than Lewis + Bottas, that is, lets say if Lewis wins a race or two, I believe it is more likely from this point on for Checo to score more points than Bottas.

The drivers championship will be close but I think Max will squeak out in the end. Max is driving better than Lewis this year, obviously he has a much better car compared to the RBs of previous years. Checo getting the hang of the car will keep Lewis honest. So, in a way Red Bull can strategize with their two drivers against one. Unless Bottas steps up. Thats why Mercedes have to start paying attention to Bottas more than they have now. Or if they feel Bottas is a lost cause, then get Russell or someone who can take the fight to Checo and the Red Bull.

Lewis lost that great opportunity to score points in Baku and get a double digit lead. I dont think Max will be unlucky again, and for Lewis to get comfortable he needs a race like Monaco, except the roles are reversed, where Lewis wins and Max is outside the top 5.

Hi

I agree with you that Bottas potentially going rogue could make things harder for Mercedes.

Would be a bit ironic if their wingman not being wingmanny enough costs them one or both championships.

Not unprecedented though, arguably that's the role Lewis was expected to play in 2007

I think a further dynamic is the role that Gasly has being able to play these past two races.

JN23 wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:50 pm

Tufty wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:15 pm

JN23 wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:37 pm

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:33 pm

Delphic wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:59 pm

New member here. I have introduced myself in the New members introduction thread.

I think Red Bull will take both the titles. Max and Checo as a team will perform better than Lewis + Bottas, that is, lets say if Lewis wins a race or two, I believe it is more likely from this point on for Checo to score more points than Bottas.

The drivers championship will be close but I think Max will squeak out in the end. Max is driving better than Lewis this year, obviously he has a much better car compared to the RBs of previous years. Checo getting the hang of the car will keep Lewis honest. So, in a way Red Bull can strategize with their two drivers against one. Unless Bottas steps up. Thats why Mercedes have to start paying attention to Bottas more than they have now. Or if they feel Bottas is a lost cause, then get Russell or someone who can take the fight to Checo and the Red Bull.

Lewis lost that great opportunity to score points in Baku and get a double digit lead. I dont think Max will be unlucky again, and for Lewis to get comfortable he needs a race like Monaco, except the roles are reversed, where Lewis wins and Max is outside the top 5.

Hi

I agree with you that Bottas potentially going rogue could make things harder for Mercedes.

Would be a bit ironic if their wingman not being wingmanny enough costs them one or both championships.

Not unprecedented though, arguably that's the role Lewis was expected to play in 2007

Very true, although Lewis performed too well to be a wingman whereas Bottas is at the other end.

True, but it's having the same effect - the intended second driver isn't keeping himself between his teammate and their rival.

pokerman wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:35 pm

Tufty wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:15 pm

JN23 wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:37 pm

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:33 pm

Delphic wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:59 pm

New member here. I have introduced myself in the New members introduction thread.

I think Red Bull will take both the titles. Max and Checo as a team will perform better than Lewis + Bottas, that is, lets say if Lewis wins a race or two, I believe it is more likely from this point on for Checo to score more points than Bottas.

The drivers championship will be close but I think Max will squeak out in the end. Max is driving better than Lewis this year, obviously he has a much better car compared to the RBs of previous years. Checo getting the hang of the car will keep Lewis honest. So, in a way Red Bull can strategize with their two drivers against one. Unless Bottas steps up. Thats why Mercedes have to start paying attention to Bottas more than they have now. Or if they feel Bottas is a lost cause, then get Russell or someone who can take the fight to Checo and the Red Bull.

Lewis lost that great opportunity to score points in Baku and get a double digit lead. I dont think Max will be unlucky again, and for Lewis to get comfortable he needs a race like Monaco, except the roles are reversed, where Lewis wins and Max is outside the top 5.

Hi

I agree with you that Bottas potentially going rogue could make things harder for Mercedes.

Would be a bit ironic if their wingman not being wingmanny enough costs them one or both championships.

Not unprecedented though, arguably that's the role Lewis was expected to play in 2007

I think a further dynamic is the role that Gasly has being able to play these past two races.

I hadn't considered Gasly, but ironically after being shafted by the big team he might be the key to their title duck ending.

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:33 pm

Delphic wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:59 pm

New member here. I have introduced myself in the New members introduction thread.

I think Red Bull will take both the titles. Max and Checo as a team will perform better than Lewis + Bottas, that is, lets say if Lewis wins a race or two, I believe it is more likely from this point on for Checo to score more points than Bottas.

The drivers championship will be close but I think Max will squeak out in the end. Max is driving better than Lewis this year, obviously he has a much better car compared to the RBs of previous years. Checo getting the hang of the car will keep Lewis honest. So, in a way Red Bull can strategize with their two drivers against one. Unless Bottas steps up. Thats why Mercedes have to start paying attention to Bottas more than they have now. Or if they feel Bottas is a lost cause, then get Russell or someone who can take the fight to Checo and the Red Bull.

Lewis lost that great opportunity to score points in Baku and get a double digit lead. I dont think Max will be unlucky again, and for Lewis to get comfortable he needs a race like Monaco, except the roles are reversed, where Lewis wins and Max is outside the top 5.

Hi

I agree with you that Bottas potentially going rogue could make things harder for Mercedes.

I don't think Bottas will go "rogue", but I get what you are saying, Bottas and Mercedes seem to have checked out on each other, and that doesnt bode well for Lewis' title fight. Until last year and the earlier races this year Checo was getting used to the car. Jury is still out on that, but I am assuming he will get more comfortable in that car as the year goes by. So, the off track stuff that Mercedes more often than not lacked compared to Red Bull, like pit stops, strategy will be more visible. Lewis and the better car made up for their slow pit stops compared to RBs. Until now Mercedes would get away with having 0.2 seconds slower pit stops, but with Red Bull now being better and Max driving his wheels off, Mercedes cannot afford that.

If Gasly is closer to the Mercedes then that throws another wrench in the equation. Horner now has potentially 3 cars he can use to fight off Lewis. Mercedes have to be prefect in almost every race from this point on, which I dont see happening.

Anyone changed their mind after this weekend? I think Red Bull’s pace this weekend has surprised a lot of people.

JN23 wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:13 pm

Anyone changed their mind after this weekend? I think Red Bull’s pace this weekend has surprised a lot of people.

I think Red Bull are pretty much nailed on for the WCC, unless there is some seismic upset in car performance - but the WDC could go either way and would be deserved by whoever wins it.

Alienturnedhuman wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:22 pm

JN23 wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:13 pm

Anyone changed their mind after this weekend? I think Red Bull’s pace this weekend has surprised a lot of people.

I think Red Bull are pretty much nailed on for the WCC, unless there is some seismic upset in car performance - but the WDC could go either way and would be deserved by whoever wins it.

Yeah this is my view too at the moment. Hopefully it goes the distance.

JN23 wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:25 pm

Alienturnedhuman wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:22 pm

JN23 wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:13 pm

Anyone changed their mind after this weekend? I think Red Bull’s pace this weekend has surprised a lot of people.

I think Red Bull are pretty much nailed on for the WCC, unless there is some seismic upset in car performance - but the WDC could go either way and would be deserved by whoever wins it.

Yeah this is my view too at the moment. Hopefully it goes the distance.

While we all have favorites ... keeping us in suspense over the season (based on performance) is what makes for an engaging, entertaining experience! Better than recent (predictable) results.

I voted for Hamilton/Red Bull. Red Bull I remain fairly confident about, but Hamilton? I'm increasingly unsure. He seemed happy with P2 today, which is strange given he lost points to Max.

JN23 wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:13 pm

Anyone changed their mind after this weekend? I think Red Bull’s pace this weekend has surprised a lot of people.

Still think Mercedes had the better race car. Will be interesting to see how the teams evolve going into race 2.

Race 2? Did I miss something?

I'm going to say Lewis and Red Bull to win their respective championships. Just.

JN23 wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:13 pm

Anyone changed their mind after this weekend? I think Red Bull’s pace this weekend has surprised a lot of people.

I said Max and Red Bull, and today's race solidified my opinion. WCC is all but done at this point. Regarding WDC, I think the Red Bull package (Max + RB + Pit crew/ strategy) is better than the Merc package (LH + #44 Merc + Pit Crew strategy).

The French GP kid of convinced me that it will be a tall task for Lewis to win the WDC and eventually he will fall short. I mean, Max and Red Bull were much better today in what everyone called the Merc hunting ground. For Lewis to stay in contention he has to win the next race, or hope that Max finishes out of points, both of which seem very unlikely. In other words, LH and Merc have to hope that Max doesn't stretch his lead to over 20 points after the twin Austria races. After today I would be shocked if LH wins either one of those races (unless Max has a DNF or something).
By the time they reach Silverstone, the gap will be too large, and then we will get to tracks where Red Bulls will have a better package. They already showed today that they were better on the straights than the Mercs.

Red Bulls have dominated practices, qualifying, and the races over the last three races. This is not possible just because the drivers make mistakes or the strategies fail. It is because they have a better unit which forces the other team to be on their toes all the time, hence those errors.

Where do people stand on this question now?

Drivers lead down to eight and contractors down to four points.

Still think Max Is favourite for the drivers championship. Still has the fastest car in general so can’t see why he wouldn’t build up a lead again. The constructors is a little more unclear. Perez has taken a bit of a dip in form so that could swing either way

My initial vote was for Hamilton and Mercedes, but I have to admit that despite today's setback Verstappen has to be favourite now. He looks to have the beating of Hamilton on all types of circuit, and without the collision he would have won today's race.

I still think Mercedes for the constructors' title though. Perez is not on the pace, and the bizarre pit strategy he was on today shows how every aspect of Red Bull's operation is centred around Verstappen's title challenge. It's reminiscent of the Alonso/Renault partnership, and it seems to be working but I think it will cost them the constructors' title. They're only ahead now because Bottas has had some rotten luck at times.

Pest44 wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:31 pm

Still think Max Is favourite for the drivers championship. Still has the fastest car in general so can’t see why he wouldn’t build up a lead again. The constructors is a little more unclear. Perez has taken a bit of a dip in form so that could swing either way

+1 . I expect a return to the norm in Hungary with Max pulling away with ease and Hamilton collecting the scraps. Mercedes might clinch that 8th WCC if Bottas keeps up the current form.

Nothing has changed. Normal service will resume in Hungary. Max still has the faster car. C1 favored Merc and not many tracks are left. Merc had a hard time against Ferrari on C2!

I think max for WDC but merc WCC
Max is a beast at setup (more so than anyone imo) has been on it every weekend and has arguably the better car package and probably has equal ish pace as hamilton anyway. Depends how he reacts to silverstone, can see him slipping on a banana trying to take lewis out and gifting him a win.
When it was vettel lewis often split or put the merc on pole at circuits he shouldnt have, just dont see that happening enough vs. Verstappen and the RB. At least vs. Vettel he knew he was quicker so could make the difference. Max and lewis cancel each other out imo

Yeboah24 wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:58 pm

I think max for WDC but merc WCC
Max is a beast at setup (more so than anyone imo) has been on it every weekend and has arguably the better car package and probably has equal ish pace as hamilton anyway. Depends how he reacts to silverstone, can see him slipping on a banana trying to take lewis out and gifting him a win.
When it was vettel lewis often split or put the merc on pole at circuits he shouldnt have, just dont see that happening enough vs. Verstappen and the RB. At least vs. Vettel he knew he was quicker so could make the difference. Max and lewis cancel each other out imo

This is where Horner has to constantly remind Max that the best form of payback is beating Hamilton on track and winning the WDC. Doing something silly like trying to take Hamilton out will end badly.

I'm visiting RBR later this year and it's beginning to occur to me that we may have a new WDC by the time I go. I hope not, but the way things are going, Mercedes will need a massive upgrade to topple RBR

Surprised that Verstappen has so little votes to become WDC, he has the superior car and is in top 3 drivers on the grid so don't think there is much Hamilton will be able to do in the long run unless Merc pull their finger out, if you look at Austria I think this is basically how the races will go from here on in, next were at Hungary and red bull are going to be supreme there

FormulaFun wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:41 pm

Surprised that Verstappen has so little votes to become WDC, he has the superior car and is in top 3 drivers on the grid so don't think there is much Hamilton will be able to do in the long run unless Merc pull their finger out, if you look at Austria I think this is basically how the races will go from here on in, next were at Hungary and red bull are going to be supreme there

Look when the poll was opened, it was after Monaco. At the time, most people still thought that Mercedes was the superior car. They certainly looked faster in Portugal and Spain. Red Bull looked faster in Monaco, but I assume that most people thought that was an outlier.

Baku was when I began leaning towards Max.

I'm desperately hoping Hamilton & Merc can win the championship but, while I feel Merc will still wrap up the WCC, I fear that all things being equal, Verstappen will win the WDC.

I think RB is the better of the 2 cars but Bottas can handle the Merc better than Perez can handle the RB.

On the basis of today's result going into the mid season break. I'm in the situation where I think that lewis and Mercedes will win the title.

I base this on that both max and Sergio are most likely going to take a penalty for new engine components. Which will compromise the drivers and team at the individual Grand prix they take the penalty. Where they take the penalty may play a part as well.

Add in that lewis is leading the championship as it stands. And with spa monza coming up and the high speed nature of the circuits which may favour mercedes. Red bull playing catch up could lead to mistakes.

I think Hamilton wins it .. Since he joined Mercedes he is hands down the luckiest driver in all track situations .. expect it to continue this year ..

I expect Hamilton to win this. I can't help but feel Verstappen had to make hay when the sun was shining. The way the luck has fell has seen that not happen - with neutral luck he could have been 50pts clear.

Mercedes and Hamilton are always stronger in the 2nd half of the season.

schumilegend wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:57 pm

I think Hamilton wins it .. Since he joined Mercedes he is hands down the luckiest driver in all track situations .. expect it to continue this year ..

2016 and Malaysia would say differently. He has had a few things fall in to his lap but he also has made a lot of his own luck.

But to say since he joined when 2016 was clearly evident luck wasn't on his side just isn't true.

Verstappen is having his own “2016”, he deserves to be leading the WDC quite comfortably. Funny thing is, if those issues in the last 2 races happened to Hamilton, the WDC would be over with him 60+ points clear. Fine margins

It's been a funny old season.

Lots of fans going haywire, especially with them being so invested and having judgment clouded in curious ways by their partisanship. You've got people pouncing on narratives on limited evidence because it finally aligns with their long held beliefs or suspicions with regard to who is the best driver around, and the frankly hilarious paranoia of RBR and Merc fans regarding the competitiveness of the cars, especially perhaps from the Merc side of things where so many fans across the webz thought Merc were D O N E. Why exactly?

And now look, with Mercedes looking very strong at both Silverstone and Hungary, to cap off the first half of the season in which the cars on balance have been well-matched, where any overall edge in either direction isn't large.

It's Mercedes for crying out loud - lol. They're a winning machine capable of fighting back and even regaining the initiative even from a very fired up and motivated Red Bull.

But I think a lot of the sentiment is actually a nod to the quality many perceive Verstappen to have, because no such fever pitch of talk surrounded the 2017 and 2018 seasons when it was Vettel who was Hamilton's rival.

A lot of paranoia from Merc fans probably comes from the belief that if RBR have an edge, Max is just gonna take it home, especially seeing that on balance he has been the better performer this year out of himself and LH.

So what happens for the rest of the season? All I know is that right now, Mercedes have some momentum.

It's so difficult to call a winner right now in this battle.

Invade wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:52 pm

So what happens for the rest of the season? All I know is that right now, Mercedes have some momentum.

After Austria (2), I bet Mercedes couldn't wait for this four week break but now I imagine they wish there was no break!

We're halfway through and Merc has retaken the lead. Seems like this season will come down to competent strategy and luck. Merc has had bad strategy all year, this last race basically throwing away P1. I mean if Lewis had come in for inters he'd be in front anyway. Staying out to be in the front row was a gamble not even back markers considered. And with Max all the way in the back with a badly damaged car, what was the point of that gamble again? They're obviously spooked by RB's rise and I don't think they'll feel comfortable until they can clearly see that they have better race pace.

RB's been handed some mixed luck all year, more bad than good. They've had to work hard to get their car right only for Merc to equal or eclipse them with a "modest" upgrade. Now they're down two PU's but hopefully the FIA won't penalize them for it. I think they need to revise the rules to only penalize teams who have to change a PU due to reliability and not crashes.

So the title is still up for grabs but it seems more like this year is Merc's to lose as RB's gone from finally a balanced car back to the undriveable garbage of the past few years. If Ferrari were stronger this year they could've taken points away from Merc but not even McLaren's going to be up front. So either way Merc will retain WCC

Lewis seems to always have luck on his side so I'd put my money on him. Two races ago I'd have given a different answer.

Red Bull still have a car capable and Max is driving it well so It's still up for grabs. They'll need the luck to turn a bit as always, and their PU situation isn't great but it should be game on.

Mercedes upgrades seemed to hit and Lewis is driving well so they'll feel good about their chances too even if RB stop getting the short end of the luck.

All to play for.

I originally made this thread post-Azerbaijan when both championship contenders had not scored. I'm assuming most votes were made around then and the results as I reset the poll now are as follows:

Combination	Votes
Hamilton & Mercedes	20
Hamilton & Red Bull	18
Verstappen & Mercedes	6
Verstappen & Red Bull	6

I've reset the poll now to see what we think now, and plan to do so every so often going forward, unless it becomes clear one combination is going to happen, but I imagine that will be unlikely.

Personally I now fancy Mercedes for the Constructors, I think Bottas has been solid recently and Perez is struggling. Drivers is still too close to call.

Verstappen and Mercedes.

I think Verstappen will have the better car for the run in and will pip Hamilton to the title. Bottas will outperform Perez and deliver the constructors.

I've gone for Verstappen and Red Bull, as much as it seems like a long shot at the moment. They've just been hit with a couple of heavy blows, but I expect them to out-develop Mercedes in the end and Max to deliver the goods.

Perez vs. Bottas is looking like it could go either way, so I think whoever wins the WDC will also likely win the WCC.

I've felt this entire season that Mercedes had been intentionally complacent, shifting a very large portion of their resources into next season, and would turn up their performances with ease if they found themselves in a tight spot, and that's exactly what happened with the Silverstone updates.

Still sticking with Verstappen and Red Bull.

I still think that the Red Bull is a faster car. Without Max in the last two races it is hard to be positive about Merc's chances the rest of the way. The triple header after the break should make it clear, but it is still Max's and Red Bull's championships to lose. That's why I was face palming all of last two weeks. Max and Red Bull should just sit back and do all the talking on the race track. Absolutely no need for Max to get aggressive going forward, and instead should live to fight another day, like Lewis did in his championship years. Off track, Horner should just speak less and let his unit do the work. The attempted campaign against Lewis just feels like a desperate attempt of someone who is entitled.