planetf1.com

So after Hamilton's comments in Spain, the FIA is introducing new tests (inevitably for RBR):https://www.planetf1.com/news/fia-tests-bendy-wings/

Just how much influence does Merc have on the FIA (and F1 in general)? The secret tyre tests, the Ferrari engine investigation saga, the bendy wing allegations, the Aston Martin copying episode, the FRIC suspension drama, the resistance to change any rules - seems like they get away with more than anyone else (I'm not even talking about their drivers escaping slam dunk penalties, like Hamilton in Brazil 2018 for blocking Kimi in qualifying).

Time to open the MAFIA (Mercedes and FIA) conspiracy thread?

Surely the Ferrari engine saga very much points the other way?

mikeyg123 wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:30 pm

Surely the Ferrari engine saga very much points the other way?

From what I read Merc were firmly behind getting the additional sensors and urging the FIA to investigate in depth - right or wrong, it is amusing that the FIA seems to dance to their tunes.

Seems a legit point to me. Red Bull has been in flexiwing controversies before.

Personally I don't see any favouritism shown to Mercedes more than anyone else on the grid.

Mercedes helping the FIA in stopping cheating is them being the bad guys, Ferrari should have been allowed to carry on with their engine and Red Bull allowed to go back to their glory years with the flexi wings.

MistaVega23 wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:33 pm

Seems a legit point to me. Red Bull has been in flexiwing controversies before.

Personally I don't see any favouritism shown to Mercedes more than anyone else on the grid.

And cleared of them before. Wolff (and Hamilton) brought it up in Spain, and suddenly the FIA is bending over backwards to look into the matter.

On the other side Racing Point copies the Merc car, lies about it publicly, and escapes with a slap on the wrist instead of being forced to redesign the component in question or get thrown out of the competition. Doesn't seem like a very neutral organization to me.

Isn't it pretty standard practice for teams to exploit the rules as far as they can, and for other teams to bring it up to the attention of the authorities? This is by no means a Merc-specific thing.

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:38 pm

Mercedes helping the FIA in stopping cheating is them being the bad guys, Ferrari should have been allowed to carry on with their engine and Red Bull allowed to go back to their glory years with the flexi wings.

That's not the point though, is it? What about Mercedes being allowed to get away with cheating or unsporting behaviour, or borderline illegal "innovations" that other teams get punished for?

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:40 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:38 pm

Mercedes helping the FIA in stopping cheating is them being the bad guys, Ferrari should have been allowed to carry on with their engine and Red Bull allowed to go back to their glory years with the flexi wings.

That's not the point though, is it? What about Mercedes being allowed to get away with cheating or unsporting behaviour, or borderline illegal "innovations" that other teams get punished for?

What cheating did they get away with?

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:45 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:40 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:38 pm

Mercedes helping the FIA in stopping cheating is them being the bad guys, Ferrari should have been allowed to carry on with their engine and Red Bull allowed to go back to their glory years with the flexi wings.

That's not the point though, is it? What about Mercedes being allowed to get away with cheating or unsporting behaviour, or borderline illegal "innovations" that other teams get punished for?

What cheating did they get away with?

Racing point saga last year is one example. The illegal tyre test is another.

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:47 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:45 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:40 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:38 pm

Mercedes helping the FIA in stopping cheating is them being the bad guys, Ferrari should have been allowed to carry on with their engine and Red Bull allowed to go back to their glory years with the flexi wings.

That's not the point though, is it? What about Mercedes being allowed to get away with cheating or unsporting behaviour, or borderline illegal "innovations" that other teams get punished for?

What cheating did they get away with?

Racing point saga last year is one example. The illegal tyre test is another.

The first you seem to be making up only Aston Martin came under investigation, the second they got penalised for, the person responsible for that Ross Brawn, ex Ferrari, left the team at the end of that year.

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:52 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:47 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:45 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:40 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:38 pm

Mercedes helping the FIA in stopping cheating is them being the bad guys, Ferrari should have been allowed to carry on with their engine and Red Bull allowed to go back to their glory years with the flexi wings.

That's not the point though, is it? What about Mercedes being allowed to get away with cheating or unsporting behaviour, or borderline illegal "innovations" that other teams get punished for?

What cheating did they get away with?

Racing point saga last year is one example. The illegal tyre test is another.

The first you seem to be making up only Aston Martin came under investigation, the second they got penalised for, the person responsible for that Ross Brawn, ex Ferrari, left the team at the end of that year.

Everyone knows Ross Brawn worked for Ferrari at some point - how is that relevant here? Do you write this after James Allison's name as well? What about Toto Wolff, ex Williams? Or Lewis Hamilton, ex McLaren?

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:52 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:47 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:45 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:40 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:38 pm

Mercedes helping the FIA in stopping cheating is them being the bad guys, Ferrari should have been allowed to carry on with their engine and Red Bull allowed to go back to their glory years with the flexi wings.

That's not the point though, is it? What about Mercedes being allowed to get away with cheating or unsporting behaviour, or borderline illegal "innovations" that other teams get punished for?

What cheating did they get away with?

Racing point saga last year is one example. The illegal tyre test is another.

The first you seem to be making up only Aston Martin came under investigation, the second they got penalised for, the person responsible for that Ross Brawn, ex Ferrari, left the team at the end of that year.

Merc didn't even come under investigation for this - the plot thickens!

If it is Mercedes that have noticed dodgy things. then good on them for bringing it up with the FIA.

By the way, are there any pictures on-line that show what they are talking about?

I guess plenty of teams got away with stuff through the years. FIA is political if nothing else

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:55 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:52 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:47 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:45 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:40 pm

That's not the point though, is it? What about Mercedes being allowed to get away with cheating or unsporting behaviour, or borderline illegal "innovations" that other teams get punished for?

What cheating did they get away with?

Racing point saga last year is one example. The illegal tyre test is another.

The first you seem to be making up only Aston Martin came under investigation, the second they got penalised for, the person responsible for that Ross Brawn, ex Ferrari, left the team at the end of that year.

Everyone knows Ross Brawn worked for Ferrari at some point - how is that relevant here? Do you write this after James Allison's name as well? What about Toto Wolff, ex Williams? Or Lewis Hamilton, ex McLaren?

It's just interesting who was actually responsible for it and you said that Mercedes got away with it, which they didn't.

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:55 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:52 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:47 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:45 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:40 pm

That's not the point though, is it? What about Mercedes being allowed to get away with cheating or unsporting behaviour, or borderline illegal "innovations" that other teams get punished for?

What cheating did they get away with?

Racing point saga last year is one example. The illegal tyre test is another.

The first you seem to be making up only Aston Martin came under investigation, the second they got penalised for, the person responsible for that Ross Brawn, ex Ferrari, left the team at the end of that year.

Merc didn't even come under investigation for this - the plot thickens!

Maybe because they had nothing to answer for, it's good we no longer have kangaroo courts.

Asphalt_World wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:56 pm

If it is Mercedes that have noticed dodgy things. then good on them for bringing it up with the FIA.

By the way, are there any pictures on-line that show what they are talking about?

Sure - but when they do dodgy things it is considered innovation (such as DAS, which never should have been allowed imo).

Here's a video I found of the wing from Spain: https://streamable.com/6xb9xv (mods: not sure if this is allowed - please feel free to remove if not)

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:00 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:55 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:52 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:47 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:45 pm

What cheating did they get away with?

Racing point saga last year is one example. The illegal tyre test is another.

The first you seem to be making up only Aston Martin came under investigation, the second they got penalised for, the person responsible for that Ross Brawn, ex Ferrari, left the team at the end of that year.

Everyone knows Ross Brawn worked for Ferrari at some point - how is that relevant here? Do you write this after James Allison's name as well? What about Toto Wolff, ex Williams? Or Lewis Hamilton, ex McLaren?

It's just interesting who was actually responsible for it and you said that Mercedes got away with it, which they didn't.

Are you so defensive about them solely because Hamilton drives for them? Even though Schumacher and Ross Brawn, ex Ferrari, built the team up?

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:03 pm

Asphalt_World wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:56 pm

If it is Mercedes that have noticed dodgy things. then good on them for bringing it up with the FIA.

By the way, are there any pictures on-line that show what they are talking about?

Sure - but when they do dodgy things it is considered innovation (such as DAS, which never should have been allowed imo).

Here's a video I found of the wing from Spain: https://streamable.com/6xb9xv (mods: not sure if this is allowed - please feel free to remove if not)

How was DAS cheating when they ran it through the stewards before using it?

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:04 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:00 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:55 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:52 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:47 pm

Racing point saga last year is one example. The illegal tyre test is another.

The first you seem to be making up only Aston Martin came under investigation, the second they got penalised for, the person responsible for that Ross Brawn, ex Ferrari, left the team at the end of that year.

Everyone knows Ross Brawn worked for Ferrari at some point - how is that relevant here? Do you write this after James Allison's name as well? What about Toto Wolff, ex Williams? Or Lewis Hamilton, ex McLaren?

It's just interesting who was actually responsible for it and you said that Mercedes got away with it, which they didn't.

Are you so defensive about them solely because Hamilton drives for them? Even though Schumacher and Ross Brawn, ex Ferrari, built the team up?

Why do you seem fit to attack them?

Last year when DAS was discovered & banned from this year, FIA did allow Mercedes to keep using DAS for the rest of the '20 season as a freepass.

UnlikeUday wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:09 pm

Last year when DAS was discovered & banned from this year, FIA did allow Mercedes to keep using DAS for the rest of the '20 season as a freepass.

They left it because the regs basically didn't seem able to find it illegal It was something that they simply couldn't overrule with the current regs. So, in order to not start a mass spending spree on DAS system, they banned it for this year with new regs. Simple.

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:06 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:04 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:00 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:55 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:52 pm

The first you seem to be making up only Aston Martin came under investigation, the second they got penalised for, the person responsible for that Ross Brawn, ex Ferrari, left the team at the end of that year.

Everyone knows Ross Brawn worked for Ferrari at some point - how is that relevant here? Do you write this after James Allison's name as well? What about Toto Wolff, ex Williams? Or Lewis Hamilton, ex McLaren?

It's just interesting who was actually responsible for it and you said that Mercedes got away with it, which they didn't.

Are you so defensive about them solely because Hamilton drives for them? Even though Schumacher and Ross Brawn, ex Ferrari, built the team up?

Why do you seem fit to attack them?

Asking legitimate questions is not the same as attacking.

Why are you so defensive about them that you dismiss the questions outright even though Schumacher and Ross Brawn, ex Ferrari, built the team up?

Asphalt_World wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:11 pm

UnlikeUday wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:09 pm

Last year when DAS was discovered & banned from this year, FIA did allow Mercedes to keep using DAS for the rest of the '20 season as a freepass.

They left it because the regs basically didn't seem able to find it illegal It was something that they simply couldn't overrule with the current regs. So, in order to not start a mass spending spree on DAS system, they banned it for this year with new regs. Simple.

Is it though? The money was a smokescreen - if it is illegal, then why give one team a free pass for a year?

Same thing with Merc supplying parts to RP - if it is illegal, how does it make sense that they continue to use it every race?

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:03 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:55 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:52 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:47 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:45 pm

What cheating did they get away with?

Racing point saga last year is one example. The illegal tyre test is another.

The first you seem to be making up only Aston Martin came under investigation, the second they got penalised for, the person responsible for that Ross Brawn, ex Ferrari, left the team at the end of that year.

Merc didn't even come under investigation for this - the plot thickens!

Maybe because they had nothing to answer for, it's good we no longer have kangaroo courts.

But they did - and I'm not the only one who thinks that: https://www.news.com.au/sport/motorspor ... 679241664a

https://au.sports.yahoo.com/formula-one ... 19229.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formu ... Point.html (sorry for the Daily Fail link)

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:13 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:05 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:03 pm

Asphalt_World wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:56 pm

If it is Mercedes that have noticed dodgy things. then good on them for bringing it up with the FIA.

By the way, are there any pictures on-line that show what they are talking about?

Sure - but when they do dodgy things it is considered innovation (such as DAS, which never should have been allowed imo).

Here's a video I found of the wing from Spain: https://streamable.com/6xb9xv (mods: not sure if this is allowed - please feel free to remove if not)

How was DAS cheating when they ran it through the stewards before using it?

How are the wings illegal if they pass all the tests? Your logic (I'm being kind in using this word) is circular.

DAS was not illegal because it conformed to the rules. It's not allowed this year because the rules were updated to prohibit it.

And someone with your eye for the details should appreciate that the rules are not defined by the tests put in place to check compliance with them. The wings pass the flex tests, but the flex tests are not the rules. Passing the flex test does not make a wing 'legal', but failing it makes it illegal.

Edited to to fix typo

UnlikeUday wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:09 pm

Last year when DAS was discovered & banned from this year, FIA did allow Mercedes to keep using DAS for the rest of the '20 season as a freepass.

It wasn't discovered Mercedes passed it through the stewards before using it.

Alienturnedhuman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:33 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:13 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:05 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:03 pm

Asphalt_World wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:56 pm

If it is Mercedes that have noticed dodgy things. then good on them for bringing it up with the FIA.

By the way, are there any pictures on-line that show what they are talking about?

Sure - but when they do dodgy things it is considered innovation (such as DAS, which never should have been allowed imo).

Here's a video I found of the wing from Spain: https://streamable.com/6xb9xv (mods: not sure if this is allowed - please feel free to remove if not)

How was DAS cheating when they ran it through the stewards before using it?

How are the wings illegal if they pass all the tests? Your logic (I'm being kind in using this word) is circular.

DAS was not illegal because it conformed to the rules. It's not allowed this year because the rules were updated to prohibit it.

And someone with your eye for the details should appreciate that the rules are not defined by the tests put in place to check compliance with them. The wings pass the flex tests, but the flex tests are not the rules. Passing the flex test does not make a wing 'legal', but failing it makes it legal.

I assume you meant "illegal"?

DAS conformed to the interpretation of the rules from the FIA (which imo favoured Merc) - there is a clear counter-argument against it, and as always a lot of things are left to speculation when it comes to the FIA. Suspension response can only be through load and not through driver input, as stated here: https://the-race.com/formula-1/is-das-l ... arguments/

In the end it boils down to whether the car (a) conforms to the rules as they are written, and (b) passes tests in place to check conformity. The poster argued DAS cannot be illegal because they ran it through the stewards - that unfortunately is not the gold standard when it comes to legality. The RP car was clearly illegal, and yet somehow both they and Merc escaped without any real sanctions.

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:12 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:06 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:04 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:00 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:55 pm

Everyone knows Ross Brawn worked for Ferrari at some point - how is that relevant here? Do you write this after James Allison's name as well? What about Toto Wolff, ex Williams? Or Lewis Hamilton, ex McLaren?

It's just interesting who was actually responsible for it and you said that Mercedes got away with it, which they didn't.

Are you so defensive about them solely because Hamilton drives for them? Even though Schumacher and Ross Brawn, ex Ferrari, built the team up?

Why do you seem fit to attack them?

Asking legitimate questions is not the same as attacking.

Why are you so defensive about them that you dismiss the questions outright even though Schumacher and Ross Brawn, ex Ferrari, built the team up?

Calling them the MAFIA among suggestions of favouritism?

Also it just happens to be the team of the drivers you constantly criticise.

Option or Prime wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:38 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:13 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:05 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:03 pm

Asphalt_World wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:56 pm

If it is Mercedes that have noticed dodgy things. then good on them for bringing it up with the FIA.

By the way, are there any pictures on-line that show what they are talking about?

Sure - but when they do dodgy things it is considered innovation (such as DAS, which never should have been allowed imo).

Here's a video I found of the wing from Spain: https://streamable.com/6xb9xv (mods: not sure if this is allowed - please feel free to remove if not)

How was DAS cheating when they ran it through the stewards before using it?

How are the wings illegal if they pass all the tests? Your logic (I'm being kind in using this word) is circular.

Its all explained in the article. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/57086036 Not sure why you seem so angry about this, its an FIA crackdown.
No team was mentioned so how do we know its not an issue other teams are guilty of.

FIA "crackdown" at the behest of Mercedes - like puppets dancing to Wolff's tunes.

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:46 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:12 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:06 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:04 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:00 pm

It's just interesting who was actually responsible for it and you said that Mercedes got away with it, which they didn't.

Are you so defensive about them solely because Hamilton drives for them? Even though Schumacher and Ross Brawn, ex Ferrari, built the team up?

Why do you seem fit to attack them?

Asking legitimate questions is not the same as attacking.

Why are you so defensive about them that you dismiss the questions outright even though Schumacher and Ross Brawn, ex Ferrari, built the team up?

Calling them the MAFIA among suggestions of favouritism?

Also it just happens to be the team of the drivers you constantly criticise.

It's a conspiracy thread - lighten up, will ya?

I didn't come up with the MaFIA acronym in case you're wondering.

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:52 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:13 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:05 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:03 pm

Asphalt_World wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:56 pm

If it is Mercedes that have noticed dodgy things. then good on them for bringing it up with the FIA.

By the way, are there any pictures on-line that show what they are talking about?

Sure - but when they do dodgy things it is considered innovation (such as DAS, which never should have been allowed imo).

Here's a video I found of the wing from Spain: https://streamable.com/6xb9xv (mods: not sure if this is allowed - please feel free to remove if not)

How was DAS cheating when they ran it through the stewards before using it?

How are the wings illegal if they pass all the tests? Your logic (I'm being kind in using this word) is circular.

They passed the load tests so they were deemed legal, however it's not the first time such things have been designed to pass a load test only to run in an illegal manner on the track, as in visible flexing beyond what is considered normal.

The stewards will merely revisit how they test the wings, which might be as simple as sticking more load on, maybe loading it in different places.

They wouldn't do that unless they themselves were unhappy with what they were seeing out on track

I'm not arguing whether the flexi-wings are legal or not - I am wondering why the FIA acts like they are the Merc B-team at times. How did their stewards accept the argument that DAS is part of the steering system when it clearly was not used or required for steering the car? Seems like their interpretation of rules depends on who is breaking them.

I suppose this all makes a change from spending year after year of hearing that the FIA stands for Ferrari International Assistance.

Let's give Merc a bash for a change!

I think there's a touch of confirmation bias going on here; I'm sure there are plenty of counter examples that could be cited. This year's aero reg changes for instance, that suited Red Bull's aero concept and hindered Mercedes.

j man wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 5:17 pm

I think there's a touch of confirmation bias going on here; I'm sure there are plenty of counter examples that could be cited. This year's aero reg changes for instance, that suited Red Bull's aero concept and hindered Mercedes.

Hey, stop spoiling a good conspiracy theory!

j man wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 5:17 pm

I think there's a touch of confirmation bias going on here; I'm sure there are plenty of counter examples that could be cited. This year's aero reg changes for instance, that suited Red Bull's aero concept and hindered Mercedes.

But they were brought about at Pirelli's behest, and ALL the teams agreed to it. It wasn't a witch-hunt instigated on behalf of one team, like the other examples are.

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:20 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:03 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:55 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:52 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 3:47 pm

Racing point saga last year is one example. The illegal tyre test is another.

The first you seem to be making up only Aston Martin came under investigation, the second they got penalised for, the person responsible for that Ross Brawn, ex Ferrari, left the team at the end of that year.

Merc didn't even come under investigation for this - the plot thickens!

Maybe because they had nothing to answer for, it's good we no longer have kangaroo courts.

But they did - and I'm not the only one who thinks that: https://www.news.com.au/sport/motorspor ... 679241664a

https://au.sports.yahoo.com/formula-one ... 19229.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formu ... Point.html (sorry for the Daily Fail link)

Yeah It's unfortunate you bring forward a source you previously would deem as being a joke and not proof of anything, a source I wouldn't be able to use.

Mercedes were quite happy to take anyone to court over the matter and like I say we no longer have kangaroo courts, there needs be a level of proof beyond allegations.

Going further than that if Mercedes were found guilty how exactly would what they did have helped the Mercedes team/car anyway?

Mercedes political power was evident after the illegal 2013 tyre test where Hamilton and Rosberg pulled a Stig. They should have really been excluded from the WCC but Mercedes threatened to walk away and the FIA hadn't explicitly forbid the use of the W04.

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:47 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:46 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:12 pm

pokerman wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:06 pm

A.J. wrote: ↑

Wed May 12, 2021 4:04 pm

Are you so defensive about them solely because Hamilton drives for them? Even though Schumacher and Ross Brawn, ex Ferrari, built the team up?

Why do you seem fit to attack them?

Asking legitimate questions is not the same as attacking.

Why are you so defensive about them that you dismiss the questions outright even though Schumacher and Ross Brawn, ex Ferrari, built the team up?

Calling them the MAFIA among suggestions of favouritism?

Also it just happens to be the team of the drivers you constantly criticise.

It's a conspiracy thread - lighten up, will ya?

I didn't come up with the MaFIA acronym in case you're wondering.

I think we both know the game.