The Race as One Initiative

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myattitude
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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by myattitude »

Rockie wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 5:16 pm
myattitude wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 4:55 pm
Rockie wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 4:36 pm
myattitude wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 4:30 pm
The no politics in sport philosophy has been well and truly overthrown by this globalist Harpist coup and not just in F1 but football and just wait for the Olympics.

The reason this is particularly unopposed so far is because the Chicism is clothed in words like equality and other buzzwords the sheep fall for, and anti-Grouchos don't accept that.

The reason this should be removed from F1 are two-layered:

1) People may not agree this movement has equality as it's intention, or may think we're equal enough, or may think it is unequal in favour of BLM style politics.

2) We're now arguing about the politics of the initiative, with people saying it's Harpist and others like some on this thread saying those who oppose it are bad people, which has shattered "no politics in sport."

So how about this, Messrs "We race as one"... NO POLITICS IN SPORT AND TAKE YOUR DIVISIVE Harpist POISON AWAY FROM HERE.
Racism has never been and would never be politics.

You have put together above a ridiculous word salad that has to place outside of fringe, deranged and conspiracy news outlets.

You have got no idea what Chicism is, which actually makes it sad to read this drivel.
Question: Do you know what your post is compared to mine?

Answer: A difference in political opinion.

Better you talk about what qualifies as racism in your opinion on political platforms instead of let the infiltrated FIA divide us sports fans with this poisonous initiative. Can you now start to see where breaking the no politics in sport rule leads from our exchange alone? It leads nowhere good.
I don't have a difference of political opinion with you, I have no business with politics.

You have come on here to regurgitate right wing talking points with no thought of your own which needs to be pointed out for the nonsense it is.

If you see equality or equity as political, you have a lot to learn about life in general.
Actually that post sounded very much like a political narrative. One along the lines of 'This is so correct that it's not even politics'. Oh yes it was politics, very debatable politics. Let us know when you notice the breaking of the no politics in sport rule by this initiative is causing divisions, then we can tell the FIA to stop.

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myattitude
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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by myattitude »

F1Tyrant wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 5:21 pm
myattitude wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 5:07 pm
You've already equated me with Nazism (I'm Asian and supposedly oppressed by pseudo-Nazis according to our Harpist overlords), I've denounced the movement as Chicism, and it's all going down a very toxic rabbit hole, isn't it?
I've pointed out you used a rhetorical device used by Nazis to persecute Jews. It's a silly narrative to push and repeating it doesn't make you a Nazi either.

Unless your an ethnic minority, Asian peoples are perfectly capable of persecuting minority groups.
I know what you pointed out, I'm saying that what you pointed out demonstrates why politics should be kept out of sport lest it cause divisions and people spuriously get compared with Nazis when we should really be talking about why Michael Schumacher is better than Lewis Hamilton.

Yes I am an ethnic minority. No I'm not oppressed. People like me who think they're oppressed, are silly. And the We Race As One initiative is divisive communist propaganda which should be banned. Yes I would say the same if a neocon initiative was being pushed.

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Alienturnedhuman
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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

I do find it a little odd that a 2 minute period prior to the race, consisting of a video and a moment for drivers to express themselves manages to provoke so much outrage. What exactly is this taking away from those getting so angry by it? If you don't care about it, you can use that time to make a coffee, get a beer or go to the toilet.

If anything, the fact that people are getting so angry about it and feel such a need to complain about it only further demonstrates the need for it.

Racism in sport is an issue, racism across the globe is an issue - painting it as being 'political' is just a way to try and dodge the criticism (and at the same time, using that argument admits that it is a problem)

It's then equally strange that when actual politics does happen in the sport, such as Putin handing out the winner's trophy - the cries of 'no politics in F1' being a red line are far less loud, if they have any volume at all.

Even if F1 is the least racist sport, it is an irrelevant point, it's effectively the same as bragging about being the person who pooped the bed the least.

If the sport said "We Race as One" meant they were going to give double points to minority drivers, or allow them a 30 second head start - then it's affecting the race and the sport.

As for the talk of "diversity campaigns" being racist against white people, there definitely appears to be some wild misunderstanding of what this involves. It's not about forgoing the hiring less able minority people at the expense of more able, or equally able white people, or about fulfilling quotas. It's about looking into the reasons why people from minority backgrounds are less likely to go into STEM fields and why the minority people who do go into those fields are less likely to go into F1. Toto Wolff mentioned in an interview how many minority graduates who are top in their fields do not even consider F1 but they would be very valuable in the sport.

If they don't want to do it, then that's fine - but if it's that they don't think F1 is a viable organisation for them to have a career path because of their ethnicity, then that is something that needs to be addressed. And there is more motivation for that to change on the part of the team owner than the other way around. They want to get the best people available, and if the best people available don't think F1 is possible for them - then the teams are the ones losing out.

It has been proven that people with non Western sounding names are far less likely to get called for a job interview, even if their CV is identical to someone with a Western name. So this is a recognised problem that exists in the real world. Formula 1 is visibly a very white sport - even if the diversity has been increasing - and it was as recently as 2008 that we had people turning up in blackface to ridicule Hamilton, it is a sport that has had only one black driver and non Western drivers are rare despite there being a lot of money from Asian sponsors - so it would not surprise me if people who were not of that profile would feel they would not be as welcome.

If they are welcome, you don't prove they are welcome by shouting down any suggestion that they are not welcome, or getting angry that the organisers are doing a campaign for equality.

wire2004
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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by wire2004 »

The thing is. It's a very small minority of people who have the views on the contrary to that of someone who believes in equality.

The thing is. The sport has always been inclusive to any person. Regardless of gender. Race sexual reference or creed.

It's when we start pushing it down our faces which has come from the crux of the blm movement. Which itself has become a political movement and political statement.

People go on about racism this. Racism that.
Here in the uk. Since the blm movement. We have had so much cancel culture. Its stemmed from the blm movement. Which in itself is the reason why we have the we race as one movement. But to lose the identity of slapstick comedy. That you can not take the p!$$ out of someone as is the british way. Or they will call out cancel culture. Takes the identity out of a country and what used to be great about this great country. Everyone enjoying whatever irrespective of what gentler. Race. Creed or anything. Now you can end up in jail for the same thing.

Here is a point.
Is it racist for me to say the n word on here. Genuine question.

If it is. Ok for me to use that word. What's the point in all this we tace as one movement
If it's not ok for me to use it. Why??? Because it's still ok for a black person to say it to his friend on a youtube video that is up on youtube now.
I find that the most racist people are the black people not all of them. But the majority. This comes from seeing the youtube video of 2 black people saying that word repeatedly. Or whenever something happens. For example the Manchester united protests. A black footballer basically went. I agree why we are protesting. But we should also do this this and this to combat racism. It becomes a point when the black people are the racist people because they will bring it up themselves whenever any opportunity presents itself.

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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by mikeyg123 »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 6:21 pm
I do find it a little odd that a 2 minute period prior to the race, consisting of a video and a moment for drivers to express themselves manages to provoke so much outrage. What exactly is this taking away from those getting so angry by it? If you don't care about it, you can use that time to make a coffee, get a beer or go to the toilet.

If anything, the fact that people are getting so angry about it and feel such a need to complain about it only further demonstrates the need for it.

Racism in sport is an issue, racism across the globe is an issue - painting it as being 'political' is just a way to try and dodge the criticism (and at the same time, using that argument admits that it is a problem)

It's then equally strange that when actual politics does happen in the sport, such as Putin handing out the winner's trophy - the cries of 'no politics in F1' being a red line are far less loud, if they have any volume at all.

Even if F1 is the least racist sport, it is an irrelevant point, it's effectively the same as bragging about being the person who pooped the bed the least.

If the sport said "We Race as One" meant they were going to give double points to minority drivers, or allow them a 30 second head start - then it's affecting the race and the sport.

As for the talk of "diversity campaigns" being racist against white people, there definitely appears to be some wild misunderstanding of what this involves. It's not about forgoing the hiring less able minority people at the expense of more able, or equally able white people, or about fulfilling quotas. It's about looking into the reasons why people from minority backgrounds are less likely to go into STEM fields and why the minority people who do go into those fields are less likely to go into F1. Toto Wolff mentioned in an interview how many minority graduates who are top in their fields do not even consider F1 but they would be very valuable in the sport.

If they don't want to do it, then that's fine - but if it's that they don't think F1 is a viable organisation for them to have a career path because of their ethnicity, then that is something that needs to be addressed. And there is more motivation for that to change on the part of the team owner than the other way around. They want to get the best people available, and if the best people available don't think F1 is possible for them - then the teams are the ones losing out.

It has been proven that people with non Western sounding names are far less likely to get called for a job interview, even if their CV is identical to someone with a Western name. So this is a recognised problem that exists in the real world. Formula 1 is visibly a very white sport - even if the diversity has been increasing - and it was as recently as 2008 that we had people turning up in blackface to ridicule Hamilton, it is a sport that has had only one black driver and non Western drivers are rare despite there being a lot of money from Asian sponsors - so it would not surprise me if people who were not of that profile would feel they would not be as welcome.

If they are welcome, you don't prove they are welcome by shouting down any suggestion that they are not welcome, or getting angry that the organisers are doing a campaign for equality.
I'm not sure many people are "outraged".... just annoyed by hypocrisy. It's that kind of exaggeration that pushes two sides, that are actually very close in their believes further away from each other.

Almost everyone thinks basically the same thing regarding the destination. We just have different ideas on the journey.

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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by PF1 Mod Team »

wire2004 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 6:27 pm
Is it racist for me to say the n word on here. Genuine question.

If it is. Ok for me to use that word. What's the point in all this we tace as one movement
If it's not ok for me to use it. Why??? Because it's still ok for a black person to say it to his friend on a youtube video that is up on youtube now.
I do not know what you are trying to achieve with this point, but no one is allowed to say that on this forum, and we are not the moderation team of YouTube.

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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by wire2004 »

PF1 Mod Team wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 6:37 pm
wire2004 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 6:27 pm
Is it racist for me to say the n word on here. Genuine question.

If it is. Ok for me to use that word. What's the point in all this we tace as one movement
If it's not ok for me to use it. Why??? Because it's still ok for a black person to say it to his friend on a youtube video that is up on youtube now.
I do not know what you are trying to achieve with this point, but no one is allowed to say that on this forum, and we are not the moderation team of YouTube.
The point I'm making on this point. If I went out and said it on camera and posted it on youtube in the right context. The video would be banned and there would be outrage
I cant say that the same would be true for a black man who said it because then that same person would call out racism for him not being allowed to say that word. Atleast in my view

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F1Tyrant
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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by F1Tyrant »

wire2004 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 6:27 pm
It's a very small minority of people who have the views on the contrary to that of someone who believes in equality.
People don't realise that meritocracy means this for many people:
Image
Source

We don't live in a vacuum where the political decision made by our historical forebears haven't has some impact. It's about recognising that and compensating people for the injustices done to them.

I'm probably wasting my breath. Meh.
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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

The main thing I dislike about this just before the race is that many of the drivers messages just feel awkward and staged. Not all of them think about this to the same extent as others, as shown by some not taking a knee. And Verstappen has previously shown with his language describing drivers that makes what he says in this message feel even more staged.

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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by Jezza13 »

F1Tyrant wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 6:52 pm
We don't live in a vacuum where the political decision made by our historical forebears haven't has some impact. It's about recognising that and compensating people for the injustices done to them.

I'm probably wasting my breath. Meh.
Interested to hear your ideas on how this should work.
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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by JN23 »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 6:21 pm
I do find it a little odd that a 2 minute period prior to the race, consisting of a video and a moment for drivers to express themselves manages to provoke so much outrage. What exactly is this taking away from those getting so angry by it? If you don't care about it, you can use that time to make a coffee, get a beer or go to the toilet.

If anything, the fact that people are getting so angry about it and feel such a need to complain about it only further demonstrates the need for it.

Racism in sport is an issue, racism across the globe is an issue - painting it as being 'political' is just a way to try and dodge the criticism (and at the same time, using that argument admits that it is a problem)

It's then equally strange that when actual politics does happen in the sport, such as Putin handing out the winner's trophy - the cries of 'no politics in F1' being a red line are far less loud, if they have any volume at all.

Even if F1 is the least racist sport, it is an irrelevant point, it's effectively the same as bragging about being the person who pooped the bed the least.

If the sport said "We Race as One" meant they were going to give double points to minority drivers, or allow them a 30 second head start - then it's affecting the race and the sport.

As for the talk of "diversity campaigns" being racist against white people, there definitely appears to be some wild misunderstanding of what this involves. It's not about forgoing the hiring less able minority people at the expense of more able, or equally able white people, or about fulfilling quotas. It's about looking into the reasons why people from minority backgrounds are less likely to go into STEM fields and why the minority people who do go into those fields are less likely to go into F1. Toto Wolff mentioned in an interview how many minority graduates who are top in their fields do not even consider F1 but they would be very valuable in the sport.

If they don't want to do it, then that's fine - but if it's that they don't think F1 is a viable organisation for them to have a career path because of their ethnicity, then that is something that needs to be addressed. And there is more motivation for that to change on the part of the team owner than the other way around. They want to get the best people available, and if the best people available don't think F1 is possible for them - then the teams are the ones losing out.

It has been proven that people with non Western sounding names are far less likely to get called for a job interview, even if their CV is identical to someone with a Western name. So this is a recognised problem that exists in the real world. Formula 1 is visibly a very white sport - even if the diversity has been increasing - and it was as recently as 2008 that we had people turning up in blackface to ridicule Hamilton, it is a sport that has had only one black driver and non Western drivers are rare despite there being a lot of money from Asian sponsors - so it would not surprise me if people who were not of that profile would feel they would not be as welcome.

If they are welcome, you don't prove they are welcome by shouting down any suggestion that they are not welcome, or getting angry that the organisers are doing a campaign for equality.
Really good post which sum up my thoughts in a lot more coherent way than I could ever hope to :thumbup:

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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by myattitude »

F1Tyrant wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 6:52 pm
wire2004 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 6:27 pm
It's a very small minority of people who have the views on the contrary to that of someone who believes in equality.
People don't realise that meritocracy means this for many people:
Image
Source

We don't live in a vacuum where the political decision made by our historical forebears haven't has some impact. It's about recognising that and compensating people for the injustices done to them.

I'm probably wasting my breath. Meh.
That meme is the sort of nonsense that has split the UK so badly, and precisely why the biased narrative the FIA are pushing should be stopped, because many people disagree with it and F1 is a much less divisive place when you keep politics out of sport. The divisions are visible when some drivers kneel and others don't. Why cause political divisions? Why push a narrative that many disagree with? Keep this poison out of sport.

Has anyone noticed how protected Kimi is from all this? He barely features in those videos (not even a word, just a face shot) and doesn't kneel, he probably thinks it's complete rubbish and must have given very poor footage for the FIA to use him hardly at all.

FIA have largely gotten away with this while fans were banned from the tracks. Let's see if fans boo this in places like Russia and maybe Brazil too.
Last edited by myattitude on Sun May 09, 2021 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wire2004
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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by wire2004 »

myattitude wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 7:13 pm
F1Tyrant wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 6:52 pm
wire2004 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 6:27 pm
It's a very small minority of people who have the views on the contrary to that of someone who believes in equality.
People don't realise that meritocracy means this for many people:
Image
Source

We don't live in a vacuum where the political decision made by our historical forebears haven't has some impact. It's about recognising that and compensating people for the injustices done to them.

I'm probably wasting my breath. Meh.
That meme is the sort of nonsense that has split the UK so badly, and precisely why the biased narrative the FIA are pushing should be stopped, because many people disagree with it and F1 is a much less divisive place when you keep politics out of sport. The divisions are visible when some people kneel and others don't. Why cause political divisions? Why push a narrative that many disagree with. Keep this poison out of sport.

Has anyone noticed how protected Kimi is from all this? He barely features in those videos (not even a word, just a face shot) and doesn't kneel, he probably it's complete rubbish and must have given very poor footage for the FIA to use him hardly at all.

FIA have largely gotten away with this while fans were banned from the tracks. Let's see if fans boo this in places like Russia and maybe Brazil too.
And usa and maybe also Silverstone as well.

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myattitude
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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by myattitude »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 6:21 pm
I do find it a little odd that a 2 minute period prior to the race, consisting of a video and a moment for drivers to express themselves manages to provoke so much outrage. What exactly is this taking away from those getting so angry by it? If you don't care about it, you can use that time to make a coffee, get a beer or go to the toilet.

If anything, the fact that people are getting so angry about it and feel such a need to complain about it only further demonstrates the need for it.

Racism in sport is an issue, racism across the globe is an issue - painting it as being 'political' is just a way to try and dodge the criticism (and at the same time, using that argument admits that it is a problem)
'We must keep pushing our propaganda as long as there are people who disagree with us.'

How about just keep partisan politics out of sport and stop dividing people? You can do these demos at Parliament Square if you want.

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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by F1Tyrant »

Jezza13 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 7:10 pm
Interested to hear your ideas on how this should work.
For me it's investing heavily in education, healthcare, housing and welfare in historically marginalised areas. It would help everyone but would disproportionately help ethnic minorities compared to a national scheme.

For me, I don't care about creating a few lazy freeloaders, it's about their kids getting the best possible opportunities even if it takes decades for the majority to actually take them.

We'd pay for it with a small rise in income tax on the top 20% of earners, a dividend tax and a turnover tax to go after the corporations.
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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by F1Tyrant »

It's getting rather easy to tell who the Millenials and Gen Z in this thread are.
myattitude wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 7:13 pm
FIA have largely gotten away with this while fans were banned from the tracks. Let's see if fans boo this in places like Russia and maybe Brazil too.
I love how you name countries that have massive problems with racism and have rampant social conservatives going after gay people.
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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by myattitude »

F1Tyrant wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 7:36 pm
It's getting rather easy to tell who the Millenials and Gen Z in this thread are.
myattitude wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 7:13 pm
FIA have largely gotten away with this while fans were banned from the tracks. Let's see if fans boo this in places like Russia and maybe Brazil too.
I love how you name countries that have massive problems with racism and have rampant social conservatives going after gay people.
That statement entirely depends on your personal definition of racism though, doesn't it? And having racism problems doesn't make them wrong about WRA1 or BLM style politics. I take it your view of racism doesn't include tarring an indigenous population as privileged while they get barred in their own ancestral homeland from applying for jobs you and me are allowed to apply for? That's racism too.

You must understand that your view is just that, your view. The fact it agrees with the WRA1 initiative just means your views aligns with theirs and discounts the views of those who don't align. Saying "we want equality" is a buzz statement, not an argument.

Keep.Politics.Out.Of.Sport
Last edited by myattitude on Sun May 09, 2021 8:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by F1Tyrant »

myattitude wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 7:54 pm
I take it your view of racism doesn't include tarring an indigenous population as privileged while they get barred from applying for jobs you and me are allowed to apply for? That's racism too.
Christ above! We agree.

Sadly, this sort of strawman isn't seriously proposed by people who think about this seriously.
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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by j man »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 7:06 pm
The main thing I dislike about this just before the race is that many of the drivers messages just feel awkward and staged. Not all of them think about this to the same extent as others, as shown by some not taking a knee. And Verstappen has previously shown with his language describing drivers that makes what he says in this message feel even more staged.
Yes to me it's just a series of empty, vacuous clichés. The sort of tiresome preaching we get so regularly from prominent public figures these days that I've become accustomed to ignoring. I would take more interest if they better articulated the precise problem they want to solve and how they propose to go about doing it. Simply "opposing racism" is something that 99.99% of the population agrees with anyway, it's hardly a groundbreaking moral stance.

I'm actually starting to warm to Verstappen these days because of his lack of interest in cultivating a public image. He cares only about driving, and winning, and that is refreshingly rare in today's celebrity culture.

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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by myattitude »

F1Tyrant wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 8:04 pm
myattitude wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 7:54 pm
I take it your view of racism doesn't include tarring an indigenous population as privileged while they get barred from applying for jobs you and me are allowed to apply for? That's racism too.
Christ above! We agree.

Sadly, this sort of strawman isn't seriously proposed by people who think about this seriously.
It's literally happening all the time. The BBC openly advertise for non-native applicants for various positions. And you know where else it happens? In Formula One! Look at their YouTube channel and new 'diversity' pundits suddenly sprung up last year in the wake of WRA1 out of nowhere.

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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by PF1 Mod Team »

This topic is going to strongly divide opinion, and we spun it off into its own thread to allow the discussion to take place.

That being said, if the discussion becomes circular, or starts to become unhinged or unsubstaniated, it will get locked.

Also, if anyone is going to start making bold claims, they should be able to back it up with evidence and reliable sources.

Finally - while it is recognised this is a divisive topic, the forum rules still apply. Anyone attempting to play fast and loose with them just because of the subject matter, will be afforded no excuses.

wire2004
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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by wire2004 »

myattitude wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 8:08 pm
F1Tyrant wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 8:04 pm
myattitude wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 7:54 pm
I take it your view of racism doesn't include tarring an indigenous population as privileged while they get barred from applying for jobs you and me are allowed to apply for? That's racism too.
Christ above! We agree.

Sadly, this sort of strawman isn't seriously proposed by people who think about this seriously.
It's literally happening all the time. The BBC openly advertise for non-native applicants for various positions. And you know where else it happens? In Formula One! Look at their YouTube channel and new 'diversity' pundits suddenly sprung up last year in the wake of WRA1 out of nowhere.
Which brings me back to my point that we should be hiring the right people for the right roles. And not box ticking certain diversities such as women quotas or black people quotas. Which is what the bbc have and are blatantly doing when taking on applicants.

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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by Banana Man »

Rockie wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 5:20 pm
Banana Man wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 4:58 pm
Rockie wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 4:48 pm
Banana Man wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 4:35 pm
F1Tyrant wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 2:58 pm


The times have moved on a bit, Jezza. The ideal of colour-blind being anti-racist is done. The newer initiatives want racial discrimination taken into account because ethnicity was tied to nationality for so long. History has been a trauma conga for any country that isn't a technologically advanced, imperialist country.

The legacy of those horrific atrocities need to be recognised if we are ever going to create a world where people reach their fullest potential.
They’ve been recognised. There’s barely anyone alive who would deny the North Atlantic slave trade was bad for black people. I don’t know what more people expect in that regard.

I don’t have the experience working with children that asphalt has but what I’m seeing a lot of is reinforcing negative stereotypes. The message to younger black children almost seems to be that you can’t succeed because the world is against you. There aren’t more black drivers because of their colour, black people cant succeed because of some statues, the world is biased against you because of a centuries old slave trade. These are negative inferences which need to be discarded, not dwelled upon.

At the risk of going Godwin’s law, there’s no animosity between Brits and Germans over a brutal conflict which happened far more recently. We forgive, we move on, we don’t talk about it and the world much the better for that.
Good lord where does one start with this?

Imagine thinking fighting the Nazi was a british thing, the ignorance is shocking.

In 2020 a policeman knelt on a mans neck even after him being in handcuffs and remained on his neck for 2mins 44secs after he had passed away that it was the paramedics that told him to get up.

It is still legal to lynch a black person in America as of today.

In Georgia a man black man jogging was hunted like an animal and killed the killers were not arrested until there was a protest.

Underfunding of black communities, Tulsa Oklahoma where the black wall street as it was dubbed was burnt down whilst the police stood back.

They need to keep banging on this to educate people like you as to avoid this kind of mentality passing on to the next generation.
Exactly the kind of needless, sanctimonious faux-outrage which prevents any kind of meaningful dialogue and progress on these issues. Too many people want nothing more to be seen as righteous and talk down to others.
I have listed instances of the struggle of black people above, not one did you address out of it.

But the one that has a culture war response you latched onto it, not surprised.
Your response was tiresome, needlessly rude and you’ve made what I suspect is a deliberate attempt to misunderstand my arguments and portray them negatively.

Your examples include a murder, where even the prosecution have said there was no evidence that race played a part and the perpetrator was not charged with any hate crime. A law which is clearly false, you can’t legally lynch a black person in America. If that is written down anywhere it’s clearly a quirky loophole and if you tried it you’d still be sent to jail for a whole bunch of other laws. You’ve also, strangely, brought up an atrocity from literally a century ago.

Yes, there is racism in the world. No you can’t solve it with T-shirts, gestures or slogans. That only raises awareness of the concept of racism, which everyone is abundantly aware of. It’s not a solution to anything.

You can tell me to ‘educate myself’ all you like. I hear it a lot from conspiracy theorists when they really mean, ‘go and read these specific sources by these specific individuals who happen to align with my view.’

I won’t ask you to do that, I’ll simply say that people like Morgan Freeman share some of my views on the subject.
https://youtu.be/GeixtYS-P3s

If you want to know my solution, look into a guy called Daryl Davis and how he supposedly converted over 200 KKK members.
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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by Tufty »

I'd just like to apologise to the mod team for starting this. If I'd realised how much work it would create I'd have just deleted my post.
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myattitude
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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by myattitude »

Banana Man wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 8:38 pm
Rockie wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 5:20 pm
Banana Man wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 4:58 pm
Rockie wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 4:48 pm
Banana Man wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 4:35 pm


They’ve been recognised. There’s barely anyone alive who would deny the North Atlantic slave trade was bad for black people. I don’t know what more people expect in that regard.

I don’t have the experience working with children that asphalt has but what I’m seeing a lot of is reinforcing negative stereotypes. The message to younger black children almost seems to be that you can’t succeed because the world is against you. There aren’t more black drivers because of their colour, black people cant succeed because of some statues, the world is biased against you because of a centuries old slave trade. These are negative inferences which need to be discarded, not dwelled upon.

At the risk of going Godwin’s law, there’s no animosity between Brits and Germans over a brutal conflict which happened far more recently. We forgive, we move on, we don’t talk about it and the world much the better for that.
Good lord where does one start with this?

Imagine thinking fighting the Nazi was a british thing, the ignorance is shocking.

In 2020 a policeman knelt on a mans neck even after him being in handcuffs and remained on his neck for 2mins 44secs after he had passed away that it was the paramedics that told him to get up.

It is still legal to lynch a black person in America as of today.

In Georgia a man black man jogging was hunted like an animal and killed the killers were not arrested until there was a protest.

Underfunding of black communities, Tulsa Oklahoma where the black wall street as it was dubbed was burnt down whilst the police stood back.

They need to keep banging on this to educate people like you as to avoid this kind of mentality passing on to the next generation.
Exactly the kind of needless, sanctimonious faux-outrage which prevents any kind of meaningful dialogue and progress on these issues. Too many people want nothing more to be seen as righteous and talk down to others.
I have listed instances of the struggle of black people above, not one did you address out of it.

But the one that has a culture war response you latched onto it, not surprised.
Your response was tiresome, needlessly rude and you’ve made what I suspect is a deliberate attempt to misunderstand my arguments and portray them negatively.

Your examples include a murder, where even the prosecution have said there was no evidence that race played a part and the perpetrator was not charged with any hate crime. A law which is clearly false, you can’t legally lynch a black person in America. If that is written down anywhere it’s clearly a quirky loophole and if you tried it you’d still be sent to jail for a whole bunch of other laws. You’ve also, strangely, brought up an atrocity from literally a century ago.

Yes, there is racism in the world. No you can’t solve it with T-shirts, gestures or slogans. That only raises awareness of the concept of racism, which everyone is abundantly aware of. It’s not a solution to anything.

You can tell me to ‘educate myself’ all you like. I hear it a lot from conspiracy theorists when they really mean, ‘go and read these specific sources by these specific individuals who happen to align with my view.’

I won’t ask you to do that, I’ll simply say that people like Morgan Freeman share some of my views on the subject.
https://youtu.be/GeixtYS-P3s

If you want to know my solution, look into a guy called Daryl Davis and how he supposedly converted over 200 KKK members.
People need to heed Morgan's advice here. Although even he fell into full BLM mode on his Twitter last year.

WRA1 is politicising the sport and must be dumped. Whichever activist organisations got their claws into the FIA, FIFA and the IOC need to be turfed out and told they and their political campaigns are not welcome here. I warned immediately how divisive it is and this thread demonstrated just that.

Calling something racism doesn't make people who disagree, ignorant or in need of your enlightening.

Saying you want equality doesn't mean that is what WRA1 is really chasing for.

It is debatable if true equality is even a noble value to aspire for.

Such debates belong in politics not in sporting events where the event's presenters get to dictate the narrative and divides the drivers and fans who only come for the racing cars.

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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by wire2004 »

It's simple for me.
I dont tune in to see the wra1. A blm movement. Or anything decisive in the political world or in general life.

Yes. We can all get behind a minutes silence or something as equally apt. For example in indycar. The 4 by 4 salute that they gave to dan Weldon after his tragic passing.

But we watch the sport as a escape from normality. Whether it is watching warrington play in the rugby. (Yes. I'm equally as miffed with rugby leagues 13 second gesture that they do before matches this year) watching the football. Or watching formula 1. The support races, watching the aussie v8 supercars or watching the nascar as I am now. I watch these races to relax. Escape the stresses of not al life and to enjoy the wall to wall coverage of each sport that I watch. I dont want something that in formula 1s case, the fia or liberty. Or in rugby leagues case I have a feeling it has come from sky and the rfl. I dont want to see these political gestures or movements that they have. I just want to watch the sport and not have these gestures before each race.

If lewis Hamilton wants to make a difference. Maybe go into politics when he finnishes up in formula 1. Much like Carlos Ruttermann. Like ayrton senna was rumoured to be when he retired. Go into politics to make a difference that way.

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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by f1madman »

Just a couple of observations I find fascinating.
I generally find people that use the term Harpist don't know what it is.

Also I notice people who get personally annoyed about equality, equal opportunities and giving others a fair chance, have missed the point, or maybe the point is hitting too close to home.
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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by Exediron »

wire2004 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 10:07 pm
If lewis Hamilton wants to make a difference. Maybe go into politics when he finnishes up in formula 1. Much like Carlos Ruttermann. Like ayrton senna was rumoured to be when he retired. Go into politics to make a difference that way.
The problem with this idea is that it's clearly self-defeating. You want him to go into politics so you can ignore his message if you don't agree with it.... meaning that he is getting more exposure for his views now by airing them in a sporting context than he would if he went into politics.

I, as a citizen of the USA, would have no idea or reason to care about what Lewis Hamilton did as a politician in the UK. But because he's a global motorsport icon, I see what he does as a sportsman even when I have no connection to his home country. That's how sports has a reach beyond politics.
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oz_karter
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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by oz_karter »

wire2004 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 10:07 pm
It's simple for me.
I dont tune in to see the wra1. A blm movement. Or anything decisive in the political world or in general life.
I think the problem here is seeing it as a divisive political issue.

It absolutely isn't and shouldn't be. It's a social problem and a deeply wrong one.

There is no valid argument that racism, bigotry or discrimination is acceptable.

Those misconceptions, views and ideologies must be corrected. Idols and sports bodies communicating that racism and discrimination is wrong should not be a problem for you unless you have these views and are uncomfortable about them being challenged.

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myattitude
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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by myattitude »

f1madman wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 10:52 pm
Just a couple of observations I find fascinating.
I generally find people that use the term Harpist don't know what it is.

Also I notice people who get personally annoyed about equality, equal opportunities and giving others a fair chance, have missed the point, or maybe the point is hitting too close to home.
Chicism is not just an economic philosophy.

As explained earlier, "equality, equal opportunities and giving others a fair chance" are buzzterms, not arguments. The racist meme posted earlier in this thread was supposed to champion the qualities you listed, but instead seeks the opposite under the guise of equality.

If you disagree with my assessment, surely it's better just keep politics out of sport so we fans don't have to be divided? It worked well for decades.
Exediron wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 11:11 pm
wire2004 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 10:07 pm
If lewis Hamilton wants to make a difference. Maybe go into politics when he finnishes up in formula 1. Much like Carlos Ruttermann. Like ayrton senna was rumoured to be when he retired. Go into politics to make a difference that way.
The problem with this idea is that it's clearly self-defeating. You want him to go into politics so you can ignore his message if you don't agree with it.... meaning that he is getting more exposure for his views now by airing them in a sporting context than he would if he went into politics.

I, as a citizen of the USA, would have no idea or reason to care about what Lewis Hamilton did as a politician in the UK. But because he's a global motorsport icon, I see what he does as a sportsman even when I have no connection to his home country. That's how sports has a reach beyond politics.
Lewis could be a UN politician, not just UK.

Nobody is owed a political message at a sporting event, much less one that large sections of the population disagree with and divides the drivers and fans. You can always seek out or campaign for politics independently if you wish to engage in it.
oz_karter wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 2:23 am
wire2004 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 10:07 pm
It's simple for me.
I dont tune in to see the wra1. A blm movement. Or anything decisive in the political world or in general life.
I think the problem here is seeing it as a divisive political issue.

It absolutely isn't and shouldn't be. It's a social problem and a deeply wrong one.

There is no valid argument that racism, bigotry or discrimination is acceptable.

Those misconceptions, views and ideologies must be corrected. Idols and sports bodies communicating that racism and discrimination is wrong should not be a problem for you unless you have these views and are uncomfortable about them being challenged.
I find the reason those who don't see it as a problem is because they agree with it. The fact that people do disagree, see it is neocommunist propaganda, and divides drivers and fans, is what makes it a problem. You may not think it should be divisive, but people are divided nonetheless (and no, people who disagree with you are not racists and bigots).

This campaign says racism is wrong but claims it's existence where it is disputable it exists and in what form - basically a BLM style propaganda which has a very narrow philosophical window. Ethnic minorities are not oppressed in the UK or US. See, we have a difference of opinion already, so why divide people at a sporting event with such propaganda?

This thread been a demonstration of why partisan politics should be kept out of sports.

oz_karter
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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by oz_karter »

Anti-racism is communist propaganda?

Wow I must read the wrong news sources. This is a revelation...

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myattitude
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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by myattitude »

oz_karter wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 7:20 am
Anti-racism is communist propaganda?

Wow I must read the wrong news sources. This is a revelation...
It's easy for propagandists to cloak themselves in good deeds. Villains who twirl their moustaches are easy to spot.

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F1Tyrant
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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by F1Tyrant »

myattitude wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 7:17 am
Chicism is not just an economic philosophy.
The death of religion really has let some people do away with the pretense that being a decent person is something to strive for. Secular morality is beautifully libertarian, live and let live. The only people who don't like it are bullies (of all stripes, left and right).
myattitude wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 7:17 am
If you disagree with my assessment, surely it's better just keep politics out of sport so we fans don't have to be divided? It worked well for decades.
As you've proved, people are taking purely cultural issues and saying they are political because their own views are slowly dying out. I'm sure F1's push for enviromentalism and sustainability can be spun as political, also their stance on participants wearing masks during the pandemic.
myattitude wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 7:17 am
Lewis could be a UN politician, not just UK.
Lol, of course you want him shipped off to a role he can make no meaningful difference while right wing governments dominate politically pretty much everywhere.
myattitude wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 7:17 am
The fact that people do disagree, see it is neocommunist propaganda, and divides drivers and fans, is what makes it a problem. You may not think it should be divisive, but people are divided nonetheless (and no, people who disagree with you are not racists and bigots).
Look man, you've lost. BLM and WRA1 has won the discourse culturally. We both know the only way to reverse it using political power but it's a world neither of us want to live in.
myattitude wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 7:17 am
Ethnic minorities are not oppressed in the UK or US. See, we have a difference of opinion already, so why divide people at a sporting event with such propaganda?
The statement you made is factually incorrect, a demonstrable falsehood. Not an opinion a fact.

People confusing opinion with fact is how we get polarisation. Sadly, reality has a left-wing bias so people who lean right need to rewrite reality.
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Siao7
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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by Siao7 »

Is there a link for that video? I couldn't watch the race, so I missed it.

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DOLOMITE
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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by DOLOMITE »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 6:21 pm


As for the talk of "diversity campaigns" being racist against white people, there definitely appears to be some wild misunderstanding of what this involves. It's not about forgoing the hiring less able minority people at the expense of more able, or equally able white people, or about fulfilling quotas. It's about looking into the reasons why people from minority backgrounds are less likely to go into STEM fields and why the minority people who do go into those fields are less likely to go into F1. Toto Wolff mentioned in an interview how many minority graduates who are top in their fields do not even consider F1 but they would be very valuable in the sport.

If they don't want to do it, then that's fine - but if it's that they don't think F1 is a viable organisation for them to have a career path because of their ethnicity, then that is something that needs to be addressed.
but is that an answer anyone is prepared for?
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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by mikeyg123 »

DOLOMITE wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 9:53 am
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 6:21 pm


As for the talk of "diversity campaigns" being racist against white people, there definitely appears to be some wild misunderstanding of what this involves. It's not about forgoing the hiring less able minority people at the expense of more able, or equally able white people, or about fulfilling quotas. It's about looking into the reasons why people from minority backgrounds are less likely to go into STEM fields and why the minority people who do go into those fields are less likely to go into F1. Toto Wolff mentioned in an interview how many minority graduates who are top in their fields do not even consider F1 but they would be very valuable in the sport.

If they don't want to do it, then that's fine - but if it's that they don't think F1 is a viable organisation for them to have a career path because of their ethnicity, then that is something that needs to be addressed.
but is that an answer anyone is prepared for?
Are the issues outlined above race issues or at the heart are they class/economic issues?

In Britain white working class boys are the most under represented demographic in higher education. They are also probably the most maligned demographic and receive little assistance in terms of quotas or campaigns.

So many things that get attributed to race could so easily be instead attributed to class in the UK.

Sort out economic barriers and class discrimination and you go a hell of a long way to solving issues that are supposedly about racism.

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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by F1Tyrant »

DOLOMITE wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 9:53 am
but is that an answer anyone is prepared for?
An answer that confirms the prejudices of racists, you mean. Doesn't stop the race realists and human biodiversity crowd from already claiming certain ethnicities have low IQs and are "lazy" from warping the already available data.

You do realise that a lot of pre-1840s science tried to justify slavery and the pre-1940s science tried to justify the unequal outcomes between the races. Most of it has been debunked.

Let's just say it's unlikely that rigorous scienctific investigation is going to discover something where literally racist scientists failed in the last 200 years.
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DOLOMITE
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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by DOLOMITE »

F1Tyrant wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 10:08 am
DOLOMITE wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 9:53 am
but is that an answer anyone is prepared for?
An answer that confirms the prejudices of racists, you mean. Doesn't stop the race realists and human biodiversity crowd from already claiming certain ethnicities have low IQs and are "lazy" from warping the already available data.

You do realise that a lot of pre-1840s science tried to justify slavery and the pre-1940s science tried to justify the unequal outcomes between the races. Most of it has been debunked.

Let's just say it's unlikely that rigorous scienctific investigation is going to discover something where literally racist scientists failed in the last 200 years.
I didn't *mean* anything - it was a question. You've gone down an inferior/superior route, I'm thinking more just "different". Men and women are "equal" in that sense, but they are are different. I've got 2 boys. One likes rap the other likes punk, one likes fishing, the other thinks its' cruel. One is shy and aloof, the other super-confident. One isn't "better" than the other and I don't spend time looking into why one doesn't like certain things when the other does.

I was hesitant about posting in this thread as it's not why I come on this forum even though the topic interests me a great deal. So with respect to all I'm going to duck out and stick to posting about less emotional topics where differences of opinion can be more willingly accepted. Like whether Hamilton is better than Schumacher ;)
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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

DOLOMITE wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 9:53 am
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 6:21 pm


As for the talk of "diversity campaigns" being racist against white people, there definitely appears to be some wild misunderstanding of what this involves. It's not about forgoing the hiring less able minority people at the expense of more able, or equally able white people, or about fulfilling quotas. It's about looking into the reasons why people from minority backgrounds are less likely to go into STEM fields and why the minority people who do go into those fields are less likely to go into F1. Toto Wolff mentioned in an interview how many minority graduates who are top in their fields do not even consider F1 but they would be very valuable in the sport.

If they don't want to do it, then that's fine - but if it's that they don't think F1 is a viable organisation for them to have a career path because of their ethnicity, then that is something that needs to be addressed.
but is that an answer anyone is prepared for?
The 'they' I was referring to was at an individual level... Are you trying to suggest there is a possibility that minority people might genetically not want to go into Formula 1?!

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Re: The Race as One Initiative

Post by A.J. »

Tufty wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 9:14 pm
I'd just like to apologise to the mod team for starting this. If I'd realised how much work it would create I'd have just deleted my post.
I haven't actively participated in this thread yet, but am reading very closely. I find it amusing that someone would apologise to the mod team for initiating a healthy debate - isn't that what this and every other forum is meant for? :D

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