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PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 10:55 am
by Jenson's Understeer
The results of the Imola TMW vote saw the respective battles divided into three very obvious groups.

Firstly, you have the drivers who lead 2-0 and have received every single vote for that team so far. This is the 'tremendous three': Lewis Hamilton, Lance Stroll and Mick Schumacher. Perhaps not all three names we would've expected, but they have yet to receive a vote against them. It means that Bottas, Vettel and Mazepin are all in danger of becoming the first driver(s) to start the season without garnering a single vote in the first three races, which would surpass the low bar set by Pierre Gasly at the start of the 2019 season (he received one vote in the third race, having had none in the first two).

After this group of three drivers come the 'fantastic five': the drivers to have won both TMW votes so far but without taking 100% of the votes. These are Max Verstappen, Lando Norris, Charles Leclerc, Kimi Raikkonen and George Russell. Norris is surely the standout name of these five, having taken 97% of the vote share versus the formidable Daniel Ricciardo, boosting not just his own reputation but perhaps beginning to damage the Australian's a little, too? The other four would probably have been expected to be ahead at this stage of the season, though both Giovinazzi and Latifi have taken a larger share of the vote than they had in previous season(s). It may also be worth highlighting that Carlos Sainz seems to be benefitting from a single voter who is either very much a Sainz fanboy or is a very disgruntled anti-Leclerc poster, for Leclerc has taken all but one of the Ferrari votes at both races so far. The only other explanation is that one person (perhaps not the same person) at each race vehemently believed Sainz had the better race/weekend, yet didn't publicly share that opinion... I know which option I'm going for, though!

Which leaves us a third 'group' of two teams: AlphaTauri and Alpine. These are the only votes to currently be level, with all four drivers involved having won one of the TMW votes so far. Given that, it will be no surprise that these are the closest votes so far in terms of the percentage split, too. The Alpine duo are currently the closest of the lot, with Fernando having received 20 votes to Esteban's 18 for the year so far. The beginning of the end of Alonso's time as one of F1's current elite, or just Ocon taking advantage of a little rust? We'll soon find out, I'm sure!

Imola GP Vote Results

Mercedes: Hamilton wins with 100% of the vote (20-0)
Red Bull: Verstappen wins with 100% of the vote (20-0)
McLaren: Norris wins with 100% of the vote (19-0)
Aston Martin: Stroll wins with 100% of the vote (19-0)
Alpine: Ocon wins with 94% of the vote (17-1)
Ferrari: Leclerc wins with 95% of the vote (19-1)
AlphaTauri: Gasly wins with 95% of the vote (19-1)
Alfa Romeo: Raikkonen wins with 80% of the vote (16-4)
Haas: Schumacher wins with 100% of the vote (18-0)
Williams: Russell wins with 67% of the vote (12-6)

Season Scores

Mercedes: Hamilton leads 2-0 (with 100% of the vote)
Red Bull: Verstappen leads 2-0 (with 92% of the vote)
McLaren: Norris leads 2-0 (with 97% of the vote)
Aston Martin: Stroll leads 2-0 (with 100% of the vote)
Alpine: Alonso and Ocon are tied 1-1 (Alonso leads with 53% of the vote)
Ferrari: Leclerc leads 2-0 (with 95% of the vote)
AlphaTauri: Gasly and Tsunoda are tied 1-1 (Gasly leads with 63% of the vote)
Alfa Romeo: Raikkonen leads 2-0 (with 72% of the vote)
Haas: Schumacher leads 2-0 (with 100% of the vote)
Williams: Russell leads 2-0 (with 81% of the vote)

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 11:05 am
by yodasarmpit
Pretty much where they all finished in the race this week, with the exception of Vettel - I think he performed a bit better this week and better than Stroll (just).

Hamilton bar the restart was clearly faster than Bottas
Max is at a different level to Perez, and don't see that changing
Norris easily ahead of Danny at the moment on performance
Ocon had the better overall weekend, some good driving from Alonso - although most of the passing done through pit stops
Gasly ok, but Tsunoda didn't really show up this week
Sainz fell back, Leclerc showing an edge on him (still settling in hopefully)
Schumacher is miles ahead of the disaster that is Mazepin
Giovinazzi gets this because, well Kimi crashed into him :)
Russel, but just - bit anonymous this Sunday

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 11:33 am
by BMWSauber84
This is very clear cut this time. I could only imagine there being even a hint of debate about Alpine and Aston Martin.

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 11:51 am
by TheGiantHogweed
yodasarmpit wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:05 am
Pretty much where they all finished in the race this week, with the exception of Vettel - I think he performed a bit better this week and better than Stroll (just).

Hamilton bar the restart was clearly faster than Bottas
Max is at a different level to Perez, and don't see that changing
Norris easily ahead of Danny at the moment on performance
Ocon had the better overall weekend, some good driving from Alonso - although most of the passing done through pit stops
Gasly ok, but Tsunoda didn't really show up this week
Sainz fell back, Leclerc showing an edge on him (still settling in hopefully)
Schumacher is miles ahead of the disaster that is Mazepin
Giovinazzi gets this because, well Kimi crashed into him :)
Russel, but just - bit anonymous this Sunday
All very easy like you say, but as vettel started in the top 10 and Stroll out of q1 and he still managed to finish ahead, I don't really know how Vettel was vetter overall. Stroll managed a 40 lap stint on softs and made that work - and he finished ahead.

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 11:54 am
by mikeyg123
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:51 am
yodasarmpit wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:05 am
Pretty much where they all finished in the race this week, with the exception of Vettel - I think he performed a bit better this week and better than Stroll (just).

Hamilton bar the restart was clearly faster than Bottas
Max is at a different level to Perez, and don't see that changing
Norris easily ahead of Danny at the moment on performance
Ocon had the better overall weekend, some good driving from Alonso - although most of the passing done through pit stops
Gasly ok, but Tsunoda didn't really show up this week
Sainz fell back, Leclerc showing an edge on him (still settling in hopefully)
Schumacher is miles ahead of the disaster that is Mazepin
Giovinazzi gets this because, well Kimi crashed into him :)
Russel, but just - bit anonymous this Sunday
All very easy like you say, but as vettel started in the top 10 and Stroll out of q1 and he still managed to finish ahead, I don't really know how Vettel was vetter overall. Stroll managed a 40 lap stint on softs and made that work - and he finished ahead.
Vettel finished ahead.

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 12:12 pm
by TheGiantHogweed
mikeyg123 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:54 am
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:51 am
yodasarmpit wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:05 am
Pretty much where they all finished in the race this week, with the exception of Vettel - I think he performed a bit better this week and better than Stroll (just).

Hamilton bar the restart was clearly faster than Bottas
Max is at a different level to Perez, and don't see that changing
Norris easily ahead of Danny at the moment on performance
Ocon had the better overall weekend, some good driving from Alonso - although most of the passing done through pit stops
Gasly ok, but Tsunoda didn't really show up this week
Sainz fell back, Leclerc showing an edge on him (still settling in hopefully)
Schumacher is miles ahead of the disaster that is Mazepin
Giovinazzi gets this because, well Kimi crashed into him :)
Russel, but just - bit anonymous this Sunday
All very easy like you say, but as vettel started in the top 10 and Stroll out of q1 and he still managed to finish ahead, I don't really know how Vettel was vetter overall. Stroll managed a 40 lap stint on softs and made that work - and he finished ahead.
Vettel finished ahead.
Indeed, I'm wrong there. Rewatching the highlights, that happened on the final lap. Interesting as vettel was 2 seconds behind 1 lap earlier. I haven't voted yet, but yes, not i can see why Vettel gets the vote.

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 12:24 pm
by yodasarmpit
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:51 am

All very easy like you say, but as vettel started in the top 10 and Stroll out of q1 and he still managed to finish ahead, I don't really know how Vettel was vetter overall. Stroll managed a 40 lap stint on softs and made that work - and he finished ahead.
Yeah, I might have been a bit generous with Vettel, might have been blinded by the fact he wasn't 15th and behind Stroll :) - still gets my vote by a tiny margin.

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 12:26 pm
by mikeyg123
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 12:12 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:54 am
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:51 am
yodasarmpit wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:05 am
Pretty much where they all finished in the race this week, with the exception of Vettel - I think he performed a bit better this week and better than Stroll (just).

Hamilton bar the restart was clearly faster than Bottas
Max is at a different level to Perez, and don't see that changing
Norris easily ahead of Danny at the moment on performance
Ocon had the better overall weekend, some good driving from Alonso - although most of the passing done through pit stops
Gasly ok, but Tsunoda didn't really show up this week
Sainz fell back, Leclerc showing an edge on him (still settling in hopefully)
Schumacher is miles ahead of the disaster that is Mazepin
Giovinazzi gets this because, well Kimi crashed into him :)
Russel, but just - bit anonymous this Sunday
All very easy like you say, but as vettel started in the top 10 and Stroll out of q1 and he still managed to finish ahead, I don't really know how Vettel was vetter overall. Stroll managed a 40 lap stint on softs and made that work - and he finished ahead.
Vettel finished ahead.
Indeed, I'm wrong there. Rewatching the highlights, that happened on the final lap. Interesting as vettel was 2 seconds behind 1 lap earlier. I haven't voted yet, but yes, not i can see why Vettel gets the vote.
Vettel let Stroll through earlier and when he couldn't make up further ground he let Vettel back through on the last lap.

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 1:59 pm
by TheGiantHogweed
mikeyg123 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 12:26 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 12:12 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:54 am
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:51 am
yodasarmpit wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:05 am
Pretty much where they all finished in the race this week, with the exception of Vettel - I think he performed a bit better this week and better than Stroll (just).

Hamilton bar the restart was clearly faster than Bottas
Max is at a different level to Perez, and don't see that changing
Norris easily ahead of Danny at the moment on performance
Ocon had the better overall weekend, some good driving from Alonso - although most of the passing done through pit stops
Gasly ok, but Tsunoda didn't really show up this week
Sainz fell back, Leclerc showing an edge on him (still settling in hopefully)
Schumacher is miles ahead of the disaster that is Mazepin
Giovinazzi gets this because, well Kimi crashed into him :)
Russel, but just - bit anonymous this Sunday
All very easy like you say, but as vettel started in the top 10 and Stroll out of q1 and he still managed to finish ahead, I don't really know how Vettel was vetter overall. Stroll managed a 40 lap stint on softs and made that work - and he finished ahead.
Vettel finished ahead.
Indeed, I'm wrong there. Rewatching the highlights, that happened on the final lap. Interesting as vettel was 2 seconds behind 1 lap earlier. I haven't voted yet, but yes, not i can see why Vettel gets the vote.
Vettel let Stroll through earlier and when he couldn't make up further ground he let Vettel back through on the last lap.
Right, I think that is enough to say they were close, but vettel should get it as he qualified ahead and quite likely will have managed to keep stroll behind until the end anyway without any team orders. Although stroll did pull a bit of a gap after being let by.

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 2:12 pm
by Rockie
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 1:59 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 12:26 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 12:12 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:54 am
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:51 am

All very easy like you say, but as vettel started in the top 10 and Stroll out of q1 and he still managed to finish ahead, I don't really know how Vettel was vetter overall. Stroll managed a 40 lap stint on softs and made that work - and he finished ahead.
Vettel finished ahead.
Indeed, I'm wrong there. Rewatching the highlights, that happened on the final lap. Interesting as vettel was 2 seconds behind 1 lap earlier. I haven't voted yet, but yes, not i can see why Vettel gets the vote.
Vettel let Stroll through earlier and when he couldn't make up further ground he let Vettel back through on the last lap.
Right, I think that is enough to say they were close, but vettel should get it as he qualified ahead and quite likely will have managed to keep stroll behind until the end anyway without any team orders. Although stroll did pull a bit of a gap after being let by.
The reason Vettel finished behind Stroll is the same reason Sainz finished behind Leclerc and out of the points the strategy.

Everyone that went soft-medium went backwards. whereas soft to hard's or medium to hard's went forward.

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 2:50 pm
by pokerman
Hamilton - Edged out in qualifying but was much the quicker in the race although Bottas was still respectfully competitive. .

Verstappen - Quicker in both qualifying and the race but Perez did have good pace.

Norris - Completely dominant over Ricciardo.

Leclerc - Lost out in qualifying but actually didn't because unlike Sainz he was able to qualify into Q3 on the mediums, this was pertinent to Leclerc having a good race and Sainz a poor race.

Ocon - He easily beat Alonso in qualifying but this was somewhat of a curse because it put him on a worse tyre strategy, Alonso nearly had him at the flag.

Gasly - He was solid in qualifying but the track didn't suit the AlphaTauri, Tsunoda was terrible.

Giovinazzi - Easily out qualified Kimi who then went and had a senior moment in the race.

Vettel - Another driver that got punished by qualifying well in respect to his teammate thus giving him a worse tyre strategy, a strange team order thing then happened which ultimately took away the chance of Stroll finishing in front, Stroll perhaps should have looked to pass Vettel on merit they were not even competing for points.

Russell - Russell seemed to have Latifi in his pocket.

Schumacher - Schumacher seems to be adapting well to F1 while Mazepin is not adapting at all.

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 3:07 pm
by Rockie
pokerman wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 2:50 pm
Hamilton - Edged out in qualifying but was much the quicker in the race although Bottas was still respectfully competitive. .

Verstappen - Quicker in both qualifying and the race but Perez did have good pace.

Norris - Completely dominant over Ricciardo.

Leclerc - Lost out in qualifying but actually didn't because unlike Sainz he was able to qualify into Q3 on the mediums, this was pertinent to Leclerc having a good race and Sainz a poor race.

Ocon - He easily beat Alonso in qualifying but this was somewhat of a curse because it put him on a worse tyre strategy, Alonso nearly had him at the flag.

Gasly - He was solid in qualifying but the track didn't suit the AlphaTauri, Tsunoda was terrible.

Giovinazzi - Easily out qualified Kimi who then went and had a senior moment in the race.

Vettel - Another driver that got punished by qualifying well in respect to his teammate thus giving him a worse tyre strategy, a strange team order thing then happened which ultimately took away the chance of Stroll finishing in front, Stroll perhaps should have looked to pass Vettel on merit they were not even competing for points.

Russell - Russell seemed to have Latifi in his pocket.

Schumacher - Schumacher seems to be adapting well to F1 while Mazepin is not adapting at all.
On the Leclerc vs Sainz issue on the soft vs medium Leclerc didnt go further than Sainz the only reason he beat him was Leclerc went onto the hards and Sainz the medium thus lost places not that Leclerc was faster than him.

Vettel was told to let Stroll go to see if his 17 laps younger tyre would allow him attack but he made no inroads

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 3:20 pm
by pokerman
Rockie wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 3:07 pm
pokerman wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 2:50 pm
Hamilton - Edged out in qualifying but was much the quicker in the race although Bottas was still respectfully competitive. .

Verstappen - Quicker in both qualifying and the race but Perez did have good pace.

Norris - Completely dominant over Ricciardo.

Leclerc - Lost out in qualifying but actually didn't because unlike Sainz he was able to qualify into Q3 on the mediums, this was pertinent to Leclerc having a good race and Sainz a poor race.

Ocon - He easily beat Alonso in qualifying but this was somewhat of a curse because it put him on a worse tyre strategy, Alonso nearly had him at the flag.

Gasly - He was solid in qualifying but the track didn't suit the AlphaTauri, Tsunoda was terrible.

Giovinazzi - Easily out qualified Kimi who then went and had a senior moment in the race.

Vettel - Another driver that got punished by qualifying well in respect to his teammate thus giving him a worse tyre strategy, a strange team order thing then happened which ultimately took away the chance of Stroll finishing in front, Stroll perhaps should have looked to pass Vettel on merit they were not even competing for points.

Russell - Russell seemed to have Latifi in his pocket.

Schumacher - Schumacher seems to be adapting well to F1 while Mazepin is not adapting at all.
On the Leclerc vs Sainz issue on the soft vs medium Leclerc didnt go further than Sainz the only reason he beat him was Leclerc went onto the hards and Sainz the medium thus lost places not that Leclerc was faster than him.

Vettel was told to let Stroll go to see if his 17 laps younger tyre would allow him attack but he made no inroads
Yeah it looks like the mistake was going onto mediums rather than hards.

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 3:49 pm
by tootsie323
Rockie wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 2:12 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 1:59 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 12:26 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 12:12 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:54 am


Vettel finished ahead.
Indeed, I'm wrong there. Rewatching the highlights, that happened on the final lap. Interesting as vettel was 2 seconds behind 1 lap earlier. I haven't voted yet, but yes, not i can see why Vettel gets the vote.
Vettel let Stroll through earlier and when he couldn't make up further ground he let Vettel back through on the last lap.
Right, I think that is enough to say they were close, but vettel should get it as he qualified ahead and quite likely will have managed to keep stroll behind until the end anyway without any team orders. Although stroll did pull a bit of a gap after being let by.
The reason Vettel finished behind Stroll is the same reason Sainz finished behind Leclerc and out of the points the strategy.

Everyone that went soft-medium went backwards. whereas soft to hard's or medium to hard's went forward.
... Norris being the (at least, for me) notable exception.

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 6:20 pm
by pokerman
tootsie323 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 3:49 pm
Rockie wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 2:12 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 1:59 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 12:26 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 12:12 pm


Indeed, I'm wrong there. Rewatching the highlights, that happened on the final lap. Interesting as vettel was 2 seconds behind 1 lap earlier. I haven't voted yet, but yes, not i can see why Vettel gets the vote.
Vettel let Stroll through earlier and when he couldn't make up further ground he let Vettel back through on the last lap.
Right, I think that is enough to say they were close, but vettel should get it as he qualified ahead and quite likely will have managed to keep stroll behind until the end anyway without any team orders. Although stroll did pull a bit of a gap after being let by.
The reason Vettel finished behind Stroll is the same reason Sainz finished behind Leclerc and out of the points the strategy.

Everyone that went soft-medium went backwards. whereas soft to hard's or medium to hard's went forward.
... Norris being the (at least, for me) notable exception.
Yes by all standards you would have to judge he was on the wrong strategy yet he somehow made it work, he's been outstanding this year thus far.

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 6:26 pm
by A.J.
I find it laughable that 3 people here (so far) thought Perez did a better job than Verstappen this race. Or the one person who voted for Kimi over Giovanazzi.

Must be nice to live in alternate realities...

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 6:59 pm
by tootsie323
A.J. wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 6:26 pm
I find it laughable that 3 people here (so far) thought Perez did a better job than Verstappen this race. Or the one person who voted for Kimi over Giovanazzi.

Must be nice to live in alternate realities...
First to the sandpit wins...

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 7:02 pm
by WHoff78
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 1:59 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 12:26 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 12:12 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:54 am
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:51 am

All very easy like you say, but as vettel started in the top 10 and Stroll out of q1 and he still managed to finish ahead, I don't really know how Vettel was vetter overall. Stroll managed a 40 lap stint on softs and made that work - and he finished ahead.
Vettel finished ahead.
Indeed, I'm wrong there. Rewatching the highlights, that happened on the final lap. Interesting as vettel was 2 seconds behind 1 lap earlier. I haven't voted yet, but yes, not i can see why Vettel gets the vote.
Vettel let Stroll through earlier and when he couldn't make up further ground he let Vettel back through on the last lap.
Right, I think that is enough to say they were close, but vettel should get it as he qualified ahead and quite likely will have managed to keep stroll behind until the end anyway without any team orders. Although stroll did pull a bit of a gap after being let by.
Besides the fact certain tyre strategies were stronger, it's also important to remember that current F1 does have a handicap in place. Those not quick enough in qualifying are given a lifeline and advantage in the race, which on this occasion helped bring Ricciardo, Stroll and Alonso back into play. Could be compounded if they know they are less likely to make the top 10 and therefore opt for a more racey set-up to go with the tyre advantage.

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 8:31 pm
by JN23
A.J. wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 6:26 pm
I find it laughable that 3 people here (so far) thought Perez did a better job than Verstappen this race. Or the one person who voted for Kimi over Giovanazzi.

Must be nice to live in alternate realities...
I think Kimi always gets a vote regardless of the performance :?

On Verstappen vs Perez - my guess is that those who have voted Perez are penalising Verstappen for making a mistake which cost him pole and a mistake that led to him losing the position to Hamilton during the race, whereas Perez in 4th just did a decent job and his pace was good after getting past Norris. I disagree with that logic, but do understand it.

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 11:18 pm
by Invade
JN23 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 8:31 pm
A.J. wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 6:26 pm
I find it laughable that 3 people here (so far) thought Perez did a better job than Verstappen this race. Or the one person who voted for Kimi over Giovanazzi.

Must be nice to live in alternate realities...
I think Kimi always gets a vote regardless of the performance :?

On Verstappen vs Perez - my guess is that those who have voted Perez are penalising Verstappen for making a mistake which cost him pole and a mistake that led to him losing the position to Hamilton during the race, whereas Perez in 4th just did a decent job and his pace was good after getting past Norris. I disagree with that logic, but do understand it.
I do not understand the logic.

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 5:12 am
by tootsie323
That suggests that Verstappen has been marked down for missing pole in quali and losing out to Hamilton in the race whilst Perez gets a free pass for qualifying further back (ok, one position!) and losing more than one position at the beginning of the race.

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:00 am
by Siao7
Latifi 3 votes?

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 9:12 am
by A.J.
JN23 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 8:31 pm
A.J. wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 6:26 pm
I find it laughable that 3 people here (so far) thought Perez did a better job than Verstappen this race. Or the one person who voted for Kimi over Giovanazzi.

Must be nice to live in alternate realities...
I think Kimi always gets a vote regardless of the performance :?

On Verstappen vs Perez - my guess is that those who have voted Perez are penalising Verstappen for making a mistake which cost him pole and a mistake that led to him losing the position to Hamilton during the race, whereas Perez in 4th just did a decent job and his pace was good after getting past Norris. I disagree with that logic, but do understand it.
Yeah but it isn't really "logic" though, is it? Even with all the fails on Verstappen's part, he still qualified and finished ahead of Perez (even splitting the Mercs) - the point of this exercise is to judge them from an equal perspective (as teammates driving the same machinery), not with one's own preconceptions of expected performance level. There is not a single objective metric where Perez outperformed Verstappen this weekend - for 4 people (so far) to give him the vote is hilarious.

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 9:20 am
by Paolo_Lasardi
A.J. wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:12 am
JN23 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 8:31 pm
A.J. wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 6:26 pm
I find it laughable that 3 people here (so far) thought Perez did a better job than Verstappen this race. Or the one person who voted for Kimi over Giovanazzi.

Must be nice to live in alternate realities...
I think Kimi always gets a vote regardless of the performance :?

On Verstappen vs Perez - my guess is that those who have voted Perez are penalising Verstappen for making a mistake which cost him pole and a mistake that led to him losing the position to Hamilton during the race, whereas Perez in 4th just did a decent job and his pace was good after getting past Norris. I disagree with that logic, but do understand it.
Yeah but it isn't really "logic" though, is it? Even with all the fails on Verstappen's part, he still qualified and finished ahead of Perez (even splitting the Mercs) - the point of this exercise is to judge them from an equal perspective (as teammates driving the same machinery), not with one's own preconceptions of expected performance level. There is not a single objective metric where Perez outperformed Verstappen this weekend - for 4 people (so far) to give him the vote is hilarious.
:thumbup:
Fully agree. The love for Perez over here is bizarre at times.

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 9:23 am
by Paolo_Lasardi
Siao7 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 8:00 am
Latifi 3 votes?
Strange, indeed. Russell did not exactly shine in the race (in contrast to qualifying) but Latifi was even weaker always and everywhere.

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 9:38 am
by TheGiantHogweed
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:23 am
Siao7 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 8:00 am
Latifi 3 votes?
Strange, indeed. Russell did not exactly shine in the race (in contrast to qualifying) but Latifi was even weaker always and everywhere.
Latifi shouldn't have any votes, but he wasn't weaker everywhere. His pace looked pretty close and often equal in the first stint then he overtook and kept Russell behind for nearly 10 laps which is something we pretty much never see. Russell was clearly much better once he got by though so still no reason for votes.

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 10:28 am
by TheGiantHogweed
Obvious and by a pretty big margin over the weekend:

Verstappen over Perez - This may seem a bit harsh on Perez, but given verstappen messed up in qualifying, he did have a chance to once again beat Verstappen, but he didn't. In the race while his pace looked decent, he lost a lot of time at the start and Verstappen overall did a much better job and beat bottas and lead hamilton at one stage too.

Norris over Ricciardo - Very obvious here so don't need to explain why.

Ocon over Alonso - While Alonso's race pace usually looks close to as good as Ocon, his qualifying pace has simply been nowhere the past 2 race weekends which has cost him.

Gasly over Tsunoda - I know Tsunoda is a rookie, but I think that car was far better than he showed it to be in Bahrain and Gasly obviously crashed out hiding what it was capable of. I haven't seen anything from Tsunoda yet that suggests he's as good as his reputation is. He wasn't remotely as good as gasly the past 2 weekends.

Giovinazzi over Raikonnen - I think Kimi is really starting to lose his 1 lap pace. One of the few great things left with kimi is occasional signs of great experience and skill, but he makes too many mistakes and seems to be having more and more brain fades at the moment. He was heavily beaten in qualifying again and made a careless mistake in the race.

Schumacher over Mazepin - Very obvious again both in qualifying and the race. Not much else to say.

Russell over Latifi - Russell looked great on Saturday but his first stint on Sunday and warm up of the tyres after the pit stop wasn't great. It wasn't just down to pitting 4 laps later than Latifi that got him stuck behind for quite some laps. However, when he got by, he extended the gap to over 20 seconds, so the vote is very easy.



Closer, but still an easy vote:

Hamilton over Bottas - Bottas just about managed to beat Hamilton in qualifying which was obviously enough to put him on pole. He nailed the start and I'd actually say he was pretty smart doing what he did at the restart as it allowed him to relax a little. He didn't have the pace of hamilton, but he did everything he did to keep him and Verstappen behind. Without the issue at the end, he likely will have been close to the back of Verstappen and only around 6 - 7 seconds off Hamilton which would have been decent at least.

Leclerc over Sainz - Sainz out qualified leclerc which is certainly an achievement. His initial start was also very good. But the start after the safety car was where things went downhill. Leclerc caught him, but at this point, you still can say Sainz had done the better job so far, then he was the first to pit. Ferrari put him on soft and Leclerc on mediums though. While this was a poor choice by ferrari, I don't believe he should have ben as many places behind Lelerc as he was and a 20+ second gap. That is perhaps why Sainz has some votes which i can sort of understand, but is still pretty easy to go for Leclerc.




Closest:

Vettel over Stoll - Stroll looked poor in qualifying this time and didn't even make it out of Q1 while Vettel made it in to Q3. A big lead for Vettel so far. Stroll had a pretty impressive first stint with 39 laps on the softs (35 racing laps) which was more than anyone else did on this tyre. He looked quicker than vettel most of the race and I actually feel that even without team orders, he may well have ben able to pass later on. but Vettel got team orders earlier on and Stroll didn't gain positions, but he did gain time. Vettel did let him by, so it was only fair that stroll gave it back if he failed to make up places, so Vettel just edges him here.



To add to this, looking at the votes, there are several drivers that really shouldn't have any votes. But we have got used to the fact that many very obvious votes often have 1 vote for the opposite driver possibly just to irritate others. But interestingly, there are more than normal that don't really make sense.

3 for Latifi, 4 for Perez and 8 for Alonso. Alonso is the most surprising. He had a very poor qualifying and still finished behind. No reason at all for a single vote, but it can be mentioned that his pace looked good.
In the end, there was no reason to give them a vote for their weekend performance over their team mates. And it wasn't just 1 vote for a joke like we often get.

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 10:31 am
by Siao7
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:38 am
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:23 am
Siao7 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 8:00 am
Latifi 3 votes?
Strange, indeed. Russell did not exactly shine in the race (in contrast to qualifying) but Latifi was even weaker always and everywhere.
Latifi shouldn't have any votes, but he wasn't weaker everywhere. His pace looked pretty close and often equal in the first stint then he overtook and kept Russell behind for nearly 10 laps which is something we pretty much never see. Russell was clearly much better once he got by though so still no reason for votes.
Yeah, but talking about team mate wars over the whole weekend, it is Russell by a landslide.

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 10:47 am
by TheGiantHogweed
Deleted post.

Re: PF1 Forum teammate wars vote: Portugal 2021

Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 3:46 pm
by Jenson's Understeer
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 10:28 am
3 for Latifi, 4 for Perez and 8 for Alonso. Alonso is the most surprising. He had a very poor qualifying and still finished behind. No reason at all for a single vote, but it can be mentioned that his pace looked good.
In the end, there was no reason to give them a vote for their weekend performance over their team mates. And it wasn't just 1 vote for a joke like we often get.
With Alonso/Ocon I'd bet it's an issue of perception versus reality.

The reality is Ocon comfortably outqualified Fernando, and the only time he was behind him in the race was because of strategy. There is no reason to vote for Alonso. However, what I mean by perception is that Alonso's race would've been seen as a recovery drive where he got to make overtakes, bang in quick laps etc., so had a more eye-catching race. Whereas Ocon wasn't shown on screen a lot, didn't have a string of overtakes, didn't have Croft/Brundle lauding his pace as being just below the front three towards the end of the race, etc. If we want to be really pedantic then we can even highlight that he actually lost a position from where he started so technically went backwards.

It completely ignores the fact that Alonso's recovery drive was only necessary because he did such a bad job in quali, and that Ocon still both qualified and finished ahead of him. But by making more noise in the race, Alonso is seen as having had a better race and he's given a pass for what happened on Saturday because of that.

Perez getting four votes is harder to comprehend, but then again he did win the DOTD vote so there are apparently plenty of people who thought he did a better job than Max. Again, no rhyme nor reason for it, particularly as the reason he had to recover was similar to Alonso i.e. it was self-inflicted.