2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

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UnlikeUday
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

This clip sheds some light on the Perez-Lando incident. Perez claimed Lando had all his 4 wheels outside of turn 4 before he overtook him at turn 5.

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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

Some good onboards from the race:

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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Siao7 »

UnlikeUday wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:17 am
This clip sheds some light on the Perez-Lando incident. Perez claimed Lando had all his 4 wheels outside of turn 4 before he overtook him at turn 5.

Isn't Perez also with all 4 wheels outside as well??? Seems a bit cheeky to blame Lando then

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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

Siao7 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 2:21 pm
UnlikeUday wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:17 am
This clip sheds some light on the Perez-Lando incident. Perez claimed Lando had all his 4 wheels outside of turn 4 before he overtook him at turn 5.

Isn't Perez also with all 4 wheels outside as well??? Seems a bit cheeky to blame Lando then
Perez had 2 wheels on the red & white kerbs whereas Lando was completely out on all 4 wheels.
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Siao7
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Siao7 »

UnlikeUday wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:22 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 2:21 pm
UnlikeUday wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:17 am
This clip sheds some light on the Perez-Lando incident. Perez claimed Lando had all his 4 wheels outside of turn 4 before he overtook him at turn 5.

Isn't Perez also with all 4 wheels outside as well??? Seems a bit cheeky to blame Lando then
Perez had 2 wheels on the red & white kerbs whereas Lando was completely out on all 4 wheels.
Aren't the kerbs outside the lines? Genuine question, not trying to be cheeky!

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UnlikeUday
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

Siao7 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:27 pm
UnlikeUday wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:22 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 2:21 pm
UnlikeUday wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:17 am
This clip sheds some light on the Perez-Lando incident. Perez claimed Lando had all his 4 wheels outside of turn 4 before he overtook him at turn 5.

Isn't Perez also with all 4 wheels outside as well??? Seems a bit cheeky to blame Lando then
Perez had 2 wheels on the red & white kerbs whereas Lando was completely out on all 4 wheels.
Aren't the kerbs outside the lines? Genuine question, not trying to be cheeky!
As You can see in the Youtube video preview image, the red & white kerbs are alright. That is allowed. Going on the outside of red & white kerbs isn't allowed. The track limit is on the outside of those kerbs which are close to the left front & rear wheels of the McLaren.
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Siao7
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Siao7 »

UnlikeUday wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:40 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:27 pm
UnlikeUday wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:22 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 2:21 pm
UnlikeUday wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:17 am
This clip sheds some light on the Perez-Lando incident. Perez claimed Lando had all his 4 wheels outside of turn 4 before he overtook him at turn 5.

Isn't Perez also with all 4 wheels outside as well??? Seems a bit cheeky to blame Lando then
Perez had 2 wheels on the red & white kerbs whereas Lando was completely out on all 4 wheels.
Aren't the kerbs outside the lines? Genuine question, not trying to be cheeky!
As You can see in the Youtube video preview image, the red & white kerbs are alright. That is allowed. Going on the outside of red & white kerbs isn't allowed. The track limit is on the outside of those kerbs which are close to the left front & rear wheels of the McLaren.
Ok, thanks. Even from the youtube image it looks like the white lines are on the inside of the kerbs, between them and the track. But I am not sure, that's why I am asking!

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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

Siao7 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 4:21 pm
UnlikeUday wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:40 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:27 pm
UnlikeUday wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:22 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 2:21 pm


Isn't Perez also with all 4 wheels outside as well??? Seems a bit cheeky to blame Lando then
Perez had 2 wheels on the red & white kerbs whereas Lando was completely out on all 4 wheels.
Aren't the kerbs outside the lines? Genuine question, not trying to be cheeky!
As You can see in the Youtube video preview image, the red & white kerbs are alright. That is allowed. Going on the outside of red & white kerbs isn't allowed. The track limit is on the outside of those kerbs which are close to the left front & rear wheels of the McLaren.
Ok, thanks. Even from the youtube image it looks like the white lines are on the inside of the kerbs, between them and the track. But I am not sure, that's why I am asking!
Image
Source - Imgur

This is Verstappen at turn 1 after overtaking Hamilton after SC restart. Very similar to Perez.
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Siao7
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Siao7 »

UnlikeUday wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 4:50 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 4:21 pm
UnlikeUday wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:40 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:27 pm
UnlikeUday wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:22 pm


Perez had 2 wheels on the red & white kerbs whereas Lando was completely out on all 4 wheels.
Aren't the kerbs outside the lines? Genuine question, not trying to be cheeky!
As You can see in the Youtube video preview image, the red & white kerbs are alright. That is allowed. Going on the outside of red & white kerbs isn't allowed. The track limit is on the outside of those kerbs which are close to the left front & rear wheels of the McLaren.
Ok, thanks. Even from the youtube image it looks like the white lines are on the inside of the kerbs, between them and the track. But I am not sure, that's why I am asking!
Image
Source - Imgur

This is Verstappen at turn 1 after overtaking Hamilton after SC restart. Very similar to Perez.
:thumbup:

WHoff78
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by WHoff78 »

Siao7 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 4:21 pm
UnlikeUday wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:40 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:27 pm
UnlikeUday wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:22 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 2:21 pm


Isn't Perez also with all 4 wheels outside as well??? Seems a bit cheeky to blame Lando then
Perez had 2 wheels on the red & white kerbs whereas Lando was completely out on all 4 wheels.
Aren't the kerbs outside the lines? Genuine question, not trying to be cheeky!
As You can see in the Youtube video preview image, the red & white kerbs are alright. That is allowed. Going on the outside of red & white kerbs isn't allowed. The track limit is on the outside of those kerbs which are close to the left front & rear wheels of the McLaren.
Ok, thanks. Even from the youtube image it looks like the white lines are on the inside of the kerbs, between them and the track. But I am not sure, that's why I am asking!
They defined in the pre-race notes at which corners the white lines or the red/white curbs would govern, and apparently this was updated on Saturday morning ahead of qualifying. I think this is could have caught Max out, as he seemed under the impression that T14 wasn't being monitored for fastest lap.

Fiki
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Fiki »

WHoff78 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 6:22 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 4:21 pm
UnlikeUday wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:40 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:27 pm
UnlikeUday wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:22 pm


Perez had 2 wheels on the red & white kerbs whereas Lando was completely out on all 4 wheels.
Aren't the kerbs outside the lines? Genuine question, not trying to be cheeky!
As You can see in the Youtube video preview image, the red & white kerbs are alright. That is allowed. Going on the outside of red & white kerbs isn't allowed. The track limit is on the outside of those kerbs which are close to the left front & rear wheels of the McLaren.
Ok, thanks. Even from the youtube image it looks like the white lines are on the inside of the kerbs, between them and the track. But I am not sure, that's why I am asking!
They defined in the pre-race notes at which corners the white lines or the red/white curbs would govern, and apparently this was updated on Saturday morning ahead of qualifying. I think this is could have caught Max out, as he seemed under the impression that T14 wasn't being monitored for fastest lap.
The possibilities are limited. He may have forgotten the update, he may not have understood the update, or he didn't read the update. Only the first possibility is his fault, the others are fully on his team. And I would suggest that prior to sending him on his way for a shot at fastest lap, he should have been reminded on the radio about all the corners where there were silly track limit alterations in force.

All in all, it's quite simple really; the white lines define the track, not the red-and-white kerbs, not the green artificial grass, not even the front edge of the grandstands. And only the FIA is to blame, because it is stupid to first call for the highest possible amount of downforce (2017) and then admit that the drivers can't handle the cars... How about that Mr. Brawn?
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

Fiki wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 5:58 pm
WHoff78 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 6:22 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 4:21 pm
UnlikeUday wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:40 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:27 pm


Aren't the kerbs outside the lines? Genuine question, not trying to be cheeky!
As You can see in the Youtube video preview image, the red & white kerbs are alright. That is allowed. Going on the outside of red & white kerbs isn't allowed. The track limit is on the outside of those kerbs which are close to the left front & rear wheels of the McLaren.
Ok, thanks. Even from the youtube image it looks like the white lines are on the inside of the kerbs, between them and the track. But I am not sure, that's why I am asking!
They defined in the pre-race notes at which corners the white lines or the red/white curbs would govern, and apparently this was updated on Saturday morning ahead of qualifying. I think this is could have caught Max out, as he seemed under the impression that T14 wasn't being monitored for fastest lap.
The possibilities are limited. He may have forgotten the update, he may not have understood the update, or he didn't read the update. Only the first possibility is his fault, the others are fully on his team. And I would suggest that prior to sending him on his way for a shot at fastest lap, he should have been reminded on the radio about all the corners where there were silly track limit alterations in force.

All in all, it's quite simple really; the white lines define the track, not the red-and-white kerbs, not the green artificial grass, not even the front edge of the grandstands. And only the FIA is to blame, because it is stupid to first call for the highest possible amount of downforce (2017) and then admit that the drivers can't handle the cars... How about that Mr. Brawn?
I think we can debate whether it should be the white lines or the red and white kerbs but all 4 wheels on the green is definitely off the track, Norris should have had to give the place back but it seems that beyond the race leaders the stewards often don't know what's going on or maybe an element of not caring as much even after Perez complained about it.
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WHoff78
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by WHoff78 »

Fiki wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 5:58 pm
WHoff78 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 6:22 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 4:21 pm
UnlikeUday wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:40 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:27 pm


Aren't the kerbs outside the lines? Genuine question, not trying to be cheeky!
As You can see in the Youtube video preview image, the red & white kerbs are alright. That is allowed. Going on the outside of red & white kerbs isn't allowed. The track limit is on the outside of those kerbs which are close to the left front & rear wheels of the McLaren.
Ok, thanks. Even from the youtube image it looks like the white lines are on the inside of the kerbs, between them and the track. But I am not sure, that's why I am asking!
They defined in the pre-race notes at which corners the white lines or the red/white curbs would govern, and apparently this was updated on Saturday morning ahead of qualifying. I think this is could have caught Max out, as he seemed under the impression that T14 wasn't being monitored for fastest lap.
The possibilities are limited. He may have forgotten the update, he may not have understood the update, or he didn't read the update. Only the first possibility is his fault, the others are fully on his team. And I would suggest that prior to sending him on his way for a shot at fastest lap, he should have been reminded on the radio about all the corners where there were silly track limit alterations in force.

All in all, it's quite simple really; the white lines define the track, not the red-and-white kerbs, not the green artificial grass, not even the front edge of the grandstands. And only the FIA is to blame, because it is stupid to first call for the highest possible amount of downforce (2017) and then admit that the drivers can't handle the cars... How about that Mr. Brawn?
Haha, I can imagine Verstappen's response if his engineer starts trying to recall he track limits over the radio

Siao7
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Siao7 »

WHoff78 wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 11:19 pm
Fiki wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 5:58 pm
WHoff78 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 6:22 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 4:21 pm
UnlikeUday wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:40 pm


As You can see in the Youtube video preview image, the red & white kerbs are alright. That is allowed. Going on the outside of red & white kerbs isn't allowed. The track limit is on the outside of those kerbs which are close to the left front & rear wheels of the McLaren.
Ok, thanks. Even from the youtube image it looks like the white lines are on the inside of the kerbs, between them and the track. But I am not sure, that's why I am asking!
They defined in the pre-race notes at which corners the white lines or the red/white curbs would govern, and apparently this was updated on Saturday morning ahead of qualifying. I think this is could have caught Max out, as he seemed under the impression that T14 wasn't being monitored for fastest lap.
The possibilities are limited. He may have forgotten the update, he may not have understood the update, or he didn't read the update. Only the first possibility is his fault, the others are fully on his team. And I would suggest that prior to sending him on his way for a shot at fastest lap, he should have been reminded on the radio about all the corners where there were silly track limit alterations in force.

All in all, it's quite simple really; the white lines define the track, not the red-and-white kerbs, not the green artificial grass, not even the front edge of the grandstands. And only the FIA is to blame, because it is stupid to first call for the highest possible amount of downforce (2017) and then admit that the drivers can't handle the cars... How about that Mr. Brawn?
Haha, I can imagine Verstappen's response if his engineer starts trying to recall he track limits over the radio
It would be very colourful!!

But Fiki is right, there is a simple solution to all of this; how about staying within the track limits at all times? It is amazing that they need to be reminded. Can we imagine another sport that allows that? It's ok, you can go outside the lines with the ball Mr. Ronaldo, but only on the left side of the pitch and only at half the game... Absurd!

Option or Prime
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Option or Prime »

Siao7 wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 8:34 am
WHoff78 wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 11:19 pm
Fiki wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 5:58 pm
WHoff78 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 6:22 pm
Siao7 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 4:21 pm


Ok, thanks. Even from the youtube image it looks like the white lines are on the inside of the kerbs, between them and the track. But I am not sure, that's why I am asking!
They defined in the pre-race notes at which corners the white lines or the red/white curbs would govern, and apparently this was updated on Saturday morning ahead of qualifying. I think this is could have caught Max out, as he seemed under the impression that T14 wasn't being monitored for fastest lap.
The possibilities are limited. He may have forgotten the update, he may not have understood the update, or he didn't read the update. Only the first possibility is his fault, the others are fully on his team. And I would suggest that prior to sending him on his way for a shot at fastest lap, he should have been reminded on the radio about all the corners where there were silly track limit alterations in force.

All in all, it's quite simple really; the white lines define the track, not the red-and-white kerbs, not the green artificial grass, not even the front edge of the grandstands. And only the FIA is to blame, because it is stupid to first call for the highest possible amount of downforce (2017) and then admit that the drivers can't handle the cars... How about that Mr. Brawn?
Haha, I can imagine Verstappen's response if his engineer starts trying to recall he track limits over the radio
It would be very colourful!!

But Fiki is right, there is a simple solution to all of this; how about staying within the track limits at all times? It is amazing that they need to be reminded. Can we imagine another sport that allows that? It's ok, you can go outside the lines with the ball Mr. Ronaldo, but only on the left side of the pitch and only at half the game... Absurd!
Totally agree, how hard is it to understand that you have to keep it on the black bits!

Siao7
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Siao7 »

Option or Prime wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 8:57 am
Siao7 wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 8:34 am
WHoff78 wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 11:19 pm
Fiki wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 5:58 pm
WHoff78 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 6:22 pm

They defined in the pre-race notes at which corners the white lines or the red/white curbs would govern, and apparently this was updated on Saturday morning ahead of qualifying. I think this is could have caught Max out, as he seemed under the impression that T14 wasn't being monitored for fastest lap.
The possibilities are limited. He may have forgotten the update, he may not have understood the update, or he didn't read the update. Only the first possibility is his fault, the others are fully on his team. And I would suggest that prior to sending him on his way for a shot at fastest lap, he should have been reminded on the radio about all the corners where there were silly track limit alterations in force.

All in all, it's quite simple really; the white lines define the track, not the red-and-white kerbs, not the green artificial grass, not even the front edge of the grandstands. And only the FIA is to blame, because it is stupid to first call for the highest possible amount of downforce (2017) and then admit that the drivers can't handle the cars... How about that Mr. Brawn?
Haha, I can imagine Verstappen's response if his engineer starts trying to recall he track limits over the radio
It would be very colourful!!

But Fiki is right, there is a simple solution to all of this; how about staying within the track limits at all times? It is amazing that they need to be reminded. Can we imagine another sport that allows that? It's ok, you can go outside the lines with the ball Mr. Ronaldo, but only on the left side of the pitch and only at half the game... Absurd!
Totally agree, how hard is it to understand that you have to keep it on the black bits!
I think it is possibly the only sport that despite having rules, everyone pushes the limits until they get told off, to find the line (excuse the pun!)... FIA is getting the flack all the time, mostly deservingly, but when you have 200-or whatever- pages of regs and the participants still need to be reminded of how this game is played, then there is something quite fundamentally wrong. Crazy!

The solution I guess is policing and not letting them get away with it. Sounds simple

WHoff78
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by WHoff78 »

Sorry have to completely disagree with you both on this one. I, and accept that I may be in the minority on this board. For me if they overly-regulate track limits, not only would it be a massive waste of resource and time to manage, but they would almost certainly get it wrong at a high frequency if they try and monitor every corner. Plus it's is just far to draconian to penalize the drivers at points on the circuit where there mistake is sufficient penalty enough. It's not good use of their time in my eyes. I'm happy for them to be stricter where drivers constantly push the boundaries and can find time by going off the track though. I think they are getting close to a reasonable compromise but they'll be teething issues as they get there.

Asphalt_World
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

WHoff78 wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 5:58 pm
Sorry have to completely disagree with you both on this one. I, and accept that I may be in the minority on this board. For me if they overly-regulate track limits, not only would it be a massive waste of resource and time to manage, but they would almost certainly get it wrong at a high frequency if they try and monitor every corner. Plus it's is just far to draconian to penalize the drivers at points on the circuit where there mistake is sufficient penalty enough. It's not good use of their time in my eyes. I'm happy for them to be stricter where drivers constantly push the boundaries and can find time by going off the track though. I think they are getting close to a reasonable compromise but they'll be teething issues as they get there.
To be fair, I think most on here don't have an issue with the odd transgression. The big problem is that over recent years, drivers have managed to alter the rules by saying that it's hard to stay within the lines on a certain corner or two. This is blatantly wrong. What the drivers really mean is that they can flow from one corner to another if a specific corner can be driving with a wider line. Well, I'm sorry, but a white line is a white line. Slow down and stay within it. Every corner at every circuit should be respected and laps times removed for crossing them. Of course, the odd crossing on a line in a race doesn't matter, but repetitive ones do.
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Siao7
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Siao7 »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 6:09 pm
WHoff78 wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 5:58 pm
Sorry have to completely disagree with you both on this one. I, and accept that I may be in the minority on this board. For me if they overly-regulate track limits, not only would it be a massive waste of resource and time to manage, but they would almost certainly get it wrong at a high frequency if they try and monitor every corner. Plus it's is just far to draconian to penalize the drivers at points on the circuit where there mistake is sufficient penalty enough. It's not good use of their time in my eyes. I'm happy for them to be stricter where drivers constantly push the boundaries and can find time by going off the track though. I think they are getting close to a reasonable compromise but they'll be teething issues as they get there.
To be fair, I think most on here don't have an issue with the odd transgression. The big problem is that over recent years, drivers have managed to alter the rules by saying that it's hard to stay within the lines on a certain corner or two. This is blatantly wrong. What the drivers really mean is that they can flow from one corner to another if a specific corner can be driving with a wider line. Well, I'm sorry, but a white line is a white line. Slow down and stay within it. Every corner at every circuit should be respected and laps times removed for crossing them. Of course, the odd crossing on a line in a race doesn't matter, but repetitive ones do.
Yes, fully agree. Plus WHoff78 talks about a mistake being a sufficient penalty by itself. But we are not talking about mistakes here really, rather repeat offenses that they ending up pretty much altering the track limits.

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EPROM
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by EPROM »

Yes, are there track limits or not? In the case of avoiding contact racing conditions, that's one thing. Violating the limit repeatedly and not getting penalized for it just encourages everyone to violate the limit. In a sport where the tiniest infection in a mechanical matter (e.g., engine) is sacrosanct, when track limits are only sometimes enforced seems very, very weak.

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