2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

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TheGiantHogweed
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

UnlikeUday wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:27 pm
Perez is the driver of the day.
I can understand the reasons why recovery drives seems to urge people to vote sometimes - especially ones that don't fully understand the sport, but other than Perez doing a solid long stint, Verstappen and Hamilton were clearly far better, and even Bottas did a better job overall despite losing 2 positions. A number of other drivers were better than Perez too, so not sure how he can be one today.

Paolo_Lasardi
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

Flash2k11 wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:30 pm
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:28 pm
UnlikeUday wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:24 pm
Flash2k11 wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:01 pm
UnlikeUday wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 3:59 pm
Checo had consistent pace on mediums when compared to softs. His RB car wasn't able to fire up softs or keep them in the right temp for continuous laps. Quite a strange thing as he was quicker & consistent on mediums.
Not really strange, Perez is legendarily soft on his tyres as demonstrated in this very race.
What I meant is when on mediums, he was lapping as fast as the top 3, even when the tyres were quite old. When he came on softs, he was slower. Somehow, RB as a car didn't like the tarmac of this track when compared to Merc. Am sure Barcelona will be closer, if not better for RB.
Red Bull was the slightly better package this weekend but Verstappen made too many (small) mistakes yesterday and today. Yet, Perez was miles behind him.
Wouldn't say that, i'd have Mercedes in front of Red Bull here, but not to the point where the drivers couldn't make the difference.
With Verstappen on pole (and that was definitely possible), the race would have unfolded in a different way. Same if Verstappen would not have gifted his place to Hamilton when he should have overtaken Bottas for the lead.

But anyway, my point here was that Verstappen did not drive a good weekend and still Perez was nowhere to take advantage of this.

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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:36 pm
UnlikeUday wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:27 pm
Perez is the driver of the day.
I can understand the reasons why recovery drives seems to urge people to vote sometimes - especially ones that don't fully understand the sport, but other than Perez doing a solid long stint, Verstappen and Hamilton were clearly far better, and even Bottas did a better job overall despite losing 2 positions. A number of other drivers were better than Perez too, so not sure how he can be one today.
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mikeyg123
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:36 pm
UnlikeUday wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:27 pm
Perez is the driver of the day.
I can understand the reasons why recovery drives seems to urge people to vote sometimes - especially ones that don't fully understand the sport, but other than Perez doing a solid long stint, Verstappen and Hamilton were clearly far better, and even Bottas did a better job overall despite losing 2 positions. A number of other drivers were better than Perez too, so not sure how he can be one today.
TBH I think Perez did as good a job as Verstappen and Bottas. He matched them for pace in the only section of the race where we could compare them. A shame that Norris passed him off track or he would have been up their with them.

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Flash2k11
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Flash2k11 »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:39 pm
Flash2k11 wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:30 pm
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:28 pm
UnlikeUday wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:24 pm
Flash2k11 wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:01 pm


Not really strange, Perez is legendarily soft on his tyres as demonstrated in this very race.
What I meant is when on mediums, he was lapping as fast as the top 3, even when the tyres were quite old. When he came on softs, he was slower. Somehow, RB as a car didn't like the tarmac of this track when compared to Merc. Am sure Barcelona will be closer, if not better for RB.
Red Bull was the slightly better package this weekend but Verstappen made too many (small) mistakes yesterday and today. Yet, Perez was miles behind him.
Wouldn't say that, i'd have Mercedes in front of Red Bull here, but not to the point where the drivers couldn't make the difference.
With Verstappen on pole (and that was definitely possible), the race would have unfolded in a different way. Same if Verstappen would not have gifted his place to Hamilton when he should have overtaken Bottas for the lead.

But anyway, my point here was that Verstappen did not drive a good weekend and still Perez was nowhere to take advantage of this.
I think Lewis gets Verstappen eventually even if he gets pole, Hamilton looked a few tenths faster on both tyres, lived in Bottas' dirty air for a decent amount of laps and still made the pass and still made the lap requirement for pitting.

Perez got absolutely hung out to dry on strategy, the first few laps are certainly all on him, but leaving him out that long was plain stupid, pitting that late after being that slow was always going to allow Bottas to have the gap to do the same (tinfoil time: it was done like that to make sure Max had the gap to do the same also).
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Good_Year »

Was I the only one hoping Hamilton bagged fastest lap on the last lap on hards?

Just to underline the ridiculousness of the situation.


Maybe there should be a 75% race distance rule for fastest lap.

That is to say it whomever holds fastest at the 75% mark wins the point.
But then I suppose thay does guarantee a procession to the finish.
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Flash2k11 »

Im not entirely averse to the FL point, and im also not entirely averse to what went on today, because eventually a team is going to reap what they sow.

Imagine Max had a sticky wheel today and it cost him second, that in turn costs him the championship by 2 points when he's been told to pit for a chance at a single point.
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Alienturnedhuman
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

I think the point for fastest lap is a great addition and works well as it stops the coasting to the end. The fact that fastest laps are the one 'mosts' record that Hamilton doesn't hold shows you that when there was no incentive to go for it, the drivers wouldn't bother as after all a win is worth 25 points and bragging rights don't help you win championships.

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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 5:56 pm
I think the point for fastest lap is a great addition and works well as it stops the coasting to the end. The fact that fastest laps are the one 'mosts' record that Hamilton doesn't hold shows you that when there was no incentive to go for it, the drivers wouldn't bother as after all a win is worth 25 points and bragging rights don't help you win championships.
The reason there was never an incentive to go for it is because there was no point It doesn't make it a special record because fastest lap didn't mean a jot if you didn't win.

Did you seriously feel the need to edge towards the front of your chair when Bottas and Max pitted near the end, due to the excitement of seeing a car lap a tiny fraction of a second faster than they had earlier in the race? I know I didn't.
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

It's worrying to see that Max complaied about the track being slippery and wishing they don't go back there and then commenting that Spain is a great track.

This is the divide between driver and fan where drivers want everything perfect and we want some action and cars moving around. Indycar shows me what's wrong with the way F1 cars normally handle.
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 6:00 pm
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 5:56 pm
I think the point for fastest lap is a great addition and works well as it stops the coasting to the end. The fact that fastest laps are the one 'mosts' record that Hamilton doesn't hold shows you that when there was no incentive to go for it, the drivers wouldn't bother as after all a win is worth 25 points and bragging rights don't help you win championships.
The reason there was never an incentive to go for it is because there was no point It doesn't make it a special record because fastest lap didn't mean a jot if you didn't win.

Did you seriously feel the need to edge towards the front of your chair when Bottas and Max pitted near the end, due to the excitement of seeing a car lap a tiny fraction of a second faster than they had earlier in the race? I know I didn't.
I thought this was a little comical. Perez pitting, then Bottas pitting because he now could, and then Max pitting because he now could. But I don't think this was a good example of how it benefits F1. I'm thinking of races like Britain and France 2019 where Hamilton went all out on end of life tyres.

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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by BMWSauber84 »

Invade wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:35 pm
UnlikeUday wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:27 pm
Perez is the driver of the day.
How on Earth...
The rumour is that Mazepin won the vote as a joke because of some silly internet campaign to make it happen, but they have clearly disregarded that. No idea how much truth there is to that.
Last edited by BMWSauber84 on Sun May 02, 2021 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TheGiantHogweed
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

Is anyone puzzled by the lack of penalty for Kimi? Or are they again factoring the outcome of it punishing the right driver then not going any further? what would have been the case it he lost a tiny bit of front wing and continued and gave his team mate a puncture?

I am aware Kimi had a problem and from what has now been said he was looking at his steering wheel to try and sort something out. But the decision to do it where he did was dumb and dangerous. Why didn't he go to the side of the track where he could lift off slightly so he could focus on what he was doing a bit better. This reminds me a bit of Verstappen in Belgium one year. He's got a problem, and tries to work out what it is but seems to not be paying enough attention around him. verstappen's issue was slightly different as he tried to tell if the steering was broken, but he did this when speeding up and then crashed. The reason why i compared it was because Kimi was checking to see what was wrong while still racing, which was not smart.

Colliding with a driver going in a straight line not even close to the braking zone should get a penalty IMO.

Saying that, Grosjean maybe should have, but the seriousness of the situation sort of excluded any thought about that.

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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by BMWSauber84 »

That one had excitement of course but felt a bit more like an early 2020 race in that Mercedes looked that bit faster.Red Bull seemed to have some very surface specific difficulties though but they weren't a million miles off the pace. The fastest lap shenanigans were a bit undignified really on this occasion. Hamilton's move on Bottas was excellent as was Max's earlier one on Lewis.

Norris was decent again, and Ricciardo put in a decent salvage operation. Alonso looked racy and Giovinazzi quietly had a strong race. Mick Schumacher getting an on track overtake cemented a weekend where he showed real improvement while Mazepin just didn't look to have anything like Formula 1 level speed. Was there some kind of issue?

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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1_Ernie »

Flash2k11 wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:47 pm
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:39 pm
Flash2k11 wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:30 pm
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:28 pm
UnlikeUday wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:24 pm


What I meant is when on mediums, he was lapping as fast as the top 3, even when the tyres were quite old. When he came on softs, he was slower. Somehow, RB as a car didn't like the tarmac of this track when compared to Merc. Am sure Barcelona will be closer, if not better for RB.
Red Bull was the slightly better package this weekend but Verstappen made too many (small) mistakes yesterday and today. Yet, Perez was miles behind him.
Wouldn't say that, i'd have Mercedes in front of Red Bull here, but not to the point where the drivers couldn't make the difference.
With Verstappen on pole (and that was definitely possible), the race would have unfolded in a different way. Same if Verstappen would not have gifted his place to Hamilton when he should have overtaken Bottas for the lead.

But anyway, my point here was that Verstappen did not drive a good weekend and still Perez was nowhere to take advantage of this.
I think Lewis gets Verstappen eventually even if he gets pole, Hamilton looked a few tenths faster on both tyres, lived in Bottas' dirty air for a decent amount of laps and still made the pass and still made the lap requirement for pitting.

Perez got absolutely hung out to dry on strategy, the first few laps are certainly all on him, but leaving him out that long was plain stupid, pitting that late after being that slow was always going to allow Bottas to have the gap to do the same (tinfoil time: it was done like that to make sure Max had the gap to do the same also).
Not taking anything away from Hamilton's passes but they did require mistakes by both defending drivers. You need alot more than a few tenths to sit in the dirty air for continuous laps and try an overtake. Both Hamilton and Verstapon had an obvious pace advantage over Bottas.

We have now found out Redbull set the car up to get pole, Verstappen was saying he dont want to talk about could have, should have, would have but of course he dont as his mistake failed to get Redbull pole they wanted.
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mikeyg123
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 8:57 pm
Is anyone puzzled by the lack of penalty for Kimi? Or are they again factoring the outcome of it punishing the right driver then not going any further? what would have been the case it he lost a tiny bit of front wing and continued and gave his team mate a puncture?

I am aware Kimi had a problem and from what has now been said he was looking at his steering wheel to try and sort something out. But the decision to do it where he did was dumb and dangerous. Why didn't he go to the side of the track where he could lift off slightly so he could focus on what he was doing a bit better. This reminds me a bit of Verstappen in Belgium one year. He's got a problem, and tries to work out what it is but seems to not be paying enough attention around him. verstappen's issue was slightly different as he tried to tell if the steering was broken, but he did this when speeding up and then crashed. The reason why i compared it was because Kimi was checking to see what was wrong while still racing, which was not smart.

Colliding with a driver going in a straight line not even close to the braking zone should get a penalty IMO.

Saying that, Grosjean maybe should have, but the seriousness of the situation sort of excluded any thought about that.
No driver on the grid is lifting off in that situation. This is F1, the pinnacle of motorsport. You don't lift off. You solve the problem and don't crash.

This is the same Kimi who plunged flat out into a cloud of smoke at the top of Eau Rouge not wanting to abandon his quali lap. He isn't going to lift off to sort out some settings on his steering wheel.

As for punishment... What are they going to do? He's already retired.

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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 9:53 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 8:57 pm
Is anyone puzzled by the lack of penalty for Kimi? Or are they again factoring the outcome of it punishing the right driver then not going any further? what would have been the case it he lost a tiny bit of front wing and continued and gave his team mate a puncture?

I am aware Kimi had a problem and from what has now been said he was looking at his steering wheel to try and sort something out. But the decision to do it where he did was dumb and dangerous. Why didn't he go to the side of the track where he could lift off slightly so he could focus on what he was doing a bit better. This reminds me a bit of Verstappen in Belgium one year. He's got a problem, and tries to work out what it is but seems to not be paying enough attention around him. verstappen's issue was slightly different as he tried to tell if the steering was broken, but he did this when speeding up and then crashed. The reason why i compared it was because Kimi was checking to see what was wrong while still racing, which was not smart.

Colliding with a driver going in a straight line not even close to the braking zone should get a penalty IMO.

Saying that, Grosjean maybe should have, but the seriousness of the situation sort of excluded any thought about that.
No driver on the grid is lifting off in that situation. This is F1, the pinnacle of motorsport. You don't lift off. You solve the problem and don't crash.

This is the same Kimi who plunged flat out into a cloud of smoke at the top of Eau Rouge not wanting to abandon his quali lap. He isn't going to lift off to sort out some settings on his steering wheel.

As for punishment... What are they going to do? He's already retired.
well, penalty points or a small grid drop for the next race? Are you saying it actually is based on the fact that he'd suffered that they took no action? a bit like saying any driver can get away with something careless that could cause big problems for other drivers so long as they just mess their own results up. I still would have thought there would be some penalty. for the next race or at least 2 penalty points as it was dangerous what he did. The outcome was very lucky.

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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:36 pm
UnlikeUday wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:27 pm
Perez is the driver of the day.
I can understand the reasons why recovery drives seems to urge people to vote sometimes - especially ones that don't fully understand the sport, but other than Perez doing a solid long stint, Verstappen and Hamilton were clearly far better, and even Bottas did a better job overall despite losing 2 positions. A number of other drivers were better than Perez too, so not sure how he can be one today.
All it takes is a bunch of Mexicans to vote for him, Haryanto use to get DoTD for the same reason with a Nationalistic vote, it's a joke, it makes me wonder if there is a financial element to it that makes it worth while for Liberty Media because it's totally bogus.
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

Flash2k11 wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 5:49 pm
Im not entirely averse to the FL point, and im also not entirely averse to what went on today, because eventually a team is going to reap what they sow.

Imagine Max had a sticky wheel today and it cost him second, that in turn costs him the championship by 2 points when he's been told to pit for a chance at a single point.
It already happened at Silverstone last year, if Max had not pitted for fastest lap he would have won the race against Hamilton's 3 wheeled Mercedes.
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 6:54 pm
It's worrying to see that Max complaied about the track being slippery and wishing they don't go back there and then commenting that Spain is a great track.

This is the divide between driver and fan where drivers want everything perfect and we want some action and cars moving around. Indycar shows me what's wrong with the way F1 cars normally handle.
Max thinks that a track were you can't overtake on is a better track or more likely it's a track which he believes will suit his car better.

I guess at least at the next 2 tracks coming up we will hear no DRS complaining, Barcelona and Monaco are tracks were we are going to see close to zero overtaking, how thrilling.
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mikeyg123
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 10:25 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 9:53 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 8:57 pm
Is anyone puzzled by the lack of penalty for Kimi? Or are they again factoring the outcome of it punishing the right driver then not going any further? what would have been the case it he lost a tiny bit of front wing and continued and gave his team mate a puncture?

I am aware Kimi had a problem and from what has now been said he was looking at his steering wheel to try and sort something out. But the decision to do it where he did was dumb and dangerous. Why didn't he go to the side of the track where he could lift off slightly so he could focus on what he was doing a bit better. This reminds me a bit of Verstappen in Belgium one year. He's got a problem, and tries to work out what it is but seems to not be paying enough attention around him. verstappen's issue was slightly different as he tried to tell if the steering was broken, but he did this when speeding up and then crashed. The reason why i compared it was because Kimi was checking to see what was wrong while still racing, which was not smart.

Colliding with a driver going in a straight line not even close to the braking zone should get a penalty IMO.

Saying that, Grosjean maybe should have, but the seriousness of the situation sort of excluded any thought about that.
No driver on the grid is lifting off in that situation. This is F1, the pinnacle of motorsport. You don't lift off. You solve the problem and don't crash.

This is the same Kimi who plunged flat out into a cloud of smoke at the top of Eau Rouge not wanting to abandon his quali lap. He isn't going to lift off to sort out some settings on his steering wheel.

As for punishment... What are they going to do? He's already retired.
well, penalty points or a small grid drop for the next race? Are you saying it actually is based on the fact that he'd suffered that they took no action? a bit like saying any driver can get away with something careless that could cause big problems for other drivers so long as they just mess their own results up. I still would have thought there would be some penalty. for the next race or at least 2 penalty points as it was dangerous what he did. The outcome was very lucky.

Yes. That's exactly what I'm saying and how the stewards usually approach these things. Drivers do things all the time that could mess other drivers race up but don't and they don't receive penalties. Do you really want to see every spin penalised?

Kimi made a mistake which caused his retirement and no damage to anyone else. Natural justice and no need for a further penalty.

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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 12:00 am
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 6:54 pm
It's worrying to see that Max complaied about the track being slippery and wishing they don't go back there and then commenting that Spain is a great track.

This is the divide between driver and fan where drivers want everything perfect and we want some action and cars moving around. Indycar shows me what's wrong with the way F1 cars normally handle.
Max thinks that a track were you can't overtake on is a better track or more likely it's a track which he believes will suit his car better.

I guess at least at the next 2 tracks coming up we will hear no DRS complaining, Barcelona and Monaco are tracks were we are going to see close to zero overtaking, how thrilling.
There is a big disconnect between fans and drivers. We want to see these guys actually have fight with the cars. For drivers though whenever something is less than perfect they seem to think it's a disaster and shouldn't be happening.

I'd have thought someone like Max would like a low grip surface as it gives someone like him more opportunity for their talent to separate them from the pack.

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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

Pit stops made:

Image
Source - Imgur
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

If anyone's interested in seeing Ted's race notebook:

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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

Every driver's pit radio after completing the race:

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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by JN23 »

UnlikeUday wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 7:04 am
If anyone's interested in seeing Ted's race notebook:

Question here: there were at least two teams cleaning tyres during Ted’s notebook? Why do they do that?

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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

UnlikeUday wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 7:02 am
Pit stops made:

Image
Source - Imgur
Well, many saying Perez and Norris had impressive stints - look at Stroll. Over half the race distance on the softest tyres available. Not that he had a good result, but I think that it showed that tyre ware just wasn't as bad as usual this race and it was probably pretty easy for both norris and perez to do what they did.

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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by yodasarmpit »

I feel that Perez was left out to dry by the team a little, he was on those mediums for 3/4 of the race., whilst Bottas was on used hards at the half way point.

I think there was an option the get Perez onto softs about 5 to 10 laps earlier than they did in an attempt hunt down Bottas but they left it way too late going for a single additional point.

Bottas wasn't really making an impression on Max, so the added pressure from behind could have forced an error - although not his best race I think 3rd was a potential if he had been on the softs a little earlier.

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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Schumacher forever#1 »

When will the 'best rookie in years' get in a good performance anyways? The guy is riddled with mistakes thus far.
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

yodasarmpit wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 8:55 am
I feel that Perez was left out to dry by the team a little, he was on those mediums for 3/4 of the race., whilst Bottas was on used hards at the half way point.

I think there was an option the get Perez onto softs about 5 to 10 laps earlier than they did in an attempt hunt down Bottas but they left it way too late going for a single additional point.

Bottas wasn't really making an impression on Max, so the added pressure from behind could have forced an error - although not his best race I think 3rd was a potential if he had been on the softs a little earlier.
Perez was struggling to get the softs upto temperature throughout most of the weekend.I feel they should've pitted him 10 laps earlier & put on hards as that tyre was performing better for some drivers at that stage of the race. He could've pushed & continued till the end to push Bottas. This way Bottas wouldn't come in to try for the fastest lap in the end as well.
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by BMWSauber84 »

Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 9:51 am
When will the 'best rookie in years' get in a good performance anyways? The guy is riddled with mistakes thus far.
It hasn't been an ideal start but it's early days. I remember some pretty similar things being said about Leclerc three races into his F1 career.

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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Fiki »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 6:58 am
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 10:25 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 9:53 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 8:57 pm
Is anyone puzzled by the lack of penalty for Kimi? Or are they again factoring the outcome of it punishing the right driver then not going any further? what would have been the case it he lost a tiny bit of front wing and continued and gave his team mate a puncture?

I am aware Kimi had a problem and from what has now been said he was looking at his steering wheel to try and sort something out. But the decision to do it where he did was dumb and dangerous. Why didn't he go to the side of the track where he could lift off slightly so he could focus on what he was doing a bit better. This reminds me a bit of Verstappen in Belgium one year. He's got a problem, and tries to work out what it is but seems to not be paying enough attention around him. verstappen's issue was slightly different as he tried to tell if the steering was broken, but he did this when speeding up and then crashed. The reason why i compared it was because Kimi was checking to see what was wrong while still racing, which was not smart.

Colliding with a driver going in a straight line not even close to the braking zone should get a penalty IMO.

Saying that, Grosjean maybe should have, but the seriousness of the situation sort of excluded any thought about that.
No driver on the grid is lifting off in that situation. This is F1, the pinnacle of motorsport. You don't lift off. You solve the problem and don't crash.

This is the same Kimi who plunged flat out into a cloud of smoke at the top of Eau Rouge not wanting to abandon his quali lap. He isn't going to lift off to sort out some settings on his steering wheel.

As for punishment... What are they going to do? He's already retired.
well, penalty points or a small grid drop for the next race? Are you saying it actually is based on the fact that he'd suffered that they took no action? a bit like saying any driver can get away with something careless that could cause big problems for other drivers so long as they just mess their own results up. I still would have thought there would be some penalty. for the next race or at least 2 penalty points as it was dangerous what he did. The outcome was very lucky.

Yes. That's exactly what I'm saying and how the stewards usually approach these things. Drivers do things all the time that could mess other drivers race up but don't and they don't receive penalties. Do you really want to see every spin penalised?

Kimi made a mistake which caused his retirement and no damage to anyone else. Natural justice and no need for a further penalty.
There may be a further consideration; Giovinazzi went to the right a bit, then came back left. I wonder whether he was defending instinctively and caught both of them out.
It's true that Kimi also went right a bit at first, but not as much as Giovinazzi. It is possible having to check the switch made him lose sight of Giovinazzi's movement, and the stewards may well have taken that into account.
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by -K- »

I do wonder if the perception that Perez was left out to dry by the team (which I do agree with) has been what won him DOTD. He clearly managed his tyres well as he usually does but I wouldn’t have called it a DOTD performance. That was Hamilton’s this weekend, although remaining third in the championship makes me wonder if it maybe should be Norris. Sky thought he had to give back a place to Perez while Channel 4 thought he was choosing his battles, I don’t know.

Red Bull would argue that Sergio would have been in a great position had there been a safety car late in the race, which has some merit in it. But it did look as if his job was to try to back Hamilton into Verstappen, trading off optimising his own race.

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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Johnson »

Invade wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:26 pm
Merc were able to make big attack when within 7 or so tenths on the main straight but the RB could not. Merc had the better race car today.

The trend continues that RB looks racier at the beginning of stints and finds the operating window faster than the Merc. When they got going, it looked like Merc were a bit quicker.
Hamilton was able to attack because he was running much less wing than both Bottas and Verstappen. He ran a different rear wing to Bottas.

https://i.imgur.com/ZHPMdZc.png

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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

-K- wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 12:23 pm
I do wonder if the perception that Perez was left out to dry by the team (which I do agree with) has been what won him DOTD. He clearly managed his tyres well as he usually does but I wouldn’t have called it a DOTD performance. That was Hamilton’s this weekend, although remaining third in the championship makes me wonder if it maybe should be Norris. Sky thought he had to give back a place to Perez while Channel 4 thought he was choosing his battles, I don’t know.

Red Bull would argue that Sergio would have been in a great position had there been a safety car late in the race, which has some merit in it. But it did look as if his job was to try to back Hamilton into Verstappen, trading off optimising his own race.
I wouldn't vote for Perez as DOTD but his pace being comparable to Bottas and Verstappen is promising. Had he not been held up by Norris he would have been in the fight with them.

I agree with Red Bull's decision to leave him out. There was really nothing to lose and everything to gain if a SC came out.

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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1Tyrant »

Johnson wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 12:25 pm
Hamilton was able to attack because he was running much less wing than both Bottas and Verstappen. He ran a different rear wing to Bottas.
Hamilton famously ran a low wing set-up in Turkey in GP2, span early and then went from last to second with incredible pace. I reckon at tracks with plentiful overtaking, he usually runs low wing if he can.
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

Johnson wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 12:25 pm
Invade wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:26 pm
Merc were able to make big attack when within 7 or so tenths on the main straight but the RB could not. Merc had the better race car today.

The trend continues that RB looks racier at the beginning of stints and finds the operating window faster than the Merc. When they got going, it looked like Merc were a bit quicker.
Hamilton was able to attack because he was running much less wing than both Bottas and Verstappen. He ran a different rear wing to Bottas.

https://i.imgur.com/ZHPMdZc.png
That's interesting I would take the view that on a track were you can overtake it's better to have a good race car rather than qualifying car, it's why I felt a little confident that Hamilton might win the race before the weekend even began given how the Mercedes has good tyre wear.
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

Constructor standings after round 3:

Image
Source - Imgur

Alpine is a good surprise in 5th. Even though RB are now 18 points behind Mercedes, Horner said this is the best start for RB since 2013. So fingers crossed.....
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1_Ernie »

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... favour-mph

Mercedes and Redbull was equal down the straight in clear air, it was actually Mercedes/Hamilton had better drive out of turn 14.
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Re: 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by tootsie323 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 12:31 pm
-K- wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 12:23 pm
I do wonder if the perception that Perez was left out to dry by the team (which I do agree with) has been what won him DOTD. He clearly managed his tyres well as he usually does but I wouldn’t have called it a DOTD performance. That was Hamilton’s this weekend, although remaining third in the championship makes me wonder if it maybe should be Norris. Sky thought he had to give back a place to Perez while Channel 4 thought he was choosing his battles, I don’t know.

Red Bull would argue that Sergio would have been in a great position had there been a safety car late in the race, which has some merit in it. But it did look as if his job was to try to back Hamilton into Verstappen, trading off optimising his own race.
I wouldn't vote for Perez as DOTD but his pace being comparable to Bottas and Verstappen is promising. Had he not been held up by Norris he would have been in the fight with them.

I agree with Red Bull's decision to leave him out. There was really nothing to lose and everything to gain if a SC came out.
I think that strategy was pretty much decided when he lost places at the beginning. He had the pace of the leaders but had lost too much ground.
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